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View Full Version : Video comparing buttkicker on pcars 1 and 2



ian2726
10-01-2018, 14:32
https://youtu.be/ai7FP8m1Xqs

There is definitely issues with the buttkicker bass in pcars 2. It's no where near as good as it was in pcars 1.

First is pcars 2 showing next to nothing and second is pcars 1 showing the buttkicker going mental. Please watch this video to see the huge difference in pcars 1 and 2 for my buttkicker extreme.
I have LFE up at 100% on pcars 2 and... Well just look at the video. They are world's apart.

UkHardcore23
10-01-2018, 14:52
https://youtu.be/ai7FP8m1Xqs

Please watch this video to see the huge difference in pcars 1 and 2 for my buttkicker extreme.
I have LFE up at 100% on pcars 2 and... Well just look at the video. They are world's apart.

Your wife must love racing whenever you give her a shot.

ian2726
10-01-2018, 15:00
Maybe on pcars 1 not 2.

inthebagbud
10-01-2018, 15:20
@ian2726 you are going to get me in to big trouble as just researched that rig of yours and oh boy that looks the dogs !;)

and I do agree with you on the butt kicker comparison :yes:

not to derail the thread but how are you coping with ffb with your v2 wheel :(

ian2726
10-01-2018, 15:28
@ian2726 you are going to get me in to big trouble as just researched that rig of yours and oh boy that looks the dogs !;)


:(

Vesaro are just down the road from me Nevil and his lads there were brilliant and helped me choose the right seat. I went to the vesaro factory and WOW the stuff they have there could bankrupt Richard Branson lol. Two of his lads dropped it off to me. Good bunch he's got.

It's a step up from my thrustmaster. I'm genuinely enjoying the whole feel of it. Subtle, but fuck me is it strong too.

UkHardcore23
10-01-2018, 15:32
Maybe on pcars 1 not 2.

I thought the video was showing pcars 2 was better as that was second on the vid?

David Slute
10-01-2018, 15:53
Ive been running a buttkicker gamer 2 for several yrs now. No 3rd party software like simvibe or anything but I find the buttkicker to be off in pc2.
Some times it works, sometimes it doesnt...when it does it really only picks up engine revs and shift changes. Somes cars cause the buttkicker to go crazy like your video other cars its none exsistant asides from gear changes.
If iam correct setting lfe to 100% will cause a lot of noise...like setting the volume or ffb to 100% which pc1 didnt have the option.
Id love to see a 3rd party app or the option to set tactile feedback from either road feedback or car.

FxUK
10-01-2018, 16:01
Ignore.. I fail to read what platform people are on, every time....

ian2726
10-01-2018, 16:18
I thought the video was showing pcars 2 was better as that was second on the vid?

No the first video is pcars 1. Pcars 2 is woefully under powered the video is with everything turned up. I never had this issue for pcars 2.
I've edited the first post to clarify.

ecstaticbrick
10-01-2018, 16:41
I said this when the game first came out. In Pcars 1, sitting with the engine idling, the force feedback would vibrate through my wheel and on track, I could feel the engine revving when accelerating. In Pcars 2, I don't feel any of that at all. Don't know what I would have done without Jack Spade's FFB file.

ian2726
10-01-2018, 18:03
I said this when the game first came out. In Pcars 1, sitting with the engine idling, the force feedback would vibrate through my wheel and on track, I could feel the engine revving when accelerating. In Pcars 2, I don't feel any of that at all. Don't know what I would have done without Jack Spade's FFB file.

This is about the bass. The buttkicker gets its feed from the bass output on my AV receiver. Because there's bass is low in game it gives little signal to that buttkicker.

ecstaticbrick
10-01-2018, 20:47
Don't you think the two might be related somehow? if not, it's extremely coincidental!

Cristi
10-01-2018, 20:52
This is about the bass. The buttkicker gets its feed from the bass output on my AV receiver. Because there's bass is low in game it gives little signal to that buttkicker.

Umm... shouldn't a buttkicker respond to suspension travel? You're using it as a glorified subwoofer.

ian2726
10-01-2018, 23:02
Umm... shouldn't a buttkicker respond to suspension travel? You're using it as a glorified subwoofer.

That's exactly how it works. Is uses the bass line.

Cristi
10-01-2018, 23:06
That's exactly how it works. Is uses the bass line.

That makes no sense to me. Well, I never used one, so I'll take your word for it.

RobPhoboS
10-01-2018, 23:29
This is about the bass. The buttkicker gets its feed from the bass output on my AV receiver. Because there's bass is low in game it gives little signal to that buttkicker.

There are other threads about the lack of bass and the low frequency option slider does nowt.
Hopefully an update on the sound will happen at some point. My new sub is doing nothing with Pc2 really at the moment.

bporion
10-01-2018, 23:34
I have not felt any difference whit my buttkicker between the two games . I have low filter cutoff on , high cutoff frequency right between 70 and 110 .

satco1066
10-01-2018, 23:52
you should use a software like simevibe, though very expensive.
It takes telemetry data to drive the buttkickers and bass shakers.
You have separate sliders for road, bumps, curbs, gearshiffter, engine etc.
pCARS trys to force sound output for car sound, not to drive such devices.

Cristi
11-01-2018, 06:47
pCARS trys to force sound output for car sound, not to drive such devices.

...which, if you ask me, sounds like a very sensible thing to do. I wouldn't want extreme, unrealistic, low frequency rumble from my subwoofer. Buttkickers should be run from the telemetry, not from the audio. I don't see any correlation between low frequency car noise and suspension travel. It anything, when the car shakes over bumps, that produces a medium frequency sound.

You can't be mad at PC2 for having realistic sound.

inthebagbud
11-01-2018, 07:18
I have not felt any difference whit my buttkicker between the two games . I have low filter cutoff on , high cutoff frequency right between 70 and 110 .

The issue seems to b elinked to consoles not PC

inthebagbud
11-01-2018, 07:24
...which, if you ask me, sounds like a very sensible thing to do. I wouldn't want extreme, unrealistic, low frequency rumble from my subwoofer. Buttkickers should be run from the telemetry, not from the audio. I don't see any correlation between low frequency car noise and suspension travel. It anything, when the car shakes over bumps, that produces a medium frequency sound.

You can't be mad at PC2 for having realistic sound.

Guys this is a console issue - sound on PC by all accounts is OK

However buttkickers are made to be run by audio, thats what they where invented for musicians and are extensivley used for film vibration all of which is sound based.

Pcasrs 1 sound provides ample buttkicker feedback without any extreme or unrealistic sound. The sound on Pcars 2 on consoles is very much "flatter" than Pcars 1 which provides very muted feedback for buttkickers

Marlborofranz
11-01-2018, 17:12
Yes it is invented for audio and movies. There you have special effects and exaggerated bass on explosions and stuff. And they are NOT invented for racing Sims. Subwoofers are a great idea to give vibration and bump effects, on top it's cheap since its technically just a modified speaker for low frequencies.

But this doesn't mean because it's driven by an audio signal, that it has to be run by an audio signal. FFB on your steering wheel is audio as well. But still your steering wheel is driven by the suspension rather than the frequencies of the in game sound.

In movies you don't have telemetry but in games we have. Such as the ffb audio signal we can feed the buttkickers directly with accurate physics based in your car rather than the sounds.

It works ok with Audio for immersion effects. But is shit for suspension bumps. I just don't understand how people compare movies with complex simulations. FFS, you have a 600 Hz physics engine and insist on driving the kickers with audio (just because this is the ONLY thing available in movies) rather than the accurate physics engine which is like 10 times better and adjustable. What the actual f*ck.

Edit: sound waves and audio frequencies actually just describing a movement along an axis within a specific time. Which makes it the perfect Signal for linear motion - the type of motion we need in simulations. You have a perfect audio source for that movement - your physics engine - to perfectly drive the butt kickers. Just because using the regular sound Signal from your speakers was the only option the inventors had in movies, it doesn't mean it's the best one on racing sims and games...

Cristi
11-01-2018, 17:15
FFS, you have a 600 Hz physics engine and insist on driving the kickers with audio (just because this is the ONLY thing available in movies) rather than the accurate physics engine which is like 10 times better and adjustable. What the actual f*ck.

My feelings exactly. I really don't see the point of running those things from the audio track. Waste of money.

Balles
11-01-2018, 17:20
My feelings exactly. I really don't see the point of running those things from the audio track. Waste of money.

That's how it works and no, worse every penny if you like sims ! Buttkicker + Motion rig + Rift = SIM DREAM.

Marlborofranz
11-01-2018, 17:30
My feelings exactly. I really don't see the point of running those things from the audio track. Waste of money.

Hehe partially agree. Not a complete waste of money, but it is the same as driving your steering wheel force feedback using the LFE channel. You might get engine rev vibrations in your wheel and feel a shock when you hit a wall. Maybe it feels nice, but it's an extreme waste of potential for sure....

Cristi
11-01-2018, 17:31
Buttkicker + Motion rig + Rift = SIM DREAM.

If you run it from the telemetry, as it's supposed to. Otherwise, there is absolutely no connection between the FFB and motion rig, and the buttkicker.

Edit: I'm going to stop now. This is pointless. In regard to the original post, i think there's nothing wrong with PC2 audio, and i certainly hope they won't muddle the sound with artificially boosted low frequencies.

Zaskarspants
11-01-2018, 17:35
I would consider butt kickers of some sort if sim vibe became available for the xbx, unlikely I expect.
I agree that you should not expect the real effect from the audio when that information is not really there.

bporion
11-01-2018, 20:06
The issue seems to b elinked to consoles not PC

I see , well he can still try to change his Buttkicker settings .

satco1066
12-01-2018, 13:01
maybe SimHub Shake It will advance in the future to be a simvibe surrogate.
Its connected with UDP ( simvibe is shared memory) , so it could be driven by consoles too.

Found here:
https://github.com/zegreatclan/AssettoCorsaTools/wiki/SimHub-Basics----Games-config-and-troubleshooting
https://github.com/zegreatclan/AssettoCorsaTools/wiki/Arduino-Shake-It

ian2726
14-01-2018, 12:16
It works ok with Audio for immersion effects. But is shit for suspension bumps. I just don't understand how people compare movies with complex simulations. FFS, you have a 600 Hz physics engine and insist on driving the kickers with audio (just because this is the ONLY thing available in movies) rather than the accurate physics engine which is like 10 times better and adjustable. What the actual f*ck..

Pcars 1 audio wasn't messed because it put in a bit more bass. Neither is dirt or AC.
I pointed out on console the buttkicker doesn't work as well as on other games. Then you chime in with your hateful post. Calm down and be nice to people you'll be surprised how much better you feel.

Balles
14-01-2018, 18:18
If you run it from the telemetry, as it's supposed to. Otherwise, there is absolutely no connection between the FFB and motion rig, and the buttkicker.

Edit: I'm going to stop now. This is pointless. In regard to the original post, i think there's nothing wrong with PC2 audio, and i certainly hope they won't muddle the sound with artificially boosted low frequencies.

Sorry mate, I didn't read well and you're absolutely right. Without telemetry it's useless.

Niall14
15-01-2018, 19:34
The lack of LFE on still wrecks me. I spent around 500 on a multiple tactile transducer setup on my rig about 3months before pCars2 was launched which im now considering moving to my home cinema setup downstairs.

I had hoped the LFE slider that came in the last patch would help but it literally does nothing, on Xbox X anyway, but it seems LFE users are a small percentage of pcars2 players so it looks like nothings changing anytime soon.

Don't get all this talk about LFE only being for suspension feel and motion rigs either, utter nonsense. Dont knock it until you try it.

satco1066
15-01-2018, 20:35
as you say, a multiple tactile is great.
With simvibe i can control 4 points of my chassis and i can can feel if the curbs are left or right , pump in the front or back, engine on all 4, gearshifter klick also. Etc.
W/o motion rig.
I startet with one LFE, just as you, just to feel somthing.
But its not comparable to that feedback you get, if multiple tactiles a routed by telemetry.

So hopefully for you and all console guys, SimXperience and other companies will jump on the train and develop a UDP driven controller.

John Hargreaves
17-01-2018, 10:13
This thread has inspired me to dip my toes in the water. Ordered a cheapo amp and bass shaker from Amazon. I'll try hooking it up to the subwoofer channel and see what happens.

Zaskarspants
17-01-2018, 10:33
This thread has inspired me to dip my toes in the water. Ordered a cheapo amp and bass shaker from Amazon. I'll try hooking it up to the subwoofer channel and see what happens.

I will be watching, ta.

inthebagbud
17-01-2018, 12:23
This thread has inspired me to dip my toes in the water. Ordered a cheapo amp and bass shaker from Amazon. I'll try hooking it up to the subwoofer channel and see what happens.

You wont regret it - I just plugged in a buttkicker on xboxonex and its great only downside is you will want more and more...........PC , simbvive, 4 bass shakers , diretc drive - oh no !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ian2726
17-01-2018, 13:38
This thread has inspired me to dip my toes in the water. Ordered a cheapo amp and bass shaker from Amazon. I'll try hooking it up to the subwoofer channel and see what happens.

Try it pcars 1 then 2. It's a night and day difference between the two.

John Hargreaves
17-01-2018, 15:20
That sounds intriguing, I shall do just that.