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Drizute
19-01-2018, 14:59
Noticed there are waay fewer posts in the forums these days, just asking as I have no stats if this is as a result of the issues being resolved or people being fatigued with said issues and moving on ?

poirqc
19-01-2018, 15:12
http://steamcharts.com/app/378860

Holidays are over. Might indicate part of a small slowdown. Personnaly with the ski season, i barely have time to play.

Raklodder
19-01-2018, 15:27
I think it's the later, but I'm always around here and keep playing the game (almost daily) despite of its fair share of bugs.

Drizute
19-01-2018, 15:46
http://steamcharts.com/app/378860

Holidays are over. Might indicate part of a small slowdown. Personnaly with the ski season, i barely have time to play.

Wow 1K users... such a small community when compared to the other RPG games

balderz002
19-01-2018, 16:01
Same old people here now as there were 6 months, 12 months, and longer ago. There isn't as much scrabbling around for monthly dlc clues like there was for the first game, due to the fact we aren't getting monthly dlc.

Maybe a lot of people are too busy playing the game, to come on here and talk about it?

Konan
19-01-2018, 16:07
...we banned everyone...:p

RoccoTTS
19-01-2018, 16:12
...I banned everyone...:p

FIFY :p

Konan
19-01-2018, 16:21
LOL

RoccoTTS
19-01-2018, 16:26
I'm not moving on, i'm here to stay for a while.

Drizute
19-01-2018, 16:34
Same old people here now as there were 6 months, 12 months, and longer ago. There isn't as much scrabbling around for monthly dlc clues like there was for the first game, due to the fact we aren't getting monthly dlc.

Maybe a lot of people are too busy playing the game, to come on here and talk about it?

Was hoping to replace the iChasing account with this, but probably not get there...

Drizute
19-01-2018, 16:41
http://steamcharts.com/app/378860

Holidays are over. Might indicate part of a small slowdown. Personnaly with the ski season, i barely have time to play.

S Florida... Tried Skiing yesterday but 2 problems... No Snow, no hills???

poirqc
19-01-2018, 16:46
Wow 1K users... such a small community when compared to the other RPG games

iRacing, AC and pCars 2 are the biggest online communities. Put them together and you're still really far away from mainstream genre.


S Florida... Tried Skiing yesterday but 2 problems... No Snow, no hills???

You don't really need snow to ski :D For the slopes, it's better with them, yeah!

TorTorden
19-01-2018, 16:47
It's January, in all online games I have played the first month or two in a year has been relatively slow.
And currently pcars2 is between patches and DLC's.

Cholton82
19-01-2018, 16:53
I've been a member of a few forums , Supra / Lotus and Subaru owners clubs and have to say for the most part this is a well civilised and friendly forum with useful information , I have never met any of you yet some of you seem quite familiar .
I look forward to a brief catch-up with a coffee in the mornings to see what's going off and having people like Ian and others from the team comment and helping with issues makes this one of the best forums I've been a part of .
Been here since before PCars 1 I think and going nowhere anytime soon.

banner77amc
23-01-2018, 19:33
I think there will be an uptick with another patch and the additional DLC. Perhaps the complaints have gone down because 2018 is already that much better in everyone's eyes.

bubbleguuum
23-01-2018, 21:25
So many good sims and so little time...

Zaskarspants
24-01-2018, 10:05
There seems to be less daft repetitive posts seeking to misconstrue, misdirect and misinform. I haven't had to post " leaderboards are restricted by sony and m soft" for at least a week and no one has had their house blow up and pets die after booting up pcars for a bit.

It appears to me that there is a higher proportion, interesting and helpful posts after the launch frenzy.

OddTimer
24-01-2018, 10:29
banned users, game is getting into a more solid and reliable state so people are probably playing it more, new dlc came out recently, holidays....several factors really....

Dynomight Motorsports
24-01-2018, 10:37
Game Fatigue....Still many issues, no communication from Dev's, no progress... I check here every now and then to see if there is any mention of the "P*tch 4.0" and each time it gets shut down. They already have our money.. so what's there to talk about? I mean come on I can't get more than 9-10 people in a Multiplayer lobby, its killed the Xbox League racing community.

Konan
24-01-2018, 10:42
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/search.php?do=process&searchuser=SMS&showposts=1&searchdate=365&beforeafter=after%20&contenttype=vBForum_Post

OddTimer
24-01-2018, 10:52
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/search.php?do=process&searchuser=SMS&showposts=1&searchdate=365&beforeafter=after%20&contenttype=vBForum_Post

This! I check this link everyday, and I think SMS communication is great.

Ofnir4
24-01-2018, 10:53
People not willing to wait out just left. For me it's more a case of realization of the fatality, the pace is set, patches come at regular intervals that are clearly not quick enough to stop the bleeding of players.

The rest of us, depending on the platform either have a good enough game to not warrant any complaints or got used to living in shit to put it lightly. (OG xbox here)

The game launched in September, we almost are in February, I still can't fully play the career, MP is plagued by that penalty system and online championship DO NOT work, can't run solo events with more than 17 cars without breaking the game.
When I read "that will be fixed by next patch" what I really see is "By the time your grand kids graduate from college, we'll have stopped your bleeding artery from killing you."

Thanks for the effort, but I died 60 years ago, you're just fiddling with a dead body.

I love this game, will continue to play it, but I'm running out of people to play with.

RoccoTTS
24-01-2018, 11:13
Game Fatigue....Still many issues, no communication from Dev's, no progress... I check here every now and then to see if there is any mention of the "P*tch 4.0" and each time it gets shut down. They already have our money.. so what's there to talk about? I mean come on I can't get more than 9-10 people in a Multiplayer lobby, its killed the Xbox League racing community.

This is a good example of "people only see what they wanne see".

No communication ? As Konan already pointed out, it's not true. They also communicated all the future dlc packs we gonna get. And if you are looking good, Ian already confirmed some fixes for patch 4.
No progress ? We already had 3 patched and patch 4 is on its way, we already had 1 big dlc pack and the next dlc is coming in a few months.

Konan
24-01-2018, 11:18
Ian already confirmed some fixes for patch 4.

...And so did Doug...

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1465684&viewfull=1#post1465684

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60392-Formula-Renault-Career-Nurburgring-Unnecessary-Pit-Stops&p=1465688&viewfull=1#post1465688

RoccoTTS
24-01-2018, 11:21
...And so did Doug...

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1465684&viewfull=1#post1465684

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60392-Formula-Renault-Career-Nurburgring-Unnecessary-Pit-Stops&p=1465688&viewfull=1#post1465688

Thanks, I did not know this yet and this is very good news.

Konan
24-01-2018, 11:23
Thanks, I did not know this yet and this is very good news.


That's when a +/- 1200 subscribed thread count comes in handy....LOL
...and counting....:cool:

Sankyo
24-01-2018, 11:26
They already have our money.. so what's there to talk about?
Silly accusations towards the devs perhaps? Please drop it, or you're out.

Raklodder
24-01-2018, 11:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d6yBHDvKUw&feature=youtu.be

I know the video is old and it might seem like a cliche, but by this point I can wait forever. The first few months was really hard for me having come from an fps community, where we'd get weekly updates, but time went by and I learned to cope with the reality of it (or perhaps the complexity of the game) and got battle hardened and thankfully this time around, they seem more willing to give us advance information of what's coming up.

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 11:33
Silly accusations towards the devs perhaps? Please drop it, or you're out.

Has 'accusations' word some different meaning in English than I think? Why do you continue warning people for accusation while there is no one?
SMS got our money. It's the fact, no accusation. For this money, they provided game which is affected by hundreds of issues in every area. It's not an accusation. It's the fact.

And yes, random posts from devs I couldn't name the communication.

Sankyo
24-01-2018, 11:38
Has 'accusations' work some different meaning in English than I think? Why do you continue warning people for accusation while there is no one?
SMS got our money. It's the fact, no accusation. For this money, they provided game which is affected by hundreds of issues in every area. It's not an accusation. It's the fact.
Yes it's a literal fact, but also a veiled accusation of SMS not caring for their customers anymore as soon as the cash is in. If you cannot see that, and only see the literal meaning of the written words, then that's where the difference in interpretation comes from.


And yes, random posts from devs I couldn't name the communication.
They're not random posts, and there's no entitlement to any communication.

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 11:46
Interpretation is subjective thing. I expected moderators to be objective.
IMO nobody said SMS is not caring for customers anymore.
But SMS don't provide direct support. They hide behind forum/mods/community. It might be received in a way, that there is no support.
The game after half a year still has serious issues regardless 3 patches released. Try to imagine that people are loosing faith that it turns finally well after patch4.
And note, PC1 has been abandoned without fixing some important issues. It also doesn't help.

So, I wouldn't say it's accusation, since it comes from facts. It's how people feel about it and sometimes being angry expressing it on support forum because there is no another way to say how bad they feel about it.

Konan
24-01-2018, 11:51
IMO nobody said SMS is not caring for customers anymore.
So, I wouldn't say it's accusation, since it comes from facts. It's how people feels about it.

Really?


no communication from Dev's, no progress.

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 11:56
It's hard to measure progress having no tools and data to measure. It might have been different having list of reported issues with information about which one is confirmed, being worked on and ready to deploy with incoming patch.
For random user, attempt to evaluate progress just by posts marked as "confirmed" or comments from devs gives rather haggard result.

cpcdem
24-01-2018, 11:56
Interpretation is subjective thing. I expected moderators to be objective.
IMO nobody said SMS is not caring for customers anymore.
But SMS don't provide direct support. They hide behind forum/mods/community. It might be received in a way, that there is no support.
The game after half a year still has serious issues regardless 3 patches released. Try to imagine that people are loosing faith that it turns finally well after patch4.
And note, PC1 has left without fixing some important issues. It also doesn't help.

So, I wouldn't say it's accusation, since it comes from facts. It's how people feels about it.

FWIW, when I read that "They already have our money.. so what's there to talk about?", I also interpreted it without any doubt for me that he meant that they do not care.

Btw, I was very late here, played PC1 seriously only a few months before PC2 came out and I could indeed tell that there were still several problems that needed fixing. But then again, some day I checked the patch history of that game and what I had missed by joining late:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/forumdisplay.php?148-News-amp-Announcements

After reading those lists, I really don't think anyone can seriously claim that "they don't care after taking our money".

One thing I agree though with some people is that I also feel fixes for serious problems in PC2 are coming a bit late. But at least they certainly do come.

Konan
24-01-2018, 12:03
It's hard to measure progress having no tools and data to measure. It might have been different having list of reported issues with information about which one is confirmed, being worked on and ready to deploy with incoming patch.
For random user, attempt to evaluate progress just by posts marked as "confirmed" or comments from devs gives rather haggard result.

That still leaves the obvious improvements that can be noticable by just playing the game...so "no progress" i objectively call a false statement...
The "no communication" part shouldn't even need clarification...again...my objective view (you can hear crickets chirping at most other game forums)

Sankyo
24-01-2018, 12:04
Interpretation is subjective thing. I expected moderators to be objective.
IMO nobody said SMS is not caring for customers anymore.
Again, it wasn't stated literally but it's hidden in the statement. If you cannot see it because you do only literal interpretation of the English text then that's something on your end, but you shouldn't accuse us Mods of being unfair because of that.


But SMS don't provide direct support. They hide behind forum/mods/community.
Two false statements. SMS provide direct support through this forum, there's dozens of dev postings that prove that, but their time is limited to be here. They're not 'hiding' (which is also a veiled accustion at the devs that they're doing something on purpose that they shouldn't do by some arbitrary subjective standard), the forum and community is a good way to provide support while they can spend time on improving the game.



It might be received in a way, that there is no support.
Subjective interpretation of the situation is something completely out of control for anyone involved. That doesn't make it a fact, though.


The game after half a year still has serious issues regardless 3 patches released. Try to imagine that people are loosing faith that it turns finally well after patch4.
As said, how people interpret facts is not something that can be controlled. The devs and mods are also limited in what they can do to control people's thoughts (and luckily so ;)).


So, I wouldn't say it's accusation, since it comes from facts. It's how people feels about it.
There are facts indeed, but there's subjective interpretation connecting the facts and being turned into conclusions. The accusation doesn't come from the facts, but from the interpretation. It's a logical fallacy to say that the accusation comes directly from the facts only.


The devs aren't active currently because they have good reasons for it, being hard at work being the major reason. The community and mods are taking care of getting feedback to the devs, most of which happens unseen to forum members. Fixing things and testing the fixes take time, and there may be other considerations why small, regular fixes aren't possible. It has been communicated what the current status of patch 4 is, and that's it. Very little to discuss about that really.

Konan
24-01-2018, 12:08
Again, it wasn't stated literally but it's hidden in the statement. If you cannot see it because you do only literal interpretation of the English text then that's something on your end, but you shouldn't accuse us Mods of being unfair because of that.


Two false statements. SMS provide direct support through this forum, there's dozens of dev postings that prove that, but their time is limited to be here. They're not 'hiding' (which is also a veiled accustion at the devs that they're doing something on purpose that they shouldn't do by some arbitrary subjective standard), the forum and community is a good way to provide support while they can spend time on improving the game.



Subjective interpretation of the situation is something completely out of control for anyone involved. That doesn't make it a fact, though.


As said, how people interpret facts is not something that can be controlled. The devs and mods are also limited in what they can do to control people's thoughts (and luckily so ;)).


There are facts indeed, but there's subjective interpretation connecting the facts and being turned into conclusions. The accusation doesn't come from the facts, but from the interpretation. It's a logical fallacy to say that the accusation comes directly from the facts only.


The devs aren't active currently because they have good reasons for it, being hard at work being the major reason. The community and mods are taking care of getting feedback to the devs, most of which happens unseen to forum members. Fixing things and testing the fixes take time, and there may be other considerations why small, regular fixes aren't possible. It has been communicated what the current status of patch 4 is, and that's it. Very little to discuss about that really.


...what he said...:cool:

Ofnir4
24-01-2018, 12:08
Has Doug become head of PR and communication as well as AI and physics ? By just being here, he's done far more to keep this community afloat than any Dev whose job it might have been. (and that person should give Doug his salary or at least a beer)

I don't envy any Moderator on this forum either stuck between a rock and a hard place, someone should also buy all of you a beer.

Sankyo
24-01-2018, 12:16
Has Doug become head of PR and communication as well as AI and physics ? By just being here, he's done far more to keep this community afloat than any Dev whose job it might have been. (and that person should give Doug his salary or at least a beer)

I don't envy any Moderator on this forum either stuck between a rock and a hard place, someone should also buy all of you a beer.
We know how much the presence of a dev on this forum does. There's limits to their time, though.

Konan
24-01-2018, 12:16
Has Doug become head of PR and communication as well as AI and physics ? By just being here, he's done far more to keep this community afloat than any Dev whose job it might have been. (and that person should give Doug his salary or at least a beer)

I don't envy any Moderator on this forum either stuck between a rock and a hard place, someone should also buy all of you a beer.

Can't blame a guy for taking pride in his work...i'm guessing the guys responsible for PR and communication gave him the honours to announce it himself which is a nice gesture...

...and i'll have a gin 'n tonic if it's all the same to you....:cool:

TorTorden
24-01-2018, 12:23
SMS has so far been THE only developer where the CEO has replied directly to forum posts.
Apart maybe for those tiny indie game developers working out of a basement and consists of maybe a three man team.
And I have been on more than a few forums like this through the past 15 years or so.

Something I find to be a rare and honest level community interaction and something I applaud.

Like I mentioned earlier, January and February are quiet months, doesn't need to mean more than that.

From running my Eve-online group we saw this year after year.
we where a small group, no more than a few hundred players and it covered EU,US,AUS time zones.

The after Christmas lull was sometimes so severe we nearly didn't survive, followed by a slow uptick in activity, towards spring and summer, and during the summer heat almost everyone would simply vanish this was another known lull we would need to prepare for.
Then as school and work started up again and our most active times was late summer towards Christmas where it would all start over again.

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 12:42
SMS has so far been THE only developer where the CEO has replied directly to forum posts.

So what? Most of his posts aren't helpful to a player. He starts to post mostly if he feels he has to defend PC2 against accusations the title it's bugged.
Of course he has rights to do whatever he wants especially since PC2 is like his child (being a developer I can understand that attitude). But we are still talking about communication and support, aren't we?

Cristi
24-01-2018, 12:45
So what? Most of his posts aren't helpful to a player. He starts to post mostly if he feels he has to defend PC2 against accusations the title it's bugged.
Of course he has rights to do whatever he wants. But we are still talking about communication and support, aren't we?

But at least some of his posts (a bit more than "some" in my opinion) are helpful. If anything, it serves to show that he is reading these forums when possible and is taking an active role within the community.

Konan
24-01-2018, 12:50
So what? Most of his posts aren't helpful to a player. He starts to post mostly if he feels he has to defend PC2 against accusations the title it's bugged.
Of course he has rights to do whatever he wants especially since PC2 is like his child (being a developer I can understand that attitude). But we are still talking about communication and support, aren't we?

He knows very well that there are plenty of others that can communicate and give support...he's a CEO and has to look after his company first...
On top of that he also cares for his customers enough to show his face in good as well as in bad times...what more do you want?

Sankyo
24-01-2018, 12:58
And it's not that the CEO should support people, even though he does sometimes.

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 13:05
It's true.
I just emphasised why argument put by @TorTorden (actually I saw it several times) isn't relevant to support the thesis.

Cristi
24-01-2018, 13:08
It's true.
I just emphasised why argument put by @TorTorden isn't relevant to support the thesis.

But it is. You claimed SMS doesn't care about the community, and yet Ian is more active on the forums than the average CEO (Yogi Bear reference there...)

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 13:24
You should read previous posts more thoroughly.
Ian's activity (by most of its content) supports image of PC2 and SMS, not community. Therefore it cannot be used to support 'SMS does care about the community' thesis.

Cristi
24-01-2018, 13:29
You should read previous posts more thoroughly.
Ian's activity (by most of its content) supports image of PC2 and SMS, not community. Therefore it cannot be used to support 'SMS does care about the community' thesis.

Even if you're to consider the worst case scenario, Ian still at least cares what the community thinks about PC. You're still wrong.

Konan
24-01-2018, 13:31
You should read previous posts more thoroughly.
Ian's activity (by most of its content) supports image of PC2 and SMS, not community. Therefore it cannot be used to support 'SMS does care about the community' thesis.

Surely you don't believe that yourself?
I've seen him "ordering" the team to make changes to something some community members asked for.
...more than once actually...
Why would SMS even bother starting this forum and the Discord channel if they didn't care about the community's concerns to begin with...or do you think they started these solely to hear praise about their games?

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 13:32
"to care about what the community think" and "to care about the community" are totally different things.


I've seen him "ordering" the team to make changes to something some community members asked for.
...more than once actually...

Yep. I saw it also: for example to create a list of issues ;)

Please don't go into exceptions trying to prove a common sense. There is a button "SMS Posts" on top of this page. It's enough to go through of recent Ian's posts. I wouldn't say they are supportive for a player (with single exceptions). But everyone can have his own opinion.

Sum Dixon-Ear
24-01-2018, 13:35
"to care about what the community think" and "to care about the community" are totally different things.

You are going to resort to semantics to back up your flawed reasoning... seriously?

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 13:38
Yep, since others uses wrong semantics to throw arguments against me

Zaskarspants
24-01-2018, 13:40
I think if all posters reflected more on what they are adding to the community when they post, then they may refrain from raising their pet issues ad infinitum.

Konan
24-01-2018, 13:43
I'm confused now....how can they not care about the community if they don't care about what that community think to begin with :confused:

Drizute
24-01-2018, 13:48
So 5 pages in and varied responses apart from the obvious troll, many of the posts are just a measurement of the people in this forum. The question was simply are you not posting because you dont have anything to post on anymore or tired of posting because your have either moved on or don't think the game warrants the time anymore?

What it and many threads degrade into is simply the customer complaining about "his/her" issue and the perceived lack of investment in "his/her" issue by the company, then the inevitable response from the company that they are doing everything to overcome the problem.

This seems repeated in many of the many posts on this forum.

Does SMS not see this repetitive trend? When you as a company have to continually point out to the customer that you are "working your ass off" to fix "his/her" issue and pointing out that even the Ian Bell posts in the forums as a genuine example of how hard you work and how much you care about the customer... Is the simple fact that you have to continually point this out, to "defend" yourselves continually, really the underlying issue here.

I realize having a list of the bugs in the program is cannon fodder for your competitor, not what you want to advertise... but watching the same posts pop up over and over again and the same defensible position being offered in response must be exhausting....
When you constantly have to tell the customer base that you are indeed working on the problem is it not true that your customer base perceives you are in fact NOT working on the problem.

As a dumb analogy, we here in S Florida lose power during hurricanes, we want our power back, doesn't matter when but we WANT it back. Reality is however that they cant give everyone back their power at the same time. What they do however is keep everyone updated as to the people who have their power back, social media, websites, maps etc, They laud their accomplishments and in a way that comforts the base to a point of staying off a revolution, because "I" still don't have power and I want it. What they don't do is tell the customer its unreasonable for him to expect power back in 5 min, tell them they don't appreciate their attitude and they will get power back, when they get it, or even according to us you have power already why are you calling us???

Ok a software company is not power company, i get it, but usually when you see the CEO of a company doing press, its usually not a good thing... (United Airlines) although we appreciate Ian Bell and his involvement in the forums, having the CEO defend or even point out the inaccuracies of a poster, IMHO is not where we want the CEO to be.

BUT what the hell do I know I am a powerless individual who wants the online championship to work, when the power comes back on.....of course.

solocapers
24-01-2018, 14:03
So 5 pages in and varied responses apart from the obvious troll, many of the posts are just a measurement of the people in this forum. The question was simply are you not posting because you dont have anything to post on anymore or tired of posting because your have either moved on or don't think the game warrants the time anymore?

What it and many threads degrade into is simply the customer complaining about "his/her" issue and the perceived lack of investment in "his/her" issue by the company, then the inevitable response from the company that they are doing everything to overcome the problem.

This seems repeated in many of the many posts on this forum.

Does SMS not see this repetitive trend? When you as a company have to continually point out to the customer that you are "working your ass off" to fix "his/her" issue and pointing out that even the Ian Bell posts in the forums as a genuine example of how hard you work and how much you care about the customer... Is the simple fact that you have to continually point this out, to "defend" yourselves continually, really the underlying issue here.

I realize having a list of the bugs in the program is cannon fodder for your competitor, not what you want to advertise... but watching the same posts pop up over and over again and the same defensible position being offered in response must be exhausting....
When you constantly have to tell the customer base that you are indeed working on the problem is it not true that your customer base perceives you are in fact NOT working on the problem.

As a dumb analogy, we here in S Florida lose power during hurricanes, we want our power back, doesn't matter when but we WANT it back. Reality is however that they cant give everyone back their power at the same time. What they do however is keep everyone updated as to the people who have their power back, social media, websites, maps etc, They laud their accomplishments and in a way that comforts the base to a point of staying off a revolution, because "I" still don't have power and I want it. What they don't do is tell the customer its unreasonable for him to expect power back in 5 min, tell them they don't appreciate their attitude and they will get power back, when they get it, or even according to us you have power already why are you calling us???

Ok a software company is not power company, i get it, but usually when you see the CEO of a company doing press, its usually not a good thing... (United Airlines) although we appreciate Ian Bell and his involvement in the forums, having the CEO defend or even point out the inaccuracies of a poster, IMHO is not where we want the CEO to be.

BUT what the hell do I know I am a powerless individual who wants the online championship to work, when the power comes back on.....of course.

I agree with most of this.

A lot of people here get a bit giddy that Ian posts on here a lot but when a lot of the posts descend in to semi arguments with posters (regardless if its pointing out their inaccuracies or simply defending his game by bigging it up against the competition) it doesn't really help.

Yes its great that he posts and engages the community but there's been a few bannings after speaking which seem overly harsh. That in itself creates bad PR for the game.

Im disappointed with the game being honest without going in to it.. its like walking on eggshells a bit and while it'll have a strong niche following I think a lot of people feel like their fingers have been burned a bit.

Konan
24-01-2018, 14:09
I agree with most of this.

A lot of people here get a bit giddy that Ian posts on here a lot but when a lot of the posts descend in to semi arguments with posters (regardless if its pointing out their inaccuracies or simply defending his game by bigging it up against the competition) it doesn't really help.

Yes its great that he posts and engages the community but there's been a few bannings after speaking which seem overly harsh. That in itself creates bad PR for the game.

Im disappointed with the game being honest, its died a fair bit on its backside and while it'll have a strong niche following I think a lot of people feel like their fingers have been burned a bit.

Those bans will certainly not have been issued for just "speaking"...

Zaskarspants
24-01-2018, 14:09
Your argument and analogy are flawed.
You are eliding that no electricity is as bad as bugs in a game, this is not the case.

Your argument about electricity customers may have more validity if the game was completely unable to run or if your electricity customers were complaining of occasional brown outs or brief localized supply problems.

Your electricity company may also be dealing with hoax calls at times and vexatious reports for the analogy to be even better.

I do think a list of alterations and pending fixes would stop much of the repetitive postings that appear to infest many threads.

edit - sorry responding to post 56.

solocapers
24-01-2018, 14:13
Those bans will certainly not have been issued for just "speaking"...

Without digging through the whole forum as an example the fella who was always talking about FFB appeared to be banned for nothing. Certainly looking at his previous posts leading up to the ban. Theres a few other cases like that.

Unless stuff was said over PM.

Zaskarspants
24-01-2018, 14:16
I agree with most of this.

A lot of people here get a bit giddy that Ian posts on here a lot but when a lot of the posts descend in to semi arguments with posters (regardless if its pointing out their inaccuracies or simply defending his game by bigging it up against the competition) it doesn't really help.

Yes its great that he posts and engages the community but there's been a few bannings after speaking which seem overly harsh. That in itself creates bad PR for the game.

Im disappointed with the game being honest without going in to it.. its like walking on eggshells a bit and while it'll have a strong niche following I think a lot of people feel like their fingers have been burned a bit.

I think that is a misrepresentation of Ian's input and of the circumstances of those bans.
I have never seen anyone banned who wasn't being a complete troll / threatening / rude / and so on.

Your last sentence is just weasel words.

solocapers
24-01-2018, 14:18
Weasel words? What on earth are you talking about? I dont get what the problem is with what im saying there.. as an example.. I had a group of about 11-12 players who played Pcars 1 together who have now ALL ditched it simply with the problems racing online. The experience just isnt as good as some would like you to believe.

Zaskarspants
24-01-2018, 14:30
Weasel words? What on earth are you talking about? I dont get what the problem is with what im saying there.. as an example.. I had a group of about 11-12 players who played Pcars 1 together who have now ALL ditched it simply with the problems racing online. The experience just isnt as good as some would like you to believe.

Er, I have a copy of the game so no one is persuading me of anything.
I do accept some are disappointed in the game just as you must accept that many, myself included are not.

I am sorry to hear you have stopped playing it and hope you come back after patch4.

solocapers
24-01-2018, 14:38
Er, I have a copy of the game so no one is persuading me of anything.
I do accept some are disappointed in the game just as you must accept that many, myself included are not.

I am sorry to hear you have stopped playing it and hope you come back after patch4.

Yea I accept that and its good to hear some are enjoying it.

Its just a pity that imo the game got released in arguably a similar state to PCars 1 regarding the number of issues at launch which killed interest for a lot of people. Its almost absolutely hurt the game long term with having to work their ass off to address the issues.

The patch notes have been massive on all patches so far and it really shouldn't have been as much. But that's an argument for another day.

Im going to give it a go over the weekend to see how its fairing as its been before Christmas the last time I fired it up.

Zaskarspants
24-01-2018, 14:50
I dont agree with the foundation of your argument i am afraid, that pcars2 was released in as unfinished a state as pcars1.

I only have 150 hours on pcars1 having purchased the game after all the patches were done and I still found it awful to use, just awful compared to pcars2.

solocapers
24-01-2018, 15:00
I dont agree with the foundation of your argument i am afraid, that pcars2 was released in as unfinished a state as pcars1.

I only have 150 hours on pcars1 having purchased the game after all the patches were done and I still found it awful to use, just awful compared to pcars2.

Yea the physics were a lot worse off in Pcars 1 - certainly the new tyre model helped a hell of a lot making the cars much more manageable and no ones saying the game was released unfinished (even though it didnt have the built in E-Sports stuff from day 1 but we'll not go there)

The game worked for the most part on release by the definition of the word.. it was just buggy and on PS4 crashed regularly. Nearly every single review noted on the buggy state of release so its not as if its been plucked out of the air and like I said given the amount of patch notes for the various patches, clearly a lot was not working well on release and we've still got the system seller - Livetrack 3.0 not working online! Months after release amongst other issues.

From buying both day 1 its very much analogous to me on the state of their respective release states and its a shame as imo it could have really took a big dent out of Forza and GT if it were released in a stable state with half decent matchmaking at launch due to the goodwill earned from the clear ambitious release of the first title..

Scott Coffey
24-01-2018, 15:20
Pcars2 should have been released spring of 2018.

We were told that pressure from Bandai/Namco was the cause of the rushed release, but we were also told in the run-up to Pcars1 that the new SMS studio was no longer beholding to publishers. Oh well...

Zaskarspants
24-01-2018, 15:28
Yea the physics were a lot worse off in Pcars 1 - certainly the new tyre model helped a hell of a lot making the cars much more manageable and no ones saying the game was released unfinished (even though it didnt have the built in E-Sports stuff from day 1 but we'll not go there)

The game worked for the most part on release by the definition of the word.. it was just buggy and on PS4 crashed regularly. Nearly every single review noted on the buggy state of release so its not as if its been plucked out of the air and like I said given the amount of patch notes for the various patches, clearly a lot was not working well on release and we've still got the system seller - Livetrack 3.0 not working online! Months after release amongst other issues.

From buying both day 1 its very much analogous to me on the state of their respective release states and its a shame as imo it could have really took a big dent out of Forza and GT if it were released in a stable state with half decent matchmaking at launch due to the goodwill earned from the clear ambitious release of the first title..

Anyone who left pcars2 for pcars1 must be a loon in my view, pcars2 was more polished in every way on release to the post patched pc1.

I dont recall pcars2 crashing on release being reliably or widely reported.

I don't get all this angst about pcars this pcars that or they should have done this or that or forza will whatever and so on for ever. It's pointless, it is what it is , SMS develop the way they develop. I think the result is the best sim for me, and I enjoy it immensely.

Jetsun
24-01-2018, 15:32
As a beginner I find this game just awesome, like a dream coming true. Never did I have this feeling of driving a real car, with so much diversity and details, and with this sensation of having a solid tool in my hands to learn racing.
So as long as the basics of physics are already there and well polished, I'm very satisfied, and it seems to me that all other problems are secondary because just a matter of time.
Of course all this might be only my inexperience speaking, but even if I can understand the frustration of those already racing for years, I can't agree with those seeing only the dark side, and only complaining, that helps nobody, including themselves.

rosko
24-01-2018, 16:54
The issue for me regarding communication from devs is most of it is buried within random posts. For me good communication is for SMS to make a statement, this is what we are working on (bugs/features), this is our intentions in the short term. I always really liked the communication you get from many games that do this & often its emailed out to me. just my opinion but the longer it continues the colder i feel about this game. Next Patch will be the last of the waiting for me, i will review the game as a finished product & decide if i want to continue with it.

Cristi
24-01-2018, 17:00
Whilst the communication coming from SMS is a bit sparse, it's not unheard of in the business. Having played a lot of flight sim, I know PMDG (makers of some of the best add-ons for flight sim) had a similar approach to business. "It's done when it's done". And people got used to that approach and everyone was ok with it.
It's clear SMS are working on the game. It's clear there will be a patch coming. You don't even need to dig too far to find that info. It's also clear that they care about the game and the community. A patch will come. The exact contents are a bit irrelevant, since they can't fix everything, and everything left unfixed will make a lot of people angry, no matter what. You can't please everyone. So in the mean time enjoy the game as it is and be patient.

iggy
24-01-2018, 17:07
Pcars2 should have been released spring of 2018.

We were told that pressure from Bandai/Namco was the cause of the rushed release, but we were also told in the run-up to Pcars1 that the new SMS studio was no longer beholding to publishers. Oh well...

Here's my thoughts on this... at one time, I felt the same way... that it shouldn't have been released when it was, because it wasn't really finished...

However... I now have a totally different view on it. The other side of this is that it was released, and while it wasn't perfect, I did get to use it, and I learned a lot while I was using it, even with the 'bugs' that it had when I first got it. ( a couple months ago ).

At this moment in time, I still have one or two odd things happen to me when I'm racing online , ( on PS4 ) such as my laps not all being counted ... people being kicked out of lobby when I didn't intend them to be kicked... but, this does not stop me from enjoying the game VERY MUCH... So, I absolutely would not want to still be waiting for PC2 to be released... no way, I'd rather have the game with some bugs, than to not have it at all.

RoccoTTS
24-01-2018, 17:17
The issue for me regarding communication from devs is most of it is buried within random posts. For me good communication is for SMS to make a statement, this is what we are working on (bugs/features), this is our intentions in the short term. I always really liked the communication you get from many games that do this & often its emailed out to me. just my opinion but the longer it continues the colder i feel about this game. Next Patch will be the last of the waiting for me, i will review the game as a finished product & decide if i want to continue with it.

Witch other games ?
Forza ? I've been on the Forza forums for many years, from FM2 until FM6. I've never seen any decent communication from the devs besides big promos when the game was released.
GT ? How many times did Kaz or other devs been on the official GT forum ? Euh, wait.....i forgot..... GT doesn't even have an official forum and Kaz doesn't even speek English.

Drizute
24-01-2018, 17:45
Your argument and analogy are flawed.
You are eliding that no electricity is as bad as bugs in a game, this is not the case.

Your argument about electricity customers may have more validity if the game was completely unable to run or if your electricity customers were complaining of occasional brown outs or brief localized supply problems.

Your electricity company may also be dealing with hoax calls at times and vexatious reports for the analogy to be even better.

I do think a list of alterations and pending fixes would stop much of the repetitive postings that appear to infest many threads.

edit - sorry responding to post 56.

Thanks for the response, always good to get into a discussion based on different viewpoints. I agree its not a like for like approach, that s why I stated its a dumb analogy, However, your rationale about the on off of electricity CAN be used in this case, as many of the users have stated on many occasions.. I can't use it anymore, or cant play the game, or why cant I find any online rooms, where have they gone? etc etc. hence their individual bugs have turned them off the game, hence the slow down in the posts... the original request on the thread. So the approach has been fix MY problem or I am not playing anymore. The users that continue to play with their bugs are still here and either complaining about it, or not. That was the basis for the analogy, to explain the drop in people on here, have they gone or have the problems gone. Based on the posts here I really still don't know ?

Cristi
24-01-2018, 17:58
I don't buy that people left just because of the bugs. There are bugs, but they don't completely break the game. I think people left mostly because they already bought in on a platform and they expected a finished product. That's a bit unrealistic. PC2 is very young compared to other sims. Give it time and everyone will be back.

rosko
24-01-2018, 17:59
Witch other games ?
Forza ? I've been on the Forza forums for many years, from FM2 until FM6. I've never seen any decent communication from the devs besides big promos when the game was released.
GT ? How many times did Kaz or other devs been on the official GT forum ? Euh, wait.....i forgot..... GT doesn't even have an official forum and Kaz doesn't even speek English.

What is Forza?
DCS, IL-2, RF-2, Arma 3, The Division, Elite Dangerous. Trust me there are plenty of these.
It's not that they do not communicate my point is SMS do it in a way that only gets through to a select fanbase. It's almost exclusively through replying to random threads. twitter is just promoting stuff. If the game didn't have frustrating elements to it i wouldn't care about all this.

Zaskarspants
24-01-2018, 18:03
Thanks for the response, always good to get into a discussion based on different viewpoints. I agree its not a like for like approach, that s why I stated its a dumb analogy, However, your rationale about the on off of electricity CAN be used in this case, as many of the users have stated on many occasions.. I can't use it anymore, or cant play the game, or why cant I find any online rooms, where have they gone? etc etc. hence their individual bugs have turned them off the game, hence the slow down in the posts... the original request on the thread. So the approach has been fix MY problem or I am not playing anymore. The users that continue to play with their bugs are still here and either complaining about it, or not. That was the basis for the analogy, to explain the drop in people on here, have they gone or have the problems gone. Based on the posts here I really still don't know ?

Occams razor persuades me against complex reasoning. I think post xmas lull or post launch normality being resumed is a simpler explanation.

Your thesis rests on the assumption that those not complaining are suffering in some way and perhaps you are mistaken in seeking to extend the attitudes of a vocal minority who complain very loudly, repetitively to include those who are happy and enjoying the game.

That is your error of reasoning as many such as myself are enjoying the game without angst. Most of the people who are enjoying the game are not here saying so and the vast majority of them probably never read or post here.

Ofnir4
24-01-2018, 18:44
I don't buy that people left just because of the bugs. There are bugs, but they don't completely break the game. I think people left mostly because they already bought in on a platform and they expected a finished product. That's a bit unrealistic. PC2 is very young compared to other sims. Give it time and everyone will be back.

Don't break the game ? From launch until the first patch, cars would not steer straight and if you manage a tune that would fix it, it would end up on another car, very unstable, after the first patch, thermonuclear, turn the wheel and you explode. Now back to unstable, less but still, broken penalty system, broken online champ. Go get an xbox, buy a physical copy of the game, go offline to avoid any patch and then we'll talk. Both standard PS4 and Xbox have been an unstable mess from launch. Given the previous game update life cycle of a year, that would mean 30% of the time the game was trash.

When 50% of the career is fubar, solo is fubar and online works when people don't JIP it's beyond game breaking, there's no game to be played.

You know why PC2 is young ? Because it's the only true sim that does bi-yearly installments. Age them by franchise and PC is not a rookie.

And people don't expect finished products, they expect WORKING products. People I was playing with at launch are gone, most of them got refunds, the rest got back to other, polished titles, and when after 3 months you send messages to tell guys "hey, the game works now !" you know it was game breaking.

Safe to say, after 4 months, people would like to see an update or feature roadmap instead of a DLC roadmap. It's also a good thing the first DLC did not come sooner, because that would have been seasoning a turd and calling it a Crème brulée.

Drizute
24-01-2018, 18:50
Occams razor persuades me against complex reasoning. I think post xmas lull or post launch normality being resumed is a simpler explanation.

Your thesis rests on the assumption that those not complaining are suffering in some way and perhaps you are mistaken in seeking to extend the attitudes of a vocal minority who complain very loudly, repetitively to include those who are happy and enjoying the game.

That is your error of reasoning as many such as myself are enjoying the game without angst. Most of the people who are enjoying the game are not here saying so and the vast majority of them probably never read or post here.

So your answer to my simple question is that the most problems are fixed, people are happy and not posting... hardly complex reasoning.. because there are FEWER posts here in the forums...
Thats fine, it answers my original question thanks

Rodders
24-01-2018, 18:54
Initial flurry on the forum in the first few months then I simply have said all I want to and find less and less interests me to get involved in or the same things repeated over and over, hence not much point replying again with the same responses. I pop on here most days, just post less.

Also too busy playing and enjoying the game.

Bugs exist, they have been reported and I hope they get fixed. In the meantime the game is still very playable in fact onto round 6 of our first league which is going well (with a few simple workarounds to avoid some bugs).

balderz002
24-01-2018, 19:39
. It's also a good thing the first DLC did not come sooner, because that would have been seasoning a turd and calling it a Crème brulée.

Well I for one love this seasoned turd.

Ofnir4
24-01-2018, 20:02
You didn't quite taste it at its peak on xbox, the flavors were much stronger. Now it's on its way to become a true creme brulee, most of the ingredients are here.

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 20:57
PC2 is very young compared to other sims. Give it time and everyone will be back.

I'm afraid PC2 has no so time as other sims have. Using your metaphor: It's younger but it will die young.

Jetsun
24-01-2018, 22:11
It's younger but it will die young.
if you really think so, then why investing time and energy in it?

MaXyM
24-01-2018, 22:12
Do you mean whom? SMS or us?
Or maybe you didn't understand the metaphor.
Other sims (iR, rf2, R3E) are available for customers for more than 5 years being continuously developed. PC1 has been replaced by its successor after 19 months. PC2 it's just another business model than other sims. So you cannot compare them regarding time left for polishing.

Jetsun
24-01-2018, 22:50
Ah ok, so that's not real definitive death you're speaking about, but more of a continuum of reincarnations, then ok, worth investing time. Two different business models, but same constant refinement of the product over the years.

Dynomight Motorsports
24-01-2018, 23:44
...And so did Doug...

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1465684&viewfull=1#post1465684

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60392-Formula-Renault-Career-Nurburgring-Unnecessary-Pit-Stops&p=1465688&viewfull=1#post1465688

Wow, that's great, but I like to play online against real people...
Any News on adding some stability to the multiplayer situation on Xbox?

peterCars
25-01-2018, 00:37
I'd be ranting about a broken game but last week I realised I didn't have enough air in the tyres, now I race a responsive Renault 3.5 and have gone from 40 to 90% difficulty.
that said, If I were king of SMS, and I liked to promote myself as open and community minded I would publish the bug list and the priorities of those items... they do do project management rather than ad-hoc, don't they?
and on the other hand I would not spend all my time on the forum for too much cavilling about the ninth part of a hair (/Shakespeare).
I'll spend around 10 min on average here a day.. I get tips that are useful.

Keena
25-01-2018, 07:43
This particular user is just waiting for patch 4 and the ai tweaks. No point in playing career mode until then, and hand on heart it has to be acknowledged that the single player career is a bit 2 dimensional (take the email system as an example. Does anyone even read them in single player anymore?) SMS would really help themselves with more technical content too. How many threads are there on tyre pressures for example. This information should be included via the setup screen, race engineer or somewhere, because users think it's bugged if their pressures are off. So yeah, I think there's an attrition of people from the game that I hope will be reversed long term, and I hope that going forward lessons are being learned where appropriate. I'm still hugely impressed with the product and let's not forget, 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful tool but not valid as a position from which to criticise. I still wish to congratulate the team at SMS for an excellent and ongoing job and my feeling is that the team there are really going to be world beaters in the end. Just my two pennies worth and of course its just an opinion. It's probably wrong but it's how I feel about things so valid for me. Have a good one all.

OddTimer
25-01-2018, 10:07
I am still playing the game and enjoying it. Mainly 10 lap races until 4.0 comes out and improves the ai.

pkcraistlin
25-01-2018, 10:51
gamers are the biggest entitled sooks in the history of consumerism.

MaXyM
25-01-2018, 11:47
Ah ok, so that's not real definitive death you're speaking about, but more of a continuum of reincarnations, then ok, worth investing time. Two different business models, but same constant refinement of the product over the years.

In ideal world yes.

In fact it's far different in pace or refinement. For example PC2 has been released with issues which originated from earlier versions of PC1 (next to other which haven't been patched). Such regression occasionally happens to all projects. But PC2 seems to be forked from earlier version of PC1 code, but haven't got subsequent fixes ported from predecessor.
On the other side there are all those long-term projects which goes with really slow pace, being always behind game-technology wise (with ugly gfx, weak sound) and sometimes being stuck because radical change is not possible (in regards to compatibility or so) or even would require to rewrite a whole which is simply out or ROI.

I never preferred the second model. Regardless its low price (maybe except for iR) - or maybe because of low price - they recently look like titles from previous gaming age. But quality and stability of all game mechanics is undisputed. There are no problems with loading setups, there is no need to deleting setups, no problems with sync etc. It's stable, being desired foundation for serious use (leagues).
Unfortunately lacks in visuals/sound makes those titles less popular, making them not attractive enough to guarantee constant feed of new payers. It turns into low incomes and slows development even more.

Games like PC2 are trying to keep pace with AAA titles. Thanks to that they offer outstanding gfx, sound and even physics which convinces me more than other titles. Unfortunately there are serious lacks in polishing and a lot of compromises. Sometimes it looks like bunch of ground braking features which functionality is closer to prototype than effectively working feature. At the end such title ends up to be one-season game, never being a software foundation for league portals (like rf1 or rf2)

Paying for long-term project once, some lacks seems to be justified. But by supporting company by paying full price every year and half I would like to believe it's perfect in all aspects.
That's the reason where a discontent comes from. Especially because the lifetime of such product is short, people are not prone to wait for improvement. Why should they if a successor is around a corner?

ermo
25-01-2018, 12:44
The vibe I'm picking up is that people have generally given up on PC2 in its current state.

IF that is the case, THEN one gets the sense that patch 4 had better be good if PC2 is going to be considered a viable product going forward.

In all honestly, I'm not comfortable using PC2 for anything but hotlapping -- I simply don't trust the UI and the save mechanisms to do what I expect, which is to say that I never really feel that I can trust that the game state and the UI state are actually in sync. That's the biggest (trust) issue I have with PC2, which is sadly also keeping me from spending time with the career mode. On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoy the driving experience in PC2.

Please note that I'm specifically talking about the product and the state it is currently in, not the developers creating it (the devs are pretty awesome actually). The product just isn't quite there yet IMHO. If, on the other hand, the product is allowed to bake to completion (there's clearly a financial aspect involved here), I suspect people will come back in droves.

Markus Ott
25-01-2018, 14:31
Imho the people who were the loudest and complained most in an attempt to get PCARS2 back on route have just given up for now.
This game is plagued with bugs that were already in early pCARS1 versions back in 2011, and again came out about 95% finished. Yet we are going into the sixth month after release and all we've seen were two or three patches. That's far off sufficient patch support to get the game where it should have been in the first place when it was released.
I had hopes pCARS as a franchise could take over the sim market, but all the problems are holding it back (again). iRacing is outdated in almost everything, AC doesn't offer enough tracks and cars and dynamics to own the market and pCARS2 is the one with the wasted potential. Right now on twitch there are six streams live with an overall of 16 viewers. That's how relevant it is (especially considering how much bigger the community should be compared to other sims). A lot of streamers I watched after release who raced with their communities have given up because of all the lobby bugs and the general tone about pCARS2 on sim racing streams and chats is always "good game, destroys the fun with the bugs."

I don't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes or how games are developed, but to me it seems pCARS2's problems are mostly burried deep into the core engine of the game. There is no other explanation why SMS is unable to resolve bugs that are present for years. What's up with the excessive tire smoke in the rear view mirror for example?! Why am I still starting in the wrong camera view out of the pits sometimes?! Any reason why SMS couldn't fix annoying stuff like that in over 6 years?

sas5320
25-01-2018, 14:55
^prioritization, usually the Game Director (or Producers) indicate if people should work on new things or fix bugs. Seems the direction here was to work on new features more and the bug fixing was not prioritized sufficiently prior to release.

cpcdem
25-01-2018, 14:59
Personally I am optimistic. I think almost everybody agrees that the potential of this game is huge, but it's the bugs (and some design decisions) that are letting people down. Right now I think almost all bugs (or the important ones) are very well documented/reported, SMS know about them and what's causing them, so they will be able to fix them soon. They have already said many fixes are already included in patch 4, hopefully a lot more will be included in it, leaving as less important ones as possible for patch 5.

I think there's a very high probability that once patch 4 gets out, most of us will be extremely pleased, devs will be coming to the forum saying "See? All you had needed to do was a little patience..." and a lot of people will be coming back to the game. Then, later, patch 5 will finish us off for good :). Maybe wishful thinking, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if this will happen indeed in a few weeks.

Raklodder
25-01-2018, 15:07
gamers are the biggest entitled sooks in the history of consumerism.
I don't agree and think the word "demanding" would be more appropriate.

Sankyo
25-01-2018, 15:08
^prioritization, usually the Game Director (or Producers) indicate if people should work on new things or fix bugs. Seems the direction here was to work on new features more and the bug fixing was not prioritized sufficiently prior to release.
It doesn't work like that. It's not bug fixing, but bug finding that is the hard part. When a game is as complex as this one, with a gazillion different configurations that the game can be played on w.r.t. both hardware and software, and only limited time and bug finding resources, there's no such thing as a bug-free product. Everyone wants it, including the devs, but it's not possible.

MaXyM
25-01-2018, 15:23
Actually I found that those most complex things work rock stable while most trivial ones (like loading/saving setups or switching to another car after connecting a lobby) are bugged. You cannot say that saving/restoring recently used camera is something complex.

ant1897
25-01-2018, 15:54
Actually I found that those most complex things work rock stable while most trivial ones (like loading/saving setups or switching to another car after connecting a lobby) are bugged. You cannot say that saving/restoring recently used camera is something complex.

LT3.0 isnt working in MP as it should, sync issues make it useless. Everyone knows this. The devs have been ignoring it. Thats a major issue. Buggy menus i can deal with.

Konan
25-01-2018, 15:57
LT3.0 isnt working in MP as it should, sync issues make it useless. Everyone knows this. The devs have been ignoring it. Thats a major issue. Buggy menus i can deal with.

Who said the devs have been ignoring it?

MaXyM
25-01-2018, 16:04
LT3.0 isnt working in MP as it should, sync issues make it useless. Everyone knows this. The devs have been ignoring it. Thats a major issue. Buggy menus i can deal with.

I believe LT3.0 works as expected. What doesn't work is synchronization of weather across clients.
Also I wrote "most complex things". I never mentioned that complex issues doesn't exist. I'm arguing that there are a lot of issues for which using a "complex" word is abusing ;)

Jetsun
25-01-2018, 16:50
Actually I found that those most complex things work rock stable while most trivial ones (like loading/saving setups or switching to another car after connecting a lobby) are bugged. You cannot say that saving/restoring recently used camera is something complex.

Then we should really rejoice if the devs are only facing trivial bugs right now :D

Cladandadum
25-01-2018, 16:52
I must admit that I have not played the game this month. My career mode remains on hold (GT3) until patch 4 comes out, as I found the AI to be too inconsistent and the experience was becoming less enjoyable. I only tried multiplayer 6 times as I was logged out of the lobby 50% of the time and found it to be too frustrating. This was also the case for time trial. The core gameplay of PC2 is incredibly impressive and I plan to return with further polishing.

Have been playing the Division this month. Picked the game up for next to nothing in the PS sale and have benefited from a game 2 years in development since release. Have not been logged out of a lobby once, which for multiplayer is kind of important.

ant1897
25-01-2018, 17:06
Who said the devs have been ignoring it?

There hasn't been any news about this issue, at all. Its been brought up in many threads, and we've never had a concrete answer on whats going on. I see many answers and updates from the devs on various other bugs and fixes coming, but not this.

I should have worded it differently. It appears/looks like the devs are ignoring it. No way of knowing, just basing myself of what i see in the forums.


I believe LT3.0 works as expected. What doesn't work is synchronization of weather across clients.
Also I wrote "most complex things". I never mentioned that complex issues doesn't exist. I'm arguing that there are a lot of issues for which using a "complex" word is abusing ;)

You're right. The syncing is the issue. But it renders LT3.0 useless in MP (especially in a competitive setting), so the end result is the same :D

Jetsun
25-01-2018, 17:07
Paying for long-term project once, some lacks seems to be justified. But by supporting company by paying full price every year and half I would like to believe it's perfect in all aspects.
That's the reason where a discontent comes from. Especially because the lifetime of such product is short, people are not prone to wait for improvement. Why should they if a successor is around a corner?

I like to think that this company is quite unique on the market and might surprise us for the best in the future. That's why I'm very happy to pay full price for now, and will do as long as i got this good feeling. I'll give them time to prove me if I'm wrong or right, can't wait to see the tarmac/low grip fork that should come with next titles, and there again I will give them time to improve the low grip part because rally will be quite new to them :p

gp2112
25-01-2018, 20:26
Thanks for the response, always good to get into a discussion based on different viewpoints. I agree its not a like for like approach, that s why I stated its a dumb analogy, However, your rationale about the on off of electricity CAN be used in this case, as many of the users have stated on many occasions.. I can't use it anymore, or cant play the game, or why cant I find any online rooms, where have they gone? etc etc. hence their individual bugs have turned them off the game, hence the slow down in the posts... the original request on the thread. So the approach has been fix MY problem or I am not playing anymore. The users that continue to play with their bugs are still here and either complaining about it, or not. That was the basis for the analogy, to explain the drop in people on here, have they gone or have the problems gone. Based on the posts here I really still don't know ?

Hey D-Rizzle. Long thread and I am at work so I have nothing to add except I find you to be an exceptionally intelligent sort even if you can't drive worth a hoot. You are probably good looking too.

Just needed to say that. I feel better now...Carry on.

ermo
25-01-2018, 20:27
LT3.0 isnt working in MP as it should, sync issues make it useless. Everyone knows this. The devs have been ignoring it. Thats a major issue. Buggy menus i can deal with.

FWIW, this was brought up internally a while before release. Apparently, the data volume required for keeping things 100% in sync is only feasible within the latency (and CPU) constraints on a local area network with a dedicated server handling the state.

LT3.0 is a really cool piece of tech, but it is arguably somewhat ahead of its time...

MaXyM
25-01-2018, 20:38
Actually I don't believe this s***
You don't need to synchronize clients every tenth of second. Even 1 minute period would be enough. You don't need to synchronize every droplet of water or every square mm of puddle.
If single mode can simulate changeable conditions (while simulate means repeatable results for the same input data), then it would be enough to send initial data and let each client calculates weather on its side.

And the last things:
if it's true what you say, then
* this mode shouldn't be available for multiplayer through Internet at all.
* devs would had say this to us (and put into manual)

Ahh BTW: Even 5 years old rFactor2 is able to synchronize a weather.

You know what... I appreciate your effort but 1st April is not today ;)

ant1897
25-01-2018, 21:14
FWIW, this was brought up internally a while before release. Apparently, the data volume required for keeping things 100% in sync is only feasible within the latency (and CPU) constraints on a local area network with a dedicated server handling the state.

LT3.0 is a really cool piece of tech, but it is arguably somewhat ahead of its time...

Huh, I'm really hoping this isn't the case, as it doesn't bode well for all the leagues, esports, etc., that depend upon this system being in sync to provide a level playing field for all competitors.

That being said, the lack of communication from the higher-ups about this issue makes total sense if you take what ermo said into consideration. My gut wants to believe this, especially since he's an WMD member. But I'll try and stay rational and wait for official word from the devs. If it ever comes. :confused:

Renoldo1990
25-01-2018, 21:18
FWIW, this was brought up internally a while before release. Apparently, the data volume required for keeping things 100% in sync is only feasible within the latency (and CPU) constraints on a local area network with a dedicated server handling the state.

LT3.0 is a really cool piece of tech, but it is arguably somewhat ahead of its time...

So, this would mean the Issue isn't fixable in future patches?
Especially on consoles where dedicated servers aren't available?

Roushman624
25-01-2018, 21:57
Well we are all still waiting on a known issues list but you might as well just call that wishful thinking. We were supposed to have that months ago...

V3nom
25-01-2018, 22:01
Such a list would be pretty bad for the company. Think of all the bugs that would still appear on that list after SMS allready moved on to other projects.
I think a decent percentage of PC2 buyers wouldn't of bought PC2 if they had such a list for the first game.

Roushman624
25-01-2018, 22:06
Such a list would be pretty bad for the company. Think of all the bugs that would still appear on that list after SMS allready moved on to other projects.
I think a decent percentage of PC2 buyers wouldn't of bought PC2 if they had such a list for the first game.
That's what I suggested before but a mod was pretty quick to shut such accusations down.

V3nom
25-01-2018, 22:10
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60392-Formula-Renault-Career-Nurburgring-Unnecessary-Pit-Stops&p=1466667#post1466667

Here is an interesting turn of events also. Guess what! Thread got closed in a matter of minutes because OP got answered. While right it was an 'interesting' conversation.
This one will probably get closed for the same reason or for the 'off topic' material.

MaXyM
25-01-2018, 22:10
Actually they can use google to a page with all those bugs multiplied by number of reports, spiced by users frustration.
It's called support forum.

And what about change-lists added to patches?

ant1897
25-01-2018, 22:11
Such a list would be pretty bad for the company. Think of all the bugs that would still appear on that list after SMS allready moved on to other projects.
I think a decent percentage of PC2 buyers wouldn't of bought PC2 if they had such a list for the first game.

I think it would be infinitely worse if they knew LT3.0 would not be stable and in sync unless it was on a local area network, and then put the game out anyway, and try to keep it hush when issues start occurring.

Konan
25-01-2018, 22:16
Will you guys quit it with the conspiracy theories please...

Roushman624
25-01-2018, 22:20
Will you guys quit it with the conspiracy theories please...

I was banned last by Ian for saying the truth... Project Cars 2 is the most ambitious racing game ever made but it's plagued by bugs just like the first. I also said that people have lost trust with SMS and if they fix PC2 near perfect it will make people trust them but if they can't do it this time then that trust will be lost forever. Is that deserving a ban?

ant1897
25-01-2018, 22:20
Will you guys quit it with the conspiracy theories please...

With all due respect, thats what happens when there's a void of information. Whatever little bits are out there get extrapolated into half-a** theories lol. Oh well. Gotta keep busy at work somehow! :D

Jetsun
25-01-2018, 22:27
"No doubt you all will *still* find stuff that peve's you or isn't quite perfect. This game is massive and with all the combinations you can come up with to create a race, stuff can still happen. I think the majority of the issues though are solved/improved. "

Konan
25-01-2018, 22:27
I know of at least two of you who got a chip on their shoulder for not getting what they want immediately and were very understanding upto that moment...
Funny how ones perception of things can change by the flick of a switch...

mass control
25-01-2018, 22:30
Cant wait for pc3.Be all this over again :livid:

Dynomight Motorsports
25-01-2018, 22:33
Look, I want PC2 to succeed and there in lies the frustration. PC2is the closest thing Console users have to a racing sim. And yet this thing is horrible on the console, and told that the consoles just can’t run it by members of the PC community. Multiplayer is dead on console. Even though I don’t play offline I hear AI is horrible. So it’s a lose lose for customers. But an official known issue list would go a long way to create some HOPE of a better experience in the future, or simply bin the game and never look back.

V3nom
25-01-2018, 22:36
Yes people one of them is me!:eagerness:
And the respective bug is about the chat volume issue. It kind of gets more annoying with every wednesday and saturday that passes(league races).
The experience gets pretty bad when you can't in fact hear your engine at all.
What annoys me the post is that such an issue is unbelievable that it even got through until now and I never saw something like this in any other game.

@jetsun
When the pit stops, setups and the LiveTrack 3.0 are not working as intended in a sim racer half a year after release it all leaves a bitter taste on my tounge.

Roushman624
25-01-2018, 22:38
I know of at least two of you who got a chip on their shoulder for not getting what they want immediately and were very understanding upto that moment...
Funny how ones perception of things can change by the flick of a switch...

Konan I wasn't even talking to Ian and he decided to ban me. Is that worth it?
I didn't say anything bad about the game or SMS except the game is full of bugs again.

Konan
25-01-2018, 22:43
Konan I wasn't even talking to Ian and he decided to ban me. Is that worth it?

If Ian bans someone he has his reasons...usually he hands out permabans though so he must have thought about just giving you a timeout...and weren't you warned/infracted before said timeout?

Edit: I just checked...you were warned/infracted five times in a months period...that's more leeway than most get...

Roushman624
25-01-2018, 22:48
If Ian bans someone he has his reasons...usually he hands out permabans though so he must have thought about just giving you a timeout...and weren't you warned/infracted before said timeout?

Edit: I just checked...you were warned/infracted five times in a months period...that's more leeway than most get...
Because unlike others I actually care for this game and company. I want it to be the best game possible.

Konan
25-01-2018, 22:52
Because unlike others I actually care for this game and company. I want it to be the best game possible.

I get that and it's not like we don't understand your (plural) frustrations...it's the going around in circles that really gets to us...we know the issues...SMS knows the issues...we don't know however if/when they'll be fixed...
We=mods

Roushman624
25-01-2018, 22:56
I get that and it's not like we don't understand your (plural) frustrations...it's the going around in circles that really gets to us...we know the issues...SMS knows the issues...we don't know however if/when they'll be fixed...
We=mods

SMS are in a bad position about the known issues list. People(us) want to see them and if SMS show the list and there are many bugs it looks bad on them. It's a lose lose situation.

Konan
25-01-2018, 23:00
SMS are in a bad position about the known issues list. People(us) want to see them and if SMS show the list and there are many bugs it looks bad on them. It's a lose lose situation.

I don't know what happened with the plans for a known issues list...last i heard was Ian telling the team to make one...
Like i said...what SMS decides internal we don't know about so we can't tell you anything either.

Jetsun
25-01-2018, 23:16
@jetsun
When the pit stops, setups and the LiveTrack 3.0 are not working as intended in a sim racer half a year after release it all leaves a bitter taste on my tounge.
I'm practicing focusing on sweet rather than bitter, I had enough of bitter, trust me, and one day I realised the less I give it awareness the more it evaporates. So when I see bitter coming in I shift to sweet, easier with practice.
And this alone improved my whole live and my relations with people.

I'm not a sim racer yet but I certainly have in my hand the game that I would have died for as a kid :)

poirqc
25-01-2018, 23:30
I'm practicing focusing on sweet rather than bitter, I had enough of bitter, trust me, and one day I realised the less I give it awareness the more it evaporates. So when I see bitter coming in I shift to sweet, easier with practice.
And this alone improved my whole live and my relations with people.

I'm not a sim racer yet but I certainly have in my hand the game that I would have died for as a kid :)

You race a virtual car = you sim race = you're a sim racer. :)

Jetsun
25-01-2018, 23:32
Still a bit off topic sorry, but there is a saying by Bruce Lee that I like very much 'Be water my friend!' One of the meaning of that is that one have to adapt to any situation, doing the opposite, trying to adapt the situation to oneself always bring about troubles, for oneself and others.
If you can do something to ameliorate a situation, by all means do it, if nothing can be done accept it as it is, frustations disappear only by doing so, you're the boss of what's going on in your mind.
Not sure to be really clear here, but doing my best and that's what reading all those complains inspire me right now.

Sum Dixon-Ear
25-01-2018, 23:55
... there is a saying by Bruce Lee that I like very much 'Be water my friend!'...

There's actually a thread about that very thing in the Xbox subforum about that puddle at Bathurst... or was it 'Be my friend water!'?

Can't remember now tbh... lol.

N0body Of The Goat
26-01-2018, 07:48
For me, it's not pCARS2 fatigue, it's fatigue with the whole car sim genre.

My wheel developed an intermittent issue during pre-release testing, where instead of having 450 degrees of rotation left and right of centre, one way (left?) the range of motion finished at 90 degrees. Trying to drive with just ~180 degree lock-to-lock was infuriating, but every now and again, I would randomly try PC2 (plus other sims in my Steam library) and 900 degrees would work again... But it's very sporadic.

I got too emotionally charged during PC1, both pre- and post-release, so I was always planning to cut back on how much time I spent testing PC2 but the wheel issue (and no desire to spend ~£200+ on a new one) forced my hand further.

These days, the game I play most by a long way is Rocket League, mixing up playing Platinum level Standard 3v3 for competitive play and Rumble for casual chaotic fun. But the biggest change is that I now typically spend more time per week cycling up categorised hills for fitness both outdoor and indoor, than I do gaming, over the past year.

Sankyo
26-01-2018, 08:13
... Even though I don’t play offline I hear AI is horrible.
That's one of those problems. You hear something, so it must be true. I can now tell you that the AI isn't horrible at all, but very enjoyable if you race them as you would race real people online. So who are you going to believe now? ;)

MaXyM
26-01-2018, 08:24
While I'm negative in some fields I have to confirm that AI is not so bad. I often use them as cannon fodder while practising before league race. Of course there are some flaws like AI is too slow in some corners but it really doesn't matter - people online sometimes behaves unpredictable too. 'Horrible' is way exaggerated in this case. I think they behave pretty decent. But also I don't spend a lot of time with them so it's possible I missed some scenarios.

Konan
26-01-2018, 08:29
While I'm negative in some fields I have to confirm that AI is not so bad. I often use them as cannon fodder while practising before league race. Of course there are some flaws like AI is too slow in some corners but it really doesn't matter - people online sometimes behaves unpredictable too. 'Horrible' is way exaggerated in this case. I would case they behave pretty decent. But also I don't spend a lot of time with them so it's possible I missed some scenarios.

I did and they are pretty damn good and according to Doug they will even be better SMSoon :cool:

Jetsun
26-01-2018, 08:29
You race a virtual car = you sim race = you're a sim racer. :)

cool, now i can brag :D


There's actually a thread about that very thing in the Xbox subforum about that puddle at Bathurst... or was it 'Be my friend water!'?

Can't remember now tbh... lol.

haha seen that one too, now I'm in process of 'Be my friend AI, show me the way' ;)

V3nom
26-01-2018, 08:42
Yeah, I had the greatest of fun with the AI in the formula rookie. Just put the aggression at maximum and the difficulty according to your pace.
If you nail these two sliders then the race is gonna be insanely fun.
The only things that annoy me just a bit is the inconsistency of the ai pace from track to track and that the ai don't race each other that much.

Cristi
26-01-2018, 09:02
I did and they are pretty damn good and according to Doug they will even be better SMSoon :cool:

They feel like real drivers to me. They will bump into you, they will cut in front of you, they will be unpredictable. Only thing I want is a way to make them a bit more professional when you want to, but it sounds like that's coming in the next update. Only good things to look forwards to.

Kitt
26-01-2018, 09:08
AI certainly arn't horrible but I wish they would race each other more and make more mistakes [especially on a wet track] and have some DNF's

Invincible
26-01-2018, 09:11
AI certainly arn't horrible but I wish they would race each other more and make more mistakes [especially on a wet track] and have some DNF's

There are some errors and DNF's. More overtakes will come in the next patch, according to Doug.

V3nom
26-01-2018, 09:22
Hmm I never had any DNF's in career mode but I do see errors almost every race. (~10 hours playtime)

Kitt
26-01-2018, 09:23
I must be picking the wrong career races then cause I've yet to see one DNF in around 50 hours on career

Konan
26-01-2018, 09:25
Depends on the length of the race also...

V3nom
26-01-2018, 09:29
Anyway I'm eagerly waiting for patch 4 before I go on with my career. Doug has teased some massive goodies coming to us in this part of the game.

sas5320
26-01-2018, 11:46
While I'm negative in some fields I have to confirm that AI is not so bad. I often use them as cannon fodder while practising before league race. Of course there are some flaws like AI is too slow in some corners but it really doesn't matter - people online sometimes behaves unpredictable too. 'Horrible' is way exaggerated in this case. I think they behave pretty decent. But also I don't spend a lot of time with them so it's possible I missed some scenarios.

In they dry they are ok, maybe even better than ok. But mix in some weather and things get unbalanced. Also anything that requires pit stop or strategy is still the weak spot but some improvements coming in patch4 mid-fed so we'll have this discussion again 1 month.

lokid
26-01-2018, 12:23
has any sim really have a working ai , in wet weather?

Zaskarspants
26-01-2018, 12:26
has any sim really have a working ai , in wet weather?

Do many other sims even have weather to bother their AI?

RoccoTTS
26-01-2018, 12:32
Do many other sims even have weather to bother their AI?

The only other sim racing game that has rain is Rfactor 2.

lokid
26-01-2018, 12:37
..or of you want to look deeper.

Race07 + DLC
GTR 2

i think GTR 1

Sankyo
26-01-2018, 13:12
But AFAIK in those games rain is simply reduced track grip, and AI just runs slower with the same reduction factor.

cpcdem
26-01-2018, 14:03
Yeah, when people are complaining about the AI, I am wondering in what game they have found it to be any better. In the 4 other sim/semi-sim games I have tried (semi-sim is Grid Autosport for example), the AI is really bad, behaving in ways that does not make sense. I am not doing much offline with PCARS, but the few races I did with AI in both the first game and the new one looked pretty decent to me. Yes, their performance is unbalanced between cars/tracks but this is easily adjustable...I haven't tried rFactor though, for which many people say its AI is decent.

Asturbo
26-01-2018, 14:05
Yesterday in a race I was behind one player that has a 12” penalty in my hud. I finished the race 4” behind him so I suppose that I’ll be ahead. But in the results screen, I was still behind. He told me that his penalty was only 2”, and that’s why he was ahead. We captured both results screen and some of us saw that he has 12” penalty and others 2”, but the penalization really applied was 2”. The 4th player also received a 23” penalty during the race, but in the results, he only was penalized with 3”.

So ATM we can’t trust in any information about penalties received during the game. Even your own penalties could be wrong. At the end of the race everything can happen in the results screen. Any fight for position, could be useless by this factor.

The pit stops are also wrong because all of us stopped 1 time, and in the list there are players who didn’t stop. And the list of players who didn’t stop is different in the result screen of different players as you can see in the capture.

This will give terrible headaches to the community admins and many controversies with the players, because who knows whats is the fair penalization.

Hope it could be fixed, because it will be a nightmare in serious competitions.

249139

Cristi
26-01-2018, 14:05
It might not be a full on sim, but I consider F1 2017 to be a good target in terms of AI and all things related (competitiveness, strategy, etc). Obviously, the difference between PC2 and F1 is huge, and it is true that it only has one type of car, in one motorsport, on a few tracks. But it still makes for a good target, I think.

MaXyM
26-01-2018, 14:24
But AFAIK in those games rain is simply reduced track grip, and AI just runs slower with the same reduction factor.

In GTR1/GTR2 there was bestline drying.

V3nom
26-01-2018, 14:25
@Asturbo

I can confirm the problems with pit stops. We have similar headaches in our league races. Another pain in the A is getting DQ'ed by not readying on the ready screen. Also problems with the pit strategies as well as setups.

I suggest you to create a new thread or pm a mod with the penalty issue as I think it has not been reported yet and you have viable evidence.
Would be a pity if this issue gets missed by the mods.

V3nom
26-01-2018, 14:28
In GTR1/GTR2 there was bestline drying.

I am pretty sure those games do not emulate a full tire flex with different materials and other substances as rain getting in between the tire and the track causing less grip.

Sankyo
26-01-2018, 14:28
In GTR1/GTR2 there was bestline drying.
But it was the pre-defined racing line, not the line that the cars actually drive.

Asturbo
26-01-2018, 14:33
I suggest you to create a new thread or pm a mod with the penalty issue as I think it has not been reported yet and you have viable evidence.
Would be a pity if this issue gets missed by the mods.
I think that it was previously reported, but I don't know if they have evidences. I have captures and the saved race from the game.
I don't like creating more bug's threads, especially if this issue is already known. If mods consider appropiate, no problem for me to starting a new thread.

MaXyM
26-01-2018, 14:34
But it was the pre-defined racing line, not the line that the cars actually drive.

Yes, it's true. But does it really matter?
AI did know the best line and its properties (dryness, temperature etc) as well as do know today. It's question of calibrating of behaviour in regard to existing conditions.

V3nom
26-01-2018, 14:34
May be, I never read of such a bug.

Sankyo
26-01-2018, 14:34
I think that it was previously reported, but I don't know if they have evidences. I have captures and the postrace replay saved.
I don't like creating bug's threads, speccially if they are allready known. If the mods consider, no problem for me to starting a new thread if needed.
Yes please create a new thread with all relevant info in it, that's easier referencing for the devs.

Asturbo
26-01-2018, 14:36
Yes please create a new thread with all relevant info in it, that's easier referencing for the devs.
OK. Thanks Remco.

Edit: Posted here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60507-Penaties-incorrectly-applied-shown-(multiplayer)&p=1467245&viewfull=1#post1467245)

Sankyo
26-01-2018, 14:37
Yes, it's true. But does it really matter?

Funny, I remember discussions that rF2 was a proper sim because it didn't do pre-baked drying lines but real drying lines. Therefore pC2 had to have real dynamic drying lines as well to be a proper sim. Now we're going the other way because it fits better to make arguments in a different discussion :)

MaXyM
26-01-2018, 14:44
I have to ask you again, so what?
Do you drifting fro original question intentionally or just cannot catch a pace of posts?
Please go back to previous page (post #151) - you will see nobody is talking about real-sim-eness.
There was a question about sims with AI driving in wet conditions. no more or less.

bigair199
26-01-2018, 15:43
Will you guys quit it with the conspiracy theories please...

How are these "conspiracy theories"? As one gentleman pointed out earlier this is due to a void of information and if you choose to let that void of information continue, especially if you have the necessary info to fill that void then you are just as responsible for any idea's that stem from that void of information as anyone else. If your only answer to these concerns is to kill threads, remain silent or try to pass them off as irrelevant then it only paints the game and its representatives in a worse light with us, it's customer's. Take my major concern for instance and that's the major problems with the online mulitplayer specifically LT3.0 synching, pit stops, disconnects from server and cars going a lap down at the start of the race for no reason. These are all admittedly known issue's for a long time and compromise the entire online multiplayer part of the game, especially for console users.

Konan
26-01-2018, 15:43
I have to ask you again, so what?
Do you drifting fro original question intentionally or just cannot catch a pace of posts?
Please go back to previous page (post #151) - you will see nobody is talking about real-sim-eness.
There was a question about sims with AI driving in wet conditions. no more or less.


to bother their AI?

...implies the AI acting upon weather conditions...not drive a set line so to me Remco's answer is valid...

Konan
26-01-2018, 15:52
How are these "conspiracy theories"? As one gentleman pointed out earlier this is due to a void of information and if you choose to let that void of information continue, especially if you have the necessary info to fill that void then you are just as responsible for any idea's that stem from that void of information as anyone else. If your only answer to these concerns is to kill threads, remain silent or try to pass them off as irrelevant then it only paints the game and its representatives in a worse light with us, it's customer's. Take my major concern for instance and that's the major problems with the online mulitplayer specifically LT3.0 synching, pit stops, disconnects from server and cars going a lap down at the start of the race for no reason. These are all admittedly known issue's for a long time and compromise the entire online multiplayer part of the game, especially for console users.

There are people who can live with the fact that there is little to no info...those who can't usually resort to negativity and start making up stuff without even knowing what's what...hence conspiracy theories.
No one is denying the issues you described but no one also said they wouldn't get resolved...

MaXyM
26-01-2018, 16:04
...implies the AI acting upon weather conditions...not drive a set line so to me Remco's answer is valid...

Since AI is not in fact artificial intelligence, implementation of weather with its changes doesn't really matter.
In both cases: GTR1 and PC2 AI has to adapt to conditions by applying a math to track data received from the game engine. From this point of view it really doesn't matter if racing line is fixed to predefined bestline (GTR1 case) or dynamic (PC2)

bigair199
26-01-2018, 16:08
There are people who can live with the fact that there is little to no info...those who can't usually resort to negativity and start making up stuff without even knowing what's what...hence conspiracy theories.
No one is denying the issues you described but no one also said they wouldn't get resolved...

I appreciate that but you never said they WOULD get resolved either though, you never said anything that's the problem here. lol When someone posts info that states these were known issues before release and it was known that a console wasn't capable of running it properly, we ask if there is any validity to it and you guys pass it off as conspiracy theory it makes you look like your hiding something. Just simply say it isn't true and that it is a fixable issue, if it isn't true.
Let me ask this then, is the next patch going to address any of the issue's I pointed out?

Cristi
26-01-2018, 16:10
Since AI is not in fact artificial intelligence, implementation of weather with its changes doesn't really matter.
In both cases: GTR1 and PC2 AI has to adapt to conditions by applying a math to track data received from the game engine. From this point of view it really doesn't matter if racing line is fixed to predefined bestline (GTR1 case) or dynamic (PC2)

And how exactly do you know that applies to PC2? For all you know, each AI car is running a neural network in the background.

Konan
26-01-2018, 16:16
I appreciate that but you never said they WOULD get resolved either though, you never said anything that's the problem here. lol When someone posts info that states these were known issues before release and it was known that a console wasn't capable of running it properly, we ask if there is any validity to it and you guys pass it off as conspiracy theory it makes you look like your hiding something. Just simply say it isn't true and that it is a fixable issue, if it isn't true.
Let me ask this then, is the next patch going to address any of the issue's I pointed out?

I genuinly don't know...and that is not hiding something,it's the fact that i really don't know.
They are reported and known but i don't have any inside information...what i do have though is good faith...that doesn't help you much i know...

Trenchkato
26-01-2018, 16:28
I've got to say that it's fatigue. I got the game upon release on the OG Xbox and while the past 2 patches have made it more bearable. There are still glaring problems for me with how the car handles during practice and qualifying and during a race. Makes the game unplayable I'm hoping that patch for fixes this.

sas5320
26-01-2018, 16:28
Take my major concern for instance and that's the major problems with the online mulit-player specifically LT3.0 synching, pit stops, disconnects from server and cars going a lap down at the start of the race for no reason.
here's your official response about LT 3.0 synching from their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/projectcarsgame/posts/1523993947716435) 1 hour ago. This is a ridiculous reply. They are dodging this problem (and others) now i think. In plain daylight. Caveat Emptor, let's hope/pray Ian "allows them" continue fixing the game and not move on to "other projects (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60392-Formula-Renault-Career-Nurburgring-Unnecessary-Pit-Stops&p=1466557#post1466557)"

249143

bigair199
26-01-2018, 16:39
I genuinly don't know...and that is not hiding something,it's the fact that i really don't know.
They are reported and known but i don't have any inside information...what i do have though is good faith...that doesn't help you much i know...


You know what Konan I appreciate the hell out of that though! That's better than what we have got up till this point so thank you. I know I have raised hell in other posts and threads but i'm old school and would rather have the truth straight forward than beating around the bush. We have a large league that has basically been brought to a halt because these issue's compromise the races which is why I have been so persistent in trying to get answers. Now I'm not saying that if it is determined that these problems can't be fixed that I won't raise hell but we will cross that bridge if we get to that point.

Cristi
26-01-2018, 16:52
I've got to say that it's fatigue. I got the game upon release on the OG Xbox and while the past 2 patches have made it more bearable. There are still glaring problems for me with how the car handles during practice and qualifying and during a race. Makes the game unplayable I'm hoping that patch for fixes this.

Which problems, exactly? Are you sure your tyre pressures are correct?

cpcdem
26-01-2018, 16:57
here's your official response about LT 3.0 synching from their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/projectcarsgame/posts/1523993947716435) 1 hour ago. This is a ridiculous reply.[/URL]"


Come on guys, don't see black everywhere, give them at least the benefit of the doubt. Do you think that the guy handling their facebook page can really understand what the OP meant by "sync issues with LT"? Sync with what? I and you know what he means, because we've followed this ussie closely, but you can't t expect the facebook guy to know by heart all bug descriptions..I think he just genuinely asked for more info/clarification.

ant1897
26-01-2018, 17:09
Come on guys, don't see black everywhere, give them at least the benefit of the doubt. Do you think that the guy handling their facebook page can really understand what the OP meant by "sync issues with LT"? Sync with what? I and you know what he means, because we've followed this ussie closely, but you can't t expect the facebook guy to know by heart all bug descriptions..I think he just genuinely asked for more info/clarification.

lol yeah, its probably an entirely different team running social media/marketing. I wouldnt put too much value on what goes on through their fb account.

Nathan Bell
26-01-2018, 18:45
here's your official response about LT 3.0 synching from their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/projectcarsgame/posts/1523993947716435) 1 hour ago. This is a ridiculous reply. They are dodging this problem (and others) now i think. In plain daylight. Caveat Emptor, let's hope/pray Ian "allows them" continue fixing the game and not move on to "other projects (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60392-Formula-Renault-Career-Nurburgring-Unnecessary-Pit-Stops&p=1466557#post1466557)"

249143

I replied genuinely asking the guy for more information. I report these issues directly back to QA. QA tell me its status (Known, repro'd, fixed etc), or... they'll ask me to gather X info, or Y. I don't directly work on the game, I don't work in QA, I don't fix bugs, so I apologise that I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of everything. Who knew AAA titles were quite complex?

Turns out the issue is known and confirmed fixed in the coming update. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions and assume we're trying to "dodge" the issue. Though in future I will liaise with QA first before enquiring for more info, to avoid confusion.

bigair199
26-01-2018, 18:48
I replied genuinely asking the guy for more information. I report these issues directly back to QA. QA tell me its status (Known, repro'd, fixed etc), or... they'll ask me to gather X info, or Y. I don't directly work on the game, I don't work in QA, I don't fix bugs, so I apologise that I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of everything. Who knew AAA titles were quite complex?

Turns out the issue is known and confirmed fixed in the coming update. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions and assume we're trying to "dodge" the issue. Though in future I will liaise with QA first before enquiring for more info, to avoid confusion in the future.


One last thing Nathan, is that for all platforms or just PC? Thank you by the way for the information

ant1897
26-01-2018, 18:50
I replied genuinely asking the guy for more information. I report these issues directly back to QA. QA tell me its status (Known, repro'd, fixed etc), or... they'll ask me to gather X info, or Y. I don't directly work on the game, I don't work in QA, I don't fix bugs, so I apologise that I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of everything. Who knew AAA titles were quite complex?

Turns out the issue is known and confirmed fixed in the coming update. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions and assume we're trying to "dodge" the issue. Though in future I will liaise with QA first before enquiring for more info, to avoid confusion in the future.

Thank you very much Nathan. Really appreciate the update on this. Happy to hear this is getting fixed in 4.0. Can't wait to race in the rain again!!!!

Edit: seems like it was more efficient getting an answer through facebook than the actual forum. Will go through that channel in the future! :cool:

MaximusN
26-01-2018, 19:00
Come on guys, don't see black everywhere, give them at least the benefit of the doubt. Do you think that the guy handling their facebook page can really understand what the OP meant by "sync issues with LT"? Sync with what? I and you know what he means, because we've followed this ussie closely, but you can't t expect the facebook guy to know by heart all bug descriptions..I think he just genuinely asked for more info/clarification.
Even worse if you assume it's problem A and say yes, and it's actually something else the messenger and his team is the one to blame. I'm in IT and customers mix up or even throw together problems without knowing the consequence of that. So first thing to do is find out what it is they actually mean, even if it sounds obvious.

If anything if you ask an incomplete question and you get yes for an answer(without any request for clarification): start worrying.

Nathan Bell
26-01-2018, 19:01
One last thing Nathan, is that for all platforms or just PC? Thank you by the way for the information

For all platforms, yes.

John Hargreaves
26-01-2018, 19:18
For me, it's not pCARS2 fatigue, it's fatigue with the whole car sim genre.

My wheel developed an intermittent issue during pre-release testing, where instead of having 450 degrees of rotation left and right of centre, one way (left?) the range of motion finished at 90 degrees. Trying to drive with just ~180 degree lock-to-lock was infuriating, but every now and again, I would randomly try PC2 (plus other sims in my Steam library) and 900 degrees would work again... But it's very sporadic.

I got too emotionally charged during PC1, both pre- and post-release, so I was always planning to cut back on how much time I spent testing PC2 but the wheel issue (and no desire to spend ~£200+ on a new one) forced my hand further.

These days, the game I play most by a long way is Rocket League, mixing up playing Platinum level Standard 3v3 for competitive play and Rumble for casual chaotic fun. But the biggest change is that I now typically spend more time per week cycling up categorised hills for fitness both outdoor and indoor, than I do gaming, over the past year.

I wondered where you'd gone :confused:

Asturbo
26-01-2018, 19:25
Turns out the issue is known and confirmed fixed in the coming update.
AWESOME !!!

Congrats to the blue team and to all of us.

ant1897
26-01-2018, 19:31
This made my day lol.

Konan
26-01-2018, 19:36
See what a little faith can do...? :cool:

Jezza819
26-01-2018, 19:49
I have a Fanatec wheel and patch 3.0 took away kerb and road feel so I've been dealing with sort of a numb game since then. Until 4.0 comes out and hopefully fixes that problem, I don't have much to post about.

ant1897
26-01-2018, 19:54
See what a little faith can do...? :cool:

hehe touché.

Now onto the next order of business...

When is patch 4.0 coming out?! lol

Nathan Bell
26-01-2018, 19:56
hehe touché.

Now onto the next order of business...

When is patch 4.0 coming out?! lol


You should ask sas5320, he seems to know a lot.

cpcdem
26-01-2018, 20:02
Even worse if you assume it's problem A and say yes, and it's actually something else the messenger and his team is the one to blame. I'm in IT and customers mix up or even throw together problems without knowing the consequence of that. So first thing to do is find out what it is they actually mean, even if it sounds obvious.

If anything if you ask an incomplete question and you get yes for an answer(without any request for clarification): start worrying.

Yeah, absolutely agreed, also been through such situations for the most part of my work life!

Btw, just realized I called the CEO's son "the facebook guy"! Ehhmm, errrrr, ooops....:)

David Slute
26-01-2018, 20:05
In response to the OP.
Talking to fellow sim racers, most the responses were the same.
"Like SMS past 2 titles, tons of potential but too many bugs and too many unfinished aspects of the game at launch to make running leagues worth while. Most of my friends have returned to other titles that are stable and polished for league racing.

ant1897
26-01-2018, 20:07
In response to the OP.
Talking to fellow sim racers, most the responses were the same.
"Like SMS past 2 titles, tons of potential but too many bugs and too many unfinished aspects of the game at launch to make running leagues worth while. Most of my friends have returned to other titles that are stable and polished for league racing.

Yes, but if this LT3.0 sync issue gets squashed in 4.0, and the pit stop tire pressure bug as well.. we've got a damn good platform for league racing.

David Slute
26-01-2018, 20:32
Yes, but if this LT3.0 sync issue gets squashed in 4.0, and the pit stop tire pressure bug as well.. we've got a damn good platform for league racing.

I totally agree!
But until its fixed....it is what it is.
I for one got hooked on the rally x aspect and is what kept me around.....the physics, content and live track are top notch but the mp aspect for leagues is terrible as you can only race which I feel is the reason theres zero community races online.
No practice, no heats, no quali, no session point tracking.
GRC content mixed with WRX using the same session setup even tho they they have slightly different rules.
Id like to see seperate rules for WRX and GRC.
Ex. Cant take the joker on the opening lap GRC
10 cars per race GRC option instead of the current max 6.

Ive raced pretty much everyday since release for a few hrs...and every day I check the rally x mp lobbies just to find zero lobbies....honestly can say I think I can count on one hand the amount of hosted rally x lobbies I ve seen.

Truelly hope SMS gives the rally x more love and properly finnishes the mp race day setup. :)

sas5320
26-01-2018, 21:10
You should ask sas5320, he seems to know a lot.
Hang on while i check the Facebook page ;)

It's unfortunate that i had to basically humiliate Nathan here to get an answer to this topic. Many people before me asked much more nicely for answer many times in the past days/weeks. Lets tighten up the comms here on this forum please, the primary comms forum with the community that still cares about the game. And thanks to Nathan for investigating and responding, however at least a few other people at SMS could have come here and provided an acknowledgement and response earlier. Who provided Nathan the info for example?

Konan
26-01-2018, 21:15
Hang on while i check the Facebook page ;)

It's unfortunate that i had to basically humiliate Nathan here to get an answer to this topic. Many people before me asked much more nicely for answer many times in the past days/weeks. Lets tighten up the comms here on this forum please, the primary comms forum with the community that still cares about the game. And thanks to Nathan for investigating and responding, however at least a few other people at SMS could have come here and provided an acknowledgement and response earlier. Who provided Nathan the info for example?

That's where you're wrong though...nobody from SMS NEEDED to reply...not even Nathan.
It shows courtesy and customer care that someone CHOSE to comment...no matter who It was...

Jetsun
26-01-2018, 21:40
It's unfortunate that i had to basically humiliate Nathan here to get an answer to this topic.
"This is a ridiculous reply. They are dodging this problem (and others) now i think. In plain daylight." : you are more humiliating yourself here, not only you didn't get the Facebook reply right and made a fuzz out of your wrong interpretation, but you don't even admit your error, mimimum would have been low profile, and even better: apologies... but no, you continue to teach people... certainly not the way to go man!

Dynomight Motorsports
26-01-2018, 22:26
Thank you Nathan.. for posting. You give us all hope for a better day of racing in the near future. That's all we really need sometimes.. is Hope!!!

Konan
26-01-2018, 22:41
Thank you Nathan.. for posting. You give us all hope for a better day of racing in the near future. That's all we really need sometimes.. is Hope!!!

...you're better off with faith...less stressfull :p

AEIDOLONE
26-01-2018, 23:21
Yes, but if this LT3.0 sync issue gets squashed in 4.0, and the pit stop tire pressure bug as well.. we've got a damn good platform for league racing.

Tire pressure bug?

ermo
26-01-2018, 23:31
Re. LT3.0 not syncing 100% when not connected to a DS on a LAN:

I may have worded this ambiguously. AIUI, the design spec calls for the clients to eventually (i.e. within some short-ish timeframe) see roughly the same state as each other. It may be that client B and C see slightly different amounts of dirt pulled onto the track by client A, but both client B and C *should* see dirt on the track with the current LT3.0 implementation.

Obviously, the most accurate LT3.0 state in this case is maintained by client A, which needs to somehow share this state with the other clients in a timely manner while incorporating *their* respective states into its own LT3.0 state. When you look at it this way, it is clear that the various local LT3.0 states will eventually converge, but that they might not always be 100% identical at any specific point in time (though they should naturally aim to be 90+% identical for competitive racing to be at all feasible).

For client B and C to see *exactly* the same amount of dirt on the track as client A in real time, they'd all need to be connected to a DS on a LAN in order to satisfy the bandwidth/latency/CPU resource requirements AIUI (as in: this was the answer I got when I last asked about it, which is a while ago now).

But I'm paraphrasing from memory here, so please take my musings with a grain of salt or ten. If LT3.0 doesn't synch *at all* for some people, that's obviously a bug somewhere and not part of the design spec. :)

ant1897
26-01-2018, 23:44
Re. LT3.0 not syncing 100% when not connected to a DS on a LAN:

I may have worded this ambiguously. AIUI, the design spec calls for the clients to eventually (i.e. within some short-ish timeframe) see roughly the same state as each other. It may be that client B and C see slightly different amounts of dirt pulled onto the track by client A, but both client B and C *should* see dirt on the track with the current LT3.0 implementation.

For client B and C to see *exactly* the same amount of dirt on the track in real time, they'd need to be connected to a DS on a LAN in order to satisfy the bandwidth/latency/CPU resource requirements AIUI (as in: this was the answer I got when I last asked about, which is a while ago now).

But I'm paraphrasing from memory here, so please take my musings with a grain of salt or ten. If LT3.0 doesn't synch *at all* for some people, that's obviously a bug somewhere and not part of the design spec. :)

And that’s ok. A little out of sync is understandable considering the amount of data that needs to be synced across many clients. But what we’ve experienced is extreme. Most drivers on full wets, affected by puddles and a slick track, and 1-2 guys lapping around 4-5 seconds faster on slicks.

senna94f1
27-01-2018, 05:30
...we banned everyone...:p

That they did lol maybe they didn't come back after time out,

In fairness must of the bugs have been soughted and pcars2 is very playable now, hence most people are happy and are enjoying the racing,

This instalment is very hard to race but with a few hours practice and assists off you soon learn your braking points and will get better.

Konan you deserved that as that was funny.

Jetsun
27-01-2018, 05:31
...you're better off with faith...less stressfull :p
And looking at ermo's signature, one can grab some good reason to develop faith, looks like they are walking their talking :)

"We respond to well constructed criticism, good ideas which are properly described and thought through, and ideas that will benefit the whole community, not a vocal minority.
Do not repeat requests, be patient and polite, and have some confidence in our ongoing desire to improve the game for all users, which we have clearly and ably demonstrated in the past"

rosko
27-01-2018, 12:22
Can i ask if they will ever allow us to save volume/tone/fx per car? Or are devs happy with things as they are?

sas5320
27-01-2018, 15:10
"This is a ridiculous reply. They are dodging this problem (and others) now i think. In plain daylight." : you are more humiliating yourself here, not only you didn't get the Facebook reply right and made a fuzz out of your wrong interpretation, but you don't even admit your error, mimimum would have been low profile, and even better: apologies... but no, you continue to teach people... certainly not the way to go man!
And it was due to my "error" that the (remianing) player base now has the answer to this significant online problem with their #1 game feature for the past 4 months. We tried the nice routes and they provided nothing, sometimes other methods are required for results. You are all welcome and hope it doesnt need to happen again.

Jetsun
27-01-2018, 15:29
hope it doesnt need to happen again.
Me too, there's no need.
Let us all put a bit of trust in a team that seems to know exactly what they are doing and walk their talk, I mean this game is already quite unique if we look at the big picture :)

Konan
27-01-2018, 16:51
And it was due to my "error" that the (remianing) player base now has the answer to this significant online problem with their #1 game feature for the past 4 months. We tried the nice routes and they provided nothing, sometimes other methods are required for results. You are all welcome and hope it doesnt need to happen again.

Just to make it clear: you didn't set a precedent here...
Just because you got away with it once doesn't mean your entitled to do it again...
The leniency only stretches so far....

John Hargreaves
27-01-2018, 17:16
Konan, you have been so patient moderating on this thread, despite the clear joy and enthusiasm some people have for moaning. Hang in there mate you are doing a great job :cool:

Konan
27-01-2018, 17:21
Thanks for that John...really appreciate it :cool:

Trenchkato
28-01-2018, 05:03
Which problems, exactly? Are you sure your tyre pressures are correct?

Yes the tire pressure is correct patch 3 fixed that issue for me. The problem no have is the car is generally more squirrelly and not as confidence inspiring with the same settings from quali.

Cristi
28-01-2018, 05:09
Yes the tire pressure is correct patch 3 fixed that issue for me. The problem no have is the car is generally more squirrelly and not as confidence inspiring with the same settings from quali.

Are you sure about the tyre pressures? I'm insisting cause I have the same issue. I set tyre pressures in quali so the tyres have the correct hot pressure after I drive them for a while. But maybe because I can't drive the car that hard, the tyres are at their lower temperature limit. Even so, that's fine when I drive. But at race start, the game heats up the tyres and brakes to the correct temperature, which leads to high tyre pressures. The car is a bit slippery for a lap or two until the tyres cool down a bit. Double check your pressures in quali and at race start.

Boneboys
28-01-2018, 06:25
Virtual tyre warmers I expect :stupid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcfArvRvMwA

Cristi
28-01-2018, 07:09
Virtual tyre warmers I expect :stupid:

Well, yes. But this is an issue that is very difficult to fix, and I doubt it should even be fixed. The game warms up your tyres to the optimum temperature. It's ultimately my fault for not being able to warm up the tyres enough during normal (form me) racing.

Although, a more realistic option is available. Instead of warming the tyres to the optimal temperature, make them somewhat cooler. Tyre warmers don't hear tyres that much, and even if they did, they would still cool down a bit by the time you start racing.

MaXyM
28-01-2018, 09:10
or set up presure for the race a way giving you uptimal one regardles too low temp