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Mexel75
18-01-2018, 13:35
I'm wondering how far you should rev up, before shifting gear up? Do you rev up all the way until revcounter just turns red, or do you shift a bit earlier? I seem constantly to shift in the 6500-7000 range, but starting to wonder if this is the optimum? If we assume default gear ratios is used. Of course, if you have a "large gear ratio gap" between two gears, you should really make sure you rev up properly.

Zaskarspants
18-01-2018, 13:41
It really depends on the car, some need to be thrashed for maximum power as the engine is very peaky, the group b renault being a good example, others are more 'torquey' and in a lower state of tune so revving out can be slower or make little difference, the gt4 ginetta is a good example of a less revvy car.

Also race strategies will influence rev limits with petrol saving and engine / tyre preservation possible driver pressures.

Bealdor
18-01-2018, 13:42
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55865-Calculate-the-optimal-shift-points&p=1402084&viewfull=1#post1402084

Edit: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55865-Calculate-the-optimal-shift-points&p=1402976&viewfull=1#post1402976

bazzalaar
18-01-2018, 15:49
When in game, cycle through the HUD. Look in the bottom right hand corner and look at the power output. You'll see the turbo cars tend to lose a bit of power before the redline. Whereas the normally aspirated cars will pretty much produce full power at top revs.

iggy
18-01-2018, 17:39
After a bit of time with any particular car, you can naturally get a sense of when it starts to decline in acceleration, you can also hear the engine note change... I'm not saying I always intuitively know when to shift, but I do think if you drive a car enough, you should get a pretty good sense of when to shift just by paying attention... For me, when to downshift is a bit more tricky than it is knowing when to upshift.

Mahjik
18-01-2018, 17:50
https://youtu.be/zZBqb0ZJSwU

rich1e I
18-01-2018, 17:50
Normally ideal shift point is max. horsepower. You need to look at the bottom right in the telemetry screen. Now the problem is, how accurate are telemetry data? I'm not sure. During the Tommy Milner event I noticed that it was faster to redline and even further rather than shifting at max hp.

mcooley9891
19-01-2018, 14:35
I have a serious problem my game is broken . I play on ps4 on a controller when I race online or do private testing the automatic transmission goes nuts it shifts from 1st to 7th then it spins my car out and to add more salt in the wound I can't refuel my car no matter witch car I use its still the same problem need help! My only other course of action is to get rid of the game TOTALLY NOT HAVING A GOOD TIME :/

Zaskarspants
19-01-2018, 14:43
I have a serious problem my game is broken . I play on ps4 on a controller when I race online or do private testing the automatic transmission goes nuts it shifts from 1st to 7th then it spins my car out and to add more salt in the wound I can't refuel my car no matter witch car I use its still the same problem need help! My only other course of action is to get rid of the game TOTALLY NOT HAVING A GOOD TIME :/

I think you need to start a new thread to get advice, it is unhelpful to others who might help you out to bury it here, it might get missed.

Also, drop the caps shouting and the emoting and try to recall as much detail as possible, ideally with a video of the issue occurring with the telemetry screen on. That appears to be pretty much what mods/devs usually request and often people spot a fix.

Mad Al
19-01-2018, 14:53
Normally ideal shifting point is max. horsepower. You need to look at the bottom right in the telemetry screen. Now the problem is, how accurate are telemetry data? I'm not sure. During the Tommy Milner event I noticed that it was faster to redline and even further rather than shifting at max hp.

Four Stroke Performance Tuning by A. Graham Bell.. it has a really nice section on gearboxes including calculating the best ratios and shift points

poirqc
19-01-2018, 15:16
With not scientific data to back me up, i find that the smaller the engine, the higher you need to rev it. Some times, i even need to wait for the cutoff kick in to shift. Also, the audio cue in pCars 2 is good. When your ear the motor "float", shift.

rich1e I
19-01-2018, 15:23
With not scientific data to back me up, i find that the smaller the engine, the higher you need to rev it. Some times, i even need to wait for the cutoff kick in to shift. Also, the audio cue in pCars 2 is good. When your ear the motor "float", shift.

Ok but the C7.R GTE does by no means have a small engine but still it was faster shifting right before the rev limiter. According to telemetry data I was shifting when hp had already decreased considerably.

Rodders
19-01-2018, 15:35
Note that as power starts to drop, this is often not the optimal time to change gear as while the power might be dropping as the revs rise more, when you change up the gearing is longer and harder to drive - so more slightly more HP will actually produce less acceleration. You can usually hear and dare I say feel when the engine is starting to simply strain to raise the revs any more and it's time to change. Or it simply hits the limiter :)

It's worth knowing the engines that produce most power lower down the rev range though as you can then save fuel or reduce engine wear without losing out much on acceleration. Every car is slightly diff. I wouldn't get too hung up on it TBH. So long as you are not changing up way too soon or late, there will be very little difference on lap times. Bigger gains are made elsewhere.

rich1e I
19-01-2018, 16:35
Note that as power starts to drop, this is often not the optimal time to change gear as while the power might be dropping as the revs rise more, when you change up the gearing is longer and harder to drive - so more slightly more HP will actually produce less acceleration. You can usually hear and dare I say feel when the engine is starting to simply strain to raise the revs any more and it's time to change. Or it simply hits the limiter :)

It's worth knowing the engines that produce most power lower down the rev range though as you can then save fuel or reduce engine wear without losing out much on acceleration. Every car is slightly diff. I wouldn't get too hung up on it TBH. So long as you are not changing up way too soon or late, there will be very little difference on lap times. Bigger gains are made elsewhere.

This is true. In a race it doesn't really matter as long as you stay roughly in the power range. In TT it's different, every thousandth of a second counts. In theory I should've lost time revving too high but I actually was pulling away slightly from my ghost where I was shifting at max. hp.

MJP
19-01-2018, 18:48
This is true. In a race it doesn't really matter as long as you stay roughly in the power range. In TT it's different, every thousandth of a second counts. In theory I should've lost time revving too high but I actually was pulling away slightly from my ghost where I was shifting at max. hp.

Shifting at max power isn't the optimal way unless the max power is at the redline.

rich1e I
19-01-2018, 19:05
Shifting at max power isn't the optimal way unless the max power is at the redline.

Moderator Bealdor posted two links on the first page where he explains why the optimal shift point is max hp, at least in theory

MaximusN
19-01-2018, 20:53
Moderator Bealdor posted two links on the first page where he explains why the optimal shift point is max hp, at least in theory
If you take the gear ratios into account, wheel hp wise it just isn't... Not ever. First reason being the hp you end up with in the next gear is ALWAYS lower than where you come from. But even then only a wheel hp chart per gear will tell you the shiftpoint. And without knowing the gearratios you can't make any statement at all when to shift(bar shifting before redline).

SIR_Driftalot
19-01-2018, 22:45
https://i.imgur.com/RnX8D9C_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

This is where a power/torque curve graph would be useful either in the car selection menu, or even better a dynamic visual representation of the power/HP numbers in the telemetry HUD.

MaximusN
19-01-2018, 23:10
https://i.imgur.com/RnX8D9C_d.jpg?maxwidth=640& shape=thumb&fidelity=medium (https://i.imgur.com/RnX8D9C_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

This is where a power/torque curve graph would be useful either in the car selection menu, or even better a dynamic visual representation of the power/HP numbers in the telemetry HUD.


If it isn't combined with the gear ratio,s it isn't half as useful as it could be. :) Or even useful at all.

MarleyMoo
20-01-2018, 06:40
If you take the gear ratios into account, wheel hp wise it just isn't... Not ever. First reason being the hp you end up with in the next gear is ALWAYS lower than where you come from. But even then only a wheel hp chart per gear will tell you the shiftpoint. And without knowing the gearratios you can't make any statement at all when to shift(bar shifting before redline).

Yup exactly. You must know the gear ratios along with either torque or power curve to calculate shift point. But no matter what, the pre- and post-shift rpm's should bracket the peak power rpm, and the pre- and post-shift power are equal, both lower than peak power.

Bealdor
20-01-2018, 10:27
Moderator Bealdor posted two links on the first page where he explains why the optimal shift point is max hp, at least in theory

No I didn't. ;)

The optimal shifting point is a bit later.
You should shift when the current HP would match the power value of the next gear.

Fight-Test
20-01-2018, 12:25
No I didn't. ;)

The optimal shifting point is a bit later.
You should shift when the current HP would match the power value of the next gear.

There it is.

rich1e I
20-01-2018, 13:56
No I didn't. ;)

The optimal shifting point is a bit later.
You should shift when the current HP would match the power value of the next gear.

Oops, it seems I didn't remember correctly. Anyway, these calculations are things real racing teams can do for their cars or maybe people who are preparing for an important event in simracing like the 24h Daytona on iRacing, but I'm not going to sit down and calculate the optimal shift point for every car I drive in the game.
I think I'll try to find out why it was faster revving up past redline in the C7.R GTE.

Zenzic
20-01-2018, 14:54
Oops, seems I didn't remember correctly. Anyway, these calculations are things real racing teams can do for their cars or maybe people who are preparing for an important event in simracing like the 24h Daytona on iRacing, but I'm not going to sit down and calculate the optimal shift point for every car I drive in the game.
I think I'll try to find out why it was faster revving up past redline in the C7.R GTE.

No calculations needed. Have telemetry view open the first few times you accelerate down the straight and keep an eye on the HP value before and after shifting. HP after shift lower than before shift? You probably shifted too early. And vice versa. It only takes a few tries to find out the optimal shift point. Then you mentally map that to either the shift lights or the engine note.

SIR_Driftalot
21-01-2018, 00:09
https://www.gtplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/gt6-transmission.jpg

True, thatís why a dynamic graph meter in the telemetry would be the perfect option as it could be relative to the gear ratios being used, or at least some sort of graph info graphic in the set up screen that changes Gran Turismo style, pic related...

MaXyM
21-01-2018, 00:30
Don't you think people request too much helpers thinking it may made them more competitive?
Assuming average driver shifts about good, what gain could he get from perfect shifting? tenth of second? Is it really so important if he miss several seconds to reference time?
IMO it completely wrong approach.
Of course I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have such feature (as to have virtual dyno or windtunel)
But face the truth: with or without this, slow one will remain slow.
So it's actually wasts of dev resources as well as unnecessary focus on such negligible thing as a way of improving ontrack performance.

And if some really wants to be pro, then with use of telemetry tool, it's possible to evaluate optimal shifting points. At least this way it wouldn't be another helper from the game comparable to driving line.

NateDawg
21-01-2018, 04:23
Don't you think people request too much helpers thinking it may made them more competitive?
Assuming average driver shifts about good, what gain could he get from perfect shifting? tenth of second? Is it really so important if he miss several seconds to reference time?
IMO it completely wrong approach.
Of course I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have such feature (as to have virtual dyno or windtunel)
But face the true: with or without this, slow one will remain slow.
So it's actually wasts of dev resources as well as unnecessary focus on such negligible thing as a way of improving ontrack performance.

And if some really wants to be pro, then with use of telemetry tool, it's possible to evaluate optimal shifting points. At least this way it wouldn't be another helper from the game comparable to driving line.

Alternatively, it's an extra layer of realism that a racing driver would see or at least be told the optimum shift points. It's also easier to 'feel' when to shift as the acceleration slows down. You can't feel this in a sim.

Jetsun
21-01-2018, 06:34
Slow one will remain slow

I hope not... :).
I can hear your whole point but can't agree with that specific.
Human brain/mind is such that training always bring about improvements. Nothing hard at first remains such with proper committed training. Some might be quicker than other to learn at first, but the potential for progress is always there, in anyone.
And if you take one gifted dude and one less lucky but with higer motivation, the later will win in the long term. So there is always hope...
In fact there even is an alien sitting in all of us, yep, not being fully convinced of that is what definitively close the door.

MaXyM
21-01-2018, 10:09
I hope not... :).

Believe me.
Of course there is always room for improvement. But looking for tenths while several seconds are missing is wrong approach. It's the same like asking for best setup just after jumping into simracing, just because of 10 secs gap to a leader on 3km track ;)

Jetsun
21-01-2018, 19:23
Totally agree!

Flamaros
21-01-2018, 19:43
Nobody upshift a little earlier the lower gears to reduce the lost of traction?

MaXyM
21-01-2018, 22:21
I do. It all depends on situation (tire wear, weather conditions etc) and driver's experience

Cristi
22-01-2018, 10:29
Didn't someone say that the rev lights in most cars are aligned with the optimum gear shift point?

Zaskarspants
22-01-2018, 10:37
Didn't someone say that the rev lights in most cars are aligned with the optimum gear shift point?

I don't recall that, it seems unlikely as the optimum shift point changes between different gears.

I am finding that I can improve some lap times by NOT dropping a gear when previously I may have. I am starting to use the h - change and clutch and dropping a few changes helps my times. I think paddle changing may encourage needless down shifts for me.

Cristi
22-01-2018, 10:46
I think I read that in one of the posts Bealdor linked. Hard to check right now, cause I'm on my phone.

MaXyM
22-01-2018, 12:16
I have experience with only a few cars from the roster, but while in some red light is quite close to max revs, for example BMW M6 GT3 has a lot of room after hitting red.
There are 2 indicators of rpm: rpm bar on LCD screen and multicolour LEDs. Those LEDs turns red while there is a lot of mentioned room indicated by LCD. From my experience, it seems that it's better (performance wise) to ignore LED indicator. But I would assume it might have some effect on engine health (cannot confirm or deny)

Zaskarspants
22-01-2018, 12:24
I think I read that in one of the posts Bealdor linked. Hard to check right now, cause I'm on my phone.

Cool, I wouldn't advise anyone to rely on my memory.

Jetsun
22-01-2018, 12:30
Didn't someone say that the rev lights in most cars are aligned with the optimum gear shift point?

"We tried to set up the shifting lights so that on cars where the power drop is significantly before the redline you should shift in the "yellow" lights to maintain maximum power output all the time. Of course this might change due to gearing changes or altitude (since higher altitude acts kind of like tighter restriction), so we couldn't get everything set up perfectly, but they should be mostly good. You should notice on quite a few cars that the yellow RPM LEDs come up very early compared to the redline." from here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55865-Calculate-the-optimal-shift-points&p=1402976&viewfull=1#post1402976) as you said.

Atak Kat
22-01-2018, 12:31
No calculations needed. Have telemetry view open the first few times you accelerate down the straight and keep an eye on the HP value before and after shifting. HP after shift lower than before shift? You probably shifted too early. And vice versa. It only takes a few tries to find out the optimal shift point. Then you mentally map that to either the shift lights or the engine note.

Never thought of that. Will have to try it out in some testing. But should it be HP? Or torque?

Cristi
22-01-2018, 12:43
"We tried to set up the shifting lights so that on cars where the power drop is significantly before the redline you should shift in the "yellow" lights to maintain maximum power output all the time. Of course this might change due to gearing changes or altitude (since higher altitude acts kind of like tighter restriction), so we couldn't get everything set up perfectly, but they should be mostly good. You should notice on quite a few cars that the yellow RPM LEDs come up very early compared to the redline." from here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55865-Calculate-the-optimal-shift-points&p=1402976&viewfull=1#post1402976) as you said.

Thanks for the legwork!

Zenzic
22-01-2018, 13:08
Never thought of that. Will have to try it out in some testing. But should it be HP? Or torque?

HP! Torque is only part of the picture: lower torque at higher RPM can still result in more horsepower.

Flamaros
22-01-2018, 17:58
Didn't someone say that the rev lights in most cars are aligned with the optimum gear shift point?

This is right but with some assumptions like there is no grip issue, and in straights. When you are in curves it depend of how much lock you have with the differential, it can be interesting to avoid coming on the upper gear with too much torque.
I found that finally on tracks that there is not so much moment when it is the ideal to shift at the rev light, I am very sensitive to the car balance during curves and I prefer to manage the torque with the gear than with the throttle when I am in the this short period were both gears can fit well enough.

Plato99
25-01-2018, 16:04
When the vinyls start to peel off the bonnet........ :)