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ccughostdk
18-01-2018, 22:01
I have had some very bad experiences the last couple of days.

The other day, admin kicked all opponents, so he could harvest all the points and get first place. Great.... guess he have a small d***.

Today... on a server... penalties was disabled which led to many of the opponents cutting corners and gaining lots of seconds and places.

Can someone explain why penalties can be disabled on public servers?

In my humble opinion it doesn“t make any sense. They should NEVER be disabled, no matter what.. public servers, tournament or whatever. The fairness has gone south.

About to give up on online racing.... Too few good servers out there.

V3nom
18-01-2018, 22:16
Well it's good to have an options. And they are probably disabled because the penalty system at the moment is a bit over the top and very unforgiving in my opinion.
In our league, since patch 3, we have only raced without penalties. But nobody cuts corners in our races and if it happens by accident that person serves his penalty on his own.
And as an example, when you pick a normal race track and put snow on it. For all means you can't race with the penalties on.

Nyreen
18-01-2018, 22:17
I haven't raced online this much in 2018, but the few races I had, they were terrible. Admin kicking you when retiring to the pits after someone crashed you, usual T1 murder on Monza, getting penalties for avoiding a car crashed on the middle on the road, then the car behind pushes me on the wall while I was slowing down to avoid the penalty.

You're right, I don't know what's happening these days, since I always had good races for the last few months ! Stay away from Monza and GT3 lobbies for now...

DECATUR PLAYA
19-01-2018, 05:05
I have had some very bad experiences the last couple of days.

The other day, admin kicked all opponents, so he could harvest all the points and get first place. Great.... guess he have a small d***.

Today... on a server... penalties was disabled which led to many of the opponents cutting corners and gaining lots of seconds and places.

Can someone explain why penalties can be disabled on public servers?

In my humble opinion it doesn“t make any sense. They should NEVER be disabled, no matter what.. public servers, tournament or whatever. The fairness has gone south.

About to give up on online racing.... Too few good servers out there.

Everybody has opinions but as a guy that runs a public room almost 7 nights a week I think you are 100% right on the penalty system. I absolutely love the new penalty system. I run my room every night with penalties on. Trust me I push the car to points where I barely have 2 wheels inside the line and I dont get penalties so I question what some guys are saying about the infraction. Keep the car between the lines and you dont magically gets penalties. Is the system punishing. Yes it is punishing. Is the system demanding. Yes it is demanding. Is the system broken. No it is not broken.

Guys dont understand what the rules have done to the racing. The current system has forced guys to drive the car more under control to stay within track limits which in turn has cleaned up a lot of corner ramming. For the guys that use it you are probably experiencing a much cleaner form of racing. The penalty is much more complex than guys give it credit for. For example if you cut or drive wide in a turn and all four wheels cross the line and you know the penalty is coming and you just slow down immediately you will get less of a penalty. If you do it good enough you can avoid the penalty altogether. Another example if you cut and immediately correct sometimes you can avoid the penalty because the game will give you credit for the correction. Most times when you put the car in a bad position a good correction requires you to let way out of the throttle or brake much harder or longer than you wanted to both corrections cause a big slowdown of the car therefore the game gives you credit for the big slowdown. Maybe im seeing things.

I highly disgree with guys on the penalty system . The penalty system may need to be slightly more forgiving but not by much.

A bud go in rooms where they use the penalty system. You will encounter a much better form of racing trust me. If its not a league race go into rooms with rules. No rules races in a public lobby with a bunch of strange new guys that you dont know. MAD MAX.

NateDawg
19-01-2018, 05:45
Everybody has opinions but as a guy that runs a public room almost 7 nights a week I think you are 100% right on the penalty system. I absolutely love the new penalty system. I run my room every night with penalties on. Trust me I push the car to points where I barely have 2 wheels inside the line and I dont get penalties so I question what some guys are saying about the infraction. Keep the car between the lines and you dont magically gets penalties. Is the system punishing. Yes it is punishing. Is the system demanding. Yes it is demanding. Is the system broken. No it is not broken.
MAX.

I agree with you in the most part, BUT, to cop a penalty for running wide on a corner when you've made a mistake and already lost time is not conducive to good racing. Especially if you get muscled out by another driver over the white line and you have to slow down and they don't. I have no issue with cutting inside, it's the cutting outside that annoys the hell out of me, because I'm slow enough already, when I make a mistake, I don't need to be penalised again. To that affect, I would say the system IS broken and as a result I prefer to drive without penalties.

Raklodder
19-01-2018, 05:58
It's only what you make it (as in: people seeming to prefer less regulated servers) but I think it will sort itself out eventually and even more so if they refine the ranking system.

Azure Flare
19-01-2018, 06:51
They're often referred to as "pubservers" because everyone gets drunk off their ass before starting the race.

DECATUR PLAYA
19-01-2018, 07:39
I agree with you in the most part, BUT, to cop a penalty for running wide on a corner when you've made a mistake and already lost time is not conducive to good racing. Especially if you get muscled out by another driver over the white line and you have to slow down and they don't. I have no issue with cutting inside, it's the cutting outside that annoys the hell out of me, because I'm slow enough already, when I make a mistake, I don't need to be penalised again. To that affect, I would say the system IS broken and as a result I prefer to drive without penalties.

The running wide part of the system is the best part of the system. The running wide part of the system is what stops the ramming. Most guys run wide because they enter the corner to hot. Entering the corner to fast is what often leads to a guy getting rammed in tight racing. Once again this is just my opinion and my take on how the system works. I could be way off but the racing in my room is the best its ever been and thats where im getting my opinion from.

Now if you get bumped off in a corner and get the penalty well that just sucks but its so hard to determine who's at fault. Sometimes what works well in that situation is knowing when to challenge and when to give and thats just up to the drivers involved. When you play the ultimate game of chicken into a turn somebody always loses.

beatrunner
19-01-2018, 08:01
the worst lobbies you can go are:

- U ranks
- No Damange / No Mechanical Failures
- Ghosted Cars on
- Penalties off
- Fuel / Tire Consumption off

Why are these the worst? Well - the not so fast drivers drive like in Arcade games with such settings. Nobody really cares about others as there's no need to be cautios because you don't get harm when hitting something. in such lobbies it's almost always impossible to defend a P1 in a clean way. if you close the innerlines and don't give room for the cheapish overtakes (not defending inner lines) my experience is that in such arcade lobbies the chance to just beeing pushed away from front are huge.

and i can't help me but believe the ability to "ghost a car" can still be exploited by the crashers and rammers. i even turn that ghosting off as i want everybody which have had contact to have a disadvantage. all this in hoping people will start to realise we aren't driving Need For Speed here.

it's a sim - and it's a shame most people abuse PC2 as a Arcaderacer. And thiss leads to threads like this in people complaining there's only bad experience in MP.

guys -race in hardcore mode with hardcore damage and become hardcore in avoiding contact and staying on track. this is the fun. i can't get the fun of racing around monza (for me one of the most hated tracks) with arcade settings and beeing able to run at fullspeed after hitting other cars or walls or what not....

it's nothing more frustrating then having a competitive pace - getting crashed from behind - only to then beeing overtaken by the crashing idiot (you spin, he not) which would suffer from major damage if settings would be somewhat real.

FlakNine
19-01-2018, 09:09
Yeah it's pretty abysmal, the first-lap carnage at Monza in my race last night was ridiculous but thankfully/miraculously I picked my way through it unscathed with some ultra-cautious driving. I find a lot of the worst offenders tend to drop out of the race after a few laps, if you can just survive that long.

But... the power is in our hands to create races ourselves! I might start creating my own races in the public servers with a reasonably high safety ranking and penalties on. Even if we don't get a full grid I'd rather race with a smaller group of (at least statistically) cleaner drivers than a full grid half populated with rammers and corner-cutters. Yes this might also exclude some new drivers that have good intentions of clean racing, but honestly I don't get much free time to play this game and it's frustrating when a race is ruined by others.

pferreirag60
19-01-2018, 11:28
Well, me too, even if I think the system is very good, I have to accept that sometimes it is a little bit "Nazi", because most of the times when you put your four wheels outside, you have made an mistake, you have loosed time, but you will be even more penalized by the system, with a slowdown after you rejoin the track. Another one that i just don“t know how it will be solved, but for me it is the most important. My 3 last races online, I has rammed out of the track, by an opponent(drives well) but with that child mentality, that have to win at every cost! So I qualified maybe 7 in the race and after 5 laps I was second, but the third guy has catching me , so after 3 laps of fight, in the last 2 corners the guy rammed my car 2 times, in the third time, I was unable to catch the car, so i finished the race in last. In the second race, it was like a copycat, now I was rammed when I was third. Only in the last race I could finish in third, but first I loosed the first position exactly the same way. So how to penalize drivers crashing against your cars rear?!

For me that is the worst offender in online races: crashing against the rear of your car, even if slight it is enough to ruin your race!

Even if sometimes it was a mistake (I have done that too) we should be punish hard, it is the only way to stop that kind of drivers.

MaXyM
19-01-2018, 11:48
some has mentioned on previous page that he is getting hit a rear while executing a slow down penalty.
I'm just curious: don you execute the penalty in safe way? How many of you change your line before slowdown? Or you just lifting up a throttle pedal while having opponent 0.2sec behind, therefore literally asking for a collision?

pferreirag60
19-01-2018, 11:57
This Ramming have nothing to do with penalty slowdown! It is ramming to catch in entering a curve.

RNVB
19-01-2018, 12:12
I have to agree and disagree somewhat with the thread title. Wednesday night I had probably the best online experience I've had on Project Cars 2. Lobby was hosted on PS4 by user Skanda Five (might be slightly wrong), at least 5 or 6 users had mic's, unfortunately I didn't. First race I entered was on Monza using only Formula Rookie cars. I could tell quite quickly it would be a decent lobby as they were talking about different setups on the car with knowledge, tire pressures being the main bit of info I learned which was really useful. Racing was close, competitive but clean. There were a couple of racing incidents, nothing seemingly deliberate. Everyone made it through the first chicane virtually unscathed! After another race on Monza with the Lotus Type 25, absolute nightmare, kept overheating. Race after, banger racing around Indy. All in Ford Escort 1600's, last car standing wins after 20 minutes, really good laugh. Obviously it wasn't clean racing as it wasn't intended to be.

If you can find the right lobbies on this game online it is golden.

V3nom
19-01-2018, 12:27
Ohh trust me mate you have to join a casual league for racing on PS4. I just don't really bother to race normal lobbies in general.
I just take part of the league races on wednesday and saturday and it's the most fun I have ever had in this game.
Every league night has been much much more fun then the regular lobbies.
I just can't bother fiddling with the bs lobby system. Either there is someone from my league to race with or I just don't bother.
I rather do carreer.

Alfisti
19-01-2018, 12:54
There's a guy on PS4, on most nights EST, names SALA, he hosts a pretty good lobby.

To me it's the same as PC1 but less rammers, i definitely feel the average driver is struggling more on PC2, I suspect the controller drivers are having a hard time and you get a lot of unintentional contact.

In regards to penalties, the big issue i have is the severe penalty of cancelling the next lap for going wide in section 3. it could be two full corners from the end of the. bathurst is the worse, the chase is tricky and you get it a bit wrong and the next lap is cancelled. Drives me crazy.

mcooley9891
19-01-2018, 14:24
Yeah it's absolute S!#* out there I get kicked out rooms just cause I have a slightly higher grade then other people this is not a fun experience and when I do get in a race you get the nuts who want to run you off the road for no reason

poirqc
19-01-2018, 14:31
Whever you get rammed. Quit pCars, fire up wreckfest, pick a controller, take the outside view and RAM the %?*% out of the cars in front of you. It's a good cooldown exercise! :D

Mahjik
19-01-2018, 15:54
A few things I noticed when racing online:


You can see what is or isn't enabled on the server before you join it. Never join a server without penalties enabled unless it's a group you know well.
GT3's are typically the most aggressive lobbies. I've had the most contact in those races. I've done many races with other cars and the drivers are respectful. GT3 cars bring out those who don't have much racecraft, but think the cars are cool. In short, you are taking your chances racing GT3 or TC with those you don't know.

balderz002
19-01-2018, 16:36
I have yet to venture into the dizzy world of project cars 2 online. But don't fear me when I do, as I will be miles behind most of you! I think if I did, it would be pre-organised events with the good folks here.

Cholton82
19-01-2018, 16:44
I must have been lucky , I have had some good races on PS4 . Dont get me wrong I have come across some real idiots but I have had more good experiences than bad . Now I have moved over onto the 1X so we will see what the Xbox lot are like online .

Balles
19-01-2018, 17:21
If I have to post every good or bad couple of days in this forum, It'd be full of good, no problem and some boring racing stories with only a bunch of bad ones.

At the oposite of OP, I had some good ones these days, some new good skilled/rated players to challenge and race with. It should be even better as the time pass.

Alfisti
19-01-2018, 18:33
I tell you what was good, PC1 when PC2 came out. There was this core group of racers most nights, was great.

FastForward352
19-01-2018, 20:34
I have yet to venture into the dizzy world of project cars 2 online. But don't fear me when I do, as I will be miles behind most of you! I think if I did, it would be pre-organised events with the good folks here.

Don't worry if you think you're not among the best drivers, all you need is a brain and a lot of fair-play to have a good time in racing, remember that all you have to do is finish the race, even if you finish at the last place.
Watch your mirrors and focus on avoiding contacts with the other cars, and you could be surprised with your results.

NateDawg
22-01-2018, 01:49
Don't worry if you think you're not among the best drivers, all you need is a brain and a lot of fair-play to have a good time in racing, remember that all you have to do is finish the race, even if you finish at the last place.
Watch your mirrors and focus on avoiding contacts with the other cars, and you could be surprised with your results.

Indeed. Sometimes it's actually a blessing to start from the back, take it easy through the first corner and power away from the idiots that take all and sundry out at the first corner. You usually make up 10-20% of your places at the first corner and settle in to a nice top 10, top 5 position to maintain for the rest of the race.

If you do manage to qualify mid pack, I find taking a cautious, but not too cautious approach works best. You can normally see the crazies weaving away in your mirror, so plan your braking so there is no one behind you if possible, or as far behind you as possible. Watch your mirror and move if you see a torpedo coming. It takes practice, but you'll get enough of it out there :)

Alfisti
22-01-2018, 02:04
Yeah that used to work but the penalty system effectively boxes you in because you cannot dodge the idiots but really, what can ya do but hope you get through it.

poirqc
22-01-2018, 02:29
Had a wonderfull night. Created a C1100 server, full damage. 3 10 Laps races. Lobby was between 8 and 16 Drivers. Nobody rammed no one! it was awesome.

At this point, having a C license is easy if you're clean. I wonder why it's only U1100 all over the place...

Boneboys
22-01-2018, 09:13
At this point, having a C license is easy if you're clean...

It's not if you drive in a full races.
Setting the level to C**** and limiting to 16 the grid does not help those that do their utmost to drive clean and wish to attain a higher grade.
I drive clean always but it does not mean that I will not lose points and eventually be downgraded, which has happened a few times because of simple mistakes I made or by others who also try to respect the rules,.

So for the average Joe who only has a limited time to spend in practice and race online it is not easy to reach grade C.

Give others a chance and let some of the lower grades get a shot at reaching the higher ranks by lowering your standards.

I'm a C also but I never start a lobby with such strict limits as some.
What I do is set a lower ranking while insisting on aids such as driving line off, cockpit view on.
A mandatory pit stop with automated control, there is nothing worse than being penalised because you didn't break in time when entering the pit lane.

I understand why people set the rating / grade limits so high but in my experience it is not a guarantee of clean or cleaner races.
Setting to U1500 will keep most of the grade C drivers including me (C1350 + or -).
I drive clean but rarely step up on the podium.

Do everyone a favour and lower the standards so that they may also reach a respectable C.

bazzalaar
22-01-2018, 09:23
I find that running my own lobby was the best way to have better races. I've got a couple of friends that I race with so it's easier to set my own lobby up and invite them to it than it is to all try and find a lobby we can all get in to. I always leave the rating quite low. usually "U1500" more to encourage people to come and join in. I'm reasonably quick so I'll try and get a couple of goo laps in, then I'll sometimes view the "monitor" and see how people are getting on. If they look like trouble during qualy they get kicked. (I'll point out I look for a reason to kick, like they've been crashing in to people, overly aggressive like blocking - no need during qualy, or if they're just constantly going off or crashing. Generally give other users the benefit of the doubt)

Keena
22-01-2018, 10:09
I went through a spell of hosting online and have to say it was a universally good experience. In 12 races I had to kick maybe three people, otherwise a warning was sufficient to gain an apology and better behaviour. Like others I set a good length of time for practice and qualifying so that I could watch the monitors, kept the grids a reasonable size and reminded people about watching mirrors, avoiding contact etc. Forcing cockpit view, assists authentic, damage on, tyre wear, fuel all on, racing line off etc all contributed to bringing genuine racers in and putting off the incompetent and the amateurs. I had no problems setting U0100 because as people have said, we're here to learn and if youre on your second race having made a mess of the first, how can you possibly improve if the thresholds keep pushing you into the wreckers lobbies. Effective policing is the best way forward using the monitors. That being said, if you want to help out new people online, don't select cars that are blatantly unsuitable. Ginetta juniors or something like that is highly recommended. Ive only stopped for the moment because of the lobby sometimes freezing between sessions, and single player needing some ai tweaks.

Boneboys
22-01-2018, 10:44
I always leave the rating quite low. usually "U1500" more to encourage people to come and join in.

That is not low.

By setting to *1500 you are excluding the vast majority.
There are very few that strive to improve their skills and ranks with 1500 or above, whatever the safety rating.
A guy that is rated A 1495 would be excluded from joining your server.
Drop it to 1000 /1200 if you want decent drivers to join.

Also drivers need to be made responsible and take care, setting damage OFF is counter productive and results in sloppy habits.
Damage ON at Performance Impacting so that a damaged car can limp back to the pits is a reasonable compromise.
I also recommend setting in-race damage mechanical failures to OFF, same for pitstop errors (so that drivers can at least finish the race without having to retire).

I always set Force Interior View and Racing Line OFF, although I admit this will exclude many not so sim racers but at the same time it improves driver responsibility by forcing them to use mirrors and be aware of their surroundings (no over wall peeking, lol).

This all depends on how you want to race, I try to force a clean race by using the parameters available, therefore giving people a chance to improve rank, standing and skills.
Unfortunately not everyone wishes to race as I do, which is fair enough, I have no problem with that.

Have fun.

gregc
22-01-2018, 11:52
I find that running my own lobby was the best way to have better races. I've got a couple of friends that I race with so it's easier to set my own lobby up and invite them to it than it is to all try and find a lobby we can all get in to. I always leave the rating quite low. usually "U1500" more to encourage people to come and join in. I'm reasonably quick so I'll try and get a couple of goo laps in, then I'll sometimes view the "monitor" and see how people are getting on. If they look like trouble during qualy they get kicked. (I'll point out I look for a reason to kick, like they've been crashing in to people, overly aggressive like blocking - no need during qualy, or if they're just constantly going off or crashing. Generally give other users the benefit of the doubt)


I went through a spell of hosting online and have to say it was a universally good experience. In 12 races I had to kick maybe three people, otherwise a warning was sufficient to gain an apology and better behaviour. Like others I set a good length of time for practice and qualifying so that I could watch the monitors, kept the grids a reasonable size and reminded people about watching mirrors, avoiding contact etc. Forcing cockpit view, assists authentic, damage on, tyre wear, fuel all on, racing line off etc all contributed to bringing genuine racers in and putting off the incompetent and the amateurs. I had no problems setting U0100 because as people have said, we're here to learn and if youre on your second race having made a mess of the first, how can you possibly improve if the thresholds keep pushing you into the wreckers lobbies. Effective policing is the best way forward using the monitors. That being said, if you want to help out new people online, don't select cars that are blatantly unsuitable. Ginetta juniors or something like that is highly recommended. Ive only stopped for the moment because of the lobby sometimes freezing between sessions, and single player needing some ai tweaks.


That is not low.

By setting to *1500 you are excluding the vast majority.
There are very few that strive to improve their skills and ranks with 1500 or above, whatever the safety rating.
A guy that is rated A 1495 would be excluded from joining your server.
Drop it to 1000 /1200 if you want decent drivers to join.

Also drivers need to be made responsible and take care, setting damage OFF is counter productive and results in sloppy habits.
Damage ON at Performance Impacting so that a damaged car can limp back to the pits is a reasonable compromise.
I also recommend setting in-race damage mechanical failures to OFF, same for pitstop errors (so that drivers can at least finish the race without having to retire).

I always set Force Interior View and Racing Line OFF, although I admit this will exclude many not so sim racers but at the same time it improves driver responsibility by forcing them to use mirrors and be aware of their surroundings (no over wall peeking, lol).

This all depends on how you want to race, I try to force a clean race by using the parameters available, therefore giving people a chance to improve rank, standing and skills.
Unfortunately not everyone wishes to race as I do, which is fair enough, I have no problem with that.

Have fun.

I almost never venture online, because idiots. However I very occasionally have a look at what lobbies are available - and all three of you that I have quoted are exactly the kind of thing I might join, because you obviously are setting up to encourage sensible racing. Unfortunately every time I find a lobby like this, with an interesting (to me) track/car selection, there always seems to be one restriction set that stops me joining in, and I'm interested to see that it's one that none of you have mentioned. Auto gears - allowed or not?

As a pad player (yeah, don't judge me :p) auto gears is my one crutch, all other assists are off, it's the one extra thing I just can't coordinate properly. It also, in my experience, confers no advantage - there no super quick shifting or anything like that in auto mode. However on the rare occasion that I'm actually looking, and I find something I might want to join, invariably the host has disabled auto gears, so I just head on back to singleplayer land...

Jetsun
22-01-2018, 12:09
As a pad player (yeah, don't judge me :p) auto gears is my one crutch, all other assists are off, it's the one extra thing I just can't coordinate properly. It also, in my experience, confers no advantage - there no super quick shifting or anything like that in auto mode. However on the rare occasion that I'm actually looking, and I find something I might want to join, invariably the host has disabled auto gears, so I just head on back to singleplayer land...

it feels overwhelming at first, but becomes a second nature in a few hours... then you'll can join those you like. moreover I can't word it properly, but it kind of gave me the sensation to be better in control of the car. There must be some good reason as to why modern race cars are more sequential than automatic :)

Boneboys
22-01-2018, 13:06
...snip...

With that CV1 you should really try and get a Wheel+Shifter & 3 pedal setup.
I know you may not have the space or $£€ for such a setup but believe me it will be worth it if you do, I used a controller in the past, so I know !

gregc
22-01-2018, 13:21
With that CV1 you should really try and get a Wheel+Shifter & 3 pedal setup.
I know you may not have the space or $£€ for such a setup but believe me it will be worth it if you do, I used a controller in the past, so I know !

90%+ of my gaming is done away from home - the Rift is portable, a wheel and pedals not so much....

FxUK
22-01-2018, 13:50
I always leave the rating quite low. usually "U1500" more to encourage people to come and join in.

U1500 means you get the newcomers to the game, but not the majority of regular players, who may also be very clean / competitive racers.

i.e, I'm S1500 at the moment, but usually find myself in the S14xx range more often than not.
I find a lot of good people to race with can be anywhere from E1200 to S1800, with the vast majority being in the 1300-1500, although recently seeing a few more people rising above to the x1600's.

It's easy to get to U1510, you can just smash everybody out of the race and win (I guess) and since a newcomer starts at U1500, the win will increase their skill and they cant drop safety more than U. In fact, its even easier than that at the moment, but that's another story...

But, its not so easy to become S, A, B, C, D 1510, because increasing safety, takes a lot of races.. races you have to be as clean as possible in, whilst still being competitive.

Atak Kat
22-01-2018, 13:59
My 2 cents (all related to general, public lobbies, where I assume that most people just want to race and have some fun with other guys)
Some of this is because the number of lobbies/racers on-line seems quite low. That's what I see on PS4. Maybe on PC it's different. If there were thousands on-line, then OK to setup the lobby more specific. But when there are too many restrictions in the settings, you just end up with very few people joining the lobby. Some of the settings are not so clear when you are joining a lobby (even in the screen you get when clicking R1.... some things are not there, or missing), and sometimes I wonder if the lobby owner puts something there as a little trick hoping others won't notice, maybe gives him an advantage.

So consider below my ideas for what makes a lobby appealing to guys like me (on PS4), who want to race, and would likely get lots of people to join.

- Personally I have not found major issues with U rated lobbies. Maybe I'm lucky. But my most enjoyable races are in U lobbies, or even the ones with the selection OFF. At least you can usually find a reasonably full lobby, instead of only 3 or 4 entries.
- But get rid of the 1500 limit, choose something lower.... there are SO many guys that are with higher safety rank (so they have some racing experience at least), but still below 1500 due to the early days of the online penalties for the disconnects. It is kinda annoying to be an A1450 driver, and not be able to join a U1500 race.
- Keep online-reputation to YES. I personally don't join those set to NO, unless there's really no other lobby to try.
- Allow car selection. It's a bit annoying to be forced into a particular car. Sometimes that is OK. But if you want to get lots of guys in a race, allow them to choose.
- Don't force default setups. Sometimes that's interesting, but if you have this forced, it immediately limits the number of guys that will join.
- Penalties - ON. It's clear that in races without penalties.... they are not really a race anymore. Just mayhem usually. Even if there are issues in the system, the racing is far better with them on.
- Collisions/Damage. Here, honestly, I prefer these ON. However, I'm OK if they are OFF, because I think it gets more guys in the race. And if the Penalties are on, then that helps.
- Tyre wear, fuel depletion. Keep them on. It's part of the racing and I think people expect that.
- force interior view, force driving line off, force manual gears - all these should be set to NO. Let the person choose.
- force realistic driving aids - Depends. It doesn't really matter to me, but for lobbies I setup, I choose NO.
- auto start engine, allow anti-lock brakes, traction, stability - all these I think should be set to YES. Turn them off and you limit the people who will join.
- Skip the practice session. personally, I avoid anything that has a practice session, unless it's almost finished. Takes too long to get racing.
- Qualifying, 10-15 minutes is decent and reasonable. Otherwise again, takes too long to get racing. You need to make it long enough that people still have a chance to join and get a lap in when they see the lobby is in Q. But not so long as to keep people waiting around too long to race.
- Race, for goodness sake, why are so many races shorter than the quali time? I see so many 6 lap races (sometimes 2 or 3??), and honestly that's barely enough time for any decent battles. At least 10 (except Nordscheife...). Then you've at least got a chance for some battles, someone will screw up (maybe you). I find it really annoying when there's such a short race and it just becomes a run-away from start to finish. 20 minutes of quali, 10 minutes of race..... ??. Maybe I'm alone on this one. Seems most people prefer the 6 lap races, but I cannot understand why.
- Keep the Ready-up on (or whatever it is called). I have not found anywhere where you can tell when joining the lobby, if the race will go directly from quali to race (so, no setup changes allowed after quali), or not. I know it's an option somewhere. And this is super annoying for a guy that joins the lobby, finishes quali, and finds himself on the startline without the right amount of fuel. I always make sure my car is setup at the end of quali, ready for the race distance. But if you get sent directly to the grid without the chance to setup, that's annoying. Sorry guys that are impatient.... 2 minutes is not the end of the world.
- mandatory pitstop - honestly, I don't understand why people put this in short races (like 6 laps). It seems useless, and it simply puts the race into the hands of the guys that have figured out the fastest way to make a 1L refill pit time. I find that newer guys often miss to notice this in the race details.


- weather/season doesn't matter so much, but when you throw in rain/snow, it's definitely going to limit those that will join.
- Formation lap - ok, neat feature, but better to keep it off. Sometimes mayhem if guys don't know what to do.
- Rolling vs. Grid start - personally doesn't matter to me. Rolling are usually with less mayhem. But grid is most common.

Alfisti
22-01-2018, 14:05
That is not low.

By setting to *1500 you are excluding the vast majority.
There are very few that strive to improve their skills and ranks with 1500 or above, whatever the safety rating.
A guy that is rated A 1495 would be excluded from joining your server.
Drop it to 1000 /1200 if you want decent drivers to join.

Also drivers need to be made responsible and take care, setting damage OFF is counter productive and results in sloppy habits.
Damage ON at Performance Impacting so that a damaged car can limp back to the pits is a reasonable compromise.
I also recommend setting in-race damage mechanical failures to OFF, same for pitstop errors (so that drivers can at least finish the race without having to retire).

I always set Force Interior View and Racing Line OFF, although I admit this will exclude many not so sim racers but at the same time it improves driver responsibility by forcing them to use mirrors and be aware of their surroundings (no over wall peeking, lol).

This all depends on how you want to race, I try to force a clean race by using the parameters available, therefore giving people a chance to improve rank, standing and skills.
Unfortunately not everyone wishes to race as I do, which is fair enough, I have no problem with that.

Have fun.

Forcing interior view drives me nuts, using chase cam you still need to use mirrors but I am just used to it and never gelled with interior view.

poirqc
22-01-2018, 14:05
It's not if you drive in a full races.
Setting the level to C**** and limiting to 16 the grid does not help those that do their utmost to drive clean and wish to attain a higher grade.
I drive clean always but it does not mean that I will not lose points and eventually be downgraded, which has happened a few times because of simple mistakes I made or by others who also try to respect the rules,.

So for the average Joe who only has a limited time to spend in practice and race online it is not easy to reach grade C.

Give others a chance and let some of the lower grades get a shot at reaching the higher ranks by lowering your standards.

I'm a C also but I never start a lobby with such strict limits as some.
What I do is set a lower ranking while insisting on aids such as driving line off, cockpit view on.
A mandatory pit stop with automated control, there is nothing worse than being penalised because you didn't break in time when entering the pit lane.

I understand why people set the rating / grade limits so high but in my experience it is not a guarantee of clean or cleaner races.
Setting to U1500 will keep most of the grade C drivers including me (C1350 + or -).
I drive clean but rarely step up on the podium.

Do everyone a favour and lower the standards so that they may also reach a respectable C.

I'll detail my PoV:

Safety rating:
U,F,E,D,C,B,A,S

As you can see, C safety is in the middle of the pack. I'm not including U because you get out of that almost instantly. A new driver that complete all of his races, without any podium, will still be able to reach that fairly quickly. If you don't leave before the end of a race, it won't get that many to reach that. From my PoV, i rarely see public lobbies with a safety rating higher than F, most of them are U****. So i guess i offer something different.

Skill rating:
From all the races i joined, most drivers(beside few exceptions) are rated between 1100 and 1900. From my PoV, setting 1100 is pretty inclusive. Another reason i set it there is the 400 skill point offset. If i set it lower, i won't give any point(i'm around 1500) to someone too low that would finish before me.

The reason i set the lobby to 16 is that if i start it with a track that permits 32, as an example. The first track will be fine. However, i won't be able to pick smaller track after the first one is finished. Beside, i run other combo than GT3 so there's rarely more than 10 people on the server.

As for the server's options, i won't list them all, but they're also inclusive. I try to setup what works for Public lobbies.

FxUK
22-01-2018, 14:09
The reason i set the lobby to 16 is that if i start it with a track that permits 32, as an example. The first track will be fine. However, i won't be able to pick smaller track after the first one is finished. Beside, i run other combo than GT3 so there's rarely more than 10 people on the server.

Off topic, but... Thanks for posting this, the penny just dropped :)
A few times I wondered why I was missing tracks from my list whilst in a lobby, I thought I was going mad... THIS is why :)

poirqc
22-01-2018, 14:22
Off topic, but... Thanks for posting this, the penny just dropped :)
A few times I wondered why I was missing tracks from my list whilst in a lobby, I thought I was going mad... THIS is why :)

Had that in pCars 1 also. Took me a while to understand. It's probably to prevent the need to kick people when the track is too small. The problem is that smaller track aren't available if there's fever people on the server.

Scott Coffey
22-01-2018, 15:18
On the topic of having options... would it be possible to remove the option that lets a host turn off the ready screen? I only see this in about 5% of the lobbies I enter, but it's always a shock when it happens. I use the ready screen to check the weather and track temp to make final adjustments to the tire pressures. And sometimes I need that screen because I've used up all the available time in qualifying and need to make final fuel adjustments. Regardless, the lack of a ready screen is never a welcome thing.

If we can't remove the option, could we at least expose the setting for all the participants? Currently, there is no way of knowing if a host has enabled the option or not.

bazzalaar
22-01-2018, 18:26
I use U1500 as it gives newcomers a chance to join what I hope would be a good race. I was working on the assumption that if people had too few points it's because they smash into everyone or quit a lot of races... So have spent most of their "online career" not doing very well and losing points. I'll take what you've said onboard though and try lowering the points. As I've pointed out before, the points license system is very flawed... I've been in races with a certain person who was an S1705 and had the Veteran coloured license and all he did was smash the crap out of me. So it's swings and roundabouts.

Other lobby settings I use:
Driving line OFF
Realistic aids
Damage OFF (I just want to enjoy racing which can be ruined with a few touches of another car)
Failures OFF
Manual pitlane

Can't think of many others... Races are usually 6-8 laps and i like to mix the cars and tracks up. So not just GT3 at Monza

NateDawg
22-01-2018, 23:34
Forcing interior view drives me nuts, using chase cam you still need to use mirrors but I am just used to it and never gelled with interior view.

This annoys me as well. It's actually harder to see other cars in cockpit view so probably causes more accidents when you force people not used to this view to use it. I started using cockpit view for a few months and enjoyed it, but find I race better in roof cam as I can see more of the track and hit apexes better. This does not affect anyone else's game, and actually provides better racing. Forcing cockpit view is just elitist nonsense.


I use U1500 as it gives newcomers a chance to join what I hope would be a good race. I was working on the assumption that if people had too few points it's because they smash into everyone or quit a lot of races... So have spent most of their "online career" not doing very well and losing points. I'll take what you've said onboard though and try lowering the points. As I've pointed out before, the points license system is very flawed... I've been in races with a certain person who was an S1705 and had the Veteran coloured license and all he did was smash the crap out of me. So it's swings and roundabouts.

Other lobby settings I use:
Driving line OFF
Realistic aids
Damage OFF (I just want to enjoy racing which can be ruined with a few touches of another car)
Failures OFF
Manual pitlane

Can't think of many others... Races are usually 6-8 laps and i like to mix the cars and tracks up. So not just GT3 at Monza

I don't think you understand how the scoring works... the First letter is the safety rating. For driving clean this improves from U through F, E to A, then finally up to S. You only improve this by racing clean, no penalties, etc.

The numbers at the end show your performance in the race. They have nothing to do with crashing in to people. It goes down when you finish below people rated lower than you, and up when you beat people rated higher than you. If you are letting in newbies with U1500, then they are quite likely to crash you out of the way, beat you, and steal your score.

If you opened your lobbies to higher safety ratings, but lower scores, then you would have cleaner races, but risk losing more of your own score if you lose to these people. It sounds like you are just trying to protect your score by constantly racing against new people with no idea what they are doing...

E.g. I have 1500 points, you have 1700. If I beat you I will go up to say 1530 and you will come down to 1670. However, if we are both C1400 and have a good clean race, we could both go up to B, but one of us will be B1395 and one B1405 at the end.

To be honest I'm not so bothered about by score, more so my safety rating as I prefer to come 2nd in a good clean race, than push someone off the track to win. It will always be this way.

Boneboys
23-01-2018, 09:27
Forcing cockpit view is just elitist nonsense.

Please don't confuse "elitiste nonsense" with simulating or at least trying to get the best simulation possible that the game offers, also I dispute your claim that cam view makes for a safer and better driver.
Players are free to leave a lobby, if they decide to race they are safe in the knowledge that they won't get worked over by some consoletownracelineonwallpeeker :biggrin-new:!

The rest of your post is informative but we are free to create a lobby and race as we prefer, there is nothing elitist about that.

VRoom...

wesker6664
23-01-2018, 10:05
The numbers at the end show your performance in the race. They have nothing to do with crashing in to people. It goes down when you finish below people rated lower than you, and up when you beat people rated higher than you.
This is true but you still gain a few points even when beating someone lower ranked :)

Also, the number is not really representative of the real "skill", as many people have lost hundred of points by just leaving the lobby (btw it really is hard to believe that 4 months after release there's no UI message warning the player that he will lose a lot of points if quitting).

JasonB
23-01-2018, 11:59
I really, really want to race online, but until the penalty/ram scenario is addressed, it's just not worth the frustration. The victim of getting rammed bears both the negative effects of getting rammed plus the infractions for going off track... meanwhile, the perp gets exactly what he wanted: you out of his way and clear road ahead. The whole situation is nuts.

I can't participate in leagues because of my own unpredictable schedule, so random lobbies is as good as I can do unfortunately, or I'd be all over league play. I do think it makes sense to run lobbies with damage on; at the very least, the idiot who just stuffed your six is at least penalized with an immobilized vehicle (hopefully). But vehicle damage shouldn't be the only deterrent to punting someone off the track, and if you're the puntee, you absolutely should not be hit with any penalties whatsoever.

I get the reasoning behind why lobby owners turn off all assists and require cockpit - the idea being that only seasoned (and therefore clean) players will join... but if my past experience in other games/sims is any indication, I don't think there's a strong correlation between a player who doesn't use assists and clean driving. Hyper-competitive people will justify any means necessary to win. If they can freely punt you from the track, then to them, NOT doing so is akin to leaving untapped advantage on the table. To an outright psychopath, it's almost nonsensical not to do it.

poirqc
23-01-2018, 12:08
I really, really want to race online, but until the penalty/ram scenario is addressed, it's just not worth the frustration. The victim of getting rammed bears both the negative effects of getting rammed plus the infractions for going off track... meanwhile, the perp gets exactly what he wanted: you out of his way and clear road ahead. The whole situation is nuts.

I can't participate in leagues because of my own unpredictable schedule, so random lobbies is as good as I can do unfortunately, or I'd be all over league play. I do think it makes sense to run lobbies with damage on; at the very least, the idiot who just stuffed your six is at least penalized with an immobilized vehicle (hopefully). But vehicle damage shouldn't be the only deterrent to punting someone off the track, and if you're the puntee, you absolutely should not be hit with any penalties whatsoever.

I get the reasoning behind why lobby owners turn off all assists and require cockpit - the idea being that only seasoned (and therefore clean) players will join... but if my past experience in other games/sims is any indication, I don't think there's a strong correlation between a player who doesn't use assists and clean driving. Hyper-competitive people will justify any means necessary to win. If they can freely punt you from the track, then to them, NOT doing so is akin to leaving untapped advantage on the table. To an outright psychopath, it's almost nonsensical not to do it.

Join my lobby or GrimeyDog's one. They're clean 99% of the time. :)

JasonB
23-01-2018, 12:50
Join my lobby or GrimeyDog's one. They're clean 99% of the time. :)

I will definitely have a look today!

Alfisti
23-01-2018, 13:42
I really, really want to race online, but until the penalty/ram scenario is addressed, it's just not worth the frustration. The victim of getting rammed bears both the negative effects of getting rammed plus the infractions for going off track... meanwhile, the perp gets exactly what he wanted: you out of his way and clear road ahead. The whole situation is nuts.[/B]

Last night a fine example, i finish second of 8 drivers at the RBR and gain 25 points, i then join a race at Classic Hockenheim with a TON of fog. Entering T1 you cannot see the apex at all, so i move to the side and brake carefully, I got my braking just right and upon entering the corner I am hammered by three other drivers. Race is over for me and i lose 35 points.

Like WHAT THE HELL am i supposed to do to avoid that?

bazzalaar
23-01-2018, 16:41
This annoys me as well. It's actually harder to see other cars in cockpit view so probably causes more accidents when you force people not used to this view to use it. I started using cockpit view for a few months and enjoyed it, but find I race better in roof cam as I can see more of the track and hit apexes better. This does not affect anyone else's game, and actually provides better racing. Forcing cockpit view is just elitist nonsense.



I don't think you understand how the scoring works... the First letter is the safety rating. For driving clean this improves from U through F, E to A, then finally up to S. You only improve this by racing clean, no penalties, etc.

The numbers at the end show your performance in the race. They have nothing to do with crashing in to people. It goes down when you finish below people rated lower than you, and up when you beat people rated higher than you. If you are letting in newbies with U1500, then they are quite likely to crash you out of the way, beat you, and steal your score.

If you opened your lobbies to higher safety ratings, but lower scores, then you would have cleaner races, but risk losing more of your own score if you lose to these people. It sounds like you are just trying to protect your score by constantly racing against new people with no idea what they are doing...

E.g. I have 1500 points, you have 1700. If I beat you I will go up to say 1530 and you will come down to 1670. However, if we are both C1400 and have a good clean race, we could both go up to B, but one of us will be B1395 and one B1405 at the end.

To be honest I'm not so bothered about by score, more so my safety rating as I prefer to come 2nd in a good clean race, than push someone off the track to win. It will always be this way.


I do know how the scoring system works. I actually couldn't care less about my score, I've mentioned that in other threads in the forums. Some people are way too precious about it... I like the stats on my driver profile page more tbh.
I care more about having people in the lobby to race against. I've tried hosting with higher safety ratings etc... but hardly anyone comes in. Don't get me wrong, you can still have a good race with 2-3 other cars. but to me, it just seems a little pointless. specially if 1-2 of those quit because they can't win. That has happened a few times and I've find myself driving round on my own...
I was working on the basis (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I say that, no doubt you will anyway ha) You start with U1505. So if someone is rated U but has under 1505 points it's because they're not very good. Which in fairness could be due to a variety of reasons. Just not as fast... Maybe they crash a lot... but by setting it as a "U" it's open to all users and setting 1500 means that you've possibly had a few ok races to be able to have kept that score. Were I to set the lobby to F100 for example I could end up with a load of people that crawl around the track just trying to get their safety rating up? (Not sure why anyone would do that... pointless)

poirqc
23-01-2018, 17:10
I do know how the scoring system works. I actually couldn't care less about my score, I've mentioned that in other threads in the forums. Some people are way too precious about it... I like the stats on my driver profile page more tbh.
I care more about having people in the lobby to race against. I've tried hosting with higher safety ratings etc... but hardly anyone comes in. Don't get me wrong, you can still have a good race with 2-3 other cars. but to me, it just seems a little pointless. specially if 1-2 of those quit because they can't win. That has happened a few times and I've find myself driving round on my own...
I was working on the basis (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I say that, no doubt you will anyway ha) You start with U1505. So if someone is rated U but has under 1505 points it's because they're not very good. Which in fairness could be due to a variety of reasons. Just not as fast... Maybe they crash a lot... but by setting it as a "U" it's open to all users and setting 1500 means that you've possibly had a few ok races to be able to have kept that score. Were I to set the lobby to F100 for example I could end up with a load of people that crawl around the track just trying to get their safety rating up? (Not sure why anyone would do that... pointless)

I don't know the range of drivers skills, on PS4, but 1500 is higher than average on PC. Sure, we all start at 1500. But you need a pretty high win rate to stay close to that. A friend of mine is a super good crowd driver. He's fast. Yet, he's around 1400.

Personnally, i'm around 1500 and i often lose to drivers around 1400 or lower. Anyone might have more experience/skill in other combos.

At the end of the day, the skill rating shouldn't be viewed as a progress bar, it should be viewed as a metric to race agaist driver of similar skill.

To come back at the rating. I think the ideal is to set it that it include as many drivers as possible, while weeding out those that are dangerous*.

*A whole subject all together.

Alfisti
23-01-2018, 17:33
I don't know the range of drivers skills, on PS4, but 1500 is higher than average on PC. Sure, we all start at 1500. But you need a pretty high win rate to stay close to that. A friend of mine is a super good crowd driver. He's fast. Yet, he's around 1400.

Personnally, i'm around 1500 and i often lose to drivers around 1400 or lower. Anyone might have more experience/skill in other combos.

At the end of the day, the skill rating shouldn't be viewed as a progress bar, it should be viewed as a metric to race agaist driver of similar skill.

To come back at the rating. I think the ideal is to set it that it include as many drivers as possible, while weeding out those that are dangerous*.

*A whole subject all together.

Yep can confirm on ps4 that not a lot of drivers are at 1500 points, most are below that.

TheBaldReverend
23-01-2018, 17:46
I'm up to C1447 after today. I lost 30 points through a disconnect as well today.

I can say with absolute confident that the CRL does make for fairer racing. I think back to Forza and F1 201x online and think what a complete waste of time. With PCars, once you've managed to climb out of the U ring there is plenty of clean racing out there. Just keep an eye on your mirrors - if someone is divebombing you just move out of the way, it's likely they will cock up the corner anyway and you can just get right back past them.

If you're on U and want to increase your rating, just don't qualify, start from the back of the grid and concentrate on staying out of trouble.

I've gone from hating the online and penalty system to loving it and think SMS really have out done themselves.

NateDawg
23-01-2018, 23:41
I do know how the scoring system works. I actually couldn't care less about my score, I've mentioned that in other threads in the forums. Some people are way too precious about it... I like the stats on my driver profile page more tbh.
I care more about having people in the lobby to race against. I've tried hosting with higher safety ratings etc... but hardly anyone comes in. Don't get me wrong, you can still have a good race with 2-3 other cars. but to me, it just seems a little pointless. specially if 1-2 of those quit because they can't win. That has happened a few times and I've find myself driving round on my own...
I was working on the basis (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I say that, no doubt you will anyway ha) You start with U1505. So if someone is rated U but has under 1505 points it's because they're not very good. Which in fairness could be due to a variety of reasons. Just not as fast... Maybe they crash a lot... but by setting it as a "U" it's open to all users and setting 1500 means that you've possibly had a few ok races to be able to have kept that score. Were I to set the lobby to F100 for example I could end up with a load of people that crawl around the track just trying to get their safety rating up? (Not sure why anyone would do that... pointless)

1500 is almost unattainable if you race in public lobbies. All you are doing is restricting your lobbies to newcomers and those that either race against AI to boost their score, or people that are seriously good.

I am an average driver, a bit cautious and safe though. I get punted off regularly by others who are not so cautious and safe and as a result suffer with my score going down because I'm constantly 20-30 seconds off the lead. My score is around 1450ish.

think about this, you join a room with full damage, qualify mid grid. Get to the first corner and the guy behind you brakes too late and smashes you into the wall, steering is broken, no chance of getting back to the pits (or no desire because you're fed up). You quit the race because you don't want to waste the next 30 minutes of your life watching other people have fun. You lose 20-30 points from your score.

It's for this reason that the vast majority of people are 1500 or less, not because they are bad drivers, but because there are bad drivers out there. It is then very difficult to get your score back up because you lose more points than you gain as people with high scores (such as yourself) only race in lobbies with high scores. So if you're 1400 racing against another 1400, you probably get 10 points for beating them.

The score is not reflective of ability at the moment because of the severe penalty for disconnection. Over time, it will average out, I'm sure.

bazzalaar
24-01-2018, 17:27
Yeah that's all fair enough. A view I hadn't really thought about tbh. I'm trying to sort out a house move atm so Haven't played online much this week. But I'll certainly start dropping the points restriction and see what happens.

FxUK
24-01-2018, 17:37
When PC2 was first released and I was finding my feet with it, my ratings went something like this (obviously a lot more steps involved)
U1500 > F1400 > E1350 > D1300 > C1200 > B1100 > A1200 > A1300 > A1200 > A1300 > A1400 > S1400 > S1450 > S1500 > S1490

At first, I thought retiring when I was a lap down (due to crashes) was fair for all other racers, but it just killed my points.
I never even quit races, I stayed in the pits monitoring the rest. It took me a while to realise that I had to finish every race I started, regardless of outcome.

Even now, if I race in public random lobbies, my skill goes up the majority of the time, but.. when I join RWB lobbies because it seems they mostly race amongst themselves and avoid public lobbies, some (not all) of their scores have been fairly static. Because I am say S1500 and lose to S1300, I lose big, every race. A few races later, I'm back to S1400.

It takes public lobbies to raise my score again to 1500, probably because I am then racing a lot more U1500 or U1400 people and beating them, whereas I can't beat quite a few of the RWB guys who are S1200 - S1400. Something like that anyway.

It's all a bit weird, so much so that I honestly couldn't care less anymore if its 1500 or 100. Oh and the fact that it is bugged too doesn't help :)

JasonB
24-01-2018, 18:02
Why are new drivers treated with ratings that far exceed the average? In other words, if 1500 is so difficult to achieve and maintain, why is that the default value for an unknown player? It seems to me that if the average rating across the whole population is 1300 (for example), then shouldn't 1300 be the default rating for driver with no online history/experience?

FxUK
24-01-2018, 20:54
Why are new drivers treated with ratings that far exceed the average? In other words, if 1500 is so difficult to achieve and maintain, why is that the default value for an unknown player? It seems to me that if the average rating across the whole population is 1300 (for example), then shouldn't 1300 be the default rating for driver with no online history/experience?

My guess is.. expectations versus reality.

I mean, check the community events. Requirements of:
U100 - Many pages worth of participants, I'm not counting
U1600 - 76 particpants
U1800 - 6 participants
U2000 - 0 participants

Clearly SMS expected different. But, as I said in my prior post, players skill ratings really depends on who you are racing against.
If I raced in pub sessions only, I would probably be in the S1600's if not more by now, but if I raced with club members exclusively, I would probably be S1200-1300.