PDA

View Full Version : About the change on GT car slicks behaviour



Pages : [1] 2 3

demand34
09-04-2018, 11:24
Well I think it is pretty obvious at this point that the main change in the slicks behaviour, for both hards and softs lie in the fact that we have to turn the wheel less now as it the flex point would have been decreased by a good margin, but at the same time you can recover the car (on slicks, which doesn't feel natural) with more ease than even before once they are up to temp by the third lap more or less.

Slicks for GT cars (GT3, GTE GT1 etc) now feel as broken and unnatural as FA/FC/FR3.5 slicks are, but with the addition of extra chances for correcting the always skidding car regardless how soft you are on the throttle. I don't think this is realistic by any means regardless it may be that fun correcting your spin on a GT car at higher speeds and angles, something that reminds me of GTSports where you can do this too. But the problem, the actual one, not only lies in these skidding tyres but in...

... the usual changes you made in the differential before, specially on the acceleration diff to deal with excessive wheel spinning on slicks (by opening the accel diff and increasing preload for instance) have been rendered useless now, even pointless, because these new slicks are all about skidding around and correcting the car regardless your diff setting.

Fortunately, the amazing gorgeous pireli street tyre model seems to be working as always, and I can't feel these last changes on the GT slicks have affected them in any form, so street cars specially of course Road A continue to be the actual blast in this game.

I guess it is time now to dive into the rallycross section of the game and the continue to set fast laps times on the Mercedes Ice track (both categories which still have amazing physics and thank God haven't been touched in this patch I can confirm) for the next three months..., until you again change the tyre physics.

I'm seriously getting tyred of the changes in the handling. Could you please return to something like patch 2.0 GT slicks and leave them as that?, you can not pretend by doing a dramatic tyre change in every patch that the game is a sim or that it tries to mimic reality, because which of the three handling models for slick tyres that we have gone through since the game was released is the closest to real life?, I tell you that if you continue down this road then the answer will be none of them at all, because if you say that one thing is realistic and then proceed to change it then there's something wrong here, which is, exactly, what happened to assetto corsa, game that began featuring a very refined handling model and ended up being completely bollocks.

Please stop with these dramatic changes on the tyres. Please devs choose one of the three we have already gone through, and let it stay..., but please not this last one lol.

Just an honest opinion on these absolutely awful new slicks for GT cars. This can not be the real thing. No way.

rich1e I
09-04-2018, 12:14
I'm on console so I can't comment on the tyre model change but if you say road A continues to be the actual blast in this game I'm not too concerned about the changes. I'd be more concerned if there weren't any changes at all and development just stopped after patch 2.

Sentry87
09-04-2018, 12:19
As a console user I've never dreaded an update as much as I am now.

APR193
09-04-2018, 12:20
I'm also on console and am curious to exactly what the issue is, especially as you say the FA/FC/F3.5 tyres are broken. I don't use any of the modern single seaters but have just driven the FA/FC and F3.5 to try and find out what the GT tyres may become in the next patch and can't find a problem. The FC is awful in my opinion at least with default setups but the FA and 3.5 felt brilliant.

cluck
09-04-2018, 12:23
Regardless of whether or not the current tyres are 'correct' (I have no idea, let me get that out of the way first and foremost - as well as pointing out that I haven't driven any of the GT3 cars since Patch 5 came out), every racing sim changes the tyre model over time. Lessons are learned from whatever the existing model is and new theories are worked out on how to do it better. To think that a tyre model is "done" is to misunderstand how tyre modelling is crafted. At each point in time, the tyre modellers will feel that they have things 'nailed' but then find something they've missed, or can tweak, to make it more accurate. So, at any given point in time, they are correct when they say it's realistic :).

MaXyM
09-04-2018, 12:24
@richie, I'm looking forward for your opinion once you get this updated. IMO hardcore simracers (PC mostly) can live with iceracing physics. But what about casual/console player base?

BTW OP is not expressing his objection to improvements. The point is, those changes are so drastic that they look like random change rather than improvement. By going the 'more accurate' path I understand tune up/make tiny changes which follow the same direction. You cannot create loose tire, then sticky one, then loose again saying that it's continuous improvement.

Also add completely missing documentation of those changes and impact on current game modes (TT).

I'm for improvements too. But completely changed tires behavior should take a place in the game successor, not in already released title.

cluck
09-04-2018, 12:37
I'm looking forward for your opinion once you get this updated. IMO hardcore simracers (PC mostly) can live with iceracing physics. But what about casual players?

BTW OP is not expressing his objection to improvements. The point is, those changes are so drastic that they look like random change rather than improvement. Also add completely missing documentation of those changes and impact on current game modes (TT).
I'm for improvements too. But completely changed tires behavior should take a place in the game successor, not in already released title.Even if something is fundamentally wrong with the existing model? Of course, yes, without knowing what was changed (and/or why), we don't know but to flatly state that things shouldn't change at all is not the right path, IMHO.

And in case my post was misinterpreted somehow, I'm not having a go at the OP, I'm simply pointing out that tyre modelling is never "done". It is always a work-in-progress thing, in every sim out there (at least, all those that I'm aware of, that are still being supported). Sometimes those changes reveal something amazing and work perfectly, sometimes they don't. I genuinely have no idea if this is the former or latter, I don't drive the GT3 cars enough to dare to comment. What I will say, though, is that the tyres won't have just been changed for a laugh and dumped on us, the public, there will have been a perfectly good reason behind any change.

All of this is assuming, of course, that something didn't go wrong somewhere. That's always a possibility.

rich1e I
09-04-2018, 12:51
@richie, I'm looking forward for your opinion once you get this updated. IMO hardcore simracers (PC mostly) can live with iceracing physics. But what about casual/console player base?

BTW OP is not expressing his objection to improvements. The point is, those changes are so drastic that they look like random change rather than improvement. By going the 'more accurate' path I understand tune up/make tiny changes which follow the same direction. You cannot create loose tire, then sticky one, then loose again saying that it's continuous improvement.

Also add completely missing documentation of those changes and impact on current game modes (TT).

I'm for improvements too. But completely changed tires behavior should take a place in the game successor, not in already released title.

Shouldn't be too long until Microsoft gives us green light for the update and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the changes affect the handling.

demand34
09-04-2018, 13:05
Shouldn't be too long until Microsoft gives us green light for the update and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the changes impact the handling.if you are on a wheel and always using your fine setups having loose as the base, then you're not gonna believe it.

I'll try to explain it quick. Wet tyres on wet tracks continue to be the blast they've always been, as long as of course you go on heavy downforce setting. Anyway, please note that before 5.0 you could also go fast on lowdownforce settings on GT cars too as long as you increased the preload and opened the deceleration diff by good margins. This needs ot be noted, because the differential settings continued to be the decisive factor in project cars 2, which was amaaaaaaazingggg stuff, seriously. Well, no longer. Diff settings mean nothing now, and i explain.

On slick tyres, either hard or soft then handling is now about skidding around but with sublime precision, but the tyres slide so much that it renders your open differential settings with combined high preload copmpletele pointless, even useless , which before something basic in order to run the car steady enough on very low downforce settings. You did that to prevent wheel spinning when exiting corners. Well, it doesn't matter now lol. Set diff as you wish that the outcome shall be the same.

I mean. Yes sms, it is very fun to recover the car on slicks at impossible angles, like in GTsport (think about this, come on); we may be also doing faster laps too under some particualr circumstances, but..., don't you think slicks, hard slicks precisely were perfect for example in patch 2?

Bealdor
09-04-2018, 13:08
if you are on a wheel and always using your fine setups having loose as the base, then you're not gonna believe it.

I'll try to explain it quick. Wet tyres on wet tracks continue to be the blast they've always been, as long as of course you go on heavy downforce setting. Anyway, please note that before 5.0 you could also go fast on lowdownforce settings on GT cars too as long as you increased the preload and opened the deceleration diff by good margins. This needs ot be noted, because the differential settings continued to be the decisive factor in project cars 2, which was amaaaaaaazingggg stuff, seriously. Well, no longer. Diff settings mean nothing now, and i explain.

On slick tyres, either hard or soft then handling is now about skidding around but with sublime precision, but the tyres slide so much that it renders your open differential settings with combined high preload copmpletele pointless, even useless , which before something basic in order to run the car steady enough on very low downforce settings. You did that to prevent wheel spinning when exiting corners. Well, it doesn't matter now lol. Set diff as you wish that the outcome shall be the same.

I mean. Yes sms, it is very fun to recover the car on slicks at impossible angles, like in GTsport (think about this, come on); we may be also doing faster laps too under some particualr circumstances, but..., don't you think slicks, hard slicks precisely were perfect for example in patch 2?

Did you delete your old setups and/or try a new one like Fight-test suggested here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62513-Patch-5-0&p=1498687&viewfull=1#post1498687)?

OddTimer
09-04-2018, 13:24
Did you delete your old setups and/or try a new one like Fight-test suggested here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62513-Patch-5-0&p=1498687&viewfull=1#post1498687)?

This! I can't agree more with Fight's testing. It takes some time to get used to the new tire model, but it is offering a lot more options and more fun! What I am also finding is that I must have a setup for quali which is normally on soft tires and hards for the race. I've been racing in the summer and with the exception of Monza, all the other tracks I've had to use hard tires. It is more important than ever to get tire temps and pressures correct now.

I understand why some folk are upset as driving feels different and your old setups may not be ideal for the new tire model. Just give it a go and you will be positively surprised!

My only concern is, is this tire model what SMS envisioned for the game in the first place or are those unexpected changes the result from other things being updated in game? It would be great to have SMS dive into the details of the tire changes. Hopefully after 5.0 is out on consoles they will!

demand34
09-04-2018, 13:41
Did you delete your old setups and/or try a new one like Fight-test suggested here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62513-Patch-5-0&p=1498687&viewfull=1#post1498687)?I always delete all my setups when a patch is released (I enter the documents/pc2/savegame/arandomnumber/pc2/tunning setups folder and delete the files inside), but haven't tried the second tip. doing it now wait

MaXyM
09-04-2018, 13:56
Did you delete your old setups and/or try a new one like Fight-test suggested here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62513-Patch-5-0&p=1498687&viewfull=1#post1498687)?

While I can confirm that after patch5, older setups causes crazy car behavior, creating new one even with the same values helps but doesn't give pre-patch result (stability-wise). A car remains significantly less stable. In my case (M6 GT3 on Spa) i had to use extreme diff settings to minimize power over-steering. I wasn't able to setup this car to be on throttle under-steering (which wasn't a case prior to patch).

I don't understand how setups might be incompatible between versions, considering the same values entered. Do they (SMS) stores into setups some magic values or part of physics? How is it close to cheating on simulation?

And the final thing: if patch really requires getting rid of all pre-patch setups, it has to be communicated clearly by dev team. Not by you, nor other moderators nor by some of us who accidentally figured that out. It has to be official.

Anyone has though about all those setups available in TT? Actually today it turned already into mix of new and old ones... total mess.

David Wright
09-04-2018, 14:11
I don't understand how setups might be incompatible between versions, considering the same values entered. Do they (SMS) stores into setups some magic values or part of physics? How is it close to cheating on simulation?



In ISIMotor sims, setup values are stored as a number indicating their position on the range of allowed values. For example if you can have a spring rate of 100lbs/in, 150 lbs/in or 200 lbs/in, 100 would be stored as a 0, 150 as a 1 and 200 as a 2. This goes for all setup values such as tyre pressures, camber, wing settings etc. Since SMS started off with the ISIMotor, its quite possible the Madness engine uses a similar approach.

MaXyM
09-04-2018, 14:27
OK, it could work this way.
Then how drastic and unspoken changes had been applied to the cars, if causes so huge changes in cars behavior. I could imagine some fine-tuning which is barely recognizable by most of players. is that mean previous version of car physics was affected by some serious bug? Or maybe current one is? Without SMS staff feedback it's wasting time doing circles. On the other side I can see Doug is contributing to the forum, but for some reason ignores cars behavior subject.

demand34
09-04-2018, 14:57
ok I tried by also deleting the entire pc2 folder, not just the setups one and there's no placebo effect at all. Tried default loose setups again with stock diff settings and samey story; car oversteers like there's no tomorrow as soon as you go even soft on the thorttle. I opened then acceleration differ to radical angles like 90 to eliminate trace of powersliding on the rear (as it's always worked previous patch 5), and it made no difference. Simple as that. Light throttle and sometimes skid, even though you can save them most.

I don't like this model for soft and hard GT slicks, let alone if it renders diff settings pointless. In playing with the differential settings is where I found true fun at setting the cars in Project Cars 2 and the subsequent changes in handling they often supposed.

I think there's also some sort of issues with livetrack and setups. File management or something with livetrack and the track temps messing things up..., just not sure anymore, but of course the new hard/soft slick model is all over the place imho. GT cars are not meant to go sliding all over the place .

There's something very wrong here with the slicks, not to mention on FA and FC which is already a classic on areas that sure have something wrong to them. Livetrack/file management of some sort issue?, may be too.

MaXyM
09-04-2018, 15:33
ok I tried by also deleting the entire pc2 folder, not just the setups one and there's no placebo effect at all. Tried default loose setups again with stock diff settings and samey story; car oversteers like there's no tomorrow as soon as you go even soft on the thorttle. I opened then acceleration differ to radical angles like 90 to eliminate trace of powersliding on the rear (as it's always worked previous patch 5), and it made no difference. Simple as that. Light throttle and sometimes skid, even though you can save them most.

I don't like this model for soft and hard GT slicks, let alone if it renders diff settings pointless. In playing with the differential settings is where I found true fun at setting the cars in Project Cars 2 and the subsequent changes in handling they often supposed.

I can confirm. It might be subjective feeling but playing with power ramp has minimal if not none effect right now.
It looks like indication of new bug rather than change with purpose.

I found another "glitch" I just wrote about in tuning subforum. Tire wear of new hards is negligible. The wear of single set of tires after 90min race at Spa (temps 32/44*C) was vary between 9% and 11%*.
Can you imagine doing 24 hour race at spa with only 2 sets of tires?

CSL-Drive
09-04-2018, 15:52
In rFactor 2 and Automobilista the gt3 cars have the exact same capability of drifting at high speed. The only game where this is not possible is iRacing, and everyone bashes that game for the worst realism of all sims. Especially tires. Assetto Corsa is also difficult to drift with gt3 cars, on top of that causing your tires to overheat like hell too, and yet people compliment AC for best drifting realism. Altho they are most likely talking about specific drifting cars, and bash other cars in AC. In real life, even in F1, people drift at high speed corners, in GT 3 you even see on left turns, the front left wheel going up flying in the air as they turn so heavily leaning on their right rear as it is spinning, drifting sliping, but not losing grip entirely, not losing control, like happens in iRacing. Ofcourse, this depends on track condition, temperature and tire temperature and type.

cpcdem
09-04-2018, 16:34
So I assume you mean the new sliding behavior is more realistic. Possibly it is, I have not driven GT3 cars in my life to compare. Is it also realistic that now it's also hard to keep the car in control under braking, even when having ABS set to full?

demand34
09-04-2018, 17:05
In rFactor 2 and Automobilista the gt3 cars have the exact same capability of drifting at high speed. .You could already drift GT cars through corners on slicks at high speeds and also control a spin before 5.0. Trail braking has also been working as expected here. The difference before was that throttle inputs felt coherent to the force applied and more progressive, and that the differential settings worked as expected too in this area. Neither of these last two work anymore in 5.0. You just slide around, cold or warn tires, softs or hards, it doesn't matter at all.

The realistic thing with sliding GT cars in project cars 2 had already been achieved imo, at least in part with hard tire compounds in patch 2.0, with similar results in 3.0 and 4.0.

5.0 feels like totally messed up and taken to the extreme on how GT cars on slicks are supposed to behave and slide when applying throttle. , before it was like:Cold track? ok give me softs and that is all. 40C upwards tarmac?, gimme my hards. Nothing of this works too in 5.0. You slide around with either regardless the track temp, and that by no means can be the real thing on cars like these mounted on slicks.

RyokoMaruyama
09-04-2018, 17:19
See you in the Monza GT3 lobbies I guess.

John Hargreaves
09-04-2018, 17:28
Are you guys running with ABS and TC enabled as the car was designed, or using unrealistic settings on the driver aids? I'm just wondering as I drove a GT3 race last night with realistic settings for the car and it seemed fine.

SeaNNyT
09-04-2018, 19:09
Why were the tire models even touched again? Patch 4 seemedto be decently balanced.

AbeWoz
09-04-2018, 19:11
Why were the tire models even touched again? Patch 4 seemedto be decently balanced.

because as new information is acquired by the devs, or they notice mistakes or errors, changes are made... for the same reason AC is on TM10....

VelvetTorpedo
09-04-2018, 19:22
I was going to bring up AC tires being on their 10th iteration also

sylekta
09-04-2018, 20:51
Anyone has though about all those setups available in TT? Actually today it turned already into mix of new and old ones... total mess.

100% this, they need to remove all TT tunes prior to the latest patch, just make them unavailable, (or better yet have a seasonal TT board so you can only see times for the latest patch)

demand34
09-04-2018, 20:55
because as new information is acquired by the devs, or they notice mistakes or errors, changes are made... for the same reason AC is on TM10....

I was going to bring up AC tires being on their 10th iteration alsoYes I myself brought the assetto example in the very first post, and like in that game they might be changing the tires and the handling for the worse, just as It happened to that game.

Patch 5.0 slicks look more like some experiment rather than any improvement.

Fight-Test
09-04-2018, 21:33
Yes I myself brought the assetto example in the very first post, and like in that game they might be changing the tires and the handling for the worse, just as It happened to that game.

Patch 5.0 slicks look more like some experiment rather than any improvement.

Demand, not saying your wrong but before you keep spreading this around here without providing video's or other hard evidence just take a step back and lets see if we can find the issue. Like is said the fast guys are still fast and not complaining. So its not a universal issue. You also said your wheel is turning very quick and not normal. Other than the rear slick tires I have heard of none of these but from you. THey are easy to test though and IM sure we will get to bottom real quick but with the times in the GT3's for can am Saturday night 252818

demand34
10-04-2018, 07:01
I never said my wheel is turning too quick (t300rs and t3pa pedals). It's working perfectly fine, and by no means this slick tire is something isolated given many people in this forum is also reporting this problem with just the GT slick tires, not just me.

I have a wheel so I use loose setups as the base, and from there I tune them. (I deleted all setups and folder and It made no difference after).

There's something very wrong with slicks, hards and softs (not wets) after 5.0

And you will excuse now, but I didn't want to post these videos to brag about anything, but I see i must do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS6KJ9tdhCE&t=277s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-jBD1ZcYGg&t=10s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IUNJpCsZZ8

I'm neither youtuber nor I earn money with clicks, so you can on them click safely if you want to.

As you can see I'm no rookie, and know what PC2 is about. Problem is that I also like GT car racing not just hypercars, so after patch 5.0 half of the game went down the toilet to me in that regard.

Thanks for the tip anyway about stable setups, but you know I can't use them, basically.

glm3141
10-04-2018, 07:23
For what it's worth, we ran a 2.4h race at bathurst in gt3 cars last Saturday, so the patch dropped right as most people were preparing for it. Those who had selected cars affected by the BOP changes in Patch 5 were complaining. Especially the Nisssan GTR had apparently gotten way more unstable. However, I was driving the Renault RS 01 and that felt the same, so I don't think those changes are all to do with tyres.

wesker6664
10-04-2018, 08:10
The difference before was that throttle inputs felt coherent to the force applied and more progressive, and that the differential settings worked as expected too in this area. Neither of these last two work anymore in 5.0. You just slide around, cold or warn tires, softs or hards, it doesn't matter at all.
Speak for yourself please. While there's definitely a difference in tyres (most importantly a bit less grip for hards, and they take longer to warm up), cars are not dramatically undrivable like you seem to imply.

I'm speaking of GT3 cars btw, i can achieve more or less the same times as before in the Huracan. Briefly tried the M6 and felt the same, bit more playful but far from sliding all over the place !

hkraft300
10-04-2018, 08:47
Maybe it's not a diff but a balance issue elsewhere?
Weight changes on a lot of GT3 cars might have made the loose setups more aggressive?
Diff will only go so far to mitigate balance issues.

Anyway, subscribing for more thoughts on the new tires.

I've kept more or less the same setups since patch 3 but I've had to change to soft compounds since patch 4 and opened the diff a little That's about it.

ironik
10-04-2018, 09:10
For what it's worth, we ran a 2.4h race at bathurst in gt3 cars last Saturday, so the patch dropped right as most people were preparing for it. Those who had selected cars affected by the BOP changes in Patch 5 were complaining. Especially the Nisssan GTR had apparently gotten way more unstable. However, I was driving the Renault RS 01 and that felt the same, so I don't think those changes are all to do with tyres.


Maybe it's not a diff but a balance issue elsewhere?
Weight changes on a lot of GT3 cars might have made the loose setups more aggressive?
Diff will only go so far to mitigate balance issues.

Anyway, subscribing for more thoughts on the new tires.

I've kept more or less the same setups since patch 3 but I've had to change to soft compounds since patch 4 and opened the diff a little That's about it.

Point is that we don't know what SMS actually did.
We're all speculating about feelings and we all know how hard it is to have an objective feeling.

I've been driving the Renault GT3 for almost 18 000 km : I think I know that car quite well.
There is definitely something different. The car is much more oversteery and twitchy.
I'm usually using a quite oversteery setup already so yeah, it got even worse for me.
And as the car didn't get BoPed, it must be something related to the tyres, to the physics or a bug somewhere.

The problem is that we don't know. We know nothing and we're trying to guess things...

demand34
10-04-2018, 10:44
Speak for yourself please. While there's definitely a difference in tyres (most importantly a bit less grip for hards, and they take longer to warm up), cars are not dramatically undrivable like you seem to imply.

I'm speaking of GT3 cars btw, i can achieve more or less the same times as before in the Huracan. Briefly tried the M6 and felt the same, bit more playful but far from sliding all over the place !Congratulations on your ability to keep your laptimes prior and before patch even if it's just on one single car and category, but I'd humbly ask you to please keep your smart*** attitude to yourself as I've never said cars on these new slicks have become undrivable. I always speak for myself, with the difference that many others are also experiencing and reporting the same, like it or not.

edit:

so I don't think those changes are all to do with tyres.Then why the differential settings can hardly make any difference now?, It gotta be a tire thing.

Sankyo
10-04-2018, 10:49
Point is that we don't know what SMS actually did.
We're all speculating about feelings and we all know how hard it is to have an objective feeling.

I've been driving the Renault GT3 for almost 18 000 km : I think I know that car quite well.
There is definitely something different. The car is much more oversteery and twitchy.
I'm usually using a quite oversteery setup already so yeah, it got even worse for me.
And as the car didn't get BoPed, it must be something related to the tyres, to the physics or a bug somewhere.

The problem is that we don't know. We know nothing and we're trying to guess things...
Did you try and modify the car's set-up to make it behave as it did before?

ironik
10-04-2018, 11:02
Did you try and modify the car's set-up to make it behave as it did before?

Not yet. I have a problem with my wheel so I can't make tests anymore.
But yeah, I'll have to find a solution as I'm driving in a league and I need to be competitive.
I'll do what I can to help but it would be great to have some info on what has changed for the gt3 cars.

ironik
10-04-2018, 11:06
Actually I did for a 1.4 setup around Zhuhai:

- softest rear springs
- softest rear Arb (0n/m)
- 75 power ramp instead of 55-60
- harder front springs and ARB
- Less front camber
- less front toe out
- higher steering wheel ratio
- harder rear slow rebound.

It was a quick test just after the 1.5 patch.

Bultaco85
10-04-2018, 11:14
Every sim in the market gets changes in tire model over time, so they can make it better through experimentation. Get over it.

Sankyo
10-04-2018, 11:24
Actually I did for a 1.4 setup around Zhuhai:

- softest rear springs
- softest rear Arb (0n/m)
- 75 power ramp instead of 55-60
- harder front springs and ARB
- Less front camber
- less front toe out
- higher steering wheel ratio
- harder rear slow rebound.

It was a quick test just after the 1.5 patch.

Please also try creating that same set-up from scratch in 1.5 instead of loading it, just to rule out the seeming pre-patch 5 set-up loading issue.

Rodders
10-04-2018, 11:28
Personally I've loved every car I've driven since the patch as the steering feels better than ever before, in particular the feeling of rubber under you. In fact the only car I really didn't like was the new Ferrari challenge, which feels like there is a huge gap in the FFB and the tyres are made of wood instead of rubber.

Otherwise I'm generally over-joyed at how realistic some of the cars feel, especially the high downforce cars and my only real world experience I can directly compare - the go-karts - is now pretty much just like driving a real go-kart. I recall the go-karts being horrid on initial release but now they brig huge smiles to me.

In regards to the OP and GT3 cars - I've not touched my GT3 tunes at all since the patch, can go slightly quicker in them, more consistent and enjoy driving them more. Given what I know about how easy GT3 are to drive in RL, I'd say they are closer than ever before to the real thing and softs/hards are now even better with more decisions to make in regards to when to run them.

So overall couldn't disagree with the OP more.

demand34
10-04-2018, 11:58
^I can do faster laptimes now with these slicks too, but that's not the point. That doesn't mean they feel better.

And about experimentation with changing tires in every patch.., if ain't broken (patch 2.0) don't fix it.

AbeWoz
10-04-2018, 12:04
^I can do faster laptimes now with these slicks too, but that's not the point. That doesn't mean they feel better.

And about experimentation with changing tires in every patch.., if ain't broken (patch 2.0) don't fix it.

who's to say that the patch 2.0 tires were 'correct'? what if they were actually broken and now they are fixed? Just playing devils advocate here.

MaXyM
10-04-2018, 12:09
Every sim in the market gets changes in tire model over time, so they can make it better through experimentation. Get over it.

I was really waiting for such comment, lol.
So eat this: changes in tire model provided to other sims are well documented and community is often informed before the changes are actually applied.

Bultaco85
10-04-2018, 12:12
I dont have to eat anything. Complaining is free, im just stating something that is real. Some people lose too much time complaining about anything that makes them changing the way they need to drive.

Tire model will improve over time, but for that it needs to be changed.

" well documented" - Reaaally not true, just look at Assetto Corsal update logs.

demand34
10-04-2018, 12:14
I really waited for such comment, lol.yeah hehe same here. It's also very probable that he was talking about assetto corsa as well, in which case also happened the complete opposite. When the game had little time the handling was awesome, but when they began changing and changing and over and over again their tires, handling got a lot worse eventually.

That's was also another point in the topic. I don't want PC2 to follow asseto's route of screwing the tires update after update, because the game was already awesome by patch 2.0 in that area.

Rodders
10-04-2018, 12:17
^I can do faster laptimes now with these slicks too, but that's not the point. That doesn't mean they feel better.

And about experimentation with changing tires in every patch.., if ain't broken (patch 2.0) don't fix it.

But I think they feel better too - TBH I'm finding most cars do. I've only heard people agreeing with me in my club and they generally act surprised when they hear peeps are complaining about it on the forum?

I will say that I don't drive any class obsessively and change between them a lot so if you do focus on one specific class and have tuned it to an inch of it's life, you are probably more sensitive to changes like this as you were so hugely intimate with each aspect of your cars. However to say it's now broken isn't fair as many really like how the game feels now, in particular the feeling of real rubber under you.

If my memory serves, I recall not being nearly as happy with the tyre model in Patch 2. Softs were virtually useless in all but almost freezing conditions. Now you have a real decision to make and both softs and hards can be optimal for you in any given race.

This strikes me as different don't like syndrome rather than worse than it was before. Oh and you mentioned the horrid Formula Renault in your OP. I think the Formula Renault is bloody fantastic now. Huuuuuuugely better than it was on release and early patches. Not tried the FA/FC recently as really didn't like them before. I thought the FA was about the worst car in the game lol. Will need to revisit them after these great tyre changes in Patch 5 :D

Listen horses for courses here I think and fair enough if you personally hate the patch 5 tyre changes. Absolutely love them over here, as do peeps in my club I speak to every night. Game keeps getting better and better.

wesker6664
10-04-2018, 12:17
changes in tire model provided to other sims are well documented and community is often informed before the changes are actually applied.
This i can agree with, there's definitely been a change to tyres and no mention of it in the patch notes : that is not understandable, imagine Capcom changing the combat system in Street Fighter and not letting know the comunity ??? I have no interest in a list of hundreds of bug fixes but changes to the core gameplay mechanics must be documented.

ironik
10-04-2018, 12:18
I dont have to eat anything. Complaining is free, im just stating something that is real. Some people lose too much time complaining about anything that makes them changing the way they need to drive.

Tire model will improve over time, but for that it needs to be changed.

" well documented" - Reaaally not true, just look at Assetto Corsal update logs.

We don't even know if SMS has updated the GT3 tyre model. So, get over what ?
Most of us here are not complaining. We're trying to understand what happened / is happening.

demand34
10-04-2018, 12:21
This i can agree with, there's definitely been a change to tyres and no mention of it in the patch notes : that is not understandable, imagine Capcom changing the combat system in Street Fighter and not letting know the comunity ??? I have no interest in a list of hundreds of bug fixes but changes to the core gameplay mechanics must be documented.Just changes on the ballast on some gt3 cars (Bentley etc). That's all the info we got for now. And It's precisely in the Bentley where I'm noticing this laughable oversteer (and not just on the Bentley) the most the moment i go soft soft very soft on the throttle, not even touching it at all. Also, same is happening with accel diffs opened all up to 90 lol. Come on..., there's something very wrong here with these tires. Do I score faster laptimes?, yes, but so what that is not the point let alone make these tires better than before.

Rodders
10-04-2018, 12:34
This i can agree with, there's definitely been a change to tyres and no mention of it in the patch notes : that is not understandable, imagine Capcom changing the combat system in Street Fighter and not letting know the comunity ??? I have no interest in a list of hundreds of bug fixes but changes to the core gameplay mechanics must be documented.

Yeah I can agree with this too - however I'm sure we were told for Patch 5.0 that they never done full patch notes so they could get the patch out sooner. I'm all for that approach TBH as at the end of the day it's how the cars feel out on track that matters - all the patch notes do is give you something to refer too for corroborating what you experience in game. Knowing if we have to delete previous tunes is an important one to tell us though.

Rodders
10-04-2018, 12:37
Just changes on the ballast on some gt3 cars (Bentley etc). That's all the info we got for now. And It's precisely in the Bentley where I'm noticing this laughable oversteer (and not just on the Bentley) the most the moment i go soft soft very soft on the throttle, not even touching it at all. Also, same is happening with accel diffs opened all up to 90 lol. Come on..., there's something very wrong here with these tires. Do I score faster laptimes?, yes, but so what that is not the point let alone make these tires better than before.

I'm trying to understand then why I'm finding I can hammer the throttle more aggressively out the bends on this patch? I get the subjective part of FFB but we seem to have polar opposite experiences on this aspect?

Out of interest, what wheel are you using and what flavour of FFB?

Also my main GT3's are the M6 and AMG Merc.

ironik
10-04-2018, 12:48
I'm trying to understand then why I'm finding I can hammer the throttle more aggressively out the bends on this patch? I get the subjective part of FFB but we seem to have polar opposite experiences on this aspect?

Out of interest, what wheel are you using and what flavour of FFB?

Also my main GT3's are the M6 and AMG Merc.

That's exactly what we're trying to find and why we're lost.

I'm using a T300RS, Informative.
I'm driving the Renault and I'm not lapping any better right now (I need to test so many things right now... but I have to repair my wheel first ^^)

I know at least one guy driving the M6, one guy driving the Renault and another one driving the Ferrari, who are experiencing the same "problem".

The AMG had a bug which has been corrected. That plus a significant buff and it's obvious why you should enjoy it better with patch 1.5 ;)

demand34
10-04-2018, 13:05
I'm trying to understand then why I'm finding I can hammer the throttle more aggressively out the bends on this patch? I get the subjective part of FFB but we seem to have polar opposite experiences on this aspect?

Out of interest, what wheel are you using and what flavour of FFB?

Also my main GT3's are the M6 and AMG Merc.t300rs and t3pa. FFB settings to immersive. Anyway, i don't think FFB and physics is the same thing, something you seem to be implying and that by no means will you find me there. FFB is one thing, and physics is another regardless the info you can or can't get through your wheel.

I'm also using my own setups (fresh patch 5.0 setups) but having loose as the base, of course, not stable, which I'm beginning to suspect it might be the reason for some of you not having trouble at all with the new slicks. I have also tried everything possible, ranging from very very soft rear springs to laughably open 90 acceleration diffs, which prior patch absolutely eliminated any trace of wheel spin at the obvious cost of losing acceleration on corner exit, which was the correct way things worked.

The GT3 cars I use are the Bentley, and sometimes the Mercedes. Yes man I like a challenge, not the easy way (Ferrari, porche etc), as you can also appreciate in the videos I posted some pages back.

You guys who ain't noticing anything wrong on the new tires are all on stable setups, are you not?

Hobbs77
10-04-2018, 13:25
I'll probably be one of those complaining about the next update..... CAUSE I'M LOVING THIS ONE! ..... Del. all my car setups and controller profile as I was experiencing some strange car/ffb handling issues after update. So far everything that I've tested feels the best that it's ever felt. :cheerful:

ironik
10-04-2018, 13:38
I'll probably be one of those complaining about the next update..... CAUSE I'M LOVING THIS ONE! ..... Del. all my car setups and controller profile as I was experiencing some strange car/ffb handling issues after update. So far everything that I've tested feels the best that it's ever felt. :cheerful:

What were your issues ?

blinkngone
10-04-2018, 14:18
t300rs and t3pa. FFB settings to immersive. Anyway, i don't think FFB and physics is the same thing, something you seem to be implying and that by no means will you find me there. FFB is one thing, and physics is another regardless the info you can or can't get through your wheel.

I'm also using my own setups (fresh patch 5.0 setups) but having loose as the base, of course, not stable, which I'm beginning to suspect it might be the reason for some of you not having trouble at all with the new slicks. I have also tried everything possible, ranging from very very soft rear springs to laughably open 90 acceleration diffs, which prior patch absolutely eliminated any trace of wheel spin at the obvious cost of losing acceleration on corner exit, which was the correct way things worked.

The GT3 cars I use are the Bentley, and sometimes the Mercedes. Yes man I like a challenge, not the easy way (Ferrari, porche etc), as you can also appreciate in the videos I posted some pages back.

You guys who ain't noticing anything wrong on the new tires are all on stable setups, are you not?

Hi demand34. Sorry you have all the issues but can't you check the WMD Portal? http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1988984740&vehicle=3293302308

The Bentley isn't a popular GT3 but some have run it with the new patch and at Brands someone did take out Suomy's Patch 4.0 WR and he used to have every single one at this track. The person did change the ABS to 80 as Ironik has suggested but his LSD is normal so it is working for him.
252851
252852

Rodders
10-04-2018, 14:24
t300rs and t3pa. FFB settings to immersive. Anyway, i don't think FFB and physics is the same thing, something you seem to be implying and that by no means will you find me there. FFB is one thing, and physics is another regardless the info you can or can't get through your wheel.

I'm also using my own setups (fresh patch 5.0 setups) but having loose as the base, of course, not stable, which I'm beginning to suspect it might be the reason for some of you not having trouble at all with the new slicks. I have also tried everything possible, ranging from very very soft rear springs to laughably open 90 acceleration diffs, which prior patch absolutely eliminated any trace of wheel spin at the obvious cost of losing acceleration on corner exit, which was the correct way things worked.

The GT3 cars I use are the Bentley, and sometimes the Mercedes. Yes man I like a challenge, not the easy way (Ferrari, porche etc), as you can also appreciate in the videos I posted some pages back.

You guys who ain't noticing anything wrong on the new tires are all on stable setups, are you not?

The FFB you feel in PCars2 is directly tied to the physics of the car. Ian Bell said so in an interview just as the game was released.

I always start with the loose setup and tweak from there.

I recall having an issue with the graphics settings after a patch where nothing I changed made any difference. Had to delete the graphics config files and after that all the settings worked again. I wonder if you are having a similar issue with the controller settings if you say changing the diff makes no difference. I know the diffs do make a difference still as I played about with them for my league race at the weekend (was in a FWD touring car).

Hobbs77
10-04-2018, 14:24
What were your issues ?

Specifically not sure as I didn't take any time/effort to analyze. But in general, each cars handling was acting odd to me, along with the ffb with sudden spikes even after making setup changes to the cars. So I decided to delete my car and wheel files ....like I was use to doing on a daily basis during pCARS 1 dev. days....and now everything that I've tested so far with this update/patch seems to be a much more enjoyable driving experience for me. Sometimes I'm on the other side after an update but not with this one....well at least not atm anyways. lol :p

Patches/Updates.... It's all just part of the growing pains of the evolution of the game moving forward.... and I for one am thankful for the continuing support from SMS and all of the blue teams efforts! :encouragement:

demand34
10-04-2018, 14:28
omg. One of Figh-Test league mates could be right about the "issue" being now the preload rather than the tires, or loose setups or stable or whatever.

I've just give it a go to what I first though It was completely stupid (sorry fight-test I explain the why right now:) ), I mean about setting the preload values to something like zero in order to eradicate this new weird wheel spin at all times, on slicks only, not on road tires.

I drive hypercars mostly. It is where I find my challenge, and I'm fast with them; very fast, and can also even drift around with them without hesitation at all times through the track (until tires burn of course lol) in cars many of you always label as "death trap"; "undrivable" etc, such as the McLaren 720 or the Porche 918 (Others like LaFerrari or The Huayra are too easy to drive). If that not crazy enough for ya yet, of course without any assist working, ABS included, and factory steering rack too. This all makes me feel like a ****** champion at all times, of course:highly_amused:

The secret to achieve this on this monsters, and ok there you go I don't mind sharing what my secret was, and now you will understand my hesitation at first Fight-Test, was to go on very very high preload settings+ also very open deceleration differentials (to even values of 70 or higher in cars like the 720). That is what granted me so much stability and the ability to drift at will on these titans that many continue to see and label as "undrivable".

However, and now on the area you all care the most and what I also wanted to enter, GT cars, my prior patch 5.0 settings with high preload settings and open acceleration diffs also granted me cool results with these also little buggers that GT3 cars are, mounted on slicks. I hope this last serves as the explanation to the experience (bad experience) I was getting, and why I coutinued to believe the problem was in the tires.

Anyway, I still find kind "absurd" the new preload values (bordering on zero) that allow me to put an ease on the rear tires, and would like the Doug or somebody that works on the games physics please come in and explain us the further details we might not know as of yet after finding out about this.

And to bring this to another level, I also tried zero (lol) preload settings on FA with slicks (tires I often have labelled as bugged or broken, or just too unsafe when taking corners at speed at some angles), and It's also made a world of a difference here too, leaving me most impressed, but still concerned if the preload is now bugged or something instead of the tires, because high preload values, of even up to 120nh still are what allows me to go mad on hypercars and control them at all times as If they were little road cars without much power on the rear.

I hope I explained myself well enough at this point. The new tire model then it is now more refined because at least you have to take the three warm up laps more seriously until they work fine, which yes..., it is an improvement.

But what about the preload thing now having to go this low on its values, Doug?, could you please exaplin the change on this diff setting more in depth please?

Thanks in advance, and sorry If I annoyed anybody in this topic, but you have to understand that what I was noticing was not coming off my imagination.

rich1e I
10-04-2018, 14:30
So it seems the latest update is pretty polarizing. I'm hoping the devs stop keeping us in the dark about the changes they made soon. Can't wait to download and test patch 5.

demand34
10-04-2018, 14:39
So it seems the latest update is pretty polarizing. I'm hoping the devs stop keeping us in the dark about the changes they made soon. Can't wait to download and test patch 5.Just watch out your preload setting if you are on loose setups :) Go on very low values, bordering on zero (20 or so will do it for most GT3), and from there re-adjust your accel and decel diffs too until you find your cool spot on the rear tires.

We need Doug to explain us little further on little details though we might be yet unaware of.

rich1e I
10-04-2018, 14:44
Just watch out your preload setting if you are on loose setups :) Go on very low values, bordering on zero (20 or so will do it for most GT3)

We need Doug to explain us little further on little details though we might be yet unaware of.

I haven't messed around too much with preload so far tbf. 100-120 seemed to be ok for me. I think sms are not allowed to give infos about the changes until all updates have been approved.

GrimeyDog
10-04-2018, 15:47
I dont Know what the Issue was that they changed the tire Model again.... the tire Model before the update felt Great to Me i race mostly Gt3 & Gt4.... I always drive Stock/Default Car set up they feel pretty good IMO and i have No problem keeping up with some really fast people. I drive with No Assist because i throttle steer alot to get the car pointed..... I havent been on alot since the last patch but the runs i did My times were off .500 to .750 i thought it was just Me messing up but maybe Not

demand34
10-04-2018, 15:53
^Check post #59

blinkngone
10-04-2018, 16:19
No unusual differentials on the setups I have posted in this thread.http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62627-Setup-Requests-for-Consoles(pictures)-Post-Patch-5-0

This is a differential from Nurburgring, the others are using Default. I could go on and on and on... You guys can also search for yourself as well.
252858

blinkngone
10-04-2018, 16:21
Mercedes AMG Dubai Autodrome GP 07/04/2018 19:22.
252856

rich1e I
10-04-2018, 16:52
I dont Know what the Issue was that they changed the tire Model again.... the tire Model before the update felt Great to Me i race mostly Gt3 & Gt4.... I always drive Stock/Default Car set up they feel pretty good IMO and i have No problem keeping up with some really fast people. I drive with No Assist because i throttle steer alot to get the car pointed..... I havent been on alot since the last patch but the runs i did My times were off .500 to .750 i thought it was just Me messing up but maybe Not

I don't think they changed the tyre model in patch 4. They had announced changes in soft tyres but no major tyre model changes. It's not even clear if they touched the tyre model this time until we get more detailed patch notes or a confirmation from the devs. Apparently GTE tyres are grippier now and GT3 tyres a bit less. Probably they wanted to increase the performance gap between GTEs and GT3s.
It seems people are testing and testing and slowly figuring out what changed and why.

blinkngone
10-04-2018, 17:54
I don't think they changed the tyre model in patch 4. They had announced changes in soft tyres but no major tyre model changes. It's not even clear if they touched the tyre model this time until we get more detailed patch notes or a confirmation from the devs. Apparently GTE tyres are grippier now and GT3 tyres a bit less. Probably they wanted to increase the performance gap between GTEs and GT3s.
It seems people are testing and testing and slowly figuring out what changed and why.

Hi rich1e I, yes there hasn't been anything official about the tire change but most people feel there are some changes in GT3 that adversely affected some people. But as for the preload I am not seeing anything unusual in TT. Even the Audi with its 350 preload is being run successfully.
252859

blinkngone
10-04-2018, 18:23
Hockenheim GP, this is one of the cooler tracks in PCars 2. Car, Aston Martin Vantage GT3.
This is his differential, personally I wouldn't do this but the preload is working for him.
252861
Tires.
252862

ramm21
10-04-2018, 18:25
Am I the only one thats happy the diffs have been neutered? Admittedly, I don't tune much, so I don't really mess around with those presets. But it seems to me that some diff use is overly dramatized.

My understanding with "foot steering" IRL is that the majority of turning is done with steering input, and then you fine tune your line by shifting weight a little to the front or back with throttle/brake input, depending on where you need a little traction increase.

Sim racing "foot steering" seems to mean you flip that ratio. Now you use minimal steering input to just point a car a little to the left or right, and then swing it around the corner using your throttle input.

I may be naive in how diffs are tuned on race cars IRL. I would guess electronic diffs or electronically actuated diffs have a bit more tuning available in them, and teams can adjust locking with computers? What about the older mechanical systems though, do teams have 15 different diffs to swap in and out depending on track and driver preference?

blinkngone
10-04-2018, 18:47
Am I the only one thats happy the diffs have been neutered? Admittedly, I don't tune much, so I don't really mess around with those presets. But it seems to me that some diff use is overly dramatized.

My understanding with "foot steering" IRL is that the majority of turning is done with steering input, and then you fine tune your line by shifting weight a little to the front or back with throttle/brake input, depending on where you need a little traction increase.

Sim racing "foot steering" seems to mean you flip that ratio. Now you use minimal steering input to just point a car a little to the left or right, and then swing it around the corner using your throttle input.

I may be naive in how diffs are tuned on race cars IRL. I would guess electronic diffs or electronically actuated diffs have a bit more tuning available in them, and teams can adjust locking with computers? What about the older mechanical systems though, do teams have 15 different diffs to swap in and out depending on track and driver preference?

Ok, please run this neutered differential for me in TT. ATS-V. R. GT3 at Silverstone National. I can't seem to get it to work. But, my legs don't work so well so maybe you can control it better.
252864
I assume this is you at 0:55.439 +0:01.303 from 08/10/2017 the neutered differential might help you improve with the new patch.

Rodders
10-04-2018, 18:51
Am I the only one thats happy the diffs have been neutered? Admittedly, I don't tune much, so I don't really mess around with those presets. But it seems to me that some diff use is overly dramatized.

My understanding with "foot steering" IRL is that the majority of turning is done with steering input, and then you fine tune your line by shifting weight a little to the front or back with throttle/brake input, depending on where you need a little traction increase.

Sim racing "foot steering" seems to mean you flip that ratio. Now you use minimal steering input to just point a car a little to the left or right, and then swing it around the corner using your throttle input.

I may be naive in how diffs are tuned on race cars IRL. I would guess electronic diffs or electronically actuated diffs have a bit more tuning available in them, and teams can adjust locking with computers? What about the older mechanical systems though, do teams have 15 different diffs to swap in and out depending on track and driver preference?

I love the diffs for balancing a car to suit my style. Many cars that's pretty much all I change for my base tune. Also it's a game and personally the diffs help me play it so all happy here. I'm off to see if they really have neutered them but I've not had to re-tweak the diffs on any of my main cars since patch 5 and I'm still flying around the track happy.

Rodders
10-04-2018, 19:10
Just tested the diffs on the M6 GT3 - tried default loose then min/max individually on the preload, power and coast diff. All done exactly what I expected them to so appear pretty much fine. I can't be certain the min/max aren't over a smaller range in regards to actual effect but if I had to guess I'd say they were exactly the same.

To the OP - it sounds like you have something really wrong as this 0Nm preload idea, if it does help your issues, makes no sense at all and doesn't remotely reflect my experience in game.

ramm21
10-04-2018, 19:57
LOL maybe neutered was the wrong word to use there. How does "altered" sound?

@blinkngone- I have no idea what your post was referring to. I can't even tell if you're upset at something in my comment or not?? Why are you showing me the Porsche pop up screen?

blinkngone
10-04-2018, 20:33
LOL maybe neutered was the wrong word to use there. How does "altered" sound?

@blinkngone- I have no idea what your post was referring to. I can't even tell if you're upset at something in my comment or not?? Why are you showing me the Porsche pop up screen?

Sorry about the Porsche screen, I can't seem to delete it although I have tried. The differentials are largely working in my opinion. You were saying that you didn't think they were, so I asked you to try an altered differential to see what you think using a car/track that you have run in the past. You said you don't mess with the tunes much, others do. "But it seems to me that some diff use is overly dramatized." So, I set up a differential to see if you still feel the same after driving it. It's as simple as that.

ironik
10-04-2018, 22:10
I repaired my wheel and made a bit of training / tuning around Zhuhai for my next race.
I managed to do a nice laptime with the preload "hack" and a very weird setup ^^.

I had not much time sadly so I went for this setup during the practice race.

It went quite well for me but I noticed something weird :

My rear tyres pressure is too high. I almost reach 1.90 with 1.30 cold pressure, around 57c track temp, maximum tyres temp: 110C, 101C average and maximum rear brakes temp around 660C (500C average).
So, yeah, I could increase brake ducts but my rear brakes will be too cold then...

GrimeyDog
10-04-2018, 22:35
I spent more time with patch 5 and while Cars handling is Ok Not as Good as it was before the patch... as it is I dont like the Feel of the Soft Slicks at all they are just too sharp/Agressive and over steer way too easy ...Maybe i just Need to spend more time getting used to the cars having what IMO feels like Less High Speed Cornering Grip.... But in any event if this is how they are going to leave it then the Leader Boards should get wiped and Reset because from what i been running lap times are Off by .500 to .750.

I test at Watkins Short and the Bus Stop Chicane and Sweeper turn are Notably Slower due to Less Grip.

ramm21
10-04-2018, 23:49
Sorry about the Porsche screen, I can't seem to delete it although I have tried. The differentials are largely working in my opinion. You were saying that you didn't think they were, so I asked you to try an altered differential to see what you think using a car/track that you have run in the past. You said you don't mess with the tunes much, others do. "But it seems to me that some diff use is overly dramatized." So, I set up a differential to see if you still feel the same after driving it. It's as simple as that.

Okay, I found a couple of vids to show you what I mean. Maybe I'm off with my thinking and I attribute too much of the effects below on diffs, but here is what I'm talking about. Sorry to take this a little off topic, I don't want to turn this into a "how sims are different from real life" or whatever thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxz91nhtsEE
here is a 488 gt3 at spa with telemetry. Just focus on the throttle inputs. He brakes in a straight line, sometimes a little dab of throttle at entry, but largely off throttle though the apex. Pick up a little throttle at the apex, and increase until the car is just about straight, without steering input. Of course the faster corners he picks up throttle earlier because of aero grip. In slow corners he feathers the throttle a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm_6y8rpjTc
Now here is Kryptic TMG's lap. Before I go any further, I want to make it perfectly clear, I have a lot of respect for people taking hours to make tunes and make their cars run fast laps. I realize real life and sims will be very different in the skills required to be fast... But focus on the telemetry once again. Kryptic brakes in a straight line, off throttle on entry, then mash throttle 100% at the apex. There is very little to none throttle modulation, its off/on most of the time. How is that possible? How can you mash the throttle at the apex everytime and have grip on the rear, especially without TC? How does the rear not step out on power everytime you go from 0-100 throttle input at the apex? Maybe its the diffs??? Thats the only thing that makes sense to me. This is what noobs do, use throttle and brake as an on/off switch, but yet it works perfectly in the game as long as you tune your car a certain way.
So when someone said the diffs have been altered, I got a little excited because I was hoping the discrepancy between PC2 and IRL in the scenario that I described above has been reduced. Hopefully that made even a little sense..

hkraft300
11-04-2018, 00:06
My rear tyres pressure is too high. I almost reach 1.90 with 1.30 cold pressure, around 57c track temp, maximum tyres temp: 110C, 101C average and maximum rear brakes temp around 660C (500C average).
So, yeah, I could increase brake ducts but my rear brakes will be too cold then...

I would choose to open rear brake duct more. 500℃ avg is Still pretty high, and cooks quite easily depending on your bias. What you lose from the rear brake duct you'll gain much more in rear tire grip.

AbeWoz
11-04-2018, 00:51
you want your brakes to be around 300C. peaking at 600-700 at the end of the longest brake zone.

sas5320
11-04-2018, 01:13
80 posts with test results and videos, would be helpful to have a blue one with some info what changed because something obviously did. Physics guys used to chat more, like they have a gag order now or something.

blinkngone
11-04-2018, 01:43
Okay, I found a couple of vids to show you what I mean. Maybe I'm off with my thinking and I attribute too much of the effects below on diffs, but here is what I'm talking about. Sorry to take this a little off topic, I don't want to turn this into a "how sims are different from real life" or whatever thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxz91nhtsEE
here is a 488 gt3 at spa with telemetry. Just focus on the throttle inputs. He brakes in a straight line, sometimes a little dab of throttle at entry, but largely off throttle though the apex. Pick up a little throttle at the apex, and increase until the car is just about straight, without steering input. Of course the faster corners he picks up throttle earlier because of aero grip. In slow corners he feathers the throttle a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm_6y8rpjTc
Now here is Kryptic TMG's lap. Before I go any further, I want to make it perfectly clear, I have a lot of respect for people taking hours to make tunes and make their cars run fast laps. I realize real life and sims will be very different in the skills required to be fast... But focus on the telemetry once again. Kryptic brakes in a straight line, off throttle on entry, then mash throttle 100% at the apex. There is very little to none throttle modulation, its off/on most of the time. How is that possible? How can you mash the throttle at the apex everytime and have grip on the rear, especially without TC? How does the rear not step out on power everytime you go from 0-100 throttle input at the apex? Maybe its the diffs??? Thats the only thing that makes sense to me. This is what noobs do, use throttle and brake as an on/off switch, but yet it works perfectly in the game as long as you tune your car a certain way.
So when someone said the diffs have been altered, I got a little excited because I was hoping the discrepancy between PC2 and IRL in the scenario that I described above has been reduced. Hopefully that made even a little sense..

Hi ramm. Well that is a very good post with lots of detail, appreciated. There is a lot of concern that something happened to the differential(LSD) in the 5.0 patch and something obvious you can see now is that the preload can now be adjusted to a negative value(-100) and because at the moment we have limited patch notes to peruse there is no explanation for this change or what the benefits are. Then there are the tire issues with Hards in the GT3s where some people find them impossibly slick with no grip what so ever and others find plenty of grip but have the never ending questions about tire life, temperature and pressure. The slick tire issues that some people are having have pointed back to the differential possibly being messed up which has led to some having to try different things in the LSD just in order to be able to drive at all. I have searched the WMD portal for patch 5.0 runs and I can't find any LSD setup that is anything other than normal, so far, and this includes the Stable Audi LSD at 350 preload and that car drives very easy for me. Not being able to drive your car is not being overly dramatized, it is really frustrating for some people. These people drive in Leagues and their races have already been scheduled so it is important for them to get things sorted out as quickly as possible. Over time I realize I am often wrong. In RL in some GT3 classes they have adjustable TC and ABS they can tune on the fly, yes some of these people are good enough to adjust ABS and brake balance during a lap as well. In this game there are drivers that can do this as well and I was under the impression that the cars GT3 cars in PCars 2 had TC. So either you or I are wrong about TC.

On a lighter note I have a Capri a Silverstone National set up with a ratchet differential if you want to check it out. You can use either my set up or cpcdem's they are the same, he can just drive better.:D

ramm21
11-04-2018, 02:47
Thanks for understanding blinkngone. I work in a physics heavy field so I always have to think about the physics of it all. Just part of being a math guy I guess. Plus I do some track days IRL. Some techniques that make you fast in sims just don't work out like that doing the real thing. I'm still trying to figure out both haha.
Oh and I was assuming Kryptic didn't run TC cuz only the ABS was illuminated on telemetry.

sylekta
11-04-2018, 03:17
@ramm21 you can see kryptics setup at the end of the video, he was running 110 preload and 80 power ramp, he has tuned it that way to let him go hard on the power early and no wheel slip. The disadvantage to that is understeer on corner entry and does not accelerate as quickly.

ironik
11-04-2018, 05:21
I would choose to open rear brake duct more. 500℃ avg is Still pretty high, and cooks quite easily depending on your bias. What you lose from the rear brake duct you'll gain much more in rear tire grip.


you want your brakes to be around 300C. peaking at 600-700 at the end of the longest brake zone.

Yeah, I know that guys. ;)
Actually, the 300C at the end of a long straight was just a rough estimate from Casey. The most important is the peaking temp.
I still think there is something off. It's not normal that one has too decrease brake efficiency to maintain tyre pressure in an acceptable range.

Blinkngone, you should try my Zhuhai setup ^^
Edit: krypticTMG barely use TC. It's on but very high slip angle so that it's almost useless.

sylekta
11-04-2018, 05:51
its turned off completely ironik, in that ferrari spa video at least
you can see on his tacho, only the abs light is displayed

blinkngone
11-04-2018, 10:25
Thanks for understanding blinkngone. I work in a physics heavy field so I always have to think about the physics of it all. Just part of being a math guy I guess. Plus I do some track days IRL. Some techniques that make you fast in sims just don't work out like that doing the real thing. I'm still trying to figure out both haha.
Oh and I was assuming Kryptic didn't run TC cuz only the ABS was illuminated on telemetry.

Hi ramm. It's this communication/understanding stuff.:D I have been using TC to tune my cars in this game and I thought it was working but you just meant Kryptic didn't use his TC. You said you don't tune much and you are correct that for some people the LSDs are set up very good in Default otherwise Suomy wouldn't have all the WRs in GT3 TT at some tracks using Default. Cluck also rarely tunes his cars and there are many others that can embarrass the field using Default. For the majority of us this isn't the case and we need to tune the cars to our abilities and the LSD is one of the areas we find really helps us.

ironik
11-04-2018, 11:04
Hi ramm. It's this communication/understanding stuff.:D I have been using TC to tune my cars in this game and I thought it was working but you just meant Kryptic didn't use his TC. You said you don't tune much and you are correct that for some people the LSDs are set up very good in Default otherwise Suomy wouldn't have all the WRs in GT3 TT at some tracks using Default. Cluck also rarely tunes his cars and there are many others that can embarrass the field using Default. For the majority of us this isn't the case and we need to tune the cars to our abilities and the LSD is one of the areas we find really helps us.

Well... To be fair, the TT are usually not the fastest laptimes you can get around a track.
In our league the top TT times are often beaten in qualification by the top drivers (They usually don't do TT).

blinkngone
11-04-2018, 11:08
Yeah, I know that guys. ;)
Actually, the 300C at the end of a long straight was just a rough estimate from Casey. The most important is the peaking temp.
I still think there is something off. It's not normal that one has too decrease brake efficiency to maintain tyre pressure in an acceptable range.

Blinkngone, you should try my Zhuhai setup ^^
Edit: krypticTMG barely use TC. It's on but very high slip angle so that it's almost useless.

Hi Ironik, I see you have improved your time at Zhuhai, congrats. I checked out your LSD and the power ramp at 65 is the same as I have been using but you are running slightly lower at 20 on the preload. Unfortunately I can't run Zhuhai, I can barely make a lap at National.

blinkngone
11-04-2018, 11:34
Well... To be fair, the TT are usually not the fastest laptimes you can get around a track.
In our league the top TT times are often beaten in qualification by the top drivers (They usually don't do TT).

Dang, it's this communication/understanding stuff all the time now. My understanding of TT is that it is a set of fixed conditions that never change so an unbiased comparison can be made of the driver(s)/setup(s). Not that TT represents the fastest possible laptime for a given track.

Another complaint is that some people don't want to share their tuned setups so they won't do TT. Well this is fine as well but they can run Default if they wanted to participate.

ironik
11-04-2018, 13:51
TT should be almost optimal conditions.
What I'm saying is that the fastest guys don't do TT that much, if not at all.
They do community events more ^^

Edit: for example, dubai int. Fastest Ferrari TT laptime : 1:35,011
Fastest quali tap time : 1:34, 225

Gta tidgney did the same time in quali and in TT. I guess he could improve it again.

rich1e I
11-04-2018, 14:01
Another complaint is that some people don't want to share their tuned setups so they won't do TT. Well this is fine as well but they can run Default if they wanted to participate.

People have found a way to hide their setup on XBox. You can't see the car they used, no tune icon and no ghost.

Renoldo1990
11-04-2018, 14:13
PS4 Leaderboard-Times are also a bit faster nearly each time than the times on PC.
But this is just because most of the 'fast' PC-Guys don't do Time-Trial.
Reason could be that you could 'steal' the PC-TT-Setups, while you can't copy PS4-TT-Setups.

In AOR the Top-Times between PC and PS4 in Qualification are nearly exact same each time.
From my experience so far. Most of the Leaderboard-WR's got beaten by approx 0,5 - 1 Second when AOR-Races there.

ironik
11-04-2018, 14:14
PS4 Leaderboard-Times are also a bit faster nearly each time than the times on PC.
But this is just because most of the 'fast' PC-Guys don't do Time-Trial.
Reason could be that you could 'steal' the PC-TT-Setups, while you can't copy PS4-TT-Setups.

In AOR the Top-Times between PC and PS4 in Qualification are nearly exact same each time.
From my experience so far. Most of the Leaderboard-WR's got beaten by approx 0,5 - 1 Second when AOR-Races there.

Yeah, exactly.
Furthermore, I think that console guys are more prone to share than PC guys ^^

Renoldo1990
11-04-2018, 15:58
Patch just arrived at the PS4.
First things I noticed:

- Lamborghini still feels nice in my "old" setup
- Lap-Time pretty much equal
- In Time-Trial they changed the 'Starting-Tyre-Pressure'. Before Patch 5 you always started with optimum Warm-Pressure. Now you don't start with optimum pressure anymore. Therefore it takes some Laps until you reach your full potential.

Leynad
11-04-2018, 16:59
I did some GT3-races and can't feel a difference since patch 5. One Monza Online-race as well with my old setup for the AMG. On release this cars were a bit too easy to drive IMO, when i remember it correctly. It's more tough since a while now and i like it. But the GTE-cars seems more stable now across the board since patch 5 and a bit too easy for my taste.

I tuned this understeer on entry / oversteer on exit with the new Ferrari by changing the differential and it worked out very well.

demand34
11-04-2018, 19:45
The handling in this game continues to be top once you rework your setups to adapt it to 5.0, but I think developers should be a little more careful with changing things so dramatically, for it may lead tons of users to actual frustration.

I like that you have to warm up your tires better now too before they behave sweet.

Also, accelerated tire wear continues to work as intended on my end. Haven't had an issue with that in 5.0, and wets degrade at the speed of light now btw if you choose this option : - D

I'm sure I will continue to play this game once assetto competizione is out on a daily basis like now. This game is the ultimate racing game, too above anything else. Not to mention street and rallycross physics that, simply put, there's no current competition on the market in that area as of now.

John Hargreaves
11-04-2018, 20:08
The handling in this game continues to be top once you rework your setups to adapt it to 5.0, but I think developers should be a little more careful with changing things so dramatically, for it may lead tons of users to actual frustration.I like that you have to warm up your tires better now too before they behave sweet.

Also, accelerated tire wear continues to work as intended on my end. Haven't had an issue with that in 5.0, and wets degrade at the speed of light now btw if you choose this option : - D

I'm sure I will continue to play this game once assetto competizione is out on a daily basis like now. This game is the ultimate racing game, too above anything else. Not to mention street and rallycross physics that, simply put, there's no current competition on the market in that area as of now.

Most posters in this thread don't seem all that fussed it seems to me, surely pro motorsports teams have to adapt to new tyres quite often anyway if the last few years of F1 is anything to go by, it's all part of the fun.

blankfile
11-04-2018, 20:31
cant seem to find any difference whatsoever using default setup in race

sylekta
11-04-2018, 20:40
- In Time-Trial they changed the 'Starting-Tyre-Pressure'. Before Patch 5 you always started with optimum Warm-Pressure. Now you don't start with optimum pressure anymore. Therefore it takes some Laps until you reach your full potential.

Really? I didnt notice that. Maybe to stop people using cheat TT setups with radiator completely closed? If it takes a couple laps to get your tyres optimal you have to open the radiator or you will overheat


Edit: Apparently I need to make a disclaimer, I am not accusing anyone of cheating. Among my racing buddies we call it cheating when you turn off mechanical failures in a race lobby so you can close your radiator completely thus in TT for a single hotlap where you can currently run a closed radiator safely, we call that a cheat setup.

MaXyM
11-04-2018, 21:08
Most posters in this thread don't seem all that fussed it seems to me, surely pro motorsports teams have to adapt to new tyres quite often anyway if the last few years of F1 is anything to go by, it's all part of the fun.

Indeed. They are getting completely new tires 3 days before GP without single word about incoming change.
Good try, though ;)

davekojo
12-04-2018, 01:46
Indeed. They are getting completely new tires 3 days before GP without even world about incoming change.
Good try, though ;)

2015 Monza after Vettlel's tire blowout at Spa. Minimum tire pressure and minimum camber was increased roughtly 3 days before the GP. This had a dramatic effect on how teams had to setup their cars. They complained about it for the rest of the season.

ironik
12-04-2018, 06:28
2015 Monza after Vettlel's tire blowout at Spa. Minimum tire pressure and minimum camber was increased roughtly 3 days before the GP. This had a dramatic effect on how teams had to setup their cars. They complained about it for the rest of the season.

To be fair, that's not the same problem.
Here we don't know what are the changes. Is it in the differencials? Is it in the tyre models ?
What are these changes exactly (and for my curiosity, why did they change it) ?

My race went well yesterday and it seems that the top drivers in Ferrari are still insanely fast with it ^^

Adapting never has been a problem for me and I'm not complaining about the changes.
I just don't like to be blind like that. :)

davekojo
12-04-2018, 11:54
To be fair, that's not the same problem.
Here we don't know what are the changes. Is it in the differencials? Is it in the tyre models ?
What are these changes exactly (and for my curiosity, why did they change it) ?

My race went well yesterday and it seems that the top drivers in Ferrari are still insanely fast with it ^^

Adapting never has been a problem for me and I'm not complaining about the changes.
I just don't like to be blind like that. :)

I understand the frustration. My comment was more pointing out that similar things actually happen in real life. Knowing what changed doesn't necessarily make finding a solution easier. the most important part is finding a solution that works for "you".

It's more productive to post the trial and error and results than simply complain and hope Jussi or someone from SMS comes to explain. They're probably trying to get the patch approved on consoles.

demand34
12-04-2018, 12:00
To be fair, that's not the same problem.
Here we don't know what are the changes. Is it in the differencials? Is it in the tyre models ?
What are these changes exactly (and for my curiosity, why did they change it) ?

My race went well yesterday and it seems that the top drivers in Ferrari are still insanely fast with it ^^
)Yes the thing with the ferraris and the audis is beginning to get very tiresome regardless the bop changes here and there. The Ferrari continues to get nerfed, but still remains as number 1 in almost every race, and the audi now too.

Trust me everything is much more fun on GTE instead of GT3. GT3 has more cars but the rest feel just like underdogs (bentley, bmw etc) compared to the only 3 actual good ones (Ferrari, audi etc).

Out of all GT categories, GT1 and GTO are the true interesting/fun ones imo. GT3 is not worth anyone's effort that is not using a ferrari or an audi.

ironik
12-04-2018, 13:35
I understand the frustration. My comment was more pointing out that similar things actually happen in real life. Knowing what changed doesn't necessarily make finding a solution easier. the most important part is finding a solution that works for "you".

It's more productive to post the trial and error and results than simply complain and hope Jussi or someone from SMS comes to explain. They're probably trying to get the patch approved on consoles.

Yeah, I know that. Most of us are not really complaining. I'm just trying to understand. It could be a bug rather than an update, for example. ;)


Yes the thing with the ferraris and the audis is beginning to get very tiresome regardless the bop changes here and there. The Ferrari continues to get nerfed, but still remains as number 1 in almost every race, and the audi now too.

Trust me everything is much more fun on GTE instead of GT3. GT3 has more cars but the rest feel just like underdogs (bentley, bmw etc) compared to the only 3 actual good ones (Ferrari, audi etc).

Out of all GT categories, GT1 and GTO are the true interesting/fun ones imo. GT3 is not worth anyone's effort that is not using a ferrari or an audi.

You're a bit extreme I think ;)
GT3 is very fun and I'm enjoy the Renault a lot.
The AMG seems to be very fast too now.

I'll test all the cars for the next AOR season I guess. ^^

rich1e I
12-04-2018, 13:51
Yes the thing with the ferraris and the audis is beginning to get very tiresome regardless the bop changes here and there. The Ferrari continues to get nerfed, but still remains as number 1 in almost every race, and the audi now too.

Trust me everything is much more fun on GTE instead of GT3. GT3 has more cars but the rest feel just like underdogs (bentley, bmw etc) compared to the only 3 actual good ones (Ferrari, audi etc).

Out of all GT categories, GT1 and GTO are the true interesting/fun ones imo. GT3 is not worth anyone's effort that is not using a ferrari or an audi.

Not sure what you mean by 'the Audi now too' because I can't remember that it was on the list of cars that got BoPed. Also, the BMW is actually one of the strongest cars. The underdogs got buffed, the OP car got nerfed so I think the class should be more balanced now.
GT1 and GTO are among the most unbalanced classes imo.

APR193
12-04-2018, 14:20
GT1 and GTO are fine as they are imo. I wouldn't want older classes to be bopd too much. Anything still racing can be bopd until its right, anything that isn't still racing should be as accurate as possible to each individual car. If that means (slightly) unbalanced classes then so be it.

Fight-Test
12-04-2018, 14:42
Not sure what you mean by 'the Audi now too' because I can't remember that it was on the list of cars that got BoPed. Also, the BMW is actually one of the strongest cars. The underdogs got buffed, the OP car got nerfed so I think the class should be more balanced now.
GT1 and GTO are among the most unbalanced classes imo.

Agree. BMW, Ferrari, Audi, Lambo and AMG can all hang with each other. Possibly more since patch but so far those are at the top.

demand34
12-04-2018, 14:42
You're a bit extreme I think ;)
GT3 is very fun and I'm enjoy the Renault a lot.
yes it is very fun when you use competitive cars xD

rich1e I
12-04-2018, 16:29
GT1 and GTO are fine as they are imo. I wouldn't want older classes to be bopd too much. Anything still racing can be bopd until its right, anything that isn't still racing should be as accurate as possible to each individual car. If that means (slightly) unbalanced classes then so be it.


Ok but these classes can only be raced as spec races, at least online. As soon as you have one dominant car that destroys any other car in that class the class is ruined.

Echo_29
12-04-2018, 17:23
The best handling of GT3 cars for me was when the game first launched, should of just left it as it is and just did BOP changes.

sas5320
12-04-2018, 17:56
Stability? Where's the fun in that? ;)

rich1e I
12-04-2018, 18:25
If you feel there's a lack of stability you clearly need to work on your setup :p

Btw. patch 5 hit our Xboxes today and I couldn't notice any change in tyres behavior whatsoever. The Bentley seems to have better acceleration now but my first impression is it still isn't very competitive. Need to test more, but no oversteer no need to tweak preload settings etc.

APR193
12-04-2018, 18:49
I could definitely tell the difference but its not a bad thing. Just feels like hard tyres are harder (if it is that simple/even the case). I always struggle to get hard rears to work properly anyway except for in exceptional hot conditions, I work the fronts much more than I should be in return though. Hard fronts + soft rears = cars feel awesome. Braking feels a lot better now too, can really be confident in putting the car where I want it.

CodeCmdr
12-04-2018, 19:17
I was able to easily control the BMW Z4 GT3 car with the stable setup in the last version (4), but since version 5 I keep sliding around like crazy with it. It's extremely hard for me now to drive clean laps consistently. :(

rich1e I
12-04-2018, 19:28
I was able to easily control the BMW Z4 GT3 car with the stable setup in the last version (4), but since version 5 I keep sliding around like crazy with it. It's extremely hard for me now to drive clean laps consistently. :(

I just did a few laps with the Ferrari Challenge on the new dynamic Porsche track and a few laps with the Bentley. Definitely need to test more to be able to say something definitive.

Fight-Test
12-04-2018, 19:36
I was able to easily control the BMW Z4 GT3 car with the stable setup in the last version (4), but since version 5 I keep sliding around like crazy with it. It's extremely hard for me now to drive clean laps consistently. :(

Try a new tune from scratch if you haven't. It helped on PC for some, especially in GT3.

rich1e I
12-04-2018, 19:49
Try a new tune from scratch if you haven't. It helped on PC for some, especially in GT3.

That's what I did straight away before testing the Bentley. Deleted my setups and created a new one even if I don't know if it's necessary on consoles.

APR193
12-04-2018, 20:07
I didn't delete any setups any haven't got any issues

blinkngone
12-04-2018, 20:11
I didn't delete any setups any haven't got any issues


Which GT3 cars are you running?

APR193
12-04-2018, 20:33
Which GT3 cars are you running?

Tested the Aston, Lambo and Bentley quickly this evening. No issues wiith those running my loose setups (very close to defaults)

chickano
12-04-2018, 21:05
so far so good for me and fingers crossed. I have many set ups for the Audi R8 GT3 sfor league racing and initial tests at Zuhai and Zolder are ok. Car oversteer more on corner entry but i tune it out with diff coast ramp easily. tyres not sure yet about differences need to analyse more so will run some laps at long beach that i know well and can be consistently good pace

ironik
12-04-2018, 21:25
I could definitely tell the difference but its not a bad thing. Just feels like hard tyres are harder (if it is that simple/even the case). I always struggle to get hard rears to work properly anyway except for in exceptional hot conditions, I work the fronts much more than I should be in return though. Hard fronts + soft rears = cars feel awesome. Braking feels a lot better now too, can really be confident in putting the car where I want it.

Mixing hards and softs in normal racing conditions sounds off to me.


yes it is very fun when you use competitive cars xD

I 'm using it since patch 3 and it was already fun. ;)

blinkngone
13-04-2018, 00:04
Tested the Aston, Lambo and Bentley quickly this evening. No issues wiith those running my loose setups (very close to defaults)

Thanks, if you have time could you check out the Ferrari?

Nevermind.

Well, another case of theory meeting reality. Theory, GT3 cars are having issues since the 5.0 Patch, Reality, Suomy has just blown up the leaderboard at Dubai Autodrome GP, even the Ferrari he managed to put 0.199 on the unpatched record from October. He usually goes in alphabetical order, he's down to the 650 S. Maybe he will stop, go eat something or go to bed.

EDIT, he used a tuned setup on the Ferrari, the rest were Default.

EDIT again. Dang, I was expecting to find a 20 or maybe even a negative number for preload.
Suomy's LSD.
252948

APR193
13-04-2018, 07:37
Mixing hards and softs in normal racing conditions sounds off to me.

Perhaps so, I certainly don't know of it happening in real life (in car racing at least, its very common on two wheels), or if its even allowed in most real life series', but it works for me.

demand34
13-04-2018, 07:42
The Ferrari on default loose continues to be the ultimate laugh compared to others, even after 5.0. The car is sooo godly in all areas without tuning that It is not strange at all that the ladies won't put any effort effort at all in trying in other GT3 cars, let alone trying to make them competitive by tuning them roughly.

hkraft300
14-04-2018, 03:38
Drove the M6 GT3, C7R etc for ~15 laps each last night.
Soft tires are about the same. Hard tires don't heat up the same as soft tires. same setup/conditions sector 2 spa soft tires were getting to 95℃ the hard tires getting to 85℃). Although I was about 3 seconds slower in hard tires (40℃ track). 2:22 vs 2:25.
I don't know if the hard tires start to grip at higher temps but they just felt slippery the whole time, from 40℃ to 80℃. I had them up at 1.82-1.85 bar all round.
It's not just sliding at the back, it's sliding at the front too. Diff isn't broken, it still is effective, but it's not the problem.
Diff can't bring back the grip the hard tires have lost.

Before patch 5 at 35-40℃ track temp I could do 2:22 in hard and soft tires (hard tires I'd have to push, soft tires I'd have to manage) consistently over 10+ laps.

demand34
14-04-2018, 06:23
yup the problem is in the hard tires. Slippery unlike anything else seen before.

I had a Lambo Huracan super trofeo race at Algarve with a track temp of 52C (hards all the way, right baby?), and they were still so slippery regardless they were at 90-100-117C...

I guess we can conclude that hard tires got messed up in 5.0. You can not use them even on very hot summer track temps, to put it simply.

hkraft300
14-04-2018, 06:46
Do they have more grip than soft tires at >100℃?
If so, then you just have to drive a bit slower and use hard tires.
Because over 100℃ the soft tires are terrible.

Cholton82
14-04-2018, 07:20
I just raced at Fuji in the Acura GT3 which I have been using in my career and I have to say that it felt good still with the stable setup and a few tweaks with hard tyres . Track temp was around 30 degrees and the car behaved itself as it has throughout all races I used pre patch 5 . Maybe a little more rear end activity coming out of turn 3 but very driveable throughout the 50 minute race.

Pekka Salminen
14-04-2018, 07:22
The softs are poor in lower temps as well (80-90C), if a track has many long sweeping corners. In the sweepers, the tire surface might get to over 100C while carcass remains at lower temp.

The hard tires are not useless if they can be kept at over 80-85C, they are just harder to drive than softs. TBH, I found the hards quite drivable even when little bit cold with Porsche. The car was slippery, but easy to correct and pretty fast. The high track temp was a factor in that, though.

demand34
14-04-2018, 07:37
Do they have more grip than soft tires at >100℃?
If so, then you just have to drive a bit slower and use hard tires.
Because over 100℃ the soft tires are terrible.No, that's the point. I still have to find an excuse to not using softs at any time even on 40C track temps. Softs still behaving good at 100C and even 110C btw.

I thought the example i used with Algarve (tire destroyer track), on a 52C track temp, hard tires and the car still slippery was hardcore enough : - D.

There's no reason to use hard tires at all in this patch. I think I've tried them enough already and under most tracl conditions. They are useless, and I think the people not having much trouble on hards are all using stable setups. Hards on loose setups will make you loose in order of 3 seconds anytime regardless track temps. Wheel user here btw

Regarding tires, we are in a kinda similar status to PC1, in which we were all using soft tires all day long on GT cars because mids and hards were downright useless, even on summer track temps.

ironik
14-04-2018, 08:39
Drove the M6 GT3, C7R etc for ~15 laps each last night.
Soft tires are about the same. Hard tires don't heat up the same as soft tires. same setup/conditions sector 2 spa soft tires were getting to 95℃ the hard tires getting to 85℃). Although I was about 3 seconds slower in hard tires (40℃ track). 2:22 vs 2:25.
I don't know if the hard tires start to grip at higher temps but they just felt slippery the whole time, from 40℃ to 80℃. I had them up at 1.82-1.85 bar all round.

What cold pressure did you use?
Above 1.80 for a temp under 90C seems pretty high already.

Pekka Salminen
14-04-2018, 09:01
No, that's the point. I still have to find an excuse to not using softs at any time even on 40C track temps. Softs still behaving good at 100C and even 110C btw.

I thought the example i used with Algarve (tire destroyer track), on a 52C track temp, hard tires and the car still slippery was hardcore enough : - D.

There's no reason to use hard tires at all in this patch. I think I've tried them enough already and under most tracl conditions. They are useless, and I think the people not having much trouble on hards are all using stable setups. Hards on loose setups will make you loose in order of 3 seconds anytime regardless track temps. Wheel user here btw

Regarding tires, we are in a kinda similar status to PC1, in which we were all using soft tires all day long on GT cars because mids and hards were downright useless, even on summer track temps.

I haven't had too much testing after patch 5, but the hards are definitely faster in Long Beach and Zhuhai in TT with Porsche, so I wouldn't go as far as saying they are useless. Same thing with the first AOR league race after the patch 5 at Zhuhai: the hards were the only option for me. They even got better when the sun began to set towards evening, as the slightly overheated rears cooled down a bit. The track temp was high at the start, but on the other hand Zhuhai is not the most demanding track to the tires.

Running hards were not a Porsche only thing either :) : https://youtu.be/Dbam1O6nvlQ?t=23m53s

And I'm talking about the fastest tier of the league, so we should know, what tire choices are the best.

Atak Kat
14-04-2018, 09:11
EDIT: IGNORE THIS - I was using an old setup from patch 4. Suggest to delete your setups and start over. See my later comment in this thread.

I did a couple online races with the gt3 porsche today at red bull. 30 ambient,41 track temp.
On softs.
Fronts were fine.
But after about 3 laps I could not keep the rear tire temps down. They would get to high 90s and then it was game over. Over 100 and my i could barely hold the corners even being super gentle on the gas.
I tried also with hard tires on the rear, and this was even worse, I could not get the temps up here and in the end it was even worse for me.

I guess more testing, but personally, I'm really struggling so far...

Daz555
14-04-2018, 09:16
Patch 5 on PS4.
The update has broken the tyres on The GTO Mustang Transam. Soft and hards hit 50% wear at only 9 or 10 laps at Indy oval and it causes the wheel to have constant vibration like riding over the curb along all of the the straights. Ruined our league race a couple of nights ago as no-one wants to trash their wheel running laps like that, nor changing tyres every 10 laps in an 80 lap race. Before the update the tyres were good for 30 or more laps and you could stretch them to 40 and at no point did the tyres want to burn out your wheel. We discovered the problem during practice and by racetime most players had decided to turn their gain down to zero in order to work around the issue.... Which of course disables force feedback.

Also cars were more drivable when at 0% tread on the right front and right rear than when they were fresh.

Soft and hard slicks broken. Wets seem unaffected. We repeated the issues at Texas also. Both hard and soft trashed after 12 laps and by lap 15 constant jarring vibrations when driving on the straights. Constant jarring vibrations when travelling as slowly as 10mph as well.

ironik
14-04-2018, 09:26
I haven't had too much testing after patch 5, but the hards are definitely faster in Long Beach and Zhuhai in TT with Porsche, so I wouldn't go as far as saying they are useless. Same thing with the first AOR league race after the patch 5 at Zhuhai: the hards were the only option for me. They even got better when the sun began to set towards evening, as the slightly overheated rears cooled down a bit. The track temp was high at the start, but on the other hand Zhuhai is not the most demanding track to the tires.

Running hards were not a Porsche only thing either :) : https://youtu.be/Dbam1O6nvlQ?t=23m53s

And I'm talking about the fastest tier of the league, so we should know, what tire choices are the best.

Yeah same thing for me around Zhuhai!
But! I think there is a problem with the pressure, not really the temps.
My rear left was around 107C but the pressure around 1.87 bar with 1.30 cold pressure.(and I increased the rear brake ducts already ).
My laptimes decreased with the pressure decreasing / temp decreasing.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the behavior of the hards tyres looks like they are over inflated.

Pekka Salminen
14-04-2018, 09:36
Yeah same thing for me around Zhuhai!
But! I think there is a problem with the pressure, not really the temps.
My rear left was around 107C but the pressure around 1.87 bar with 1.30 cold pressure.(and I increased the rear brake ducts already ).
My laptimes decreased with the pressure decreasing / temp decreasing.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the behavior of the hards tyres looks like they are over inflated.

By laptimes increasing, do you mean that they were getting better as the tires got to better operating temps and pressures? But yes, the tire pressure behaviour might have been changed in Patch 5. Perhaps lower than 1.8 bar is better for hards now? I thought the hard tires felt surprisingly good when cold (around 60C front 70C rear shortly after exiting pits in quali), but what if it was because the pressures were still down only at 1.65-1.7 bar...

ironik
14-04-2018, 09:54
By laptimes increasing, do you mean that they were getting better as the tires got to better operating temps and pressures? But yes, the tire pressure behaviour might have been changed in Patch 5. Perhaps lower than 1.8 bar is better for hards now? I thought the hard tires felt surprisingly good when cold (around 60C front 70C rear shortly after exiting pits in quali), but what if it was because the pressures were still down only at 1.65-1.7 bar...

Yeah sorry laptimes decreased, or got better haha.

Ha! At least someone feeling the same things than me.
I do find the hards are better when cold than in patch 4, that's for sure.
The problem with this is that in higher temps, the pressure are increasing too much, even with lowest cold pressure.
And this explains very well the tyres behavior. A bit twitchy, less grippy but easily manageable.

hkraft300
14-04-2018, 09:59
What cold pressure did you use?
Above 1.80 for a temp under 90C seems pretty high already.

~1.45 bar from memory. I close the brake ducts to keep some heat in them and pump up the tires a bit.
I'll have to try lower tire pressure on hard tires at a hotter track see what happens.
So far since 5 I haven't races anything >40℃ track.

Can't say hards are useless still. Slower, yes but more consistent at high temps. Soft tires just melt and let go.

ironik
14-04-2018, 10:06
~1.45 bar from memory. I close the brake ducts to keep some heat in them and pump up the tires a bit.
I'll have to try lower tire pressure on hard tires at a hotter track see what happens.
So far since 5 I haven't races anything >40℃ track.

Can't say hards are useless still. Slower, yes but more consistent at high temps. Soft tires just melt and let go.

That would be around 1.70 with 1.30 cold pressure, for a tyre that is not up to temp... Seems too high for me.

demand34
14-04-2018, 10:10
I haven't had too much testing after patch 5, but the hards are definitely faster in Long Beach and Zhuhai in TT with Porsche, so I wouldn't go as far as saying they are useless. Same thing with the first AOR league race after the patch 5 at Zhuhai: the hards were the only option for me. They even got better when the sun began to set towards evening, as the slightly overheated rears cooled down a bit. The track temp was high at the start, but on the other hand Zhuhai is not the most demanding track to the tires.

Running hards were not a Porsche only thing either :) : https://youtu.be/Dbam1O6nvlQ?t=23m53s

And I'm talking about the fastest tier of the league, so we should know, what tire choices are the best.The Porche handles different to the rest on hards, more like prepatch.

Either it wasn't affected by the changes, or has something to do with the engine position or something that renders it impervious to the changes on the hards.

ironik
14-04-2018, 10:14
The video shows the Audi though.
I drove the Renault and hards was the only choice too.

demand34
14-04-2018, 10:18
The problem with this is that in higher temps, the pressure are increasing too much, even with lowest cold pressure.
And this explains very well the tyres behavior. A bit twitchy, less grippy but easily manageable.You might have been closing brake ducts too much depending on the track and the ambient temperature. When i go with more open ducts on cars with long straights where the softs can cool down even more, front tires tend to stay on reasonable 1.70-1'80bar.

hkraft300
14-04-2018, 10:20
That would be around 1.70 with 1.30 cold pressure, for a tyre that is not up to temp... Seems too high for me.

Well I was at spa.
Anyway, I'll have to try a lower pressure and see if it improves.

ironik
14-04-2018, 10:25
You might have been closing brake ducts too much depending on the track and the ambient temperature. When i go with more open ducts on cars with long straights where the softs can cool down even more, front tires tend to stay on reasonable 1.70-1'80bar.

Brake ducts are meant to tune the brake temp, not the tyre pressure. So even if it's working it sounds off to me.

demand34
14-04-2018, 10:46
As the tire temp increases so does the pressure. Open your brake ducts if you don't want high pressures, specially on hot ambient.

Bultaco85
14-04-2018, 10:58
Having tried it out with the Huracan GT3 at Zolder, defenitely tire model is MUCH improved and more realistic.

Now i can get the rear togo where i want and there isnt the constant understeery feeling i had with the last patch.
I didnt touch set-up nor tire pressures, and im only a bit slower that before, maybe 0.6s, but im adapting. Now i feel that I control the car and that if i do an oversteery set-up as i like, tires will behave accordingly.

Just wanted to leave my opinion because i see people complaining when things are actually better that before. Also, it got this feel like Assetto Corsa, where you have to be really careful with your imputs, just that PCARS does it better and with more depth. Chassis movements are also less rigid.

Im really liking it.

Atak Kat
14-04-2018, 12:28
Some things I learned after some testing today.

First of all, please ignore my last comments (I will edit my post) because I did a stupid thing by using my old patch 4 setup, before the patch 5. Then I remembered that we should delete them...

So I decided to start over, and below is a summary of what I saw after 50 laps of free practice. All the same session. Red bull ring, June, 40C track temp, 31C ambient, clear/sunny. Fuel load in the default starts about 52L (ranges of laps below are estimated, but pretty sure they are +/- 1 or 2 laps)
Edit: Car is the GT3 Porsche

Consider that I'm not on the top of the leader-boards. Intermediate, at best.

Laps 1- 10 - just using the default stable SMS setup. Tires were automatic (hards). I only changed the steering ratio to 9.5:1
- handling was much better (than my previous post), I didn't have problems with the rear-end like before.
- hard tires were fine. Manageable, and I didn't have big problems (like before)
- best lap times I could achieve though were about 1:33.5. (ok, not heroic, but at least it was reasonably stable and consistent)
- pressures were pretty stable around 1.8, and temps were high 80s. Struggled to get them into the 90s.

Laps 11-20 - refuel, same default setup but I just change the tires to softs. No other changes.
- pretty quickly, I was doing 1:32.5s, so about 1 second faster over the hards
- temps reached low 90s, but never any problems.
- pressures fine as well.

Laps 21-30 - refuel, and did some setup adjustments. Kept the softs, but reduced the tire pressures just slightly (front 1.4, rear 1.33), took a bit of rear downforce off (6), softened the front suspension/arb and tightened up the rear. Increased the engine braking to 7, adjusted the diff to preload 80, power 60, coast 40.
- within a few laps I was doing 1:31.5 quite consistently, and my best lap was 1:31.0. I'm sure I could reach 1:30 with some more setup adjustments. Which would be pretty good for me around RBR.
- I tried like hell to cook the rear tires, but the max I saw was in the high 90s. Running 1:31.5s the temps stayed in the low 90s without much issue.

Laps 31-40 - didn't stop, just kept going
- Here I noticed a very clear fall of in the tire grip (so, after about 10 laps of running). Never to the point of having the rear end lose control like I used to see in patch 4 though. The car was still quite stable, and I never once lost control. But the grip wasn't the same and you could definitely feel it in the ffb as well.
- My laps times degraded here to be around 1:32.5 pretty quickly. So about 1s worse than the first 10 laps.
- they kept getting worse, and reached around 1:33.5 eventually.
- Temps stayed in the low 90s. No issue there. Pressures stayed around 1.8. No real issue with pressures.
- Even though my tires were clearly degrading, the graphic was almost fully green. It had dropped a little bit, but it was at least showing 90% tire-life (estimated).
- Other thing was the comparison to my fastest lap (1:31.0). I was easily able to keep the same pace in S1(vs. fastest lap), but S2 and S3 is where I would lose all the time vs. fastest lap. Which can make sense since S2/S3 is where the higher speed corners are.

Laps 41-50 - kept going.
- here an interesting thing happened because my fuel load started to come down. Around 20L remaining, I saw my lap times start to improve again.
- lap times improved to about 1:33, and I even had a 1:32.5.In any case, they were better than the previous 10 laps.
- everything else was pretty stable. Temps stayed in the high 80s or low 90s. Pressure never departed much from 1.8.
- car was well drivable and able to be controlled. No issues with the rear end completely losing grip like I used to see in patch 4....There's simply no way I could have done these 30 laps in patch 4. Anything past 10 was a lost cause.


I didn't try to do any longer runs with the hards. By this time, I was a bit tired (pun intended) of RBR....

Maybe it's helpful for others. If you are using your old setups, that clearly was a big problem in my first experience.... Try to start over...

hkraft300
14-04-2018, 13:36
I used my same patch 3/4 tunes. Even tried the same tunes soft and hard tire back to back.
I found the hards much more slippery and slower. Initial impressions still. Haven't quite dedicated any time to working the hard tires yet.

They're fun though.

demand34
14-04-2018, 14:01
Looks like those who ain't finding hards too slippery are on stable setups, as expected.

Zaskarspants
14-04-2018, 14:31
I use loose set ups and compared the softs to hards at Oulton park long with the ginetta GT3.
Summer evening, clear, track 37c. Assists off. Default loose.

Softs and hards felt very similar at first but after 5 laps the softs got hot, 105c plus, lost grip.
Hard tyres were consistent in their grip level.

Will see if I can repeat in winter.

ironik
14-04-2018, 14:43
As the tire temp increases so does the pressure. Open your brake ducts if you don't want high pressures, specially on hot ambient.

The ducts are meant to adjust brake temp. Not tyre pressure.
My pressure could be in the good range if I could go under 1.30 cold pressure.

hkraft300
14-04-2018, 15:24
The ducts are meant to adjust brake temp. Not tyre pressure.
My pressure could be in the good range if I could go under 1.30 cold pressure.

It does both.
Hot brake heat radiates through the rim to the air inside the tire.
More heat = more pressure.

I use the brake ducts to aid in pressure control. Even adjusting brake bias mid race will affect your tire pressure.


Looks like those who ain't finding hards too slippery are on stable setups, as expected.

Maybe you need to try that stable default yourself. Don’t be scared :p

ironik
14-04-2018, 15:31
It does both.
Hot brake heat radiates through the rim to the air inside the tire.
More heat = more pressure.

I use the brake ducts to aid in pressure control. Even adjusting brake bias mid race will affect your tire pressure.



Maybe you need to try that stable default yourself. Don’t be scared :p

Yeah I know that but brake ducts are here to increase or decrease brake temp so that they're at the optimal temp. (peaking under 750C, maximum braking power around 600-650C)
The impact on tyre pressure is a side effect.
If you can't have optimal braking temp AND optimal tyre pressure in normal racing conditions, there is something off IMO.
I don't remember having that king of problem in patch 4. Especially, with normal tyres temp (not extreme I mean).

It's like, not going full throttle and short shifting so that engine temp is not raising too much.

Atak Kat
14-04-2018, 15:55
I used my same patch 3/4 tunes. Even tried the same tunes soft and hard tire back to back.
I found the hards much more slippery and slower. Initial impressions still. Haven't quite dedicated any time to working the hard tires yet.

They're fun though.

Good drifting practice....

hkraft300
14-04-2018, 16:04
Yeah I know that but brake ducts are here to increase or decrease brake temp so that they're at the optimal temp. (peaking under 750C, maximum braking power around 600-650C)
The impact on tyre pressure is a side effect.
If you can't have optimal braking temp AND optimal tyre pressure in normal racing conditions, there is something off IMO.
I don't remember having that king of problem in patch 4. Especially, with normal tyres temp (not extreme I mean).

It's like, not going full throttle and short shifting so that engine temp is not raising too much.

Meh
As long as the brakes are in the zone 250-700c I’m good. I’m not a super hard, late on the brakes.

It’s a compromise. I choose to compromise my brake efficiency and drag very slightly, for the gains I get by having my tire pressures in the zone.


Good drifting practice....

Oh Definitely fun and entertaining.
It’s not a matter of mash the brakes, yank the wheel and gas out every corner.

Pekka Salminen
14-04-2018, 16:28
It doesn't matter that much if your brakes are little out of optimal temperature range, as the brakes in all GT3 cars I have tried will trigger ABS anyways with less than 100% brake pressure. It might even help treshold braking, if the brakes have slightly less friction. But I agree that allowing lower cold pressures would be helpful.

Bultaco85
14-04-2018, 18:14
They are more slippery but that is good, i became faster, because i like oversteer.

ironik
18-04-2018, 07:41
Anyone has some LSS with this update ?
I did a practice race yesterday and it was awful. I had at least 3 or 4 unrecoverable spins.
I'm usually driving oversteery setups by the way but these slides are not normal IMO : The car barely took any angle and the FFB told me nothing, yet, I was sliding and when I realized I was sliding, there were nothing I could do.

I don't know if it's physics related or setup related though ... But I had these in both sides so ...

Any comment / idea ?

demand34
18-04-2018, 07:56
There's definitely something very wrong with this update.

And the pirelli slicks for track day cars or the Ferrari challenge..., omg they can not get any worse. There's real pilots that have driven the car saying the PC2 car behaves like nothing of its real life counterpart in other forums, and man they have to be right. This car is a bad driving. Because of pirelli slicks, just "slicks"?, probably.

Renoldo1990
18-04-2018, 08:05
Any comment / idea ?

Soft or Hards?

I have to run the soft for the upcoming race and it's the exact opposite to what you mentioned.
It's ultra understeery. So much that I can barely come through T1 and T2.

hkraft300
18-04-2018, 08:31
Anyone has some LSS with this update ?
I did a practice race yesterday and it was awful. I had at least 3 or 4 unrecoverable spins.
I'm usually driving oversteery setups by the way but these slides are not normal IMO : The car barely took any angle and the FFB told me nothing, yet, I was sliding and when I realized I was sliding, there were nothing I could do.

I don't know if it's physics related or setup related though ... But I had these in both sides so ...

Any comment / idea ?

I had 8% front spring bias on the M6 with my patch 3/4 setup and it handled fine. With patch 5 on hard tires it's too loose but ok on soft tires while they're not cooked.
I'm having to set the car up for less oversteer, like 12-15% front spring bias.

ironik
18-04-2018, 08:48
Soft or Hards?

I have to run the soft for the upcoming race and it's the exact opposite to what you mentioned.
It's ultra understeery. So much that I can barely come through T1 and T2.



I had 8% front spring bias on the M6 with my patch 3/4 setup and it handled fine. With patch 5 on hard tires it's too loose but ok on soft tires while they're not cooked.
I'm having to set the car up for less oversteer, like 12-15% front spring bias.

Softs ... But really, it's not usual oversteer IMO... So weird.

EDIT : First two clips are these weird spins and the others clips are usual oversteers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo8u_VQTcnA

demand34
18-04-2018, 10:56
Problem is with the hards not with the softs. Softs are perfectly fine as they are right now imho.

ironik
18-04-2018, 12:03
Problem is with the hards not with the softs. Softs are perfectly fine as they are right now imho.

Softs tyres have been updated too it seems so, if there is a problem with Hards, it could be true with softs too but less noticeable.

Still, I don't explain the spins I recorded, especially the 2nd one where I was already "spinning" since the initial turn in but didn't notice anything. I even applied more steering at one point whereas I should have countersteered I guess.
I remember very well the feeling I had : It's like I was on a very slippery surface, 4 tyres sliding, with almost no FFB.

MrA2theK
18-04-2018, 12:49
Yes Ironik I am noticing some weird behaviour with the new slick tyre model also. Much like you describe there, all 4 wheels sliding and hardly any FFB.

But it is inconsistent!

hkraft300
18-04-2018, 13:00
Yes Ironik I am noticing some weird behaviour with the new slick tyre model also. Much like you describe there, all 4 wheels sliding and hardly any FFB.

But it is inconsistent!

I'm finding the hard tires consistently slippery :)

+1 for your setup. Mine's a DIY rig too!

demand34
18-04-2018, 13:10
Softs tyres have been updated too it seems so, if there is a problem with Hards, it could be true with softs too but less noticeable.

Still, I don't explain the spins I recorded, especially the 2nd one where I was already "spinning" since the initial turn in but didn't notice anything. I even applied more steering at one point whereas I should have countersteered I guess.
are you properly reloading your setups at any time?, also if you have then saved par track individually, make sure you check the last one in the list not the first, and after that of course revise it entirely in race day.

Softs are fine as of now I wouldn't even touched then anymore but reduce a little bit again the track temp usability range, I mean lower than before, but not patch 2.0 extremes which was honestly kind of a weird design decision but reather more like some basic experiment with the tire code.

Hards need to go back 2.0 days behaviour. That was heaven, and now with these softs for cold tarmac days on winter and Autum the game would be already perfect GT racing wise.

"Problem" with these 5.0 hards is that the track needs to be above 45 or so in order to make some sense mounting them for longer steams. And even then they will still show very bad character when flooring it like a champ, unless you set your TC setting below 0.9, which is laughable setting for snow only or downpour tours.

On the other hand, I actually like how the tire pressure works now and find it like the real thing could be, sopmething I've seen yougetting hot at heh.You close your airducts too much on some particular circumstances, and you cook your tires with very hot high pressures now, even hards if track temp is 50C or so. Love it, and helps for extra tuning time enjoying the thing Project Cars 2 allows compared to anything else there. Tuning is a joy in PC2, and then the consequences and what comes next : love, regardless it usually ends in disaster after 10 laps or so haha

Damn slicks. Love street tire model in this game xD

And yes FFB seems worse in 5.0, at least on t300, but FFB is not the same as physics to me.

Fight-Test
18-04-2018, 13:23
are you properly reloading your setups at any time?, also if you have then saved par track individually, make sure you check the last one in the list not the first, and after that of course revise it entirely in race day.

Softs are fine as of now I wouldn't even touched then anymore but reduce a little bit again the track temp usability range, I mean lower than before, but not patch 2.0 extremes which was honestly kind of a weird design decision but reather more like some basic experiment with the tire code.

Hards need to go back 2.0 days behaviour. That was heaven, and now with these softs for cold tarmac days on winter and Autum the game would be already perfect GT racing wise.

"Problem" with these 5.0 hards is that the track needs to be above 45 or so in order to make some sense mounting them for longer steams. And even then they will still show very bad character when flooring it like a champ, unless you set your TC setting below 0.9, which is laughable setting for snow only or downpour tours.

On the other hand, I actually like how the tire pressure works now and find it like the real thing could be, sopmething I've seen yougetting hot at heh.You close your airducts too much on some particular circumstances, and you cook your tires with very hot high pressures now, even hards if track temp is 50C or so. Love it, and helps for extra tuning time enjoying the thing Project Cars 2 allows compared to anything else there. Tuning is a joy in PC2, and then the consequences and what comes next : love, regardless it usually ends in disaster after 10 laps or so haha

Damn slicks. Love street tire model in this game xD

And yes FFB seems worse in 5.0, at least on t300, but FFB is not the same as physics to me.

No problem running hards. Im not seeing what you are at all. Hards unless it's less than 20 celcius for gte. No body is running softs above this unless your running 5 to 8 laps sprints. I laid down a top five and top ten in tt yesterday just to enter times for a league and that was hard tires and didn't do more than 3 laps at each track. Softs we're destroyed in two laps at Silverstone. Useless. Maybe your not pushing enough. I can see what tires everyone runs and not seeing softs but we run 10 lap hoppers at the minimum and I will see some softs in quali but not race unless it's short.

I think the tires are the best yet. You have to manage your driving now to control heat and wear. Before just get pressures right and drive like hell. I'm not seeing anything close to what your reporting.

Pekka Salminen
18-04-2018, 13:40
It depends on track, Silverstone is pretty hard on tires, so even hards will heat up pretty nicely. Imo the usable temperature range for hards could be widened a bit though, to make them more usable in a little bit colder temps. Now there might be a bit of a gap for some cars, at least for Porsche (but it might be due to engine layout).

Fight-Test
18-04-2018, 13:51
They are hard to keep to temp once you hit 20celcius. I normally am at 1.3 bar cold in these temps which is minimum.

cpcdem
18-04-2018, 13:56
No problem running hards. Im not seeing what you are at all. Hards unless it's less than 20 celcius for gte. No body is running softs above this unless your running 5 to 8 laps sprints.

After patch 5, GTE and GT3 are completely different (at least tire-wise). Maybe you are just talking about GTE always and others (who face problems) talk about GT3?

Fight-Test
18-04-2018, 14:05
Could be, I've been mostly in gte. I will say I was faster in gt3 post patch in Merc and lambo which are only two I tried. I only ran hards with no probs. I did have the slick rears but deleted tunes and was good for me after. I would have to test the gt3 tires more to be certain of ranges. I just keep reading gt tires but you might be correct it's gt3 only issue.

rich1e I
18-04-2018, 14:15
Softs ... But really, it's not usual oversteer IMO... So weird.

EDIT : First two clips are these weird spins and the others clips are usual oversteers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo8u_VQTcnA

Indeed very weird spins. Reminds me a little bit of some strange AC physics behavior. Once you lost the back end there was no way you could catch the slide in some cases, just as an animation started you couldn't stop. The tyre just falls over with an instant complete loss of grip.
I really have no idea what the issues are. Maybe it's all related to the supposed livetrack 3.0 issues. It's a mystery to me.

Renoldo1990
18-04-2018, 14:57
Maybe it's all related to the supposed livetrack 3.0 issues. It's a mystery to me.

I'd love an option to turn this feature off in the settings.
Livetrack is a brilliant Idea and I'm convinced that it's the future of Sim-Racing. I think it was a brave step from SMS to start this giant project.
But at the moment it causes much more Issues and frustation than it benefits the game. Thy system is just not reliable. If you ask 10 people who are into competitive League-Racing probably 7 or 8 would say that the system has obvious big flaws. If there would be a possibility to use Preset-Parameters (like AC for example) instead of the Livetrack-System I'd use this straight away at the moment.

hkraft300
18-04-2018, 15:33
Are you running much less than 1.7-1.8 bar on hard tires?
I've had them up at a 1.85bar on a 30-something℃ Spa and I was lacking grip in the M6 GT3.
I'm yet to try Silverstone though. Maybe they like lower pressure now?

demand34
18-04-2018, 16:14
No problem running hards. Im not seeing what you are at all. Hards unless it's less than 20 celcius for gte. No body is running softs above this unless your running 5 to 8 laps sprints. I laid down a top five and top ten in tt yesterday just to enter times for a league and that was hard tires and didn't do more than 3 laps at each track. Softs we're destroyed in two laps at Silverstone. Useless. Maybe your not pushing enough. I can see what tires everyone runs and not seeing softs but we run 10 lap hoppers at the minimum and I will see some softs in quali but not race unless it's short.

I think the tires are the best yet. You have to manage your driving now to control heat and wear. Before just get pressures right and drive like hell. I'm not seeing anything close to what your reporting.That's not how gt3 hard tires are behaving. GTE is now painfully easy to drive even on hards. Try hards on GT3 and withness yourself the world of a difference it is.

MaXyM
18-04-2018, 16:17
I have the same feelings as @demand34 in his the last post

Deathbox_2112
18-04-2018, 16:17
I've had some of the same problems with the hard tires in GT3. I did some laps at Sugo and Long Beach and the problem I'm having on the hard tires is that the car has a delay upon turn-in, to the point that I over compensate and then the back end will come around.Turn, nothing. Turn more, car starts to actually turn. By then, the steering wheel has rotated too far and the car comes around. This is with the Stable setups with some tweaks, down the line. I did this with multiple cars, such as the 488, McLaren and Lambo. The Aston was undriveable, so I got out of that car in a hurry.

Bottom line, the car felt like it was suffering from "Snap-understeer", or "Understeer...........SNAP!!".

After that, I put soft tires on the McLaren at Sugo and it completely transformed the car. I turned the wheel AND THE CAR ACTUALLY TURNED!! WOOOOOO!! Followed it up with a test at Long Beach and had the same findings. It was really nice to be able to attack the track, again. For me the window for the softs was 9 laps at Sugo and about 7 for Long Beach. Looks like I'll be doing sprint races until I can dial out this weird turn-in "delay" with the hard tires. I remember having the same problem (but not as pronounced) with the Loose setups, in the beginning.

MrA2theK
18-04-2018, 16:23
I'm finding the hard tires consistently slippery :)

+1 for your setup. Mine's a DIY rig too!

And trying to get heat into cold tyres (hard slicks) seems more difficult now also.

MrA2theK
18-04-2018, 16:28
It's annoying that you spend so long fine tuning set ups, only for the rug to be pulled out from under your feet.
I had the R8 GT3 set up perfectly for me on most tracks, now it feels like I'm driving in the wet even when it's dry.

hkraft300
18-04-2018, 16:33
And trying to get heat into cold tyres (hard slicks) seems more difficult now also.


It's annoying that you spend so long fine tuning set ups, only for the rug to be pulled out from under your feet.
I had the R8 GT3 set up perfectly for me on most tracks, now it feels like I'm driving in the wet even when it's dry.

Ye +1 to both.
Soft tires don’t feel different to me but the hard tires will need some setup tweaks for drivability.
I did beat some guys who were cooking their soft tires and spinning. Hard tires > overheating softs!

Fight-Test
18-04-2018, 16:39
Are you running much less than 1.7-1.8 bar on hard tires?
I've had them up at a 1.85bar on a 30-something℃ Spa and I was lacking grip in the M6 GT3.
I'm yet to try Silverstone though. Maybe they like lower pressure now?

I like 1.70 to 1.75. Thats my sweet spot but I like a very stable car since Im racing mostly long races. The rears can really lose grip late in stint if your harsh early.

On cold tires it takes about half for me to feel like Im confident enough to start to pick up pace, Im real gentle the first few corners. By lap two I'm in the 85% to 90% effort on my driving but still being mindful to not do anything to really make a tire spike in temp. By lap three I'm about 90% to 95% and from there it is feel on when I can let loose. Maybe lap 4 or maybe lap 7, just depends.

It does seem that the chassis changes to the M6 are causing some struggles for more than just you. I haven't driven the M6 since patch.

Fight-Test
18-04-2018, 16:41
That's not how gt3 hard tires are behaving. GTE is now painfully easy to drive even on hards. Try hards on GT3 and withness yourself the world of a difference it is.

I did, I was faster right away as I mentioned. I went out and ran 2:06's right away at road america in lambo. This was of course after I recreated tunes. For some reason the old tunes were slick as snot on the rear tires. I will test the temp ranges this weekend as I guess you are saying its only gt3 now and not other tires?

xtro
18-04-2018, 16:48
Not sure if its related to the tires changes and too much grip but my FFB which was previously loosing weight when catching a slide and making counter steering more accurate now is back to being too violent in counter steering with snap reaction and creates crazy oscillations with again this strong elastic feel.

MrA2theK
18-04-2018, 16:53
I did, I was faster right away as I mentioned. I went out and ran 2:06's right away at road america in lambo. This was of course after I recreated tunes. For some reason the old tunes were slick as snot on the rear tires. I will test the temp ranges this weekend as I guess you are saying its only gt3 now and not other tires?

So basically I need to delete my tunes and start again Flight-test?

Fight-Test
18-04-2018, 16:55
I also feel this would be a wide spread issue with lots of posts if it was effecting many. For having at least 60 rooms open most of weekend with at least 60% of them being GT3 i think we would be hearing much more about this. Competition hasn't fallen off online, nor had the times. Also seems a very small portion of guys are experiencing this as I was one before the tunes resolved it and this was the case for alot of guys. I think its really only been a few guys here who are really harping on this but it would be a much bigger deal if it was wide spread.

cpcdem
18-04-2018, 17:55
Could be, I've been mostly in gte. I will say I was faster in gt3 post patch in Merc and lambo which are only two I tried. I only ran hards with no probs. I did have the slick rears but deleted tunes and was good for me after. I would have to test the gt3 tires more to be certain of ranges. I just keep reading gt tires but you might be correct it's gt3 only issue.

There should be a completely different discussion about GT3 and GTE. GTE now are extremely planted, even with hard tires, you can get away with mistakes and still be very fast. Hard tires in GT3 are a completely different story, at least for some cars and tracks. Soft tires in GT3 are still fast and handle well, until they overheat (this last part makes sense).

demand34
18-04-2018, 17:55
So, aren't you noticing, at least something different on GT3 hards?, that's hard to believe regardless the lobby population, which continues to be very low sadly btw

Fight-Test
18-04-2018, 19:29
There should be a completely different discussion about GT3 and GTE. GTE now are extremely planted, even with hard tires, you can get away with mistakes and still be very fast. Hard tires in GT3 are a completely different story, at least for some cars and tracks. Soft tires in GT3 are still fast and handle well, until they overheat (this last part makes sense).

Yes it does and why I want to run some test and see if I can help. I think that alot of the reports here are inconsistent but what you said makes the most since. Some seem to struggle from the start, others from practice to quali to race. Some are fine some races and not others. Then some had issues with tunes like I did and that is where the issue came from. Gets hard to figure out whats going on with so many different things being said and not much to back it up.

GTE tires have alot more movement and tire flex than before patch but I know what your saying because even though its more planted than before its more lively. Faster for sure also and much easier to catch a slide or spin. The slides and spins hurt the tires more now too. I also think before you could just push the car as hard as you wanted as long as the tires were in the correct pressure range. Now i'm seeing in 10 to 20 laps that the front runners who have been thrashing the car around start to lose up to 1.5 secs a lap, making mistakes and offs and just start to fall back through the field. Overdriving the tires seems to really effect the tires now which is freaking fantastic.

I have a 90 min league race in GT3 this weekend and Ill do some testing before hand in dry since most testing has been in wet. Last race some of the guys experienced slippery rear tires in the 2.4 hr race but it was Dubai which is a tough track on tires.

Fight-Test
18-04-2018, 19:36
So, aren't you noticing, at least something different on GT3 hards?, that's hard to believe regardless the lobby population, which continues to be very low sadly btw

I'm seeing 60 rooms at all times on the weekend days up till around 5 est when the bulk of Europeans get offline. Around 30 room after that and around 20 by 12 midnight. I don't think I have ever seen more than 62 at once but there are more rooms than that. I play with a Canadian most of the time and he always has rooms that I don't have and he normally has less than I do overall. We have to join off each other in steam alot when I can't get the room he joined to come up. Other than SRS for AC (im excluding iracing) providing scheduled races I don't think any other sim has so many active rooms. Are you seeing more rooms in rf2, Raceroom (SRS still building), Automoblista or AC (base version) than in Pcars 2? Im also loving how many GTE rooms are open now. Finding any where from 4 to 8 at a time during the day with half being multiclass which is a nice change.

Pigmachine
18-04-2018, 19:38
Deleted all my old car settings, as there is still no (other) way to set a 'visual' default? I put the settings back to around how I used to have them, and shaved almost 0.4 off from last time I had a run on Brands GP. Still. 0.082 from the impossible Interchangeable.. and 0.099 from Suomy? that ran default setup ...with external view!?
The #22 Nissan (http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1988984740&vehicle=2878763807) is my tool since 2015! :p

Well ..I'll take you both next try. ;) 2 obvious mistakes, but had my fill of driving for the month, so better brag while I have the chance, and the 3rd spot!
(5 laps every 2 months seems to be what I'm able to do without feeling burned-out still)

Seems like things don't really change until you wipe or move the old setups entirely? Felt totally different with 99% the same sloppy settings, a lot more forgiving without assists?

Still can record with shadowplay in full-screen in VR? using the steam://launch/378860/OtherVr launch for the Rift still, have it changed?

EDIT->A sub 1:24 is very possible with the Nissan GT3.. based on my 1:24.013 'festival of bad judgements and pure luck at the end!'-time

Foofer37
19-04-2018, 13:37
The game since launch had a great feel. It was what I really liked about PCars2. There were some annoying things like sound that I had hoped would get resolved, but since the update the whole game just has a weird feel anymore. I find that I'm turning the wheel all over the place and the fun is gone. I'm just not really launching the game that much anymore. A real bummer.

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 13:46
Deleted all my old car settings, as there is still no (other) way to set a 'visual' default? I put the settings back to around how I used to have them, and shaved almost 0.4 off from last time I had a run on Brands GP. Still. 0.082 from the impossible Interchangeable.. and 0.099 from Suomy? that ran default setup ...with external view!?
The #22 Nissan (http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1988984740&vehicle=2878763807) is my tool since 2015! :p

Well ..I'll take you both next try. ;) 2 obvious mistakes, but had my fill of driving for the month, so better brag while I have the chance, and the 3rd spot!
(5 laps every 2 months seems to be what I'm able to do without feeling burned-out still)

Seems like things don't really change until you wipe or move the old setups entirely? Felt totally different with 99% the same sloppy settings, a lot more forgiving without assists?

Still can record with shadowplay in full-screen in VR? using the steam://launch/378860/OtherVr launch for the Rift still, have it changed?

EDIT->A sub 1:24 is very possible with the Nissan GT3.. based on my 1:24.013 'festival of bad judgements and pure luck at the end!'-time

Hey Pigmachine, anytime you can edge Suomy at Brands is a great run!:cool:
This way your run will live forever.:)
253321

cpcdem
19-04-2018, 13:50
The game since launch had a great feel. It was what I really liked about PCars2. There were some annoying things like sound that I had hoped would get resolved, but since the update the whole game just has a weird feel anymore. I find that I'm turning the wheel all over the place and the fun is gone. I'm just not really launching the game that much anymore. A real bummer.

I have the exact same feelings with you about the GT3s, tried them a couple days post patch 5 and gave up. I also can't stand it that the GTEs are the opposite extreme now, extremely planted. But there are so many other dozens car classes in the game which still work very well for me (for my personal taste) and are a blast to drive and race on!

Pigmachine
19-04-2018, 14:36
Hey Pigmachine, anytime you can edge Suomy at Brands is a great run!:cool:
This way your run will live forever.:)


Bah he were using External views and ABS.. can't have that kind of 'King of the hill' on Brands Hatch GP on the other hand he used default setup..
I use my 2 laps, no assists, and then let the poor car die tactics ;)

Put in a time for the Old Skyline GT-R group A (http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1988984740&vehicle=2136103830) while I still were in the mood. I had so much fun with that one now, that I wondered why there even are other cars included!
I didn't use the clutch once, it actually were so damn fun to drive that one that I'll pick up driving again.

As I know Cluck and PizzaSub don't drive the Nissans voluntarily I hope to see new people annihilate my times. I earlier said I'd not go back to driving until I were beaten with >0.5 a second on Brands GP in the Nissan GT3.. But I never mentioned how long I'd stay :p

Who is Suomy? is he famous? Noticed he had the 'GT3' WR on the track with a Mercedes-Benz CLK-LM?
Guess it's time to try a Mercedes :cool:

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 16:05
Bah he were using External views and ABS.. can't have that kind of 'King of the hill' on Brands Hatch GP on the other hand he used default setup..
I use my 2 laps, no assists, and then let the poor car die tactics ;)

Put in a time for the Old Skyline GT-R group A (http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1988984740&vehicle=2136103830) while I still were in the mood. I had so much fun with that one now, that I wondered why there even are other cars included!
I didn't use the clutch once, it actually were so damn fun to drive that one that I'll pick up driving again.

As I know Cluck and PizzaSub don't drive the Nissans voluntarily I hope to see new people annihilate my times. I earlier said I'd not go back to driving until I were beaten with >0.5 a second on Brands GP in the Nissan GT3.. But I never mentioned how long I'd stay :p

Who is Suomy? is he famous? Noticed he had the 'GT3' WR on the track with a Mercedes-Benz CLK-LM?
Guess it's time to try a Mercedes :cool:

Hey, it's ok to use the assists that come with the class.:D You should consider giving the new GTE tires some runs if you have time, at SPA as well as LMP2. But these might be too easy now.:D Putting a half second on your Brands run might take a while.:D The Nissans just haven' been popular. in GT3 the Nissan is in the back of the pack with AM, Bentley, Caddy Z4 etc..

Cluck is at Spa with the Nissan JS P2 at 2:01.880 +0:00.080 one of the new guys has the WR.

On the Leaderboard with the CKLM you were looking at "Class" so you need to switch to "Vehicle" to see GT3. Suomy mostly runs Default, he has a few WRs.http://pcars.13ms.de/#/users/76561198046491825

rich1e I
19-04-2018, 16:14
I have the exact same feelings with you about the GT3s, tried them a couple days post patch 5 and gave up. I also can't stand it that the GTEs are the opposite extreme now, extremely planted. But there are so many other dozens car classes in the game which still work very well for me (for my personal taste) and are a blast to drive and race on!


I think the last word hasn't been spoken yet in terms of tyres. SMS had changed hard tyres in patch 4 already but without mentioning anything in the patch notes. That's what concerns me a little bit. Also I think the silence after patch 5 has become too loud now. Not sure how to interprete this. Some kind of communication would be nice.
No need to give up on GT3s, cpcdem. It's not too bad in my view. It's just the same as before: Check track temps and choose your tyres. Hards are a bit slidier now and take a few laps to heat up but they're fine once they're up to temps.

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 16:20
I think the last word hasn't been spoken yet in terms of tyres. SMS had changed hard tyres in patch 4 already but without mentioning anything in the patch notes. That's what concerns me a little bit. Also I think the silence after patch 5 has become too loud now. Not sure how to interprete this. Some kind of communication would be nice.
No need to give up on GT3s, cpcdem. It's not too bad in my view. It's just the same as before: Check track temps and choose your tyres. Hards are a bit slidier now and take a few laps to heat up but they're fine once they're up to temps.

Hi rich1e 1, please run the Ferrari 488 GT3 at Red Bull Ring GP using Default then and let us know what you think, it hasn't worked well on PC.

rich1e I
19-04-2018, 16:29
Hi rich1e 1, please run the Ferrari 488 GT3 at Red Bull Ring GP using Default then and let us know what you think, it hasn't worked well on PC.

I absolutely hate the Ferrari :D but I can run a few laps if you want. What isn't working with the Ferrari exactly?

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 16:33
I absolutely hate the Ferrari :D but I can run a few laps if you want. What isn't working with the Ferrari exactly?
Odd behavior with the Hard tires at this track and Sugo as well but at Fuji the tires are fine?. 1:29.091 +0:01.430 is the best one of our really good drivers could manage.

rich1e I
19-04-2018, 16:42
Odd behavior with the Hard tires at this track and Sugo as well but at Fuji the tires are fine?. 1:29.091 +0:01.430 is the best one of our really good drivers could manage.

Alright I'll give it a go. What conditions should I aim for?

Edit: So I did a few laps and I couldn't notice any strange behavior tbf. Track temps 22C/72F, ambient 16C/61F, default setup. Tyres were a bit cold of course (<70C/158F) but grip was surprisingly good.

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 16:57
Alright I'll give it a go. What conditions should I aim for?

You just run TT please, unless you are one of the unlucky ones who can't without CTD.:(

rich1e I
19-04-2018, 17:04
You just run TT please, unless you are one of the unlucky ones who can't without CTD.:(

Ok so you think it's a TT related issue? Edited my post above btw.

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 17:08
Ok so you think it's a TT related issue? Edited my post above btw.

Ok, what time did you mange to run, better than 1:29.091?

cpcdem
19-04-2018, 17:10
I think the last word hasn't been spoken yet in terms of tyres. SMS had changed hard tyres in patch 4 already but without mentioning anything in the patch notes. That's what concerns me a little bit. Also I think the silence after patch 5 has become too loud now. Not sure how to interprete this. Some kind of communication would be nice.
No need to give up on GT3s, cpcdem. It's not too bad in my view. It's just the same as before: Check track temps and choose your tyres. Hards are a bit slidier now and take a few laps to heat up but they're fine once they're up to temps.

My guess is (could be completely wrong of course) that something went wrong in the last patch, the new behavior was not intended (at least not to such an extent) and it will be corrected in a newer patch, so for now I am not touching GT3s/GTEs and will wait for the new patch.

It's honestly not a big problem for me, yes most online servers are still GT3/E, but there are also touring car races which still work nicely to me, in our TC league we also added races with the GT5 which is working nicely, recently signed up for a Bac Mono league which is also a handful, I am doing plenty TT with Road cars, GTA, there is so much content in this game which can keep everybody occupied forever, no matter if he likes the new GT3s or not!

But I'd still be interested to hear your opinion on what blink asked you about the Ferrari in RBR. Or the Aston Martin for example, with the default setups.

rich1e I
19-04-2018, 17:22
Ok, what time did you mange to run, better than 1:29.091?

Just did a few laps in TT with the default setup. No strange behavior, it's actually very stable and easy do drive. Only problem is maybe that pressures were too high being at 1.90 bar but overall no strange behavior here on the XBox side of things.
I myself can't manage for the life of me to breach into the 29s. I've done 30.0s but it seems I'm not capable of doing 29s.

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 17:23
My guess is (could be completely wrong of course) that something went wrong in the last patch, the new behavior was not intended (at least not to such an extent) and it will be corrected in a newer patch, so for now I am not touching GT3s/GTEs and will wait for the new patch.

It's honestly not a big problem for me, yes most online servers are still GT3/E, but there are also touring car races which still work nicely to me, in our TC league we also added races with the GT5 which is working nicely, recently signed up for a Bac Mono league which is also a handful, I am doing plenty TT with Road cars, GTA, there is so much content in this game which can keep everybody occupied forever, no matter if he likes the new GT3s or not!

But I'd still be interested to hear your opinion on what blink asked you about the Ferrari in RBR. Or the Aston Martin for example, with the default setups.

Hi cpcdem. I was trying to see if it is a PC issue. I ran the GTO with the bad tires at some tracks on PS4 and on PC they were fine. So, I wanted to see if the RBR Default issues were PC only and if the XBOX was ok. Rinpoku made a Custom run with the Ferrari at RBR and he is really good but with the new tires he is off pace and Oscaro(Adalexis) hasn't made another run since the patch.

Thanks for trying to help out rich. That's the problem we are having, cpcdem used to run 28s and now he is in the 30s, frustrating.

Fight-Test
19-04-2018, 17:43
It's really strange jussi hasn't been communicating with us anymore. He was normally all over this and helped us to figure this stuff out. Maybe he will chime in soon and give his feedback.

cpcdem
19-04-2018, 17:48
Well, 28's were only once in a blue moon, but I could do consistently low 29s and now I am doing 31s with hards, slipping everywhere and fighting with the wheel. With softs I can still do 29s (for one lap), but I don't think this was the intended behavior. Anyway, thanks for the feedback rich1e, maybe it's indeed PC only, maybe there's something else going on. But, in any case, as I said the game is so rich so that the GT3 matter has not affected me still racing every day 3-4 hours or more in PC2 :)

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 17:53
It's really strange jussi hasn't been communicating with us anymore. He was normally all over this and helped us to figure this stuff out. Maybe he will chime in soon and give his feedback.

I hope so, we are having track to track variation and platform to platform. Someone save us please.:eek:

rich1e I
19-04-2018, 18:06
My guess is (could be completely wrong of course) that something went wrong in the last patch, the new behavior was not intended (at least not to such an extent) and it will be corrected in a newer patch, so for now I am not touching GT3s/GTEs and will wait for the new patch.

Honestly, I was thinking something similar. It's pure speculation of course but if SMS choose to keep silence it's normal that people's phantasy comes into play.
SMS has concentrated much on rallycross cars and LMP2s because they're part of e-sport events. You can clearly see it when feeling the FFB in these cars. It's superb. Now, in my opinion rallycross was a bit too slidey. Fun, but too slidey in my view, so I think they changed something for rallycross cars and it could've affected large parts of other classes.
I haven't driven rallycross cars since the fun pack was released but I'm going to give it a go again tonight and see if there's a difference. Just a few thoughts and - again - of course pure speculation but I don't know why SMS are being quiet about the tyre changes.

sas5320
19-04-2018, 19:59
It's really strange jussi hasn't been communicating with us anymore. He was normally all over this and helped us to figure this stuff out. Maybe he will chime in soon and give his feedback.

I miss Jussi, Casey, AJ and Doug. April has been eerily quiet (compared to previous month's) from blue team. Certainly not healthiest forum right now for them, but there are some genuine followers with legit questions. Hopefully soon.l

blinkngone
19-04-2018, 21:15
I miss Jussi, Casey, AJ and Doug. April has been eerily quiet (compared to previous month's) from blue team. Certainly not healthiest forum right now for them, but there are some genuine followers with legit questions. Hopefully soon.l

Yeah, one of the SMS team did mention in the official thread that he was heartsick of the somewhat "hair on fire" responses to the release of the patch but things have calmed down now. GT3 drivers are able to set WRs, the LSDs appear to be working. Some classes are much faster. Hopefully they will come back soon. It's hard for them to trust us if you consider some of our initial behavior. Even though it's the internet and you should expect anything it's still difficult if the team worked hard to get us the patch.

rich1e I
19-04-2018, 21:33
Honestly, I was thinking something similar. It's pure speculation of course but if SMS choose to keep silence it's normal that people's phantasy comes into play.
SMS has concentrated much on rallycross cars and LMP2s because they're part of e-sport events. You can clearly see it when feeling the FFB in these cars. It's superb. Now, in my opinion rallycross was a bit too slidey. Fun, but too slidey in my view, so I think they changed something for rallycross cars and it could've affected large parts of other classes.
I haven't driven rallycross cars since the fun pack was released but I'm going to give it a go again tonight and see if there's a difference. Just a few thoughts and - again - of course pure speculation but I don't know why SMS are being quiet about the tyre changes.

Ok scratch that. Did a few laps in a rallycross car and it feels the same to me. It was just an idea. I'm actually pretty sure there will be some explanation in the near future. I can imagine it's not so much fun reading all the speculation about what actually happened in the last 2 patches.

Bliman
19-04-2018, 22:15
I for one am not enjoying Project Cars2 anymore with this patch.
I don't know very much about tuning but could always drive reasonable fast.
I was testing formula rookie to see at what I must set the difficulty for a new career.
I was already at 100% when I was testing.
But that was with the previous patch.
blinkngone had given me a new setup for this patch (thank you) but I still get massive oversteering and the kerbs (you either slide like crazy or get's sucked on it and in to the grass) are also acting very weirdly.
In fast corners the car just oversteers and crashes without any warning that you are on the limit.
Before ,you could play with formula rookie because you felt when you were reaching the limit of the car, now it is just unpredictable.
Other cars now grip very hard like the mono and also feel unrealistic.
I am just totally confused with Project Cars2, and I hope there will be a patch very soon because I always had a good time with the game.

blinkngone
20-04-2018, 01:01
I for one am not enjoying Project Cars2 anymore with this patch.
I don't know very much about tuning but could always drive reasonable fast.
I was testing formula rookie to see at what I must set the difficulty for a new career.
I was already at 100% when I was testing.
But that was with the previous patch.
blinkngone had given me a new setup for this patch (thank you) but I still get massive oversteering and the kerbs (you either slide like crazy or get's sucked on it and in to the grass) are also acting very weirdly.
In fast corners the car just oversteers and crashes without any warning that you are on the limit.
Before ,you could play with formula rookie because you felt when you were reaching the limit of the car, now it is just unpredictable.
Other cars now grip very hard like the mono and also feel unrealistic.
I am just totally confused with Project Cars2, and I hope there will be a patch very soon because I always had a good time with the game.
Sorry Bliman. I have never driven the Formula Rookie before but I decided to give it a shot. At first I had the same problem as you described with the oversteer and agree unless you really know the curbs it is best to avoid them. I really lowered the tire pressure and I have more to go because I am at around 180 F and I believe I need to be at 202. I am having a bad time on the brakes but then I always do. I am just trying to get on the First page of the Leaderboard right now and I am about 0.043 away.:D I set my goal low so I don't give up.:D Anyway I'll keep working on it if you do. I am using Silverstone National so if you go there maybe we can work something out.

cpcdem
20-04-2018, 04:29
Other cars now grip very hard like the mono and also feel unrealistic.


Do you mean the Bac Mono was more difficult to drive before patch 5? Ouch, I started driving it just a few days ago and it already was hard (but fun) for me, I imagine what it was like before :)

hkraft300
20-04-2018, 06:54
Alright I'll give it a go. What conditions should I aim for?

Edit: So I did a few laps and I couldn't notice any strange behavior tbf. Track temps 22C/72F, ambient 16C/61F, default setup. Tyres were a bit cold of course (<70C/158F) but grip was surprisingly good.

That cold conditions would suck on hard tires before patch 5 anyway.

demand34
20-04-2018, 07:52
Not even before 5.0 you could use hards with safety on that semi-warm track. Hards worked fine 27 upwards or so before 5.0.

hkraft300
20-04-2018, 08:14
Not even before 5.0 you could use hards with safety on that semi-warm track. Hards worked fine 27 upwards or so before 5.0.

But they still sucked.
Soft tires were faster.
Now 30℃ spa soft tires are faster over a lap or 3 and hard tires slide and are slow. But over a 10+ lap race distance hard tires are better. Where the soft tire guys might run away from you at the start, they'll burn their tires and spin then you will pass them easy on your hard tires.
They definitely have less grip than patch 3/4 but are consistent and predictable. They don't just suddenly let go like the soft tires. Makes the GT3 fun I think. Makes you earn it. They slip a lot but it's controllable. When the front or rear slides you can adjust slightly and bring it back.

Atak Kat
20-04-2018, 08:52
But they still sucked.
Soft tires were faster.
Now 30℃ spa soft tires are faster over a lap or 3 and hard tires slide and are slow. But over a 10+ lap race distance hard tires are better. Where the soft tire guys might run away from you at the start, they'll burn their tires and spin then you will pass them easy on your hard tires.
They definitely have less grip than patch 3/4 but are consistent and predictable. They don't just suddenly let go like the soft tires. Makes the GT3 fun I think. Makes you earn it. They slip a lot but it's controllable. When the front or rear slides you can adjust slightly and bring it back.

I'm not so sure, honestly....
How many laps do you think it would take for this to pay off?
Personally, I'm finding that even if the softs fall off after about 10 laps (this I agree 100% based on what I've seen), as long as you don't cook them, you can continue on with softs (after they have fallen off) at a lap pace quite similar to the hards pace. So I have yet to find a situation where the eventual pace on the hards, actually gets better than the softs.

John Hargreaves
20-04-2018, 10:15
So we're saying that driving quali laps every lap kills the tyres, but driving more smoothly to preserve tyres means they last longer. Arcade ;)

Renoldo1990
20-04-2018, 11:50
Not completely related to the Topic here:

But driving the Ginetta GT3 in the rain with rain tires, the Tire-Temperatures at the rear creep up to over 100.
Does that make sense? Track was already full-wet with puddles and stuff.
Tried also Lambo & Ferrari under the same settings - Rear-Tire-Temperatures were 30-40 lower. :confused:

Ambient-Temperature was 14, Track Temperature 26.

hkraft300
20-04-2018, 15:21
I'm not so sure, honestly....
How many laps do you think it would take for this to pay off?
Personally, I'm finding that even if the softs fall off after about 10 laps (this I agree 100% based on what I've seen), as long as you don't cook them, you can continue on with softs (after they have fallen off) at a lap pace quite similar to the hards pace. So I have yet to find a situation where the eventual pace on the hards, actually gets better than the softs.

Well it takes much less than 10 laps to kill the soft tires.
Under obviously hot or obviously cold conditions the choice is clear. When the conditions are moderate, you can choose either compound. Drive it like you stole it with hard tires, or manage your soft tires.


Not completely related to the Topic here:

But driving the Ginetta GT3 in the rain with rain tires, the Tire-Temperatures at the rear creep up to over 100.
Does that make sense? Track was already full-wet with puddles and stuff.
Tried also Lambo & Ferrari under the same settings - Rear-Tire-Temperatures were 30-40 lower. :confused:

Ambient-Temperature was 14, Track Temperature 26.

Ginetta is a little loose and likes a bit of a slide. Much more than the Ferrari and Lamborghini.
If you can steer it less from the rear it will hold the temp better. The rear tires get hot on me in dry conditions.
Such a nice car to drive though.

Scott Coffey
20-04-2018, 18:32
Not liking the post-patch GT3 tires. Car slides around too much, especially mid-corner. I can't find a setup on the Audi that doesn't feel nervous unless I use a super-understeery setup and then the car is too slow.

I've tried new setups. I've tried deleting my profile. Hoping for a fix.

Foofer37
24-04-2018, 17:21
Can anyone at SMS comment on this? The new handling model is just bizarre. It feels more like Shift 2 unleashed now.

cluck
24-04-2018, 17:52
I haven't driven a GT3 car since patch 4 arrived and I've just taken the Ferrari GT3 out around Bathurst, both in free practice and time-trial. It felt absolutely fine, a little 'lively' on the cold tyres but once warmed up it was a joy to drive. Hopping into time-trial for 2 laps and I matched my previous times with no difficulty (with a few more laps under my belt I'd be beating the previous time I set). That was all set on a 100% default 'loose' setup, which was using the Hard tyre. I'll be honest, there was absolutely nothing unpredictable or unusual about the way the car drove - I just had to adjust my driving, given that I spent 2 hours driving the GTE version last night, so the way that drives was still on my mind.

Scott Coffey
24-04-2018, 17:57
Try something besides the Ferrari.

banner77amc
24-04-2018, 18:10
I did notice that my career in the GT series with the Bentley that the car became more of a bear than it was previously. Also the BMW Touring car which used to grip very well at Imola gave me more clinch moments than I would have liked.

Brainbug
24-04-2018, 18:15
Can anyone at SMS comment on this? The new handling model is just bizarre. It feels more like Shift 2 unleashed now.

Hey ho, before calling here a handling model responsible, what ever you are talking about, pyhsics or ffb... first get sure all other folks experience the same.

I am driving the 911 and the huracan gt3 quite regulary and as cluck reported i do not experience any Strange or nfs shift stuff. Once you bring your blacks in good working range, you feel the bite. And BTW, this full range feel is what make it so great and fun. Sure, you still can overdrive a car. Depends on what you are looking for ; maybe just go down with ai strengh if thats you goal.

Foofer37
24-04-2018, 18:41
Hey ho, before calling here a „handling model“ responsible, what ever you are talking about, pyhsics or ffb... first get sure all other folks experience the same.

I am driving the 911 and the huracan gt3 quite regulary and as cluck reported i do not experience any „Strange“ or nfs shift stuff. Once you bring your blacks in good working range, you feel the bite. And BTW, this „full range feel“ is what make it so great and fun. Sure, you still can overdrive a car. Depends on what you are looking for ; maybe just go down with ai strengh if thats you goal.

This is a joke, right?

Sentry87
24-04-2018, 18:48
Tire manufacturers change the way their tires operate yearly for several race series. Pirelli for Blancpain, f1 etc. I'm kind of treating this update as such. Different window for optimal temperatures, pressures etc than tire compound previously did.

Foofer37
24-04-2018, 19:22
Tire manufacturers change the way their tires operate yearly for several race series. Pirelli for Blancpain, f1 etc. I'm kind of treating this update as such. Different window for optimal temperatures, pressures etc than tire compound previously did.

Well, glad you can look at it that way, but for me it's too unrealistic a feel that I get from certain cars now. Almost like the steering is broken. Not a tire issue.
I just tried the McLaren GT3 car and it handles fine with the new tire model. Then again, that car seemed to handle better than all the other cars since the game was released. (Interesting as this is a British title. Japanese cars have a funny way of being the best handling cars in Gran Turismo) Anyway, compare the McLaren to say, the 911 GT3 and you can see how the Porsche 'swims around' with it's steering. Sorry, but if I'm a real race driver and the car drove like, I'd be back in the pits after 1 lap telling the crew to fix the steering. To me it takes all the fun out of the game. There needs to be a sweet feel to the game. And there was. That's gone now. Now it's obnoxious, like Shift 2 was.

AbeWoz
24-04-2018, 19:29
maybe because the 911 is rear engine and it takes a very unique driving style and car setup?

Sentry87
24-04-2018, 19:51
Well, glad you can look at it that way, but for me it's too unrealistic a feel that I get from certain cars now. Almost like the steering is broken. Not a tire issue.
I just tried the McLaren GT3 car and it handles fine with the new tire model. Then again, that car seemed to handle better than all the other cars since the game was released. (Interesting as this is a British title. Japanese cars have a funny way of being the best handling cars in Gran Turismo) Anyway, compare the McLaren to say, the 911 GT3 and you can see how the Porsche 'swims around' with it's steering. Sorry, but if I'm a real race driver and the car drove like, I'd be back in the pits after 1 lap telling the crew to fix the steering. To me it takes all the fun out of the game. There needs to be a sweet feel to the game. And there was. That's gone now. Now it's obnoxious, like Shift 2 was.

Totally off base. The 650 handles best, but it is the slowest in straight line speed. Every Gt3 cars have their strengths and weaknesses. And all run on same tires.

Foofer37
24-04-2018, 19:55
Totally off base. The 650 handles best, but it is the slowest in straight line speed. Every Gt3 cars have their strengths and weaknesses. And all run on same tires.

Uh, what? Are you people for real here today?

Fight-Test
24-04-2018, 20:22
Uh, what? Are you people for real here today?

Some of the cars a little more lively but you need to really get about 5 to 8 laps now for the tires to get to pressure even though they start to feel better after few laps. The main thing is now you need some throttle control. GT3 isn't a on/off button with the throttle like it was prepatch. You can't just mash the pedal. Im so in love with the feel of the GTE's now I can't get enough but GT3's are still good, at least the Lambo, Renault and AMG and the Lambo and AMG are faster. I have barely touched the soft tires so this is hard tire testing.

cluck
24-04-2018, 20:36
Try something besides the Ferrari.As a genuine question, why? The suggestion is that the tyres are fundamentally broken. This is clearly not the case, or I wouldn't have been able to take a car that I haven't driven for nearly 4 months around Bathurst in the same time as my previous best TT time in my 2nd lap. I haven't touched the GT3 cars in nearly 4 months, we don't tend to race them very often in our league. The car felt fine, planted, compliant, going where I told it to go with my wheel and pedals. That I made it around Bathurst without smacking the walls on both of my laps tells me that the tyres are not broken.

But once I'm done with my league duties tonight I'll try another GT3 car. And then I'll try another, just in case I pick the wrong one again.

demand34
24-04-2018, 20:40
ok so there's nothing wrong with GT3 hards ookaayy

cpcdem
24-04-2018, 20:55
I haven't driven a GT3 car since patch 4 arrived and I've just taken the Ferrari GT3 out around Bathurst, both in free practice and time-trial. It felt absolutely fine, a little 'lively' on the cold tyres but once warmed up it was a joy to drive. Hopping into time-trial for 2 laps and I matched my previous times with no difficulty (with a few more laps under my belt I'd be beating the previous time I set). That was all set on a 100% default 'loose' setup, which was using the Hard tyre. I'll be honest, there was absolutely nothing unpredictable or unusual about the way the car drove - I just had to adjust my driving, given that I spent 2 hours driving the GTE version last night, so the way that drives was still on my mind.

When you get some time, could you please try the same car at Red Bull Ring, too? I remember you did a 1.29 on default with just a couple attempts some time ago, can you still go near that time again with default setup (hard tires)?

I could also do similar times before patch 5 (but after spending literally dozens and dozens of hours practicing that combo :)), but after patch 5, for a couple days that I tried, I could hardly do 1.30s and in order to get there it was a constant fight with the wheel that I did not enjoy at all.

But if you try this combo and the car still feels good to you and you can still be fast like before, then I (and apparently many other people, too), need to try to find out why there's such a huge difference of the feel we are getting, compared to you guys that still feel just fine with those cars after the patch. Wondering if we need to start looking into possible hardware issues that could be causing those differences, if maybe the physics engine works better in your machines than mine and some others. By the way I am using a lowly GTX960 and an i5, but at least frame rates still look good as before, at around 100 fps.

demand34
24-04-2018, 21:03
I'm starting to think that we may very well playing different games.

Fight-Test
24-04-2018, 21:41
When you get some time, could you please try the same car at Red Bull Ring, too? I remember you did a 1.29 on default with just a couple attempts some time ago, can you still go near that time again with default setup (hard tires)?

I could also do similar times before patch 5 (but after spending literally dozens and dozens of hours practicing that combo :)), but after patch 5, for a couple days that I tried, I could hardly do 1.30s and in order to get there it was a constant fight with the wheel that I did not enjoy at all.

But if you try this combo and the car still feels good to you and you can still be fast like before, then I (and apparently many other people, too), need to try to find out why there's such a huge difference of the feel we are getting, compared to you guys that still feel just fine with those cars after the patch. Wondering if we need to start looking into possible hardware issues that could be causing those differences, if maybe the physics engine works better in your machines than mine and some others. By the way I am using a lowly GTX960 and an i5, but at least frame rates still look good as before, at around 100 fps.

Could this be the ballast change in car and not the tires? How are the cars that they didn't BOP feel since patch? Are you overclocking? We know that can lead to all kinds of weird things in this game.

cluck
24-04-2018, 22:26
When you get some time, could you please try the same car at Red Bull Ring, too? I remember you did a 1.29 on default with just a couple attempts some time ago, can you still go near that time again with default setup (hard tires)?

I could also do similar times before patch 5 (but after spending literally dozens and dozens of hours practicing that combo :)), but after patch 5, for a couple days that I tried, I could hardly do 1.30s and in order to get there it was a constant fight with the wheel that I did not enjoy at all.

But if you try this combo and the car still feels good to you and you can still be fast like before, then I (and apparently many other people, too), need to try to find out why there's such a huge difference of the feel we are getting, compared to you guys that still feel just fine with those cars after the patch. Wondering if we need to start looking into possible hardware issues that could be causing those differences, if maybe the physics engine works better in your machines than mine and some others. By the way I am using a lowly GTX960 and an i5, but at least frame rates still look good as before, at around 100 fps.I did a few laps and got within 0.5s of my previous time and the car felt just as good as I remember it feeling.

In terms of differences, see my sig for PC specs. I have "-pthreads 4" in my launch options and I always drive with my Rift DK2.

No doubt I've picked the wrong GT3 cars again but I just took the Acura, Audi, Aston and Bentley up Bathurst and improved on my previous best times within 3 laps on each car. All of the laps could be improved upon (significantly in some cases) and all of these cars felt absolutely wonderful - Acura was the standout for me, it was incredibly planted and more rewarding to drive than even the Ferrari was. I'm not going to go through every GT3 car, it's getting late, but given that I've now chucked 5 of them up the mountain tonight and aside from setting faster times in each of them, found nothing untoward in their handling whatsoever, I'm inclined to stop testing.

I cannot explain why some of you are struggling but, for me at least, these 5 cars that I tested feel as good as they have ever done.


EDIT : For clarity, I tested each car on the default 'loose' setup. I adjusted the traction control and ABS levels, as well as adjusting the brake bias, all from the ICM. All of these cars were tested in time-trial only but I did test the Ferrari in a private practice session earlier as well.

blinkngone
24-04-2018, 22:54
As a genuine question, why? The suggestion is that the tyres are fundamentally broken. This is clearly not the case, or I wouldn't have been able to take a car that I haven't driven for nearly 4 months around Bathurst in the same time as my previous best TT time in my 2nd lap. I haven't touched the GT3 cars in nearly 4 months, we don't tend to race them very often in our league. The car felt fine, planted, compliant, going where I told it to go with my wheel and pedals. That I made it around Bathurst without smacking the walls on both of my laps tells me that the tyres are not broken.

But once I'm done with my league duties tonight I'll try another GT3 car. And then I'll try another, just in case I pick the wrong one again.

Hi Cluck, The best time with the Ferrari is Rinpoku's at 1:28.302 +0:00.641 , so even with the additional weight it is still fastest at RBR. The AMG is the most improved at 1:29.107 over 1 second better than the 4.0 patch best.

cluck
24-04-2018, 22:58
Hi Cluck, The best time with the Ferrari is Rinpoku's at 1:28.302 +0:00.641 , so even with the additional weight it is still fastest at RBR. The AMG is the most improved at 1:29.107 over 1 second better than the 4.0 patch best.Oh I'm well aware my time is not the fastest default time :). I've driven Red Bull Ring for the first time tonight in months and I was keeping the car within the white lines (unlike my previous time) - it's also not a circuit I ever drive that much because I simply don't enjoy it as much as I do some other circuits. I was simply asked if I could get close within a few laps and the answer is yes :).

cpcdem
24-04-2018, 23:25
I did a few laps and got within 0.5s of my previous time and the car felt just as good as I remember it feeling.

In terms of differences, see my sig for PC specs. I have "-pthreads 4" in my launch options and I always drive with my Rift DK2.

No doubt I've picked the wrong GT3 cars again but I just took the Acura, Audi, Aston and Bentley up Bathurst and improved on my previous best times within 3 laps on each car. All of the laps could be improved upon (significantly in some cases) and all of these cars felt absolutely wonderful - Acura was the standout for me, it was incredibly planted and more rewarding to drive than even the Ferrari was. I'm not going to go through every GT3 car, it's getting late, but given that I've now chucked 5 of them up the mountain tonight and aside from setting faster times in each of them, found nothing untoward in their handling whatsoever, I'm inclined to stop testing.

I cannot explain why some of you are struggling but, for me at least, these 5 cars that I tested feel as good as they have ever done.


EDIT : For clarity, I tested each car on the default 'loose' setup. I adjusted the traction control and ABS levels, as well as adjusting the brake bias, all from the ICM. All of these cars were tested in time-trial only but I did test the Ferrari in a private practice session earlier as well.

OK, thanks a lot for your detailed testing and info. I am just left puzzled, wondering what is it that is causing such very different handling or perception of it between different people. Very strange...

cpcdem
24-04-2018, 23:35
Could this be the ballast change in car and not the tires? How are the cars that they didn't BOP feel since patch? Are you overclocking? We know that can lead to all kinds of weird things in this game.

Nope, no overclocking or anything. Regarding GT3s, I only tried the Ferrari (which I had been racing A LOT with some months ago), the Aston and the AMG very briefly, I found them all extremely hard for me to drive fast with default setup, skidding everywhere, spinning, hard to keep under braking, counter steering all the time, that sort of things. All my tests were done under TT conditions, as that's what I'm most familiar with in offline mode (have spent literally many 100s hours in this mode :))

But with the GTEs, I felt the complete opposite after patch 5, extremely planted now, could overshoot corners and then easily correct my path, like I had immense downforce. For other cars that I am using very extensively in the last months (touring cars, road cars), I did not feel a noticeable difference before and after patch 5.