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kobusnell
19-04-2018, 10:47
Hi all,

I consider myself a clean driver, the guy who, if someone is quicker than me, makes a move down the inside at Pouhon (Spa), I'll leave enough room for wheel to wheel racing, and if he overtakes me, cool, that was fun (this happened over the weekend with In3rti, that was fun).

I am not very experienced when it comes to online racing, and only recently started racing Project Cars 2 online, although I have about 100 hours Pcars 1 and 140 hours Pcars 2. We did some friends only online championships, etc.

I've found the general online races to be hectic, and totally unreasonable when grading my license. I need to know if I'm an inconsiderate driver, if I'm making mistakes, or if the system is screwing me. I did a race yesterday evening which was quite laggy. The following videos show my warnings:

GT3 race at Red Bull Ring. 7 laps. I'm in the white Ferrari.

Start of the race was crazy. I tried to be cautious enough, but not overly so. I was rammed from behind, and after turn 1 I was pinched and ended up on my roof. What are your opinions on this start? What should I have done?

https://youtu.be/dk2kcLPdl_U

Next an overtake. Was I to late? I thought the racing was quite clean. I was rammed, and after being rammed I was given a warning again. Should this lower my license?

https://youtu.be/MKksjD70HlU

I was defending approaching the second (proper) corner. I was under pressure. The guy behind me drove into me at the corner, pushing me wide. I got a driving standards warning. I braked where I always brake, couple of meter before the 100m mark. Unfortunately my brake lights were broken. Should I get a warning here, am I in the wrong?

https://youtu.be/tV4I5r6YHPM

Finally, on the last lap I was rammed on the finishing straight. I saw afterwards the guy who rammed me was bullied in the race. Don't know if he thought I was someone else. The yellow Ferrari that flashes past at the end crashed into him a couple of times. Anyhow, he had poor drive, I drove next to him, and he rammed me. Should I get a warning for this?

https://youtu.be/cAFoK-37Qlg

Apparently I'm not allowed to post videos, so please humour the links.

For this race I went from 32% between E and D, to 8% between F and E. I feel cheated, and I really don't know what I should have done. Please educate me to be a better driver.

Erikhfp
19-04-2018, 11:01
I thought the rating was off for this race as there were a bunch of people that crashed into me at the start of the race you are referring to so I was the guy crashing into you while you were on your roof. My rating went up by around 28% after the race even though I made deliberate contact with you

There have been various races where if someone drives into my rear, I get a warning for contact but when I miss judge my braking and drive into someone I don't get a warning. This does not make sense because in any real world driving situation the driver behind is responsible to avoid definite avoidable contact so he should get a warning? I know there are instances where someone brakes to early or is going slow and you cannot avoid them but these situations are less of a problem than people just simply driving into you.

m00lean
19-04-2018, 11:02
I was in that lobby and it was totally laggy. Most of the incidents were caused by those lags.

However, my advice is to avoid public GT3 lobbies. Most of the time they end up being frustating because most of those "drivers" would do everything to win - like you saw on the end of the last lap. Look out for a racing community or try TC or GT4 lobbies. In my experience those are way more civilized with drivers respecting each other.

Regarding the license check out this thread: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55735
Very good and indepth info in there.

Leper Messiah
19-04-2018, 11:02
Is this public lobbies/racing or organised?

Public lobbies are the equivalent of a race track having a free to enter race so you're up against some good and some bad drivers. Of course real race tracks would never entertain the idea of that so I'd imagine public lobbies can be a lottery?

Regarding penalties, I never race online but I would imagine it's pretty hard for any sort of algorithm to work out who's at fault in a lot of circumstances, hell even race stewards in reality can get it wrong.

Basically your experience is why I never race or play any game online, too many spudwits.

Cholton82
19-04-2018, 11:07
Start of the race was crazy. I tried to be cautious enough, but not overly so. I was rammed from behind, and after turn 1 I was pinched and ended up on my roof. What are your opinions on this start? What should I have done?
https://youtu.be/dk2kcLPdl_U

I can't see much else you could of done here , T1 incident and unlucky to get pinched .


Finally, on the last lap I was rammed on the finishing straight. I saw afterwards the guy who rammed me was bullied in the race. Don't know if he thought I was someone else. The yellow Ferrari that flashes past at the end crashed into him a couple of times. Anyhow, he had poor drive, I drove next to him, and he rammed me. Should I get a warning for this?

This was just a dick move by that guy , Unfortunately it would be very complex and difficult for the contact penalty system to be able to judge these scenarios so we have what we have .


Just keep going race clean and eventually you should have better and cleaner races . As they say the cream rises to the top eventually



Next an overtake. Was I to late? I thought the racing was quite clean. I was rammed, and after being rammed I was given a warning again. Should this lower my license?
https://youtu.be/MKksjD70HlU

Wasn't too late imo and the contact didn't happen until the 2nd part of the corner where I think the Bentley moved aggressively over. Bentleys fault


I was defending approaching the second (proper) corner. I was under pressure. The guy behind me drove into me at the corner, pushing me wide. I got a driving standards warning. I braked where I always brake, couple of meter before the 100m mark. Unfortunately my brake lights were broken. Should I get a warning here, am I in the wrong?

Maybe your brake lights didn't help but the car behind should take responsibility for the contact there for sure

kobusnell
19-04-2018, 11:09
Is this public lobbies/racing or organised?

Public lobbies are the equivalent of a race track having a free to enter race so you're up against some good and some bad drivers. Of course real race tracks would never entertain the idea of that so I'd imagine public lobbies can be a lottery?

Regarding penalties, I never race online but I would imagine it's pretty hard for any sort of algorithm to work out who's at fault in a lot of circumstances, hell even race stewards in reality can get it wrong.

Basically your experience is why I never race or play any game online, too many spudwits.

Public lobby. It does feel like a lottery yes. You are guaranteed a massive pile-up in turn 1, and then it gives warnings willy nilly. I think my participation in public lobbies might be fleeting if this is the general experience.

kobusnell
19-04-2018, 11:11
I was in that lobby and it was totally laggy. Most of the incidents were caused by those lags.

However, my advice is to avoid public GT3 lobbies. Most of the time they end up being frustating because most of those "drivers" would do everything to win - like you saw on the end of the last lap. Look out for a racing community or try TC or GT4 lobbies. In my experience those are way more civilized with drivers respecting each other.

Regarding the license check out this thread:
Very good and indepth info in there.

The lag definitely didn't help, but the decency was terrible. Thanks, I'll definitely try other classes then.

kobusnell
19-04-2018, 11:15
Cholton,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I agree with the brake light issue. I didn't think of that previously. Damage was visual only, and I did not consider going to the pits to repair visual damage.

I don't know how to approach T1 anymore. Except maybe not doing GT3 and trying other classes.

belaki
19-04-2018, 11:23
I thought the rating was off for this race as there were a bunch of people that crashed into me at the start of the race you are referring to so I was the guy crashing into you while you were on your roof. My rating went up by around 28% after the race even though I made deliberate contact with you

There have been various races where if someone drives into my rear, I get a warning for contact but when I miss judge my braking and drive into someone I don't get a warning. This does not make sense because in any real world driving situation the driver behind is responsible to avoid definite avoidable contact so he should get a warning? I know there are instances where someone brakes to early or is going slow and you cannot avoid them but these situations are less of a problem than people just simply driving into you.

So because you thought ratings were off, you decided you had carte-blanche to go batsh*t crazy because "there were a bunch of people that crashed into me."

Nice.

SlowBloke
19-04-2018, 11:29
Get out of U ranked servers asap is best thing I can suggest.

Took me about 100 races to get from U to S. D safety ratings and better servers usually have a pretty good race - although there are exceptions including people just being down right d**ks.

It seems most incidents though D or better are more to do with geniune understandable mistakes & lag.

Went to my first U ranked server a few days ago in ages - holy moly - what a cluster***k - exactly as the start you had I was cleanly 2/3rds of the way in 1st corner - almost through and then some muppet came at full speed and hit some guy who hit some guy who hit me. We were all passengers. I waited until everyone past safely i was 30th... then within the 2nd corner 3 places... 3rd corner another 4 places... before the first lap was done I was 20th.... I made no overtakes and ended 10th in a 5 lap race all because people could not keep their cars on the tracks or hit eachother.

The only thing though - wish more people would use the system. Some reason the vast majority of servers are started as U with GT3.

Bealdor
19-04-2018, 11:34
Cholton,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I agree with the brake light issue. I didn't think of that previously. Damage was visual only, and I did not consider going to the pits to repair visual damage.

I don't know how to approach T1 anymore. Except maybe not doing GT3 and trying other classes.

The only thing that's worse than public GT3 lobbies are public GT3 lobbies with damage turned off...

As m00lean already suggested, it's best to avoid them.

Erikhfp
19-04-2018, 11:37
So because you thought ratings were off, you decided you had carte-blanche to go batsh*t crazy because "there were a bunch of people that crashed into me."

Nice.

We are friends so that is mainly why I did it, in a normal lobby I agree that would have been uncalled for. I did apologize after the race when I was made aware of the knock his rating took. It was intended as a joke and not as malicious action but obviously it had undesirable repercussions.

maxx69
19-04-2018, 11:52
I've done one public lobby since release of pcars 2 and remembered straight away why I race in a community.....never again :/
I'm sure you can get good lobbies but it's a disappointing minefield trying to find one .

Cholton82
19-04-2018, 12:15
Cholton,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I agree with the brake light issue. I didn't think of that previously. Damage was visual only, and I did not consider going to the pits to repair visual damage.

I don't know how to approach T1 anymore. Except maybe not doing GT3 and trying other classes.

One thing I used to do was purposely try and qualify towards the back and let the T1 drama in fact the first lap drama unfold in front of me . I picked up many good race finishes including wins this way just by holding back slightly and letting the carnage unfold.

Leper Messiah
19-04-2018, 12:21
question, is it possible to gain good points regardless of finish position by driving cleanly, by that I mean actively avoiding incidents at ALL costs even sacrificing positions? Or is it all based on finish position? I ask because people could just stay out of trouble until their license is built up enough to race the better quality racers?

Leper Messiah
19-04-2018, 12:23
Public lobby. It does feel like a lottery yes. You are guaranteed a massive pile-up in turn 1, and then it gives warnings willy nilly. I think my participation in public lobbies might be fleeting if this is the general experience.

If you're a clean racer then seek out organised events/leagues I realise you lose the "pick up and just play anytime you like" aspect but the overall quality of opponents should increase almost exponentially!

Bealdor
19-04-2018, 12:26
question, is it possible to gain good points regardless of finish position by driving cleanly, by that I mean actively avoiding incidents at ALL costs even sacrificing positions? Or is it all based on finish position? I ask because people could just stay out of trouble until their license is built up enough to race the better quality racers?

Points are distributed by finishing position only.
Driving cleanly will only raise your safety rating (the letter).

cpcdem
19-04-2018, 13:01
My opinion:

- Do not ever, ever join lobbies with 26 cars and U rating (and GT3s in addition!), this is a bullet proof recipe for disaster. Pick much smaller lobbies while you are still at U, then try to increase your safety quickly and the join only F+ servers. This is why this system was introduced, use it!

- In first corner, you could do absolutely nothing, due to the point above. Except for staying completely at the back, waiting for others to crash, then, when there are less cars around, try to go through the race, without taking any risks. Don't worry about winning or overtaking yet, just avoid contact at all cost, until you are at F, then do not join U servers any more.

btw, at 0:10, I think you also suddenly moved just in front of the red car behind, as he was trying to overtake?

- The overtake was aggressive but ok imo. Problem was later, when you both did not give enough space to the other car. You did not follow the curvature of the corner (to the right), but instead went left, to the middle of the track. The other car did not stay at the left of the track where he was, he also moved to the middle instead. The outcome was to be expected :)

- The incident under braking, I think you braked a little too early, but still it was fine and the other car made absolutely no attempt to avoid you. As I said, avoid U lobbies!

- The last one was a disgusting side-sweeping move. Thing is, that many people do that and then even come to the chat and say that this a legal move, you have the right to protect your line and thing like that. And the worst part is I think they really believe this...Anyway, again avoid U lobbies, such behavior is less common in F+ ones.

Edit: Thanks for posting the videos, I think this is a very good thing so people can tell heir opinions about such matters and we all know what we are talking about. So many others complain about online behavior but deny to post a video of their races...

Malcstar
19-04-2018, 14:28
In my case, ill stay away from 100 level lobbys only if the ratings are off. They still got jerks at a 1000+ but still competitive and normally not maxed out. Eventually you'll see the same lobbys, same host if you play night after night. Safety surely goes up but does nothing for your skill rating. This is where you take risk at the wreckfest, if you survive with luck and awareness the gains are fast.

GrimeyDog
19-04-2018, 16:26
Seems like you were racing pretty Good... 2 of the Videos were Accidents or people just Not giving enough space... You have to brake earlier than the car infront of you then use yhe draft to catch back up...2 of the Videos you were Rammed off to stop you from passing. JMO

davidt33
19-04-2018, 16:55
Looked like the game Wreckfest.

cpcdem
19-04-2018, 18:07
Btw, for people that believe that it is not possible to have great clean racing in public lobbies, here are below a few races of some of the people I race online with, very recently found those videos. All public lobbies, with F rating (one or two were even U I think), you just need to find a good group of people to race with and do not allow trolls to join.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BOxR0Py_oY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruZQ7t9yDXY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCASKSukDGw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2XEB9ix4LQ

Atak Kat
19-04-2018, 18:28
On PS4 I really have not had many issues. It happens every now and then.

If you watch the front wheels of the cars around you, you can often tell pretty quickly who might be on controller and wildly flailing the control stick. All of a sudden the front tires are at full left, full right, and you realize quickly they might be struggling. Fine. Great to see you online. No problem. Go for it. In some cases they are damned fast.

But it's a visual thing I see, that can give me an idea to watch-out.

FxUK
19-04-2018, 19:21
I have had a race that went almost identical to this, on RBR too and a random others with similar incidents.

#1 - I hate it when that sort of thing happens, I have been a victim of that numerous times, it sucks.
#2 I would consider a pure accident, both parties not aware of their surroundings properly.
#3 I would also say is an accident, but the other guy should have given the position back.
#4 Those side sweeps - They happen a lot, and sometimes can be hard to determine who was at fault. I have had it happen numerous times even by clean racers and sometimes I can't help thinking to myself.. I wonder if what I saw is actually what occurred, as in did they really turn into me or did lag cause their vehicle to continue on a path (on my screen) but not on theirs. But also, did the cars become magnetised (like barriers can be). The lambo was edging over but you stuck your course, once he hit, he bounced and fought to keep it under control, by the looks of it, probably thinking you hit him from the rear trying to pit manoeuvre him, although continued on the same path to destruction for you both.

I have to say though, as a whole, I have a lot more clean races compared to bad ones, probably something like 95% clean 5% bad.
I don't consider genuine accidents / mistakes as bad either, only intentional ramming.

A fixed cockpit cam results in a lot of blind spots, especially on a single screen, hence why I use the proximity indicators and crewchief to try and stay out of as much trouble as possible, but I also race in VR mostly, now, which helps when I remember I can actually look around :P

The thing with the licence is, the lower the rank, the less steps their are to climb, so you will find you go up and down a fair bit and frequent too.
If one 6 lap race could generate say + or - 10 safety points (number pulled out of thin air) and U to F required 10, within two races you could go up and back down.
But, C might need 100 points, therefore less movement overall and more likely to only ever notice it increasing.

When you hit S, well... it seems almost impossible to lose, probably not, but seems it.

davidt33
19-04-2018, 22:38
Btw, for people that believe that it is not possible to have great clean racing in public lobbies, here are below a few races of some of the people I race online with, very recently found those videos. All public lobbies, with F rating (one or two were even U I think), you just need to find a good group of people to race with and do not allow trolls to join.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BOxR0Py_oY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruZQ7t9yDXY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCASKSukDGw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2XEB9ix4LQ
Yup that was some great racing right there.

kobusnell
20-04-2018, 06:15
Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate all who commented on the videos. I think the warnings about the U lobbies are very valid, and I'll definitely avoid those in the future. The idea of qualifying at the back is also smart, half af the field is usually lost in the first corner.

After someone mentioned racing communities, I had a look at some. I like that revolutionsimracing has a steward system. Although it would be impossible to incorporate this into Project Cars due to the amount of drivers, having the option to review accidents and adjust licenses accordingly would have been nice.

Leper Messiah
20-04-2018, 08:14
Points are distributed by finishing position only.
Driving cleanly will only raise your safety rating (the letter).

So, in theory you could drive in such a way to avoid all incidents and increase your safety rating then avoiding the lower ranked "eejits" then work on points? (sorry I'm clueless about the MP ratings!)

demand34
20-04-2018, 11:11
One dude yesterday got mad at three or four of us in his lobby and kicked us all hehe. When I looked at how many points would that cost me on the licence, I found out that I had 20 more points lol.

Hallelujah on that change SMS. Took you five taches but ok at least you changed it eventually:)

cpcdem
20-04-2018, 14:27
So, in theory you could drive in such a way to avoid all incidents and increase your safety rating then avoiding the lower ranked "eejits" then work on points? (sorry I'm clueless about the MP ratings!)

Yes, exactly. Although there's a big difference, increasing your safety ranking has a practical purpose, it allows you to then join servers with cleaner drivers. It's not a guarantee, but usually F servers are a lot better than U ones.

On the other hand, the "points" ranking is only about your bragging rights :). And it does not make that much sense, because a lot of the very fast guys, for whatever reason, they have very low skill rating (some of the very top are even at 1300 territory), so very rarely "higher points" also means "faster driver".