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ccughostdk
28-01-2018, 11:42
I was on a server last night when i ran into http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198040053091 aka Aditas H1Z1Cases.com.
He is doing his business on regular basis..... a search revealed that. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?59812-Look-at-this-crazy-driver!&p=1464523

Accidents happens I know.... but this was no accicent. See the video.... its just a small part of a 10 lap race.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHSQ63gr9sU

Cholton82
28-01-2018, 13:03
The words I'd use to describe people like that would probably see me rightly banned so I'll just bite my tongue and move along !!!

davidt33
28-01-2018, 13:04
Betcha a twenny it's some a-hole kid just in game for kicks and giggles.

FxUK
28-01-2018, 14:00
There's quite a few people who "enjoy" doing stuff like that. My personal list of 'to-avoid' is quite small

Names might not be 100% but I don't write em down, just remember em ;)

Two friends who like to park on track and ruin the race.
* OliMatrix
* Torey_

Another, who does the same
....CSGO-PUBG.... something or other.

They are serial rammers, plus now Aditas H1Z1cases.com.

There's too many 'rage rammers' to make note of, but its the serial rammers I like to avoid at all costs.

eracerhead
28-01-2018, 14:14
This thread gives him more notoriety than he rates, and is why such people do these sorts of things. Ignore him and move on down the road.

Richie Padalino
28-01-2018, 14:49
This thread gives him more notoriety than he rates, and is why such people do these sorts of things. Ignore him and move on down the road.

But, for example, I have no idea about this guy. But now, if I were to stumble across him, theoretically, then I'll be aware, and either leave that lobby, or do a better job of avoiding someone like this.

Is that not a good thing?

V3nom
28-01-2018, 14:57
You really think this guy is gonna scan the web or at least this forum for threads where people are talking about him? Come on..

Konan
28-01-2018, 15:06
You really think this guy is gonna scan the web or at least this forum for threads where people are talking about him? Come on..

Does anyone know what goes through his mind acting like he does?
So what makes you so sure he won't do exactly the opposite of what you say?
What might be incomprehensable for us might just be common logic for guys like that...no way in knowing what makes him tick...

V3nom
28-01-2018, 15:20
While your argument on "everything is possible" is 100% correct I must stand by my opinion that such attitude, as shown in the video, should in most cases lead to boredom.
This is my take on that guy:
Clearly the game is to hard or to time consuming to comprehend for him. He does not know how to be fast. He does not know or have the willpower to learn this sport.
This results in easy gained joy by smashing in to a bunch of people and ruining their lobby. In most of the cases such behaviour means that this person has a hard time concentrating on something and getting deeper in the matter, where the true fun and joy is to be found.
For this reasons I care to think that this guy is also lazy on searching the internet for this thread.

Of course as I stated in the beginning. Everyone can be right or wrong on this topic. :)

Ossnott
28-01-2018, 15:31
Why didn't he get vote kicked?

If I notice rammers in practise or qually I press vote kick, and many times they leave instantly before getting more votes.

ccughostdk
28-01-2018, 15:56
Why didn't he get vote kicked?

If I notice rammers in practise or qually I press vote kick, and many times they leave instantly before getting more votes.

Please inform me. I'm new to the game and have only played around 130 hours so I still have a lot to learn. How do You vote/kick an opponent with bad behavior while the race is running. :confused:

FxUK
28-01-2018, 16:02
Why didn't he get vote kicked?

If I notice rammers in practise or qually I press vote kick, and many times they leave instantly before getting more votes.

Vote kicking needs major improvement. Well.. its minor really, but probably harder to implement than we imagine.

Some people don't know where to do it and mid-race, some people have the entire UI off (so no vote kick notice in race) and some people pay zero attention anyway.
Also... nobody is going to agree with the vote mid-race unless they implement a simple 'hotkey' to agree, like in AC for example.

I've been in a few lobbies where I basically warned everybody "hey, these two are here to ruin the race, they have done so in the last 4 lobbies" and then I chose to try and vote kick.
Nope. The race started, they ruined it and everybody else quit one by one instead.

Edit, forgot to add... but, when waiting for everybody to click ready during a race countdown, people suddenly learn how to vote kick, but for the wrong reasons.. impatience.

ccughostdk
28-01-2018, 16:21
What I really dont understand is why the game is made so he can do this without any consequences.

Terms and conditions for the game should state that such behavior will lead to exclusion from the game and loss of license.

Fuzzy
28-01-2018, 16:38
That video reminded me of Robot Wars.

What a dick.

beatrunner
28-01-2018, 18:41
i just had a dick like this destroying another of my races. 10 lap race, beeing at p1 since start, at lap 3 at Red Bull Ring, a crasher with a ghosted car standing on the racing line right behind important T1...comming with full speed, nowhere else to go, seeing a ghosted car infront of me and thinking "lucky me, he's ghosted, must have had an accident, another guy i'm lapping..." and running throu the ghosted car....

huge mistake...NOPE...effect of ghosting is only visual...huge crash....my 7 seconds lead turned into beeing now p11...and suffering from lots of aero and suspension damage...

i made my way back to p2 at the end (damage was on, and i got huuuge damage). but it ruined my whole racing spirit for tonight. for that reason i'm only creating lobbies with "ghosting car's off". so i know when i see a car, i need to brake and make moves around them. but again: we can't even see if this option is on / off when we join a race online....

lmntr
28-01-2018, 20:59
There must be a process provided by SMS to ban drivers like him. I do not care about the justification that he paid for the game and can play as he likes, there is nothing we can do......blah, blah, blah. You got to a theater to enjoy a good movie or a play, someone starts acting up and disrupting the entertainment; they get thrown out and having paid is no consideration.

Lakiboom
28-01-2018, 21:25
I focused on not what he did, but what happened after. Seriously, i like Pcars2 but here are some huge problems with physics. This video is a good example. Cars jumps, flips, so unrealistic. Where did devs watch? Or is it ok for them? Maybe this is physics from the Moon, but here on the Earth it is not work like that.

V3nom
28-01-2018, 21:29
Dude, did you see how the collisions look on GTSport? And still, this has nothing to do with the actual driving physics which are excellent.

Azure Flare
28-01-2018, 21:35
His avatar on Steam is probably a picture of him that was taken 2 days ago.

davidt33
28-01-2018, 21:39
Please inform me. I'm new to the game and have only played around 130 hours so I still have a lot to learn. How do You vote/kick an opponent with bad behavior while the race is running. :confused:

I'd like to know myself. I've never noticed the option.
Could someone explain when and where this option is?

Mahjik
28-01-2018, 21:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddyy1HXraXI


I focused on not what he did, but what happened after. Seriously, i like Pcars2 but here are some huge problems with physics. This video is a good example. Cars jumps, flips, so unrealistic. Where did devs watch? Or is it ok for them? Maybe this is physics from the Moon, but here on the Earth it is not work like that.

All sim titles have issues with collision physics. Right now, the lion share of the physics code is around tire, suspension, chassis and aero behavior. Most sims don't have crunch physics and air physics which is what causes those strange things to happen. When processing power can keep up, everything can have better behavior.

FxUK
28-01-2018, 22:01
I'd like to know myself. I've never noticed the option.
Could someone explain when and where this option is?

When in a lobby with the list of players on the right, click one of them and a window will popup allowing you to vote kick.

Problem is, it doesn't show how many people are voting to kick, so some people see it as one person spamming when it could be 10 people genuinely wanting somebody out.
Second problem, your vote means jack.... unless others can be bothered also, which simply doesn't happen on most lobbies, unless you are the host (I think)


It would be great if it showed "3 people have voted to kick PlayerX".
It would also be great if in-race, you could press Y to agree (or something).. even via the ICM would be better, as it stands, the only way to vote kick during a race is stop, press esc, vote kick, then.. well... then its certainly over for you anyway.

V3nom
28-01-2018, 22:02
But is it possible while the race is running?

ccughostdk
28-01-2018, 22:11
When processing power can keep up, everything can have better behavior.

And do You think that counts for Aditas H1Z1Cases.com as well? ;)

Mahjik
28-01-2018, 22:16
And do You think that counts for Aditas H1Z1Cases.com as well? ;)

Unfortunately, no. ;)

There are always drivers like that... Could be the same guy, but when PC1 came out there was a driver who targeted forum mods from here and would try to crash them every race. After a while, people will recognize the name and start voting to kick before the race even starts.

sas5320
28-01-2018, 22:40
^ "Amik"

poirqc
28-01-2018, 22:42
Unfortunately, no. ;)

There are always drivers like that... Could be the same guy, but when PC1 came out there was a driver who targeted forum mods from here and would try to crash them every race. After a while, people will recognize the name and start voting to kick before the race even starts.

That beloved Amik! He was something. From the way he talked, you couldn't really tell if we was playing a role or he was simple minded!

In pCars 1, you wouldn't say: I got rammed! You would say: I go Amik'ed

LukeC
29-01-2018, 03:01
I was on a server last night when i ran into http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198040053091 aka Aditas H1Z1Cases.com.
He is doing his business on regular basis..... a search revealed that. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?59812-Look-at-this-crazy-driver!&p=1464523

Accidents happens I know.... but this was no accicent. See the video.... its just a small part of a 10 lap race.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHSQ63gr9sU

Things like this make me wonder why sim titles don't have realistic damage and realistic gravel behaviour.

If they did, he would probably manage to take one guy out and then he'd have an undriveable car and/or be stuck in the gravel. To me this would preferable over any penalty system.

Mahjik
29-01-2018, 03:05
^ "Amik"


That beloved Amik! He was something. From the way he talked, you couldn't really tell if we was playing a role or he was simple minded!

In pCars 1, you wouldn't say: I got rammed! You would say: I go Amik'ed

Nope, wasn't him. Amik wrecked everyone. This driver only wreck mods from this forum.

Sankyo
29-01-2018, 06:57
Things like this make me wonder why sim titles don't have realistic damage and realistic gravel behaviour.

If they did, he would probably manage to take one guy out and then he'd have an undriveable car and/or be stuck in the gravel. To me this would preferable over any penalty system.
Realistic gravel would mean that many not-superb sim-racers would have many races end prematurely by getting stuck in the gravel trap through small mistakes or even because of mistakes of others or avoiding crashes.

To keep the game playable for the majority of the player base, gravel traps are not as they are in real life.

As for the topic: I have notified the devs as we've had the occasional MP ban in the past, but no promises that something will happen.

LukeC
29-01-2018, 07:37
Realistic gravel would mean that many not-superb sim-racers would have many races end prematurely by getting stuck in the gravel trap through small mistakes or even because of mistakes of others or avoiding crashes.

I think people getting stuck in gravel just like in real life would be cool, as would be 100% realistic damage.

Anybody complaing about realism in a sim does not really want to be playing a sim in my view.

TwilightUA
29-01-2018, 07:46
I think people getting stuck in gravel just like in real life would be cool, as would be 100% realistic damage.

Anybody complaing about realism in a sim does not really want to be playing a sim in my view.

Do not forget, it is still a game. Realism is fun up to certain point. I wouldn't like to spend the rest of a race in gravel just because I went there to avoid collision, for example.

RoccoTTS
29-01-2018, 07:47
I think people getting stuck in gravel just like in real life would be cool, as would be 100% realistic damage.

Anybody complaing about realism in a sim does not really want to be playing a sim in my view.

It would be very cool, but 90% of the people playing online right now (including myself) can't handle 100% sim with 100% realistic damage. So the result would be a VERY small player base and it would be boring pretty quick.

cluck
29-01-2018, 08:00
^^^ Indeed. 90% of those calling for realistic damage and realistic gravel will be calling for the old (ie, current) system back within a few races. Crippling car damage and/or gravel beaching are the absolute antithesis to fun.

Realism is all very well and good but as our league found out, just over a week ago, when it gets in the way of the racing itself it takes 99% of the joy out of things. As for that possibly making it less of a sim, hogwash, there's far more to a sim than crippling punishment for the tiniest error. It is perfectly possible to marry a top-tier tyre/physics model with great racing, without the sniffy "you wouldn't get away with that damage in real life" approach.

Sankyo
29-01-2018, 08:18
As cluck stated, we sim racers want to race, and not be confronted with all the dreary real-life issues that real life racers have to endure. Imagine that a sim would re-create all the car/engine issues that Max Verstappen had to endure the past F1 season. Would you enjoy spending half of your league races driving less than a quarter of the race and then end up with a blown engine just because of some randomly appointed hardware failure?

Jetsun
29-01-2018, 08:20
I think people getting stuck in gravel just like in real life would be cool, as would be 100% realistic damage.

Anybody complaing about realism in a sim does not really want to be playing a sim in my view.

the beginner that I am would not appreciate that at all... learning to deal with the wonderful physics of the cars on track in already enough of challenge in itself, and btw this rally x thing, oh boy just starting to enjoy myself with the RX lite, what a good idea to have included that!

Franco Ferrari
29-01-2018, 08:32
Getting back on topic.
If it was me deciding for the MP ban, that would be a full OK.
The OP video, for me, is a good enough evidence that there is the clear and protract intent of ruining the race to everyone, indistinctly, and not a single (still disgraceful, but less mean) revenge act taken on a particular player, for example.

A permaban from MP could be a bit rough, maybe, based on a single replay video... but a full reset of the competitive licence to U100 is in need, to say the least. If not, just to pass the message "We're watching you" (which, ironically, is exactly what trolls want... but, whatever).

LukeC
29-01-2018, 08:34
As cluck stated, we sim racers want to race, and not be confronted with all the dreary real-life issues that real life racers have to endure. Imagine that a sim would re-create all the car/engine issues that Max Verstappen had to endure the past F1 season. Would you enjoy spending half of your league races driving less than a quarter of the race and then end up with a blown engine just because of some randomly appointed hardware failure?

As I see it, you've arbitrary assigned the status of dreary real-life issues to one aspect of reality (damage and gravel) but not to many other aspects of reality (realistic physics, brakes locking, fuel management etc.)

The reason why a lot of people don't play sims is because they find realistic physics and car behaviour dreary. And that's why they'd rather play arcade racers instead. And that's fine, but they would be out of order to buy a sim and to demand arcade handling and billiard-ball collision physics because they find realism dreary. At least that's my purist and perhaps somewhat extreme way of looking at this particular issue.

Sankyo
29-01-2018, 08:44
As I see it, you've arbitrary assigned the status of dreary real-life issues to one aspect of reality (damage and gravel) but not to many other aspects of reality (realistic physics, brakes locking, fuel management etc.)

The reason why a lot of people don't play sims is because they find realistic physics and car behaviour dreary. And that's why they'd rather play arcade racers instead. And that's fine, but they would be out of order to buy a sim and to demand arcade handling and billiard-ball collision physics because they find realism dreary. At least that's my purist and perhaps somewhat extreme way of looking at this particular issue.
I'm definitely a sim racer because I want to experience as much as possible of what it takes to drive/race a real car. But that's exactly it, I want to actually drive/race and not spend time not driving/racing because of perfectly simulated real-life showstoppers. My assignment of realism items I do and do not want in a game is based on what contributes to the fun and challenge of simulated driving/racing. That basically includes what I have control of or need to build up skill for, and hence will not include stuff like random race-ending malfunctions.

Personally I'm on the fence about gravel traps and would prefer an option in the game for real or easy gravel traps, as having real traps needs you to reconsider risk-taking during a race which to me is part of the strategic part of racing.

EV3RY
29-01-2018, 08:47
Could the host have a restart race option, kick the idiot and go again for the rest or would this just cause more issues?

Cholton82
29-01-2018, 08:55
I'm definitely a sim racer because I want to experience as much as possible what it takes to drive/race a real car. But that's exactly it, I want to actually drive/race and not spend time not driving/racing because of perfectly simulated real-life showstoppers. My assignment of realism items I do and do not want in a game is based on what contributes to the fun and challenge of simulated driving/racing. That basically includes what I have control of or need to build up skill for, and hence will not include stuff like random race-ending malfunctions.

Personally I'm on the fence about gravel traps and would prefer an option in the game for real or easy gravel traps, as having real traps needs you to reconsider risk-taking during a race which to me is part of the strategic part of racing.

100% agree that a real vs simple gravel trap would be a good idea , I'm probably among a small minority that actually likes the uber realistic harshness and devastating consequences that a small error can bring . It makes you learn from your mistakes and calculate the risk reward factor a little more but I can understand that putting in around 2hrs of practice/Qually only to be out in T1 is not attractive to most people .

Just to add that It would be good if we had T&C's for people entering ranked races so that penalties and bans could be given out to those that try and ruin it for others.

LukeC
29-01-2018, 09:01
100% agree that a real vs simple gravel trap would be a good idea , I'm probably among a small minority that actually likes the uber realistic harshness and devastating consequences that a small error can bring . It makes you learn from your mistakes and calculate the risk reward factor a little more but I can understand that putting in around 2hrs of practice/Qually only to be out in T1 is not attractive to most people .

Just to add that It would be good if we had T&C's for people entering ranked races so that penalties and bans could be given out to those that try and ruin it for others.

Indeed on/off for realistic gravel traps and damage would be great. Uber realistic harshness and devastating consequences like in dirt rally make it much more exhilarating for me.

Franco Ferrari
29-01-2018, 09:43
Could the host have a restart race option, kick the idiot and go again for the rest or would this just cause more issues?

I'd really like this one to be implemented ^^.
To reiterate, maybe limit the amount of restarts to a fixed amount (1 or 2 at max), and / or limit the availability of such option to the first % of race completed (let's say 10-20% of the overall time length, or before the end of the first lap, to avoid angry hosts to restart a race if they're running last).

Other otpions would be to enable the AI control for the Host only, while he/she is in the lobby menu to perform a kick.
This way the race would not be wasted and in some cases it may not need to be restarted.
The AI controlled car would not try to overtake anyone or race too "competitively", it will just keep the car on track for the brief moments required to perform the kick.
Maybe even this option can be limited in time (30 seconds of AI allowed).

BigDad
29-01-2018, 09:59
Man , that was just so annoying to watch let alone be in a race with him . This is why i'm glad Sims have pretty decent Ai now a dayz .
#Banhim4life

Raklodder
29-01-2018, 10:40
I know it's sad to see this kind of behavior online (in any game) but I don't see this going away anytime soon unless people get a proper ban.

ccughostdk
29-01-2018, 10:40
As for the topic: I have notified the devs as we've had the occasional MP ban in the past, but no promises that something will happen.

Nice :eagerness:

pippinfort
29-01-2018, 11:12
Could the host have a restart race option, kick the idiot and go again for the rest or would this just cause more issues?

I think this is a great idea but could be open to abuse (e.g. a host that had a bad start).

If implemented, a few thoughts?

- Could it / should it be limited to races with a director?
- - Make it a manual process?
- - Start under review on screen warning followed by restart?

- What are the FIA rules for a restart?
- - Could these rules be "automatically detected" and a forced restart takes place?

- Could the culprit(s) of the FU be detected and dropped?

- Damaged cars repaired automatically?

I can see a whole load of menu options already ;-)

Cholton82
29-01-2018, 11:18
Safety car ;) , All cars that have damage make their way into the pits for repairs and then join up behind the pack whilst the culprit gets black flagged and removed from the session and then people get into the original starting positions and prepare for a rolling start after the safety car pulls in .

banner77amc
29-01-2018, 14:59
249264

Its sad but this is what it is...

iggy
29-01-2018, 17:20
Solution to the sand trap problem... run at a place like Long Beach, with full damage on... You won't get too many idiots stick around for a whole race. Problem is, there are a lot of idiots , and you may not have more then one or two who'll race with you with those conditions.

MaXyM
29-01-2018, 17:51
Speaking about damage... iI would really like to see more realistic mechanical damage.
For example in PC2 you can cut second chicane on Monza, going through retarders at speed without any consequences.

gp2112
29-01-2018, 20:06
249264

Its sad but this is what it is...

I don't think that this explains why gamers such as the one in the video like to act in the manner that they do. When PC1 came out there was one guy, not Amik, who liked to do the same thing. He was brought up in a thread on Steam and he actually came in and replied to the thread. He stated that he paid good money for the game and his actions were how he got his joy out of the game. He felt it was his game so he should play it as he chose, no matter the problems he caused in a server.

It all comes down to attention. My theory is gamers like this, just like most hackers I ran into in COD, wanted attention. Perhaps mommy and daddy did not pay them attention 24 hours a day but always told them that they were "specialer" than others kids. Thus, the child is told he is special and expects concomitant attention levels from others that reflects his "specialness". When, in the real world, the gamer does not get attention for mere mediocrity, he or she becomes enraged and acts out in a manner that garners attention. While the attention he or she garners is not positive, it is, in the end, attention. Thus the gamer is getting the levels of attention they believe they deserve.

The worst one could do is ignore or kick without warning. This tells the gamer that he or she is not important enough to acknowledge, thus can lead to crying jags and confrontations with society in which the gamer is treated much in the same manner as everyone else.

I am not a professional, thus my opinion, while probably true, should not be taken seriously.

Sankyo
30-01-2018, 06:51
I don't think that this explains why gamers such as the one in the video like to act in the manner that they do. When PC1 came out there was one guy, not Amik, who liked to do the same thing. He was brought up in a thread on Steam and he actually came in and replied to the thread. He stated that he paid good money for the game and his actions were how he got his joy out of the game. He felt it was his game so he should play it as he chose, no matter the problems he caused in a server.

It all comes down to attention. My theory is gamers like this, just like most hackers I ran into in COD, wanted attention. Perhaps mommy and daddy did not pay them attention 24 hours a day but always told them that they were "specialer" than others kids. Thus, the child is told he is special and expects concomitant attention levels from others that reflects his "specialness". When, in the real world, the gamer does not get attention for mere mediocrity, he or she becomes enraged and acts out in a manner that garners attention. While the attention he or she garners is not positive, it is, in the end, attention. Thus the gamer is getting the levels of attention they believe they deserve.

The worst one could do is ignore or kick without warning. This tells the gamer that he or she is not important enough to acknowledge, thus can lead to crying jags and confrontations with society in which the gamer is treated much in the same manner as everyone else.

I am not a professional, thus my opinion, while probably true, should not be taken seriously.
Somehow the first section and the rest of your analysis don't really match up for me. I'd rather say that the example you gave in the first section isn't someone who wants attention, but someone with a total lack of empathy. HE paid money for the game, so he can do what HE wants without any consideration of others. Doesn't sound like trying to get attention but rather the opposite, not giving a siht.

In general, I do agree that most rammers enjoy getting (negative) attention from others by behaving anti-socially. Also basically a lack of empathy towards people you don't know, but different underlying mechanism.

RoccoTTS
30-01-2018, 07:03
Somehow the first section and the rest of your analysis don't really match up for me. I'd rather say that the example you gave in the first section isn't someone who wants attention, but someone with a total lack of empathy. HE paid money for the game, so he can do what HE wants without any consideration of others. Doesn't sound like trying to get attention but rather the opposite, not giving a siht.

In general, I do agree that most rammers enjoy getting (negative) attention from others by behaving anti-socially. Also basically a lack of empathy towards people you don't know, but different underlying mechanism.

You just described the behavior of a well known world leader ;)

Konan
30-01-2018, 07:07
You just described the behavior of a well known world leader ;)

...thanks but i'm not leader yet...:p

RoccoTTS
30-01-2018, 07:12
...thanks but i'm not leader yet...:p

But you are well known in the world ;)

Konan
30-01-2018, 07:18
But you are well known in the world ;)

I'm getting there...more infamous than famous i'm affraid though...:p

ELAhrairah
30-01-2018, 09:15
Late to the discussion but people like Aditas H1Z1Cases.com should be banned for a long period of time. Say a month or so.
Is SMS reading this post? The proof for bad track behavior is there. Will this guy be banned? His Steam id is known. His PCars2 id is known. Or is this post nothing but a paper tiger? :).. I'm a bit pumped about this, maybe because I just saw the movie Darkest hour with Gary Oldman, great flick. And this post and most reactions, especially from the mods, feel like appeasement Chamberlain policy against the Nazis. We need to take care of these Nazi sim drivers for once and for all.
To put it Churchill's words:
"YOU CANNOT REASON WITH A TIGER WHEN YOUR HEAD IS IN ITS MOUTH!"
Ban these devils. They are destroying our game.

Jetsun
30-01-2018, 10:29
Somehow the first section and the rest of your analysis don't really match up for me. I'd rather say that the example you gave in the first section isn't someone who wants attention, but someone with a total lack of empathy. HE paid money for the game, so he can do what HE wants without any consideration of others. Doesn't sound like trying to get attention but rather the opposite, not giving a siht.

In general, I do agree that most rammers enjoy getting (negative) attention from others by behaving anti-socially. Also basically a lack of empathy towards people you don't know, but different underlying mechanism.

yea, I would go as far as to say that lack of empathy is root cause of much problems ... from killing an insect to WWII, from rammers to serial killers :nightmare:

even for one wanting to get attention, if his empathy is sufficiently developed you would never try to do so at the expense of others.

solocapers
30-01-2018, 11:31
Late to the discussion but people like Aditas H1Z1Cases.com should be banned for a long period of time. Say a month or so.
Is SMS reading this post? The proof for bad track behavior is there. Will this guy be banned? His Steam id is known. His PCars2 id is known. Or is this post nothing but a paper tiger? :).. I'm a bit pumped about this, maybe because I just saw the movie Darkest hour with Gary Oldman, great flick. And this post and most reactions, especially from the mods, feel like appeasement Chamberlain policy against the Nazis. We need to take care of these Nazi sim drivers for once and for all.
To put it Churchill's words:
"YOU CANNOT REASON WITH A TIGER WHEN YOUR HEAD IS IN ITS MOUTH!"
Ban these devils. They are destroying our game.

Thats the thing though.. Why should he be banned? He's paid for the game. Instead the driver safety rating should be used better both with how its implemented and how lobbies are set up.. Far too many lobbies are U100 on MP even when hosts are high safety rating and most of the people in the lobby is of a good rating. Its their own fault half the time for letting in people with crap safety ratings. Why doesn't the game automatically kick a racer if they've had x amount of crashes due to safety concerns?

Crashing a lot, such as ruining a race for lots of cars should mean that you should first - lose huge amounts of safety points and basically go back down to U rank - with a cap on the speed of recovery due to the large drop IF that person had a decent rank before. The person should also have a "cool down" on MP racing for x amount of hours rather than outright bans. That would also act as a safety net on racers who just arent good at racing clean. This would also dissuade would be crashers because they would need to grind "clean" before trying again to ruin decent lobbies.

Second, MP hosts should be forced to set lobby's at a reasonable level - There's too many lobbies with the hosts on a half decent rank who all have their lobby set to U100.

It wont be a popular opinion but the reason drivers like these make waves in so many lobbies is because the safety rank isnt took seriously enough by most hosts and the ingame logic its not tough enough on serial crashers. (IE timeouts for continued poor behaviour) Instead you can go to U rank but it doesnt make much difference as most lobbies allow U rank drivers anyway. Totally defeating the purpose of the system.

Hell, doesnt the safety rank increase when racing in CPU lobbies?

FxUK
30-01-2018, 11:55
I don't think banning is needed, but a licence drop below U (say to Z) would certainly help to isolate the "serial rammers" from the newcomer's and also give them a chance, if they wanted, to work their way back up.

I think U should only be used for a temporary state, whilst the driver is unknown / unrated, so lets say
Player 1 ram's people to death and drops to Z, if they ever behave, after some races, they go from Z to F (skipping U)
Player 2 drives well and rises to F, if they then get frustrated and start to ram every race, they drop to Z (skipping U)

Basically, once you are out of U, it is never attainable again. It gives a much clearer picture than it does now, at least.

From the default starting point of U1500, your skill can drop through the floor, but safety rating currently can't

RoccoTTS
30-01-2018, 12:14
I don't think banning is needed, but a licence drop below U (say to Z) would certainly help to isolate the "serial rammers" from the newcomer's and also give them a chance, if they wanted, to work their way back up.

I think U should only be used for a temporary state, whilst the driver is unknown / unrated, so lets say
Player 1 ram's people to death and drops to Z, if they ever behave, after some races, they go from Z to F (skipping U)
Player 2 drives well and rises to F, if they then get frustrated and start to ram every race, they drop to Z (skipping U)

Basically, once you are out of U, it is never attainable again. It gives a much clearer picture than it does now, at least.

From the default starting point of U1500, your skill can drop through the floor, but safety rating currently can't

At this moment, this is the best possible solution i've seen so far.

demadou
30-01-2018, 12:27
For me, it's plain and simple : Ban for these pieces of crap.
There are pretty many rammers like this, who can wait until the last lap to give you a tap in the gravel or destroy your race.

If they are rich enough to spend 50+ bucks in a game, then they should be banned of the game. I don't pay to share races which such idiotic person.

satco1066
30-01-2018, 12:44
Second, MP hosts should be forced to set lobby's at a reasonable level - There's too many lobbies with the hosts on a half decent rank who all have their lobby set to U100.


There should be a simple formula.
You cannot host a ranked lobby with ranking 2 steps lower than yours.

banner77amc
30-01-2018, 12:48
For me, it's plain and simple : Ban for these pieces of crap.
There are pretty many rammers like this, who can wait until the last lap to give you a tap in the gravel or destroy your race.

If they are rich enough to spend 50+ bucks in a game, then they should be banned of the game. I don't pay to share races which such idiotic person.

Remember this is the risk of going into an online game someone may not play fair. I don't know of any game where I have gone online and not found myself being killed immediately at spawn or knocked off track or whatever. While these bad gamers are generally awful you cannot deny them part of the game they purchased, but you can allow them to have a "destruction derby" with others that have such tendencies.

That now poses a question... what happens to the newbie driver that gets into a race that has a lower license? Wouldn't they get put into the crash fest on their first races?

Bealdor
30-01-2018, 12:58
There should be a simple formula.
You cannot host a ranked lobby with ranking 2 steps lower than yours.

And then all the experienced league admins can't create "newbie" lobbies for new members anymore... :rolleyes:
Not a great solution IMO.

Sankyo
30-01-2018, 13:02
That now poses a question... what happens to the newbie driver that gets into a race that has a lower license? Wouldn't they get put into the crash fest on their first races?
If newbs start off not with the lowest safety rank, and rammers go lower than that initial rank, that won't happen.

ELAhrairah
30-01-2018, 15:13
Thats the thing though.. Why should he be banned? He's paid for the game. Instead the driver safety rating should be used better both with how its implemented and how lobbies are set up.. Far too many lobbies are U100 on MP even when hosts are high safety rating and most of the people in the lobby is of a good rating. Its their own fault half the time for letting in people with crap safety ratings. Why doesn't the game automatically kick a racer if they've had x amount of crashes due to safety concerns?

Crashing a lot, such as ruining a race for lots of cars should mean that you should first - lose huge amounts of safety points and basically go back down to U rank - with a cap on the speed of recovery due to the large drop IF that person had a decent rank before.... Etc...

- I don't agree with your first point. The costs for the tech and dev for such things are to high. SMS will never do that. Not for the few people who need to banned.

-agree with the last part, people who organize races should rethink their racelicence setup.

If the proof is there, in a recording or whatever, SMS should rethink their banning policies and the mods here can get involved if they would voice their opinion a bit more. Take the extreme example of the sim nazi in this post. Why shouldn't some mod here be able to go and ban the guy from the SMS servers? It should be possible but again the mods here are the ones who can make it happen. But all I see is prefabricated political responses.

Konan
30-01-2018, 15:55
But all I see is prefabricated political responses

Say what now :confused:

Gav88888
30-01-2018, 16:05
A tweaked ranking system so people like this are given a Z1500 or something to show they are a holes and newbies start at U1500 and work up as normal?

ELAhrairah
30-01-2018, 16:23
Say what now :confused:
About this specific post and topic: I don't see the mods really standing up against such sim nazis. You guys have influence with the SMS team. Well use it. Next team meeting with people from SMS, Konan says: "hey we need to do something about online players who solely play online to wreck others. We have their Steam id. Help us ban them when people on the forum report these guys with conlclusive evidence."

Konan
30-01-2018, 16:29
About this specific post and topic: I don't see the mods really standing up against such sim nazis. You guys have influence with the SMS team. Well use it. Next team meeting with people from SMS, Konan says: "hey we need to do something about online players who solely play online to wreck others. We have their Steam id. Help us ban them when people on the forum report these guys with conlclusive evidence."

I think you might have the wrong idea about us mods?
We are not SMS so no team meetings for us...
Sankyo did ask the question through the proper channels though so SMS are aware...

satco1066
30-01-2018, 21:46
And then all the experienced league admins can't create "newbie" lobbies for new members anymore... :rolleyes:
Not a great solution IMO.

i wrote RANKED lobbies.
Experienced leagues don't use ranking :p

Tank621
31-01-2018, 22:28
Maybe they should be given a warning with video evidence of deliberate ramming, and if the behaviour continues then they be given a penalty in rankings and then a temporary ban form online, with bans reinstated for a longer time if they continue further

That way they become aware that their behaviour is not tolerated but gives them an oppurtunity to change how they behave

That's just speculative on my part, and there are probably better ways to do this but I personally do not believe that people should not be denied the chance to be rehabilitated

Sankyo
01-02-2018, 06:11
Maybe they should be given a warning with video evidence of deliberate ramming, and if the behaviour continues then they be given a penalty in rankings and then a temporary ban form online, with bans reinstated for a longer time if they continue further

That way they become aware that their behaviour is not tolerated but gives them an oppurtunity to change how they behave

That's just speculative on my part, and there are probably better ways to do this but I personally do not believe that people should not be denied the chance to be rehabilitated

Given that this particular guy has a website address as his Steam username, I'm pretty sure he's a spammer and doesn't give a toss about getting a warning to change his behaviour. He won't, because it's not what he's online for. He wants to draw attention to him so he gets clicks on his website.


Of course that's all speculation from my side as well :p

Stewy32
01-02-2018, 06:36
On the guy in the video some of his actions were understandable.He may never have raced at Monza before just TT or none at all so with all the bunching into T1 other than use an earlier braking point he just thought to take evasive action.After doing so,he slowed down which he should've done off-track and the rest is unacceptable.I'm just saying that if someone does the first bit but waits up off track at Curva Grande they may not be a dangerous driver,just inexperienced at Monza.

NateDawg
01-02-2018, 06:44
On the guy in the video some of his actions were understandable.He may never have raced at Monza before just TT or none at all so with all the bunching into T1 other than use an earlier braking point he just thought to take evasive action.After doing so,he slowed down which he should've done off-track and the rest is unacceptable.I'm just saying that if someone does the first bit but waits up off track at Curva Grande they may not be a dangerous driver,just inexperienced at Monza.

Taken holistically though, you wouldn't say someone who enters a shop and knocks over a display stand, gets the shop attendant and apologises, and then proceeds to set fire to the store and steal a bunch of stuff is a nice person because they could have innocently knocked over the display stand, would you?

Yes, a lot of people f*ck up the first corner at Monza. And that is understandable to a degree (although show me a sim racer who isn't familiar with Monza and I'll show you a liar), but the rest of the video is inexplicable and indicates the true intent of their first corner foray.

Franco Ferrari
01-02-2018, 07:49
On the guy in the video some of his actions were understandable.He may never have raced at Monza before just TT or none at all so with all the bunching into T1 other than use an earlier braking point he just thought to take evasive action.After doing so,he slowed down which he should've done off-track and the rest is unacceptable.I'm just saying that if someone does the first bit but waits up off track at Curva Grande they may not be a dangerous driver,just inexperienced at Monza.

Listen: that specimen has 155 hours of pCARS2 gameplay reported on steam.
Do you really think that anybody would pour 155 hours into a racing game and never ever make one single lap on the most used (should have said abused) track in online gameplay?

gregc
01-02-2018, 08:27
Listen: that specimen has 155 hours of pCARS2 gameplay reported on steam.
Do you really think that anybody would pour 155 hours into a racing game and never ever make one single lap on the most used (should have said abused) track in online gameplay?

Including WMD time I have well over 600 hours in the game, and in all that time I haven't done more than a handful of laps at Monza, and those were in TT rather than race. Not for a minute saying this is true of the guy in the video, just that it's entirely possible :)

Franco Ferrari
01-02-2018, 09:56
Including WMD time I have well over 600 hours in the game, and in all that time I haven't done more than a handful of laps at Monza, and those were in TT rather than race. Not for a minute saying this is true of the guy in the video, just that it's entirely possible :)

Well, then you must be the proverbial exception that proves the rule.
You must fall at the sides of the gaussian distribution curve.
I'm pretty sure our friend, however, is sitting comfy in the middle.

Bealdor
01-02-2018, 10:00
Well, then you must be the proverbial exception that proves the rule.
You must fall at the sides of the gaussian distribution curve.
I'm pretty sure our friend, however, is sitting comfy in the middle.

Do you really think that he's the exception because he doesn't play in MP? I don't think so.

Sankyo
01-02-2018, 10:15
Do you really think that he's the exception because he doesn't play in MP? I don't think so.

I think he means the exception of having spent very few laps on Monza :)

Bealdor
01-02-2018, 10:17
Ah ok. Misunderstood then.

gregc
01-02-2018, 11:02
I think he means the exception of having spent very few laps on Monza :)

Yep, that's what I meant. Though I don't do MP either as it happens :)

pferreirag60
01-02-2018, 12:32
Ive recorded every online race that i have done(the ones I can!) And in every race, even if I race with people with a better license security, there is always someone at the front that will do everything to win, like ramming you, changing trajectory like he was getting hot in the tires :), drivers who leave the track by accident and return without any care, purposely when an opponent is going to pass, this is constant, in all races, regardless of their level of driving, of course I meet many gentlemen, but they are the drop in a Ocean.

I have few hours at online because of everything that was said in this topic.

Franco Ferrari
01-02-2018, 13:30
Ive recorded every online race that i have done(the ones I can!) And in every race, even if I race with people with a better license security, there is always someone at the front that will do everything to win, like ramming you, changing trajectory like he was getting hot in the tires :), drivers who leave the track by accident and return without any care, purposely when an opponent is going to pass, this is constant, in all races, regardless of their level of driving, of course I meet many gentlemen, but they are the drop in a Ocean.

I have few hours at online because of everything that was said in this topic.


This reminds me the last MP race I had.
It was a "D" rated lobby with 1200 min skill, the track was Zolder, 10 laps with GT3.
All the other opponents were "C" or higher, except me and a couple others.
I qualified 3rd and the two players ahead were all "S" rated and 1500+ skill (I was D1424 at the moment).
At the start, I was cleanly overtaken by the one behind me and fell to 4th... just to return 3rd almost immediately @T2 because he shoot past the braking point.
The two guys in front of me kept exchanging paint for the best part of the first lap, when they finally reached the hairpin, where the 1st place shoot long and went just slightly on the grass outside, the 2nd place took advantage inside gaining 1st place.
The one now in 2nd, still with 2 wheels on the grass, was able to maintain a head-to-head distance with the 1st... but once they reached the immediate chicane he spun badly while attempting to completely return on the tarmac... crashing against the 1st and taking out both of them, clear away from my trajectory.

I was spectating the whole show from the very beginning and, obviously, gained 1st place, which I kept until the end, finishing 1st with 30secs advantage on the 2nd, which BTW was not one of the two guys that crashed in front of me.

I won 24 skill points and +40% of the amount to "C" safety rating in a single race.
What I learned from this is that no matter the safety rating of the lobby, mindless and pointless battles during the first lap are almost inevitable, the only difference is that almost nobody complains and swears in the live chat and then ragequits after a crash.

thomasjohansen
01-02-2018, 14:04
again Live For speed have some good bots for jerks like him.... He would have been kicked on first collision.

The bot works like asking the rammed "forgive (press 1) or else kick" then you have 30 secs to decide..... this takes care of alot of jerks.



and votekicks should be alot less.

In Live for speed you can ask to kick one and everybody would get prompted to "press 1 for kick, press 2 for forgive", this would be doable while driving... an easy keymaping

Franco Ferrari
01-02-2018, 15:39
In Live for speed you can ask to kick one and everybody would get prompted to "press 1 for kick, press 2 for forgive", this would be doable while driving... an easy keymaping



Easy, on PC.
On consoles.... not so much. :(

FxUK
01-02-2018, 21:41
Easy, on PC.
On consoles.... not so much. :(


Maybe the ICM could be used to confirm at least, perhaps not to initiate (but it could do that too via a sub menu)

Dynomight Motorsports
02-02-2018, 00:20
That race should have been stopped, Driver kicked and restarted.

Atak Kat
02-02-2018, 12:30
I was spectating the whole show from the very beginning and, obviously, gained 1st place, which I kept until the end, finishing 1st with 30secs advantage on the 2nd, which BTW was not one of the two guys that crashed in front of me.
I won 24 skill points and +40% of the amount to "C" safety rating in a single race.
What I learned from this is that no matter the safety rating of the lobby, mindless and pointless battles during the first lap are almost inevitable, the only difference is that almost nobody complains and swears in the live chat and then ragequits after a crash.

Agree, I have also seen your example unfold in front of me many times as well. To be completely honest, I'm sure I've been the guy that was over-exuberant and caused some problems (in hindsight, I should have known better).

To comment on the original OP question .... No, I don't see how a few complete jerks can ruin SMS business (only SMS could do that, and I don't think they are, even if things are not perfect). What can I say? It happens. It's annoying. But my experience is that it is quite rare to find a player that is just intentionally looking/waiting to ram people. Bad luck I guess. Honestly, I've lost many more points due to strange or mysterious disconnects, than I have due to run-ins with guys like the one shown in the video.

I think the safety rating system is quite good, actually. But just because people are A or S rated, it doesn't mean they are experts. They have a track record that is certainly more advanced, and the rating indicates that. But I think all of us still get caught up in the excitement, and sometimes we do some silly things. Some of you are more level-headed, I'm sure. But I suspect the majority of us are pushing the limits but don't realize we've over done it until it's too late. Although it's frustrating, I really don't have any complaint when someone tries a difficult or risky pass on me and ends up making a mistake and hitting me. You can usually tell when it's just over-exuberance. I'm fine with that and I actually find it challenging and rewarding to try to avoid it.

What REALLY annoys me though, is when you're passing someone who is quite fast and seems to know what they're doing, and they clearly, intentionally side-swipe you. Or clearly, push you wide in a turn. That's just nasty and poor sportsmanship. Shame on them, but in my opinion these are the real scum of this game. I'd rather be in a lobby full of guys racing and trying to lunge down the inside and causing mess, rather than have even one of these a-holes that intentionally side-swipes someone to protect their precious points. Honestly, in some cases I'd rather take the skill point reduction and disconnect from the race, rather than go on with a guy like that on the track.

See you out there. If I make a stupid mistake and take you out, I apologize in advance, and I'll most likely say so on the chat. Most likely, I'll wait for you, at least let you get past me no matter if it means losing lots of more places, because I don't want to get ahead of you if I was the cause. I guess I owe you a beer one day too. That said, if I do take a risk, make it stick, and you still have room, no contact, and you cock it up by losing control or something, well, that's racing mate.

pferreirag60
02-02-2018, 13:35
And I have found, maybe out of luck, the type of drivers you talk about, S or A, faster than me, but when i can pass them, by mistake of them or better move of my part, some try to push me wide take me out off the track..others with U or F, drive slow or fast but they are gentleman. I think the system of rating is quiet good, but not perfect.

Simerection
09-02-2018, 10:42
In Iracing we have a term for this..it's called going "Full-on Scott Speed". It was previously known as going "Full-on Forza Motorsport". Identify them..out them in the forum and move on.

Crash happy kiddies who disconnect a laugh later.

Keep practicing, keep racing, master that Racecraft.

Franco Ferrari
09-02-2018, 11:07
Anyway... do we have any report on recent activity by the as***le reported in the OP?
From the steam account page, the playtime reached 166hrs, an increase of 11 hours in 7 days, so he's fairly active (more than me, anyway).
The username is still the same.

Has he (or she) repented of his evil deeds... or not?!?