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ProDriver
21-02-2018, 07:18
While the poleman has to keep an eye and not pass 120km/h in a rolling start, the rest of the grid can speed up like there's no tomorrow without penalty at all. That gives to the rest of the driver a huge and double advantage:

- Penalty if the poleman are more than 120.
- The posibility that the second or other drivers pass him.

An example:

1st driver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM4z5r40Hbc

3rd driver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnxCbS_10-M

Asturbo
21-02-2018, 07:25
I agree. The poleman is the only one limited to 120Kmh before green. The rest of the field could leave space with the poleman, accelerate earlier and be much faster than him when crossing the line. Easy to pass, because he only can acelerate after the green.

One possible solution is remove the poleman limit when appears first red light. So he can launch the race when he wants (as IRL), and rivals behind him loose that unfair advantange.

m355y
21-02-2018, 07:27
yeah, I've set pole many a time and been passed by the second placed car well before the line without be able to do anything about it.

fbetes
21-02-2018, 07:28
One possible solution is remove the poleman limit when appears first red light. So he can launch the reace when he wants (as IRL), and rivals behind him loose that unfair advantange.
+1000000

It's a great proposal!

MaXyM
21-02-2018, 07:37
it doesn't solve anything. other cars will start to speed up ealier to gain position. In fact it's not only against poleman but against other racers who wait till green. It needs to be adressed in more complete way. I would prohibit accelerating once red is in the air. But I have a feeling it would give false positives in some cases as well as might be exploited too

Asturbo
21-02-2018, 07:44
it doesn't solve anything. other cars will start to speed up ealier to gain position. In fact it's not only against poleman but against other racers who wait till green. It needs to be adressed in more complete way. I would prohibit accelerating once red is in the air. But I have a feeling it would give false positives in some cases as well as might be exploited too
No, because the poleman could launch the race when he wants (not necessary when he is allowed). The problem now, is that everybody knows when he can accelerate and then you can speed up before this moment to pass him easily when it gets green.

If the speed limitation was removed earlier, everybody is going to be close to his rival to be aware when he accelerates.

MaXyM
21-02-2018, 07:54
ok it would add some randomeness into the process but it might still give opportunity to exploit the situation. And imo it will turn into start a race at the first red instead of green.

Asturbo
21-02-2018, 07:59
And imo it will turn into start a race at the first red instead of green.
Not quite, because you still can't pass before green (or crossing the line). Anyway this need a rethink from devs...

Ofnir4
21-02-2018, 09:20
Do it the WEC way, everyone on pit limiter. Keep the same logic the rest of the lap, but when you reach the last turn and once the spacing is decent, you are forced down to 60 kph with the limiter. After that, it's a battle of reaction time, not judging the distance and making sure you jump the start without gaining any position.

MaXyM
21-02-2018, 12:15
Not quite, because you still can't pass before green (or crossing the line). Anyway this need a rethink from devs...

By this I meant that the leader would always start acceleration on red, trying to avoid loosing advantage. so effectively race will start at red.
I think 2 things should be controlled by the game: distance to a car ahead (should be as close as possible) and speed change while red lights are lit. both things togegher shoul avoid gaining unfair advantage before green.

VelvetTorpedo
21-02-2018, 12:27
the unfair pole position is one of the very very few things that bothers me bad about PC2

Asturbo
21-02-2018, 12:31
By this I meant that the leader would always start acceleration on red
Not necessary. He will try o surprise his rivals accelerating when they don't spect. Others have to wait until poleman's move.
Watch i.e. the affair between Hamilton and Vettel in last Baku GP...

DECATUR PLAYA
21-02-2018, 13:28
The only problem with rolling starts is guys are not using any strategy on the rolling starts. The reason the poleman gets jumped is because he or she speeds up to max 75mph limit. If the poleman slows the field down to say 45 mph he is a lot harder to jump because he can get the same run on the green light as the guys behind him. The only thing that SMS needs to fix is guys actually jumping the poleman before the start without a penalty before the start which I have only seen once. Just because the speed limit is 75mph doesnt mean the poleman has to run 75.

Fight-Test
21-02-2018, 13:30
120 max not required, the pole sitter is to control the field. first light you should be going around 80, at second light tap the brakes and coast, then hammer the accelerator at or just after 3rd light to time your 120 speed limit with the green. You will crush them on the start. just like real life, kart racing starts: 101. Just remember you are in control, they can't run you over so if you going 20 they have to also. Use this advantage to your benefit. Try different speeds and timings till you get what you like and feel comfortable with.

The issue is you cannot pass someone in real life till after you cross the start finish at the start so guys in the back shouldn't be bunching the field into corner one because this rule keeps that from happening but we don't have that and the back of field can get runs and pass too early without punishment. It just keeps the field spaced more. Black flag at my track, its very unacceptable for the lower level racing because you see the most accidents from it but in the game a drive thru just like a jump start should be issued if the driver passes before start finish. (Just to add I haven't tested the start finish line since 4.0 so correct me if they added penalties for passing before start finish line but I have noticed the accidents are not happing with lag on starts now so hopefully lobbies switch to rolling starts so we can avoid alot of the first corner issues that come from standing starts.)

Ofnir4
21-02-2018, 14:01
A big thing for me is the difference between MP rolling starts and AI race rolling starts.

In a AI race, dropping from 120kph means death, going on the limiter or just any speed below doesn't prevent any AI car from overtaking you, they will simply cruise by you at 120kph until the green.
I'm quite sure all of us have done single player before jumping online, so we keep these untold rules of keeping on the 120kph limit unless you want to get mugged.
Once you jump online, you still have that reflex or habit.

But any speed you choose below 120 just resets the out-smarting game, you slow down, he slows down. You do give yourself some room for acceleration but that doesn't change the fact that going on a red light is just timing your jump start before he can do it, there is no controlling the field period. But if you fail, it's a drive through, if he does it, nothing until his nose is in front of yours.

Getting rid of the countdown clock in favor or the leader having to release the field would in my mind help the pole sitter. Now sitting on pole is a punishment, you get jumped and so are slower than the rest, prone to accidents. That's not quite the reward you imagined at the end of qualifying.

Fight-Test
21-02-2018, 14:14
I don't race AI so not sure there but I can see some issues arising from going slow but in MP its not a issue. Your just going to have to play the two modes differently. If your going 80 instead of 120 you have alot of breathing room if you are accelerating to the green, if you are already at 120 at the start then everyone just jumps on the gas at same time and its a drag race. Controlling the speed of field gives the polesitter every advantage and he should only have to ever worry about the other driver on front row. Just have to be strategic about how, when and what speed you control the field with. Take that thing down to a crawl if you want before launch as the slower you go the more it helps the pole sitter but I think that's a pretty weak way to do it. The key is to make anyone that is too bunched up have to tap the brake or get off gas in the final moments before green to break their rhythm and stifle their launch. You can pick up some ideas from real life series as pretty much all sports car racing has switched to rolling. You can see some good gamesmanship on starts in alot of series.

DECATUR PLAYA
21-02-2018, 14:56
A big thing for me is the difference between MP rolling starts and AI race rolling starts.

In a AI race, dropping from 120kph means death, going on the limiter or just any speed below doesn't prevent any AI car from overtaking you, they will simply cruise by you at 120kph until the green.
I'm quite sure all of us have done single player before jumping online, so we keep these untold rules of keeping on the 120kph limit unless you want to get mugged.
Once you jump online, you still have that reflex or habit.

But any speed you choose below 120 just resets the out-smarting game, you slow down, he slows down. You do give yourself some room for acceleration but that doesn't change the fact that going on a red light is just timing your jump start before he can do it, there is no controlling the field period. But if you fail, it's a drive through, if he does it, nothing until his nose is in front of yours.

Getting rid of the countdown clock in favor or the leader having to release the field would in my mind help the pole sitter. Now sitting on pole is a punishment, you get jumped and so are slower than the rest, prone to accidents. That's not quite the reward you imagined at the end of qualifying.

Thats the crazy thing about this forum and this game its so many ways to play. So my advice above is for multiplayer. I have read about the issues with the AI and as FlightTest said you will have to play the 2 game modes differently. I have never raced offline went straight to online. Rolling starts work really well online but most guys dont use them because they dont understand the strategy.

MaXyM
21-02-2018, 15:10
it's not about strategy. it's about rules of such kind of start enforded by the game. Leader loosing advantage is special case inly. you can get advantage other other drivers in the middle of car stack by leaving space to car ahead and then speeding early before cars ahead are able to do the same. Again, it's not strategy. IRL it's prohibited. For some rason irl cars create consistent stack without empty spaces. For some reason they cannot accelerate (under treat of penalty) before green.

Once the game would react properly on violation of rolling start rules, strategy will take natural place in this part of race.

Atak Kat
21-02-2018, 15:33
Sorry if this is a repeat question, but can someone point me to the general rules of the rolling starts as they should be in PC2?
I'm struggling to understand what you can/can't do before the green light.
Reading below, am I correct that when racing offline/AI, they simply do not respect the rules? (it might explain my confusion...)

Tar Heel
21-02-2018, 16:00
Do it the WEC way, everyone on pit limiter. Keep the same logic the rest of the lap, but when you reach the last turn and once the spacing is decent, you are forced down to 60 kph with the limiter. After that, it's a battle of reaction time, not judging the distance and making sure you jump the start without gaining any position.

If they increased the pit limited to 100kph I'd be down with this implementation.

Ofnir4
21-02-2018, 16:03
Sorry if this is a repeat question, but can someone point me to the general rules of the rolling starts as they should be in PC2?
I'm struggling to understand what you can/can't do before the green light.
Reading below, am I correct that when racing offline/AI, they simply do not respect the rules? (it might explain my confusion...)


Offline, the AI floors it on the last turn, whether or not you set a slow pace or not, they floor it and then go back to 120 for the straight. Your position relative to their at this point is irrelevant, they won't slow down for you, won't move for you. The best way (for me) is to use that 5 seconds delay before the penalty on the formation lap for speeding over 120kph to create a gap that the AI will rip through on the last turn and have, hopefully, my intended position. After the "get ready" message, you are stuck to 120kph, any speeding is a drive-through.

For Online, the way they should be is up for debate, I don't thing there one best way, optimal strategy, but there needs to be systems in place to encourage a good "start etiquette" and discourage tactics that are on the fringe of sportsmanship or legality.
I studied a bunch of game theory as a student, the rolling starts are a good example of a prisoner's dilemma where the polesitter is choosing from one neutral and one negative outcomes whereas P2 chooses from two positive outcomes. (the value depending on the polesitter's action). Until we have matching outcomes with similar responses, P1 will continue to get mugged.


If they increased the pit limited to 100kph I'd be down with this implementation.

I don't know what limitation the feature has, but having multiples pit limit speed depending on tracks and conditions (as in outside the pit area vs in), we could have a 120kph "pit" limiter that only applies to lap 0. A thing that could be helpful in a distant future to have code 80 and pitlane limit per track. (60, 80, 90)

emi11
21-02-2018, 16:23
+1000000

It's a great proposal!


Great job

Fight-Test
21-02-2018, 16:24
it's not about strategy. it's about rules of such kind of start enforded by the game. Leader loosing advantage is special case inly. you can get advantage other other drivers in the middle of car stack by leaving space to car ahead and then speeding early before cars ahead are able to do the same. Again, it's not strategy. IRL it's prohibited. For some rason irl cars create consistent stack without empty spaces. For some reason they cannot accelerate (under treat of penalty) before green.

Once the game would react properly on violation of rolling start rules, strategy will take natural place in this part of race.

I don't want to say you are incorrect without more context but I very much disagree with your general principle that no strategy exist. Which series rules are you talking about? Conti, Blanc, PWC? They all have different rules on rolling starts you might be pulling your info from a specific series.

1. First, the leader's speed is a big part of the strategy. There is a maximum speed but not minimum speed on start. The speed and how he bunches the field is very much a strategy based off not only his start skill but his vehicle capabilities on the start.

2. Some cars start better on rolling starts in a certain gear which means a certain speed or RPM. Once you know these things you create your starting strategy based off that. You want to use a strategy to get the best out of your car on the start. If that means going against a grain of what feels natural by slowing the field or speeding up the field.

3. When to start the acceleration process might be the biggest part of the game plan or strategy. So there is no rule of when to start acceleration in most series. Some have a cone or marker to show where they must be on track before they can start accelerating but they don't have to. You can go 35 mph from last corner to start finish or start accelerating 30 yards from start finish depending on a lot of factors. The first corner and distance/speed to first corner often effect this. You can keep speed down for the pack for the first corner by waiting as long as possible or vice versa if you want to build more speed for the run down to corner one. Again, the driver, car track conditions and who you are starting next to heavily effect the call on this.

4. Bunching the cars is a major tactic used. I think this is where you think there is no strategy as the cars are bunched and you can really cant do anything till the car ahead of you moves. In my real life series the rule is no less than one car length to the car in front on start but no more than 2 car lengths. You can gain a big acceleration advantage in one car length much less two. So hitting the lights correct or speeding up at the exact time the car in front builds up speed is very key and using every inch of room available to get your run is so incredibility important. In return, knowing this tactic and how the cars behind you will react you can use this against them by slowing the field right before green. Although it is heavily frowned upon to start to accelerate then slow or brake. Its better to sustain a speed for a distance then coast or tap brake before accelerating. If you speed up then, brake or slow heavily there will almost always be a wreck behind you so take car of the field when starting as you can cause alot of problems which will lead to a big discussion later in the paddock.

5. Line Placement: I have also seen very good drivers who start on 2nd or 3rd row make a intentional slow start to slip in behind a car to get to the inside or wanted line so they can be in specific place for turn 2 or 3 depending on track layout and i've seen guys take a slower start and come out of the situation better than where they started because they can slip up underneath or take away the outside on a corner to get the inside on the next and slow the car next to them by not being able to use all the track. Also putting them off line can get them in marbles or dust. Sometimes putting someone else in a non optimal situation is the better strategy than putting yourself in the optimal situation because it doesn't always exist, especially two or three wide.

That's basically your beginner strategies for race starts. Knowing the rules for your series or tract are key but once you know them and access your situation you can then begin to developed a deeper level of strategy based on the individual competitors and their tendencies. This is when your ready to take it to a different level.

I know that most of these strategies are controlled by the lead car who is king of the castle on rolling starts. My first few real life races I got eat up on the starts because I didn't know what to do other than just hit the gas when the car in front of me did. Trust me there is so much more that goes into it.

If no strategy existed then we wouldn't see cars getting passed on the start. No runs on the car in front, really nothing except if a driver makes a start error or from the cars lack of ability to start well and why you have to put yourself in the best position possible which takes strategy.

MaXyM
21-02-2018, 17:48
I never have said no strategy exist.
We are talking about current state of the game which allows applying unfair strategies. Since this thread is about missing validations of proper way of performing rolling start, there is no need to mask those lacks by convincing about strategy.
Thatīs why we should ask for fixing things first, then educate players about strategies. the strategies being compliant with actual rules

Fight-Test
21-02-2018, 17:59
I never have said no strategy exist.
We are talking about current state of the game which allows applying unfair strategies. Since this thread is about missing validations of proper way of performing rolling start, there is no need to mask those lacks by convincing about strategy.
Thatīs why we should ask for fixing things first, then educate players about strategies. the strategies being compliant with actual rules

The issue is with the AI not for MP users though. I don't think any unfair advantage exist in MP other than the ability to pass someone before crossing the Start/Finish line which in my opinion is a big issue. So the strategy does currently exist and is usable in MP. If you were talking specifically about AI I apologize for misunderstanding.

MaXyM
21-02-2018, 19:42
I ensure you there is serious issue in MP races. Being in the middle of the pack you can develop the gap to driver ahead of you and start accelerating on red light instead of green. This gives you unfair speed advantage against all other drivers. Often it gives p1 yet before T1.
Leagues which facing this problem can fight against this behaviour to some extent (post-race). but it's not easy because replays don't contain opponent cars before green light turns on.

Fight-Test
21-02-2018, 22:40
I ensure you there is serious issue in MP races. Being in the middle of the pack you can develop the gap to driver ahead of you and start accelerating on red light instead of green. This gives you unfair speed advantage against all other drivers. Often it gives p1 yet before T1.
Leagues which facing this problem can fight against this behaviour to some extent (post-race). but it's not easy because replays don't contain opponent cars before green light turns on.

The only rule the leagues need to enforce that can be reviewed after the race is not passing before you cross the start finish. This will keep every car not on front from being able to make a run because they can't pass before start finish (I will say that a few tracks go green at spots that make it harder to bunch the field and/or easy for guys to hold back to make a run). I have run enough rolling starts in this game every where in the pack to know that if the pole sitter is competent on how to bunch the field you can still shut down the guys holding back and trying to make runs. If they add a penalty for passing someone before the start line then you will see this handled on its own.

What I gather from you is that you feel a penalty for falling to many car lengths back before the start. You want to keep the pack tightly or consistent in distance apart all across the grid. I agree that this would be great to add especially if you are seeing issues from it. I can't imagine a league allowing this to begin with or anyone in and league thinking this is allowable but If you are seeing this alot then yea, it needs to be corrected. I just haven't witnessed it other than public lobbies. I think if you fall back over 2 car lengths behind the car in front then you are probably sandbagging so you can get a run and that's just too much of a advantage. SO maybe a time penalty for falling behind a certain distance of the car in front but we just have to be careful with the tracks that have a corner close before the start finish as some cars could be in a corner while others are speeding up and can force unwanted time added from something not their fault. I'm guessing these things were discussed in WMD and wonder what all came from their discussions of what is possible in the game.

I always run a formation lap before the rolling start, maybe I'm seeing a benefit in doing this vs. just the rolling start as most of the grid is in a very slow roll coming out last corner bunching the field. You can control the back of the pack better the slower you go and with all the pack having to catch back up and group up and get two wide you get alot more variance than just a rolling start. Maybe the straight up rolling start is a issue because you start at max allowable speed when you are given control and can time the start much easier from back of pack. Just a thought as you might already be doing a formation lap but just haven't seen any sandbagging issues with this.

I often appears in real life the flag stand controls the start in real life but that is not true. What happens is the pole sitter controls everything and when and where they want to start acceleration. The flag stand just reacts to the cars accelerating and getting close to the start finish. I have been in races without a acceleration cone (which are still optional for the pole sitter to accelerate) and had pole sitters take the grid all the way till his nose hit the start line before he accelerated. Messes up the entire fields start but gives the front row a big advantage which is smart but also why most tracks have a acceleration cone and is discussed in driver meetings how to handle the start.

I wish the game was intuitive enough to allow this. Green light would just turn the start over to the pole sitter but not require a actual race start or acceleration and once each car crosses the line they can do what they want but before that point the pole sitter is in control and then just throw the start flag with the first car crossing the line whether they have starting accelerating or not. The pole sitter could choose his spot to accelerate to keep it from being so scripted with the lights. It would be a much more natural start and with also adding something in which I believe you are leaning towards to keep the cars from falling too far back would be a big help with cars trying to make runs. Good discussion though as some see issues others don't based on who they race with or other factors. If it's a issue for one league then it could be a issue for all and a good solution hopefully can be found.

ProDriver
22-02-2018, 09:09
IMO the solution should be that the car behind do not separate you more than, 2 cars ??? ie and If the driver behind do not respect that maximum distance, be penalized as well

MaXyM
22-02-2018, 09:26
I wish the game was intuitive enough to allow this. Green light would just turn the start over to the pole sitter

It's indeed good idea. Never though about this way. But I can hear voices of opposition that IRL drivers know the moment green turns lit. So I'm not sure it's going to happen.

here is a video which shows more than 1000 words :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opFIrSVQ2aA

OddTimer
22-02-2018, 11:56
It's indeed good idea. Never though about this way. But I can hear voices of opposition that IRL drivers know the moment green turns lit. So I'm not sure it's going to happen.

here is a video which shows more than 1000 words :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opFIrSVQ2aA

wow nasty!

DECATUR PLAYA
22-02-2018, 15:21
It's indeed good idea. Never though about this way. But I can hear voices of opposition that IRL drivers know the moment green turns lit. So I'm not sure it's going to happen.

here is a video which shows more than 1000 words :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opFIrSVQ2aA

That video is worth a thousand words and shows exactly what happens with no strategy. The poleman did a great job of slowing the field to 55mph I would have slowed to 45mph but the reason you jumped them so cleanly is because the leader waited for green to accelerate. You started to accelerate just after the second red light. The leader could have started to accelerate when you did so he could have had the same run on the green light that your car did but he waited until the green light and he got destroyed. The trick for the poleman is knowing what speed to run before the lights for your car. Some cars accelerate faster than others. So the trick is knowing what speed to run so that you can accelerate full on at the 3rd red light without going over 75mph before green. The rule is 75mph before green. The rule does not penalize you for accelerating before green. The leader has to accelerate before the green to this is the strategy. If the leader is running 65 or 75mph before green there is no room to accelerate making him easier to jump.

Ofnir4
22-02-2018, 15:26
Overtaking before the start finish line, before the green is a jump start in 90% of races series. It's a shame PC2 doesn't really care where you sit on the grid when the countdown starts...

MaXyM
22-02-2018, 15:46
@DECATUR PLAYA
Do you really want to apply any strategy to situation when rules are being broke?
This is a quote of FIA regulation:


During the formation lap practice starts are forbidden and the formation must be kept as tight as possible

The speed of the Organizer’s Official Leading Car (as which a Safety Car will be used) must be around 80 kph during the formation lap. The Official Leading Car will pull off at the end of the formation lap. The cars will continue on their own with the pole position leading at a constant speed between 70 kph and a maximum of 90 kph. A judge of fact will monitor the speed of the car in pole position by radar. Any divergence between the prescribed speeds (70/90 kph) before the start is given will result in a drive-through penalty.
During the formation lap the red light will be on. The starting signal will be given by extinguishing all red lights. However, the race shall not be considered to have started until the cars pass the Start/Finish LINE and timing shall commence when the leading car passes that Start/Finish LINE (as described in the Code).
Overtaking is allowed only and exclusively after the cars have crossed the Start/Finish Line; until this time, all cars must hold their positions.

Effectively it means that no car is allowed to accelerate earlier than all lights are off. And no overtaking is possible before S/F line.
The leader cannot start accelerating before all lights are off - why do you suggest he may start earlier?

DECATUR PLAYA
22-02-2018, 16:02
@DECATUR PLAYA
Do you really want to apply any strategy to situation when rules are being broke?
This is a quote of FIA regulation:



Effectively it means that no car is allowed to accelerate earlier than all lights are off. And no overtaking is possible before S/F line.
The leader cannot start accelerating before all lights are off - why do you suggest he may start earlier?

We are not racing under FIA regulation. The rule set in place at the moment is the PC2 rule set. The only rules in place at the moment is under 75mph before green and you cant gain a position before green. The rules in place on the game do not penalize you for accelerating before. What im saying is that every form of racing has a unique rule set for starts why cant PC2 have its own rule set. What im saying is for us guys that understand the rule set thats in place we do not have a problem with rolling restarts.

MaXyM
22-02-2018, 16:19
Since we are simulating racing series (which is intention of PC2 authors), we expect reflecting racing series rules.
What you are saying about is attempt of adaptation to not existing or wrong rules. Yes, I admit, It can go this way. But only if devs will more or less officially reject the need of simulating particular rules.

sp3ctor
22-02-2018, 16:44
Hehehe poleman.

(sorry)

DECATUR PLAYA
22-02-2018, 16:59
Since we are simulating racing series (which is intention of PC2 authors), we expect reflecting racing series rules.
What you are saying about is attempt of adaptation to not existing or wrong rules. Yes, I admit, It can go this way. But only if devs will more or less officially reject the need of simulating particular rules.

Your points are well taken here im not disagreeing with the rules im just racing by the rules how they are. Its important to note many of the rules and much of the games functionality has already been debated in WMD. What was produced from those debates are what the devs figure would be best for the game as it is still a game.

DECATUR PLAYA
22-02-2018, 17:01
Hehehe poleman.

(sorry)

Ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah if the poleman doesnt know what he is doing he gets screwed with his own pole.

KANETAKER
22-02-2018, 17:07
We are not racing under FIA regulation. The rule set in place at the moment is the PC2 rule set. The only rules in place at the moment is under 75mph before green and you cant gain a position before green. The rules in place on the game do not penalize you for accelerating before. What im saying is that every form of racing has a unique rule set for starts why cant PC2 have its own rule set. What im saying is for us guys that understand the rule set thats in place we do not have a problem with rolling restarts.

The big problem is that as usual in any videogame, some dirty players come to learn how the system works to take advantage of it but in a negative way and in their favor... A few days ago, I experienced a problem in Daytona Oval , during the Formation Lap in an online race:

I had the Pole Position and during all that training lap the game forced me to keep my speed below 120 KM / h. Suddenly, the players who were placed in 2nd and 3rd place apparently agreed and they surpassed me at the same time, when they were not supposed to do so at the risk of being penalized, but ... they do not return the position, and then I accelerated to retake my 1st place during the Formation Lap, and .. oh surprise! The game warns me to return the earned position when it is assumed the other 2 cars had to have, and receive a time penalty, along with other unfair sanction because when decelerating to "give back" 1st place game assumed that I had deliberately reduced my speed and one of the cars hit me from behind and in the end I ended up receiving an UNFAIR +35 sec. penalty before the race officially began.

I was so angry, that before the lights of the traffic lights appeared (before the Formation Lap finished and the race started) I kicked those 2 players who took advantage of that situation (i'm the host), since I could not win the race anymore because those 2 players were barely 0.5 seconds slower than me, and with only 20 laps it would be impossible to discount the penalty of +35 seconds. I hope that having been kicked before the race officially began, they have not lost license points.

On the other hand, with the rest of the grid I did not have any problems, since from the 4th best place everyone was slower, at a rate of 4 seconds per lap. Although in the middle of the race one of the lagging cars apparently began to sabotage the race by waiting in one part of the circuit and charging any player who approached... - I suspect that player could be a friend of one of the 2 players I kicked minutes ago, and even they tried to reconnect to the race but the game automatically expelled them, so they may have told that player to take revenge on his name...- Since I was the host, the race ended with only 1 car in the lobby, that is, me...

Apparently, having a very high Skill Rank (license points) and entering a ranked online game is like swimming with a bleeding wound in a sea infested with sharks ... All other players know that if they finish one race ahead of a player of lvl greater than yours can win many more points than in any other race, and apparently try to use any resource at your fingertips, in this case, leave out of fight to said player, either by an accident (damage) or by accumulation of time penalties.

I hope that SMS can definitely FIX the problems that happen both in the manual Formation Lap and in the automatic Rolling Start... These bugs are ruining good races and even ruin friendships and reputations (in this race at Daytona apparently I was like the "villain" "having kicked all the other players at different times of the race). =(

Johnny Tavares
22-02-2018, 17:44
The big problem is that as usual in any videogame, some dirty players come to learn how the system works to take advantage of it but in a negative way and in their favor... A few days ago, I experienced a problem in Daytona Oval , during the Formation Lap in an online race:

I had the Pole Position and during all that training lap the game forced me to keep my speed below 120 KM / h. Suddenly, the players who were placed in 2nd and 3rd place apparently agreed and they surpassed me at the same time, when they were not supposed to do so at the risk of being penalized, but ... they do not return the position, and then I accelerated to retake my 1st place during the Formation Lap, and .. oh surprise! The game warns me to return the earned position when it is assumed the other 2 cars had to have, and receive a time penalty, along with other unfair sanction because when decelerating to "give back" 1st place game assumed that I had deliberately reduced my speed and one of the cars hit me from behind and in the end I ended up receiving an UNFAIR +35 sec. penalty before the race officially began.

I was so angry, that before the lights of the traffic lights appeared (before the Formation Lap finished and the race started) I kicked those 2 players who took advantage of that situation (i'm the host), since I could not win the race anymore because those 2 players were barely 0.5 seconds slower than me, and with only 20 laps it would be impossible to discount the penalty of +35 seconds. I hope that having been kicked before the race officially began, they have not lost license points.

On the other hand, with the rest of the grid I did not have any problems, since from the 4th best place everyone was slower, at a rate of 4 seconds per lap. Although in the middle of the race one of the lagging cars apparently began to sabotage the race by waiting in one part of the circuit and charging any player who approached... - I suspect that player could be a friend of one of the 2 players I kicked minutes ago, and even they tried to reconnect to the race but the game automatically expelled them, so they may have told that player to take revenge on his name...- Since I was the host, the race ended with only 1 car in the lobby, that is, me...

Apparently, having a very high Skill Rank (license points) and entering a ranked online game is like swimming with a bleeding wound in a sea infested with sharks ... All other players know that if they finish one race ahead of a player of lvl greater than yours can win many more points than in any other race, and apparently try to use any resource at your fingertips, in this case, leave out of fight to said player, either by an accident (damage) or by accumulation of time penalties.

I hope that SMS can definitely FIX the problems that happen both in the manual Formation Lap and in the automatic Rolling Start... These bugs are ruining good races and even ruin friendships and reputations (in this race at Daytona apparently I was like the "villain" "having kicked all the other players at different times of the race). =(

It would be better if an opponent's license could only be seen after the race.

DECATUR PLAYA
22-02-2018, 19:05
The big problem is that as usual in any videogame, some dirty players come to learn how the system works to take advantage of it but in a negative way and in their favor... A few days ago, I experienced a problem in Daytona Oval , during the Formation Lap in an online race:

I had the Pole Position and during all that training lap the game forced me to keep my speed below 120 KM / h. Suddenly, the players who were placed in 2nd and 3rd place apparently agreed and they surpassed me at the same time, when they were not supposed to do so at the risk of being penalized, but ... they do not return the position, and then I accelerated to retake my 1st place during the Formation Lap, and .. oh surprise! The game warns me to return the earned position when it is assumed the other 2 cars had to have, and receive a time penalty, along with other unfair sanction because when decelerating to "give back" 1st place game assumed that I had deliberately reduced my speed and one of the cars hit me from behind and in the end I ended up receiving an UNFAIR +35 sec. penalty before the race officially began.

I was so angry, that before the lights of the traffic lights appeared (before the Formation Lap finished and the race started) I kicked those 2 players who took advantage of that situation (i'm the host), since I could not win the race anymore because those 2 players were barely 0.5 seconds slower than me, and with only 20 laps it would be impossible to discount the penalty of +35 seconds. I hope that having been kicked before the race officially began, they have not lost license points.

On the other hand, with the rest of the grid I did not have any problems, since from the 4th best place everyone was slower, at a rate of 4 seconds per lap. Although in the middle of the race one of the lagging cars apparently began to sabotage the race by waiting in one part of the circuit and charging any player who approached... - I suspect that player could be a friend of one of the 2 players I kicked minutes ago, and even they tried to reconnect to the race but the game automatically expelled them, so they may have told that player to take revenge on his name...- Since I was the host, the race ended with only 1 car in the lobby, that is, me...

Apparently, having a very high Skill Rank (license points) and entering a ranked online game is like swimming with a bleeding wound in a sea infested with sharks ... All other players know that if they finish one race ahead of a player of lvl greater than yours can win many more points than in any other race, and apparently try to use any resource at your fingertips, in this case, leave out of fight to said player, either by an accident (damage) or by accumulation of time penalties.

I hope that SMS can definitely FIX the problems that happen both in the manual Formation Lap and in the automatic Rolling Start... These bugs are ruining good races and even ruin friendships and reputations (in this race at Daytona apparently I was like the "villain" "having kicked all the other players at different times of the race). =(

First of all KANETAKER Formation lap and public room bad idea. Second you shouldnt have accelerated you should have forced them to slow down. When you accelerated the field accerated and thats why you got hit from behind. Formation laps are a little buggy but in most cases its the community thats not ready to run formation laps in a public room setting.

To your second point when you are a high skill ranked player you better have your gameface on when the race begins. This is the entire reason for the skill ranking system. You can swim with sharks if you dont get cut.

KANETAKER
22-02-2018, 19:25
It would be better if an opponent's license could only be seen after the race.
Or at least that only the letter of SECURITY is shown. On the other hand, hiding the skill points can help the races return to the way they were before, so that everyone can participate in the races in a disinterested way, although unfortunately, in some cases some incentive is needed, and misunderstandings can occur again. complaints due to the operation of such system as for example: After having won a race of 10 laps starting from the last position and exceeding 20 cars, you discover that you have only won 3 or 5 points, because unknowingly it turns out that all the other players were of a level too inferior to yours (1800 vs 1200).

RJay
22-02-2018, 20:17
another issue with rolling starts is that they are on the side of the pole on the grid, whilst irl the pole of a rolling start gets the inside line for the first corner AFAIK.

Flamaros
22-02-2018, 21:04
I think that every body should be limited to 120km/h.

At least the pit speed limiter should be able to target 120km/h during the formation lap (as we shouldn't be able to pit during this lap, everything will goes fine).
Having the top speed limited, will solve the risk to get the penalty, and we will be able to have the throttle pedal at 100% before the green lights. By only having to remove the speed limiter when lights goes green will be much easier and already help a lot I think.

In career mode I always loose the pole because I can't stay exactly at 120km/h and the second car can almost overtake me without any issue.

DECATUR PLAYA
23-02-2018, 05:49
There is another option for rolling starts. You can do AI controlled rolling starts. If you go into your options from the main game screen there is a option to disable manual rolling starts. When you do this if you then create a online game with manual rolling starts it will give you a AI controlled rolling start.

Here is the problem. Before patch 1.4 or 4 it was a lot of complaints about AI starts. Well its no different in multiplayer. The AI will do some wacky stuff. For instance we had a AI start at Bugatti once and all the AI cars in the left lane started in the sand. On the otherhand the starts were very good at tracks where the start is on the straight. Normally the AI problems were associated with starts coming out of turns. This may all be fixed now with patch 1.4.

I still like manual rolling starts though because I like the strategy involved. I have been polesitter many times and I rarely get jumped on the start.