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View Full Version : The 2016 LMP1 cars will be faster than the 2014 LMP1 at PCars2 ?



KANETAKER
18-04-2018, 15:15
Greetings to all, I ask this question because last night I could observe in the Time Trial Mode how some lap records in some tracks that were already unreachable by themselves were broken and by a margin much greater than what already existed.

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Personally I don't complain that the Toyota TS040 LMP1 in the game has proved to be much faster than its real counterpart, with a GAP of 14 seconds at 24h LeMans track. But what I do want to express is my concern regarding the question of whether the 3 new 2016 LMP1 cars that will come in the LeMans pack (according to rumors) will have a similar or superior performance to the Toyota TS040 LMP1 currently available in the game . More than anything with an emphasis on the Toyota TS050 which is the direct successor of the Toyota TS040 and as we know in the 24 hours of LeMans 2017 beat the track record of LeMans.

As I suggested earlier, let's hope that the performance of the TS050 in the game is at least similar to the TS040, since, in case its performance is otherwise inferior, there could be more than one complaint about this. On the other hand, the pure performance would have to be judged on a single lap, considering that many players in the online multiplayer prefer to participate in short races (less than 5-10 laps), since in the case of long races it will be possible to notice better the difference in performance and its advantages and disadvantages, for example: "The new car to 1 lap would be slower than the previous one but instead has less tire wear and lower fuel consumption and higher top speed on the straights."

Other factors will also have to be considered, such as the fact that fortunately the cars in the game don't have the BoP that the FIA and ACO usually apply depending on the car and the track. In the case of LeMans I understand that the LMP1-H reduce their power from 1000 hp to 900 hp, which partly explains why the TS040 has managed to be 14 seconds faster than its real counterpart, although it also has that add other factors that are within the game such as: Optimal conditions of ambient temperature and track, no tire wear, no fuel consumption, the use of more comfortable views (the view inside the closed cockpit is uncomfortable), and most importantly: Driving 100% to the limit without fear of dying in case of suffering an accident for taking the car beyond its limits.

Another question that has to be added to the issue of the performance of the new LMP1 cars would be if the functioning of the KERS system in those 2016 cars will be the same as in real life (controlled with a button)? or will it continue to be the same one used in the current 2014 LMP1 present in the game (when pressing the throttle pedal more than 90%)? Because it is very clear that if in the current 2014 LMP1 cars present in the game the player could control the use of the KERS by means of a button, it's very likely that the TS040 could lower the lap time in LeMans up to about 2 seconds more (3:05) because there would be no need to lift the foot of the throttle pedal in some sections of the track to avoid consuming the KERS in undesirable areas (such as the "Eses" between Dunlop chicane and Tertre Rouge curve, and the small straight between Indianapolis and Arnage).

AbeWoz
18-04-2018, 15:21
IRL the LMP1 cars have a maximum fuel AND hybrid use per lap allowed at Le Mans. In-game only the amount of hybrid power is limited on a per-lap basis so it makes sense for the lap times to be much much faster in pc2 than real life.

The same will be for the new cars I assume.

However, If a driver wants to match the real-life stint lengths of 12-14 laps, some fuel saving will need to be used and lap times in-game will be pretty close to those from the real LM24.

Ofnir4
18-04-2018, 15:30
I will say this : A car cannot be balanced by what the top 0.01% of time trial-er do. I'm sure the guys testing the cars know this and do fast laps with realistic setups and hybrid usage, that way people who uses these car the way they should be do get realistic lap times (since the patch I've done 3:22 with no hybrid management at all, with consumption that makes for a 11 laps stint).

As for the Hybrid, the 2014 use a pretty close to real life model, aside from the throttle position linked to the fuel consumption. We also have cars that have manually deployable hybrid. So we can expect that at least. The thing we don't have is manual cancellation of deployment (like in an out lap or a strategic call for a pass during a race) and hybrid deployment that isn't linked to throttle position.

I won't say it's easy because nothing ever is, but I have every confidence that will be done.

Otherwise, the 2016 vintage will just be 2014 cars with more hybrid each lap.

Wait & see.

cluck
18-04-2018, 15:31
One of the reasons the Toyota can be made so quick, compared to real life, is that I know some people run a very low braking pressure. Although this means you have to brake earlier, you get far more regen (the regen is not tied to how much brake pressure is applied, only that brake pressure is applied in the first place) thus giving you more power for the next straight, compared to the normal brake pressure. That and the 5L fixed fuel amount, no need to conserve tyres, infinite retries, unrealistic setups, unrealistic driving style, the list goes on, will all contribute to laptimes that would never be achieved in real life.

As for any future cars we might get, we'll just have to wait and see.



EDIT : Ignore the first part, I thought we'd run the LMP1 race at Le Mans in pCARS2 but it was actually in pCARS1, so that part of my post isn't relevant

KANETAKER
18-04-2018, 15:33
IRL the LMP1 cars have a maximum fuel AND hybrid use per lap allowed at Le Mans. In-game only the amount of hybrid power is limited on a per-lap basis so it makes sense for the lap times to be much much faster in pc2 than real life.

The same will be for the new cars I assume.

However, If a driver wants to match the real-life stint lengths of 12-14 laps, some fuel saving will need to be used and lap times in-game will be pretty close to those from the real LM24.

In this case, my best lap time with the TS040 at LeMans with fuel saving map are 3:21, but it is similar to the time of the Pole Position achieved with the same car in real life (in 2014), and as we know in Classification you can go beyond the limit on car performance, unless, by regulation, the fuel consumption limit of the car is also applied in Classification.

Ofnir4
18-04-2018, 15:34
One of the reasons the Toyota can be made so quick, compared to real life, is that I know some people run a very low braking pressure. Although this means you have to brake earlier, you get far more regen (the regen is not tied to how much brake pressure is applied, only that brake pressure is applied in the first place) thus giving you more power for the next straight,


Thanks for the info, I wondered that myself but from 95% brake pressure from 75-80% I couldn't see a big difference in regen.

cluck
18-04-2018, 15:47
Thanks for the info, I wondered that myself but from 95% brake pressure from 75-80% I couldn't see a big difference in regen.Go lower. We were trying to work out how one of our members was so quick in the TS040 at Le Mans and that turned out to be the main trick he used (and others have used).

Thinking about it, though, this might have been pCARS1 :o (I'm just off to check when we ran that race)


EDIT : Whoops, that was on pCARS1, I'll edit my posts accordingly :o

AbeWoz
18-04-2018, 16:23
In this case, my best lap time with the TS040 at LeMans with fuel saving map are 3:21, but it is similar to the time of the Pole Position achieved with the same car in real life (in 2014), and as we know in Classification you can go beyond the limit on car performance, unless, by regulation, the fuel consumption limit of the car is also applied in Classification.

yeah LMP1 regulations specified fuel energy and hybrid energy use per lap

ELAhrairah
18-04-2018, 17:54
Already said by others, time trial laps are HIGHLY unrealistic, but I will also mention it:

- closed radiator opening
- closed brake duct
- 5L fuel
- other weird unrealistic setups (engine mapping, turbo boosts etc.) that IRL will make the car stop after 100 meters
- external driving views
- optimal track conditions

I wouldn't be surprised if the ts050 will beat the 3 minute benchmark. And I'm affraid it should.

Ofnir4
18-04-2018, 18:12
I wouldn't be surprised if the ts050 will beat the 3 minute benchmark. And I'm affraid it should.

I think you're not far off. A lot of the gap will probably depend on how the hybrid system works for the 2016 cars and how they can exploit it (the TTers). Otherwise we could only see a 3 or 4 second gap.

Stewy32
18-04-2018, 18:59
IRL the LMP1 cars have a maximum fuel AND hybrid use per lap allowed at Le Mans. In-game only the amount of hybrid power is limited on a per-lap basis so it makes sense for the lap times to be much much faster in pc2 than real life.

The same will be for the new cars I assume.

However, If a driver wants to match the real-life stint lengths of 12-14 laps, some fuel saving will need to be used and lap times in-game will be pretty close to those from the real LM24.
It is about 7 laps if you don't fuel save so yes.(About 7 litres a lap for the R18?

AbeWoz
18-04-2018, 19:19
yeah you will lose a lot of time in pits. not to mention IRL that teams only have a specified amount of tires for the race weekend.

KANETAKER
18-04-2018, 20:44
A very curious fact: Almost as if it were a coincidence with the event happened in SPA a couple of weeks ago where a modified Posrche LMP1 could be faster than a Formula 1, in the game the Toyota TS040 is proving to be faster than a Formula A, which is leaving very badly seen that type of car that is supposed to be an imitation of a Formula 1 car. Considering also that in comparison the LMP1 are easier to drive than a Formula A, and due to the strange physical and feeling of those cars is that a lot of players who love F1 prefer to continue playing in other games where F1 have a feeling and physical closer to reality.

To all this add the fact that the Formula X despite being the fastest car in the game, visually does not convey that feeling of speed and is just a few seconds faster than a Formula A as long as you know how to use your hybrid system . In this regard some players are disappointed, because many expected to see in the Formula X a really extreme car and that should have been the answer to the RedBull X1 Prototype of the Gran Turismo saga, but it turns out that the Formula X do not feel as fast as expected and also are somewhat complicated to control and drive, when one expected them to be ultramodern cars and equipped with all those technologies and gadgets that the FIA prohibits, ie a car without restrictions as well as the RedBull X1 prototype of Gran Turismo or the Porsche 919 EVO seen a couple of weeks ago.

Ofnir4
19-04-2018, 07:42
I woudn't go that far as saying the TS040 is faster than the FA, again when using the cars in "the spirit of rules", I hover around 2 mins in the real LMP1 (I don't touch these blasphemous Marek and RWD) while I'm around 10 second faster with the FA. I ma be the odd one out, but I don't really go for outright fast times, I try to be fast to consistent and also not to ruin my tyres.

But the Formula cars are indeed a little more twitchy at the rear under acceleration while you can put pedal to the metal in most situation with the LMP1s.

Stewy32
19-04-2018, 15:08
Remember it is the 2011 F1 regs,the 2017 cars are much faster.

KANETAKER
20-04-2018, 20:15
In addition to this topic I have another question: The 2016 LMP1 that will bring the game will have a single specification and appearance? Or can you bring the 2 specifications that the 3 teams have submitted between 2015 and 2017? That is, a specification with high downforce for normal tracks, and a low downforce specification for LeMans, Monza and sometimes SPA.

ELAhrairah
20-04-2018, 20:21
In addition to this topic I have another question: The 2016 LMP1 that will bring the game will have a single specification and appearance? Or can you bring the 2 specifications that the 3 teams have submitted between 2015 and 2017? That is, a specification with high downforce for normal tracks, and a low downforce specification for LeMans, Monza and sometimes SPA.

If they want to do it as it should (good) then they must come with both versions.

Stewy32
20-04-2018, 20:26
In addition to this topic I have another question: The 2016 LMP1 that will bring the game will have a single specification and appearance? Or can you bring the 2 specifications that the 3 teams have submitted between 2015 and 2017? That is, a specification with high downforce for normal tracks, and a low downforce specification for LeMans, Monza and sometimes SPA.

Pre-2015 they also had a low downforce Le Mans car.2013 and 2014 were the more memorable years before then,since pre-WEC the LMS ILMC and ALMS were all really tests for Le Mans rather than something to compete for in it's own right so they were almost always LM sec.

TexasTyme214
20-04-2018, 20:36
It would be nice to have both main aerokits for future LMP1 cars, but the two 2014 cars visually only have the LM aero. I'd also like to see fuel mapping settings automatically adjust KERS settings on car where rich=qualifying, normal=race, and lean=maximum efficiency. This sort of thing could fix lack of KERS been Arnage and Ford.

SMS will probably never answer to this thread because they would have to leak future content.

TexasTyme214
20-04-2018, 20:36
*delete*

Stewy32
21-04-2018, 16:20
It would be nice to have both main aerokits for future LMP1 cars, but the two 2014 cars visually only have the LM aero. I'd also like to see fuel mapping settings automatically adjust KERS settings on car where rich=qualifying, normal=race, and lean=maximum efficiency. This sort of thing could fix lack of KERS been Arnage and Ford.

SMS will probably never answer to this thread because they would have to leak future content.

It might be different for DLc but how the world found out about the 2014 Audi R18 e-tron quattro being in the game was by me commenting on one of their Instagram posts.

TexasTyme214
21-04-2018, 17:23
It might be different for DLc but how the world found out about the 2014 Audi R18 e-tron quattro being in the game was by me commenting on one of their Instagram posts.

WMD members knew before that, however. :p

Tar Heel
21-04-2018, 18:31
It would be nice to have both main aerokits for future LMP1 cars, but the two 2014 cars visually only have the LM aero. I'd also like to see fuel mapping settings automatically adjust KERS settings on car where rich=qualifying, normal=race, and lean=maximum efficiency. This sort of thing could fix lack of KERS been Arnage and Ford.

SMS will probably never answer to this thread because they would have to leak future content.

Did SMS address the lack of fuel saving in patch 4 or 5 when not using rich? I remember from my own testing and also a post here I believe that it was shown in some cases lean actually used more fuel while others showed almost zero difference between rich, normal, or lean.

KANETAKER
23-04-2018, 08:18
And while we await the arrival of the 2016 LMP1, the laptimes (at SPA&LeMans tracks) continue to fall in the game with the Toyota TS040 of 2014.

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The truth is that I'm even wondering if the Toyota TS050 and the Porsche 919 Hybrid (whe arriving to PCars2) can reach and beat these lap records considering that those 2 LMP1 cars are more modern (2014 vs 2016) and taking as reference the record of Kamui Kobayashi achieved with a TS050.

Also take into account the top speeds: 332-334 Km/h of the TS040 in PCars2 vs 336-337 Km/h of the TS050 of Kobayashi.

I am not considering the Audi R18 of 2016 because in LeMans it had a lower performance than the other 2 LMP1 cars, although only in the last race of 2016 (Bahrain) could they be the fastest LMP1 car.

Tank621
23-04-2018, 08:41
Well there is the possibility that the current LMP1s in game have already been BOPed to match the performance of the 2016 cars

I have no information to base that on but it could explain the elevated performance of the 2014 cars

Ofnir4
23-04-2018, 09:02
They will match or beat these times, period.

You seem to only concentrate on the time trial times though, and those are not representative times. If other classes could be cheesed or exploited like the LMP1, no record in PC2 would mean anything.

Any LMP1 car that is setup to do more than 4 laps will NOT reach 337kph and will NOT LAP under 3:14.
Frankly, what is going on in TT with the LMP1 is nothing short of an exploit (in video game sense) and should have forced SMS to adjust how the hybrid boost can be used. I certainly don't let TT setup guys stay on servers I set. Or I make sure the race at least 2 stints long as to neutralize the exploit.

let TTer do TT and let the endurance guys do endurance. One will give you nothing close to real and no useful intel, the other will give real times and boatloads of useful data. If you can't run 6 hours minimum with that setup and can't double or triple stint tyres, your setup is not viable.

You should consider the 2016 R18, we are in a game, the three cars will have their strengths and weaknesses but will be balanced around LM, so the Audi should also be quite fast.

Edit : @Tank621 : The updated tyre model seems to be a big part of the new found pace.

CastrolGT
23-04-2018, 13:15
well, I did a 10 laps race at Le Mans in the TS040. I was fuel saving all the race and I got a consistent 3:21 per laps. the fastest being a flat 3:21 and the lowest a 3:21.8xx. so yeah, I definately think that the 2016 LMP1 will be faster than the 2014 even when fuel saving. fun times ahead :D

EDIT: my top speed was around 320KPH. I don't think that we can be closer to the real one

KANETAKER
23-04-2018, 17:50
They will match or beat these times, period.

You seem to only concentrate on the time trial times though, and those are not representative times. If other classes could be cheesed or exploited like the LMP1, no record in PC2 would mean anything.

Any LMP1 car that is setup to do more than 4 laps will NOT reach 337kph and will NOT LAP under 3:14.
Frankly, what is going on in TT with the LMP1 is nothing short of an exploit (in video game sense) and should have forced SMS to adjust how the hybrid boost can be used. I certainly don't let TT setup guys stay on servers I set. Or I make sure the race at least 2 stints long as to neutralize the exploit.

let TTer do TT and let the endurance guys do endurance. One will give you nothing close to real and no useful intel, the other will give real times and boatloads of useful data. If you can't run 6 hours minimum with that setup and can't double or triple stint tyres, your setup is not viable.

You should consider the 2016 R18, we are in a game, the three cars will have their strengths and weaknesses but will be balanced around LM, so the Audi should also be quite fast.

Edit : @Tank621 : The updated tyre model seems to be a big part of the new found pace.

I just completed a race of 10 laps at LeMans with the TS040 with soft tires, my laptimes was 3:13 - 3:15 (fastest-slowest); I only make one pitstop for fuel at Lap 9 (the TS040 only can run with fuel for 8 laps with Rich map). Soft tires can be use only for 2 stints. Also, I run without ABS, TC, SC. The only detail can make the difference was this: The race don't have Mechanical Failures enabled. Then, I can push to the limits. With Mechanical Failures enabled and Hard Tires my laptimes can be more slow (3:16 - 3:20), more near to real life.

Ofnir4
23-04-2018, 18:05
I just completed a race of 10 laps at LeMans with the TS040 with soft tires, my laptimes was 3:13 - 3:15 (fastest-slowest); I only make one pitstop for fuel at Lap 9 (the TS040 only can run with fuel for 8 laps with Rich map). Soft tires can be use only for 2 stints. Also, I run without ABS, TC, SC. The only detail can make the difference was this: The race don't have Mechanical Failures enabled. Then, I can push to the limits. With Mechanical Failures enabled and Hard Tires my laptimes can be more slow (3:16 - 3:20), more near to real life.

A race setup means using race fuel setting (lean or normal) and having damage on (running no radiator opening is not realistic is the heat of june).

You are concerned (or intrigued) by those aliens lap times but you are doing the same.

Run with the following parameters :
-Engine temp (oil and water) can't go over 105c
-Mechanical damage on
-No rich fuel setting
-No saving hybrid power with lift-offs or partial throttle.
-Stint have to be at least 11 or 12 laps long

I bet you you can't get near these times with all these realistic restrictions.
That should go a long way towards answering your questions regarding 2016 pace. Take it as you may but a "spirit of the rules" lap around LM shouldn't be sub 3:20. Then give the 2016 cars a 3 to 4 seconds boost and we are on par. As I said before, you balance the performance for the average guy, not the alien or the snail.

@ CastrolGT : I think you still are up on the top speed the 2014 TS040 showed in race. :D
But the lap times are within reasons, so you are in a case of "where do you get your lap time versus where you lose it".

CastrolGT
23-04-2018, 19:08
well, IRL, the TS040 got up to 339.1KPH (free practice) source here: http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com so, I guess that I'm still a bit slow but very close to the real deal. have to try on race fuel mix, tho. I always leave it to rich as it tends to be buggy sometimes

AbeWoz
23-04-2018, 19:23
also, the #7 Toyota ran 13 lap stints for most of the race, so you will need to fuel save enough to meet those numbers. Lap times should be around 3:25's (2014 Race Data)

Ofnir4
23-04-2018, 19:57
well, IRL, the TS040 got up to 339.1KPH (free practice) source here: http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com so, I guess that I'm still a bit slow but very close to the real deal. have to try on race fuel mix, tho. I always leave it to rich as it tends to be buggy sometimes

In qualifying and the race it never got close to that, by 30kph if you believe SMS when they investigated to build the car.
Most likely it was a test to see some V-max when dumping all supercapacitor allowed charge at high speed.

KANETAKER
23-04-2018, 20:53
A race setup means using race fuel setting (lean or normal) and having damage on (running no radiator opening is not realistic is the heat of june).

You are concerned (or intrigued) by those aliens lap times but you are doing the same.

Run with the following parameters :
-Engine temp (oil and water) can't go over 105c
-Mechanical damage on
-No rich fuel setting
-No saving hybrid power with lift-offs or partial throttle.
-Stint have to be at least 11 or 12 laps long

I bet you you can't get near these times with all these realistic restrictions.
That should go a long way towards answering your questions regarding 2016 pace. Take it as you may but a "spirit of the rules" lap around LM shouldn't be sub 3:20. Then give the 2016 cars a 3 to 4 seconds boost and we are on par. As I said before, you balance the performance for the average guy, not the alien or the snail.

@ CastrolGT : I think you still are up on the top speed the 2014 TS040 showed in race. :D
But the lap times are within reasons, so you are in a case of "where do you get your lap time versus where you lose it".

I understand what you say, but I think you forget a very important detail for this game: Most of the online races in LeMans are usually configured without mechanical damage activated precisely to increase the speed factor that many of us like. Therefore the concern lies in the pure performance without considering these other factors, since otherwise the same thing that happened in the PCars1 could happen again when the Aston Martin GTE and the Corvette GTE arrived at the game; Many people were excited at the beginning to have those 2 GTE cars characteristic of LeMans, but as the days passed the people lost the desire and interest to play with those 2 cars mainly because they turned out to be slower than the GT3 cars. in which they placed those 2 cars.

In this case of the LMP1, the concern is because if the LMP1 of 2016 fail to be as fast as the LMP1 of 2014 (either in realistic conditions with damage, or in unrealized optimal conditions without damage) many people who paid for the DLC or the Seasson Pass is going to get angry a lot since they will not be able to enjoy their favorite cars because they would not have the option to fight for the victory, having to resort to the 2014 cars. Likewise, most of the online races are of short duration (less than 8 laps or less than 30 minutes), therefore, only in long races you could notice the difference in performance and the advantages and disadvantages, for example: The RWD P30 seems to be able to run about more laps (at LeMans) than the TS040 before refueling.

Ofnir4
23-04-2018, 21:11
Well don't worry too much, there are two factors that will be huge in deciding the ultimate pace of the 2016 crop : class and hybrid.

If the hybrid doesn't change from its current form, it will be as easy to exploit, we will just have more of it, that will lead to pace.

Then class, we currently don't know if the 2016 will have a class of their own, but if they do, they have to be faster, regardless of the hybrid. (Or all others thing being equal)

My personal view on this is that they will be separated from the 2014 cars, for balance and the fact that Audi and Toyota might have something to say about it. (With them having 2 cars in the same class)

KANETAKER
23-04-2018, 22:23
My personal view on this is that they will be separated from the 2014 cars, for balance and the fact that Audi and Toyota might have something to say about it. (With them having 2 cars in the same class)
At least that SMS can put available the Porsche 919 Hybrid of 2014 and 2016 for can complete the manufactures LMP1 grid (2014 and 2016). But the Marek and RWD maybe need a BoP for can gain more performance for can fight in equal conditions against 2014 and 2016 manufactures LMP1 cars. Now, the RWD only can reach 3:12 - 3:14 at Lemans against 3:06 - 3:11 of Toyota TS040 and 3:16 -3:18 of the Marek and 3:14 of Audi R18 2014.

Ofnir4
23-04-2018, 22:37
I don't think we will get the 2014 919 and sure do hope the Marek and RWD don't get a 2016 BoP or variant, I'm sick of seing these abominations filling the P1 ranks in races.
It was their purpose in PC1 with the lack of LMP1 but they outlived their usefulness, time to go. (the P2 as well)

Tank621
23-04-2018, 22:48
Well I think they are just there because of the lack of Liveries allowed on the real cars, career mode relies (or did at least) on the Marek amd RWD to fill the unique teams other wise you'd only get a few P1s in career

Azure Flare
24-04-2018, 00:25
I don't think we will get the 2014 919 and sure do hope the Marek and RWD don't get a 2016 BoP or variant, I'm sick of seing these abominations filling the P1 ranks in races.
It was their purpose in PC1 with the lack of LMP1 but they outlived their usefulness, time to go. (the P2 as well)

I'm sure Ryan and Patrick would disagree.

Sentry87
24-04-2018, 01:44
Please, please put these 2016 lmp1's in a new class. Otherwise they'll be a rarity in custom offline races.

Stone Cold Stig
24-04-2018, 04:08
Please, please put these 2016 lmp1's in a new class. Otherwise they'll be a rarity in custom offline races.

or how about giving us the option to choose cars and liveries for the ai.

it is a"custom" offline race after all.

Sentry87
24-04-2018, 04:57
or how about giving us the option to choose cars and liveries for the ai.

it is a"custom" offline race after all.


Yes, pc3 maybe

Stewy32
24-04-2018, 06:41
At least that SMS can put available the Porsche 919 Hybrid of 2014 and 2016 for can complete the manufactures LMP1 grid (2014 and 2016). But the Marek and RWD maybe need a BoP for can gain more performance for can fight in equal conditions against 2014 and 2016 manufactures LMP1 cars. Now, the RWD only can reach 3:12 - 3:14 at Lemans against 3:06 - 3:11 of Toyota TS040 and 3:16 -3:18 of the Marek and 3:14 of Audi R18 2014.
Personally I want to see the RWD and Marek cars slowed to a privateer LMP1 pace as such.

Stewy32
24-04-2018, 06:42
I don't think we will get the 2014 919 and sure do hope the Marek and RWD don't get a 2016 BoP or variant, I'm sick of seing these abominations filling the P1 ranks in races.
It was their purpose in PC1 with the lack of LMP1 but they outlived their usefulness, time to go. (the P2 as well)

I agree with you there completely.Also,I think the current RWD at least is a 2016 variation sadly,as I believe it says 2016 on the year for it in-game.

Stewy32
24-04-2018, 06:43
Well I think they are just there because of the lack of Liveries allowed on the real cars, career mode relies (or did at least) on the Marek amd RWD to fill the unique teams other wise you'd only get a few P1s in career

I would personally prefer it without.Right now you have 8 LMP1s and 4 LMP2s so why not 4 LMP1s and 8 LMP2s.

Stewy32
24-04-2018, 06:43
Please, please put these 2016 lmp1's in a new class. Otherwise they'll be a rarity in custom offline races.

I agree "LMP1-H"

Stewy32
24-04-2018, 06:45
or how about giving us the option to choose cars and liveries for the ai.

it is a"custom" offline race after all.

I think that that is for PC3.I would like the feature but I think it is a case of resources being put to use elsewhere/console storage capacity.

Also,I wouldn't mind if the game was bigger as I would happily only have PC2 and 1 or 2 other games installed,since they are all I play.

Ofnir4
24-04-2018, 08:29
Damn, quintuple post, that's impressive ! :cool:

@Tank621 : I get that the Marek and RWD have their purpose in career, but in the last few years, the LMP1-H class has never been 8 cars deep, if the 2016 cars get their own class, that's a 6 cars field and I have no problem with that (I would be the first class in the game where you know exactly how many cars you will have for each solo race). If they don't, that's a 14 cars field with 2 Audi and 2 TS0X0 competing against each other.

Again the real LMP will drown in the SMS LMP's liveries. There are some class in the game where the random livery pool selection has an adverse effect on realism and diversity. GTE has the same problem, the Vantage and M6 GTLM have too many liveries for the other cars to have a chance to be selected by the AI.

TexasTyme214
24-04-2018, 10:15
Did SMS address the lack of fuel saving in patch 4 or 5 when not using rich? I remember from my own testing and also a post here I believe that it was shown in some cases lean actually used more fuel while others showed almost zero difference between rich, normal, or lean.

From my own testing, I found that this wasn't fixed. However, non-aspirated machines, like the TS040, are working properly in this area.



http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?61337-REPORTED-Fuel-mapping-useless-for-saving-fuel/page2

Ofnir4
24-04-2018, 11:11
Which is big since all three 2016 LMP1 used turbo charged engine.

TexasTyme214
24-04-2018, 11:29
Which is big since all three 2016 LMP1 used turbo charged engine.

It's huge. If this issue isn't fixed in the patch right before the DLC, we probably won't be able to match real fuel stint lengths if the TS040 is anything to go off of.

hkraft300
24-04-2018, 15:38
It's huge. If this issue isn't fixed in the patch right before the DLC, we probably won't be able to match real fuel stint lengths if the TS040 is anything to go off of.

I hadn't played much with the fuel trim. What I noticed is that the cars use a little less fuel in lean mode. That gives less power which translates to going slower, therefore spending more time at WOT. Spending more time at WOT you end up consuming more fuel, so the net result is a negligible fuel economy benefit for a lot less pace.
Better off going rich and making that extra stop.

TexasTyme214
24-04-2018, 16:08
I hadn't played much with the fuel trim. What I noticed is that the cars use a little less fuel in lean mode. That translates to going slower, therefore spending more time at WOT. Spending more time at WOT you end up consuming more fuel, so the net result is a negligible fuel economy benefit for a lot less pace.
Better off going rich and making that extra stop.

For a lot of cars, yes this has been my same experience. I can verify that that Toyota gets more efficient overall by lowering the fuel map, but of course you still lose time per lap.

Ofnir4
24-04-2018, 16:11
I hadn't played much with the fuel trim. What I noticed is that the cars use a little less fuel in lean mode. That translates to going slower, therefore spending more time at WOT. Spending more time at WOT you end up consuming more fuel, so the net result is a negligible fuel economy benefit for a lot less pace.
Better off going rich and making that extra stop.

Not really, normally aspirated engines work fine.
The TS040 for example (going from Asturbo's reshearch into fuel mapping), you consume 25% more fuel in rich compared to lean, unless you spend 25% more time doing a lap (which is 15 seconds for each minute on the track) this is actually a better strategy. You save more fuel than you lose time and that without even taking into account the additional pit stops you have to make.

But the new crop of LMP1-H won't benefit from that econmy unless the turbos are fixed by the very same patch that will bring said LMP.

Smoked_Cheddar
02-05-2018, 16:55
I wonder if the Marek and RWD will also get a performance boost when/if the 2016 LMP1s come out. I hope so, its nice to see a different point of view in the LMP's.

Stewy32
02-05-2018, 19:00
I wonder if the Marek and RWD will also get a performance boost when/if the 2016 LMP1s come out. I hope so, its nice to see a different point of view in the LMP's.

I hope not.I think it is a shame SMS haven't took the opportunity to create a privateer LMP1 class with them,a couple of seconds off the Hybrids.

TexasTyme214
02-05-2018, 19:43
I hope not.I think it is a shame SMS haven't took the opportunity to create a privateer LMP1 class with them,a couple of seconds off the Hybrids.

This was the entire point of the Marek and RWD, to represent privateers. Casey somewhere said the cars were updated to 2016 spec, putting them in the 4MJ class to split between the Audi and Toyota, along with smaller tires per 2014+ rules. I've seen the RWD show competitive times on time attack on several road courses.

Stewy32
02-05-2018, 19:53
This was the entire point of the Marek and RWD, to represent privateers. Casey somewhere said the cars were updated to 2016 spec, putting them in the 4MJ class to split between the Audi and Toyota, along with smaller tires per 2014+ rules. I've seen the RWD show competitive times on time attack on several road courses.
Yep.The Marek definitely seems the worst of the 4,at least over 1 lap.

Smoked_Cheddar
02-05-2018, 21:39
Yep.The Marek definitely seems the worst of the 4,at least over 1 lap.

Interesting you say that, maybe i need to try the LMP 1 again, but I found the Marek to be faster than the RWD, but I think it is down to a matter of style and taste.

KANETAKER
03-05-2018, 03:29
Interesting you say that, maybe i need to try the LMP 1 again, but I found the Marek to be faster than the RWD, but I think it is down to a matter of style and taste.

Marek is very competitive at average tracks. But a true test of performance and top speed between LMP1 cars must be done at the circuit of the 24h of LeMans, the track by which these prototypes were created and have their name ( Le Mans Prototype = LMP)

Ofnir4
03-05-2018, 07:53
It's also the track on which performance are "supposed" to be balanced. Must have been done with default setup, because I'm nowhere close to my TS040/R18 times with the RWD and Marek.

I do hope the fact all 2016 cars use the same hybrid energy storage solution (lithium-ion battery) and are closer in term of MJ class than the 2014 cars will lead to a more balanced class.

AbeWoz
03-05-2018, 10:55
It's also the track on which performance are "supposed" to be balanced. Must have been done with default setup, because I'm nowhere close to my TS040/R18 times with the RWD and Marek.

I do hope the fact all 2016 cars use the same hybrid energy storage solution (lithium-ion battery) and are closer in term of MJ class than the 2014 cars will lead to a more balanced class.

IIRC, Porsche and Toyota were 8MJ, and Audi was 6MJ because it was Diesel.

KANETAKER
03-05-2018, 13:58
It's also the track on which performance are "supposed" to be balanced. Must have been done with default setup, because I'm nowhere close to my TS040/R18 times with the RWD and Marek.

I do hope the fact all 2016 cars use the same hybrid energy storage solution (lithium-ion battery) and are closer in term of MJ class than the 2014 cars will lead to a more balanced class.

The problem is that any car on the track of LeMans can't do very good times and can't be fast on that same track using only the default setup. To say that the simple fact that an LMP1 can not exceed more than 300 km/h in LeMans due to the default setup is a SACRILEGE for anyone who is supposed to like that circuit, those cars and that legendary race. Adding to the fact that the LMP2 can now reach 320 km/h using custom setups and without KERS. What would be obvious is that the person who managed to reach 3:06 - 3:10 at LeMans using the default setup is a CHEATER.

On the other hand, there was some increase in performance in the RWD and in the MAREK last November, but it has only worked on normal tracks and in those where KERS does not offer an advantage, as in the Nurburgring, for example, in the sector 1 there is KERS available, but for the other 2 sectors the LMP1 no longer have KERS and this is where Audi, Marek and RWD show to be superior to the Toyota, because apparently the other 3 cars distribute their total power in a 70% engine of combustion and 30% KERS, while the Toyota clearly does in a 50/50 engine and KERS.

And returning to the performance balance of the RWD and Marek vs. the Toyota, another problem is that it seems that the performance increase did it focusing solely on long duration races or considering the real distances of races (6, 12 and 24 hours) but not they considered the matter that many players in the online Multiplayer prefer to play quicker races of shorter duration (type "sprint", less than 30 minutes or 5-10 laps). I say this because in a race in LeMans of 10 laps I realized that the RWD can complete 10-11 laps without entering the pits to refuel, while the Toyota can only complete 8 laps; which means that in long races the RWD has the advantage of making fewer pit stops and therefore saving many seconds. In that race I almost lost against the RWD because I left the box just in front of the RWD and that the player who handled it was not the fastest with the RWD.

TexasTyme214
03-05-2018, 14:17
And returning to the performance balance of the RWD and Marek vs. the Toyota, another problem is that it seems that the performance increase did it focusing solely on long duration races or considering the real distances of races (6, 12 and 24 hours) but not they considered the matter that many players in the online Multiplayer prefer to play quicker races of shorter duration (type "sprint", less than 30 minutes or 5-10 laps). I say this because in a race in LeMans of 10 laps I realized that the RWD can complete 10-11 laps without entering the pits to refuel, while the Toyota can only complete 8 laps; which means that in long races the RWD has the advantage of making fewer pit stops and therefore saving many seconds. In that race I almost lost against the RWD because I left the box just in front of the RWD and that the player who handled it was not the fastest with the RWD.

I'm okay with the approach of balance being around longer races since that's how the FIA would approach it. However, the Toyota ought to be capable of now laps per stint I feel. I think the Toyota ought to be calibrated to get 40-45 minutes per fuel stint in normal or lean fuel mix but certainly not on rich. Based on my calculations, I can only get 38 minutes at Spa on lean mix, but it's a lot faster to do so on rich @ 36 minutes per stint. Because the Toyota was had the best results with lean mix, it can be inferred that it's useless to not use rich on every car.

Does anyone know if the hybrid cars get their 2, 4 and 6MJ limits on every track? I think that's a contributor to their extreme performance on road courses because they should have a lower hybrid limit on road courses per FIA rules. Then, you can combine that with the hybrid exploit to ensure you get 6MJ (in the Toyota) on nearly every road course.

Ofnir4
03-05-2018, 14:57
I'm okay with the approach of balance being around longer races since that's how the FIA would approach it. However, the Toyota ought to be capable of now laps per stint I feel. I think the Toyota ought to be calibrated to get 40-45 minutes per fuel stint in normal or lean fuel mix but certainly not on rich. Based on my calculations, I can only get 38 minutes at Spa on lean mix, but it's a lot faster to do so on rich @ 36 minutes per stint. Because the Toyota was had the best results with lean mix, it can be inferred that it's useless to not use rich on every car.

Does anyone know if the hybrid cars get their 2, 4 and 6MJ limits on every track? I think that's a contributor to their extreme performance on road courses because they should have a lower hybrid limit on road courses per FIA rules. Then, you can combine that with the hybrid exploit to ensure you get 6MJ (in the Toyota) on nearly every road course.

I did reach the max hybrid "allocation" so to speak at Spa once in the TS040. But since you never how much hybrid usage we have left, it's kind of counter productive to try to reach the cap by breaking way too much in every corner.


IIRC, Porsche and Toyota were 8MJ, and Audi was 6MJ because it was Diesel.

Yes, that is correct, unlike 2014 where there was two 6MJ (TS040 and 919) and one 2MJ (R18).
2015 was 8MJ (919), 6 (TS040) and 4 for the R18 but that year they sticked to Supercapacitor and Flywheel respectively.

2016 should be the "easiest" class to balance I think, key words being "I think".

Stewy32
03-05-2018, 17:20
I did reach the max hybrid "allocation" so to speak at Spa once in the TS040. But since you never how much hybrid usage we have left, it's kind of counter productive to try to reach the cap by breaking way too much in every corner.



Yes, that is correct, unlike 2014 where there was two 6MJ (TS040 and 919) and one 2MJ (R18).
2015 was 8MJ (919), 6 (TS040) and 4 for the R18 but that year they sticked to Supercapacitor and Flywheel respectively.

2016 should be the "easiest" class to balance I think, key words being "I think".

Yes I agree there.2016 should also be the easiest competition wise as it was the only year without a set pecking order(there were times in 2014 and 2015 that the quickest car changed,but it was a clear number one.So how detailed will it get:Will the Audi be quicker in warm weather?Will the Toyota be quicker at low downforce circuits?

TexasTyme214
03-05-2018, 21:15
I did reach the max hybrid "allocation" so to speak at Spa once in the TS040. But since you never how much hybrid usage we have left, it's kind of counter productive to try to reach the cap by breaking way too much in every corner.

To an extent, this is among the fastest ways around the track. The game seems to look for a minimum braking force to necessary to start recovering KERS. Above that minimum force, it seems to be that maximizing brake travel and time spent on the brakes leads to more KERS recovered. That's the name of the game in terms of improving pace.

If the Toyota has access to all 6 MJ of KERS every lap on every track, and I have a sneaking suspicion that's the case, the cars and up with wild lap times on tracks smaller than LM. This will be more extreme if/when we receive the 8 MJ LMPs.

Ofnir4
03-05-2018, 22:10
To an extent, this is among the fastest ways around the track. The game seems to look for a minimum braking force to necessary to start recovering KERS. Above that minimum force, it seems to be that maximizing brake travel and time spent on the brakes leads to more KERS recovered. That's the name of the game in terms of improving pace.

If the Toyota has access to all 6 MJ of KERS every lap on every track, and I have a sneaking suspicion that's the case, the cars and up with wild lap times on tracks smaller than LM. This will be more extreme if/when we receive the 8 MJ LMPs.

To an extent yes, time lost breaking is far out weighted by the gain under acceleration, but I would say trying to use all KERS isn't optimal outside of LM if your suspision is correct, at a track like the glen there no way to use all deployment without being slower, it's just the nature of the track. Maximize recovery while breaking for longer but there is point for each track where trying to recover too much will lead to slower pace.

The other thing I'm curious about is, do brake balance and brake impact recovery efficiency and if they do, how meaningful is it ?

TexasTyme214
03-05-2018, 22:45
To an extent yes, time lost breaking is far out weighted by the gain under acceleration, but I would say trying to use all KERS isn't optimal outside of LM if your suspision is correct, at a track like the glen there no way to use all deployment without being slower, it's just the nature of the track. Maximize recovery while breaking for longer but there is point for each track where trying to recover too much will lead to slower pace.

The other thing I'm curious about is, do brake balance and brake impact recovery efficiency and if they do, how meaningful is it ?

I haven't found brake balance to be a big factor (yet), but I find that brake pressure is monumental. At Glen, I'm faster "wasting time" on the brakes, but I'm not using all 6 MJ in the Toyota.

Ofnir4
03-05-2018, 23:06
At Glen, I'm faster "wasting time" on the brakes, but I'm not using all 6 MJ in the Toyota.

My point exacty.;) Maybe the 2016 will make that a thing of the past.

hkraft300
03-05-2018, 23:57
. At Glen, I'm faster "wasting time" on the brakes, but I'm not using all 6 MJ in the Toyota.

You’re not using all 6MJ because the track is short-ish, but your battery is full at every corner. You’re essentially driving at peak power the whole lap.

TexasTyme214
04-05-2018, 02:17
You’re not using all 6MJ because the track is short-ish, but your battery is full at every corner. You’re essentially driving at peak power the whole lap.

Correct. There also aren't a lot of massive braking zones to recover tons of energy as it is. I've run out at Spa, Road America, and CotA several times, however.


I think the 2016 cars might have the same exploit since it's still going to be the same underlying hybrid system in game? I hope to be proven wrong, but if I'm right, these things are going to be extremely quick. They might not be that far off from the 919 Evo. Current WR for Spa (PS4) is a 1:49.9. another 2 MJ and better aero would shave another couple seconds.

hkraft300
04-05-2018, 04:20
. I've run out at Spa, Road America, and CotA several times, however.


I think the 2016 cars might have the same exploit since it's still going to be the same underlying hybrid system in game?

Have you really? I need to drive the LMP1H cars more. Haven't so much in pc2.

Ye I'll bet on the same underlying hybrid code. I don't see them changing massively.

Ofnir4
04-05-2018, 09:54
Correct. There also aren't a lot of massive braking zones to recover tons of energy as it is. I've run out at Spa, Road America, and CotA several times, however.


I think the 2016 cars might have the same exploit since it's still going to be the same underlying hybrid system in game?

I hope not, it would not fit the 2016 very well.
The Iracing system is quite good in my opinion and is relatively close the real deal and at the same time is exploit-free.

But I'm afraid we won't have that kind of system too, even the Formula X, which depends as much on the hybrid as the LMP1 and was created much later, doesn't an deployment level for the lap, a pretty big lapse in judgment if you ask me.

Deploying blind with 6MJ is okay, we get used to it, deploying blind with 8MJ and higher top speed of the 2016 cars will be ridiculous, hybrid power will be wasted a high speed instead of staying in the battery for the next corner if regen is low, where it's much more efficient to deploy. Good luck holding 90% throttle all the way down Hunaudières just to have extra boost out of the kinks.

M4MKey
04-05-2018, 12:18
Correct. There also aren't a lot of massive braking zones to recover tons of energy as it is. I've run out at Spa, Road America, and CotA several times, however.


I think the 2016 cars might have the same exploit since it's still going to be the same underlying hybrid system in game? I hope to be proven wrong, but if I'm right, these things are going to be extremely quick. They might not be that far off from the 919 Evo. Current WR for Spa (PS4) is a 1:49.9. another 2 MJ and better aero would shave another couple seconds.

I don't mind the newish cars to be more aero efficient and have bigger MJ cap. But I really do hope the whole LMP1 field will stay balanced. If that meens upping all the other LMP1s to be in par with those 2016 variant, then let it be ! It would be a shame that the Marek and RWD become a no go.

TexasTyme214
04-05-2018, 13:00
But I'm afraid we won't have that kind of system too, even the Formula X, which depends as much on the hybrid as the LMP1 and was created much later, doesn't an deployment level for the lap, a pretty big lapse in judgment if you ask me.

Deploying blind with 6MJ is okay, we get used to it, deploying blind with 8MJ and higher top speed of the 2016 cars will be ridiculous, hybrid power will be wasted a high speed instead of staying in the battery for the next corner if regen is low, where it's much more efficient to deploy. Good luck holding 90% throttle all the way down Hunaudières just to have extra boost out of the kinks.

Looking at how Casey Ringley set up the other ones, he may set them up to see how much energy is used is each "burst," a full bar of hybrid boost like in the LMP1-H cars. For example, we might see 8 bursts of 1MJ or 6 bursts of 1.33MJ. Of course, if you don't fill your meter on your braking zone, you'd have some KERS left over later on. That almost sounds like something that could be in the set up screen for different tracks or different fuel mappings.

Now that I think about it, I can see the TS040 having 6 bursts of 1 MJ available. In time attack, 1 burst would go to the start finish straight. The second zone would be from Dunlop corner to Forza chicane. Forza to Michelin is the third burst. Michelin to Mulsanne is the fourth. Mulsanne to Indy is the fifth. There sixth would be after Arnage. You typically get a partial burst here if you use too much between Dunlop and Forza.

Smoked_Cheddar
04-05-2018, 16:03
This is so much fun stuff to learn! How much power these hybrid units put out. I can't wait to try them!

RacingAtHome
04-05-2018, 16:26
I don't mind the newish cars to be more aero efficient and have bigger MJ cap. But I really do hope the whole LMP1 field will stay balanced. If that meens upping all the other LMP1s to be in par with those 2016 variant, then let it be ! It would be a shame that the Marek and RWD become a no go.

I'd rather they added these into their own separate class.

KANETAKER
08-05-2018, 17:57
I'd rather they added these into their own separate class.

That would leave us with only 3 cars in a single class and only available to the owners of the DLC. I assume that SMS must be balanced the 2014 and 2016 LMP1 cars in some way, both for short races and for long-term races.

In the case of the current LMP1 available in the game, in some tracks the RWD and Marek cars are equal with Toyota and Audi, while in LeMans they are only balanced in terms of long-term races (RWD can do more laps without enter the pits), but in short races Toyota has the advantage.

TexasTyme214
08-05-2018, 18:01
That would leave us with only 3 cars in a single class and only available to the owners of the DLC. I assume that SMS must be balanced the 2014 and 2016 LMP1 cars in some way, both for short races and for long-term races.

In the case of the current LMP1 available in the game, in some tracks the RWD and Marek cars are equal with Toyota and Audi, while in LeMans they are only balanced in terms of long-term races (RWD can do more laps without enter the pits), but in short races Toyota has the advantage.

Has it ever been tested or calculated to see how balanced the class is in longer races?

AbeWoz
08-05-2018, 18:02
That would leave us with only 3 cars in a single class and only available to the owners of the DLC. I assume that SMS must be balanced the 2014 and 2016 LMP1 cars in some way, both for short races and for long-term races.

In the case of the current LMP1 available in the game, in some tracks the RWD and Marek cars are equal with Toyota and Audi, while in LeMans they are only balanced in terms of long-term races (RWD can do more laps without enter the pits), but in short races Toyota has the advantage.

the 2016 spec cars are vastly different than the other LMP1s in the game, so it makes sense that they would be in their own LMP1-H class and not have to balance with the old LMP1s that are in the game already.

Ofnir4
08-05-2018, 18:12
That would leave us with only 3 cars in a single class and only available to the owners of the DLC. I assume that SMS must be balanced the 2014 and 2016 LMP1 cars in some way, both for short races and for long-term races.

In the case of the current LMP1 available in the game, in some tracks the RWD and Marek cars are equal with Toyota and Audi, while in LeMans they are only balanced in terms of long-term races (RWD can do more laps without enter the pits), but in short races Toyota has the advantage.


We have lots of classes that are season pass holder exclusive, group B, vintage prototype A and Can-am among them and we are only at the halfway point of the season pass. (I mention these classes because they will most likely see some additions)

Personally I don't think they need to be balanced, we are not meant to be used together, one is more or less meant to replace the other. In PC1 the R18 etron and TS040 joined the non hybrid R18 and the DBR 1-2 and it honestly made no sense to me. If PC3 happens, We will most likely not see a single 2014 LMP1. Plus we are in a sim where we expect some degree of realism in term of class and performance, I don't mind racing my 1998 GT1 against a 2008 GT2 and a GT3 in forza but here it is not acceptable.

As for pace, in my hands the R18 is slower at race pace and has to do shorter stints, maybe it has a pitstop advantage (fuel flow) that I didn't see so far.

And I got Ninja'd by Abe ! The wildest margin for ninja I've seen so far.

KANETAKER
08-05-2018, 20:26
I expressed my comment that if currently there are very few lobbies of LMP1 (in PC / Steam), if they are separated into 2 different classes, the situation could get worse, unless there is some way to incentivize the people who are encouraged to play in multiclass races. Another problem is that it is related to the issue of license points, the fewer cars in the lobby less points will be at stake.

With saying that I have had many times the bad experience of having lost many hours of play in vain when running in multi-class rooms with LMP1, LMP2 and GTE, where the vast majority choose the GTE, leaving me practically alone in the LMP1 class and therefore not gaining any single point, but instead I have the risk of losing more than 40 points in case of a race incident that ends up behind the GTE.

On the other hand, an overexploitation of the same system could occur in conjunction with the separation of classes in LMP1, assuming that the 2016 LMP1 would be a category higher than the LMP1 2014, and then some experienced and fast players with the LMP1 2014 could abuse those players who are slow with the 2016 LMP1 and earn extra points because the system grants extra points if you finish ahead of a higher category car ... as happens sometimes in some combined races between the LMP900, LMP2, Group C, Porsche Can-Am, and also between GT3 and GTE.

But likewise, I understand that some want to avoid "Pay to Win" complaints (those with have the new LeMans DLC have an advantage)

It is a big dilemma. But in my case I am concerned that there are very few players available to run with the new 2016 LMP1 on PC / Steam. Unfortunately the vast majority still prefer GT3 races ... I hope those GT3 dirvers have not acquired the LeMans DLC because they would honestly be wasting their money to pay for cars they will NEVER use (they have the GT3 in their blood). At least in my case I have tried a bit of everything, although mostly prototypes.

TexasTyme214
08-05-2018, 21:23
That is mostly the case on PS4 also. I prefer keeping all the cars together in LMP1 and phasing out the old ones in the next game. I wish there were more players out there that enjoyed LMP/multipmclass in quick lobbies. I shouldn't have to resort to leagues every time I don't want to drive GT3/GTE.

Sentry87
08-05-2018, 21:54
Well.... If i may speak for the offline players. The issue with keeping 2014, 2016 cars in the same class is we'll get a lack of representation of the new 2016 lmp1s on the grid thanks to the game randomly generating the a.i. opponents based on the liveries available. There's a dozen liveries for each the marek and rwd but only two for each of the lmp1h factory cars.

Ofnir4
08-05-2018, 22:01
Well.... If i may speak for the offline players. The issue with keeping 2014, 2016 cars in the same class is we'll get a lack of representation of the new 2016 lmp1s on the grid thanks to the game randomly generating the a.i. opponents based on the liveries available. There's a dozen liveries for each the marek and rwd but only two for each of the lmp1h factory cars.

But at the same, a new class means no proper career integration.

Tar Heel
09-05-2018, 01:59
But at the same, a new class means no proper career integration.

Not necessarily. Maybe SMS make a change to career to account for the new LMP1s and have them replace the older ones. I know it is probably a long shot, but maybe that change occurs. If it doesn't I don't think that would kill the career mode. Also adding a custom championship with this next patch would fix a lot of people's complaints with the career mode restrictions of grids and so on.

I personally would like them separated as an offline racer. I know it would be really frustrating as a console offline racers to try and create custom races and to get a grid featuring the 2016 LMP1s without them being pushed out for the fantasy or even 2014 factory LMP1s.

I don't think there will be a solution that will satisfy everyone, but IMO adding an LMP1-H group makes the most sense as their performance should definitely be better than the 2014. Just my $0.02 though.

Stewy32
09-05-2018, 06:39
Not necessarily. Maybe SMS make a change to career to account for the new LMP1s and have them replace the older ones. I know it is probably a long shot, but maybe that change occurs. If it doesn't I don't think that would kill the career mode. Also adding a custom championship with this next patch would fix a lot of people's complaints with the career mode restrictions of grids and so on.

I personally would like them separated as an offline racer. I know it would be really frustrating as a console offline racers to try and create custom races and to get a grid featuring the 2016 LMP1s without them being pushed out for the fantasy or even 2014 factory LMP1s.

I don't think there will be a solution that will satisfy everyone, but IMO adding an LMP1-H group makes the most sense as their performance should definitely be better than the 2014. Just my $0.02 though.

Custom Championship almost certainly won't come at all for this game.I would like a LMP1-H and LMP1 split though,and for the LMP1 slow the Marek and RWD to LMP1-L pace.

Stewy32
09-05-2018, 06:40
That is mostly the case on PS4 also. I prefer keeping all the cars together in LMP1 and phasing out the old ones in the next game. I wish there were more players out there that enjoyed LMP/multipmclass in quick lobbies. I shouldn't have to resort to leagues every time I don't want to drive GT3/GTE.

I think the 2014 LMP1-Hs will be phased out for the next game.

Ofnir4
09-05-2018, 07:31
Not necessarily. Maybe SMS make a change to career to account for the new LMP1s and have them replace the older ones. I know it is probably a long shot, but maybe that change occurs. If it doesn't I don't think that would kill the career mode. Also adding a custom championship with this next patch would fix a lot of people's complaints with the career mode restrictions of grids and so on.


That is basically putting the higher tier endurance stuff behind a pay wall. For the rest, I completely agree

headder
09-05-2018, 12:23
I think the same as a lot o people here.

The LMP1's from the upcoming DLC, should be derrived into new class LMP1-H in order to seperate them from the old ones. That would allow players to create more realistic grid. However we should have also an option to seperate fictional LMP2's from the real ones.

Stewy32
09-05-2018, 18:22
I think the same as a lot o people here.

The LMP1's from the upcoming DLC, should be derrived into new class LMP1-H in order to seperate them from the old ones. That would allow players to create more realistic grid. However we should have also an option to seperate fictional LMP2's from the real ones.

I know custom grids probably won't come but maybe add a "Real,Fictional,All" slider beneath the "Identical,Same Class,Multi Class" one.

APR193
09-05-2018, 19:05
I know custom grids probably won't come but maybe add a "Real,Fictional,All" slider beneath the "Identical,Same Class,Multi Class" one.

If I could like this post 100 times I would. This would improve so many classes in the game for offline play

Scuderia Paul
12-05-2018, 17:48
I know custom grids probably won't come but maybe add a "Real,Fictional,All" slider beneath the "Identical,Same Class,Multi Class" one.
Very good idea that, and far more straightforward to implement than custom grids for this issue.

Stewy32
12-05-2018, 18:21
Very good idea that, and far more straightforward to implement than custom grids for this issue.

Yeah I agree.

KANETAKER
12-05-2018, 19:34
Based on the previous Porsche DLC, theoretically in the next week we should be able to find out more about the next LeMans DLC, unless this time there is more rigorous control on YouTube about filtered material ... In the case Previous, around February 15 or 17 someone leaked videos and images of the Porsche DLC, and we are currently close to that same time range, unless some setback or delay has occurred, and just with the most anticipated DLC by all ... except perhaps for the extreme fans of the GT3; these people may continue to play with the GT3 (until the death) in PCars 2 and PCars3 even though another rival company has announced a game focused only on GT3.

Stewy32
12-05-2018, 19:53
Based on the previous Porsche DLC, theoretically in the next week we should be able to find out more about the next LeMans DLC, unless this time there is more rigorous control on YouTube about filtered material ... In the case Previous, around February 15 or 17 someone leaked videos and images of the Porsche DLC, and we are currently close to that same time range, unless some setback or delay has occurred, and just with the most anticipated DLC by all ... except perhaps for the extreme fans of the GT3; these people may continue to play with the GT3 (until the death) in PCars 2 and PCars3 even though another rival company has announced a game focused only on GT3.

The leak was more patch related since the patch that was released around then contained the DLC files so some people went through the files to access the DLC content.

CSL-Drive
12-05-2018, 20:07
Funny thing I noticed, which could possibly, almost neglectably, used for cheating. Is in an lmp1 in this game, you can break harder while pressing continue to press throttle a bit, car will mostly stop same spot if you do it right, and you get allot of extra charge xD I guess that makes sense then about the fuel limit in real life. Otherwise they'd just installed a nuclear reactor to keep it charing. lol

TexasTyme214
12-05-2018, 20:49
Funny thing I noticed, which could possibly, almost neglectably, used for cheating. Is in an lmp1 in this game, you can break harder while pressing continue to press throttle a bit, car will mostly stop same spot if you do it right, and you get allot of extra charge xD I guess that makes sense then about the fuel limit in real life. Otherwise they'd just installed a nuclear reactor to keep it charing. lol

Yes! I have to do this fairly often.

hkraft300
13-05-2018, 01:36
Not really cheating. You’re just dragging the brakes a little longer which is recharging your battery. Same as reducing your brake pressure to brake for longer and use the regeneration system.

It’s like normal stick shift vs heel toe.
If you put in the effort to master an advanced technique, you gain the advantage.

Irl I don’t think your engineers will love you for it.

TexasTyme214
13-05-2018, 05:23
Not really cheating. You’re just dragging the brakes a little longer which is recharging your battery. Same as reducing your brake pressure to brake for longer and use the regeneration system.

It’s like normal stick shift vs heel toe.
If you put in the effort to master an advanced technique, you gain the advantage.

Irl I don’t think your engineers will love you for it.

I personally see it as an exploit SMS should address. Purposely increasing the braking zones knocks several seconds off of your lap times, at least in the Toyota. It doesn't seem like something that is done in real life. It seems weird to me that late, hard braking in these cars leads to slower lap times. It would be different if the game looked at braking force and time to fill up your KERS rather than seemingly brake pedal travel and time. Setting the brake pressure high and using half the brake pedal travel doesn't net the same large energy recovery per braking zone as low brake pressure and high brake pedal travel. This exploit works even better when you have 6MJ on every track in the Toyota also, rather than setting the maximum energy released limit to be proportional to the track length.

In the end, we are seeing much quicker lap times on road courses. As previously discussed, the lap times drop further when you run minimum radiator, brake ducts, etc.

KANETAKER
13-05-2018, 07:02
I personally see it as an exploit SMS should address. Purposely increasing the braking zones knocks several seconds off of your lap times, at least in the Toyota. It doesn't seem like something that is done in real life. It seems weird to me that late, hard braking in these cars leads to slower lap times. It would be different if the game looked at braking force and time to fill up your KERS rather than seemingly brake pedal travel and time. Setting the brake pressure high and using half the brake pedal travel doesn't net the same large energy recovery per braking zone as low brake pressure and high brake pedal travel. This exploit works even better when you have 6MJ on every track in the Toyota also, rather than setting the maximum energy released limit to be proportional to the track length.

In the end, we are seeing much quicker lap times on road courses. As previously discussed, the lap times drop further when you run minimum radiator, brake ducts, etc.

Why does that hobby of some in wanting to match performance down, instead of matching performance up? It is true that both RWD and Marek already had an increase in performance in the December update but apparently it has not been enough for some players. Ironic ... because precisely one of the complaints in the previous game (PC1) was that the RWD was faster than the real cars and wanted either a RWD nerf or a performance improvement in the real LMP1. In the end, none of the 2 things was done; however, following the record of Kobayashi in LeMans 2017, many players were encouraged to use the TS040 more frequently and then the RWD was displaced as the best LMP1 in the game.

Likewise, in recent days following the record in SPA at the hands of the Porsche 919 EVO, many players began to try to further lower the TT times of the SPA circuit although using the TS040.

At this point a change in the performance of the TS040 but for nerf would be very negative for those who use that car, because as happened in November 2015 with the change of tires, this would mean throwing many hours, days, weeks on the ground and months of work and effort on the part of those who in addition to being fast have managed precisely to prepare some excellent setups for the Toyota.

On the other hand, in the case of the Audi, you should remember that in the 2014 WEC season the Toyota was far superior to Audi, and in LeMans they were dominating, losing only by accident and technical failures, but not by performance.

As for what you say about a supposed exploit, you should observe real onboard videos of the LMP1-H, and you will notice that unlike other cars, the LMP1-H decelerate or brake earlier than non-hybrid cars. Consider also the fact that both the LMP1 and other cars in the game apparently do not have the restrictions or the BoP that the FIA ​​usually imposes in real life, which is why we see times much faster than in real life, together to the fact that by not dying in a video game players can take cars beyond their limits without fear of dying in an accident.

Ofnir4
13-05-2018, 11:00
Why does that hobby of some in wanting to match performance down, instead of matching performance up? It is true that both RWD and Marek already had an increase in performance in the December update but apparently it has not been enough for some players. Ironic ... because precisely one of the complaints in the previous game (PC1) was that the RWD was faster than the real cars and wanted either a RWD nerf or a performance improvement in the real LMP1. In the end, none of the 2 things was done; however, following the record of Kobayashi in LeMans 2017, many players were encouraged to use the TS040 more frequently and then the RWD was displaced as the best LMP1 in the game.

Likewise, in recent days following the record in SPA at the hands of the Porsche 919 EVO, many players began to try to further lower the TT times of the SPA circuit although using the TS040.

At this point a change in the performance of the TS040 but for nerf would be very negative for those who use that car, because as happened in November 2015 with the change of tires, this would mean throwing many hours, days, weeks on the ground and months of work and effort on the part of those who in addition to being fast have managed precisely to prepare some excellent setups for the Toyota.

On the other hand, in the case of the Audi, you should remember that in the 2014 WEC season the Toyota was far superior to Audi, and in LeMans they were dominating, losing only by accident and technical failures, but not by performance.

As for what you say about a supposed exploit, you should observe real onboard videos of the LMP1-H, and you will notice that unlike other cars, the LMP1-H decelerate or brake earlier than non-hybrid cars. Consider also the fact that both the LMP1 and other cars in the game apparently do not have the restrictions or the BoP that the FIA ​​usually imposes in real life, which is why we see times much faster than in real life, together to the fact that by not dying in a video game players can take cars beyond their limits without fear of dying in an accident.

I think it's kind of an exploit too in some degree. I'm not a thermodynamic expert but I expect braking from 300kph down to 0 creates a certain amount of energy, whether you do it in 50m and gets a short surge of that energy or in 150m and get a longer, weaker charge that amount to the same charge in the end, because you just did the same thing.
There may be an efficiency difference that gives a 80% brake pressure an advantage, but I don't think contentiously decreasing it will give increasingly better return on investment.

Then you have brake balance, it seems to have no impact but these 2014 cars did all the recovery from the front axle, meaning to get the most out of your 80% pressure, you would need to use 70% balance (biased foward), meaning you have to sacrifice your feeling or balance under braking to get more energy. It's not the case, run 54% or 67%, you'll get the same recovery (or there is simply not enough difference to warrant it) meaning you can have a smooth ride along the track without any of the real life downsides.

If I had a dev version of the game, I'd like to try the old formula B KERS system, one where you can't save, overwrite it, you can't do 89% throttle and save it and once it's going, it's going all the way.
Which to me describe the way the 2014 cars used it. Brake, use it until empty, repeat until MJ allocation is done. Not this silly braking in idiotic ways, use 89% throttle until a certain point, then dump it, brake with 50% brake pressure to get it all back and repeat.
This is an exploit.

For the performance, I've had this conversation a couple of times before, if the TS040 can do 2017 TS050 or 919 evo Times, you know something needs to be done, I won't call it balancing because balancing is something you do for the intended "spirit of LMP1" use, not the TT exploits.

I don't mind people doing it in TT, TT is its own realm, they can apply them as they want. But once you get in lobbies, using it is cheating to me. Plain and simple.

TexasTyme214
13-05-2018, 11:22
I am not saying to nerf the Toyota alone. I'm saying to revisit the entire KERS system the game runs under if it's unrealistic that we can fill up our KERS on nearly every corner by lowering brake pressure along with overlapping brake and throttle usage.

Even with lifting before braking zones, lean mixture, full fuel, hard tires, full damage, tire wear, mechanical failures, etc I am capable of 1:56s-1:57s around Spa. In 2014, the Toyota never stepped below 2:00, often in the 2:01-2:03 region. I think that has a lot to do with the hybrid exploit and the KERS allocation not being reduced for tracks shorter than LM.

It shouldn't matter how long people spent on this car or who likes it. LMP1-H cars are braking earlier than non-hybrid LMP1 but they shouldn't be earlier or on par with GTE, where I tend to be braking. The entire class itself is too fast, but the Toyota is one of the biggest offenders thanks to how the hybrid system works out. I'd like to see SMS at least take a look at this area of the game and see if they can squeeze more realism out of it.

hkraft300
13-05-2018, 12:20
I personally see it as an exploit SMS should address. Purposely increasing the braking zones knocks several seconds off of your lap times, at least in the Toyota. It doesn't seem like something that is done in real life. It seems weird to me that late, hard braking in these cars leads to slower lap times. It would be different if the game looked at braking force and time to fill up your KERS rather than seemingly brake pedal travel and time. Setting the brake pressure high and using half the brake pedal travel doesn't net the same large energy recovery per braking zone as low brake pressure and high brake pedal travel. This exploit works even better when you have 6MJ on every track in the Toyota also, rather than setting the maximum energy released limit to be proportional to the track length.

In the end, we are seeing much quicker lap times on road courses. As previously discussed, the lap times drop further when you run minimum radiator, brake ducts, etc.

I don't disagree. I think the regeneration mapping should be a little refined to remove exploits like not being reliant on braking distance so much.

Also +1 for more accurate performance of the cars to RL. Whether it be faster or slower.

CSL-Drive
13-05-2018, 18:48
That is mostly the case on PS4 also. I prefer keeping all the cars together in LMP1 and phasing out the old ones in the next game. I wish there were more players out there that enjoyed LMP/multipmclass in quick lobbies. I shouldn't have to resort to leagues every time I don't want to drive GT3/GTE.
So much agreed that my soul exited my body to join yours in request.

I wish infact, that there were so many players, that every motorsport class had infinite amount of divisions for each different skill rating in that motorsport class. Lets say 12 divisions of skillrating to sort out the players per vehicle class.

And I want there to be so many players, that even the least popular of these 500+ different times 50 for the amount of tracks. Lets say 20 thousand different races going on at the same time, with 30 players per race. But, were not done.

I want there to be so many players, that joining a game has a queue of max 0.000001 second. So lets say approximate 7 billion people connected to a quantum computer of sms, and then FINALLY! WE CAN RACE WHAT WE WANT WHEN WE WANT WITH THE EXACT PEOPLE WE WANT OF OUR ABSOLUTE EQUAL SKILL LEVEL =D

Great idea isnt it? =)

I think developers should look into making a sim racing title that focuses entirely on perfecting 1 vehicle and one track. Then, you have endless competition online. The only way it works. Like iracing. Everyone is racing mazda roadster 24/7

Stewy32
13-05-2018, 20:13
So much agreed that my soul exited my body to join yours in request.

I wish infact, that there were so many players, that every motorsport class had infinite amount of divisions for each different skill rating in that motorsport class. Lets say 12 divisions of skillrating to sort out the players per vehicle class.

And I want there to be so many players, that even the least popular of these 500+ different times 50 for the amount of tracks. Lets say 20 thousand different races going on at the same time, with 30 players per race. But, were not done.

I want there to be so many players, that joining a game has a queue of max 0.000001 second. So lets say approximate 7 billion people connected to a quantum computer of sms, and then FINALLY! WE CAN RACE WHAT WE WANT WHEN WE WANT WITH THE EXACT PEOPLE WE WANT OF OUR ABSOLUTE EQUAL SKILL LEVEL =D

Great idea isnt it? =)

I think developers should look into making a sim racing title that focuses entirely on perfecting 1 vehicle and one track. Then, you have endless competition online. The only way it works. Like iracing. Everyone is racing mazda roadster 24/7

The thing is that would probably be GT3@Monza for SMS,as that is what is played.But I definitely prefer a variety of racing and avoid GT3 lobbies.

KANETAKER
20-05-2018, 04:26
A few hours ago I just played a 30-minute race in LeMans under relatively real conditions (variable weather, day-night-day transition, tire wear and fuel consumption, activated mechanical failures) except for the race date that was in August although that was the best because in real life despite the race being held in June, within the game every race held in June has warm weather both day and night, but in real life it is hot by day and cold at night during the 24 hours of LeMans, so it was something successful on the part of the host to change the date within the game from June to August.

During the development of the 30 minute race, my best lap time was 3:17 with the "rich" fuel map, while during the cold night my times were above 3:22 - 3:23 as well that during the laps where I had to use the "Lean" fuel map to save fuel and be able to complete the 30 minute race without having to enter the pits to refuel.

254727254728254729254730

Also note that on this occasion I could not make lap times less than 3:14 due mainly to mechanical failures activated. In fact, I finished the race with just over 3 points of damage to the engine. With the mechanical faults activated, it is necessary to drive in a more realistic way:

- To have more open the radiator and the ventilation ducts of the brakes.
- You can not abuse the brakes (having to take care of them), which implies (in the case of the TS040) not being able to recharge as much KERS as one would like, and its impact is reflected in a lower top speed than those seen in the time trial mode: 320 km / h vs 334 km / h.
- Fast gear changes must be made to avoid overheating and damage to the engine. That means not being able to abuse the combination of the use of the KERS together with a change of gear late (at the time the tachometer lights are flashing red) which was used to obtain higher top speed.

As I mentioned earlier, I ended up with 3 damage to the engine after 30 minutes of racing ... so imagine if the race had lasted 24 hours ...

It should be noted that that time of 3:17 was partly due to the fact that I used soft tires during the 30 minute race and I did not use the view from inside the cockpit. If you had to use hard tires as it is usually in the 24 hours of LeMans (due to the restrictions of the number of tire sets available for the entire race and to save full service stops) and having to use the internal view of the cockpit, Surely my best time per lap would have been higher than 3: 21-3: 22 ... precisely the lap times recorded by the TS040 in the 24h of LeMans 2014.

In this race my biggest GAP with the 2nd place was 20 seconds but I finished the race with just 6 seconds of advantage due to the fuel saving mode and because having mechanical faults activated I could not push as much as I usually do in those races without mechanical failures, besides that I am not very good driving with cold tires (at night with low temperatures). Otherwise, in optimal conditions and without mechanical failures, I would have finished the race with a difference of almost 1 minute over the 2nd place.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope that with this explanation some users stop with their speculations, suspicions and accusations about some exploits. These "exploits" as they claim, can't be exploited under conditions similar to those of real life.

That is ... if you are looking for races with cars and performance as close as possible to the real ones, then, when you are the host of a lobby, configure the conditions of the event in the most real way possible ... although in some cases it would imply a rather long race duration, at least a race duration that implies having to use the fuel saving mode or a less aggressive driving style or setups.

Tar Heel
20-05-2018, 05:20
A few hours ago I just played a 30-minute race in LeMans under relatively real conditions (variable weather, day-night-day transition, tire wear and fuel consumption, activated mechanical failures) except for the race date that was in August although that was the best because in real life despite the race being held in June, within the game every race held in June has warm weather both day and night, but in real life it is hot by day and cold at night during the 24 hours of LeMans, so it was something successful on the part of the host to change the date within the game from June to August.

During the development of the 30 minute race, my best lap time was 3:17 with the "rich" fuel map, while during the cold night my times were above 3:22 - 3:23 as well that during the laps where I had to use the "Lean" fuel map to save fuel and be able to complete the 30 minute race without having to enter the pits to refuel.

254727254728254729254730

Also note that on this occasion I could not make lap times less than 3:14 due mainly to mechanical failures activated. In fact, I finished the race with just over 3 points of damage to the engine. With the mechanical faults activated, it is necessary to drive in a more realistic way:

- To have more open the radiator and the ventilation ducts of the brakes.
- You can not abuse the brakes (having to take care of them), which implies (in the case of the TS040) not being able to recharge as much KERS as one would like, and its impact is reflected in a lower top speed than those seen in the time trial mode: 320 km / h vs 334 km / h.
- Fast gear changes must be made to avoid overheating and damage to the engine. That means not being able to abuse the combination of the use of the KERS together with a change of gear late (at the time the tachometer lights are flashing red) which was used to obtain higher top speed.

As I mentioned earlier, I ended up with 3 damage to the engine after 30 minutes of racing ... so imagine if the race had lasted 24 hours ...

It should be noted that that time of 3:17 was partly due to the fact that I used soft tires during the 30 minute race and I did not use the view from inside the cockpit. If you had to use hard tires as it is usually in the 24 hours of LeMans (due to the restrictions of the number of tire sets available for the entire race and to save full service stops) and having to use the internal view of the cockpit, Surely my best time per lap would have been higher than 3: 21-3: 22 ... precisely the lap times recorded by the TS040 in the 24h of LeMans 2014.

In this race my biggest GAP with the 2nd place was 20 seconds but I finished the race with just 6 seconds of advantage due to the fuel saving mode and because having mechanical faults activated I could not push as much as I usually do in those races without mechanical failures, besides that I am not very good driving with cold tires (at night with low temperatures). Otherwise, in optimal conditions and without mechanical failures, I would have finished the race with a difference of almost 1 minute over the 2nd place.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope that with this explanation some users stop with their speculations, suspicions and accusations about some exploits. These "exploits" as they claim, can't be exploited under conditions similar to those of real life.

That is ... if you are looking for races with cars and performance as close as possible to the real ones, then, when you are the host of a lobby, configure the conditions of the event in the most real way possible ... although in some cases it would imply a rather long race duration, at least a race duration that implies having to use the fuel saving mode or a less aggressive driving style or setups.

Very nice write up KANETAKER. I think people look at one lap pace or short races too often as the benchmark for determining a cars performance in game. The reality is the circumstances in which they based their judgements are under unrealistic or unsustainable settings that would never be possible or really seen in RL.

Sure you can brake and hit the gas at the same time to get more KERS and over the span of even a 30 minute race that probably wouldn't impact you, but if you did that over a 6 hour or 24 hour race you'd kill your brakes and be stuck in the pits too long.

I challenge someone to do a true endurance race (at least 4 hours) trying to exploit the LMP1s as much as possible, using a LB setup, under realistic settings (mechanical damage, tire wear, fuel etc). I guarantee the engine, brakes, or something else will fail way before the end of the race.

And for anyone that wants to argue (you can still run aggressively fast in qualifying with no penalty) I won't disagree, but that is because mechanical damage, tire wear, tire limits, etc do not carry over from qualifying to the race. If at least tire wear and number of tires available did we would probably see less abuse in qualifying as well.

I'm also not saying everything is perfect with the LMP1s either. I personally would like to see a change to the KERS system in regards to how it deploys, but their performance in game is pretty spot on IF you treat them realistically. The people who have found ways to blow past the RL performance of the LMP1s or any car in game have just found loops holes for short term performance gains that would never be sustainable in RL.

TexasTyme214
20-05-2018, 06:54
I'd argue that not having to save fuel and lower KERS limits, similar to real life, on tracks ~*smaller*~ than Le Mans allows the KERS exploit to lead to inflated pace, even in longer races. You can set the car to repair everything at every pit stop. You cannot do heavy damage to the engine or brakes with moderate radiator and low brake pressure respectively. I have post somewhere in this thread where where I was seconds faster than the real pace of the original TS040 at Spa. I was still using hards and double stinting the tires, lapping 3 seconds faster than the real car. If you repair the car after every stop, including the brakes, you won't spend enough time in the pits to deter you from exploiting KERS. The total length of the race doesn't really matter in the end with constant, fast repairs. LM is one of the worst places to validate this because it's impossible (?) to have KERS after every slower corner without lifting the throttle in spots.

Stewy32
20-05-2018, 10:08
A few hours ago I just played a 30-minute race in LeMans under relatively real conditions (variable weather, day-night-day transition, tire wear and fuel consumption, activated mechanical failures) except for the race date that was in August although that was the best because in real life despite the race being held in June, within the game every race held in June has warm weather both day and night, but in real life it is hot by day and cold at night during the 24 hours of LeMans, so it was something successful on the part of the host to change the date within the game from June to August.

During the development of the 30 minute race, my best lap time was 3:17 with the "rich" fuel map, while during the cold night my times were above 3:22 - 3:23 as well that during the laps where I had to use the "Lean" fuel map to save fuel and be able to complete the 30 minute race without having to enter the pits to refuel.

254727254728254729254730

Also note that on this occasion I could not make lap times less than 3:14 due mainly to mechanical failures activated. In fact, I finished the race with just over 3 points of damage to the engine. With the mechanical faults activated, it is necessary to drive in a more realistic way:

- To have more open the radiator and the ventilation ducts of the brakes.
- You can not abuse the brakes (having to take care of them), which implies (in the case of the TS040) not being able to recharge as much KERS as one would like, and its impact is reflected in a lower top speed than those seen in the time trial mode: 320 km / h vs 334 km / h.
- Fast gear changes must be made to avoid overheating and damage to the engine. That means not being able to abuse the combination of the use of the KERS together with a change of gear late (at the time the tachometer lights are flashing red) which was used to obtain higher top speed.

As I mentioned earlier, I ended up with 3 damage to the engine after 30 minutes of racing ... so imagine if the race had lasted 24 hours ...

It should be noted that that time of 3:17 was partly due to the fact that I used soft tires during the 30 minute race and I did not use the view from inside the cockpit. If you had to use hard tires as it is usually in the 24 hours of LeMans (due to the restrictions of the number of tire sets available for the entire race and to save full service stops) and having to use the internal view of the cockpit, Surely my best time per lap would have been higher than 3: 21-3: 22 ... precisely the lap times recorded by the TS040 in the 24h of LeMans 2014.

In this race my biggest GAP with the 2nd place was 20 seconds but I finished the race with just 6 seconds of advantage due to the fuel saving mode and because having mechanical faults activated I could not push as much as I usually do in those races without mechanical failures, besides that I am not very good driving with cold tires (at night with low temperatures). Otherwise, in optimal conditions and without mechanical failures, I would have finished the race with a difference of almost 1 minute over the 2nd place.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope that with this explanation some users stop with their speculations, suspicions and accusations about some exploits. These "exploits" as they claim, can't be exploited under conditions similar to those of real life.

That is ... if you are looking for races with cars and performance as close as possible to the real ones, then, when you are the host of a lobby, configure the conditions of the event in the most real way possible ... although in some cases it would imply a rather long race duration, at least a race duration that implies having to use the fuel saving mode or a less aggressive driving style or setups.

This is all very good to know.

Stewy32
20-05-2018, 10:09
Driving not even overly aggressively or quickly does around 1 damage every 2 1/2 laps at Le Mans(or around that).

Ofnir4
20-05-2018, 10:20
A few hours ago I just played a 30-minute race in LeMans under relatively real conditions (variable weather, day-night-day transition, tire wear and fuel consumption, activated mechanical failures) except for the race date that was in August although that was the best because in real life despite the race being held in June, within the game every race held in June has warm weather both day and night, but in real life it is hot by day and cold at night during the 24 hours of LeMans, so it was something successful on the part of the host to change the date within the game from June to August.

During the development of the 30 minute race, my best lap time was 3:17 with the "rich" fuel map, while during the cold night my times were above 3:22 - 3:23 as well that during the laps where I had to use the "Lean" fuel map to save fuel and be able to complete the 30 minute race without having to enter the pits to refuel.

Also note that on this occasion I could not make lap times less than 3:14 due mainly to mechanical failures activated. In fact, I finished the race with just over 3 points of damage to the engine. With the mechanical faults activated, it is necessary to drive in a more realistic way:

- To have more open the radiator and the ventilation ducts of the brakes.
- You can not abuse the brakes (having to take care of them), which implies (in the case of the TS040) not being able to recharge as much KERS as one would like, and its impact is reflected in a lower top speed than those seen in the time trial mode: 320 km / h vs 334 km / h.
- Fast gear changes must be made to avoid overheating and damage to the engine. That means not being able to abuse the combination of the use of the KERS together with a change of gear late (at the time the tachometer lights are flashing red) which was used to obtain higher top speed.

As I mentioned earlier, I ended up with 3 damage to the engine after 30 minutes of racing ... so imagine if the race had lasted 24 hours ...

It should be noted that that time of 3:17 was partly due to the fact that I used soft tires during the 30 minute race and I did not use the view from inside the cockpit. If you had to use hard tires as it is usually in the 24 hours of LeMans (due to the restrictions of the number of tire sets available for the entire race and to save full service stops) and having to use the internal view of the cockpit, Surely my best time per lap would have been higher than 3: 21-3: 22 ... precisely the lap times recorded by the TS040 in the 24h of LeMans 2014.

In this race my biggest GAP with the 2nd place was 20 seconds but I finished the race with just 6 seconds of advantage due to the fuel saving mode and because having mechanical faults activated I could not push as much as I usually do in those races without mechanical failures, besides that I am not very good driving with cold tires (at night with low temperatures). Otherwise, in optimal conditions and without mechanical failures, I would have finished the race with a difference of almost 1 minute over the 2nd place.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope that with this explanation some users stop with their speculations, suspicions and accusations about some exploits. These "exploits" as they claim, can't be exploited under conditions similar to those of real life.

That is ... if you are looking for races with cars and performance as close as possible to the real ones, then, when you are the host of a lobby, configure the conditions of the event in the most real way possible ... although in some cases it would imply a rather long race duration, at least a race duration that implies having to use the fuel saving mode or a less aggressive driving style or setups.

Haven't I been telling you that for weeks now ?

The server forced your hand a bit, but you could technically still exploit it, since it's a 30 minutes race, no pit stop needed with proper fuel management, that means you can still abuse both engine and brakes and not feel the pain of the repair at the pitstop.

What these settings didn't change is the way hybrid is regenerated and how people deploy it, that is where the exploit it. Being able to apply both throttle and brakes at the same time and get usable levels of hybrid out of it is just silly, holding 80% throttle through the esses or towards arnage is silly too. That is the exploit.

I'm glad you had a chance to try the "real world" of LMP1, the management is what makes it fun for me, being fast is easy, being fast, have long stints and conserve the tyres all at the same time is what makes LMP1 in this game.

Pekka Salminen
20-05-2018, 18:42
We can always hope the HY system is implemented better in the DLC LMP1's. It is a big task to get it working properly in all of the tracks, but the current system is not good enough for what is supposed to be a simulator IMO. At least options to manually hold and deploy the charge should be implemented, if there is no proper automatic system based on track's properties. It would be helpful as well, when navigating through traffic :)

Tar Heel
20-05-2018, 18:58
We can always hope the HY system is implemented better in the DLC LMP1's. It is a big task to get it working properly in all of the tracks, but the current system is not good enough for what is supposed to be a simulator IMO. At least options to manually hold and deploy the charge should be implemented, if there is no proper automatic system based on track's properties. It would be helpful as well, when navigating through traffic :)

I think that would be a better solution than the current one

KANETAKER
20-05-2018, 21:13
I challenge someone to do a true endurance race (at least 4 hours) trying to exploit the LMP1s as much as possible, using a LB setup, under realistic settings (mechanical damage, tire wear, fuel etc). I guarantee the engine, brakes, or something else will fail way before the end of the race.
In fact, I already did a test in LeMans with mechanical failures activated and using the same setup with which in TimeTrial I got 3:09 ... The TS040 engine blown up before closing the 2nd flying lap, just before reaching the Ford Chicanes. In other words, in a 3 lap race I would not have reached the finish line. Likewise, soft tires do not last 2 full stints, unless you adopt a more conservative and less aggressive driving style.


I think that would be a better solution than the current one

The server forced your hand a bit, but you could technically still exploit it, since it's a 30 minutes race, no pit stop needed with proper fuel management, that means you can still abuse both engine and brakes and not feel the pain of the repair at the pitstop.

I believe that another solution but for the cars of 2014 would be that SMS could have an additional option in the race settings:
Like the issue of climate whose speed can be configured in real time or accelerated (2X, 10 X, 60X) or synchronize with the duration of the race or deactivate it, perhaps the same could be done with the issue of mechanical failures , which can only be activated or deactivated. But in the case of having them activated, it would be good if there was an option to adjust its speed, either in real time (as it is currently in the game), or to synchronize it with the duration of the race. In this way, even if the race lasted 10 minutes, you would have to be as careful as possible with the mechanics of the car as if 24 hours had elapsed.

What these settings didn't change is the way hybrid is regenerated and how people deploy it, that is where the exploit it. Being able to apply both throttle and brakes at the same time and get usable levels of hybrid out of it is just silly, holding 80% throttle through the esses or towards arnage is silly too. That is the exploit.

The same case could be with the issue of the speed of repairs in the pits, since I see that some are also complaining and whining about this detail, since according to them that allows to continue abusing certain advantages despite everything .

The only thing that I wonder is what would happen if in the hypothetical case that SMS were met all their claims, the same fastest players with the LMP1 continue to be fast after all?
I'm going to leave you a couple of phrases that in my country we usually apply for this kind of thing:

- "There will always be people looking for the 5th leg of the cat".
- "Whoever wants to achieve something, will find the way or will endeavor to do it, who does not want to achieve or can not achieve an objective, will seek an excuse".

Again, it makes no sense to compare a 30-minute race to a 24-hour race. What I see is that you want the LMP1 to have virtually the same performance and performance regardless of the duration of the race and regardless of whether the mechanical faults are activated or deactivated. They are very similar to a certain user who created a thread where he complained and demanded that SMS must be ELIMINATE from the factory the option of being able to customize setups, even though the game already has an option to allow or block the use of custom setups ... but even so that user what it demands is that ALL without exception some DO NOT have that option available, not even for private tests offline (singleplayer).

In this case it would be the same ... it seems that some players do not want some of us to have the option of racing with fast cars WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTION (the closest thing to the Porsche 919 EVO). Finally, if what they want are slower and more difficult to drive cars, they already have a good variety of available categories such as the 20 GT3 cars. But please do not come to annoy us who like fast cars. Now they are complaining about the performance of the LMP1 of 2014, what will be next? Complaints about the LMP1 2016? Or about the GT1, LMP2, LMP900, Group C, Formula X, Indy Car? (mentioning the fastest categories of the game, carefully all the ones I use.)


PD: I have the world record at Daytona Road with all LMP2 cars and with the Toyota GT-ONE 98... And none of these cars has a KERS system that can be "exploited" by anyone. (* waiting for the accusations of "cheater" or looking for some possible exploit in those other cars). lol xD In contrast, with the TS040 I'm in 2nd place but by just 0.3 seconds behind of the world record (THR Operator).

Ofnir4
20-05-2018, 21:59
Oh boy, that whole post was so pointless and made so little sense...
Let's go through it, shall we ?



Again, it makes no sense to compare a 30-minute race to a 24-hour race. What I see is that you want the LMP1 to have virtually the same performance and performance regardless of the duration of the race and regardless of whether the mechanical faults are activated or deactivated. They are very similar to a certain user who created a thread where he complained and demanded that SMS must be ELIMINATE from the factory the option of being able to customize setups, even though the game already has an option to allow or block the use of custom setups ... but even so that user what it demands is that ALL without exception some DO NOT have that option available, not even for private tests offline (singleplayer).

You made that comparison, not me. The only things I've been saying so far are 1) Hybrid can be exploited 2) TT laptimes are not representative of true performances 3) Under real conditions and a realistic use, lap times will be really close to real life. (I don't think you read that part.)
Anything else you extrapolated for any of my posts, you misinterpreted. Clearly.



In this case it would be the same ... it seems that some players do not want some of us to have the option of racing with fast cars WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTION (the closest thing to the Porsche 919 EVO). Finally, if what they want are slower and more difficult to drive cars, they already have a good variety of available categories such as the 20 GT3 cars. But please do not come to annoy us who like fast cars. Now they are complaining about the performance of the LMP1 of 2014, what will be next? Complaints about the LMP1 2016? Or about the GT1, LMP2, LMP900, Group C, Formula X, Indy Car? (mentioning the fastest categories of the game, carefully all the ones I use.)


You do what the heck you want, run under any fake or real conditions you want, not my problem, It's your license, use it as you want. What is my problem is you constantly bringing TT laptimes or exploited times and saying "I'm concerned the 2016 cars will be even faster", I won't say it again, read my three points above, you don't have to bring the same concern over and over again when they have been addressed, It's like your are not reading. You do your monologue, quote the next response without reading and say the same thing again.

You are the one who started this whole 2016 LMP1 thread and suddenly I'm the guy who complains about it ? You don't seem to fully read what everybody has been saying here.
And guess what, when a car is 20 seconds faster than its real life counterpart, it's going to get nerfed hard, go complain to SMS about it, I played no part in it.

If you wanted the 2014 and future 2016 LMP1 to remain almost broken and easy to exploit, maybe you shouldn't have started this whole conversation, you just shot yourself in the foot, now you are trying to play the victim and plant fake evidence in my hands ? Nope, I'm not having any of that.




PD: I have the world record at Daytona Road with all LMP2 cars and with the Toyota GT-ONE 98... And none of these cars has a KERS system that can be "exploited" by anyone. (* waiting for the accusations of "cheater" or looking for some possible exploit in those other cars). lol xD In contrast, with the TS040 I'm in 2nd place but by just 0.3 seconds behind of the world record (THR Operator).

And I bet both these times (TS020 and the LMP2s) are 20 seconds faster than the real lap times (if any were ever established on that track) ? Didn't think so.

So let's do a short "previously on..." : You are concerned that the 2016 will be even faster than the current TS040 TT laptime record of 3:06 or something.
I said, TT laptimes means nothing. Under real conditions and sensible use of the car, you will get realistic laptimes, so your 2016 concerns are not a real big issue since any employee of SMS testing them will do so under real conditions to set the performance of the car and the balance of the whole class in general, TT is an afterthough, TT is its own realm with its own rules, what happens in TT stays in TT.
So any laptime set in TT, how exploited or legit it was is not a concern for the people playing it as intended. If 50 people in WMD and SMS test the 2016 R18 and set 3:17 lap times, the pace is ok, car goes untouched, if the other two do the same, the balance is set. TT has nothing to do with it.

There you have it, please read it thoroughly so there is no possible quiproquo.



We can always hope the HY system is implemented better in the DLC LMP1's. It is a big task to get it working properly in all of the tracks, but the current system is not good enough for what is supposed to be a simulator IMO. At least options to manually hold and deploy the charge should be implemented, if there is no proper automatic system based on track's properties. It would be helpful as well, when navigating through traffic :)

I too hope the new 2016 cars get a better hybrid system. Hybrid level based on track length should be priority if it's not already implemented, then cut off based on estimated top speed for each section of the track, itself based on previous laps. Then a manual deploy and cut off to have management in traffic or under slow zone/safety car in a league.

hkraft300
21-05-2018, 00:19
...
In this case it would be the same ... it seems that some players do not want some of us to have the option of racing with fast cars WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTION (the closest thing to the Porsche 919 EVO). Finally, if what they want are slower and more difficult to drive cars, they already have a good variety of available categories such as the 20 GT3 cars. But please do not come to annoy us who like fast cars. Now they are complaining about the performance of the LMP1 of 2014, what will be next? Complaints about the LMP1 2016? Or about the GT1, LMP2, LMP900, Group C, Formula X, Indy Car? (mentioning the fastest categories of the game, carefully all the ones I use.)


Lol

+1. I want the in game cars restricted by BoP/ hybrid rules as per real life. I want their performance as close to real life as possible, whether it be any prototype, GT or formula cars.

Not counting any fantasy car/ categories like formula X. You can keep that.

Ps you’re the one who started the complaining thread about LMP1 performance:glee:

KANETAKER
21-05-2018, 06:33
It is you two who are misinterpreting my comments and misrepresenting them.

I have never asked that the new 2016 LMP1 be slower than the LMP1 of 2014. On the contrary, the new LMP1 cars should be equal or faster than the old LMP1 cars, and my concern is that this does not happen, which would cause the inconvenience of any player who has paid for the Seasson Pass or the DLC of LeMans, only to find LMP1 cars that are not as fast as those already existing in the game, and then said cars are forgotten... which was something that happened on the PCars1 with the Corvette and the Aston Martin GTE. And even something similar happened with the TS040 although at that time many people still did not know how to take advantage of its potential, added to the lower final speed (without KERS) compared to the RWD P30; but it was not until in real life Kobayashi broke the lap record in LeMans 2017, at which time the players finally dared to try to push the TS040 to the limit in PCars1, finally finding the way to get more performance, and to defeat on track the RWD P30, a fictitious car of which a good amount of players complained about him because they did not conceive the fact that a fictitious car was faster than the official cars (Audi, Toyota, Aston Martin).

And now that the situation is the other way around (fictitious cars are slower) some people also complained (?)

Well then it would be better if you look to develop your own game, or a mod that can be applied for PCars2, because otherwise, you would have to find a way to convince someone important in SMS (maybe with a good amount of $$$$$ ) so that all your wishes are fulfilled.

And I still remember the famous case of the "exploit" of the camber angle (0.0) in PCars1. Although this exploit was confirmed and corrected, months later some players with patience, time and effort managed to adjust their setups, so that they became even faster than before, and reaching the same top speeds as when there was the camber exploit. In my case, my best time in LeMans with the RWD P30 was 3:19 with a top speed of 337 Km / h, which rose to 3:21 after the correction of said exploit and reducing my top speed to 332 Km / h, until thanks to another player (who did the job of preparing the setups) not only that I could recover my top speed of 337 Km / h but I could even improve my lap in LeMans to 3:17.

Like I say before:
- "There will always be people looking for the 5th leg of the cat".
- "Whoever wants to achieve something, will find the way or will endeavor to do it, who does not want to achieve or can not achieve an objective, will seek an excuse".

Therefore, although in the hypothetical case of SMS giving in to the complaints of only two people (who ask that the TS040 receive an NERF), sooner or later some player very skilled in preparing setups will find another way to recover that lost performance, and then surely the whining will come back about the same car, or looking for another excuse or another supposed exploit to report. It already happened in PCars 1.

Therefore, I will use the same answer that some are using against those players (including me) who ask for certain cars and tracks for PCars 2 but that will not be possible: "Better wait until PCars 3" !! (in reference to nerf requests).

hkraft300
21-05-2018, 08:39
... On the contrary, the new LMP1 cars should be equal or faster than the old LMP1 cars, and my concern is that this does not happen, which would cause the inconvenience of any player who has paid for the Seasson Pass or the DLC of LeMans, only to find LMP1 cars that are not as fast as those already existing in the game, and then said cars are forgotten....

The 2016 LMP1 cars in game should be as fast or slow as they are in real life. Same as 2014. Regardless of whether paid DLC cars are "forgotten" or not.

It might cause the class to be imbalanced within the game, like GT1/LMP900, but the performance difference is usually so small that a good driver in a slow car will nevertheless beat an average driver in a fast car.

Ofnir4
21-05-2018, 11:11
It is you two who are misinterpreting my comments and misrepresenting them.

I have never asked that the new 2016 LMP1 be slower than the LMP1 of 2014. On the contrary, the new LMP1 cars should be equal or faster than the old LMP1 cars, and my concern is that this does not happen, which would cause the inconvenience of any player who has paid for the Seasson Pass or the DLC of LeMans, only to find LMP1 cars that are not as fast as those already existing in the game, and then said cars are forgotten... which was something that happened on the PCars1 with the Corvette and the Aston Martin GTE. And even something similar happened with the TS040 although at that time many people still did not know how to take advantage of its potential, added to the lower final speed (without KERS) compared to the RWD P30; but it was not until in real life Kobayashi broke the lap record in LeMans 2017, at which time the players finally dared to try to push the TS040 to the limit in PCars1, finally finding the way to get more performance, and to defeat on track the RWD P30, a fictitious car of which a good amount of players complained about him because they did not conceive the fact that a fictitious car was faster than the official cars (Audi, Toyota, Aston Martin).

You are rewriting history, by the time Kobayashi did his record lap, PC2 was on the verge of being released and the TS040 was already the most picked car online in any LMP1 race at le Mans. It took only a month for people to realize the default setup was killing the potential of the Toyota, then the beast was let loose and it was a incredibly dominant car from there, it didn't happen 2 months before PC2.
I had been doing 3:23 in that car in PC1 for at least a year before PC2 came out. Now I'm a 3:21 kind of guy, I'm not asking for a nerf, I'm asking for oversight on how the cars (not that car in particular but the whole hybrid LMP1) can be used to basically cheat the system that is really only working with the players good intentions.

For the pace issue, I see where you are coming from, but it's not a pay-to-win situation or a "forgotten car" situation, the C7R and Vantage GTE were under used simply because of the class balance regarding the restrictor plate and fuel capacity.
The 2016 will more than likely get their own class, so it's not pay to win because there won't be an insentive to get them simply to beat the R18 or TS040, which would be in different classes. There is also little chance of them being slower because of what we have been saying so far.



And now that the situation is the other way around (fictitious cars are slower) some people also complained (?)

Well then it would be better if you look to develop your own game, or a mod that can be applied for PCars2, because otherwise, you would have to find a way to convince someone important in SMS (maybe with a good amount of $$$$$ ) so that all your wishes are fulfilled.

This is a sim, supposed to represent real life, of course people, including me, probably won't like having a fake car destroy the real ones.



And I still remember the famous case of the "exploit" of the camber angle (0.0) in PCars1. Although this exploit was confirmed and corrected, months later some players with patience, time and effort managed to adjust their setups, so that they became even faster than before, and reaching the same top speeds as when there was the camber exploit. In my case, my best time in LeMans with the RWD P30 was 3:19 with a top speed of 337 Km / h, which rose to 3:21 after the correction of said exploit and reducing my top speed to 332 Km / h, until thanks to another player (who did the job of preparing the setups) not only that I could recover my top speed of 337 Km / h but I could even improve my lap in LeMans to 3:17.

No wonder you have a strange stance on the issue if you think the camber bug wasn't an exploit used by people to get unrealistic results. It was a bug, they exploited it, it was removed, end of story.



Therefore, although in the hypothetical case of SMS giving in to the complaints of only two people (who ask that the TS040 receive an NERF), sooner or later some player very skilled in preparing setups will find another way to recover that lost performance, and then surely the whining will come back about the same car, or looking for another excuse or another supposed exploit to report. It already happened in PCars 1.

Count again, lots of people want to have a better, less opened to exploit hybrid system. And again, no one is asking for a nerf, we are asking, like I said 3 or 4 lines above, for stricter hybrid usage rules, the guys and gals using the car as intended by SMS won't be affected one bit by this new hybrid system, I certainly won't, 90% of the players won't see a difference in their lap times, it's not a nerf, get it out of your head.




Therefore, I will use the same answer that some are using against those players (including me) who ask for certain cars and tracks for PCars 2 but that will not be possible: "Better wait until PCars 3" !! (in reference to nerf requests).

Or maybe I'll say to you : Better use that car now before it gets regulated and you can't do 3:17 with it anymore. Having the TS040 do 3:07 under any fake conditions is just bad for the game, It is simply not an accurately simulated car. Badly simulated cars get fixed, not nerfed.

Stewy32
21-05-2018, 17:46
The 2016 LMP1 cars in game should be as fast or slow as they are in real life. Same as 2014. Regardless of whether paid DLC cars are "forgotten" or not.

It might cause the class to be imbalanced within the game, like GT1/LMP900, but the performance difference is usually so small that a good driver in a slow car will nevertheless beat an average driver in a fast car.

They should be quicker by about 5 seconds around Le Mans.
2014 Pole(Dry):3min21s
2016 Pole(Dry at time but most of sessions wet):3min18s
2015 Pole(Dry-for reference):3min16s
The 2016 cars were quicker than the 2015 cars,so their should be a noticeable performance difference.

Stewy32
21-05-2018, 17:49
Just saying will we get a pecking order.Like right now the Toyota is quicker than the Audi like IRL.For 2016 this would mean:
-Audi quickest in hot weather.
-Toyota quickest in low sownforce/top speed
-Porsche a good all rounder.

But overall in 2026 they were all quite equal(Performance means that the season should have ended 3-3-3 on wins) so this should mean all 3 are competitive.

Smoked_Cheddar
21-05-2018, 18:03
Just saying will we get a pecking order.Like right now the Toyota is quicker than the Audi like IRL.For 2016 this would mean:
-Audi quickest in hot weather.
-Toyota quickest in low sownforce/top speed
-Porsche a good all rounder.

But overall in 2026 they were all quite equal(Performance means that the season should have ended 3-3-3 on wins) so this should mean all 3 are competitive.

The new 2026 package will be amazing for sownforce, you will be glued to the ground! :D

Looking back at the results from 2016, it was pretty even, sad to see Audi, and Porsche go. (Their parent's companys fault) but this will be a good era to remember for sport car racing.

hkraft300
22-05-2018, 00:07
The 2016 cars were quicker than the 2015 cars,so their should be a noticeable performance difference.

In TT there will be.
Once you’re racing in the game, with weather changes, pits etc it’ll be pretty close.

Stewy32
22-05-2018, 18:08
In TT there will be.
Once you’re racing in the game, with weather changes, pits etc it’ll be pretty close.

Yeah.Only maybe 1 second at Le Mans compared to '15 and 2 to '14

hkraft300
22-05-2018, 23:54
Yeah.Only maybe 1 second at Le Mans compared to '15 and 2 to '14

Outright pace, lap times by aliens. On the bleeding edge of it, Sure.
Average+ drivers of varying skill levels... the gap diminishes.
Fuel saving, tire saving, rain etc...

m355y
23-05-2018, 07:04
I really, REALLY hope the new LMP1 cars are in their own class. I'm sick of grids full of Mareks and RWDs. Audi v Toyota v Porsche and we're finally talking.

Ofnir4
23-05-2018, 11:21
Outright pace, lap times by aliens. On the bleeding edge of it, Sure.
Average+ drivers of varying skill levels... the gap diminishes.
Fuel saving, tire saving, rain etc...

I would say in the exact same conditions, setup and driver, the 2016 LMP1 should lap at least 3 seconds faster than their 2014 counterparts. But that is we get a better hybrid system, otherwise all that extra charge is going to be wasted qt high speed where it has the least effect, that would just increase the top speed by maybe 20kph and we would still run out of deployment at the same spots. (aka Arnage, so no hybrid coming out of it and no tiny bit for the front straight after the two chicanes)
But it's a bit speculative.

KANETAKER
23-05-2018, 14:37
I really, REALLY hope the new LMP1 cars are in their own class. I'm sick of grids full of Mareks and RWDs. Audi v Toyota v Porsche and we're finally talking.

How strange ... What platform do you play on? Because here on PC / Steam, most use the Toyota TS040 LMP1 and to a lesser extent the RWD, in PCars2. Reason why some complain about the way to take advantage of the KERS because in the Toyota is much more remarkable than in the other 3 LMP1 available.

Only in PCars1 was that the majority of players used only the RWD and the Marek, at least until the arrival of the TS040 and the Aston Martin DBR1-2.

TexasTyme214
23-05-2018, 14:57
How strange ... What platform do you play on? Because here on PC / Steam, most use the Toyota TS040 LMP1 and to a lesser extent the RWD, in PCars2. Reason why some complain about the way to take advantage of the KERS because in the Toyota is much more remarkable than in the other 3 LMP1 available.

Only in PCars1 was that the majority of players used only the RWD and the Marek, at least until the arrival of the TS040 and the Aston Martin DBR1-2.

I think they mean AI grids, not online.

Stewy32
23-05-2018, 15:41
How strange ... What platform do you play on? Because here on PC / Steam, most use the Toyota TS040 LMP1 and to a lesser extent the RWD, in PCars2. Reason why some complain about the way to take advantage of the KERS because in the Toyota is much more remarkable than in the other 3 LMP1 available.

Only in PCars1 was that the majority of players used only the RWD and the Marek, at least until the arrival of the TS040 and the Aston Martin DBR1-2.

I believe it refers to AI,where it virtually is the case that it is almost all RWD and Mareks.

Edit: ninja'd

KANETAKER
23-05-2018, 15:45
I believe it refers to AI,where it virtually is the case that it is almost all RWD and Mareks.

Edit: ninja'd

Ok, I agree. We hope so this can be resolved with the arrival of the new LMP1 cars, at least for any player that have the seasson pass or DLC.