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View Full Version : Are you quite a bit slower since patch 4??



Atak Kat
24-02-2018, 14:42
I'm finding that I'm about 2 seconds per lap slower since patch 4. On tracks that have lap times around 2:00min (monza, nurburgring, etc). Spa I'm about 3 seconds per lap slower.

I'm mainly using the Porsche GT3 car for comparison. I haven't messed around with any setup adjustments before/after the patch.

I think there was something in the patch notes about changes to the suspension geometry for the Porsche. But I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing the same impact with this car? Any suggestions re setup adjustments to get the lap time back?

Thanks

rich1e I
24-02-2018, 14:54
I haven't driven the Porsche that much but after patch 1.4 you should be faster, especially on Spa and Nürburgring as the power loss of naturally aspirated engines on high altitude tracks has been adjusted and is less now.
I'm going to try the Porsche tonight to see if it feels so much different.

Icetiger_72
24-02-2018, 22:18
I'm finding that I'm about 2 seconds per lap slower since patch 4. On tracks that have lap times around 2:00min (monza, nurburgring, etc). Spa I'm about 3 seconds per lap slower.

But I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing the same impact with this car? Any suggestions re setup adjustments to get the lap time back?

Thanks

Actually no. With the patch 4 I'm now faster with the 911 GT3 R compared to patch 3. At least 1.5 sec at Hockenheim and at Red Bull Ring, more than 2 sec at the Nürburgring and more than 3 sec at Spa with my patch 3 setups (the values of my setups were automatically adjusted against the values of the patch 4 standard setup).

I'm using the stable setups to start with and normally change only the spring rates, anti-roll bars, tyre pressure and aero (up to now, I didn't dived deeper into car setups).

But what I saw in the standard stable setups patch 3 vs 4 is:
- spring rates now are two steps harder at the rear vs the front; in patch 3 (as I remember correctly) they were even
- the anti-roll bars are now harder at the front vs. the rear; in patch 3 I think they were even too

I tried the patch 4 standard stable setup once, but I found it is now quite lose vs. pushing with patch 3.

Hope this helps.

Atak Kat
24-02-2018, 22:40
Well ..... thanks... I guess....

I guess I have some practice ahead...

I did make some minor adjustments today and I think I'm getting the time back. But still not where it was.
More to go.

Thanks for the comments.

blinkngone
25-02-2018, 02:04
Well ..... thanks... I guess....

I guess I have some practice ahead...

I did make some minor adjustments today and I think I'm getting the time back. But still not where it was.
More to go.

Thanks for the comments.
Hi Atak Kat, I can only reference 3 tracks with the Porsche GT3, all ovals. Monza, Daytona and Texas and in every case I was slower initially with the 4.0 patch. But, after adjustments, I am now a little faster with the new patch, nothing like the previous poster with gaining multiple seconds but with patience I am faster. I was slower with every car I tested, not just the Porsche GT3 and with the exceptions of the cars that were nerfed(Group C for example) I have been able to improve. The NSX GT3 for some reason was especially difficult along with the BMW V12LMR. I needed to pay more attention at getting the tire pressures correct to get my time back and I hadn't seen anything in the Patch notes that would indicate a change to the hards, I know they changed the softs.
On PC TT we are seeing gains due to the altitude adjustments with GT3s so at RBR the Huracan(it also had a drag reduction) has improved from a Patch 3.0 1:29.940 to a Patch 4.0 1:28.856, a similar improvement at SPA. With the Porsche GT3 R we seeing a 0.019 second improvement at RBR(so far) and at SPA a 0.300 improvement with the 4.0 patch. So, in short, just keep at it and you will get back or exceed your previous PBs.

Atak Kat
25-02-2018, 12:23
Thank you blinkngone. Glad it's not just me who noticed.

This is the line I remembered from the patch notes:
Porsche 911 GT3 R - Revised suspension geometry and setup from new reference material. Re-calculated chassis moments of inertia.

After some more testing and tweaking, I have found most of the time back. In fact, I even had a couple laps where I was almost a full second faster than before!! I was really shocked, and consider it luck mostly, because I struggle to repeat it. I didn't take good notes about what I did in my setup, but there seemed to be a combination of things that was resulting in my rear tire pressures going too high, and overall I struggled with the rear of the car in the higher speed corners (not only because of the tire pressures). I made some little adjustments to spring rates, ARB, toe, and diff. Seems to be better now

blinkngone
25-02-2018, 13:11
Thank you blinkngone. Glad it's not just me who noticed.

This is the line I remembered from the patch notes:
Porsche 911 GT3 R - Revised suspension geometry and setup from new reference material. Re-calculated chassis moments of inertia.

After some more testing and tweaking, I have found most of the time back. In fact, I even had a couple laps where I was almost a full second faster than before!! I was really shocked, and consider it luck mostly, because I struggle to repeat it. I didn't take good notes about what I did in my setup, but there seemed to be a combination of things that was resulting in my rear tire pressures going too high, and overall I struggled with the rear of the car in the higher speed corners (not only because of the tire pressures). I made some little adjustments to spring rates, ARB, toe, and diff. Seems to be better now
Cool.:cool: I only have a limited view of the changes to the Porsche GT3 R because of the Oval constraints so glad you are able to work things out on your road course. What track(s) are you doing your testing on?

Fight-Test
25-02-2018, 13:50
I thought the Porsche got a 26 hp bump on top of suspension and fuel tank size changes. I think I remember doug or one if the devs mentioning that along with other hp changes to cars.

blinkngone
25-02-2018, 14:36
I thought the Porsche got a 26 hp bump on top of suspension and fuel tank size changes. I think I remember doug or one if the devs mentioning that along with other hp changes to cars.
Hi. The Porsche is still listed at 500 hp. I ran it at the Daytona Tri Oval and observed around 484 on the straights and around 505/510 in the banking. Maybe Doug was referring to the previous loss of hp at the altitude tracks like RBR was now compensated for and would amount to a 26 hp increase from before the altitude correction. I did observe the Nissan GT3 R Horsepower bump in the patch notes as well as the ATS.V but not so much the Bentley and 488 GT3. The Nissan and ATSV are now showing more Horsepower than listed in the vehicle description. So maybe 10 for the Porsche? I don't have a previous reference before patch 4.0.
Observed Tri Oval straight, backstretch.
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Pacific Highway Stage 3 same as tri Oval on straights and same 510 horsepower as soon as you can induce some slight turning.
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This increase in horsepower is common with a lot of the RWD cars as soon as the front wheels are turned a little. RPM drops a little closer to the torque peak.

Jussi Karjalainen
25-02-2018, 14:58
Pacific Highway Stage 3 same as tri Oval on straights and same 510 horsepower as soon as you can induce some slight turning.

This increase in horsepower is common with a lot of the RWD cars as soon as the front wheels are turned a little. RPM drops a little closer to the torque peak.It's not the turning, it's the RPM. The peak power on that car is at around 8500-8700 RPM, and once you go past it you start losing power (can happen even earlier at high altitudes since that adds "extra" restriction). It's quite common on these highly restricted GT3 engines to lose power if you take it all the way to the rev limit.

The Porsche in particular has quite peaky power, you get max power at a quite narrow band (510+ bhp between about 8300-8800 rpm or so). If you shift at around 9000 rpm you should have about the same power before and after the shift, i.e. ~9000 rpm is the optimal shift point in that car, but peak power is earlier than that.

blinkngone
25-02-2018, 15:14
It's not the turning, it's the RPM. The peak power on that car is at around 8500-8700 RPM, and once you go past it you start losing power (can happen even earlier at high altitudes since that adds "extra" restriction). It's quite common on these highly restricted GT3 engines to lose power if you take it all the way to the rev limit.

The Porsche in particular has quite peaky power, you get max power at a quite narrow band (510+ bhp between about 8300-8800 rpm or so). If you shift at around 9000 rpm you should have about the same power before and after the shift, i.e. ~9000 rpm is the optimal shift point in that car, but peak power is earlier than that.

Ok, so did the Porsche 911 GT3 R get a horsepower bump that wasn't in the Patch 4.0 notes? My right foot can't precisely control the rpm so I can better control the rpm by turning the wheel slightly.

Atak Kat
25-02-2018, 18:44
More comments after another day of racing.

I know it's typical, but usually Monza, Red Bull Ring, and Nurburgring are my favourite tracks for testing (either in TT, or just racing online and trying different things). I know those tracks reasonably well, so those are the three where I can tell if setup changes make a difference, or not. Also I'm pretty consistent with lap times, so these tracks are the ones I can usually tell if a setup change makes a lap time improvement, or not.

After another day with the Porsche, I would say:
- When everything goes right, its now possible for me to go faster. But I'm less consistent. Before Patch 4 I was able to get in the hight 1:49s around Monza. Now, I'm finding that I'm able to hit the low 1:49s, but that's more of a fluke and in reality most laps are in the low 1:50s. Yesterday I even did a 1:48.4 which I've never seen before. But I cannot put it together consistently.
- Already mentioned the rear end control, which is much better after some tweaks but it's still not quite as stable as I remember it before the patch. I've yet to find the setup where I feel comfortable and predictable to attack the corners. I find that I'm a bit nervous and don't have the confidence I had before.
- One thing I notice is that I've been locking up the brakes a lot more. Tires seem to be constantly screeching. And I really struggle a lot with the braking now. It's almost as if I'm constantly running on cold tires now. Even when up to temp, pressures OK, I find that I don't have the same ability to brake like I did before. Before the patch I was running the brake balance at 57:43, and now I've found that I have to bring it back to 54:46 (or even 53, or 52...).

Anyway, I'm mostly commenting this because it's not a power difference I notice. It's really a major handling difference.

blinkngone
25-02-2018, 19:26
More comments after another day of racing.

I know it's typical, but usually Monza, Red Bull Ring, and Nurburgring are my favourite tracks for testing (either in TT, or just racing online and trying different things). I know those tracks reasonably well, so those are the three where I can tell if setup changes make a difference, or not. Also I'm pretty consistent with lap times, so these tracks are the ones I can usually tell if a setup change makes a lap time improvement, or not.

After another day with the Porsche, I would say:
- When everything goes right, its now possible for me to go faster. But I'm less consistent. Before Patch 4 I was able to get in the hight 1:49s around Monza. Now, I'm finding that I'm able to hit the low 1:49s, but that's more of a fluke and in reality most laps are in the low 1:50s. Yesterday I even did a 1:48.4 which I've never seen before. But I cannot put it together consistently.
- Already mentioned the rear end control, which is much better after some tweaks but it's still not quite as stable as I remember it before the patch. I've yet to find the setup where I feel comfortable and predictable to attack the corners. I find that I'm a bit nervous and don't have the confidence I had before.
- One thing I notice is that I've been locking up the brakes a lot more. Tires seem to be constantly screeching. And I really struggle a lot with the braking now. It's almost as if I'm constantly running on cold tires now. Even when up to temp, pressures OK, I find that I don't have the same ability to brake like I did before. Before the patch I was running the brake balance at 57:43, and now I've found that I have to bring it back to 54:46 (or even 53, or 52...).

Anyway, I'm mostly commenting this because it's not a power difference I notice. It's really a major handling difference.

Hi, Atak Kat, there is a dearth of runs with the 911 GT3 R in TT since the patch 4.0. However, Jack Scagnetti was able to put together a 1:45.986 run at Monza with the new patch. Take a look at his setup and see if there is anything that might help your consistency. Funny how you and Jack had both ended up with the same brake balance(54/46). He has really lowered the rear camber from default so maybe that is one of the keys because of the revised suspension, you need to free up the rear end to allow it to slide a little more than before. Or he is just really comfortable sliding. Of course, Hard tires are a must and you have to put in your own tire pressures because these are often off, don't know why, setup glitches are common with the tire pressures for me with GT3 cars.
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Atak Kat
25-02-2018, 19:33
Thanks a lot. Will work through it and see if I can find a silver bullet somewhere.
The brake balance is really interesting to me.....