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ramm21
16-01-2018, 19:57
I only race in public lobbies, although I joined a league a few weeks ago. Public lobbies are essentially 6-8 lap races, most of them have near identical quali and race conditions...

I like to switch up the cars I use almost from race to race, and I don't bother with setups, I just use the stable preset. I head out to quali with 10-15 liters, and adjust the fuel level to match race length between quali and race. That's it...

What I've noticed lately though, is I will quali in 4th place, for example, and I'm off pole by a second or so. However, once the race starts, I'm usually among the leaders, fighting for a podium every time. After the race, I tend to have the fastest lap or really close to it (unless theres 1700 or 1800 ranked racers that just blow me away by seconds both in quali or race). Either way, I always finish ahead of where I qualify.

My times aren't really different since quali and race have similar conditions, and I only have one setup to race with. But everyone else seems to slow their laptimes down considerably once the race starts.

How many of you have a different quali and race setups? What is the major difference between the two? If you only use one setup like me, do you go batshit crazy in quali trying to turn a fast lap and slow down for consistency during the race or what?

I was with a GT3 group last night for a few races, one dude was 2 seconds faster than everyone else and ran away with it. During quali I was anywhere between 6th and 2nd, and the other 4 guys in that group were qualifying within .2 secs or so of me. Once the race started, I was always in 2nd place within a few laps, putting a second between me and the pack behind me per lap (as the alien guy was doing the same to all of us haha).

AbeWoz
16-01-2018, 20:18
typically a quali setup will be a bit more on the loose side. a loose car is a fast car, but not ideal for long stints as it can be unpredictable.

I generally run the same setup for quali and race and adjust fuel, but the times I have run quali-specific tunes i typically close the brake ducts and radiator, as well as run less aero and less fuel. And maybe a tad bit more tire pressure to get some heat in them a bit quicker.

g33k hack3rs
16-01-2018, 20:35
Usually run race level fuel and settings for quali in public lobby. I might try to do something a bit different for league racing but usually don't have that much time to optimize things in a public lobby. Just load stable preset and then adjust fuel to race length and get going. If race if very long I might opt for 5 to 6 laps of fuel so I have warm tires for final few quali laps but that is about it.

On tracks that I see I'm way off the pace with this approach I might adjust brake ducts, radiator, aero, gearing to suit track better. Typically this happens on longer tracks like Road America, Spa, etc.

Yeah, that means I qualify a few places off pole but I'm better prepared for race and usually fight for podium.

beatrunner
16-01-2018, 20:46
I was with a GT3 group last night for a few races, one dude was 2 seconds faster than everyone else and ran away with it. During quali I was anywhere between 6th and 2nd, and the other 4 guys in that group were qualifying within .2 secs or so of me. Once the race started, I was always in 2nd place within a few laps, putting a second between me and the pack behind me per lap (as the alien guy was doing the same to all of us haha).

i'm probably one of those gt3 aliens you are here speaking of (B-Runner) and i reveal some of the secrets:

- i too have only one setup, and this setup will be adjusted so that i qualy with exactly the amount of fuel i'll need for the race (i mean exactly, not the "onboard calculating thing"; therefore i'm doing my own statistics)
- setup is so much optimised for speed rather then duration that im risking motordamage due to low cooling
- i calculate damage into my "strategies" to really have some advantage ober everybody only using standard setup because of low low radiator setting
- this strategy (using race setup for qualy) gives me the advantage of feeling how my car will behave at racestart / once heated up

and OP is soo right about a thing: people often are waay slower in race then in qualy. and this all comes down to tirepressures, setups and so on...i often see people settig incredibly fast first lap while i has to do atleast 3-4 laps until pressures are up where they belong. and this guys are often sitting in pit and may be thinking "hm..that will be an easy one". then race starts, tires are overinflated (of them) and im just that much faster off the line....and never ever see them again.

my "as low cooling as possible strategy" is ofcourse nothing new. and as soon as top drivers arrive, we can have some really good fights way ahead of the guys running with much slower cars (even if the same) due to only using the "safe default setups".

but this are things any sim racer has to decide for himself: stay safe and stable and within average racers pace or do i try to push everything to the limits (not only the setup choices of course)...

ramm21
16-01-2018, 21:37
Thanks for the input.. it seems like I need to start paying more attention to brake and radiator openings.

I know there's lots of variables like length of straights, ambient temps, etc... but do you guys have a number to lower the openings to? I think they are at 75% at least for GT3s at default. How low is a good starting point for an average 8 lapper?

Now that I think about it those are probably the main reasons i'm so slow @Monza (add downforce to that list). I can jump on people on corner exit, but the fast guys start walking away from me even if im drafting behind them on straights

g33k hack3rs
17-01-2018, 03:04
Base setups are a good enough starting point for shorter and slower tracks but the long fast tracks will prove difficult.

That's why I recommend you start doing quali with the setup you want to use during the race. You will get notices from the engineer (or crew chief app) for engine running too hot or other things that start to become problematic when you change from default. Usually the settings that won't cause damage is dependent on the type of car but play around in free practice to get an idea for the cars you're using. Normally GT3 can be low 10 to 15 for brakes and 25 to 30 for radiator if it isn't too many laps. Driving style will influence this but it's good to get a feel for where you can start without being concerned and then go from there.

Not sure I will go with the suggestion of very low radiator that causes damage. Any slight bump on the front will reduce radiator even more and can completely destroy the engine if not cautious. Leave some margin for error if you go that precise. Don't think the tenth of two is worth the risk unless you really need that.

zedeeyen
17-01-2018, 07:20
Could just be down to consistency, mind. You don't have any way to know how good the qualy laps of the other drivers were, relative to their race pace.

I use the base set up everywhere and in both qualy and races, but there are tracks where I can bang out lap after lap within a couple of tenths but can't go faster in qualy, even though I'm a second down on the pole sitter. If I qualify in 3rd or 4rth on one those I'm generally on the front foot in the race and know I'm in with a chance.

On the other hand there are tracks where I can hit fast times but only really inconsistently, so I could put myself on the front row but then end up defending right from the start because most of my laps are much slower than my qualy.

I also often jump into qualy with only enough time left for one flying lap (or there's traffic, or whatever), and I end up with significantly faster times in the race than I did in qualy.

gp2112
17-01-2018, 19:45
I usually qualify with a set up that does not concentrate on speed but consistency. I can go into a lobby where a driver will be faster than me by good margin but cannot keep up that pace in a race. Loose may be fast but I can push my car further, because I have more to take at that point, and run you into an off or into the wall because I have pushed your unstable car further than was intended. Then my car is stable enough to get around you as you bounce off the wall without worrying that my sudden move with upset the balance of my car.

Point: Aside from the first race in a Formula X car, I have yet to lose another one. Very unstable car. I make it stable and qualify on a full tank...Usually 1-2 seconds faster than the second place qualifier. Then, while everyone else is trying to get their car under them at the start of the race, I take off and put too much distance between you and me, distance that gets greater as your set-up cannot keep up a fast pace for very long. I rarely use PTP but I can corner 10mph faster than you can.

Raklodder
13-03-2018, 08:20
I like to remove as much drag as possible for qualifying (downforce, break ducts, engine opening, etc) on tracks like Le Mans and Monza.

EV3RY
13-03-2018, 08:31
I don't even have different track set ups!

Zaskarspants
13-03-2018, 10:58
I am still on default loose for both. I do lower the fuel load as needed.

I just recently started fiddling a bit with set ups playing with the rs200 on tt at Knockhill and i managed to get 14th ( last time I looked) with set up changes. Lots to learn.

Smoked_Cheddar
13-03-2018, 13:31
In my league, we use the TT for qualifying. But my setup is different than my race setup, usually for radiator and other heat based settings since I only need a few laps. If it were qualifying, I would adjust the fuel load, since it does make a difference.

I'm always trying to learn so I will keep making changes as needed, if I can find an edge in qualifying that I can use in the race, I will, if not, I won't.

I also try to run know how the car reacts later in the run too because worn tires is a big thing.

Keena
13-03-2018, 17:23
I just tried a test around hockenheim in the Porsche gt4 with radiator closed and brake ducts closed and it didn't seem to make any difference to my pace. Aside from fuel, what else can you change for a qualifying setup?

cpcdem
13-03-2018, 17:48
I just tried a test around hockenheim in the Porsche gt4 with radiator closed and brake ducts closed and it didn't seem to make any difference to my pace. Aside from fuel, what else can you change for a qualifying setup?

It's not like it it will give you seconds of pace! A completely closed radiator might give around half a second per lap, which with a small mistake somewhere it can completely evaporate, so you need to compare between flawless laps with it closed and open. You can also check the top speed at the straight before the hairpin, with the GT4 this must be 2-3km/h more with radiator closed.

Keena
13-03-2018, 17:59
It's not like it it will give you seconds of pace! A completely closed radiator might give around half a second per lap, which with a small mistake somewhere it can completely evaporate, so you need to compare between flawless laps with it closed and open. You can also check the top speed at the straight before the hairpin, with the GT4 this must be 2-3km/h more with radiator closed.

Yes I wondered if that might be the case- I see people sometimes with a second a lap increase in qualifying and I marvel at their car setup knowledge. Any pointers gratefully received :)

cpcdem
13-03-2018, 18:35
Yes I wondered if that might be the case- I see people sometimes with a second a lap increase in qualifying and I marvel at their car setup knowledge. Any pointers gratefully received :)

A second a lap is no that much. In qualifying you can have closed radiators, lower downforce (although this is not always faster!), if soft tires are faster you can use them without worrying if they will overheat after 3 laps, you can adjust the pressures so that they are good for a couple laps, without worrying if they will skyrocket later.

Generally you can get a lot more risk setup wise, but also driving wise, since you do not really mind if you overshoot a corner and wreck your car at the barriers, you can usually hit "return to pits" and retry :). And additionally usually the track gets better as time goes by, so a late lap can be much faster than one don in the first minutes.

All the above combined can definitely give more that one second per lap...and some people may have found additional tricks, but even just the above I think are more than enough.