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Mincepie10
10-04-2018, 08:46
Hi. As a novice, I was wondering if anyone could give me some braking tips? I watched a Youtube hotlap/set-up video for Monza and the Porsche GT3. I have set up the car exactly the same as the guy in the video who did a 1:45 lap. I try braking at exactly the points he mentions, but I simply skid or overrun the corner. In general, I find that my braking points are quite a bit earlier than those of the AI or opponents on-line. As I said, slamming on the brakes leads to skidding and dabbing and squeezing leads to overruns. I guess a balance of the two is in order, but does anyone have any tips? Thanks

hkraft300
10-04-2018, 08:50
Reduce brake pressure. Try abs if you like.
Have a play with brake bias. There's a sweet spot that'll really allow you to stomp on it, but beware of trail braking.
Also, trail braking. Master that and you'll chop your brake distance.

Don't dab and squeeze. Get on it hard, stay on it, then back off just at the point before lock up. Search for threshold braking articles and videos that apply in real life, not just SIM racing.

Zaskarspants
10-04-2018, 08:56
I use pedals, so apologies if this is not relevant.

A few weeks ago I started trying trial braking and it has helped my racing but I found I needed to make adjustments to my pedal to find the control I needed.

Trail braking - I have been braking very hard at first then easing off as I turn in and then off brake and back on throttle at the apex or when I feel the car is gripping and stable.

I found I was over braking on entry most times and or unable to finesse the brake at the apex and was likely to go wide. I found it really helped to change my brake pedal dead-zone to a much higher one.

I had previously set the bite point of the brake to match the point where the logitech pedals got stiff as they hit the bung, with a dead zone of about 30. Increasing the dead zone to 60 or 70 means the brakes now need a firm pressure befor application and I find I much better able to control brake pressure.

Zaskarspants
10-04-2018, 08:58
Ha - semi ninjha by htcraft300.

Mincepie10
10-04-2018, 10:49
Thanks very much for the tips. Trail-braking certainly seems to be one issue here. As a novice, I tend to straight-line brake and trail-braking tends to end in corner overshoot. I do use a wheel and pedals, so I will give the dead zone adjustment a go to see if that makes any difference. I have a small amount of ABS - I think the setting the YouTuber used was 17 pct. And I think the brake bias was 57/43. I have tended to move the brake balance back in the set-ups I have done myself, so I may also try that as well as increasing the ABS a tad. My guess, though, is it's mostly due to a failure to trail-brake. The Porsche (despite what the guy on YouTube seems to suggest) also seems quite twitchy relative to, say the Ferrari 488 or the Huracan. Not so much slower, but more tail happy. I guess that's the way with a rear-wheel drive car.

hkraft300
10-04-2018, 11:17
I have brake dead Zone 0 sensitivity 30

Zaskarspants
10-04-2018, 11:31
My dead zone is 60, sens 30.

I should add the much of this is personal pref and what works for you, I like a heavy brake feel and I prefer to have to really press hard to reach lock up as that is where I find I have most control.

Six weeks ago I actually put my heel through the pedal foot rest area when I played in a pair of brogues with hard heels. This was quickly fixed with a sheet of marine ply but clearly I am at the heavy end of braking preferences.

I hope to upgrade to better metal load cell pedals when circumstances allow or when my pedals finally give up.

edit - try turning up tyre noises so you can easily hear the changes in the sound as you brake and run tone in ffb < 50 to feel front grip.

hkraft300
10-04-2018, 11:52
Somebody never skips leg day!

Zaskarspants
10-04-2018, 12:02
I have not owned many cars, but two I had for ages was a mini 1000 and a Citroen 2cv, both had very heavy brake pedals so maybe that gave me bad habits. When I occasionally drive a modern car I find the brakes very sensitive.

Most of my irl driving over the years has been big motorbikes not cars, and push bikes, so yeah, strong legs and old cars.

LittleWatt
10-04-2018, 13:29
Hi. As a novice, I was wondering if anyone could give me some braking tips? I watched a Youtube hotlap/set-up video for Monza and the Porsche GT3. I have set up the car exactly the same as the guy in the video who did a 1:45 lap. I try braking at exactly the points he mentions, but I simply skid or overrun the corner. In general, I find that my braking points are quite a bit earlier than those of the AI or opponents on-line. As I said, slamming on the brakes leads to skidding and dabbing and squeezing leads to overruns. I guess a balance of the two is in order, but does anyone have any tips? Thanks

But how are your lap times? Are you way behind? When you brake early are you able to clear the corner with good speed? I’m asking because driving styles differ. I’m one to brake early if I know I can exit faster. I only have 8 hours in game but I’ve noticed AI cars have far different brake zones than I do but so far it hasn’t mattered. It may once I start ramping up the difficulty.

Might be a good idea to keep an eye on your brake meter and relate your brake meter to brake lock-up and adjust accordingly. I don’t like my brake meter going over 80%.

Mincepie10
11-04-2018, 07:20
Thanks again. Not great times. I managed in the 1.49s reasonably regularly at Monza yesterday, though I was somewhat erratic. I had a spell of maybe 10-15 laps between the high 1.49s and the low 1.50s. I got the potential time down to about 1.48.3. Then it all went to pot again as I changed the settings a bit. I can corner ok if I brake early, but I noticed in my online races (the few I did) that braking early meant that people would simply ram me from behind - whether they were over optimistic about their own cornering abilities or simply were better at cornering, I can't say. So basically, I am trying to be good enough to keep out of people's way as much as anything.

maxx69
11-04-2018, 07:50
Six weeks ago I actually put my heel through the pedal foot rest area when I played in a pair of brogues with hard heels.


Wow now that's posh , racing in a pair of brogues ;)

Alfred57
11-04-2018, 08:05
Everything is a bit of personal choice. Try to lower engine braking to 2 or 3 or even less. The engine will help you brake and your braking point will be later....

Smoo
11-04-2018, 08:36
Hi. As a novice, I was wondering if anyone could give me some braking tips? I watched a Youtube hotlap/set-up video for Monza and the Porsche GT3. I have set up the car exactly the same as the guy in the video who did a 1:45 lap. I try braking at exactly the points he mentions, but I simply skid or overrun the corner. In general, I find that my braking points are quite a bit earlier than those of the AI or opponents on-line. As I said, slamming on the brakes leads to skidding and dabbing and squeezing leads to overruns. I guess a balance of the two is in order, but does anyone have any tips? Thanks

Caution If you load a ghost with different patches it changes everything from the performance of the same machine to physics.

LittleWatt
11-04-2018, 11:39
Thanks again. Not great times. I managed in the 1.49s reasonably regularly at Monza yesterday, though I was somewhat erratic. I had a spell of maybe 10-15 laps between the high 1.49s and the low 1.50s. I got the potential time down to about 1.48.3. Then it all went to pot again as I changed the settings a bit. I can corner ok if I brake early, but I noticed in my online races (the few I did) that braking early meant that people would simply ram me from behind - whether they were over optimistic about their own cornering abilities or simply were better at cornering, I can't say. So basically, I am trying to be good enough to keep out of people's way as much as anything.

Well, I don’t race online so I’m unsure of the rules but it seems me it’s their responsibility to not ram you. I mean if your lap times are equal but you brake early and exit fast that’s on them not you. Now if you’re way back in the pack that’s different and you should probably yield to them. To me it’s no different than multi class racing. Faster cars can’t go slamming into slower cars in braking zones if there isn’t a clear passing opportunity.

Smoo
11-04-2018, 12:10
Well, I donít race online so Iím unsure of the rules but it seems me itís their responsibility to not ram you. I mean if your lap times are equal but you brake early and exit fast thatís on them not you. Now if youíre way back in the pack thatís different and you should probably yield to them. To me itís no different than multi class racing. Faster cars canít go slamming into slower cars in braking zones if there isnít a clear passing opportunity.

Braking better, if you with GT3 in Monza laps 1.49 1.50 There are riders who go from step to 1 47 and time you do it in braking not straight

LittleWatt
11-04-2018, 13:20
Braking better, if you with GT3 in Monza laps 1.49 1.50 There are riders who go from step to 1 47 and time you do it in braking not straight

Are you having trouble with specific braking zones are all of them?

belaki
11-04-2018, 13:32
Thanks again. Not great times. I managed in the 1.49s reasonably regularly at Monza yesterday, though I was somewhat erratic. I had a spell of maybe 10-15 laps between the high 1.49s and the low 1.50s. I got the potential time down to about 1.48.3. Then it all went to pot again as I changed the settings a bit. I can corner ok if I brake early, but I noticed in my online races (the few I did) that braking early meant that people would simply ram me from behind - whether they were over optimistic about their own cornering abilities or simply were better at cornering, I can't say. So basically, I am trying to be good enough to keep out of people's way as much as anything.

Recommend you race off-line until you've established your own style of going slow fast. Or go to TT - a great way to learn.

At any rate, learning to drive on a race course populated by other drivers is just a perfect recipe for Mutual Assured Frustration.

Smoo
11-04-2018, 14:47
Are you having trouble with specific braking zones are all of them?


I think that the best way to go fast is to turn, to do so many laps, so many, when you have the machine in hand and you know every meter of the circuit, the Times will give you reason. Do setup is to make the car go stronger, but first it takes advantage of what you have at 100/110%
I do not want to teach you a lesson, but in detached you have to make sure that the car is able to take the point of rope, so if you notice that it comes along, the next round brakes a little earlier, this work you have to do in all the detached
Also, engaged on the guide and not on the setup, because the default setups are already very valid and allow you to go strong, experience, at Monza I touch only the brake bias at 62 Max 63 then depends on the car

LittleWatt
11-04-2018, 14:56
I think that the best way to go fast is to turn, to do so many laps, so many, when you have the machine in hand and you know every meter of the circuit, the Times will give you reason. Do setup is to make the car go stronger, but first it takes advantage of what you have at 100/110%
I do not want to teach you a lesson, but in detached you have to make sure that the car is able to take the point of rope, so if you notice that it comes along, the next round brakes a little earlier, this work you have to do in all the detached
Also, engaged on the guide and not on the setup, because the default setups are already very valid and allow you to go strong, experience, at Monza I touch only the brake bias at 62 Max 63 then depends on the car

What? Not sure where your reply is going or what it’s purpose in relation to the question I asked the other person.

pferreirag60
11-04-2018, 15:01
Donīt forget: Slow in, Fast out. Usually you can gain a lot time and gain some places. Normally a fast driver but inexperience driver will try to brake as late as he can, but if you brake a little bit sooner than him, you can pass him, because you will be able to aply throtle sooner them him.

You just have to practice and practice

Brake help: brake first, and only when you have loosed some speed, than you can start to change gears, but not before braking to the floor and starting to easy the brake pedal.

Smoo
11-04-2018, 15:14
What? Not sure where your reply is going or what itís purpose in relation to the question I asked the other person.
Sorry I responded to the other user but I quoted you

LittleWatt
11-04-2018, 15:16
Sorry I responded to the other user but I quoted you

No worries.

Mincepie10
12-04-2018, 07:04
Thanks again for the advice. I'm struggling particularly with the della Roggia chicane and Ascari. I'm braking just before the bridge for della Roggia and find that I get the angle wrong for the second part of the corner often. For Ascari, I brake around the bridge, get down to third before the first part of the corner and am on the accelerator as soon as I'm through the apex and change up probably just before Ascari but often run wide on exit nullifying the lap time. If anything I find Ascari more of a problem than della Roggia.

Smoo
12-04-2018, 07:47
Thanks again for the advice. I'm struggling particularly with the della Roggia chicane and Ascari. I'm braking just before the bridge for della Roggia and find that I get the angle wrong for the second part of the corner often. For Ascari, I brake around the bridge, get down to third before the first part of the corner and am on the accelerator as soon as I'm through the apex and change up probably just before Ascari but often run wide on exit nullifying the lap time. If anything I find Ascari more of a problem than della Roggia.
Ascari brakes on the sign 100m, try to touch the inner curb, then walk the Ascari to the right in 4a, then exit search the inner curb without cutting too much, exit touch the curb and put the 5a.

DeadByDeafult
12-04-2018, 09:46
I suggest to watch or read the braking lesson on driver61.
Its not about one specific corner, but a lot of theories about cornering and braking. I also liked the cornering and weight transfer lessons. They helped me to better understand what is happening with car and why.

Mincepie10
12-04-2018, 10:42
Thanks again. Yes. I watched the Driver 61 trail braking explanation. It certainly makes sense. Getting it right, though, is another matter. In terms of braking for Ascari - the 100 meter board? Is there one around the bridge? I don't remember seeing one. Where I go wrong is usually the right-left in the second part. I tend to miss the apex on the inside of the exit at Ascari and go too wide or if I take some of the curb on the inside, that throws me out to the right or spins me round. Obvious, getting "just the right amount" of apex is the answer, but setting the car up through Vialone (I've been looking at the track map) into Ascari is a really hit and miss affair for me still. And without the speed down the straight, the lap time is shot.

zedeeyen
12-04-2018, 14:44
I jump in and out of PCars2, AC, iRacing and R3E. They all feel a bit different as you'd expect, but the only trouble I ever have adjusting is getting used to the brakes in PCars each time. It just seems harder to hit that maximum-deceleration-without-locking point in PCars.

In fact, I can actually brake later and more consistently on a controller than I can on pedals, though that's more likely down to what an amazingly good job SMS did on the controller than any deficiency on the pedals.

LittleWatt
12-04-2018, 18:50
Thanks again. Yes. I watched the Driver 61 trail braking explanation. It certainly makes sense. Getting it right, though, is another matter. In terms of braking for Ascari - the 100 meter board? Is there one around the bridge? I don't remember seeing one. Where I go wrong is usually the right-left in the second part. I tend to miss the apex on the inside of the exit at Ascari and go too wide or if I take some of the curb on the inside, that throws me out to the right or spins me round. Obvious, getting "just the right amount" of apex is the answer, but setting the car up through Vialone (I've been looking at the track map) into Ascari is a really hit and miss affair for me still. And without the speed down the straight, the lap time is shot.

I’ll have to go to the track to get a good reminder of your situation, but just for an experiment, have you tried just rolling through the corners you’re missing? I sometimes do this with corners I struggle with in my search for the correct speed throughout the corner. I’m looking and feeling for the point where the car hooks up on its own. It’s not all that scientific or racy but it often gives me a reference point to work from. Once I feel like the car is doing what I want I’ll work backward from the exit of the corner. I’ll just roll through gradually apply more and more throttle until things get worse again. Once I feel good about my exit, I’ll continue working backward. It’s kind of like proofreading a manuscript. You read it backwards then turn it upside down and read it again. The purpose is to prevent your mind from anticipating what should come next and focuses on what is next.

Smoo
12-04-2018, 20:38
Exact

WellRED Barron
13-04-2018, 14:49
Make sure you practice driving with one leg for the brake and one for gas.

Like a tank has two levers for turning... one to turn right and one to turn left, the brake/gas on a race car work similarly with only slight wheel movements to supplement a turn until speed has been managed. The brake helps a car hit the inside, and the gas helps push a car back to the outside. Not right and left, but inside and outside... other than that, it is really like turning a tank. A really fast tank.

Brakes in racing aren’t just for slowing down. In fact, weight distribution becomes their more important task.

It is crazy complex to write it all out, but rather intuitive in practice. Feel free to start without a clutch, and just manually shift with paddles.

To fine tune trail braking, and weight management, invest in a cheap copy of Dirt Rally and practice for a week or two on uneven, unpaved surfaces you can’t easily memorize. It’ll force your hand and you will just sorta’ learn these techniques by heart by the time you become competitive against the AI... and the lessons you learn will carry right back over to PC2, just with stiffer, track suspensions so the weight distribution causes less rocking.