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lokid
13-02-2018, 15:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzBq5OsBu2A

he mentions the ffb is really good!

Ekay.jay
13-02-2018, 16:49
Does it really matter whether he likes it or not? It’s about what YOU like, and whether or not YOU think the ffb feels good.

I do like watching Jimmy though

Mark Race
13-02-2018, 17:12
he mentions the ffb is really good!

He's right then, the FFB is really good, as good as any other racing game to date imo, after that it's all down to personal taste and what people perceive as 'right'. For me one test of good FFB is when it is no longer an issue, if the wheel feels natural and I can just fire up the game and race that is a sign of good FFB, it isn't intrusive or immersion breaking.

Jimmy usually runs his FFB way too strong for my liking, all part of showing off the direct drive wheel etc, he's fighting the wheel in the video. Good to see he starts his videos with the sponsorship messages these days too so people know it's a corporate sales message when he talks about the various accessories and can then make their own mind up if he's being objective or pitching products.

I've seen a few of your posts on RD and here saying you're about done with PCARS2, for someone who is thinking that way you've got a lot to say about the game. I think you protest too much and secretly will be buying the game some overpriced flowers and running it a warm bubble bath tomorrow ;):)

Stewy32
13-02-2018, 20:22
I like Jimmy and remember when he was back on just a couple of k subs and it was nice to see him back.

Urban Chaos 2.0
13-02-2018, 21:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzBq5OsBu2A

he mentions the ffb is really good!

That's all the vast majority of these people seem to base their opinions about a simulator on: FFB. They lack a sufficient understanding of FFB, and they do not seem to understand it's purpose in a simulator. The Rockefellers and Carnegies have dumbed down the school system to such an extent that such simple matters are beyond a lot of the "simracers" who take to Youtube comment sections. They bashed Project Cars 1 because it's FFB calibration system was too advanced for them, and it's only after SMS did much of the setup work for them in Project Cars 2 that they've started to see sense.

Anyway, Jimmy Broadbent seems like a somewhat decent fellow. I've seen 1 or 2 of his videos before. No doubt Patch 4 will have a major and positive impact on peoples' opinions though. Patch 4 has polished Project Cars 2 to near-perfection. Certainly, Project Cars 2 is miles ahead of any other commercially available simulator. Miles ahead.

jimortality
13-02-2018, 21:26
He's right then, the FFB is really good, as good as any other racing game to date imo, after that it's all down to personal taste and what people perceive as 'right'. For me one test of good FFB is when it is no longer an issue, if the wheel feels natural and I can just fire up the game and race that is a sign of good FFB, it isn't intrusive or immersion breaking.

Jimmy usually runs his FFB way too strong for my liking, all part of showing off the direct drive wheel etc, he's fighting the wheel in the video. Good to see he starts his videos with the sponsorship messages these days too so people know it's a corporate sales message when he talks about the various accessories and can then make their own mind up if he's being objective or pitching products.

I've seen a few of your posts on RD and here saying you're about done with PCARS2, for someone who is thinking that way you've got a lot to say about the game. I think you protest too much and secretly will be buying the game some overpriced flowers and running it a warm bubble bath tomorrow ;):)

Yep, that's him, was known as Msportsdan

mister dog
13-02-2018, 21:41
We were thinking the same last week when we saw the Indy test, got me to try the Formula X and it really is a well thought out fantasy car and surprising how much it actually looks like that new spec indycar with the windscreen on it (I think the X has a better looking screen even). Bit visionary there and the way F1 should have gone too, but that's another discussion...

We're doing 3 short races online with them on Friday 8PM eastern should some of you be interested:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55986-PC-Friday-Night-Fun-Server

Fun car to drive, has some of the best FFB of the open wheelers in PC2 and that Kers button is very tempting seeing it recharges whilst you drive, so balancing the meter out during a race becomes a strategy by itself. Brings you to warp speed in no time also so Hockenheim classic should be a thrill with almost 400 k's an hour :p.

lokid
13-02-2018, 22:06
That's all the vast majority of these people seem to base their opinions about a simulator on: FFB. They lack a sufficient understanding of FFB, and they do not seem to understand it's purpose in a simulator. The Rockefellers and Carnegies have dumbed down the school system to such an extent that such simple matters are beyond a lot of the "simracers" who take to Youtube comment sections. They bashed Project Cars 1 because it's FFB calibration system was too advanced for them, and it's only after SMS did much of the setup work for them in Project Cars 2 that they've started to see sense.

Anyway, Jimmy Broadbent seems like a somewhat decent fellow. I've seen 1 or 2 of his videos before. No doubt Patch 4 will have a major and positive impact on peoples' opinions though. Patch 4 has polished Project Cars 2 to near-perfection. Certainly, Project Cars 2 is miles ahead of any other commercially available simulator. Miles ahead.

Had to lol at this. Nothing here's speaks sense or truth. Pc1 was an awful sim pc2 is a much better attempt even a great attempt. I don't look at just ffb but that is a major contributor to how real the cars feel, and how it translates cars physics to our toy wheels. Miles ahead of other sims. Come on you on drugs. ?? Please I dare you to post that over at Rd or somewhere more neutral. Please.

The only reason I posted this video is because a few months ago jimmy pretty much gave up on pc2 - like a lot of people did. And now he's enjoying it again after update 4 fixed a lot of issues.

not that I'm saying his word is gospel in sim racing hell no. But he mostly knows what he's talking about out of most the simtubers out there. A lot of hardcore sim racers laugh in the face of pc2 for what ever reason, coverage like this can help the sim mature, in this ever aggressive hard to please community.

hkraft300
13-02-2018, 23:08
Had to lol at this. Nothing here's speaks sense or truth. Pc1 was an awful sim pc2 is a much better attempt even a great attempt. I don't look at just ffb but that is a major contributor to how real the cars feel, and how it translates cars physics to our toy wheels. Miles ahead of other sims. Come on you on drugs. ?? Please I dare you to post that over at Rd or somewhere more neutral. Please.


Actually, urban has a point. More than most people mistake ffb from the game they like/good at with the quality of the physics in other sim. Ffb is a poor indicator of underlying physics. A game can have rubbish physics but dramatic ffb and it will fool you into thinking the game is sim, because the ffb is fun/ "feels" good. Also vice versa (poor education).
Pc1 had pretty decent physics. The ffb, however had a million ways to achieve the same result gave so much control that the user couldn't isolate and figure out what's what (poor education).
PC2 physics is on another level. The best out there. However, because the ffb "feels" isn't the same as AC or something else (some say Gran turismo has good ffb and therefore physics :glee: ), they don't take to pc2 and shit on it. Again, mistaking ffb for physics. Why? Because poor education.
Now, then: why do we have the phenomenon of YouTube couch jockeys having the weight of opinion that they do? Because ...
Wait for it...

Poor education! Which leads to people having poor filters for misinformation, and lacking the ability to differentiate fact from opinion.

jimortality
13-02-2018, 23:20
Actually, urban has a point. More than most people mistake ffb from the game they like/good at with the quality of the physics in other sim. Ffb is a poor indicator of underlying physics. A game can have rubbish physics but dramatic ffb and it will fool you into thinking the game is sim, because the ffb is fun/ "feels" good. Also vice versa (poor education).
Pc1 had pretty decent physics. The ffb, however had a million ways to achieve the same result gave so much control that the user couldn't isolate and figure out what's what (poor education).
PC2 physics is on another level. The best out there. However, because the ffb "feels" isn't the same as AC or something else (some say Gran turismo has good ffb and therefore physics :glee: ), they don't take to pc2 and shit on it. Again, mistaking ffb for physics. Why? Because poor education.
Now, then: why do we have the phenomenon of YouTube couch jockeys having the weight of opinion that they do? Because ...
Wait for it...

Poor education! Which leads to people having poor filters for misinformation, and lacking the ability to differentiate fact from opinion.

That ladies and Gentlemen is it in a nutshell plus some sim racing snobbery shoved in as well.

sbtm
13-02-2018, 23:22
PC2 physics is on another level. The best out there.

Spoken like a true fanboy.

But jokes aside, no... really not. It's not the best out there nor is it on "another level" or "miles ahead"... it's finally on par, but still has it's weird moments and behaviours.

It's still beyond me why race cars with super stiff suspension pitch and toss like a boat in corners and when braking and accelerating.

Tire model is very advanced indeed.

Azure Flare
13-02-2018, 23:38
Jimmy usually runs his FFB way too strong for my liking, all part of showing off the direct drive wheel etc, he's fighting the wheel in the video. Good to see he starts his videos with the sponsorship messages these days too so people know it's a corporate sales message when he talks about the various accessories and can then make their own mind up if he's being objective or pitching products.

Well, yeah, DD wheels are much, much stronger than the less expensive wheels that most of us have/can afford. Jimmy has also said that he runs his wheel at 20%. He did a video of him running all the way up to 100%, and it was very difficult.

Also, LOL "corporate sales message".

Sampo
14-02-2018, 00:11
Please I dare you to post that over at Rd or somewhere more neutral. Please.
Rd neutral? Yep, sure.


hardcore sim racers
What is a hardcore sim racer? Someone who says so?

Sorry, I had to butt in. It all makes me so mad. Argh!

Cheesenium
14-02-2018, 01:39
We were thinking the same last week when we saw the Indy test, got me to try the Formula X and it really is a well thought out fantasy car and surprising how much it actually looks like that new spec indycar with the windscreen on it (I think the X has a better looking screen even). Bit visionary there and the way F1 should have gone too, but that's another discussion...


Formula X was designed to be how SMS thinks a top-tier motorsport like F1 should be in a few year's time. At the same time, taking some inspiration from the 80s to 90s F1 while looking into some of the recent issues with the sport, such as driver safety by adding a windscreen.

hkraft300
14-02-2018, 01:40
...

It's still beyond me why race cars with super stiff suspension pitch and toss like a boat in corners and when braking and accelerating.

Well, a heavy car with weird suspension will tend to pitch and roll a lot, won't it?
Also, you might want to sort your camera movement settings. That, turned up, will make the car "feel" like its moving a lot more than it is.

You're welcome.
#Fanboy.

PS: education > feels.

GTsimms
14-02-2018, 02:08
Well, we still have to remember a lot of these guys on youtube do not have years of experience behind the wheel of a vehicle.

IMO compared to RL driving, I prefer Project CARS 2. But, I am not going to bash another title. I do feel things, where each could do better in simulation of a real vehicle.

lokid
14-02-2018, 06:30
What's this education feels crap about I've never heard so much crap in my life. So you have a GCSE and you think your schumacher with a race car. Eh get over yourself. If you had any education in the sim world. You wouldn't be saying crap like this. Don't tell me your on a console with a pad. And I thought RD was full of bs/fanboys over there.

hkraft300
14-02-2018, 06:34
If you had any education in the sim world. You wouldn't be saying crap like this. Don't tell me your on a console with a pad.

Sorry PC master race :glee:

My point is one shouldn't speak of physics without a decent understanding of it. High school physics gives you plenty idea.
You wouldn't go arguing with a neurosurgeon about nerve disorders now, would you?

Konan
14-02-2018, 07:01
What's this education feels crap about I've never heard so much crap in my life. So you have a GCSE and you think your schumacher with a race car. Eh get over yourself. If you had any education in the sim world. You wouldn't be saying crap like this. Don't tell me your on a console with a pad. And I thought rf was full of bs over there.

Might i suggest to change your tone...

lokid
14-02-2018, 07:04
Personally i judge sims on feel and ffb, Ive driven an open wheel a rally car and a track car.. i base my opinion on my experience and thats all - not all the numbers that go in a sim!

Look all i did was post a video of a well know sim tuber on a forum and "he" mentions he's impressed with the ffb. I didn't give my opinion on it at all. i thought was good coverage for this sim. thats all...

Konan yea yea dont worry mate I'm out! :)

maTech
14-02-2018, 07:06
It makes me sad to see some people play a game just because of ffb and physics. Tell me one game that has "perfect" ffb and physics, what is perfect? Sports car gt, gtr1, gtr2, total immersion racing, race driver grid, pcars 1 & 2, Gran Turismo......In my opinion none of these games are bad or undriveable. A real "Sim-Racer" can handle every sort of game :p Loved the gtr series for simulating the whole fia gt series, loved total immersion racing for their multiclass races and so on. For sure everybody has his own priorities but I play games for their content, for what they can offer me. If Jimmy likes it, well who cares? If David Hasselhoff likes iracing, who cares? If Lewis Hamilton likes gran turismo sport, who cares? This:


Does it really matter whether he likes it or not? It’s about what YOU like, and whether or not YOU think the ffb feels good.

I would like to add: I know you only wanted to show us this video lokid, nothing against you :p

Konan
14-02-2018, 07:07
Personally i judge sims on feel and ffb, Ive driven an open wheel a rally car and a track car.. i base my opinion on m experience and thats all - not all the numbers that go in a sim!

Look all i did was post a video of a well know sim tuber on a forum and "he" mentions he's impressed with the ffb. I didn't give my opinion on it at all. i thought was good coverage for this sim. thats all...


I'm out.


Yes,and i "liked" that post...any good publicity is welcomed but you can't be surprised when people analyse what you post...

Invincible
14-02-2018, 07:27
Yes,and i "liked" that post...any good publicity is welcomed but you can't be surprised when people analyse what you post...

I think he (lokid) actually has a point. Yes, we're on a somewhat biased forum, and yes, the fanboyism is strong with some of us (even with me :p), but he posted a rather positive video about "Our" sim and still, his post and the video get dismantled to the core for no good reason whatsoever. That's not what I'd call a fair treatment.

Konan
14-02-2018, 07:31
That was my point...i can't help what people do with a video...
Everyone has a right to his opinion pro or con...and everyone can disagree but if someone does it's not necessary to get personal about it...

Urban Chaos 2.0
14-02-2018, 07:41
Had to lol at this. Nothing here's speaks sense or truth. Pc1 was an awful sim pc2 is a much better attempt even a great attempt. I don't look at just ffb but that is a major contributor to how real the cars feel, and how it translates cars physics to our toy wheels. Miles ahead of other sims. Come on you on drugs. ?? Please I dare you to post that over at Rd or somewhere more neutral. Please.

The only reason I posted this video is because a few months ago jimmy pretty much gave up on pc2 - like a lot of people did. And now he's enjoying it again after update 4 fixed a lot of issues.

not that I'm saying his word is gospel in sim racing hell no. But he mostly knows what he's talking about out of most the simtubers out there. A lot of hardcore sim racers laugh in the face of pc2 for what ever reason, coverage like this can help the sim mature, in this ever aggressive hard to please community.

Clearly you belong to the aforementioned group of didactically deprived souls. Your apprehension of something as simple as FFB is deficient, and it is that deficiency which has led you to your misconceptions. You are overtly rude, and overbearing in your insulting and presumptuous ignorance. Unfortunately, that cannot be blamed on drugs. I am not on drugs (to address your silly question), and neither are you, in fact. Drugs cannot be used to excuse you, for it is quite clear that your brain functions as it normally does, and that is a depressing reality with which those of us who are not burdened with your problem must live, in dealing with you.

Firstly: FFB is not physics. FFB is the consequence of the vibrations which are permitted communication through the steering rack, the intermediary components between the steering wheel, the steering wheel itself, and even the vehicle chassis. FFB will vary from car to car, and can only ever used to loosely judge what one specific car is experiencing in any given situation. You cannot apply what you learn from one car's FFB, in certain situations, to every car, in those situations. That is something you so-called simracers - the byproduct of the failing education system - do not understand, and demonstrate repeatedly, an inability to understand. When you come across silly videogames like Assetto Corsa, your obstinate misapprehensions are then re-assured. Despite the facts and the evidence which exist contrary to your misconceptions, you will cling to your naive, ideological beliefs religiously. When confronted, you can never argue facts, or address the topic matter in a logical and/or evidence-based manner. All you have are childish insults, and a baseless proclamation of superiority while usually appealing to authority (a logical fallacy) by bringing up videogamers like Jimmy Broadbent.

When a naive simracer says "It's still beyond me why race cars with super stiff suspension pitch and toss like a boat in corners and when braking and accelerating", and the following is explained to him: "Race car suspension rates are variable, and the range of manipulation includes properties which soften the suspension and make them complicit in pitching under load. In conjunction with the right damping rates, and sway bar settings, you will definitely see the body roll in corners. Default Project Cars 2 vehicle setups are designed for you to adjust and tweak to your liking, and aggressive setups which prevent "pitching and tossing" will make the cars more difficult to drive. SMS rather decides to give users slow (in terms of lap-time potential), yet easy setup presets, which will cause the aforementioned observations, but will be easier to manage on track". The naive simracer will then, without a logical argument, assert that it 'still feels weird', as if to imply he has driven those race cars in real life, and has tweaked their setup constituents extensively. Even most race car drivers never move out of a certain range of component setup values, and the duty of setup changes is delegated to their mechanics and crew chiefs. But the armchair simracer with f***all experience in either mechanics or driving a fully-adjustable race car professionally, thinks he knows best. With no rational counter-argument, and a clear lack of knowledge on the mechatronic aspects of competitive automotive racing, the simracer thinks his "feelings" to be the foundation of objective reality.

He will even say things like: "Please I dare you to post that over at Rd or somewhere more neutral. Please.". Your very insinuation that Race Department is "neutral" demonstrates you are out of touch with reality. Race Department is jam packed with tremendously ignorant, and naive videogamers (not unlike yourself, I suppose), who know not in the slightest, what the f*** thay are talking about, and have nothing but bile to regurgitate onto your computer screen. No thanks, I will not be wasting my time with them, and in fact, I will not waste my time with you. If your next response is as rude and devoid of a rational argument as your previous one, I won't respond.


Spoken like a true fanboy.

But jokes aside, no... really not. It's not the best out there nor is it on "another level" or "miles ahead"... it's finally on par, but still has it's weird moments and behaviours.

It's still beyond me why race cars with super stiff suspension pitch and toss like a boat in corners and when braking and accelerating.

Tire model is very advanced indeed.

@sbtm: I have partially addressed your misunderstanding, in the first paragraph, but let me address the rest.

Firstly: You claim Project Cars 2 is finally on par with other simulators, and is not "miles ahead". Your statement though, makes little sense, because no other simulator has the sheer variety of content that Project Cars 2 has, and no other simulator dynamically simulates a variety of real-world surfaces and weather effects to the extent that Project Cars 2 does. Project Cars 2, is in fact, miles ahead of all competition. Closest compeittor is rFactor 2, which also features a fantastic physics engine, but is let b\down by its reliance on mods (which mostly turn out to be bad, because the modding community, for the most part is unable to fully utilize rFactor 2's vehicle-creation system).

You also say something about the tyre model. I don't know if that was in relation to your misunderstandings, or not, so I will ignore it. You seem to share lokid's mindset, so I will leave things here. As I have told lokid: If your next response is devoid of sense, or is needlessly derisive, I will ignore it. I will not even read it. No offence at all, I just don't feel like wasting my time.


I think he (lokid) actually has a point. Yes, we're on a somewhat biased forum, and yes, the fanboyism is strong with some of us (even with me :p), but he posted a rather positive video about "Our" sim and still, his post and the video get dismantled to the core for no good reason whatsoever. That's not what I'd call a fair treatment.

No one was being rude to him, and no one was saying anything bad about his post. Please go back and read the correspondences. It doesn't seem that you did. As you will see, he began insulting people for no reason. No one 'took his post apart', or criticised him in any way. He instead, took offence at the very insinuation that Project Cars 2 is a fantastic simulator, and proceeded to disrespect people. That, is a very bad attitude which he seriously needs to reconsider possessing.


Cheers.

hkraft300
14-02-2018, 07:50
Shush you education elitist :p

Konan
14-02-2018, 08:04
Ok enough with the back and forth remarks now please...

pa_pinkelman
14-02-2018, 08:16
Clearly you belong to the aforementioned group of didactically deprived souls. Your apprehension of something as simple as FFB is deficient, and it is that deficiency which has led you to your misconceptions. You are overtly rude, and overbearing in your insulting and presumptuous ignorance. Unfortunately, that cannot be blamed on drugs. I am not on drugs (to address your silly question), and neither are you, in fact. Drugs cannot be used to excuse you, for it is quite clear that your brain functions as it normally does, and that is a depressing reality with which those of us who are not burdened with your problem must live, in dealing with you.

Firstly: FFB is not physics. FFB is the consequence of the vibrations which are permitted communication through the steering rack, the intermediary components between the steering wheel, the steering wheel itself, and even the vehicle chassis. FFB will vary from car to car, and can only ever used to loosely judge what one specific car is experiencing in any given situation. You cannot apply what you learn from one car's FFB, in certain situations, to every car, in those situations. That is something you so-called simracers - the byproduct of the failing education system - do not understand, and demonstrate repeatedly, an inability to understand. When you come across silly videogames like Assetto Corsa, your obstinate misapprehensions are then re-assured. Despite the facts and the evidence which exist contrary to your misconceptions, you will cling to your naive, ideological beliefs religiously. When confronted, you can never argue facts, or address the topic matter in a logical and/or evidence-based manner. All you have are childish insults, and a baseless proclamation of superiority while usually appealing to authority (a logical fallacy) by bringing up videogamers like Jimmy Broadbent.

When a naive simracer says "It's still beyond me why race cars with super stiff suspension pitch and toss like a boat in corners and when braking and accelerating", and the following is explained to him: "Race car suspension rates are variable, and the range of manipulation includes properties which soften the suspension and make them complicit in pitching under load. In conjunction with the right damping rates, and sway bar settings, you will definitely see the body roll in corners. Default Project Cars 2 vehicle setups are designed for you to adjust and tweak to your liking, and aggressive setups which prevent "pitching and tossing" will make the cars more difficult to drive. SMS rather decides to give users slow (in terms of lap-time potential), yet easy setup presets, which will cause the aforementioned observations, but will be easier to manage on track". The naive simracer will then, without a logical argument, assert that it 'still feels weird', as if to imply he has driven those race cars in real life, and has tweaked their setup constituents extensively. Even most race car drivers never move out of a certain range of component setup values, and the duty of setup changes is delegated to their mechanics and crew chiefs. But the armchair simracer with f***all experience in either mechanics or driving a fully-adjustable race car professionally, thinks he knows best. With no rational counter-argument, and a clear lack of knowledge on the mechatronic aspects of competitive automotive racing, the simracer thinks his "feelings" to be the foundation of objective reality.

He will even say things like: "Please I dare you to post that over at Rd or somewhere more neutral. Please.". Your very insinuation that Race Department is "neutral" demonstrates you are out of touch with reality. Race Department is jam packed with tremendously ignorant, and naive videogamers (not unlike yourself, I suppose), who know not in the slightest, what the f*** thay are talking about, and have nothing but bile to regurgitate onto your computer screen. No thanks, I will not be wasting my time with them, and in fact, I will not waste my time with you. If your next response is as rude and devoid of a rational argument as your previous one, I won't respond.



@sbtm: I have partially addressed your misunderstanding, in the first paragraph, but let me address the rest.

Firstly: You claim Project Cars 2 is finally on par with other simulators, and is not "miles ahead". Your statement though, makes little sense, because no other simulator has the sheer variety of content that Project Cars 2 has, and no other simulator dynamically simulates a variety of real-world surfaces and weather effects to the extent that Project Cars 2 does. Project Cars 2, is in fact, miles ahead of all competition. Closest compeittor is rFactor 2, which also features a fantastic physics engine, but is let b\down by its reliance on mods (which mostly turn out to be bad, because the modding community, for the most part is unable to fully utilize rFactor 2's vehicle-creation system).

You also say something about the tyre model. I don't know if that was in relation to your misunderstandings, or not, so I will ignore it. You seem to share lokid's mindset, so I will leave things here. As I have told lokid: If your next response is devoid of sense, or is needlessly derisive, I will ignore it. I will not even read it. No offence at all, I just don't feel like wasting my time.



No one was being rude to him, and no one was saying anything bad about his post. Please go back and read the correspondences. It doesn't seem that you did. As you will see, he began insulting people for no reason. No one 'took his post apart', or criticised him in any way. He instead, took offence at the very insinuation that Project Cars 2 is a fantastic simulator, and proceeded to disrespect people. That, is a very bad attitude which he seriously needs to reconsider possessing.


Cheers.

Tell your ego to calm down a little...! People are laughing at you...:D

Konan
14-02-2018, 08:18
Guess i wasn't clear enough...

Konan
14-02-2018, 09:12
Just so no one gets the wrong idea...i received a PM from lokid to ban his account...
Too bad 'cause all he did was post a positive pCARS 2 video...