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View Full Version : Please change class of the 908/3 to VPB



dodge33cymru
08-03-2018, 01:16
Hello, first of let me say how much I'm enjoying the pack. I have a few minor negatives and it further emphasises flaws with the game (grid selector!) but I am loving the classics in the pack; I even just watched the AI race around Rouen for a while to marvel at the 917's visuals and sound (and because I'd slammed into a wall two laps before).

But one thing I'm hoping can be updated, if others agree with me, is the class for the 908/3, from VPB to VPA.

Hear me out.

The VPB class has three cars from the mid-late 60s which are relatively well matched and could conceivably have raced together on track. Those three make an excellent class of their own. Adding the wide-bodied 908 to the field ruins it somewhat for me, as the aesthetic doesn't fit and its performance blows the other three out of the water. If it was the original 908, sure, it would fit perfectly (Le Mans Legend...?), but this version raced in the same years and championships as the 917 (being Porsche's preferred option for twisty tracks).

TL:DR - please keep the 60s cars in VPB and put the 70s cars together in VPA.

Does anyone agree/disagree? I would be curious to hear other opinions.

Anyway SMS, keep up the good work and I can't wait for the next pack after this one (although plenty of driving to do in the meantime!), but please consider this option if possible. Thanks.



(edit: sorry, I should have called the thread "please consider changing...")

Tar Heel
08-03-2018, 02:18
I just want a custom grid selector in game that doesn't choose by class, but allows me to choose by car and livery. That would solve so many issues and really give us the power to create some awesome life like grids.

The custom grid tool does this, but it currently isn't working for me, and without it I really struggle to enjoy custom races where I am tethered to what the game chooses for me.

Cheesenium
08-03-2018, 03:08
Still prefer Vintage Prototype B because I do not want Vintage Prototype A to be filled with Porsches. I rather have some diversity in classes with cars from different manufacturers than being overly concern about balance.

APR193
08-03-2018, 07:12
VPB is better for it in my opinion. There's a bigger performance gap between the Ford in VPB and the Lotus than there is between the 908 and the Ford/Ferrari. And the 908 is closer to the VPB cars than it is the 917. I don't think it would stand a chance against the 917 on almost any track.

Barmydoughnut24
08-03-2018, 09:43
Isnt he 908 the can-am Porsche, and the 917/10 in VPB. Or am i getting confused.

Ignore me, i am mistaken. For some reason i thougt it was the other way round. However, it wouldnt bother me if it was in its own class rather than with the 917k, as i think that would work less well.

balderz002
08-03-2018, 10:19
I think I agree with the OP here. Ive not driven all the discussed new cars very much due to lack of time with them. But in principle I agree.

Surely the best way to compare the 908/03 and the 917K would be to put their lap times head to head at various tracks? Get a nice selection of faster ones, twisty ones and ones that are somewhere in the middle, and see just how big the gap is between the two.......... Then do the same with the VPB cars and we might have an answer when it comes to performance differences at least.............

Tank621
08-03-2018, 10:27
Personally I would prefer the 917K and 908/03 to be together simply out of historical accuracy, it sticks out like a sore thumb in the VPTB class

David Wright
08-03-2018, 11:59
Brian Redman might agree with the proposal :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsf8S3qgwX8

dodge33cymru
08-03-2018, 12:09
Still prefer Vintage Prototype B because I do not want Vintage Prototype A to be filled with Porsches. I rather have some diversity in classes with cars from different manufacturers than being overly concern about balance.

But it is filled with Porsches? And of only one type at the moment (presumably the four or five liveries the Langheck ran with will be added in the Le Mans pack). Unless a 512S is coming (and it doesn't appear to be), that's another reason for the split to me, breaking up the 917 monotony in VPB.

dodge33cymru
08-03-2018, 12:12
VPB is better for it in my opinion. There's a bigger performance gap between the Ford in VPB and the Lotus than there is between the 908 and the Ford/Ferrari. And the 908 is closer to the VPB cars than it is the 917. I don't think it would stand a chance against the 917 on almost any track.

The reason for the 908/3's existence is because it was quicker for twisty tracks than the 917 (hence so many shared liveries between the two); in theory, it should be quicker at the Nurburgring. The original 908 would have been perfect for VPB, but this version's raison d'etre was to be quicker than the 917 on certain circuits.

balderz002
08-03-2018, 13:15
The reason for the 908/3's existence is because it was quicker for twisty tracks than the 917 (hence so many shared liveries between the two); in theory, it should be quicker at the Nurburgring. The original 908 would have been perfect for VPB, but this version's raison d'etre was to be quicker than the 917 on certain circuits.


Do I remember wrong, or does the 908/03 top out at about 150 odd mph? If I am correct, then the 908/03 might even struggle at the same circuits with the 60's prototypes as it would struggle on with the 917?

rich1e I
08-03-2018, 13:30
For historical accuracy the 908/3 indeed belongs in the same group as the 917k but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because these classes are not going to be raced much online so there won't be any unfair advantage due to some cars having more power or better handling than others. People like driving what they're comfortable with. Driving classic cars needs even more adaptation. Spec races could be fun though.

Lawndarts
08-03-2018, 15:42
Steve McQueens 908 that he took to a second place finish at Sebring 12 hour was used in the 1970 Lemans race. It was the camera car for the filming of the movie Lemans. Fun facts!

rosko
08-03-2018, 15:51
I just want a custom grid selector in game that doesn't choose by class, but allows me to choose by car and livery. That would solve so many issues and really give us the power to create some awesome life like grids.

The custom grid tool does this, but it currently isn't working for me, and without it I really struggle to enjoy custom races where I am tethered to what the game chooses for me.

this.

dodge33cymru
08-03-2018, 16:44
For historical accuracy the 908/3 indeed belongs in the same group as the 917k but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because these classes are not going to be raced much online so there won't be any unfair advantage due to some cars having more power or better handling than others. People like driving what they're comfortable with. Driving classic cars needs even more adaptation. Spec races could be fun though.

Point taken about online, but I've been very much enjoying the 60s vibe of the GT40 v P4 battles of (what is now) the VPB class, the immersion of which is now somewhat spoiled by the addition of the great new car. Personal opinion, I know, but it's disappointing to me.


A car/livery selector like AC (or better) would be very nice indeed, but I don't hold out any hope of seeing it.

dodge33cymru
08-03-2018, 16:47
Steve McQueens 908 that he took to a second place finish at Sebring 12 hour was used in the 1970 Lemans race. It was the camera car for the filming of the movie Lemans. Fun facts!

Aye, it's a very modified 908/2. Onboard cameras have come on a long way since! The 908 chassis has quite an interesting history; the long-tail late 60s version is my personal favourite aesthetically, but the way their use was adapted for Nurburgring and Targa Florio events is fascinating IMO.

breyzipp
09-03-2018, 06:41
Maybe its a bit too early yet for this question. I bet the remaining Le Mans car pack and Ferrari car pack will add cars to both classes, only then will we have a more clear view on all those cars.

Barmydoughnut24
09-03-2018, 11:08
Maybe its a bit too early yet for this question. I bet the remaining Le Mans car pack and Ferrari car pack will add cars to both classes, only then will we have a more clear view on all those cars.

I have to agree, sms most likely already know and have already started working on the last dlc cars. In the long term, the complete classes and game as a whole will be around for a long time. A few less populated classes as we have them currently will only be a slight inconvenience for a few months, and as it currently stands, this game has gone from great to outstanding since patch 4 and the porsche dlc.

Demon340
09-03-2018, 11:35
Is it common for game manufacturers to continue to offer DLC’s? That is, do you think another season pass will be offered after this one is complete?

Tar Heel
10-03-2018, 03:40
For historical accuracy the 908/3 indeed belongs in the same group as the 917k but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because these classes are not going to be raced much online so there won't be any unfair advantage due to some cars having more power or better handling than others. People like driving what they're comfortable with. Driving classic cars needs even more adaptation. Spec races could be fun though.

There is more to the game than just online racing. This also affects the offline racers as well.

Cheesenium
10-03-2018, 04:10
But it is filled with Porsches? And of only one type at the moment (presumably the four or five liveries the Langheck ran with will be added in the Le Mans pack). Unless a 512S is coming (and it doesn't appear to be), that's another reason for the split to me, breaking up the 917 monotony in VPB.

I still rather have a 4 car models class in vintage prototype B over moving it to AI. It would look even out of place there. It seemed like there is a Ferrari DLC after Le Mans pack so I won't be surprised that 512 would be in the game.

908 looks even weird with 917K and I have no issues with it being in vintage prototype B. Not every class in the game has to be balance. I am so sick of all these balance whining that kept ruining cars in the game.

Tar Heel
10-03-2018, 04:20
I still rather have a 4 car models class in vintage prototype B over moving it to AI. It would look even out of place there. It seemed like there is a Ferrari DLC after Le Mans pack so I won't be surprised that 512 would be in the game.

908 looks even weird with 917K and I have no issues with it being in vintage prototype B. Not every class in the game has to be balance. I am so sick of all these balance whining that kept ruining cars in the game.

Historically Prototype A makes more sense. The 908/03 raced at the same time as the 917. It would compete better with that car than the current prototype B cars.

Ofnir4
10-03-2018, 05:03
I am so sick of all these balance whining that kept ruining cars in the game.

How is moving a car from one class to another ruining it ? If anything, moving it is saving the car. If the 908 stays in VPB, the class will either remain unbalanced and therefore useless (or unused if you prefer) or it gets a gentle dose of "neutered into the Fcking ground" to compete against the rest of the class.

In VPA, it will have worthy competition, making it way more enjoyable.

Let's say we had a few GTP ( randomly chosen, toyota Eagle MKIII, and Jaguar XJR-16) in their own class, but the nissan GTP-ZX was in the group C class. Would you rather see it destroy the competition in C, get castrated to compete in C or moved to GTP and keep its balls ?

These are the choices here, losing a car, losing a class or keeping a class balanced as well as giving another class competition. (Mopping the floor with a P330/P4 is not competition)

dodge33cymru
10-03-2018, 08:59
I still rather have a 4 car models class in vintage prototype B over moving it to AI. It would look even out of place there. It seemed like there is a Ferrari DLC after Le Mans pack so I won't be surprised that 512 would be in the game.

908 looks even weird with 917K and I have no issues with it being in vintage prototype B. Not every class in the game has to be balance. I am so sick of all these balance whining that kept ruining cars in the game.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7c/e5/68/7ce5687947e390ad7d3b68495db540ee--cars-usa-super-cars.jpg
*historic racing photo

I don't think it looks out of place v a 917 personally. An original 908 would have fit the 60s class better but the /2 and /3 were very much contemporaries of the 917.

Hope you're right about the 512, but with 9 Ferrari models already known, I don't hold out much hope at the moment.

Tank621
10-03-2018, 09:39
Hope you're right about the 512, but with 9 Ferrari models already known, I don't hold out much hope at the moment.

Well there was Casey's litte hint in the physics of the Porsche Pack piece:
Multi-class at Le Mans with this will be great fun; 911 giving all it's got for 250km/h on the Mulsanne while the 917 and 512M blast by doing closer to 390km/h!

So that does suggest the 512M might be coming

Hugo Catarino
25-04-2018, 14:06
Hello comunity!

Classifying cars is not the black-and-white issue it seems to be,specially given that the classes in game are very reduced and they mimic the real categories of real racing world.Since we are adressing an issue related to cars from mid 60’s/early 70’s,i can tell you that at some point, the Ford GT40 MKI and the Porsche 917/Ferrari 512s shared the same category, the 5.0 class. Crazy right,considering the huge differences between these cars?

But,in game,it doesn’t have to be like this,specially when we have only a couple of classes to mimic multiple ones.Did you know that the fierce 1967 rivals,Ford GT40 MKIV and Ferrari 330 P4, were not in the same class in real life?Yup,the GT40 was in the +5.0 class,and the Ferrari was only in the 5.0.No plus sign for them,the Fords earned the right of having their own category it seems!But it would be crazy to separate them in PCars 2,right?Each with their strenghts and weaknesses,but they are fairly evenly matched both in real life and in the game, if you consider a championship with multiple races. The fact that they were in different classes in real life doesnt mean they need to be differently categorized in the game,since their performance is somewhat equal and they raced together with the same goals.I think so far we can all agree on this logic,right?

But the Porsche 908/3 ruins all of this.

A 1970 car (at that time the 330 P4 and the GT40 MKIV were retired long ago,so they didnt co-habitated the track with the Porsche,and this is really important!) that was made specifically to win Targa Florio and Nordschleife,this car could go head-to-head with the beasts Porsche 917 and Ferrari 512.The 908/3 beatead these cars easily on those races,something that the GT40’s and the 330’s could not even dared to dream. Sure it would loose on high speed tracks like Monza or Le Mans, but if it reached to a point of actually winning races against those cars,they should be placed in the same category on a game,right?

Well,apparently no.The Porsche 908/3 ruinned the Vintage Prototype B class and those wonderfull Ford-Ferrari duels because those cars can’t simply keep up with the Porsche. I can’t imagine any possible argument in favour of the Porsche being in the VPB because:
- It’s not a car from the same period. Sure,only 3 years appart from the other vehicles,but if you know anything about racing history, you’d know they are from very different eras.2017 F1 cars are only 1 year older than 2016 cars,and you wouldn’t say they are equal and evenly matched,right?
- The differences in performances are simply to high,specially in twisty tracks like Nordschleife,Bannochbrae,Laguna Seca,Sonoma,etc etc.
- Putting this car in same category as the Ford/Ferrari ruins one of the most wonderfull pieces of motorsport history that this game managed to brought to us.No more Stallion and Snake duels to victory,unless by some change there is no Porsche on the field. With the classic Le Mans track coming to the game,it’s a shame that the epic 1967 duel can’t be fully recreated because of a misplaced vehicle that can go twice as fast as the others in a turn. Really a shame.

What should be done then?The obvious thing that i always took from granted as soon i learned that the Porsche 908 and the 917 would make it to Pcars2 and apparently was not that obvious– they should be put at the same category,in this case the V.Prototype A. They raced at the same time,on the same races – Targa Florio and Nurburgring in the 1970 and 1971 seasons of the World Sportscar Championship,and even though they have huge differences,their performances are much more alike than are the Ferraris and Fords with the 908!

The thread is long by now and i think you guys got the idea.I hope this opens discussion and with luck,dev’s will reconsider their decision and do the right thing – move this car to the vintage Prototype A,where it truly belongs.

Tank621
25-04-2018, 14:43
Yes I too would prefer it to be in the Vintage Prototype A class simply because of the historical accuracy of having it with the other 1970s car(s)

We did have a poll around the time the Porsche Pack released which was 2/3 in favour of moving it into the vintage prototype A class

APR193
25-04-2018, 14:53
Its an awkward one. In almost all scenarios its too fast for VPB, except for tracks which require a lot of straight line speed, and in virtually every case its not quite fast enough for VPA, with the 917 powering away on even the smallest of straights. Ideally it would fit in a new class between A and what would become VPC (Ford, Ferrari and Lotus), but there needs to be more cars added for it to race against for that to happen.

Hugo Catarino
25-04-2018, 15:01
damn,i missed that poll,is it still open?

Hugo Catarino
25-04-2018, 15:04
yes but the differences between the porsche and the ferrari/ford are greater than the differences between the 917k and the 908/3.Even if we discard the performance reasons,we should consider the historic side:the 917k and 908 raced together,unlike what happened with the gt40/330 p4.

A possible solution could be creating a different class just for the 908/3,but in reallity i still think it should be on VPA.

APR193
25-04-2018, 15:09
I'm not disagreeing, I don't mind what class it is in as either way its stuck in the middle in a race of its own. SMS have planned for VPA though judging by the cars we are expecting to get, so I don't think its going to be moved, at least not for Pcars2

ashylolz
25-04-2018, 15:34
If there were to be a VPC, the only car I can think of to go into VPB off the top of my head would be the Alfa Romeo T33/3.

Tar Heel
25-04-2018, 16:37
Its an awkward one. In almost all scenarios its too fast for VPB, except for tracks which require a lot of straight line speed, and in virtually every case its not quite fast enough for VPA, with the 917 powering away on even the smallest of straights. Ideally it would fit in a new class between A and what would become VPC (Ford, Ferrari and Lotus), but there needs to be more cars added for it to race against for that to happen.

The 908/3 was used on tracks that had more tight turns as it was more agile than the 917. They raced at the same time, teams would use one or the other based on the track. It belongs in A. It wasn't designed to compete against the 917 but takes its place on tracks that favored agile smaller wheel based cars.

Tar Heel
25-04-2018, 16:56
If anyone wants a little history lesson I highly recommend this documentary on 1970s sports car racing. Around the 12 minute mark there is some history on the 908, but the whole things is super interesting and can give you background on a multitude of cars in PC2.

https://youtu.be/tw1F-3U4GJQ

dodge33cymru
25-04-2018, 18:59
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?61727-Please-change-class-of-the-908-3-to-VPB

;)

I agree OP

Schnizz58
25-04-2018, 19:29
If anyone wants a little history lesson I highly recommend this documentary on 1970s sports car racing. Around the 12 minute mark there is some history on the 908, but the whole things is super interesting and can give you background on a multitude of cars in PC2.

https://youtu.be/tw1F-3U4GJQ

I sense a rabbit hole on the other side of that link. I want to click but I'll have to wait until I have sufficient time to waste.

Tank621
25-04-2018, 20:04
I sense a rabbit hole on the other side of that link. I want to click but I'll have to wait until I have sufficient time to waste.

Yes especially if you start looking at the related videos as well

Schnizz58
25-04-2018, 21:57
Yes especially if you start looking at the related videos as well

I can't not do that.

Tank621
25-04-2018, 22:00
I can't not do that.

Fortunately I've already watched most of them

Tar Heel
25-04-2018, 23:01
I sense a rabbit hole on the other side of that link. I want to click but I'll have to wait until I have sufficient time to waste.

Lol it is about 50 mins, but yeah the rabbit hole is pretty easy to fall into :)

Jezza819
26-04-2018, 14:36
Lol it is about 50 mins, but yeah the rabbit hole is pretty easy to fall into :)

:) I'll catch myself at 1:30am thinking "why am I still up this late? These will still be here tomorrow".

Schnizz58
26-04-2018, 14:43
:) I'll catch myself at 1:30am thinking "why am I still up this late? These will still be here tomorrow".

Followed by "OK, just one more."

balderz002
27-04-2018, 09:13
I do, for one, hope it gets moved.

Also maybe the mods could merge this thread with the other new one that's popped up over the last couple of days?

Flat-6
28-04-2018, 03:33
Should probably create a Vintage Prototype C class for the 908/3. It doesn't really belong to either class A or B considering what cars are already in. Hopefully there is another car coming to PC2 that is in the same era and is on a similar competitive level. :)

Tar Heel
29-04-2018, 16:24
Should probably create a Vintage Prototype C class for the 908/3. It doesn't really belong to either class A or B considering what cars are already in. Hopefully there is another car coming to PC2 that is in the same era and is on a similar competitive level. :)

That doesn't make any sense. If that happened the C class would be faster than the B class in almost all tracks minus a few exceptions.

A is the class that makes sense from a historical perspective. It just needs to more cars added to it, hopefully the Le Mans and Ferrari DLCs bring more cars to the class.

Flat-6
29-04-2018, 19:18
That doesn't make any sense. If that happened the C class would be faster than the B class in almost all tracks minus a few exceptions.

A is the class that makes sense from a historical perspective. It just needs to more cars added to it, hopefully the Le Mans and Ferrari DLCs bring more cars to the class.

Well, I left that part out purposefully because I am too lazy to type a long post. So yes the 908/3 would have to be put into a new Prototype Vintage B class and move the existing B class over to C class.

Tar Heel
29-04-2018, 22:13
Well, I left that part out purposefully because I am too lazy to type a long post. So yes the 908/3 would have to be put into a new Prototype Vintage B class and move the existing B class over to C class.

I just don't see that being a viable solution. The two car classes are small enough. Adding a third one to split them up just creates more one make classes. The fact is the 908/3 and the 917 raced during the same time period and each one can one up the other depending on the track layout. For the most part the car classes are separated based on historical time periods. It only makes sense and it seems the majority of the people who are voting agree with me to have the two Porches in Prototype A, with hopefully more cars joining them in future DLCs.

Maurofb
04-05-2018, 09:44
For now just changing it to Vintage Prototype A should be enough, since they raced together, and, as said, it could compete with the 917 in certain tracks, even ifthey were different classes.
I agree that maybe a third class would be stretching them a bit too thin. That would change, however, if the last Ferrari of the DLC happened to be a 312PB...