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View Full Version : Formula Renault - Career - Nurburgring - Unnecessary Pit Stops



Richie Padalino
22-01-2018, 16:32
Okay, in the above part of the career for Formula Renault, all the AI pit after one lap, but then pit again after about 3 or 4. Basically ruins any competitiveness completely.

What are they doing? I presume they are starting on wets, as that's what the default tries to do with myself, but then why the multiple pit stops?

Another question here is, why are all cars set to wets, when it is quote clearly dry, and is for 8 laps?

Also, this lead me to another question, how can you find out what tyres the AI have changed to, if they do in a race?

Also, I really think there needs to be a different option for changing a pit strategy, other than messing around with the d-pad when you are trying to race. But I guess that's a separate point.

g.stew
22-01-2018, 18:35
Doesn't this race start to rain after a couple laps? I remember it starting lightly at first and then continuing to the end.

Egg90
22-01-2018, 21:36
I just did a GT4 career race at Oschersleben. Qualifying was in light rain and it was raining at the start of the race. All AI pitted after 1 or 2 laps and the track got pretty wet in parts by the end.
Were they all on slicks thinking it would clear up even though it had been raining all day?! Also looking at the replay they went very, very slow into pits and seemed to spend ages in there.

As it happened I came past the pit exit just as p2-p4 were exiting, so even though I was a lap in front I had some pretty good racing for the remainder. They didn't want to let me past and were intent on unlapping themselves lol. Good fun anyway!

Richie Padalino
23-01-2018, 06:04
Doesn't this race start to rain after a couple laps? I remember it starting lightly at first and then continuing to the end.

Looks dry to me, no rain drops. Weather says heavy cloud. I can start on slicks with zero problems. So if it is supposed to be wet, they've not done a very good job of it.

It does actually start raining after about 8 laps.

Even if it were slightly damp to start with, so they need to change from wets to slicks immediately, why the second change two laps later?

It'd be nice to be able to tell what tyres they are actually on, how do I check this?

g33k hack3rs
23-01-2018, 14:52
I've seen similar behavior where the AI start on slicks, change to wet, then back to slicks when they could've stayed on wet for the duration of the race. Never really confirmed visually that they changed but it was a career race that started with light rain and then got quite wet before drying for the last 3 laps. Anybody with that forecast would've started on wets and remained on wets since the drying line is barely forming by the end at I did see a few AI cars sliding off on the wet track so really wasn't risky to stay on wet.

And then you have some AI that are 2 laps down and still try to race you into every corner.

FInroDz
23-01-2018, 15:23
Clio Cup on Snetterton. AI cars change from rain to slick on lap 9. After one lap, race has finished and I won by 2.10.xx from second place :distrust:

This part simply doesn't work since Project Cars 1. I hoped for some improvements in the second release, but nothing.

Richie Padalino
23-01-2018, 16:30
Clio Cup on Snetterton. AI cars change from rain to slick on lap 9. After one lap, race has finished and I won by 2.10.xx from second place :distrust:

This part simply doesn't work since Project Cars 1. I hoped for some improvements in the second release, but nothing.

Can I just ask, how do you know what tyres the AI are changing to and from? I can't seem to find that information anywhere?

Doug914
23-01-2018, 21:00
As mentioned elsewhere, this is fixed for patch 4. Lots of pitting logic was fixed or went through and optimized better for patch 4. Enjoy it. :)

Konan
23-01-2018, 21:44
As mentioned elsewhere, this is fixed for patch 4. Lots of pitting logic was fixed or went through and optimized better for patch 4. Enjoy it. :)

On top of that i'll put your other good news here also Doug :cool:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1465684&viewfull=1#post1465684

FInroDz
24-01-2018, 06:24
Logic. Almost no more water on the track line. But it seems there are good news from doug :)

Doug914
25-01-2018, 13:07
On top of that i'll put your other good news here also Doug :cool:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1465684&viewfull=1#post1465684

Thanks Konan. There's been alot of work to sort through the gameplay issues everyone has reported, and lot you haven't. No doubt you all will *still* find stuff that peve's you or isn't quite perfect. This game is massive and with all the combinations you can come up with to create a race, stuff can still happen. I think the majority of the issues though are solved/improved. If Ian allows us , we'll still collect and try to solve any further issues that trully need fixing (or even one or two we may have created by fixing other stuff. :)). But that's not my call. But I'll (and you all) have to give Ian kudo's for allowing us the freedom to go all out on this patch when we *really* should have been working on other projects. And No, I don't know when the patch will be released, so don't ask ;)

Konan
25-01-2018, 13:10
And No, I don't know when the patch will be released, so don't ask

Oh yes you do.......











SMSoon........

V3nom
25-01-2018, 14:32
I appreciate the hard work you guys are putting in but I find it strange that you guys give kudos to the boss for letting you guys fix the issues instead of working on other projects.
I have no clue if you are talking about a new game or a new dlc but it doesn't really change the taste I get.
As many issues as this game has it shouldn't be an abnormality to prioritize the fixes.

"If Ian allows us , we'll still collect and try to solve any further issues that trully need fixing."

Seriously? Geez, thanks!

Konan
25-01-2018, 14:46
For those who don't follow the AI thread:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1466538&viewfull=1#post1466538

Konan
25-01-2018, 14:50
I appreciate the hard work you guys are putting in but I find it strange that you guys give kudos to the boss for letting you guys fix the issues instead of working on other projects.
I have no clue if you are talking about a new game or a new dlc but it doesn't really change the taste I get.
As many issues as this game has it shouldn't be an abnormality to prioritize the fixes.

"If Ian allows us , we'll still collect and try to solve any further issues that trully need fixing."

Seriously? Geez, thanks!

That is a sure fire way to chase the devs out like it happened in the past for pCARS...nice going!

V3nom
25-01-2018, 14:54
I have no clue how it went down with PC1 since this is my first simracing game I ever bought.
Maybe Doug phrased the sentence unintentionally that way but it sure leaves a bitter taste to hear such a thing.

Sankyo
25-01-2018, 15:02
I appreciate the hard work you guys are putting in but I find it strange that you guys give kudos to the boss for letting you guys fix the issues instead of working on other projects.

It works like this:
- the devs work for years to create a fantastic game
- it gets published, and (till then unknown) bugs are found
- the devs hate bugs, and want to squash them all
- time and money limitations restrict what can be done, for how long, and in what order
- the devs work their butts off to solve as many issues as possible, while management starts moving resources towards the new project to keep the business running in the long term

There always comes a time when support has to be stopped, in order to survive as a business.

And don't start with saying that in step 2 no bugs should ever pop up, because that's not how reality works.

bmanic
25-01-2018, 15:58
It works like this:
- the devs work for years to create a fantastic game
- it gets published, and (till then unknown) bugs are found
- the devs hate bugs, and want to squash them all
- time and money limitations restrict what can be done, for how long, and in what order
- the devs work their butts off to solve as many issues as possible, while management starts moving resources towards the new project to keep the business running in the long term

There always comes a time when support has to be stopped, in order to survive as a business.

And don't start with saying that in step 2 no bugs should ever pop up, because that's not how reality works.

.. it's not how reality works no, but lets not for a second pretend like "it gets published, and (till then unknown) bugs are found" (your 2nd line there). Quite a few bugs stem all the way back to the first game which is extremely frustrating for many people. Some understanding for this frustration would probably be very much appreciated instead of making it sound like none of the problems were known.

I'm sorry that this will undoubtedly be looked at as a super negative post but from my perspective it is _reality_ as it is. It ain't all roses and innocence and a lot of people are tired of playing make-believe. Frankly, I don't blame them. For me the game works perfectly acceptably and I'm getting tons of fun from it.. but us who are fortunate in this should at leas TRY to understand the frustration instead of dismissing it or downplaying it (which is what I felt you were doing, which is why I wrote this post).

EDIT: Ironically, pCars gets so much frustration and "hate" because it is so damn good. The palpable potential of what-could-be if it just got a massive chunk of polish and bug squashing (keeping fingers crossed for Patch 4.0) is very evident for everybody. Hence it gets perhaps an unfair treatment.

V3nom
25-01-2018, 16:15
Firstly thanks for the answer, I do not mean to be rude or offensive.
Let me get this straight. I do realize that it works the way you described it. I also do understand that there are money and time limitations when it comes to game development.

Now, to get to your points.

- the devs work for years to create a fantastic game
I know how massive this game is. I really feel that what is running under the hood is unbelievable and I do think this could be the best racer ever made if it worked 100% flawlessly. I love the core of this game, this is the first game in my life that I got over 70 hours playtime in it(besides from dota2). Heck this game made me spend 700€ and I am a student with a barely decent financial situation.
All of this has to acount for something.

- it gets published, and (till then unknown) bugs are found
Nobody in this world can make me believe that many of the bugs were unknown until after release. Heck there are many bugs that got carried over from PC1 from what I hear in my racing league and on this forum. Is that normal?
I would never expect such a big game to be bugfree from the get go but fundamental features of a sim racing game to be broken half a year after release is a joke.


- time and money limitations restrict what can be done, for how long, and in what order
Again, fully understandable. But why am I not supposed to play the game as it has bee advertised to me? I and many others have paid 100 bucks for this game. Sure maybe for many it's nothing and for others it is a lot but this is how the game market has developed price wise.
And don't get me wrong I am not saying that I should be entitled to having more for paying more. I was very glad to pay more for this game because I was astonished by the insane level of detail when it comes to physics, tracks and other things. I most certainly would gladly wait 2 years for the first DLC to come or for a sequel in order to have a fully functioning and bugfree game.


- the devs work their butts off to solve as many issues as possible, while management starts moving resources towards the new project to keep the business running in the long term

Yes I get it, the show must go on. While fully understandable it still does not make sense to realease a game in such a bad state. There are many examples of such games. But you know what? Every example I can think of, the devs stuck with it till the end to iron out all the bugs.
Look at witcher 3, the game was a big mess when it came out and now I can't find any flaw in it.
Yes I get it, you can't compare witcher to project cars. But for the love of god you can't bring a broken game out two times in a row when the first game is still not bug free. This is disrespect to the customer. I get it there are many whiney kids that many devs couldn't give a F for them but there are also customers that love and appreciate the core game. Why is there a need to disrespect the customer in this way? Is it because of money? Well good luck with that next time. As I see, it allready went well with PC1.

To finish all of this. There are many different business models that would allow such a mess of a game at release but the chosen business model is not.
I know that choices have been made and mistakes also. But ffs if you choose to make such a big game then stay until the end and work your butt off!

Alfisti
25-01-2018, 16:49
Same thing I always said, they bit off way more than they can chew with snow, ice and gravel. Resources that could have been used refining the issues from PC1 that were not addressed.

maxx69
25-01-2018, 17:08
Snow for me and the guys in our league is just a pointless gimmick .
It's fun driving the rally x cars in it , but not something we would race in normally . I'm pretty sure most serious races in real life would be red flagged if the track was covered in snow or ice .
I just wished the simple Race ruining things like saved setups bugs (not saving between sessions), pit stop bugs (not getting what you set in strategies)and the stupidly low game volumes where (like last night) I can't hear my own engine sounds and nearly caused an accident exiting a corner in second gear . I couldn't hear the engine bouncing off the limiter when I should have changed up (short geared rally x car )

Jetsun
25-01-2018, 17:44
Thanks Konan. There's been alot of work to sort through the gameplay issues everyone has reported, and lot you haven't. No doubt you all will *still* find stuff that peve's you or isn't quite perfect. This game is massive and with all the combinations you can come up with to create a race, stuff can still happen. I think the majority of the issues though are solved/improved. If Ian allows us , we'll still collect and try to solve any further issues that trully need fixing (or even one or two we may have created by fixing other stuff. :)). But that's not my call. But I'll (and you all) have to give Ian kudo's for allowing us the freedom to go all out on this patch when we *really* should have been working on other projects. And No, I don't know when the patch will be released, so don't ask ;)

cool! much kudos then :p

sas5320
25-01-2018, 18:00
Right the bugs are supposed to be found (and fixed!) well before release (players don't pay 60 euro to be the QA team). Seems this team just lost track of the schedule and that "polish" phase at the end was missed or rushed (again, like pc1). The pc2 bugs were found (and some continue to be found) in the non-complex areas like saving/editing/deleting game data and UI design and execution for example. Thing is it's becoming industry norm almost to release buggy games and "patch-it-later" (tm) so we're not seeing anything too different really. edit: 2 posts above the point about "snow gimmick" for example, that time and effort could have been better spent by artists and physics teams. 1,000% agree

Sankyo
25-01-2018, 19:22
Topic was answered, thread closed.