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cbrown119
31-01-2018, 20:00
Hello,

I am just beginning to enter the world of tuning and have a question.

The problem is that I am trying to counter-act the side force when the turbo on the Capri kicks in.

I basically loose control when this happens. The side force kicks my rear end to the right. Only on straightaways, when accelerating. On curves, there doesn't seem to be problem. I am heavy on the throttle and I understand that is the majority of the problem. But, if I am more "delicate" with the acceleration, I keep the car under control-but loose a lot of time off my laps.

This is what I've done after reading some similar posts here:

Turned the Viscous LSD to ON

Power and Coast Ramps - this is my question. I read the description, it's in my native language, and I really do not understand what's it is saying.:)

In order to reduce my side force issues - would I INCREASE the ramp angels or REDUCE the angels? I tried both. I think that I feel more control when I INCREASE the angel on both settings. But I'm not sure. I have a slightly better lap time when I reduce the angel, but I have lost control a few times.

What is the proper direction for the Power/Coast Ramp settings to reduce the effects of side force?

or am I totally wrong thinking that these settings will help?

Thanks!

blinkngone
31-01-2018, 20:29
Hello,

I am just beginning to enter the world of tuning and have a question.

The problem is that I am trying to counter-act the side force when the turbo on the Capri kicks in.

I basically loose control when this happens. The side force kicks my rear end to the right. Only on straightaways, when accelerating. On curves, there doesn't seem to be problem. I am heavy on the throttle and I understand that is the majority of the problem. But, if I am more "delicate" with the acceleration, I keep the car under control-but loose a lot of time off my laps.

This is what I've done after reading some similar posts here:

Turned the Viscous LSD to ON

Power and Coast Ramps - this is my question. I read the description, it's in my native language, and I really do not understand what's it is saying.:)

In order to reduce my side force issues - would I INCREASE the ramp angels or REDUCE the angels? I tried both. I think that I feel more control when I INCREASE the angel on both settings. But I'm not sure. I have a slightly better lap time when I reduce the angel, but I have lost control a few times.

What is the proper direction for the Power/Coast Ramp settings to reduce the effects of side force?

or am I totally wrong thinking that these settings will help?

Thanks!

Hi, most people are using the Clutch LSD. I am assuming that you have both the Clutch LSD and Viscous LSD turned on. I agree with your statement "I think that I feel more control when I INCREASE the angel on both settings" in part but the Power Ramp angle increase will help reduce your kick to the rear increasing the Coast ramp angle as well will give you less control on corner entry in my opinion. I have attached an LSD setup from Algarve GP(the PC WR TT time of 1:44.419) but this driver is really good and his Power ramp angle is 40 so you could go higher and leave the Coast ramp at 40. Also look at the Power Ramp angle of Default Stable which is higher. You can also reduce the number of Clutches to 2 from Default 6. I don't agree with the Clutch/Viscous combo but I'll search more setups to see if I can find more who are using your combo.

EDIT, I searched most of the popular GP tracks and I was able to find 1 person using the combo you described, Doxxxx at Laguna Seca so I guess it's possible to use this LSD but most are not choosing it.
WR LSD(mostly Default Loose).
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Default Stable LSD.
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cbrown119
31-01-2018, 21:08
Thank you, Blinkngone.

It’s a lot to digest of what you wrote. I started with default Stable SMS setup, so I didn’t change both LSD’s - just the Viscous. I don’t want to change too much until I figure out what does what.

Like you said, on the default stable setup, the Power ramp begins around 75 (I think). So I only have been changing one click at a time, then test it.

I try your suggestions and plug in those settings and try again tomorrow. Like I said, I’m really new at this, I have been just using the Race Engineer. And my only knowledge on this is reading the description and these forums.

Thanks again. I’ll give it a go tomorrow and probably get back with more questions.

blinkngone
31-01-2018, 21:27
Thank you, Blinkngone.

It’s a lot to digest of what you wrote. I started with default Stable SMS setup, so I didn’t change both LSD’s - just the Viscous. I don’t want to change too much until I figure out what does what.

Like you said, on the default stable setup, the Power ramp begins around 75 (I think). So I only have been changing one click at a time, then test it.

I try your suggestions and plug in those settings and try again tomorrow. Like I said, I’m really new at this, I have been just using the Race Engineer. And my only knowledge on this is reading the description and these forums.

Thanks again. I’ll give it a go tomorrow and probably get back with more questions.

Ok, try Default Stable with the Viscous OFF and clutches at 2 instead of 6 if you have time. Also what Platform are you on? What setting are you using for Throttle Sensitivity in the Configuration Menu? Are you using a wheel or controller?

cbrown119
01-02-2018, 13:56
Ok, try Default Stable with the Viscous OFF and clutches at 2 instead of 6 if you have time. Also what Platform are you on? What setting are you using for Throttle Sensitivity in the Configuration Menu? Are you using a wheel or controller?

I'm on the PC using a controller, for the most part. Throttle sensitivity I have pretty far up there - 80. I'll try these tips tonight. Thanks!

blinkngone
01-02-2018, 14:08
I'm on the PC using a controller, for the most part. Throttle sensitivity I have pretty far up there - 80. I'll try these tips tonight. Thanks!
Ok, I think throttle sensitivity is generally recommended to be lower, say 30%. Also since you are on PC you can use Time Trial to try setups. Sorry, there don't appear to be many controller runs with the Capri.
Go to Time Trial.
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Select the run/ghost/setup you want, must show the gear/wrench in Tuning Setup.
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cbrown119
01-02-2018, 14:46
Ok, I think throttle sensitivity is generally recommended to be lower, say 30%. Also since you are on PC you can use Time Trial to try setups. Sorry, there don't appear to be many controller runs with the Capri.
Go to Time Trial.
249378
Select the run/ghost/setup you want, must show the gear/wrench in Tuning Setup.
249379

Yeah, maybe I should try to lower the throttle sensitivity a little more. In the beginning, I found it hard to find the right combination of settings when I started my career in Formula Rookie. Once I found sucess, I never bothered to change them.

I’ve been using the time trial with Algarve with the capri. I’m definitely not the greatest/fastest driver around....

blinkngone
01-02-2018, 15:02
Ok, well we'll just have to work on helping you improve.:D On 1/29 you ran a 1:52.373 so somehow on your own you improved to 1:49.979 so you are doing something right.:cool: There are people on here who can follow your ghost and make suggestions about improving your driving but first let's get your setup a little sorted. Also, are you sure your controller settings are pretty good?

cbrown119
01-02-2018, 19:34
Just made a 1:47.821!

Just a stable setup with clutches change to 2. Viscous lsd was off.

I still have the side force, but it seems more mild. It could be a combination of the clutch change and me trying to be more easy on the gas...

I’ll keep trying with these settings and see if I can keep improving.

Thanks

cbrown119
01-02-2018, 19:51
I cannot even come close to duplicating my latest time. The side force is killing me on the inclines.

blinkngone
01-02-2018, 21:28
I cannot even come close to duplicating my latest time. The side force is killing me on the inclines.

Ok, sorry you are still having problems but lets try focusing on that 1:47.821 and see if you can get back there. How many laps do you run when you do a TT and what kind of tire temps/pressures are you getting at the end of a lap?
This is your setup before you enter Turn 1 at the start of your TT run.(I downloaded your Ghost)

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cpcdem
01-02-2018, 22:22
Hope you don't mind me stepping in, but I think the most important part to concentrate now is on improving the racing line and hitting the apexes, which will also help with carrying more speed through the corners. I followed your ghost and I am sure this is where you lose most of the time, missing some apexes. Btw, I am saying this being comfortable using a wheel, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to handle such a monster car with a pad...

But in any case, time improvement will come mostly by improving your lines, any way you can manage to do it. Maybe you'd like a few of the faster ghosts to help you visually in that.

blinkngone
01-02-2018, 22:40
Hope you don't mind me stepping in, but I think the most important part to concentrate now is on improving the racing line and hitting the apexes, which will also help with carrying more speed through the corners. I followed your ghost and I am sure this is where you lose most of the time, missing some apexes. Btw, I am saying this being comfortable using a wheel, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to handle such a monster car with a pad...

But in any case, time improvement will come mostly by improving your lines, any way you can manage to do it. Maybe you'd like a few of the faster ghosts to help you visually in that.
Thanks cpcdem, I was hoping you could help. I didn't want to ask because I have certainly bothered you enough.
I think he is having a problem using the controller with this car. His description of the side force messing with him is something I don't experience with this car although I only drive ovals. The side force problem jerks his rear end to the right as far as I can tell from his description. He has only driven 3 cars according to the tracks tracked on the alt. Leaderboard. He made a good run but can't duplicate it. With a wheel doesn't the shifting tend to pull the rear end to the left when changing gears because of the physics? Could you see his rear end pulling to the right when you followed his ghost?

blinkngone
01-02-2018, 23:45
I can find many controller threads for XBOX and PS4 but none for PC, where do I look? Also, cbrown119 you are not alone.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60669-Controller-set-up&p=1469913&viewfull=1#post1469913

cpcdem
01-02-2018, 23:47
Couldn't see that, but then again with the ghosts those things are not always easily visible..

What I saw while driving this car, is that even in straight line it's hard to give full throttle, 1st and second gear I was giving 70%-80% max. But it allows a similar amount of throttle in turns as well, it's important to give it some to carry more speed.

I think the "side force" is exactly that, max acceleration in low gear. To @cbrown: don't worry about losing speed when you not put 100% throttle, put as much as the car can handle and you still get very good acceleration, at least this is what I saw. Sometimes you'll need to use counter steering and I am sure it's hard with a pad, but with more practice you'll handle it better.

blinkngone
02-02-2018, 00:36
Couldn't see that, but then again with the ghosts those things are not always easily visible..

What I saw while driving this car, is that even in straight line it's hard to give full throttle, 1st and second gear I was giving 70%-80% max. But it allows a similar amount of throttle in turns as well, it's important to give it some to carry more speed.

I think the "side force" is exactly that, max acceleration in low gear. To @cbrown: don't worry about losing speed when you not put 100% throttle, put as much as the car can handle and you still get very good acceleration, at least this is what I saw. Sometimes you'll need to use counter steering and I am sure it's hard with a pad, but with more practice you'll handle it better.

Hi, if you look at his first post he tried easier on the throttle "But, if I am more "delicate" with the acceleration, I keep the car under control-but loose a lot of time off my laps." so I think it must be something with his pad settings or FFB configuration. The car should kick/spin to left on the gas not right, I guess, it does for me. I'll try using the trail camera and see though.

EDIT, tried to lose it, the rear steps to left but if I do overcorrect(countersteer) a tad much it kicks back right and I can lose it. Maybe it is because I drive automatic that I don't experience the harshness you guys do.
On the plus side, after I wrecked my car and I mean to the point I crashed the wall and went upside down, once I exited the game and restarted I am suddenly 0.038 faster than before so the mechanics must have done a great job rebuilding it.

cpcdem
02-02-2018, 01:03
You can go full throttle in 1st/2nd gear and it's all ok to you? Especially in bumps I completely lose it this way...But with less throttle it's ok.

blinkngone
02-02-2018, 03:18
You can go full throttle in 1st/2nd gear and it's all ok to you? Especially in bumps I completely lose it this way...But with less throttle it's ok.
Yeah, on the straight section between the grandstands at Algarve. A standing start is difficult but at 18mph in 1st it is easier. When I lose it is always left then right. Yeah I can see where trying to manage the throttle through bumps and curves would be difficult but I think cbrown was saying it kicks on him at gear changes on straights but is more manageable in curves, the kick is what is slowing him down and frustrating him. He said at first reducing the clutches to 2 helped and he is already running a higher power ramp(75) so the only thing I can think of is to drop the preload from 90 down to 40 and see if that helps. If that doesn't work the only thing I can think of is turn on viscous LSD and set it down to around 80 and shut the Clutch LSD off.
Here is what I came up with to reduce the kick, maybe.
249437
249438

cbrown119
02-02-2018, 08:25
Wow, you guys are really putting a lot of effort into this. I really appreciate your time and thoughts about it!!

It's kinda a weird feeling when your ghost is being graded....who would've thunk?

You guys are absolutely right about my driving lines and missing the apexes. I consider myself an average driver on games and if I'm having a good run, I have the tendency to "choke" on the last turn and screw it all up....just like my favorite sports teams.

To answer one of your questions - I can do at best 3 laps during TT. Then I'll take a little break and try again. I'm not sure if there is tire wear on TT, because the fuel stays the same. But, I understand about warming up the tires - I usually have them at 25.

I'll give it go later today with more of your suggestions.

Thanks!

JuZ
02-02-2018, 10:15
I know exactly what's happening I used the BMW in that series and it did the same, all I can suggest is that you short shift on the way out of the tight corners, those Group 5 cars are a handful! Although so far it's been my favourite series to race :D

kludgey
02-02-2018, 12:20
Another aspect that you can look at, and if tyre longevity is not an issue is to increase the rear toe. By default on the Capri it's 0.3 I think. But if you increase this say initially to 0.5, this may be just enough to give you that extra stability. This shouldn't affect your cornering, but should aid the car somewhat in terms of straight-line stability, allowing you to get the power the down. Clearly you've got diff settings that give you what you need in terms of cornering. Another thought, have you considered dropping the tyre pressures at the rear just a smidge?

Also don't forget that peak power in the Capri is not at the red line. Somewhere around 9,200rpm is probably closer to the mark.

blinkngone
02-02-2018, 15:01
Hi cbrown119, I don't know what controller you are using or if it even applies because it is addressing the xbox controller but read the description of the "jerk" when trying to countersteer described in this post.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60669-Controller-set-up&p=1469980&viewfull=1#post1469980

cpcdem
02-02-2018, 17:35
You guys are absolutely right about my driving lines and missing the apexes. I consider myself an average driver on games and if I'm having a good run, I have the tendency to "choke" on the last turn and screw it all up....just like my favorite sports teams.


Then I would suggest to for now forget about beating your previous time and concentrate on the lines and hitting the apexes. It's very hard to do that with such a car, so it needs a lot of practice. But once you're used to taking the corners well, I am sure then the improvement of lap times will come naturally.

Another thing, maybe it would be a good idea to first use a much easier and slower car in the same track to help you find where you should position the car at every corner. Then go back to the Capri, the previous knowledge should help you a lot.

cbrown119
03-02-2018, 22:55
I tried a few laps today....just started from SMS's stable setup - reduced the clutch to 2 and increased the rear toe, as suggested above. I'm getting good consistent times - not 1:47.xxx, but close. Close enough. But I think increasing the rear toe did soften the kick so it is more manageable.

I'm extremely appreciative for everyone's input/suggestions! Good stuff. Good community.

Thanks

blinkngone
03-02-2018, 23:26
I tried a few laps today....just started from SMS's stable setup - reduced the clutch to 2 and increased the rear toe, as suggested above. I'm getting good consistent times - not 1:47.xxx, but close. Close enough. But I think increasing the rear toe did soften the kick so it is more manageable.

I'm extremely appreciative for everyone's input/suggestions! Good stuff. Good community.

Thanks

Hi, happy that you are making progress. As cpcdem noted you have picked a 3lb per horsepower monster with an old tech turbo kick to learn on so that you are sticking to it is remarkable.

kludgey
04-02-2018, 00:48
So in our league we just did a Group 5 race at Road America. I took my base setup to the TT screen and managed a 2:06.300, and there's a bit of time still to be found, but for the PS4 I believe that that is now the fastest Gr. 5 time. Differences from the setup that I'll post below, closed brake ducts and radiato more, upped turbo to 100%, but other than that it's the following setup. But do note, that the tyres gain a lot of pressure due to the excessive toe settings I used. And the setup was created for cooler conditions and for a race of 30minutes duration.

On a side note, this car seems to like being coasted around corners. At least at Road America. If you're locking the brakes too easily, one of our other fast guys ran the brakes at 60%. Never went into the science properly regard to shift point, but anecdotally 9.5k RPM seemed to be the best shift point. With the toe settings as they are, it really lets you get quite aggresive with the throttle. The front end is still a bit off. But it's a quick setup that can certainly be tweaked by someone who can do this better than I do...

As always... YMMV.

https://i.imgur.com/MWtK08M.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bsFnJ1t.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/V7d2urP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YKkwBMx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FjDXd4W.jpg

blinkngone
04-02-2018, 01:46
Hi kludgey, the TT WR for PC is a default run of 2:08.260. Your time is obviously in another league.

Johnnypenso1
07-02-2018, 05:41
I've only driven this car in the current Burnout event but I kept tuning my transmission so that the gears were a little taller and I could start to put the power down before the big turbo rush came on. That way I could start to accelerate while still cornering and by the time I was straight or nearly so that big turbo would kick in and off I'd go.