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Roland2
26-02-2018, 23:44
I find it impossible to play this game using street cars that are RWD Cars.
Tested using the Camaro LT1, Ford Mustang , Z06 Corvette etc. They drive like FWD Cars.
I noticed this when unwinding the wheel after corner apex and applying throttle. It doesn't matter on the amount or rate of throttle. Happens using constant throttle also.
Not sure how to describe this but I will try.

(assume right hand turn) Select one of the street cars , I am testing using the "nurburgring GP" course. As you hit the apex start to unwind the wheel and apply very slow throttle the car continues to turn right as if you provided no steering change. This seems to be what a FWD car might do pulling the car into the direction of the steering under heavy throttle.

the front wheel track radius is not increasing as the steering input would suggest.

If the car is oversteering the result under acceleration should be front track radius should remain similar while the rear wheel track radius should increase. (oversteering while accelerating)

The only time the front wheel track should decrease in radius would be off throttle induced over steer. So the game seems to think I am off throttle and not unwinding the steering or behaves like a FWD car on throttle. (rally dirt cars behavior)

morpwr
26-02-2018, 23:51
I find it impossible to play this game using street cars that are RWD Cars.
Tested using the Camaro LT1, Ford Mustang , Z06 Corvette etc. They drive like FWD Cars.
I noticed this when unwinding the wheel after corner apex and applying throttle. It doesn't matter on the amount or rate of throttle. Happens using constant throttle also.
Not sure how to describe this but I will try.

(assume right hand turn) Select one of the street cars , I am testing using the "nurburgring GP" course. As you hit the apex start to unwind the wheel and apply very slow throttle the car continues to turn right as if you provided no steering change. This seems to be what a FWD car might do pulling the car into the direction of the steering under heavy throttle.

the front wheel track radius is not increasing as the steering input would suggest.

If the car is oversteering the result under acceleration should be front track radius should remain similar while the rear wheel track radius should increase. (oversteering while accelerating)

The only time the front wheel track should decrease in radius would be off throttle induced over steer. So the game seems to think I am off throttle and not unwinding the steering or behaves like a FWD car on throttle. (rally dirt cars behavior)

Just drove the Camaro and the Vette quite a bit this weekend and they definitely didn't do that.

Roland2
27-02-2018, 00:03
Just drove the Camaro and the Vette quite a bit this weekend and they definitely didn't do that.

Watch this video. At about the 25 sec mark is similar to what I am experiencing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNugeqOuXKk


Try running the "nurburgring GP" course using the Z06 Corvette. Tell me if you can keep the car on the path towards the corner exit or if the car turns into the middle of the track. I am using time trial sessions.

based on the above video I found, I am going to test "testing mode" vs "time trial"

Also tested using a C7R Corvette GT3 car. Using recommended tire based on conditions vs soft slicks. I get similar results. Seems like something of the bug that is still in the physics of the game. The video is showing the difference between practice and actual race which seems like a real bug.

Charger
27-02-2018, 00:22
2 things I noticed, in that race ABS is on and tyre pressures were 34psi, in practice no ABS and tyre pressures were sub 30 psi, that makes a difference, not a good comparison, also that video is 4 months ago!

Roland2
27-02-2018, 00:57
2 things I noticed, in that race ABS is on and tyre pressures were 34psi, in practice no ABS and tyre pressures were sub 30 psi, that makes a difference, not a good comparison, also that video is 4 months ago!

What does your game behave like doing this.

Select Street Z06 Corvette.
Get the car to any straight on a track.
Place the car in Second Gear.
Have all traction control settings on.
Then quickly increase throttle input (without flooring it)

Does your car drive straight or like mine it steers to the right ? (nothing like the real Z06)

I tried with the Camaro , Corvette and Mustang and my game the cars turn to the right (steering wheel is straight).

Behaves like oversteer with a straight wheel input. With traction control on the wheels never spin, but yet the car turns right ?????

Charger
27-02-2018, 03:49
There was no traction involved in that video, I suggest you post your own video.

morpwr
27-02-2018, 10:40
Do those cars have sc? I don't use it ever so I don't know. If they do turn it off and see how they drive. SC does weird things when it kicks in.

CastrolGT
27-02-2018, 10:51
isn't the stability control enabled? it can be that

Zaskarspants
27-02-2018, 10:58
Last time this came up I posted some videos of corvettes attempting to accelerate in a straight line with varying degress of success.
Try ' supercar fail ' on yt and you will see what I mean.

The high powered corvettes and similar are amongst the most challenging cars to drive well in irl and in the game.

You need to treat the throttle with great respect, ' flooring it' is likely to cause a prang irl and in the game.

Roland2
27-02-2018, 14:29
Do those cars have sc? I don't use it ever so I don't know. If they do turn it off and see how they drive. SC does weird things when it kicks in.

I tested using the "authentic setting" so the car has TC and AH(Active handling)(SC). See post # 5 and test. See if you get the same results as I do.

When using "authentic setting" the car should drive straight as a arrow. TC & SC on.

Roland2
27-02-2018, 14:37
Last time this came up I posted some videos of corvettes attempting to accelerate in a straight line with varying degress of success.
Try ' supercar fail ' on yt and you will see what I mean.

The high powered corvettes and similar are amongst the most challenging cars to drive well in irl and in the game.

You need to treat the throttle with great respect, ' flooring it' is likely to cause a prang irl and in the game.

Seen many "supercar fail" , but to get that to happen you need to turn off TC AH SC. In the game with "authentic settings" TC AH SC on this should not happen.

Also you haven never driven a C7 Z06 Corvette, if you had you wouldn't make the same claims.

I understand the issue with "flooring it", but you don't need to floor it to see the effect. Even with a constant throttle the car over steers

What do you get using post#5 ?

I drive a C7 Z06 Corvette irl at the track and this game is a very poor representation of the real car. As are most of the street cars (RWD) in this game.

Street cars by design from the factory understeer to keep the drivers safe.

Zaskarspants
27-02-2018, 14:57
Well, we did all this a few months back.
Suffice to say I don't recognize the description of the corvette in the game posted above. BUT I only use my corvette for shopping as it has a bigger boot than my other car. Honest.

Mad Al
27-02-2018, 15:14
Seen many "supercar fail" , but to get that to happen you need to turn off TC AH SC. In the game with "authentic settings" TC AH SC on this should not happen.

Also you haven never driven a C7 Z06 Corvette, if you had you wouldn't make the same claims.

I understand the issue with "flooring it", but you don't need to floor it to see the effect. Even with a constant throttle the car over steers

What do you get using post#5 ?

I drive a C7 Z06 Corvette irl at the track and this game is a very poor representation of the real car. As are most of the street cars (RWD) in this game.

Street cars by design from the factory understeer to keep the drivers safe.

So your real car understeers.. have you tried the stable and OEM setups ?

Mahjik
27-02-2018, 15:49
Personally, I find the in-game Z06 too tame (and mentioned it during development). Even Randy Pobst commented that the C7 Z06 rear always wanted to come around, and he was constantly correcting it. There was also the other Youtube channel (DRIVE, I think) that mentioned the same thing when comparing it to the Viper ACR.

My experience in various C7 Z06's, which stock tires, is that you have two options:


Keep the nannies on, but they kick in every mid and corner exit.
Turn the nannies off, but you cannot use full throttle until you are almost pointed completely straight


Now, I've been tracking for many, many years and I currently compete (time trials and W2W) so how hard I drive is likely a lot harder than others. However, I find the tires we have for the PC2 version to be better than the stock C7 Z06 tires and provide more stability than what the car has off the showroom floor. I don't think the PC2 tires are light years better, but just enough that it makes the PC2 version not require the nannies as much as the real deal.

Roland2
28-02-2018, 01:30
Personally, I find the in-game Z06 too tame (and mentioned it during development). Even Randy Pobst commented that the C7 Z06 rear always wanted to come around, and he was constantly correcting it. There was also the other Youtube channel (DRIVE, I think) that mentioned the same thing when comparing it to the Viper ACR.

My trouble in the game is how they represent over steer.

2 situations.

1. Constant throttle or adding throttle as you exit over steer feels like off throttle over steer. Where over steer is caused by more grip on the front vs the back when weight is transferred to the front of the car. When you apply throttle on corner exit the weight shifts to the rear of the car and should produce understeer. If you apply to much throttle the back end should swing out in a increasing turn radius while the front wheels should remain on the same radius.
I believe the game uses the same effect regardless on what caused the over steer.

2. Flooring the throttle in the game doesn't always produce the same effect it depends on the radius of the turn.

The Z06 and most of Cars in the game, the front end follows a decreasing radius while the rear follows the same radius. For me this usually happens with off throttle over steer.

The in game video I reference shows what I am speaking about. At the 25sec mark the car pulls hard to the right while on throttle at corner exit (off throttle understeer response). While the video is about why the game plays different in race vs practice, this is a different issue, which I believe may be fixed in V4 patch, but it now happens in race and in practice.

So my use of the video shows how the game represent over steer on corner exit while on throttle which for me seems wrong. I am using my real life skid marks as a reference when I have spun out in similar situations.

Mahjik
28-02-2018, 01:38
You are forgetting several things, like road & dynamic camber which can all play a role into how a given vehicle will react. In short, there is more to how a car will behave than just throttle application. I have no doubt that you have some track experience, but there are more variables to consider.

Also keep in mind that the default tires which the car uses in PC2, is something more performance oriented than what the real Z06 comes with OEM so the behavior will be different. They aren't slicks, but they also aren't your standard summer tires.

Roland2
28-02-2018, 03:21
You are forgetting several things, like road & dynamic camber which can all play a role into how a given vehicle will react. In short, there is more to how a car will behave than just throttle application. I have no doubt that you have some track experience, but there are more variables to consider.

Also keep in mind that the default tires which the car uses in PC2, is something more performance oriented than what the real Z06 comes with OEM so the behavior will be different. They aren't slicks, but they also aren't your standard summer tires.

road & dynamic camber all play a role, but the game represents street car with a very similar brush.

The best way to see how far off the game is to compare skid patterns.

Testing for over steer. Same corner Same road conditions etc.

1. braking induced over steer.
2. off throttle over steer.
3. too much throttle over steer.
4. steering induced over steer.

All will produce a different skid patterns. Compare this to real world with the same car then you will start to see where the game is off.

If we knew what was used as a reference for the game model , then we may understand why it works as it does.