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PhishHead
26-03-2018, 15:09
Hello everyone,
I wanted to ask the forum for some help/tips in making the transition from using this aid to NOT using this aid. I am really struggling to make progress, and wanted to ask those who are successful driving without SC enabled how they came about doing it. I've searched the forum, and not really seeing any thing in this regard, mostly how to turn it off/on, why is it even in the game, definition of "Authentic" etc, and figured I would ask as I can't imagine I'm the only one who is struggling.

It has been explained to me by a very kind and fast driver, that no SC allows for sliding through corners which improves acceleration upon exit thus increasing lap times. Which sounds wonderful, except when that slide takes you through the corner and into a barrier :( I am finding lift off oversteer to be a plague. I have been able to match some of my WITH SC enabled lap times on some tracks, but can't seem to reap the benefit of learning to drive without this aid

I use a T300RS and have their Pro pedal set, I recently obtained both and am trying to learn how to live without SC now that I have good beginning set up at home. I typically drive the GT3/GT4/GTE class of cars. Thanks!

Drew

Tank621
26-03-2018, 15:33
Authentic is based on the Driver AIDs the real life cars use, for example most GT3 feature TC and ABS where as older cars like Group 5 have none
It can be turned on and off Via the Gameplay settings menu, by turning 'Driver Assists' to full you gain the ability to toggle the individual driver aids on or off, or via the Car Management Tab in the ICM

When practising any new thing in the game the trick is to start slow and build your way up to speed, I personally suggest a lower tier road car or Ginettas so you can get used to the characteristics of no SC and then pushing a car without having to focus on driving at very high speed, that way you can focus on technique, you should take care to moderate your throttle, brake and steering inputs as it is at the point of turning, acceleration and braking where the car becomes unstable. Only when you feel you are comfortable with the slower cars should you move to something faster. Whilst GTs are relatively easy to drive compared with many other cars in the game they are still full on race cars and trying to learn to drive with them makes the task more difficult than it needs to be

You must learn to walk before you try to run

Ofnir4
26-03-2018, 15:51
The cars you mention all have some form of SC in real life, so why drive without it ? They are designed with these aids, they work best with them on.

Activating aids that the car doesn't have sometime can have adverse effects on the handling of the car, for example if you throw a LMP1 in one of the kink at le Mans, without SC it just sticks but with SC it catches the car from spinning even though it would have never spun without the aid, causing you to lose all momentum. And that is with a balanced (downforce) setup.

For me, driving without SC is all about weight transfer and rotation of the car, that is where I used to struggle without SC, throwing the car into the corner with either too much speed or coming off the brakes too fast. Then having differential setting that made the effect worse.

Take a slow car or a car you can drive with your eyes closed and watch where SC activates around the track, remember what kind of input you had steering wise and with the pedals when it flashed.
Drive it again with no SC and see what kind of reaction the car has without the aid.

It spun coming in the corner ? brake earlier or come off the brakes more smoothly. Or diff setting.
Spun coming out ? Diff settings or less throttle/steering input.
Spin at high speed ? Suspension or Downforce.

If you drive the car below it's natural limits, SC should never deploy. On the edge it should deploy is specific situations.

After that, when you don't overdrive the car, you can use the engineer to tune the car for specific quirk you want gone or amplified.


That's my take on it anyway.

Keena
26-03-2018, 16:38
Ironically i started on ginetta juniors and rookie and find SC very strange feeling. It just goes to show theres no magic bullet or right and wrong way.

DECATUR PLAYA
26-03-2018, 16:53
Hello everyone,
I wanted to ask the forum for some help/tips in making the transition from using this aid to NOT using this aid. I am really struggling to make progress, and wanted to ask those who are successful driving without SC enabled how they came about doing it. I've searched the forum, and not really seeing any thing in this regard, mostly how to turn it off/on, why is it even in the game, definition of "Authentic" etc, and figured I would ask as I can't imagine I'm the only one who is struggling.

It has been explained to me by a very kind and fast driver, that no SC allows for sliding through corners which improves acceleration upon exit thus increasing lap times. Which sounds wonderful, except when that slide takes you through the corner and into a barrier :( I am finding lift off oversteer to be a plague. I have been able to match some of my WITH SC enabled lap times on some tracks, but can't seem to reap the benefit of learning to drive without this aid

I use a T300RS and have their Pro pedal set, I recently obtained both and am trying to learn how to live without SC now that I have good beginning set up at home. I typically drive the GT3/GT4/GTE class of cars. Thanks!

Drew

To answer your question in a simple way to better drive without SC you have to learn to modulate your braking and be better with your throttle control. In other words you cant just smash the brakes or the accelerator. I use my SC in races but I hard to learn to drive without it for most community events.

PhishHead
26-03-2018, 17:11
Thank you everyone for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated. I hadn't even thought of adjusting the diff from a setup where I was using SC to a scenario where I am not. That's a terrible mistake I've made. The suggestions about using a slower car are also well received, I will do that.

I apologize, I wasn't clear before: I do use TC and ABS for the classes I listed above, I am not trying to achieve an excellent lap without assists whatsoever. If they are on the car in real life, then I set it up in game to be the same. At this point, I am allocating the SC in Gameplay as "Authentic" and TC and ABS on Low (the white icons on speedometer are illuminated for TC and ABS, so I assume they are on, they certainly turn green from time to time).

My inputs need to improve, that much is clear. The lift off oversteer is my fault, not the cars nor the games. I need to accept that even though I may be slower (at this time) coming out of corners, it is still faster than spinning out of a corner. Walking before running.

Anyone else who has tips or pointers, please keep them coming. Thanks again,

Drew

pferreirag60
26-03-2018, 18:10
The "magic" is just how sensible you are with all the inputs, Pedals and wheel... it is different from car to car, some you can abuse them, where others are just like a woman...very sensible to any kind of input :)

gp2112
26-03-2018, 19:47
I would agree that to learn you have to start at the bottom. A lot of things you must learn about car control are learned in the slower cars. With or without the aids, if you do not learn the basics like recovering from a slide or stopping an impending slide, no amount of aids will help you become faster.

Watch cockpit vids of drivers. You know that little twitch you see them make with the steering wheel? They are not thinking about it when they do it, they just do it. That is car control and they are correcting a slide before it happens. That reaction is learned and you wont even know you have learned it until you realize you are doing it.

As for correcting lift off oversteer: Many may say it is your diff. They could be right. Or wrong. How are you braking? How do you downshift into a corner, do you row through the gears as you start braking? Do you brake deep and then row through the gears? On a manual tranny car are you rev-matching? If you row through the gears once you start braking no amount of adjusting the diff will help unless you put the setting so low the car cannot perform. Brake deeper without downshifting and then row downs through the gears. You may also be shifting to a lower gear than necessary: try taking that turn one gear higher, or do let off the brake and just before hitting the apex downshift. Now that set too high diff (or engine braking) will help you complete your turn and get you headed in the right direction better and quicker.

If you are not rev matching a manual (either heel toe, or lift-up/blip down on a dog box), you are going to get your rear-end pointed in the wrong direction. If you do not know how to rev match a sim is a perfect medium to learn.

Lastly: Sliding through a corner on today's tires is not recommended as it tends to wear tires in a manner that will not be helpful. It is good to learn how to slide a car through a curve if need be (car control) but slicks of yore were not as soft as they are today, even the soft slicks would be considered very hard today, thus they stood up to sliding more. Drivers don't slide cars through corners like the once did as it is slower but also cooks tires unreasonably. I would not put too much stock in to that fast driver unless I found out how fast he was in a long race. I see a lot of fast drivers until they have to worry about tire management. Then, they are fast until they hit the wall.

kevin kirk
27-03-2018, 04:25
I just set the car to were its so tight I have to actually try to spin it and back it down from there until I can handle it.

Zaskarspants
27-03-2018, 12:28
Try turning up the volume of the tyre noises and run lower engine noise. There is very useful grip information in the scrabble and skid noises.

gp2112
27-03-2018, 12:41
Another few things to try when trying to go faster around a track, (This is different than going fast):

Start your entry into a turn as wide as you can. For example: first turn Road America: Get as far left as you can and trail-brake into the turn. You should be in fifth or sixth at this time. Find out if your car can take the turn in fourth, if it will not turn downshift into third and try to keep your foot off the brake. The engine braking from the down shift may get the car around. Do not worry about riding the curb on exit, or even at the apex; that is what they are there for. You should be carrying as much speed through this turn as possible. If you do it right it can give you a second on your lap time.

Exit as wide as you can: This gives you a less severe corner to take and allows you to get on the loud pedal faster. Use the kerbs.

Turn in later: Instead of going to the inside of the track before the apex to make the turn, stay on the outside longer, brake before you usually would so you are essentially coasting by the time you are entering the turn, and turn in later. This will help you line up with the inside of the track better, (gives you more room to work with), and you straighten out the car faster. Turn two or three at Road America are good late-braking spots.

Front tires won't bite like you want them to? Loosen up the front suspension and anti-sway bars. This helps the front of the car "dive" - put more weight on the front tires- as you brake and the looser anti-sway allows body roll but the wheels stay square (more tread on the track) better.

Rear tends to get squirrelly on you? Stiffen the rear springs and anti-sway. The reason why the rear is so loose is, when you turn the cars body is rolling, thus upsetting the weight balance. Loose rear into a left turn will force the weight bias to the right. If the rear is loose that weight bias will shift quickly. The force of the weight shift has to go somewhere and that is on a tangent that is 90* from the long axis of the car, thus causing the spin (hope this was not confusing. Think oranges in a bag and now swing the bag in a circle. What direction do the oranges go when you stop swinging the bag? You have to stop the oranges...). A stiffer suspension and anti-roll will help with this weight transfer, keeping it in the middle of the car longer. This is especially helpful with rear and mid engined cars. In a Porsche I will set the rear springs significantly higher than the front as those oranges are at the rear bumper. All of them. In a mid engined car I may set the rears just under or just over the fronts. Same theory. It seems to help me.

One thing I just heard from another: Find spots on the track in which you can power out of an apex faster. There may be 3-5 to start with. Learn to power out of those turns better then begin working on others. This helped me significantly, along with the above, in my last race (until the tires went out because my pit crew did not change them...gonna fire the strategy dude....).

Keena
27-03-2018, 12:43
Little appreciated one this but also experiment with the tone setting on your ffb. Its not at all clear but low tone with higher volume gives lots of slip info, while higher tone and lower volume dampens the slip info and gives more road noise. I adjust these on a car by car, track by track basis. Too little tone can make the car feel twitchy but if its very well balanced and setup you can really keep it on the limit. If the setup is a bit off then just dialing tone up a bit and volume down will probably keep it driveable.
If it makes a difference for you let me know. :)

pferreirag60
27-03-2018, 14:29
Well, in my opinion Tone=0 is the best to feel the tires. I never change tone<>0, always at zero with all the cars. The volume yes, usually at 55, but with some cars i have to put it at maybe 70, just to have the same feelings that i have with another cars at 50 or 55.

hkraft300
27-03-2018, 15:12
Go back to basics. Teach yourself to drive on a race track. Baby steps.

If you’re driving clean, you won’t trigger TC/SC. SC only saves your butt when you cook it = too hot into or out of the corner.

Remember to follow the racing line. Be patient.

What we think: “if I brake really late, I’ll be really fast.”
What we do: brake too late.
Brake 50 meters earlier than you normally do. Slowly you’ll brake later and find the right braking point for yourself.

Slow in, fast out.

MrTulip
27-03-2018, 16:54
Regarding setups if the lift-off oversteer is the problem for you, you should use Clutch LSD differentials (set other differential types off). Set the coast ramp to lowest value (20 degrees), amount of clutches to maybe 6 to 10 and preload to high value like 100. This usually stabilizes most cars a lot.

It will also make the car bad at turn in to the bend so you may want to start increasing coast ramp until you are comfortable with the amount of lift-off effect and ability to turn in.

Also using spool diff does the same thing but it also causes oversteer under power, and at this point may want to avoid it.

In some cars it is possible to adjust engine braking, and you should put that to highest value which results least engine braking effect and least lift-off oversteer. Again go down from that until you feel confident.

When you are happy with the amount of oversteer from the lift-off, on the suspension side lowering anti-roll bars in the front of the car click or two may bring back some additional front end bite in the turn in phase you lost in differential tuning.

PhishHead
27-03-2018, 22:37
This is an incredible amount of extremely helpful information, and I won’t be the only one who benefits to be sure.
Thank you so much everyone.

hkraft300
27-03-2018, 23:19
Formula rookie at long beach. Lift off oversteer that sucker at every bend.
When it is pointing the direction you want, full throttle it to plant the arse and launch.
Not the fast way round the track, but it’s the fun way.

simsimsheree
28-03-2018, 03:17
I'd probably say that tuning yourself out of bad habits isn't the way to go. Until you are able to push the lower power cars with no aids and a basic stock tune, you may find that all you are doing is mechanically mitigating bad habits. You are trading one aid for another.

The low power track cars (GT5, GT4 Cayman etc.) are reasonably tuned. Stable gives you understeer, Loose a hair of oversteer. Try those with no aids, see how you do. Stick to one car for at least a week. Figure out stability by inputs, not tuning.