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rmb24
16-02-2018, 02:39
Does anyone else notice when you go through the list of cars that the engine placement icon for every car shows it mid-engines? The corvette and the Porsche ( except the 911 rsr which is) both show that they are mid when they are not.

Azure Flare
16-02-2018, 02:43
It shows the driven wheels, not engine placement. Any idiot who knows anything about cars should be able to figure out where the engine is in any car.

rmb24
16-02-2018, 02:47
It was just something I noticed. In the first game i seemed there was more details.

NateDawg
16-02-2018, 03:42
Does anyone else notice when you go through the list of cars that the engine placement icon for every car shows it mid-engines? The corvette and the Porsche ( except the 911 rsr which is) both show that they are mid when they are not.

This confused me at first as well, until I realised it was only showing the driven wheels. Why it has the giant square in the middle of the car is beyond me. As for "any idiot" being able to work it out, there are a lot of lesser known cars in this game where it is not completely obvious. That post is elitism at it's finest. Why not make it educational and accessible?

sp3ctor
16-02-2018, 05:49
Actually you’d be pretty surprised how often people can’t figure out where the engine is in my Cayman S. It’s a little more obvious in the 650s. :rolleyes:

breyzipp
16-02-2018, 06:18
Does anyone else notice when you go through the list of cars that the engine placement icon for every car shows it mid-engines? The corvette and the Porsche ( except the 911 rsr which is) both show that they are mid when they are not.

It is something that has been bugging me from day one. Yes indeed it looks as if all cars are mid-engine and it sure is confusing. I would like to see SMS enhance their car drivetrain/enginebay icon for the garage list so that it is immediately obvious what type you car you are dealing with (FR, FF, F4, M4, MR, RR, etc)

pkcraistlin
16-02-2018, 06:25
lol. is clearly front, rear or AWD.

breyzipp
16-02-2018, 07:53
lol. is clearly front, rear or AWD.

... which is not what this topic is about. It’s about the engine placement.

pkcraistlin
16-02-2018, 07:58
... which is not what this topic is about. It’s about the engine placement.

please post a pic of the icon showing engine placement.

Maxwel
16-02-2018, 09:31
please post a pic of the icon showing engine placement.

You obviously own the game why not look yourself?

rmb24
16-02-2018, 12:42
Yeah that was my point. Some cars that don’t know very much about I couldn’t be so sure. So for any one that’s not as knowledgeable as others , it helps with tuning properly for weight distribution. That’s another thing that seems to be left out in the car details that the first game also had listed, unless it’s tucked somewhere that I don’t know of.

Albertsen
16-02-2018, 16:11
It shows the driven wheels, not engine placement. Any idiot who knows anything about cars should be able to figure out where the engine is in any car.
Wow, that's a bit harsh.
Not everyone on the internet is as magnificent as you.

250201

MaximusN
16-02-2018, 16:29
Wow, that's a bit harsh.
Not everyone on the internet is as magnificent as you.

250201

Lol, some people.

And IMHO engine placement is more than FR, MR, RR anyway. Because FR can mean any engine in front of the driver and an engine actually in front of the front axle. And the engine in front of the car could actually be almost in the middle, so a front engined car could still be an MR(like the SLR). So the two letter abbreviation is IMHO confusing without knowing more details anyway.

To me weight distribution is a lot more clear about what to expect from the car regarding it's behavior.

banner77amc
16-02-2018, 17:02
Personally I don't worry about where its at unless its not there at all

Konan
16-02-2018, 17:50
It shows the driven wheels, not engine placement. Any idiot who knows anything about cars should be able to figure out where the engine is in any car.

It's not a necessity to know cars to play the game though...also since this is a PEGI 3 forum you could be talking to someone quite young who doesn't know every car on the market...

breyzipp
16-02-2018, 17:57
Lol, some people.

And IMHO engine placement is more than FR, MR, RR anyway. Because FR can mean any engine in front of the driver and an engine actually in front of the front axle. And the engine in front of the car could actually be almost in the middle, so a front engined car could still be an MR(like the SLR). So the two letter abbreviation is IMHO confusing without knowing more details anyway.

To me weight distribution is a lot more clear about what to expect from the car regarding it's behavior.

I agree FR, FF etc don’t explain everything, but they sure help you along the way really well. And it can be a great help to new players to understand why a car is behaving in a certain way instead of not understanding it and just assuming ‘PCARS physics don’t work well’. Not to mention seeing the engine drawn in the middle is misleading (if that bubble in the middle is not supposed to represent the engine like it does in about every other game, then I don’t know why it’s there).

For a game as complex as Project CARS I really don’t understand why there is not an overload of in-game guidance on how physics and various things work. Remember Dirt Rally and those in-game introductionary videos on oversteer, understeer and all those things? Such guidance can be the difference between a make or break experience/love for the game. The way PCARS 2 is now it really shows the game has been made and tested by long term fans of the genre who are deep into the game and understand everything really well, since the part of making the game accessible and easy to step in to for new players is as good as absent. And I’m not talking about the voiceovers explaining the menu parts since that is something we can all figure out, I’m talking about the effect of temperature on tyres, front vs mid vs rear engines, FWD vs RWD, NA vs turbo vs supercharger. GT:Sport actually also really did great in this area explaining car physics with the driving school missions.

In the end if you want to make a complex game accessible to every racing fan, you got to lay down a warm and welcoming path to guide those players into the game. Yes the hardcore or even just noob but avid fans like myself straight jump into the cars and tracks details and don’t care too much for tutorials, but that is not how newbie players do things.

And I agree with rmb24 that I miss the weight distribution percentage as well. PCARS1 indeed did have that, I made a list of all those cars, I know. ;)

sp3ctor
16-02-2018, 18:06
Speaking of knowing every car on the market... I don’t. I’m not some sort of vehicular rainman. I really, really, really wish that SMS would include the name of the car in times/leaderboard list so I don’t have to stare at a tiny rendering and make a guess. I’d love to know which cars are beating me mercilessly. Even if it would be possible to mouse over the picture or click it for the name.

breyzipp
16-02-2018, 18:34
please post a pic of the icon showing engine placement.

For the lazy amoung us...

250212

That's actually one of a series of patch 2.0 bug reporting screenshots I made on the PS4 forum but I can't find the original thread anymore but still had the screenshot stored locally on my PC.

rich1e I
16-02-2018, 18:59
Agree, it's very misleading. Would've been nice if we had the engine placement info.

satco1066
17-02-2018, 00:47
If you compare all that symbols, you should see, that the dot is in the middle of every symbol.
So it can't be something that shows location of the engine.
It is what it is, an icon that points to FWD,RWD and AWD.
Maybe its not optimal, but some graphics guy developed it this way and some boss meant its OK.
Thats all.

Brezip you misinterpreted something.
BTW, the 0 - 60 is allready fixed to 0-100, so your screenshot is outdated.

pkcraistlin
17-02-2018, 01:45
You obviously own the game why not look yourself?

because i laughed at the fact the icon being referenced is obviously front, rear or AWD and not related to the position of the engine, and captain cretin disagreed. so i wanted a pic of this supposed engine icon, other than the one that obviously denotes front, rear or AWD because apparently there was one (which during my time with the game i had missed).

and now the icon that shows front, rear and AWD is posted, haha.

breyzipp
17-02-2018, 06:54
Brezip you misinterpreted something.
BTW, the 0 - 60 is allready fixed to 0-100, so your screenshot is outdated.

As I said in that post...

That's actually one of a series of patch 2.0 bug reporting screenshots I made on the PS4 forum but I can't find the original thread anymore but still had the screenshot stored locally on my PC.

breyzipp
17-02-2018, 07:07
Just some other game references so those who don't have a clue can actually understand why some of us find that dot so confusing / misleading :

Forza Motorsport uses a dot to represent the engine, you can immediately see that this Hyundai is an FR car (and if you toggle Y once, it shows and keeps showing the tech stats including weight balance instead of the "kiddie stats"):

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-B7S9AFaT_A/maxresdefault.jpg

Forza Horizon: for example this car is F4 (front engine 4WD) and has a 54% front weight load:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kpZFLxue8PY/maxresdefault.jpg

GT:Sport has no icon but writes down engine-drivetrain relation under the drivetrain section (e.g. FR in this screenshot). When you browse through the garage you see this info as well (not on release but was patched in later, just indicating how important this info is)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ExtkVSn2HjU/maxresdefault.jpg

Project cars 1 has no icon but at least it shows both the placement of the engine in text (front-mid-rear) and includes weight balance in the detailed stats (RWD Mid 56% weight in this example):

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/projectcars/images/b/bc/Project_Cars_Garage_-_Project_Cars_Garage_-_Audi_R8_%28LMP900%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150919093108

And Assetto Corsa is absolute garbage when it comes down to giving the player some info about the car you are selecting from your garage as it shows no stats at all while browsing, for each car individually you need to click on tech specs to see the barebone minimim stats (with many fields lacking data).

I hope you guys have a clue now what this thread is about. Forza does it best with the icon representing the drivetrain and the engine placement and if you toggle the stats from the default kiddie stats you get to see weight distribution as well (as in the FH2 screenshot). PCARS 2 almost does the same except what is the dot for the engine is always drawn in the middle, hence why it looks like every car is a mid engine car. And you can't deny that some additional info from the PCARS 1 garage screen (engine placement and weight distribution) is lacking in PCARS 2.

I was absolutely delighted when I say those first PCARS 2 beta screenshots of cars in the garage having the icon for the drivetrain / engine placement, but that excitement later faded away and got replaced with a feeling of a lacking attempt when I saw the engine was always drawn in the middle.

I absolutely like this game as much as the naysayers in this thread and it is by far my favorite racing genre as well. But the elitism answers of "hey I don't need the engine placement info, I know all this by head" is exactly what hinders this franchise to open up to the masses and lure new players in from the "easier and arcade games" like Forza and GT:Sport. Those 2 games have really high levels of polish and newbie handholding tactics (e.g. GT Sport driving school). If you see a thread here with some advice on how to make a small improvement on PCARS 2 so that it is more accessible and less misleading for new players, by all means either nod on the case created or else just leave it be and move on. PCARS 2 is a fantastic game at it's core but in my humble opinion it lacks greatly in informing a new player how the game works (e.g. no Dirt Rally tutorial videos or no GT Sport driving school videos/events). So if a thread pops up to make the game more accessible to these players, you should welcome it. I know the hardcore playerbase are diehard racing sims with expensive VR rigs at their homes but those are not the crowd that sell a franchise into the millions, that are the general players on their console games playing with a controller in front of their TV. If you want to sell well, you need to open up the game to the general public. And yes, a feature as trivial as a misleading dot that looks as if all cars are mid-engine cars, is one of the many steps to take to reach that goal.

Take a step back and read the post from the OP again, the thread title and that short line. He is not suggesting to improve the icon because it is misleading, he is reporting it as a bug. So the OP assumes the dot represents the engine as well, he is not even questioning it. I hope that also indicates how a dot on a drivetrain model is so baked into our brains as representing the engine.

And it's not just that Forza is the reference here, just take a look at the images on Wikipedia:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Automotive_diagrams_01_En.png/250px-Automotive_diagrams_01_En.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Automotive_diagrams_05_En.png/275px-Automotive_diagrams_05_En.png

Satchel_Charge
17-02-2018, 16:25
The icon isn't misleading whatsoever. It's a huge round circle at the dead center of the diagram. But I agree it would be cool to add engine position like Forza does.

Beastie
17-02-2018, 22:23
It woud be nice if the engine location was detailed on the graphic in the car select page along with the driving wheels.

That said, it is pretty easy to google car details. I'm guessing more than 99% of PC2 players have an internet connection so it isn't really a big deal.

Maxwel
18-02-2018, 05:55
because i laughed at the fact the icon being referenced is obviously front, rear or AWD and not related to the position of the engine, and captain cretin disagreed. so i wanted a pic of this supposed engine icon, other than the one that obviously denotes front, rear or AWD because apparently there was one (which during my time with the game i had missed).

and now the icon that shows front, rear and AWD is posted, haha.
Obvious to you but not to others which is what this entire post is about

Konan
18-02-2018, 06:23
Changed thread title because the given info isn't incorrect really...

breyzipp
18-02-2018, 06:39
Changed thread title because the given info isn't incorrect really...

Depends how you look on it. ;) If the center dot isn't representing the engine, then what is it supposed to be? The driver? Or just a big fat welding point on the chassis? :)

Konan
18-02-2018, 06:40
The gearbox?

Jetsun
18-02-2018, 06:50
Being new to cars' world, I would appreciate to have this info ingame.
And I agree breyzipp, I would also love smthg like a driving school and track by track, sectors by sectors practice like in gts!
I'm guessing that now that they have a solid sim, SMS will be able to start to focus more on newbie friendly features for the next titles :)

breyzipp
18-02-2018, 07:24
The gearbox?

I think the gearbox can be about everywhere in a car as well: front-middle-center. Didn't the new Porsche platform for the 2017 911 RSR have the gearbox completely in the back so that the engine could be a bit more towards the middle?

Konan
18-02-2018, 07:48
I think the gearbox can be about everywhere in a car as well: front-middle-center. Didn't the new Porsche platform for the 2017 911 RSR have the gearbox completely in the back so that the engine could be a bit more towards the middle?

Probably...but seeing the driveshaft comes out of it i'm guessing it's just a general gearbox icon...or...could be just a dot...:cool:

breyzipp
18-02-2018, 10:18
Probably...but seeing the driveshaft comes out of it i'm guessing it's just a general gearbox icon...or...could be just a dot...:cool:

Let's just keep it at a massive chassis welding dot. ;) We really need that info for tuning the car! :P

Konan
18-02-2018, 10:22
Remove that dot and you'll save some weight...LOL

rmb24
23-02-2018, 22:51
thanks for posting that, and that's all i was saying in the first place. Every single car has the same mid engine look. I knew the Corvette C7R was not mid engine so i kept going through the list of cars to see what the rest showed and every one had the same graphic.

Also i don't know everything about cars, but i do know some. But someone that is just starting out and trying to make adjustments and going by what info the listed for every car, might make a wrong change due to that. For example with the C7.. with having the front slightly heavier, you would want stiffer spring setup to support the weight.