PDA

View Full Version : What wheel and ffb do you use?



CSL-Drive
24-02-2018, 13:54
I tried G29 and T-GT, and I am 100% control of the car, when I just disable the tone slider of the ffb settings in pc2.
Trying to drive with tone, I feel nothing of what is actually happening, and keep sliding. Without it, I drive like the car is an extension of me.
So I wonder, what is tone for anyway? Anyone here uses it?

Gain - Weight - Tone - Fx
With G 29, I used Immersive 100 - 30 - 0 - 0
Weak wheel, easily clips, and fx interferes with front wheel weight feedback.

on T-GT (t300 ingame) I use immersive 100 - 100 (or lower if clipping) - 0 - 70

Zaskarspants
24-02-2018, 14:44
Many people, like myself, prefer low tone setting. I lack the knowledge to offer a technical description of the difference between high and low tone but for me at low tone I can feel wheel grip and slip very clearly with high tone reducing these forces and increasing forces that feel more like weight shifting and g forces.

Informative and raw tend to be less dramatic than immersive. I find immersive confusing with informative and raw offering up more useful detail.

CastrolGT
24-02-2018, 15:17
Thrustmaster T500RS with permanent hydraulic brake mod and stiffer clutch and throttle.
FFB settings:
Global forces(mine is in french, so, the translating can not be the same): 60%
Constant forces: 100%
Periodic forces: 100%
Spring forces: 100%
Damper forces: 100%
Self centering via the game

ingame:
Immersive
gain 35
volume 40
tone 60
fx 35

feels really great :)

CSL-Drive
24-02-2018, 15:57
Many people, like myself, prefer low tone setting. I lack the knowledge to offer a technical description of the difference between high and low tone but for me at low tone I can feel wheel grip and slip very clearly with high tone reducing these forces and increasing forces that feel more like weight shifting and g forces.

Informative and raw tend to be less dramatic than immersive. I find immersive confusing with informative and raw offering up more useful detail.
I am glad I am not the only one, and it being more about seat forces or g forces is exactly what I thought aswell. I find it really shocking that they have put that kind of force feedback into the wheel, it makes absolutely no sense Oo I mean my steering wheel is not a chair. However, I wonder why it is in the game, by default then.

CSL-Drive
24-02-2018, 15:58
Thrustmaster T500RS with permanent hydraulic brake mod and stiffer clutch and throttle.
FFB settings:
Global forces(mine is in french, so, the translating can not be the same): 60%
Constant forces: 100%
Periodic forces: 100%
Spring forces: 100%
Damper forces: 100%
Self centering via the game

ingame:
Immersive
gain 35
volume 40
tone 60
fx 35

feels really great :)
Thanks also for sharing, can you tell me why you have added tone, what does it serve for you?
I can't figure out what it is for and why people would use it.

CastrolGT
24-02-2018, 16:16
I added it to feel a bit less of the wheel and more about sliding. it's a difficult setting and I don't think that I would leave it like that. I try to have a realistic feeling(feeling what you really feel in the wheel). but as I don't have a real car, I can only make some approximative settings :/ (I already drove some cars. just not long enough to remember how exactly the wheel feels)

Mahjik
24-02-2018, 16:28
Tone, depending on which flavor you are using, will give more feeling of what the rear of the car is doing. Too much of it and it deadens out what you get from the front.

CSL-Drive
24-02-2018, 16:29
I added it to feel a bit less of the wheel and more about sliding. it's a difficult setting and I don't think that I would leave it like that. I try to have a realistic feeling(feeling what you really feel in the wheel). but as I don't have a real car, I can only make some approximative settings :/ (I already drove some cars. just not long enough to remember how exactly the wheel feels)
Oh I see, weight is extension of what you feel in the front wheel, based on what you feel in the front wheel you can easily know wether or not you're sliding your rear aswell, it becomes lighter, and if you understeer, it becomes only a little bit lighter, and you can very easily catch a slide with this feedback. If you add tone, it dampens the weight completely, causing you to feel nothing of what is happening to the car, and makes your wheel into a chair simulator that is only helpful if you were to sit on your wheel, or attach a chair on your wheel so your chair turns to simulate the g forces while going thru corners. But my wheel is not a chair, so I don't use tone, personally.
That is in my experience. Adding tone is like making a music composer deaf. I see no use for it. Yet I wonder why it is in the game.

CSL-Drive
24-02-2018, 16:31
Tone, depending on which flavor you are using, will give more feeling of what the rear of the car is doing. Too much of it and it deadens out what you get from the front.
So I was driving formula a, and with tone, my rear keeps sliding, cause I don't feel it at all. But with tone set off, I feel the front wheels so well, I emmediately feel the subtle changes of the weight of the front wheel as the rear is sliding, and am able to catch it and correct it, instantly and succesfully, and feel all the weight and traction return to the wheel.
So if tone were to be simulated in my chair, with a motion simulator kit, perhaps that is what tone is for?

I mean with every car, I can drift around corners, without losing control of the car, as long as tone is set to 0, but with tone, it feels like I am driving blind, like rolling a dice and hope I wont slide. The tone seems to interfere with weight in my wheel.

Zaskarspants
24-02-2018, 16:32
I am glad I am not the only one, and it being more about seat forces or g forces is exactly what I thought aswell. I find it really shocking that they have put that kind of force feedback into the wheel, it makes absolutely no sense Oo I mean my steering wheel is not a chair. However, I wonder why it is in the game, by default then.

I find it shocking that you find this shocking.

In a real car in the real world there are a range of forces and inputs that a sim lacks and for years designers have leveraged the haptic feedback potential of ffb wheels to communicate extra information, including a proxy for g forces felt in a real car.

The flavours and settings available allow for tuning according to personal taste to achieve the best for all. For example, you prefer the immersive flavour perhaps enjoying the strong forces and drama that setting seems to portray but I much prefer the much more subtle and detailed presentation given by my settings.

Mahjik
24-02-2018, 16:40
So I was driving formula a, and with tone, my rear keeps sliding, cause I don't feel it at all. But with tone set off, I feel the front wheels so well, I emmediately feel the subtle changes of the weight of the front wheel as the rear is sliding, and am able to catch it and correct it, instantly and succesfully, and feel all the weight and traction return to the wheel.

What specific sensation are you expecting an/or getting? With Tone, it will increase the sensation of the wheel wanting to go opposite lock letting you know the rear is starting to come around. You can get that from the front as well, but it will be once the wheels actually start going opposite lock. So Tone gives you a little more of a "heads up". Basically what your butt would provide you from a car chassis.

It's also possible what you are getting from your T-GT is not what you should be getting:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?61250-Thrustmaster-T-GT-weak-FFB

Raklodder
24-02-2018, 17:00
Logitech G920/GTEYE & Driving Force Shifter
Jack Spade v2.02 Standard High Compression SopDiff
Gain: 100 Volume: 50 Tone: 50 FX: 50 (custom)

Lawndarts
24-02-2018, 18:02
We really should dispel this myth that FBB settings are based on preference beyond anything other than force strength. There is a good reason why a majority will claim product A has great FFB but product B has lousy FFB.

Sure, FFB can be tuned a lot, but in reality, FFB shouldnít be such a big topic beyond each wheel. FFB is meant to be intuitive. Anything not intuitive breaks down immersion at so many levels that players just give up and go back to the product that feels intuitive.

This is where having a baseline FFB setting sets the foundation of learning the differences between cars. And with FFB changing so much between cars, no one can even get past it enough to learn the differences in physics. FFB is one of those things where giving users too many options is bad. PC1 has this so bad that the product perception suffered a lot without a community persons custom files, files you only learned about if you were on forums. Pc2 did a great job reducing these but there is still too many presets. Itís like no one could make up their mind on what the baseline should be so they added them all with subjective names.

I donít mean to harp here but Iíve been following FFB threads since day one, and still I dread switching cars due to a lack of standards or baseline that we can all talk about more directly with out the shifting context. ďDonít use toneĒ oh ďIím using immersiveĒ ah ok, itís like a matrix of suggestions.

None of this would matter if the ďrawĒ setting was in fact a baseline but itís literally ďrawĒ in the most literal sense and for anyone that knows FFB raw signals with no tone are just a mess.

I donít mean to harp, but this lack of consistency and perpetual subjectivity is a major deterrent in whatís otherwise the most fully featured and beautiful sim on the market... but sadly, Iíve no time to fuss with it. And for what itís worth, I do race cars in real life and know exactly what FFB is suppose to compensate for and I have a wide margin of compromise, but thatís still not enough.

Forget trying to educate your audience on FFB, pick a standard baseline, and stand by it. This will at least make all the secondary settings enhancements more than necessarily and to make this easier? Implement Jack Spades files, not because they are the best, but more to the fact that itís clear he is one person trying to level all the cars consistency between each other and based on his results, that makes another fact glaringly clear but that fact isnít quite as constructive.