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SpoonMeister
15-02-2018, 20:13
When doing a race in gt3 class I usually get alot of understeer after like 5 laps. Is this normal or should I change something in the setup or is it a problem with the tires?

Schnizz58
15-02-2018, 20:19
What tires are you using? What are the track conditions? Also are you using a controller or a wheel?

ant1897
15-02-2018, 20:19
When doing a race in gt3 class I usually get alot of understeer after like 5 laps. Is this normal or should I change something in the setup or is it a problem with the tires?

Most likely tire related. Its tough to tell as you give basically no info. What compound? what track temp? what tire pressure? etc...

SpoonMeister
15-02-2018, 20:30
I was running on the soft compound tire with the tire pressure at 1.33. And the track temperature was around 25 degrees. I am using a wheel.

ant1897
15-02-2018, 20:35
What were your hot pressures? Which track? Softs will work for a handful of laps at 25 degrees c. They will quickly over heat and become less than ideal, depending on track layout and your driving style, especially if you're over driving. Anything over 5 laps at over 20c id go for hards, and aim for a hot pressure of 26psi (1.80bar). They might be a a little off pace in the first 5 laps, but will remain a lot more consistent throughout their life span.

SpoonMeister
15-02-2018, 20:53
The track was Hockenheim go. I didn't really pay attention to my hot pressures.. I will check them and the suggestion to increase the tire pressure out later.

Vic Flange
16-02-2018, 05:18
What is your tire wear rate set to ?

ATSS
16-02-2018, 06:54
If you are using softs then its normal. I see it happening too, thats why i use the hard compound for races that last longer than 6-7laps.

Gav88888
16-02-2018, 07:55
OP as you can probably tell if you want to post up a comment saying this or that isn't working the mods/devs need to be able to replicate the issue to troubleshoot, so as much info as possible is required.

SpoonMeister
16-02-2018, 09:17
Ah I get it. This is my first time posting here so I didn't know. But the tire wear was set to real.

Bealdor
16-02-2018, 09:32
Hockenheim GP @25C tack temp is a little bit tricky, I just did a race there yesterday in very similar conditions.
The main issue is that your soft slicks can overheat (>90C) very quickly but the hard slicks are having a hard time to keep their working temps and are very slow compared to the softs here.

I'm 99% sure that your soft slicks were overheating. Try to manage them a bit better (don't race at the absolute limit the whole time). I know that's easier said than done though.

SpoonMeister
16-02-2018, 09:34
And what if I would increase the tire pressure? Would that help?

Markus Ott
16-02-2018, 10:08
I wonder why sim racers are so obsessed with managing tire heat with pressure.
If you want less heat try softer suspension settings (dampers mainly, ARB secondary) and drive less aggressive.

prinsmp
16-02-2018, 10:16
I wonder why sim racers are so obsessed with managing tire heat with pressure.
If you want less heat try softer suspension settings (dampers mainly, ARB secondary) and drive less aggressive.

We are looking for optimal tire pressure and temperature, which have huge impact on drivability of the car. Amount of tire heat will determine your pressure, so they go hand in hand. Management of tire heat is the difficult part in this game and should not be found in pressure only, I agree.

Pc 1 was pressure only more or less.

Invincible
16-02-2018, 10:51
We are looking for optimal tire pressure and temperature, which have huge impact on drivability of the car. Amount of tire heat will determine your pressure, so they go hand in hand. Management of tire heat is the difficult part in this game and should not be found in pressure only, I agree.

Pc 1 was pressure only more or less.

For managing the pressure, you can also use the brake ducts, as the heat from the brakes distributes through the rim and heats up te air in the tire without directly interfering with the tire temperature.
Still, if you want to manage your tire temperatures, starting with the pressure is the wrong way. As Markus said, try to reduce scrubbing and overdriving the tire. This will already go a long way to keep your temperatures in check.
If this fails, go for suspension - camber, anti-rollbar, springs, dampers, etc.

SpoonMeister
16-02-2018, 13:35
Well I did alot of laps today trying different tire pressures and also the hard tires. I noticed that my left front tire kept overheating even if I changed the tire pressure. The hard tires felt a little bit worse but the left front tire overheated les quicker. In both occasions my left front tire was at 120 degrees while my other tires were about 100 degrees.

hkraft300
16-02-2018, 13:50
>90c the hard tires are well in their zone. Soft tires fail ~100c. At those temps youd want to run hard tires, with the recommended hot pressures.

See: detail helps diagnose.

By the way, something doesnt seem right to me if youre getting 100c tire temps at hockenheim gp in a GT3 car at 25c track...

Invincible
16-02-2018, 13:59
>90c the hard tires are well in their zone. Soft tires fail ~100c. At those temps you’d want to run hard tires, with the recommended hot pressures.

See: detail helps diagnose.

By the way, something doesn’t seem right to me if you’re getting 100c tire temps at hockenheim gp in a GT3 car at 25c track...

I thought the same. Maybe your general setup and or driving style is to blame. Try to make the car more oversteery, because apparently you are already scrubbing your front left heavily even before it overheats. Otherwise I couldn't imagine how to build this much heat in a front tire.

SpoonMeister
16-02-2018, 14:05
Yeah the left front tire also overheats at 15 degrees.. so I think it is my setup/driving style. It overheats the most at the last few corners of the track. I don't have alot of knowledge about setups, so what should I change in the setup to minimize the amount of tire scrubbing?

RoccoTTS
16-02-2018, 14:18
Yeah the left front tire also overheats at 15 degrees.. so I think it is my setup/driving style. It overheats the most at the last few corners of the track. I don't have alot of knowledge about setups, so what should I change in the setup to minimize the amount of tire scrubbing?

About driving style, do remember : slow in, fast out. If your front tires overheat more than the rear in a rwd car, probably your entry speed is too high. Try to brake earlier before entering a corner.

One of the most common misunderstanding is that people always try to find a solution in the setup instead of their driving style.

cpcdem
16-02-2018, 16:22
Hockenheim GP @25C tack temp is a little bit tricky, I just did a race there yesterday in very similar conditions.
The main issue is that your soft slicks can overheat (>90C) very quickly but the hard slicks are having a hard time to keep their working temps and are very slow compared to the softs here.


Do you mean the hards were slow because they were not up to temperature, or that they were slower even at optimal temperature than the softs? Because in my experience (post patch 4), the hards are still faster or have the same speed with the softs (not complaining, that's fine to me), and of course have the extra advantage that their performance does not drop quickly when overheated. Could be wrong though...

dhfool
16-02-2018, 18:07
From my testing on Daytona oval, soft tires have about 1-2km/h higher top speed...

pferreirag60
16-02-2018, 18:42
From my tests (AI races only) post patch, the soft tires after 80C loose grip, my setups are always the default(not stable) dont remember the name, anyway I only change tire pressure and brake ducts. But with Gt cars, road cars and Lmp900 cars, i feel that after 80c the softs are gone, cant drive the same way, when in 80c or 85c i have to slow considerable when entering a turn. I really dont understand why everybody talks about 85c to 95c as the right temp, because for me, with the softs when they reach that temperature i loose to much grip. With the Hard tires i have the same problem but much slower, in that i can drive a long race with them, with a good pace, but when they reach 90c i start to loose grip too.

I need help, I tried with pressure, and i can maintain the right hot pressure, but not the low temps... as I have described.

KANETAKER
16-02-2018, 21:43
About driving style, do remember : slow in, fast out. If your front tires overheat more than the rear in a rwd car, probably your entry speed is too high. Try to brake earlier before entering a corner.

One of the most common misunderstanding is that people always try to find a solution in the setup instead of their driving style.

The problem is that the driving style (as well as the wear and temperature factor) would only be noticeable in long-distance races (more than 10-20 laps or more than 30 minutes), since in short races (less than 10 laps) is very unlikely (for example) that a player with hard tires could try to reach a player with soft tires who in the 1st laps was unreachable and could have obtained a good time gap to resist comfortably in the last laps with his tires overheated while his follower (with better tires) tries to reach him before the race is over.

Another problem is that most players are looking for ways to reconfigure their setups so that the tires do not overheat, but without having to sacrifice performance, grip and top speed by reconfiguring the setup. Any of the 2 things completely changes the behavior of the car: Or a setup to have the fastest car on the track but punishing the tires excessively, or a setup that takes better care of the tires but the car can not be the fastest in track. Or like this: If you apply a smooth driving style in a fast car it will be easy prey not to be able to take full advantage, while a fast player in a conservative car will not be able to reach the fastest, no matter how hard he tries. unless the ones in front present problems (as in LeMans 1991 with the Mazda 787b vs the Sauber C11).

But as I said before, that would only be noticeable in long races, since there counts more having a car in optimal conditions throughout the race, and waiting for faster cars to begin to present problems... although that also depends on whether the fastest players are or aren't able to control the car in adverse conditions, which would completely cancel any conservative strategy from rivals... This happens to me at LeMans with the TS040 LMP1, with which I use a very fast and aggressive setup (with soft tires) and despite everything I can maintain my performance during a stint of 9-10 laps (in constant times of 3:18 - 3:19), and in that way to keep my advantage of 2-3 seconds per lap over my immediate pursuer who is wearing hard tires and rolling somewhat inconsistently (3:20 - 3:23) although in a longer race he would have the advantage of not having to change his hard tires, but in my case thanks to the difference of time I can be safe from losing my position for the extra time I lost in the pits when I had to change my soft tires.

Although on the other hand if a player with a conservative setup can keep pace and follow the trail of the fastest cars then yes could take advantage of the situation. In the previous example, the other player would have to try not to lose more than 0.5 - 1 second per lap to overtake the leader in the pits by making a shorter stop or trying to be more aggressive in the same laps in which the leader starts to lose performance due to overheating / wear on your tires.

hkraft300
16-02-2018, 23:40
What a load of crap.
A good setup that is good on tires isn't a slow setup.
A smooth driver who is good on tires isn't a slow driver.

Obviously you don't save your tires during qualifying or a sprint race where tire wear isn't a consideration. Drive the same way in an endurance race you'll spend more time in the pits than the smooth driver.

KANETAKER
17-02-2018, 19:36
What a load of crap.
Only for you (and one more), not for everyone that have the same problem about tire temps and setups.


A good setup that is good on tires isn't a slow setup.

As I mentioned before, if you have a very fast car (and set-up) that in turn does not abuse the tires, then you can push to the maximum without worrying about the tire issue. In my case, the Toyota TS040 with a good setup from one of my best friends and fastest LMP1 player at Steam version (I don't say his name).

The problem comes when you do not have that perfect setting, and when searching for one you only find aggressive settings (for TimeTrial) or set-ups for long-term races; and the thing is much more complicated for those players who despite all we still do not know how to prepare well the settings and we need to get adjustments made by other players, which is not easy. In my case: Any GT3/GT1/GTE car...


A smooth driver who is good on tires isn't a slow driver.
It depends on the situation and if the car also allows it. In F1 an example was Jenson Button in 2011, his McLaren was not as fast as RedBull but it was the 2nd best car in that season, and he knew how to take advantage of the few times when Vettel despite having the fastest car had to succumb to the excessive wear of Pirelli tires that were new for all drivers in that year, taking advantage of those who managed to understand their operation and take good care of them.


Obviously you don't save your tires during qualifying or a sprint race where tire wear isn't a consideration. Drive the same way in an endurance race you'll spend more time in the pits than the smooth driver.

As I mentioned before, it also depends on having or not a car and setting that allows you to do it. In real life we already had proof of this in the 2011 Edition of the 24h of LeMans: Audi vs Peugeot. The Audi was faster than the Peugeot and at the same time had the advantage that their tires could hold 4 stins against the 3 stins of Peugeot, but instead had the disadvantage of consuming too much fuel resisting 10 laps on the track vs 11 or 12 laps of Peugeot, so there was the risk of losing the race by having to make more pit stops than Peugeot, so the only way to win was being aggressive on the track all the time, marking fast laps despite the danger of traffic that Made it cost 2 of the 3 cars to Audi. In the end, Audi won by just 13 seconds of GAP, when normally LeMans races are defined by laps of GAP.

bmanic
17-02-2018, 19:49
Yeah the left front tire also overheats at 15 degrees.. so I think it is my setup/driving style. It overheats the most at the last few corners of the track. I don't have alot of knowledge about setups, so what should I change in the setup to minimize the amount of tire scrubbing?

Are you perhaps simply applying way too much steering lock everywhere and thus pushing/understeering the car all over the place? I see this as a common problem with people online.. especially if you watch people who are very much off pace, they are always applying way too much lock, massively past the optimum slip angle. This would heat up the tires very fast and scrub them down to unusable within a few laps.

What kind of laptimes are you doing?

hkraft300
17-02-2018, 22:36
...
As I mentioned before, if you have a very fast car (and set-up) that in turn does not abuse the tires, then you can push to the maximum without worrying about the tire issue..

No. You as a driver can abuse the tires and you will wear/overheat them, even with really good setup.
If your car is setup to be aggressive on tires in the game, you can still drive smooth to be kind to the tires and drive fast.


The problem comes when you do not have that perfect setting, and when searching for one you only find aggressive settings (for TimeTrial) or set-ups for long-term races;

Using TT tunes on endurance races! Genius!



It depends on the situation and if the car also allows it. In F1 an example was Jenson Button in 2011... In real life we already had proof of this in the 2011 Edition of the 24h of LeMans: Audi vs Peugeot. The Audi was faster than the Peugeot and at the same time had the advantage that their tires could hold 4 stins against the 3 stins of Peugeot, but instead had the disadvantage of consuming too much fuel resisting ...

Edge cases and we're not even talking about fuel consumption.

SpoonMeister
18-02-2018, 18:51
I have been using the hard tires for the last few days and I don't really have the problem anymore.. I just don't use the soft tires anymore. And I can dirve faster lap times with the hard tires.

hkraft300
18-02-2018, 23:03
I just smashed my PB at spa last night with soft tires <30℃ track.