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View Full Version : Can't keep heat in Ligier LMP-3 Brakes and Tires



davekojo
23-02-2018, 05:00
I know the car isn't popular but does anyone else have an issue keeping heat in the brakes and hard tires for the Ligier LMP-3?

I've completely closed the brake ducts but the brakes don't hold their heat and their doesn't seem to be heat soak into the tires. I've adjust the tire pressures a little bit higher and lower from the default pressures but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I haven't done tests on the soft tires or the Ginetta does anyone have any setup tips that might help for the LMP3? My "tricks" for regulating tire temps in other cars don't seem to work with this

hkraft300
23-02-2018, 07:17
What ambient and track temp are you running on?
I've only driven the Ginetta P3 (love it). The brakes can drop to a minimum of ~300℃. If the track conditions are too cold you an switch to soft tires and run closed brake ducts you'll be OK for grip.
Otherwise a screenshot or 3 would be handy for the devs to have a look at.

davekojo
23-02-2018, 09:54
Thanks hkraft. I forgot to check track and ambient temps . Just re-did my test at brands in the summer 27C ambient 42C track. Everything was up to temp.

I don't think the hards have quite the range as the GT3 hards but will need to test more.

hkraft300
23-02-2018, 14:12
42c track at brands should be hard tire territory.
You could try soft if the peak temp stays <90℃.
Aim for a hot pressure of ~1.7bar for this track.

Jussi Karjalainen
23-02-2018, 15:58
42c track at brands should be hard tire territory.Depending on a lot of things really, if you have enough aero grip that you're not slipping much you might be able to get away with softs, especially on LMP and GTE cars where there's more overlap between softs and hard than in GT3 and GT4.

RC-5PO
23-02-2018, 17:23
Depending on a lot of things really, if you have enough aero grip that you're not slipping much you might be able to get away with softs, especially on LMP and GTE cars where there's more overlap between softs and hard than in GT3 and GT4.
Jussi. Is there any type of rule of thumb for using soft vs. hards with the new patch? Before it was use softs below 25 degrees Celsius track temp. What about now? Also, I'm talking about all cars with this choice, not just LMP2s. Lastly, would you say Casey's tire pressure ranges are still what we should be shooting for and not worry about temperatures as much as pressures still? Thanks in advance.

hkraft300
23-02-2018, 23:20
Depending on a lot of things really, if you have enough aero grip that you're not slipping much you might be able to get away with softs, especially on LMP and GTE cars where there's more overlap between softs and hard than in GT3 and GT4.

If you have enough Aero grip + high track temp wouldn't that cook the soft tires anyway? They don't seem to tolerate sliding as well as hard tires, especially in the overlap conditions.

Jussi Karjalainen
24-02-2018, 09:11
Jussi. Is there any type of rule of thumb for using soft vs. hards with the new patch? Before it was use softs below 25 degrees Celsius track temp. What about now? Also, I'm talking about all cars with this choice, not just LMP2s. Lastly, would you say Casey's tire pressure ranges are still what we should be shooting for and not worry about temperatures as much as pressures still? Thanks in advance.Other than for a few specific cars we haven't adjusted the temperature ranges significantly since launch, so for the most part things should be close to what they were. The biggest difference between softs and hards is in GT3/GT4 and other classes based on those compounds like Huracan SuperTrofeo, where the idea is to put most focus on the Hard tyres and have Softs mainly as a low temperature option when nothing else works, since most series only allow Hards normally, and don't run in as varied conditions as we have to account for. For cars other than GT3 you might want to consider swapping earlier since the difference isn't as great, and there can be a significant difference in how early a car can start using Softs.

That said 25C definitely sounds like temperatures where I'd want to drive a few laps with both tyres to see how they react.

Pressures should be pretty much the same, though I personally never really used them for temperature adjustments. I pick whichever tyres seem to run at closer to their happy area and adjust pressures so that when they're hot the pressures get to where they're supposed to be.

If you have enough Aero grip + high track temp wouldn't that cook the soft tires anyway? They don't seem to tolerate sliding as well as hard tires, especially in the overlap conditions.My experience with my driving style at least has been that more downforce = less overheating. Of course high track/ambient temp can still cook the tyres, but I find I can often swap to softs in much warmer conditions when driving LMP1/2/3 cars than I can with GTE cars.

Basically my rule of thumb is that if your hards aren't getting to 85 C consistently, or your softs are going past 95 C consistently, try swapping your tyres.

hkraft300
24-02-2018, 13:34
Basically my rule of thumb is that if your hards aren't getting to 85 C consistently, or your softs are going past 95 C consistently, try swapping your tyres.

This works for me.
See how the tires are working despite the conditions. Use what works best.
Some people seem to think there are magic numbers/ settings will bring them magic pace.

davekojo
25-02-2018, 23:52
Over the weekend I've had time to do some more thorough testing.

My temp "problem" was more Areo related than anything else. I was applying my GT3 setup philosophy to the cars. Thanks to Jussi's explanation it makes sense as to why it wasn't working.

For my hard tire setup I need to trim the areo so the car will slide more generating more heat in the tires. For softs I can use more areo and keep the tires where they need to be.

What is more interesting to me (which I discussed in WMD but assumed wasn't implemented) is that the two compounds appear to converge over 2 stints (at least with my driving style and setups). My pace on the soft tire was faster than the hard in normal racing conditions. However I could realistically only single stint the softs. Although I was slower on the hards I could double stint them without problem and hold a reasonable lap time. Based on my lap times i did some quick calculations. The time to change tires during a pit stop leads to the race duration/laps able to be completed being the same for a double stint race on both tires (pit stop is faster on hard tires as they don't need to be changed like the softs).

I suspect the GTE, LMP2 and LMP1 tires have a similar performance gap. So this may come in handy for you endurance racers looking for a clever strategy advantage.

Jussi Karjalainen
26-02-2018, 00:46
What is more interesting to me (which I discussed in WMD but assumed wasn't implemented) is that the two compounds appear to converge over 2 stints (at least with my driving style and setups). My pace on the soft tire was faster than the hard in normal racing conditions. However I could realistically only single stint the softs. Although I was slower on the hards I could double stint them without problem and hold a reasonable lap time. Based on my lap times i did some quick calculations. The time to change tires during a pit stop leads to the race duration/laps able to be completed being the same for a double stint race on both tires (pit stop is faster on hard tires as they don't need to be changed like the softs).Success! Yes, that's exactly what we were aiming for, good to hear that at least for someone in some situation it worked out. =)

Gav88888
26-02-2018, 11:31
I thought that is how all tires worked when comparing soft with hard, for example I did a GT3 league race last night, 25 laps at Red Bull and when practising for the race I was doing full race distance on soft and hard doing the same time and not needing to pit in either race. 1:33 was my lap time and I held this every lap.

Is there a cut off time when softs typically wear out, as pre patch that was around lap 10 that I noticed a lot more understeer in the car and I was 2-3 seconds a lap slower compared to having fresh tires, but post patch 4.0 25 laps were fine on softs giving good grip from start to finish, same on hards...

Track was in summertime, midday, but no idea of track temp, I never really pay attention to it, I just go by the tire temps, if I am struggling to get 80 on hard I swap to softs.

Jussi Karjalainen
26-02-2018, 13:47
To some extent that's how it is intended to work, yes (gotta be careful because there might be exceptions I don't remember right now). Softs are generally intended to last for a single fuel stint (assuming somewhat rough driving, you can certainly stretch them longer by not pushing as hard and with good technique), while hards can be double or even triple stinted in some cases.

Whether or not everything pans out will depend on a lot of things. Temperature is a big one, if your fuel tank is enough for 40 laps and it's so cold that hards never warm up and softs are a second per lap quicker, then it's pretty obvious which ones you should go for. IIRC GT racing in-game doesn't allow refueling and tyre changing at the same time, so pit stops are pretty long when doing both, but other racing classes could allow tyres to be changed while the car is refueled. Refueling almost if not always takes longer than changing tyres, so in that situation there's really no reason why you wouldn't change tyres.

Lots to think about there. Kind of like how the whole weather and climate system was planned, the idea is that there really isn't a single best way to do things, because there really isn't any such thing in real life. It'll always be conditional and depend on lots of things, climate, weather, track, car, driver... We've had these games where there's one pinpoint optimal solution and then you just repeat that, and we wanted to move away from it to some extent, and give a more in-depth, lively world for you to play in. I think we did pretty good overall.




I just go by the tire temps, if I am struggling to get 80 on hard I swap to softsGood man, that's the spirit.

Though for debugging a problem that stuff is important. =)

davekojo
27-02-2018, 05:18
Someone should create a tire wear sticky post discussing the intention of each compound for their respective classes. I know open wheel soft compounds still wear at a much faster rate than the hards, which is understandable.

GT3/4 have the "largest" variance in working range between the tires as the softs are/were originally intended just for cold conditions

Endurance tires are intended to converge over 2 stints in "normal" racing conditions (late spring, summer, early autumn) between 10am and 4pm)