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DoubleDelta
23-02-2018, 18:13
I have noticed primarily on Spa that there are no brake boards by the side of the circuit. I have noticed in other games and in real life races there are braking markers/boards (like the 100 meter board before a corner) by the side of the circuit. Am I missing something in the settings or was it not implemented in this game? Are there any other circuits that have this same issue?


https://youtu.be/lIRYrgVhJYQ
At 1:39 you can see the boards coming into the chicane.

Gix916
23-02-2018, 18:43
those are probably put there just for F1. If you watch an onboard GT3 race at Spa the boards aren't there.

VtecYo
23-02-2018, 20:40
Wrong. Last year I was at Spa 24h race and the breaking markers after kemmel straight were there. 250601

Mahjik
23-02-2018, 20:50
Wrong. Last year I was at Spa 24h race and the breaking markers after kemmel straight were there.

Where they there around 2011 when SMS actually modelled the track?

VtecYo
23-02-2018, 21:07
Yes https://youtu.be/8G7dHTk7WmU?t=24s

RoccoTTS
23-02-2018, 21:12
Those boards are always there, not only with F1 and you can see them in YT videos from 2008, 2009,....

cpcdem
23-02-2018, 21:38
Yes https://youtu.be/8G7dHTk7WmU?t=24s

Well, this video shows the boards exactly the same way as they are shown in game...Or did I miss something?

Mahjik
23-02-2018, 21:42
Where they there around 2011 when SMS actually modelled the track?


Yes https://youtu.be/8G7dHTk7WmU?t=24s

Sorry, I was referring the markers the OP was referring to...


Those boards are always there, not only with F1 and you can see them in YT videos from 2008, 2009,....

With at least the markers the OP is referring to, those seem to either be newer or for F1 only (as there are many GT and older videos without them). Not to say there aren't some others not modeled but Spa is not a laser scanned track so there will be differences.

MaXyM
24-02-2018, 09:20
Where they there around 2011 when SMS actually modelled the track?

Why should we care where in the past SMS modelled a track. Even if some track has been originally modelled for PC1, it's obvious we are expecting content matching PC2


Spa is not a laser scanned track so there will be differences.

It's not a reason though. LS helps with micro-details which cannot be caught without it, but not with bigger objects. I mean, in case of them, comparable modelling effort is needed.

Mad Al
24-02-2018, 10:51
Why should we care where in the past SMS modelled a track. Even if some track has been originally modelled for PC1, it's obvious we are expecting content matching PC2



It's not a reason though. LS helps with micro-details which cannot be caught without it, but not with bigger objects. I mean, in case of them, comparable modelling effort is needed.

if a scan catches details like trees, buildings, armcos, markers, etc. it allows for accurate sizing and positioning to match.. why anyone would think that it wouldn't help is slightly confusing.

MaXyM
24-02-2018, 12:35
I believe it is for someone who is not familiar with amount of work needed to transform LS data to objects. The bigger the object is the less crucial LS scanning is. Especially no LS cannot be excuse of missing braking boards. You can measure a distance in 3D program as well - LS is not needed for that at all

In addition, LS doesn't mean complete area is created from LS data. Often it is limited to track only. Environment is more or less created "manually", from existing assets. This is constrained by resources. Time to create track is shorter when reusing objects. To optimize game you have to use limited number of textures/objects and reuse them multiple times rather then create distinct mesh/texture for every single tree. Creating it from LS don't make sense at this point.
This is why laser-scanned tracks available in sims differ one from another.

Mahjik
24-02-2018, 16:24
Why should we care where in the past SMS modelled a track. Even if some track has been originally modelled for PC1, it's obvious we are expecting content matching PC2

A sim racing track is a point in time creation. No developer today updates their tracks every year nor every minute chance a track makes. There is just no ROI in that work. As you now get visibility to with more behind the scenes footage of F1, you get to see that many tracks makes certain changes for each race. In short, when a track was constructed will give you an idea on what assets will be modeled.



Often it is limited to track only. Environment is more or less created "manually", from existing assets.

This is not correct. You can see from various shared scanned images that iRacing shares (and I've seen some from SMS's development as well) that peripheral assets are in the scans. You are correct, that those objects are not used directly as they are just opaque objects. But they are used for placement of actual 3D assets.

MaXyM
24-02-2018, 17:59
Maybe you missed my point. I'm paying for a new product. Not collection of assets created by a studio since it has been founded. So as a customer I really don't care if it is created in the past and updated for release or created from scratch for each game.
What I'm expecting is up-to-date content, not second hand quality.
And while I understand that some part of software (ie games) are reusable (code, assets etc), you shouldn't use it as argument talking with a customer. We, developer and customer, are not on the same boat. We customers don't have to care about ROI, devs incomes etc. I though it's obvious.

Speaking about LS. You are saying I'm not correct but a few words later you confirm what I meant. It's really wacky.
But to make it clear: most of environment objects are created manually, not from point clouds. And then used multiple times at various places. Yes, LS can help to place those objects on places to reflect real life. But placing braking markers doesn't require laser scanned data. You can measure 50m/100m in 3D program.

Mahjik
24-02-2018, 18:10
I'm paying for a new product.

Wrong again. You are paying for a license to use assets owned by a specific IP. The only say you have is your own money. Either you spend it on what the development studio is using, or you don't.

In this day and age, no IP is net new.

MaXyM
24-02-2018, 18:26
You are not reading carefully enough what I write. I'm not expecting it's built from scratch. I'm expecting it's up to date.

Mahjik
24-02-2018, 18:30
You are not reading carefully enough what I write. I'm not expecting it's built from scratch. I'm expecting it's up to date.

I'm reading exactly what you write and correcting what is wrong. No matter how you phrase it, it doesn't change how development studios value their time (calculate ROI). Do they spend their time updating old assets, or creating new ones? In a perfect world where time doesn't move and there is an infinite source of money; it's both. That world doesn't exist today.

MaXyM
24-02-2018, 18:50
Jezus Christ... In normal world nobody is selling the same thing twice.

Mahjik
24-02-2018, 19:01
Jezus Christ... In normal world nobody is selling the same thing twice.

You really believe Sony remodels everything for each release?

MaXyM
24-02-2018, 21:38
where I wrote I'm expecting everything to be remodeled?
Is my English really that bad?

cpcdem
25-02-2018, 00:15
Jezus Christ... In normal world nobody is selling the same thing twice.

Heh, you really need to see the tracks of Grid 2 and their next iteration, Grid Autosport :)
But I was not complaining, I liked having the tracks in the new game, too, even if they were identical.

Same with PCARS, it's not the same thing, yes it *might" be the exact same track, but you get to used it now with the better FFB, better physics, better sounds, better almost everything. They are not selling just that one thing...

Edit: And I also prefer them to spend resources in order to bring us more tracks (as they did bring a lot more in PC2), than updating the existing ones. Although yes of course it would be ideal if they could do both...

Mahjik
25-02-2018, 00:27
Is my English really that bad?

You English isn't bad. They way you communicate is less than ideal. In short, your ideals don't line up with the way things actually work in the world today. You don't have "second-hand" assets. You have assets that have a lot of hard work put into them. They may not have been created within the last two years, but that doesn't mean there was any less effort and work put into them.

MaXyM
25-02-2018, 10:51
Let me to be honest: IMO it's you who communicate in suboptimal way.
Please read again your sentence from 4th post. It sounds like: why OP bother us complaining about missing brake boards. It's obvious the game might contain not updated tracks;

First of all, you are not SMS member. I don't understand why you are put yourself into SMS defender position, being not asked for (and it's not the first time mods defending game issues instead of stay neutral)
Maybe SMS even don't want to spread information about old assets remaining not updated. IMO it's not good for company to unveil such facts.
Second, I wrote multiple times: I'm not requesting building things from scratch (you insisting in every single answer). I'm expecting that new title has location updated, especially in crucial for simracing areas. Or maybe SMS should provide information that some tracks have remained unchanged since PC1. But I'm sure it would meet bad critics, wouldn't it? If yes, then it's for sure something wrong with such approach. If no - why there is no such info.

Mad Al
25-02-2018, 10:59
There is not a single track that has not had work done on it to add LiveTrack 3.0, LiveGrass, 3D Trees and loads of other stuff, that you may not actually notice, but it still has been done..

As for WMD members and mods defending SMS, maybe they saw just how much work has gone into PC2, even on tracks that YOU think are unchanged

MaXyM
25-02-2018, 11:05
I know that work has been done in areas you listed.
But if there are missing assets which obviously are expected, it shouldn't hit an answer like from mentioned post #4

And one more thing: Do @Mahjik is sure that those track hasn't been updated due to ROI? Maybe SMS had wanted to update those areas but it has leaked between their fingers? Or maybe even work has been done but missed while preparing final build? Do we know that? What about to ask SMS?

Mad Al
25-02-2018, 11:24
I know that work has been done in areas you listed.
But if there are missing assets which obviously are expected, it shouldn't hit an answer like from mentioned post #4

Those brake markers sitting on the grass appear to only be added when there is an F1 race.. so to say there are missing assets is pushing it a bit. The circuit is modelled on more or less how it should be for the majority of time..

MaXyM
25-02-2018, 12:05
You obviously haven't read post #3 which proofs those boards are using during Blancpain events too
And those are not sitting in the grass. Those are mounted to the fences.

Mad Al
25-02-2018, 12:07
FFS, I give up.

Rodgerzzz
25-02-2018, 14:16
We just want the freakin' era/series appropriate brake markers, it's still real to me goddamnit!! ;)

cpcdem
25-02-2018, 14:32
You obviously haven't read post #3 which proofs those boards are using during Blancpain events too
And those are not sitting in the grass. Those are mounted to the fences.

Yes, that's how they are right now also in game, isn't it?

CastrolGT
25-02-2018, 14:37
speaking of assets, it is normal to have those green pylons in the inside of the curves when they never existed on the real track? just asking because I would like to know that difference

Mahjik
25-02-2018, 16:57
Let me to be honest: IMO it's you who communicate in suboptimal way.

Actually no. The mods have been watching you for a while. Your communication style is abrasive. You berate anyone who disagrees with you and you are on the a short list or users coming close to leaving this forum. Anyone who has a different opinion than yours, you attack them on the forum. This thread is yet again showing that behavior. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. These are the same issues which got you removed from WMD1 and you are close to having history repeat itself again. I would think before you post again.


First of all, you are not SMS member. I don't understand why you are put yourself into SMS defender position, being not asked for (and it's not the first time mods defending game issues instead of stay neutral)

Never claimed to be a SMS member. However, I have been part of WMD since the beginning (without being removed) so yes I have more insight into PC2 than you do.


Maybe SMS even don't want to spread information about old assets remaining not updated. IMO it's not good for company to unveil such facts.

SMS has never been shy in the past. I don't think you'll find SMS scared to say that they didn't update every single track to any of the latest track changes (i.e. ignoring work done on the tracks for the PC2 technology features like Live Track 3.0, etc). There was actually some talk about this on the GT forums where there was a similar comment made about spending the time on new tracks rather than spending that time on updating existing tracks and bringing no new locations. There were a few tracks that had some changes done, like updating Nordschleife with the laser scan. There were some minor changes to all tracks with regards to trees, but those were more technology changes. Outside of yourself, I don't think you'll find many people that would trade updated existing content with new content. Personally, with the time resources SMS have, I think they made the choices.


Second, I wrote multiple times: I'm not requesting building things from scratch (you insisting in every single answer). I'm expecting that new title has location updated, especially in crucial for simracing areas.

Sure, there is your expectation and then there is reality. They don't line up so move on.


If no - why there is no such info.

What use is that information? So far, you are the only person that cares out of the thousands of players that have been playing PC2 since September. Again, ROI.. There is none.

Mahjik
25-02-2018, 17:00
speaking of assets, it is normal to have those green pylons in the inside of the curves when they never existed on the real track? just asking because I would like to know that difference

The pylons are their own artist touches. They were brought up by WMD way back in PC1 (having pylons where there are none in real life) and it's something SMS will keep using (no real reason was ever provided).

CastrolGT
25-02-2018, 17:06
The pylons are their own artist touches. They were brought up by WMD way back in PC1 (having pylons where there are none in real life) and it's something SMS will keep using (no real reason was ever provided).

for Project CARS 1, I understand as it had no real penalty system and those pylons damage your car when you hit them. but yeah, in PC2, it's quite odd. I was just wondering why they were still there :)

tommysalami
25-02-2018, 19:49
speaking of assets, it is normal to have those green pylons in the inside of the curves when they never existed on the real track? just asking because I would like to know that difference

Yeah, I think most would agree that those pylons need to go, along with the advertisement boards they added on the grass on many tracks.

Mahjik
25-02-2018, 19:51
Yeah, I think most would agree that those pylons need to go, along with the advertisement boards they added on the grass on many tracks.

There are paid advertisements in the sim, so those are likely not going anywhere.