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twobib
12-02-2018, 09:18
Hi, sorry for my english, I'm french.

We updated the dedicaced server, Everything seemed to work properly, but now we have to much high ping on it. Before update, we we playing at about 80-100 ms., now we have 170 ms minimum.
I tried to connect on other dedicaced server, and it looks like the same.
However, no high ping at all on P2P sessions. I see every other racers with 60-70 ms (I have optical fiber)

We use server.cfg and the rotate_config. Server is with "controlgamesetup : true"

m00lean
12-02-2018, 09:45
I can confirm this. This seems to be the case on every DS after 1.4.

sambat29
12-02-2018, 10:17
Yes, i confirm this too.

cluck
12-02-2018, 10:32
Yup, we (RevolutionSimRacing) noticed this ourselves at the weekend with our dedi-servers.

Rodders
12-02-2018, 12:38
I just created a thread on this then spotted this lol - I'll delete that one and here is what I had to say.

Since the patch, latency to the dedi server has been significantly worse. Ping times to the server that were previously stable for any given user are now jumping all over the place for ALL users and baseline latency seems about twice as high too (hard to tell as the pings jump about so much) which is causing a lot of problems out on track.

This is something I kept a close eye on generally so I know it's not normal. I personally used to have a stable 20-30ms ping to the server and now it's 45-109-75-27-82-130 - all from one moment to the next. The dedi can handle a stable high ping but not one that leaps about like it is now.

This happened last patch for a few days then cleared up so I was expecting the same this time however it doesn't seem to be settling down and a word from someone in the know would put minds at rest. What's causing it would be a great start as I suspect it's something outwith any of us users control (steam back end maybe?)

I tested my physical dedi server both for incoming and outgoing connections and it's low latency and stable - ping times barely fluctuate. The server is way over specced to run the dedi so it's not a resourcing issue. Before patch great - after not, so something in the patch process has caused it.

Continuing as it is isn't an option - we ran our league race on Saturday and the increased lag in a big tightly packed field was a disaster. We finished the race but I wished we'd never started it. No more league or event races can be ran until this is sorted.

If it is expected to settle down a word saying so would be great. Cheers.

Rodders
12-02-2018, 12:41
I should add I also tested by going back to a vanilla dedi server build with the bare minimum done in the server.cfg to get it working and it was the same.

cluck
12-02-2018, 12:47
The devs are aware of the issue and our own league logs and server setup have already been forwarded for investigation.

Rodders
12-02-2018, 12:51
The devs are aware of the issue and our own league logs and server setup have already been forwarded for investigation.

Good stuff - cheers Cluck.

A fix can't wait until the next patch in a few months BTW as it's killed any serious racing for anyone using a dedi that likes less than 100 accidents per hr :)

cluck
12-02-2018, 12:53
Good stuff - cheers Cluck.

A fix can't wait until the next patch in a few months BTW as it's killed any serious racing for anyone using a dedi that likes less than 100 accidents per hr :)I don't doubt the devs are well aware that it can't wait that long :)

It might be worth posting up anonymised logs and server config files in here, just in case. The more info the better I guess.

yons
12-02-2018, 13:08
Hello

I can confirm this too. A lot of abnormal lag when compared to the last version of the game/Dedicated server... If more info is required give me a shout. :)

Rodders
12-02-2018, 13:34
I don't doubt the devs are well aware that it can't wait that long :)

It might be worth posting up anonymised logs and server config files in here, just in case. The more info the better I guess.

Just trying to make sure - the longer patch cycles make me worried.

Happy to supply what's needed - someone relevant need but ask ;)

cluck
12-02-2018, 14:17
Just trying to make sure - the longer patch cycles make me worried.

Happy to supply what's needed - someone relevant need but ask ;)Well, dedi servers are specific to PC and we've seen emergency patches released for PC specific things in the past (ie, with Project CARS 1) so I'm hopeful we'll see the same here. There's no guarantee of course, I have no more knowledge than yourself other than that it is reported - I saw the thread and noticed it matched what our league noticed on Saturday night, so I alerted one of the QA guys right away as I happened to be chatting to him at the time :)

Rodders
12-02-2018, 17:39
Interesting results when I run a ping and then port test to my server on the API port from a few remote locations.

Ping

250001

Port

250002


As soon as the API port is queried, latency shoots up. I've never tried this pre-patch so can't be sure this isn't normal.

Krobo
12-02-2018, 19:10
Thx Cluck for being on the ball ! ;-)

We were pulling hair out of our balled heads trying to figure out what happened ..

Never saw warping and lag like that in pc1 or 2 so we thought for sure something was wrong with our server hardware ..

Coffee & Mt DEW for the dev team on us !

neslane
13-02-2018, 13:51
Is this also happening with -selectds? Somebody experience with that?
And..... is it still playable with 20 drivers now? Had tested the ds only with a few players until now...

m00lean
13-02-2018, 14:35
Two things I've noticed:

1. I see this message a lot lately:
WARNING: User AAAAAAAAAA tried to change attributes of participant 11 owned by player BBBBBBBBBB (index 1, refId 29825), but the target player it not a member of this session

2. If I querry the HTTP API, it causes hickups on the server, sometimes even leading to timeouts and disconnects of players.

MortICi
13-02-2018, 15:43
Two things I've noticed:

1. I see this message a lot lately:
WARNING: User AAAAAAAAAA tried to change attributes of participant 11 owned by player BBBBBBBBBB (index 1, refId 29825), but the target player it not a member of this session

2. If I querry the HTTP API, it causes hickups on the server, sometimes even leading to timeouts and disconnects of players.

Question:

If you disable the HTTP api in the server.cfg file, restart the DS is the lag still present?

ChokDK
13-02-2018, 18:04
Confirming as well..
P2P : Ping = 91.

250084

Dedicated server: Ping = 211

250085

Krobo
13-02-2018, 18:55
Is this also happening with -selectds? Somebody experience with that?
And..... is it still playable with 20 drivers now? Had tested the ds only with a few players until now...

Yes -selectds has warp and ping spikes for us on our rack service DS ,

satco1066
13-02-2018, 22:29
-selectDS is just a workaround for creating a MP / Multiclass session BEFORE connecting to any server.
If you connect to a DS dirctly you cannot select MultiClass.

After that it does not influence the connection to the DS

MortICi
14-02-2018, 03:20
-selectDS is just a workaround for creating a MP / Multiclass session BEFORE connecting to any server.
If you connect to a DS dirctly you cannot select MultiClass.

After that it does not influence the connection to the DS

Yes and no, if you see my thread stickied at the top of this section, there is a fix for Multi-Class and dedi servers that doesn't require any workaround just config and go.

I am interested to see if disabling the HTTP api in the server.cfg reduces the ping spike.

Additionally, can you confirm that ALL ports listed in the server.cfg are open, Viktor confirmed that they changed the reqs and the steamhost and steamquery aren't enough you need to have all three listed there open for the DS to work properly.

DO NOT OPEN THE 9000 port for the HTTP api....

I know the Linux guys were having unjoinable sessions, i wonder if the winbox guys are affected by ping spikes.

neslane
14-02-2018, 05:52
I am interested to see if disabling the HTTP api in the server.cfg reduces the ping spike.

Additionally, can you confirm that ALL ports listed in the server.cfg are open, Viktor confirmed that they changed the reqs and the steamhost and steamquery aren't enough you need to have all three listed there open for the DS to work properly.


I had tested it yesterday, http to false and all players had high pings....
Ports are all forwarded correctly.

cluck
14-02-2018, 12:08
Yes and no, if you see my thread stickied at the top of this section, there is a fix for Multi-Class and dedi servers that doesn't require any workaround just config and go.

I am interested to see if disabling the HTTP api in the server.cfg reduces the ping spike.

Additionally, can you confirm that ALL ports listed in the server.cfg are open, Viktor confirmed that they changed the reqs and the steamhost and steamquery aren't enough you need to have all three listed there open for the DS to work properly.

DO NOT OPEN THE 9000 port for the HTTP api....

I know the Linux guys were having unjoinable sessions, i wonder if the winbox guys are affected by ping spikes.At RevolutionSimRacing we run dedicated servers on both Linux and Windows servers. We have no problem connecting to them but all the servers, across both platforms, exhibit the same problem.

re. disabling HTTP, that actually stopped the server from being accessible when we tested last night (I saw your post and asked the guy in charge of one of the servers to try it)

ChokDK
14-02-2018, 12:55
I see SMS has started working at server software today, let's hope for a (working) quick fix soon :)

Rodders
14-02-2018, 14:42
I see SMS has started working at server software today, let's hope for a (working) quick fix soon :)

I hope so. Dedi's are essential for club presence and running leagues among other things.

MortICi
14-02-2018, 20:01
At RevolutionSimRacing we run dedicated servers on both Linux and Windows servers. We have no problem connecting to them but all the servers, across both platforms, exhibit the same problem.

re. disabling HTTP, that actually stopped the server from being accessible when we tested last night (I saw your post and asked the guy in charge of one of the servers to try it)

Ok then this might be an actual binary issue. I will see if I can get someone into my server and check ping times (1Gbps fibre).

Rodders
15-02-2018, 11:13
Yes and no, if you see my thread stickied at the top of this section, there is a fix for Multi-Class and dedi servers that doesn't require any workaround just config and go.

I am interested to see if disabling the HTTP api in the server.cfg reduces the ping spike.

Additionally, can you confirm that ALL ports listed in the server.cfg are open, Viktor confirmed that they changed the reqs and the steamhost and steamquery aren't enough you need to have all three listed there open for the DS to work properly.

DO NOT OPEN THE 9000 port for the HTTP api....

I know the Linux guys were having unjoinable sessions, i wonder if the winbox guys are affected by ping spikes.

I've reverted to a completely vanilla server build - no lua, no API - stock everything apart from the ports I use for the server (which are the same as they were previously) - increased latency on the dedi servers remained.

Also it is not just a higher basline latency, the biggest problem is the latency is all over the place - 34-56-103-56-92-130 and so on. It is leaping about constantly for every player. It's this leaping about that is causing most of the issues as the server can handle a stable high ping (we have 2 people in New Zealand race with us who have 300 pings pre-patch and they were generally fine to race close against) but not one that is constantly leaping about.

I see a patch has just been put out - read that it fixes the audio glitch in another thread here. Has it dealt with this one? Be home later to check but be good to know.

Rodders
15-02-2018, 12:36
Found this thread - http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60908-Unofficial-issue-list-Post-Patch-4-0

No fix yet for the dedi and no word on whether there will be a quick fix. We wait. I'm giving it a week then will have to consider moving the club to another game so we can run a league. P2P simply doesn't cut it for large grids and league races where server stability, low latency and consistency of experience is very important.

Just not convinced this is a big enough problem for enough people to warrant it being fixed outwith the main patch cycle. I really hope I'm wrong.

ChokDK
15-02-2018, 16:15
Hmm... they haven't found time or something to work at the dedi server today so far.
I only play this game online so yeah.. if no hotfix within a week or so, other games are next option for a long time.

https://steamdb.info/app/413770/history/

Rodders
15-02-2018, 17:57
I’m wondering why the change isn’t rolled back. I’ve worked within some of the most stringent IT change controls you can possibly imagine down to the most basic and in every single case, if the change you made broke something, it was rolled back immediately or fixed forward and fixed forward quickly. Included in that was communication to your customer explaining what was going on.

Anyone guess what’s missing here?

- rollback
- fix forward
- customer communication
- all of the above

Good luck :D

cpcdem
15-02-2018, 18:09
I assume a rollback would most likely rollback also the fixes done for the DS in patch 4 and they want to avoid that. But yeah, I also think some new issues need a quick fix, please don't let us wait 2-3 months.

Rossi46 (NL)
15-02-2018, 18:14
I assume a rollback would most likely rollback also the fixes done for the DS in patch 4 and they want to avoid that. But yeah, I also think some new issues need a quick fix, please don't let us wait 2-3 months.

If we have to wait that long some of the bigger racing groups probably will switch to other racing sims.

Krobo
15-02-2018, 18:43
STEAM just now downloaded/installed a 29.3 mb up date for for my PC2 .. anyone else?

Hopeful that Maybe this is a DS hot fix ?

Rodders
15-02-2018, 18:47
It’s an audio glitch fix.

Charger
16-02-2018, 10:14
I am going to be brutally honest here, I love this game and my club does to, it has reinvigorated our racing and we have had a massive influx of players too, we only play online and we only run dedi servers which are closely monitored and they are clean and highly populated but this issue is going to cripple our club that has been going strong for 10 years.

This needs to be fixed immediately as I and other players in our club are already looking at alternatives to be able to host league races as we need the admin control and other aspects that go with it.

P2P is fine for our daily random races but we have noticed that people that want to ram realise that they can just rejoin and the quality of racing has gone downhill, we have to wait until the 3 minute marker to be able to make sure they can't rejoin for the race which is a pain so we have started to set A and S rated lobbies, it really is hurting the club and I am sure it is hurting others that like structured and clean racing.

This bug is probably the most important thing that needs fixing in this game for online players, I know it doesn't affect offline and those people will say other things need fixing but when you have a large community like we have which is growing daily this is really going to hurt.

We have put our next league on hold and our previous ones have been a blast, we also have monthly crossover events with ART racing and this is going to have to go on hold also and as said we are not alone in this and other clubs are suffering the same fate.

SMS please fix this asap before we and yourselves lose a large playerbase to other sims that we really don't want to play.

I have defended this game on a lot of aspects that I thought were not a game breaker and could be worked around but I cannot defend this, it has killed the experience.

We have encouraged a lot of players to buy this game based on our experience and although we are a 'drop in the ocean' we can't at this time recommend any new players to buy it which is a damn shame.

Charger.

Daynja
16-02-2018, 10:42
I am going to be brutally honest here, I love this game and my club does to, it has reinvigorated our racing and we have had a massive influx of players too, we only play online and we only run dedi servers which are closely monitored and they are clean and highly populated but this issue is going to cripple our club that has been going strong for 10 years.

This needs to fixed immediately as I and other players in our club are already looking at alternatives to be able to host league races as we need the admin control and other aspects that go with it.

P2P is fine for our daily random races but we have noticed that people that want to ram realise that they can just rejoin and the quality of racing has gone downhill, we have to wait until the 3 minute marker to be able to make sure they can't rejoin for the race which is a pain so we have started to set A and S rated lobbies, it really is hurting the club and I am sure it is hurting others that like structured and clean racing.

This bug is probably the most important thing that needs fixing in this game for online players, I know it doesn't affect offline and those people will say other things need fixing but when you have a large community like we have which is growing daily this is really going to hurt.

We have put our next league on hold and our previous ones have been a blast, we also have monthly crossover events with ART racing and this is going to have to go on hold also and as said we are not alone in this and other clubs are suffering the same fate.

SMS please fix this asap before we and yourselves lose a large playerbase to other sims that we really don't want to play.

I have defended this game on a lot of aspects that I thought were not a game breaker and could be worked around but I cannot defend this, it has killed the experience.

We have encouraged a lot of players to buy this game based on our experience and although we are a 'drop in the ocean' we can't at this time recommend any new players to buy it which is a damn shame.

Charger.

To extend on what Charger has already said about the quality of life currently on 1.4 dedis

The latency is causing many unnecessary contact issues. We as a club invite players that race well and understand close racing and whats involved in being at the right distance to be in contention for the next corner. Very rarely do we have clusterfk levels of incidents but when 1.4 dropped on Friday last we had our league race the very next night and it was an awful experience. Cars were not were actually we saw them on our screens and some of our veteran drivers had made contact with the guy in front whilst seeing and feeling nothing yet the poor sod infront got enough of a tap to send their car into one of the many walls at Long Beach. It was a total shambles.

The there is the very very bad stuttering. I run triples and was using the triple screen feature. I used to run it on very mild settings. A few mediums and mostly lows to keep a steady 60 fps running 7660x1080 or 7880x1080 bezel corrected. There are and always have been some stuttering going on with the triple screen feature since day 1 but since 1.4 its gone mental. However even other members who run 980s/1070s or 1080s on a sibngle sreen in which they can have many settings on max/high and get total smoothness are nwo suffering the same sort of stutters I am just not as exaggerated as its just one screen.

This really is terrible. The stuttering is so noticeable that it is extremely off putting to the point where my brain suffers some form of mental pause because the motion on screen has gone out of whack (25-35fps juttering levels). Its always in race. In qualy we dont seem to suffer this nearly as badly. The stuttering is always when your about to comer.

The worst two tracks ive witnessed so far is the final turn at Redbull Ring, the stuttering here is so high the hitching is nauseous , and the final sector on Oulton Park (double right hander with all the heavy tree shadows). Its an absolute nightmare whatever is going on with the netcode atm. P2P is affected also but its not nearly as bad. in single player ive not noticed anything but my usual fps drops on certain high detail tracks although Oulton has always stuttered on the final sector corners since day one, even if shadows are disables and visuals set all to low/off, but the current hitching has been magnified by the recent update.


So to summarize. This patch is terrible and the online experience has really suffered for it.


Sorry SMS i know you put a lot of work into the patch but those fixes are being overshadowed by the terrible online experience currently with 1.4

nepal roade
16-02-2018, 11:34
well we've all paid our money. This is the time we get to see how the other side of this contract works out. :ambivalence:

Warmos
16-02-2018, 11:53
I only race in dedis there is no good racing in p2p. So im off until this is fixed. i love the game but its unplayable now. At least for me.

rich1e I
16-02-2018, 13:16
The purpose of the safety rank was to create clean racing in lobbies. I understand the RWB approach to open the lobby to everyone and monitor the lobby, but I think at this point after almost 6 months after release there should be enough people with medium/high safety rank so people should be able to join B/A/S lobbies, a rammer couldn't. Why not use this powerful feature? You can still invite club members with a lower SR into your lobby.

Charger
16-02-2018, 14:52
We try and cater for all skill levels, we have brought players up from U to S and they have learn't to be clean, if we keep limiting to B/A/S we are cutting out new players who while may be new will probably have raced in sim racing games before and have the skills needed already to be clean but are looked down on because they are U/F/E etc.

There are a few reasons why dedi's are important.

1. It gives us an API that more than one person can have therefore the host does not have to stop racing and kick someone, at any one time there can be 4 admins in the server who all have access to the API and can boot a player at any time and that boot is permanent and they can't rejoin the server, if needed we can blacklist them by Steam ID so they can never join again, period, hell the person doesn't even have to be racing or have the game running to boot someone, we get a call out and whoever is available sorts it.

2. The API gives us a lot of info on pings and stats, we can monitor pings and advise players with spurious erratic pings to either leave or stop downloading or try and refresh their router before we ask them to leave or they get a boot.

3. We can draw stats from the json files in the dedi to export to simresults which we use to convert to league tables and it also shows consistency, incidents, fastest lap, sectors etc etc, all good info for the admins.

4.The dedi is always on so anyone who wants to join can hop on anytime of the day 24hrs a day and be a host and set the race to their own requirements, we don't enforce any rules the dedi doesn't control the server set up.

5. Prior to the patch the dedi was stable and pings were good as it is run on a dedicated PC that is hosted on a fibre connection, creating P2P lobbies relies on the creator to have a good PC and a good internet connection to keep it stable for up to 32 players, some people run P2P on 'Potatoes' and it shows, there are a few of us who have excellent equipment and connections to run a P2P but we are not always around 24hrs a day so it comes down to setting a specific server up.

6. The dedi's can also be remotely rebooted or admin'd from anywhere from a laptop or phone if needed, they can also be set as required for a fixed race or passworded for a closed race.

7. Other groups have used our dedi's for testing purposes and also sub groups of members have used them for their friends to have a little fun while we race on our public dedi.

8. We have 3 dedi's one open, one locked and one for practice, we can add more at any time on request.

There are a lot more reasons and as you can see P2P doesn't cut that, once the host goes the session is gone.

Rodders
16-02-2018, 15:18
The purpose of the safety rank was to create clean racing in lobbies. I understand the RWB approach to open the lobby to everyone and monitor the lobby, but I think at this point after almost 6 months after release there should be enough people with medium/high safety rank so people should be able to join B/A/S lobbies, a rammer couldn't. Why not use this powerful feature? You can still invite club members with a lower SR into your lobby.

Hi rich, the safety rating helps a lot but doesn’t eliminate bad drivers. Monitoring is always essential. Also need to monitor for latency issues and kick players as necessary. So we do use that feature but it just helps, not eliminate the need to physically admin the servers.

Charger
16-02-2018, 15:26
The purpose of the safety rank was to create clean racing in lobbies. I understand the RWB approach to open the lobby to everyone and monitor the lobby, but I think at this point after almost 6 months after release there should be enough people with medium/high safety rank so people should be able to join B/A/S lobbies, a rammer couldn't. Why not use this powerful feature? You can still invite club members with a lower SR into your lobby.

Also Rich on another note, if we can invite lower rated players so can anyone that joins the server, so an S rated player could invite his U rated rammer mate and also it means they have to be on your Steam friends list, a lot of people that join RWB or race with us are added to Steam after they have raced with us and proved they are clean and they like the lobbies, that is where most of our recruitment comes from, we do actively recruit but gain far more players by proving our servers are clean and they ask to be added, think of the dedi server as a good meeting place.

Rodders
16-02-2018, 16:09
To put it another way, you dont stick 20 rubber from quicksave on your car for a quality and safe driving experience, you use premium rubber. Sure the cheap stuff works and gets you from A to B but the entire time you use it the driving experience isn’t quite the way you want it. P2P is the cheap rubber, the dedi is premium. Want a healthy club, need premium. Currently my Pirelli P1’s have a slash in the sidewall and I’d like it fixed ASAP or I’m off elsewhere to buy a new set :)

Charger
16-02-2018, 16:57
Ok so the damper saturation thread which has no bearing at all on the quality of online or offline gaming gets a response from SMS but a game breaking issue which effectively kills any type of structured online racing is just being plainly ignored!

Good job on priorities SMS, even an acknowledgement would be nice.

People's patience is wearing thin.......

rich1e I
16-02-2018, 17:27
Alright, I think I just misunderstood and didn't get what the main issue was. Of course dedi servers > P2P. I'm not familiar with the RWB system of recruitment etc. I still think using the SR as a filter should be the way to go. I don't think that an S ranked driver has rammer friends and helps them to ruin people's races, plus I think if someone is an experienced simracer he knows what games are about to be released and gets the game at release or shortly after that. 6 months are in now, if you're a simracer and not an AC fanboy or part of the racedepartment anti pCARS cavalry you already own the game.

Rygel
16-02-2018, 17:28
Well.. The poor fella did post in his own thread 20 odd times in an effort to get an answer!

Rodders
16-02-2018, 17:39
Well.. The poor fella did post in his own thread 20 odd times in an effort to get an answer!

Lol fair play to him. So I just need to keep posting more. I can do that. Does saying fix the dedi over and over count or do I have to keep coming up with new and interesting ways to say the same thing? I could write a song? Stop the Pigeon from Dick Dastardly and Mutley would do it but renamed “Fix the dedi”. I’ll get on it. :D

AlGartner
16-02-2018, 22:20
Is anyone to answer there ? Everybody gone ? was just passing by for info update about dedi's fix in progress :peaceful: , saw some light so walked in, found none to talk to about how great league racing on DS are great for learning, enjoying, recruiting, sharing, mastering online multiplayer, and how a waste it would be - regarding a great sim as Pcars2 - throwing this available blessing out the window for no good reason...yeh i know we all are short of time, no hard feelings :cool:

Redster
17-02-2018, 10:50
Some form of acknowledgement from SMS that this issue even exists would really be appreciated at this point. Online is a mess right now - lots of disappointed people just waiting to hear that it might one day be fixed. The longer its left like this the less existing players will play and new players will just think the game is b0rked and go back to RF2 or whatever.

cpcdem
17-02-2018, 13:36
Guys, not at all to say that the problems you are having are not real, but is it really that bad? Last night I had a few races at TCSR's dedi server (around 15 cars on average) and we had great racing, very close wheel to wheel battles, lag did not seem to cause noticeable troubles. About the P2P lobbies, they seem to be more or less ok, similar to what they were pre patch 4. Of course I realize having 30 cars is maybe a completely different story, have not participated in a race with that many opponents for a while.

neslane
17-02-2018, 13:52
but is it really that bad?

Yep..... 4 drivers on our server and everyone had a 200-350 ping.... sometimes its "ok" but most of the time with more drivers its unplayable for us. :(

Charger
17-02-2018, 14:01
Yep..... 4 drivers on our server and everyone had a 200-350 ping.... sometimes its "ok" but most of the time with more drivers its unplayable for us. :(

Yeah, same here, pings are high, most of the time it's ok even with the high pings but when they spike then lag gets nasty, having a stable high ping wouldn't really be a problem but they are totally unstable.

My ping is usually sub 60 easily but has trebled and has hit 1000 at times, that's when the shit hits the fan, this has been tested by more than one club, the P2P seems Ok mostly.

This really needs some response from the devs urgently!

cpcdem
17-02-2018, 14:04
Yep..... 4 drivers on our server and everyone had a 200-350 ping.... sometimes its "ok" but most of the time with more drivers its unplayable for us. :(

Yeah, a 350 ping is bad I agree. We didn't seem to have that, wondering if it's also a configuration thing, maybe the new version of the dedi doesn't like "something" in certain configurations...

Charger
17-02-2018, 14:08
Yeah, a 350 ping is bad I agree. We didn't seem to have that, wondering if it's also a configuration thing, maybe the new version of the dedi doesn't like "something" in certain configurations...

Honestly cpc it has been tested by numerous people with numerous configs and vanilla, it makes no difference at all, not just on our server.

cpcdem
17-02-2018, 14:15
Honestly cpc it has been tested by numerous people with numerous configs and vanilla, it makes no difference at all, not just on our server.

Of course I believe you. Just wondering what was different for us yesterday, finding the difference might help pinpointing the root of the problem, because maybe the devs possibly have not managed to reproduce the problems themselves (I agree though, any kind of feedback from them would be extremely helpful). Unfortunately I cannot locate the dedi server from tcsr right now, maybe it is down. Will check it again tonight if it is available and pay more close attention to the ping times.

Rodders
17-02-2018, 14:18
Guys, not at all to say that the problems you are having are not real, but is it really that bad? Last night I had a few races at TCSR's dedi server (around 15 cars on average) and we had great racing, very close wheel to wheel battles, lag did not seem to cause noticeable troubles. About the P2P lobbies, they seem to be more or less ok, similar to what they were pre patch 4. Of course I realize having 30 cars is maybe a completely different story, have not participated in a race with that many opponents for a while.

Cpc - Our league race last week (the finale) was a disaster due to the dedi server lag. Cars were out of position all over the place and that resulted in a huge number of crashes. We ran 7 rounds fine previously before the patch. The dedi is next to useless atm even for small fields.

P2P as you say, only works with less than 20 cars and after that is too risky for organised races.

Yes it is this bad. Id not be taking the action I am otherwise as this is hurting my club. People are now talking about what else they can play. Id do anything to avoid this situation.

Rodders
17-02-2018, 14:33
OK simple equation first. Pre patch 7 league races successfully ran and dedi server performance pretty damn good. Post patch league race a disaster. Nothing else changed my end apart from dedi update.

In addition I have FTTP with 80Mbit down and 20 up and zero contention. I have a very good internet connection with very low latency and I run the dedi in a dmz which further improves network efficiency.

The root of the problem is whatever they done to the dedi and sms have to fix it. If it waits until the next patch in a few months time we are done with PCars2 and we won’t be the only club. The lack of any response here from sms is really really disappointing and is ruining what is an otherwise excellent game in many ways.

One reason this is upsetting me so much is firstly because it’s hurting my club and secondly because we had been enjoying PCars2 so much. It’s a fantastic sim and this situation is ruining it. If I’m forced to go through the pain to move the club to another Sim I’ll never come back to pcars. Even telling us sorry we won’t be able to fix this for a while and tell us why, I’d respect, but this silence is absolute bull. Even if they fix it tomorrow I’m still going to be left with a bad taste.

cpcdem
17-02-2018, 14:46
Guys, I feel for you and in no way I am saying there is some problem with your server and/or configuration. Others have also recently reported the same problems, so obviously this problem was created by patch 4, not an issue at your end.

On the other hand, as I said I personally had a good experience with a dedicated server race yesterday, we were around 15 (touring) cars in Oulton park, for 7 laps in a row I had a close fight with another 2 guys wheel to wheel and we had managed not to touch each other even once, lag wasn't a problem. So trying to figure out what made the difference, maybe some specific configuration option in their server caused the lag problem to not manifest itself? Maybe it was just because there were not too many cars (I think at max we had 18-19 in another race)? Any information like that will likely help the devs to get to the root of the problem more quickly.

Rodders
17-02-2018, 15:11
Appreciate the thoughts cpc.

On your last one about more info for the devs, since no one official has even done us the courtesy of a single response I have to assume they haven’t even read any of this and I’m just wasting my time so why bother?

neslane
17-02-2018, 15:32
Like Rodders said many people reported it... :/
We have the problem with vanilla and with custom server.cfg and rotatescript etc.... There is definitly something not correct with the dedicated.

We tested it with 1,2,3 up to 6 players on a trackday server before our latest cup round and it was not playable. Teleportation etc....

Our latest Round on Hockenheim was over P2P. With 14 People it was ok... but NO simresults... Risk of disconnecting...I have to create it 1 hour before start ingame and have to be in the game all the time etc...

It is really frustrating at the moment, Championship mode is only working with invite and there are setupbugs. Only solution is the regular P2P Lobby now. :(


I hope there is coming a hotfix the next days, maybe we have a little bit luck with that.

Rossi46 (NL)
18-02-2018, 09:08
Still not a single answer from SMS.......

hophans
18-02-2018, 09:28
last and only answer from SMS was this:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60851-DS-patch-4-Linux-server-unjoinable&p=1474819&viewfull=1#post1474819

I can only assume that the network issues is the same issue that causes very high ping rates as well

Charger
19-02-2018, 13:49
Any news on this?

That is 2 large racing clubs now that have stopped their leagues due to the DS not working correctly.

Come on SMS you are losing players fast!

Rodders
19-02-2018, 15:39
Got this message from an SMS representative via the Project Cars 2 Discord server

"The issues with DS are being looked into yes"

Have asked for ETA but no response yet.

FxUK
19-02-2018, 15:43
With this ping issue and the licence awarding lapped as if they came 2nd... I haven't bothered playing the last few days.
Player counts are low too. 1/2 that of AC and 24k less than ETS2 (lol).

Besides that, as of late, I have not seen RWB online, although full lobbies being hidden may explain that too.
I enjoyed racing on the dedi, because lag wasn't an issue and with RWB guys the licence calc wasn't a problem either. Lapping rammers / spinners just isn't a thing, unlike random public sessions.

Even though nothing has changed my end, most lobbies I have joined since 1.4 seem to have ping issues (even P2P) and sometimes even major spikes where you stutter/freeze for 3/4s preventing you from making the turn you was just approaching. I haven't had it this bad before. Previously it was a small millisecond stutter that I could still handle a corner during, annoying, but manageable. It could be my end... but all my ping tests and connection tests say its not.

Anyway, SMS's silence on this and the licence calc issue have "got to me" and I can't be bothered with it atm.

Charger
19-02-2018, 15:59
We have been putting up P2P lobbies, there is one every night, it is really hurting our community and others though, it needs fixing quick!

cpcdem
19-02-2018, 16:00
Having high pings is a big problem indeed, but not racing because the rating calculation does not (sometimes) make sense? Why not just race for the fun and excitement online racing offers, without paying much attention to a number thing that has caused so much controversy?

FxUK
19-02-2018, 16:24
Having high pings is a big problem indeed, but not racing because the rating calculation does not (sometimes) make sense? Why not just race for the fun and excitement online racing offers, without paying much attention to a number thing that has caused so much controversy?


Racing in a lobby where most cars are rubber banding / lagging all over the track, isn't fun, its very off putting and causes the race to turn into one similar to a public lobby, except this time, the accidents are just that.. and not on purpose. The licence is just one more thing to add to my frustration...

The lack of lobbies / online players doesn't help either, it's either.. race in a crap environment and get frustrated.. or don't bother.
I guess I have just had enough of it. I find the AI more fulfilling than a public MP lobby.

Anyway... sorry for the rant and going a bit off topic... but I miss the RWB dedicated server :)

Rodders
19-02-2018, 17:00
Hopefully back soon FX - just got word a fix is currently in testing so positive sign. It seems if you want to get a response from SMS, use their PCars Discord server.

TBH thinking about it RWB is now exactly the same. Our forums are quite quiet and Discord is our main social hub now.

But yeah I agree that even on p2p, multiplayer since the patch has just felt less consistent and robust. I've not had one race that was as good an experience as those on our dedi server pre-patch. Always one anomaly or another to get around.

If I'm brutally honest the entire PCars MP system, and certainly the dedi server, needs completely re-designed (I thought it would be for PCars2 as I was never satisfied with it in PCars1). Having ran game servers for many other games in my time, it's one of the least robust I've ever used and seems to be some sort of client-server p2p hybrid that isn't quite sure what it's supposed to be. To put it another way , it kind of works but I'm always surprised it does :)

What it does do well is it's extremely light on server requirements to run it (CPU and RAM) howerver I'd rather have a true client-server model and take the pain on the server side more. That's a better basis for a solid and robust MP experience, in my opinion.

Carlos Eduardo Araujo
19-02-2018, 22:10
Just to contribute with all the words already said here, I ALWAYS played with a ping between 190-240 (Brazil) and before the Patch worked perfectly.

After Patch 1.4 it is impossible to play, in ALL the tracks these micro-locking problems happen.

At this point I'm playing other games, until I get this problem fixed and I can have fun again.

Unfortunately we look forward to the fixes that are coming, but with such a problem it is impossible to play.

cpcdem
20-02-2018, 03:39
For the first time I also had those lag spikes tonight, and it was indeed bad. Doesn't happen in all lobbies though, I had some other races which went perfectly. Obviously has also something to do with the players themselves, maybe when there are one or two with big ping, the game does not handle the situation well, as it used to pre patch 4? Or something along these lines...

Bealdor
21-02-2018, 11:15
FYI:


V4.0.0.2 0991

Dedicated Server Fixes

* Improve pings between players when using Dedicated Server.
* Resolves issues joining Dedicated Servers running on some hosting configurations.

demand34
21-02-2018, 11:20
Thanks for the ping fix on dedis.

Any update with the weather issue yet?

Rodders
21-02-2018, 11:26
Will be testing tonight when I get home. Fan-bloomin tastic :)

m00lean
21-02-2018, 11:33
Touristenfahrten #2 is updated already. Feel free to test the latency there.

Edit: I just monitored two drivers on the server. One fluctuated between 55 and 65ms, the other between 18 and 25ms. Looks good so far :)

Carlos Eduardo Araujo
21-02-2018, 12:09
Will be test today, but i very happy for SMS listen users and make an Patch to solve and capital problem.

m00lean
21-02-2018, 13:34
Thanks for the ping fix on dedis.

Any update with the weather issue yet?
Nope. That problem still exists apparently.

yons
21-02-2018, 14:05
Nope. That problem still exists apparently.

I thought the weather problem was fixed. What are you talking about?

m00lean
21-02-2018, 14:14
I thought the weather problem was fixed. What are you talking about?

I thought the same, but it still occurs at least on dedicated servers. Just today I was made aware that in a foggy session it was light clouds for some people.

Charger
21-02-2018, 14:34
Not tested yet but if it's fixed then Thankyou SMS ;-)

Visceral_Syn
21-02-2018, 14:37
Just to add, I have not updated my server yet. On server version 1.0.0.57 I'm getting the weather, I have configured. When I get home from work, I will update to 1.0.0.59 to see if the weather problem has been reintroduced.

neslane
21-02-2018, 14:49
No Problems here with the weather since patch 4 on dedicated......But every race only 1 Clear slot testet yet. I think the ping is now ok (tested with some drivers)

Hamdridge
21-02-2018, 15:04
Tested it earlier with a few people in it, fairly stable, with all the cars looking pretty normal, no mad sliding everywhere.
250514
Thanks to the RWB guys for lending us some testers.

ChokDK
21-02-2018, 16:32
Looking forward to a test later on.
Good job if the ping is down again!

Rodders
21-02-2018, 22:40
Just finished a nights racing on our dedi server and it was absolutely spot on. Pings all back to normal, stable and none of us seen any instances of lag or oddly moving cars in fact it felt better than I ever remember it. So well done whatever you did. It worked. :)

FxUK
21-02-2018, 23:06
Just finished a nights racing on our dedi server and it was absolutely spot on. Pings all back to normal, stable and none of us seen any instances of lag or oddly moving cars in fact it felt better than I ever remember it. So well done whatever you did. It worked. :)

Yeah, everything was good tonight.. especially from where I was sitting, at the back :)

Charger
21-02-2018, 23:07
You were up my hole ya bugger.

FxUK
21-02-2018, 23:10
You were up my hole ya bugger.

Yeah, that was great fun, especially without lagging involved ;)

Charger
21-02-2018, 23:12
Yeah, good job SMS, you did us proud, I very rarely moan but with this it was a 'big un' and you sorted it quickly, have a beer on me ;-)

Also didn't notice any joining or leaving hitches, in fact I didn't notice any network issues, server crashed once earlier but that was our end we think.

jimortality
21-02-2018, 23:20
Yeah, good job SMS, you did us proud, I very rarely moan but with this it was a 'big un' and you sorted it quickly, have a beer on me ;-)

Also didn't notice any joining or leaving hitches, in fact I didn't notice any network issues, server crashed once earlier but that was our end we think.

What about start line mess? I always get lag and crap on the start of a race.

Charger
21-02-2018, 23:22
What about start line mess? I always get lag and crap on the start of a race.

No, all seems in sync, no ghosted cars on the start line as yet, you need to jump on with us Jim.

Rodders
22-02-2018, 07:35
What about start line mess? I always get lag and crap on the start of a race.

We are talking about the dedi server performance after the patch yesterday Jim. You appear to be talking about general problems prior to the patch and likely on p2p.

Last night was pretty much perfect and we were racing clios in extremely close proximity.

drathuu
22-02-2018, 11:12
Tested out our server tonight, much more stable.. with most people hovering around 100ms.. Amusingly though the night before we hosted a round of our championship with myself as P2P host and everyone had around 50ms.. (ill have the server checked) - on same net connection.. so would appear its still slower than my p2p setup.. (or server wasnt coping).

One interesting thing, 2 of the guys got disconnected at the same time (both in different states).. may have just been a network glitch... and they were both unlucky through same routing.. Ill keep an eye on it.

Otherwise it seems much improved.. thanks for the patch.

FxUK
22-02-2018, 19:57
Tested out our server tonight, much more stable.. with most people hovering around 100ms.. Amusingly though the night before we hosted a round of our championship with myself as P2P host and everyone had around 50ms.. (ill have the server checked) - on same net connection.. so would appear its still slower than my p2p setup.. (or server wasnt coping).

One interesting thing, 2 of the guys got disconnected at the same time (both in different states).. may have just been a network glitch... and they were both unlucky through same routing.. Ill keep an eye on it.

Otherwise it seems much improved.. thanks for the patch.

From my end, a player on RWB's dedi and not a host (so I can't see the right info) It does seem that way, kind of. As in the ping did seem worse than the previous night via p2p, although all I have to go on is a coloured triangle.

These are not a great comparison because of different people in the lobby, a different 'host location' and of course, from my perspective too, but still.

i.e
RWB Speedmon91 - similar between both
RWB Banksy_Kai - Green on p2p, yellow on dedicated
RWB Rodders - Green on p2p, yellow on dedicated
RWB Wired 24/7 - similar between both.

I guess this relates to me not connecting directly to those players via the dedicated server, whereas I am in p2p.
But, even with that... everything was perfect via the dedicated server, not a single sign of lag. In p2p, when somebody has a terrible ping, its very noticeable.

This is p2p
https://i.imgur.com/lJJLFkf.jpg

This is dedicated server.
https://i.imgur.com/ROYoW4A.jpg

jimortality
22-02-2018, 20:10
No, all seems in sync, no ghosted cars on the start line as yet, you need to jump on with us Jim.

Yes I will do but I'm on nights tonight and tomorrow so Saturday is my first available session

jimortality
22-02-2018, 20:12
We are talking about the dedi server performance after the patch yesterday Jim. You appear to be talking about general problems prior to the patch and likely on p2p.

Last night was pretty much perfect and we were racing clios in extremely close proximity.

Dedi, P2P, I just press buttons and race lol

twobib
22-02-2018, 21:33
Well, we just raced tonight, and no ping problem at all... Thanks to the last (little) update !!!
But now, stats are broken...

Pffff, always the same with SMS, when you correct a bug, but you are creating another one...

Victor Khomskiy
23-02-2018, 05:27
Hello. Just wanted to comment about p2p vs DS ping values, so it's not confusing.
It is expected to generally see higher pings to the same people while playing DS games.

In that case all traffic has to go through the server.
Players close to each other will most likely suffer extra hop that won't be there in p2p (where players connect directly).

dam09fr
23-02-2018, 06:53
Hello. Just wanted to comment about p2p vs DS ping values, so it's not confusing.
It is expected to generally see higher pings to the same people while playing DS games.

In that case all traffic has to go through the server.
Players close to each other will most likely suffer extra hop that won't be there in p2p (where players connect directly).

This seems to be logic :

P2P Mode :
Player1 ============= Player2

DS Mode :
Player1 ======== Server ======== Player2

twobib
23-02-2018, 07:40
No !

Player 2 ------------------- Player 1 (host) ---------------player 3

Maybe just player 1 (so the host) will have less ping than other.

And since the last little update, no ping issues. We played with less than 100 of ping yesterday on DS

yons
23-02-2018, 08:43
Hello

I have a question for the guys that manage to get a good experience with the dedi after the patch. Where are your servers located and what are the pc settings and network bandwidth of the host?

Yesterday my group tried to use your dedi and still had some lag spikes of 500 ms and in the start of the race there was a spike and all cars slided forward causing damage to each other. :| we had to change to p2p to the race.

M. -VIPER- Morgan
23-02-2018, 08:53
No !

Player 2 ------------------- Player 1 (host) ---------------player 3

Maybe just player 1 (so the host) will have less ping than other.

And since the last little update, no ping issues. We played with less than 100 of ping yesterday on DS

I think this is also not completely correct for the P2P mode..
The host controls the session and maybe provides additional AI, for this data your illustration is right.
But I think the state information of every vehicle is P2P, which means everybody communicates to everybody - full mesh.
In your case Player 2 also communicates with Player 3 to exchange data like the position, orientation, speed, ...

If I am wrong, please correct me.

dam09fr
23-02-2018, 09:04
No !

Player 2 ------------------- Player 1 (host) ---------------player 3

Maybe just player 1 (so the host) will have less ping than other.

And since the last little update, no ping issues. We played with less than 100 of ping yesterday on DS

Are you sure of that ?
I think you are wrong ...

P2P mode means each player sends is data to all other players directly, so there is one direct connection to each player.

With 3 players :
Player1 ============= Player2
Player1 ============= Player3

Player2 ============= Player1 (host)
Player2 ============= Player3

Player3 ============= Player1 (host)
Player3 ============= Player2


In DS mode, each player connects to the server and send data to it.
Then it downloads all the other players data from the server.

dam09fr
23-02-2018, 09:10
Hello
I have a question for the guys that manage to get a good experience with the dedi after the patch. Where are your servers located and what are the pc settings and network bandwidth of the host?
Yesterday my group tried to use your dedi and still had some lag spikes of 500 ms and in the start of the race there was a spike and all cars slided forward causing damage to each other. :| we had to change to p2p to the race.

I play in France, with French (or European) people so I use a server from somebody who as a good network in EU area and server located in France (OVH, from their discount offer "Kimsufi").
If I try to use a server in USA for example the latency will be very bad !

For bandwidth, see this (from PCars1) even if the DS is different in PCars 2 this is the only information we have :
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22370-Dedicated-Server-HowTo-(Work-in-Progress)

Players - Download (MBit/s) - Upload (MBit/s)
10 - 0.3 - 1
16 - 0.5 - 3
24 - 0.8 - 7
32 - 1 - 12

Rodders
23-02-2018, 10:03
Hello

I have a question for the guys that manage to get a good experience with the dedi after the patch. Where are your servers located and what are the pc settings and network bandwidth of the host?

Yesterday my group tried to use your dedi and still had some lag spikes of 500 ms and in the start of the race there was a spike and all cars slided forward causing damage to each other. :| we had to change to p2p to the race.

Who's server?

Where are you located?

yons
23-02-2018, 10:23
I'm located in Portugal but most of ppl are located in UK.

Yesterday we have ppl from Portugal, UK, France and US. We are using a 32 slot game server from https://www.rackservice.org located in germany. The guy who created the lobby was in UK (and did not race)

During qualy I did not notice much of lag or latency... but as I said before in the start while we were all stationary (we use a manual rolling start directed by us) everybody saw all cars jump ahead and back (rubberbanding). We were 13 in the lobby.

How much important are the host (who created the lobby) pc settings and bandwidth while using a dedi? Yesterday lobby host has a significant low end pc.

dam09fr
23-02-2018, 11:30
How much important are the host (who created the lobby) pc settings and bandwidth while using a dedi? Yesterday lobby host has a significant low end pc.

I would recommend a recent i5 (4 cores like i5-6600) minimum for hosting a DS and playing in the same time.
Also, if using a Dedicated Server in a datacenter, avoid cheap Intel-based CPU servers as Atom, the DS run on the most part on one core, so it needs a powerful one, i3 or i5 are good ones !
The most important thing is the bandwidth of the host (even if not a server in a datacenter, you need fiber or a solid VDSL link to have alot of UPLOAD available).
More players = more bandwitdh needed.

Players - Download (MBit/s) - Upload (MBit/s)
10 - 0.3 - 1
16 - 0.5 - 3
24 - 0.8 - 7
32 - 1 - 12

As you can see for 32 players, you need 12Mb/s for upload !

FxUK
23-02-2018, 14:05
Hello. Just wanted to comment about p2p vs DS ping values, so it's not confusing.
It is expected to generally see higher pings to the same people while playing DS games.

In that case all traffic has to go through the server.
Players close to each other will most likely suffer extra hop that won't be there in p2p (where players connect directly).

I thought as much, although it wasn't clear because I decided to fail at typing.


I guess this relates to me not connecting directly to those players but instead, via the dedicated server, whereas I am connecting directly to them in p2p.

Charger
23-02-2018, 14:42
FYI, RWB Servers are located in Scotland on an 80/20 FTTP connection, running on an i5 system, soon to be upgraded to a Xeon rack server with 32GB RAM.

We have raced DS and P2P and it has been very smooth with no noticeable lag at all.

With regards to upload

Players - Download (MBit/s) - Upload (MBit/s)
10 - 0.3 - 1
16 - 0.5 - 3
24 - 0.8 - 7
32 - 1 - 12

We made a list of our good hosts and limited them to 16, 24 or 32 based on their connections but we upped the requirements a bit to

Players - Download (MBit/s) - Upload (MBit/s)
10 - 0.3 - 3
16 - 0.5 - 5
24 - 0.8 - 10
32 - 1 - 15

To allow for a fudge factor and spikes, it works quite well but I would advise anyone with a dedi to follow these and limit your player count to your upload connection, also account for anyone else streaming or anything that uses your upload bandwidth.

Even though we can run 32 players we run max 24 for public and keep 32 for closed room leagues.

Pings for the most part have ranged from 10 to around 60 for UK players, even Norway and the Netherlands are sub 100.

cluck
23-02-2018, 14:48
Yep, forgot to reply in here to say we've had no problems at RevolutionSimRacing since the update. Thanks for the fix, it's much appreciated from all of us at RSR :)