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Zenzic
20-04-2018, 21:21
For some time now I've been averaging the AI skill percentage I used in previous races. I then use that average in the next race, adjust afterward if needed and expand the average to include this latest value. After quite a few races I've stagnated at 100%, but with quite a spread: the lowest percentage in the pool is 90, the highest is 109. So my system is flawed, as I just again noticed at Watkins Glen, where I'm 2 seconds off pace.

For this track I'm now back to practicing for some time, trying to determine my pace. Then simulate multiple races with different AI skill percentages. Finally weigh AI last and best lap times after a few minutes until I can guesstimate my lap time would put me toward the middle of the pack. But in my experience even this system is hit and miss. Not to mention the more simulations I run and adjust the AI skill, the less immersive it feels when I finally get to racing.

I'm interested to see how you guys go about choosing an AI skill percentage. Any pointers or tips? Thanks!

g.stew
20-04-2018, 22:13
This is a good question and it's made me think I don't really have a great method. I've been using 100 lately and occasionally will drop down to 90 but then go back to 100 after a session or two.

We were actually just talking on this other thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62801-Second-Part-Make-FA-User-friendly&p=1502872&viewfull=1#post1502872) about possibly adjusting your air restrictor to adjust this as well. I'm thinking by doing that, you should be able to see how much it's actually affecting you, where the AI is more of a black box.

I have seen mentioned a few times that the AI level adjustment changes at 100.

From a post by Bealdor (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?61387-AI-after-patch-4&p=1483968&viewfull=1#post1483968) on an old thread.



90 - RL laptimes
100 - fastest possible laptimes without cheating
100+ - AI has more power (HP) than the player -> cheating


So you have to consider that their "skill level" (probably their lines, shifting, brake points, throttle control, etc.) caps out at that point, and their horsepower just increases. At certain tracks this would probably be more noticeable than others.

Keena
20-04-2018, 22:18
Great post g.stew with great info. I didnt know aboit the 100% thing. I'll use that as a reference point when i start trying out that air restrictor idea. :)

Sentry87
21-04-2018, 00:23
First I set a starting point based on the track. Tracks with slow corners like Algarve I'm faster than the a.i. so I set the difficulty fairly high. Tracks with fast turns and long straights like Spa the a.i. is faster so I set difficulty a little lower.

I then set my custom race weekend; practice, qualifying, race. If the a.i. needs to be adjusted based on their pace in practice I quit, adjust level, then restart my session. It only takes 5-10 minutes in practice to get an idea where I stack up against the a.i. so not too time consuming

g.stew
21-04-2018, 01:17
I'm also interested to know where everyone tries to rank themselves when adjusting the AI.

Do you aim to match the fastest AI time, be faster than their fastest time, match the time xth place (ex. between 5th and 10th placed AI times), or something different?

In career, I try to get my potential lap time near the top 3 AI times. With warming up tires/brakes, traffic, and short qualifying, I'll get 1 chance to put together a perfect lap to qualify in the top 3. More often than not, things won't fall into place and I start a few places back, but it's awesome when it does come together. My current season on career is the last tier, so I've just set it to 100/100. If I don't make it then I'll keep going until I do.

In custom races, I try to place myself in the middle of the field. I'm trying to practise my awareness and race etiquette so I want to race in traffic as much as possible.

Zenzic
21-04-2018, 13:48
Thanks for the input, guys!

APR193
21-04-2018, 14:35
For modern racing classes I attempt to get it so I'm capable of running at the front of the pack, but I have to work for it. If I have a great lap I want the ai to be able to match it. If I make a mistake I want to be punished and not just try and bit harder to make the time back

For older classes I try to match the fastest ai in the car I am in. So if I'm 40+ seconds off the lead by the end of the race, but have been matched all the way by the fastest ai in the same car as me, that would be/is fine with me. I've had some of my favourite races struggling just to get inside the top 10 while being lapped

Zenzic
21-04-2018, 15:15
@APR193: How do you try and find a suitable AI skill % that allows you to have those tight races? Do you adjust the percentage during practice? Maybe you simulate races?

Leper Messiah
21-04-2018, 16:01
You can't have a global setting that works on all track, I adjust for every track with a setting for how hard the Ai can be for a hard fought win (couple of seconds or so) or mid pack dogfight. Sadly there are a LOT of variables that effect a race so it's not foolproof (bit like reality).

Reason for this is I'm really good at some tracks and really bad at others.

APR193
21-04-2018, 16:02
It can be hard to get it exactly right and it takes time to get it bang on, especially as practice pace isn't always reflected in the race. I only do custom races, and it can take a night or two of doing the first 15/20 minutes of races to fine tune it. I've found that generally every 1% is worth around 3-5 tenths of a second per lap, so if I'm a second a lap faster / slower in the race, I'll change it by 2%, and try another 20 minutes of racing and adjust if needed. From then I just keep a note of what ai level I have for each track/class, as it can vary quite a bit.

yannara
22-04-2018, 10:59
AI is still a mess, I think. The biggest problem for me is, that I can pole at qualify, but in race I will still loose my position. The behavior of AI in race / qualify / practise is different. Also, If I have to modify AI skill at every race, I treat that as a bug.

Zenzic
23-04-2018, 07:24
Anyone else who's willing to share some tips on how to get the AI difficulty just right for a given race?

Keena
23-04-2018, 09:29
Anyone else who's willing to share some tips on how to get the AI difficulty just right for a given race?

I wish there was a golden bullet answer but AI pace is a work in progress and is scknowledged as such. It is a pain in the butt at the moment and for career players quite a serious problem. Im leaning back towards F1 2017 for career immersion and enjoy PC2 for its physics.

Atak Kat
23-04-2018, 09:38
Personally, I have found that 80% skill and about 35% aggression is a good starting point for me. No formula, just found that seems to be the starting point that works.
As long as I know the track (reasonably) it's a good benchmark. If I don't mess up, I can win, but it will usually go to the final laps.
The battle with the front 2 or 3 cars is usually the most difficult.

I can usually tell in qualifying if my times are close to the top 3. If my time is within 0.5 sec of the top 3, then I go ahead. I personally don't like to start in first, because I enjoy the racing in the pack much more. But it usually takes at least 10-15 min of qualifying for me to get my times up there. If I'm much faster than the top 3, or I'm at the top of the board in the first 5 minutes, I would bump it up 5% (or more, depending how much faster I was, but so far hasn't happened) and start over. If I don't know the track, I find that my quali times are several seconds behind and I just cannot improve them, so I reduce the AI 5-10% and try the quali again.

Not sure if anyone else has observed this, but I recently found that the AI seem to make a last lap 'heroic' drive, if you are in the lead. I did a couple races with AI this weekend, I was leading by several seconds, and I thought I had it in the bag. Then, last lap, somehow two cars were all over me, and even passed me!! I was able to gain the win back, but those cars came out of nowhere right at the beginning of the last lap. Maybe I was sleeping at the wheel.... but I didn't think so, and my lap times were pretty consistent.

I watched an interesting video from Billy Strange the other day. He made the comment that for whatever reason, AI are always quite slow on the first lap. This is why it is often so easy to gain so many positions on the first lap. He did a race where he stayed in his starting position through the entire first lap. So intentionally not passing any AI on the first lap. He didn't start from the back, but I seem to remember somewhere in the back half of the grid. Looked like a much more interesting challenge because from lap 2 onwards it was much more of a race and it wasn't so easy to just sail past a big group of them. Have to try this....

Jezza819
23-04-2018, 13:23
Since I only do 10 lap quick races with no practice or qualification I don't really have a formula for calculating the AI strength. I tried the 100/100 just once to see what it's like and let's just say I'll never make that mistake again.

I want my races to give me a fair shot at winning even if I start towards the rear of the 24 car field. But AI strength is so varied across the classes it makes it tough to come up with a number and leave it there. What works for GTE doesn't work for Vintage A etc. A lot of the problem comes from the fastest cars in each class starting from the front almost always. They shoot off into the distance and it makes it very hard to track them down if I'm having to sort through traffic. It's like qualifying happened without me.

Right now I'm in the 60-70 AI strength range again depending on class but I'm having to make changes again after Patch 5 because I think AI got tweaked again. I try to keep fastest laps of the race within 1.5 seconds or so. That seems to keep everything sort of fair.

Tar Heel
23-04-2018, 15:19
I'm also interested to know where everyone tries to rank themselves when adjusting the AI.

Do you aim to match the fastest AI time, be faster than their fastest time, match the time xth place (ex. between 5th and 10th placed AI times), or something different?

In career, I try to get my potential lap time near the top 3 AI times. With warming up tires/brakes, traffic, and short qualifying, I'll get 1 chance to put together a perfect lap to qualify in the top 3. More often than not, things won't fall into place and I start a few places back, but it's awesome when it does come together. My current season on career is the last tier, so I've just set it to 100/100. If I don't make it then I'll keep going until I do.

In custom races, I try to place myself in the middle of the field. I'm trying to practise my awareness and race etiquette so I want to race in traffic as much as possible.

I try to be in the top 10 after practice. If I cant get inside the top 10 I am usually at the very back of the grid which tells me the AI is probably too high for me on that specific track.

yannara
23-04-2018, 18:32
I wish there was a golden bullet answer but AI pace is a work in progress and is scknowledged as such. It is a pain in the butt at the moment and for career players quite a serious problem. Im leaning back towards F1 2017 for career immersion and enjoy PC2 for its physics.

I am afraid you are right. I had also these thoughts lately, to go back to F1 2017.

Vic Flange
23-04-2018, 20:30
I just set up a quick race with a random grid for 3 laps and then see how I compare to the AI. I like having to work for an overtake. So if I make up about 3 spots in the race (excluding start) I am generally happy with that setting.
Itís great when you hit the sweet spot. I did a race at Cadwell Park in the Lotus 25 and had to follow a car for about five laps before I eventually squeezed past with an on the limit late braking lunge. I was delighted when he took the place back a lap later.

Schnizz58
23-04-2018, 20:45
I'm interested to see how you guys go about choosing an AI skill percentage. Any pointers or tips? Thanks!
Here's how I did it PC1. I haven't really used this method for PC2 because I'm waiting for a bug to be fixed before I continue my career and because the AI are still a little too inconsistent track-to-track. But for PC1, it was like this...

Not really knowing how good or bad the AI were going to be I started at 50%. If I won a race I bumped it a couple of percent. If I finished on the podium I bumped 1%. If I finished out of the top ten, I dropped it a percent. It turned out that 50% was way too low so my first few bumps were 5% until I got into the right ballpark. It eventually stabilized around 80% I think.

kevin kirk
24-04-2018, 04:28
each time i win i move the slider up 5.

Zenzic
24-04-2018, 07:40
@Schnizz58 & kevin kirk: I tried that method in the past but it's not ideal; with AI not being the same on every track, incrementing by 5 can mean 15.

Gav88888
24-04-2018, 07:53
For me I spend 20-30min in qualifying fine tuning the AI so I am only just in pole, like less than 1 second using race fuel, as the AI seem to qualify with race fuel.

Then when it comes to the race I throw all that out the window as I'm usually 2-3seconds a lap quicker than the AI using the same skill level as I set in qualifying, so then I quit the race, adjust the AI higher by 5, then start the race again, if I can do 2 laps and I am consistently gaining a lot of time I up the slider again until the AI are basically doing the same lap times as me, or close enough.

Then I throw that out of the window as after 10 laps the AI start gaining on me at about 0.5 to 1 second a lap as there fuel loads come down they get quicker, but as my fuel load comes down my tires are knackered so I am just getting slower and slower, by the time they catch me I struggle to keep them behind me and trying my hardest to do consistent laps they are all over me and coming past me left and right as my car slowly falls apart lol...

Nah seriously, I used to do that, but now I don't bother with qualifying, I just do a race only as qualifying is pointless, now I start a race on pole, do a couple of laps and adjust the skill up or down until I am 1 second a lap quicker than the AI then I just leave it and race. This usually gives good close racing by the end of the race, although at the start I get a small lead, allowing for some mistakes here or there, as the races get longer the AI gets faster as I get slower, as my tires seem to give up about lap 10...

So really it's a mess.

It would be nice to have more variation across the grid, rather than the whole grid being within 1 or 2 seconds of each other and being perfect lap after lap forming nice neat trains, how about a slider like in AC where you can set the AI skill level, then set a variable to allow plus or minus 10% on that skill level, so you set the AI at 90, then using the slider you can have some of the cars at 80% and some at 100%, you could also do the same for aggression as it would make it more interesting and realistic.

Schnizz58
24-04-2018, 14:32
@Schnizz58 & kevin kirk: I tried that method in the past but it's not ideal; with AI not being the same on every track, incrementing by 5 can mean 15.

That's why I haven't used that method with PC2. Yet.

Leper Messiah
25-04-2018, 07:46
I still don't understand why people expect a global Ai setting to work across all tracks, makes no sense to me at all. In REALITY drivers/riders are better at some tracks and not others, some drivers/riders are utterly unbeatable on some tracks and really struggle in others. why do you want predictability? It's the one thing that makes motorsport crap, it's the things that make it unpredictable make it great. Also some tracks will suit some cars better than others, add in varying grip levels and weather and we get unpredictability which is good.

Leper Messiah
25-04-2018, 07:48
For me I spend 20-30min in qualifying fine tuning the AI so I am only just in pole, like less than 1 second using race fuel, as the AI seem to qualify with race fuel.

Then when it comes to the race I throw all that out the window as I'm usually 2-3seconds a lap quicker than the AI using the same skill level as I set in qualifying, so then I quit the race, adjust the AI higher by 5, then start the race again, if I can do 2 laps and I am consistently gaining a lot of time I up the slider again until the AI are basically doing the same lap times as me, or close enough.

Then I throw that out of the window as after 10 laps the AI start gaining on me at about 0.5 to 1 second a lap as there fuel loads come down they get quicker, but as my fuel load comes down my tires are knackered so I am just getting slower and slower, by the time they catch me I struggle to keep them behind me and trying my hardest to do consistent laps they are all over me and coming past me left and right as my car slowly falls apart lol...

Nah seriously, I used to do that, but now I don't bother with qualifying, I just do a race only as qualifying is pointless, now I start a race on pole, do a couple of laps and adjust the skill up or down until I am 1 second a lap quicker than the AI then I just leave it and race. This usually gives good close racing by the end of the race, although at the start I get a small lead, allowing for some mistakes here or there, as the races get longer the AI gets faster as I get slower, as my tires seem to give up about lap 10...

So really it's a mess.

It would be nice to have more variation across the grid, rather than the whole grid being within 1 or 2 seconds of each other and being perfect lap after lap forming nice neat trains, how about a slider like in AC where you can set the AI skill level, then set a variable to allow plus or minus 10% on that skill level, so you set the AI at 90, then using the slider you can have some of the cars at 80% and some at 100%, you could also do the same for aggression as it would make it more interesting and realistic.

In reality race times are usually slower than quali, if you are doing the same pace in the race as in quali then you're not going fast enough in quali. It's been an issue in games for ages, it not the game Ai problem, it a problem with the player and I'm the same I cannot go that bit faster in quali so I just do what Carl Fogarty did and set up for the race pace, even if it means I'm not on pole. You need to run an aggressive setup in quali then have a more conservative one in the race. Having race fuel in levels in quali is the issue here I think. You are artificially slowing yourself in Quali making it artificially close, thus bunking the race pace equality. Sounds like your driving style/setup is too harsh on the tyres as well. So you can beat the Ai at your initial pace, but that wears out your tyres while the Ai is managing theirs, your tyres wear out faster and the ai has gri pto spare when the fuel loads come down. i mean it's been happening in motorsports that way for decades, it's what happens...now I'm not saying it's all happening in the game as it would in reality, the Ai is probably tweaked for scenarios and behaviour to simulate what happens, so what you moan about makes sense to me.

Zenzic
25-04-2018, 09:21
I still don't understand why people expect a global Ai setting to work across all tracks, makes no sense to me at all. In REALITY drivers/riders are better at some tracks and not others, some drivers/riders are utterly unbeatable on some tracks and really struggle in others. why do you want predictability? It's the one thing that makes motorsport crap, it's the things that make it unpredictable make it great. Also some tracks will suit some cars better than others, add in varying grip levels and weather and we get unpredictability which is good.

I'm afraid you're missing the point. This thread is not about finding one AI setting that works for all tracks - some even acknowledged a single value won't work. It's about sharing efficient ways to determine a suitable AI difficulty setting per track. The spread in AI skill for a given difficulty percentage is quite narrow, so finding a suitable AI skill percentage becomes quite important when doing endurance races for instance, or you end up racing alone for two hours.

What's your preferred way to determine an AI skill percentage, Leper Messiah?

Gav88888
25-04-2018, 14:12
In reality race times are usually slower than quali, if you are doing the same pace in the race as in quali then you're not going fast enough in quali. It's been an issue in games for ages, it not the game Ai problem, it a problem with the player and I'm the same I cannot go that bit faster in quali so I just do what Carl Fogarty did and set up for the race pace, even if it means I'm not on pole. You need to run an aggressive setup in quali then have a more conservative one in the race. Having race fuel in levels in quali is the issue here I think. You are artificially slowing yourself in Quali making it artificially close, thus bunking the race pace equality. Sounds like your driving style/setup is too harsh on the tyres as well. So you can beat the Ai at your initial pace, but that wears out your tyres while the Ai is managing theirs, your tyres wear out faster and the ai has gri pto spare when the fuel loads come down. i mean it's been happening in motorsports that way for decades, it's what happens...now I'm not saying it's all happening in the game as it would in reality, the Ai is probably tweaked for scenarios and behaviour to simulate what happens, so what you moan about makes sense to me.

Good feedback, I did think maybe I am pushing the tires too hard, but I have tried the same with tire wear off and its the same though. And I agree with your comment above about track to track there are variations as some people are better on others etc, and I appreciate that, some tracks I kick a**e on and others I struggle a bit, but it would be good to have some consistency between quali and race at the same place within 1hr of each other.

I did try low fuel in quali and set my best time and set the AI to that, problem is the AI then kicks my a**e as they quali with race fuel so if I set the AI to be the same as my quali time on quali fuel I am heavier in the race making me slower, which is why I went for the same fuel load in quali and having a good race setup hoping that come race time it would be on equal grounds.

Some series are better than others as there are some difference in the cars performance, but that leads to other issues like all the same cars at the back as they are slower than others in the same class, like the old school group A, the cossie is quicker than the merc or m3 but all in the same class.

I think a slider for the AI to add in some variation such as plus or minus 10% on skill and aggression would help mix things up a bit.

kevin kirk
27-04-2018, 04:22
@Schnizz58 & kevin kirk: I tried that method in the past but it's not ideal; with AI not being the same on every track, incrementing by 5 can mean 15.
......for me the biggest effect on diffulculty difference between tracks isnt so much the AI difference on them but is more down to how good I am on some tracks and how bad i suck on others.

davekojo
27-04-2018, 05:40
Lap count is important when setting AI. The longer the race the more AI "Fatigue" will happen and the "slower" AI will get when compared to the human as the race goes on. On longer races I set AI a little higher. The AI may drive away from me a little at the start, but as the race goes on I will catch them up and race with/over take them.

Setting difficulty when racing with qualifying I think is more difficult because of the above. Number of cars and laps also has an influence. I try and set AI difficulty so I qualify around top 6 -8 so I can pick off 2 or 3 in the first few corners and then chase the remaining cars over the rest of the race.

CSL-Drive
27-04-2018, 06:22
Haha, I have 100% arcade retro approach to this.

Always do instant race, begin at the back. If I overtake too easily, or if I finally have reached pole position, I increase difficulty. If I can't keep up, I lower difficulty.

Then I just spent time racing. Endlessly. Love it.

Leper Messiah
27-04-2018, 08:23
I'm afraid you're missing the point. This thread is not about finding one AI setting that works for all tracks - some even acknowledged a single value won't work. It's about sharing efficient ways to determine a suitable AI difficulty setting per track. The spread in AI skill for a given difficulty percentage is quite narrow, so finding a suitable AI skill percentage becomes quite important when doing endurance races for instance, or you end up racing alone for two hours.

What's your preferred way to determine an AI skill percentage, Leper Messiah?

I spent hours upon hours on GTR2 tweaking the Ai, I think I even got into the "guts" of some files to tweak some settings via notepad. There is no easy way to do it, no quick way to do it. The more complex sims becomes with more variables that can influence Ai and player pace (and PC2 is way more complex than GTR2) then the longer it will take. I'm doing a similar thing in Ride 2, trying to ascertain what level Ai each bike can win at in 3rd and 1st person views, luckily I only have 5 Ai settings to deal with and no percentage, although for fine tuning I wish I had a percentage.

My personal system starts by working out what tracks I am good at (even if I'm not a fan of the track) and which ones I am not (even if I love the track), then adjusting from there. I usually try to find quite a few settings for my mood, easy win/hard win or podium/mid pack battle). I do appreciate that it's much harder to get a consistant level in PC2, but that's down to (as I say above) complexity and variables changing things up (and I'm a bit crap!).

Leper Messiah
27-04-2018, 08:28
Good feedback, I did think maybe I am pushing the tires too hard, but I have tried the same with tire wear off and its the same though. And I agree with your comment above about track to track there are variations as some people are better on others etc, and I appreciate that, some tracks I kick a**e on and others I struggle a bit, but it would be good to have some consistency between quali and race at the same place within 1hr of each other.

I did try low fuel in quali and set my best time and set the AI to that, problem is the AI then kicks my a**e as they quali with race fuel so if I set the AI to be the same as my quali time on quali fuel I am heavier in the race making me slower, which is why I went for the same fuel load in quali and having a good race setup hoping that come race time it would be on equal grounds.

Some series are better than others as there are some difference in the cars performance, but that leads to other issues like all the same cars at the back as they are slower than others in the same class, like the old school group A, the cossie is quicker than the merc or m3 but all in the same class.

I think a slider for the AI to add in some variation such as plus or minus 10% on skill and aggression would help mix things up a bit.

hmmm same with wear off? That's not good to hear. Ok so I sort of see your logic. I agree it's not easy, personally I just wish weather was selectable or completely random in career mode. I'm a huge fan of the seies but the career weather decisions leave me scratching my head.

In a nutshell though the next sim I play that has decent Ai across all tracks and all car/bike disciplines will be the first! I just feel sorry for Doug sometimes!

Theruleslawyer
27-04-2018, 15:49
It'd, be cool if there were an auto AI feature. At the end of practice it compares your times vs the AI and then adjusts up or down to at least put you in the pack.

simsimsheree
30-04-2018, 06:29
Haha, I have 100% arcade retro approach to this.

Always do instant race, begin at the back. If I overtake too easily, or if I finally have reached pole position, I increase difficulty. If I can't keep up, I lower difficulty.

Then I just spent time racing. Endlessly. Love it.

This sounds like it ought to work, but my problem is, due to how poorly the AI launch, I'm mid-pack by T1, surrounded by juddering imbeciles bouncing off each other and all too often, me..! Then, if I'm not shunted off, I'll start to work my way up.

But... Ideally, you are looking at the prospect of battling for first on the last lap or so of the race. But how do you find this ideal without running full race distance? Unless you are running sprints, this seems a pretty inefficient way to figure out AI settings. Try an hour length race, factor in two or three attempts to reach that ideal setting, you've just tossed away a whole day's racing! Just to get one good one... if you ever do find the right setting.

There's something to be said for a bit of rubberbanding, as long as (unlike most games) you can adjust the strength. Rather than waste all day setting the AI to match you, have the AI figure it out in the race... It's nice to set no rubberbanding when you don't want it, but for quick, casual racing, it can save you a LOT of wasted time.

Atak Kat
30-04-2018, 07:15
This sounds like it ought to work, but my problem is, due to how poorly the AI launch, I'm mid-pack by T1, surrounded by juddering imbeciles bouncing off each other and all too often, me..! Then, if I'm not shunted off, I'll start to work my way up.

But... Ideally, you are looking at the prospect of battling for first on the last lap or so of the race. But how do you find this ideal without running full race distance? Unless you are running sprints, this seems a pretty inefficient way to figure out AI settings. Try an hour length race, factor in two or three attempts to reach that ideal setting, you've just tossed away a whole day's racing! Just to get one good one... if you ever do find the right setting.

There's something to be said for a bit of rubberbanding, as long as (unlike most games) you can adjust the strength. Rather than waste all day setting the AI to match you, have the AI figure it out in the race... It's nice to set no rubberbanding when you don't want it, but for quick, casual racing, it can save you a LOT of wasted time.

There was an interesting video by Billy Strange where he talked a bit about this 1st lap AI behaviour. For whatever reason, you gain too many positions on the first turn. And AI in general is really slow on 1st lap.
What he did was just to stay in his position throughout the entire first lap, or even fall back a bit. Then, only on the 2nd lap try to progress through and pass the AI.

I tried this myself over the weekend. I thought it worked quite well. Normally I use about 75-80% AI difficulty (aggression 25-30). I did a 12 lap race at Nurburgring GP and it was tough. The first 4 or 5 places were still pretty easy to gain. But getting up to 4th or 5th was quite a challenge for me. I had to reduce the AI difficulty back to about 60%, and then I was able to get onto the podium in the last couple of laps (but still not win). If I would have increased to about 20 laps, maybe I could have won with the AI at 75%, but it would have been tough. And I like to put full damage on, because this changes things and you tend to drive differently - you think twice before diving up the inside.

Give it a try. I know it doesn't answer the question about how to choose the right AI%. Personally, I'm enjoying the AI racing more than the on-line racing recently.

As for choosing the correct AI%, my opinion is that this has much more to do with how well you know the car and track combination. Whether or not you have a dialed-in setup, or not.
If I'm on a track I know really well, with a car I feel confident in, I can have AI 90%+ and be OK.
Put me on a track I'm still learning, in a different car category, and likely I'm down to 50%....
I don't think it's so much that the game/AI is inconsistent. It's us that's inconsistent...

Gav88888
30-04-2018, 08:10
Good approach for a quick race with some AI to overtake as you as make progress up the grid, but not really realistic, as in how often do you see someone go from the back and get the win.

Jezza819
30-04-2018, 15:53
This sounds like it ought to work, but my problem is, due to how poorly the AI launch, I'm mid-pack by T1, surrounded by juddering imbeciles bouncing off each other and all too often, me..! Then, if I'm not shunted off, I'll start to work my way up.



To me the AI launch better than I can in a lot of cars so I've lost 6 or 7 spots before we reach turn 1. Or either I get slammed in the rear because I can't launch. With the cars that are sluggish off the line I'm looking in my mirror to try and dodge the AI cars flying through. The BMW 320 TC is one for sure and I think the Porsche 962 although it's been awhile since I've drive that. But there are others that either I can't get to move right away or even if I can I get hit in the rear by the AI's quicker launch.

simsimsheree
30-04-2018, 21:31
To me the AI launch better than I can in a lot of cars so I've lost 6 or 7 spots before we reach turn 1. Or either I get slammed in the rear because I can't launch. With the cars that are sluggish off the line I'm looking in my mirror to try and dodge the AI cars flying through. The BMW 320 TC is one for sure and I think the Porsche 962 although it's been awhile since I've drive that. But there are others that either I can't get to move right away or even if I can I get hit in the rear by the AI's quicker launch.

How are you launching? I tend to dump the clutch and wheelspin off the line and that usually gets me halfway through the pack by T1, especially as they'll hold that stupid 'two wide while you race up the middle' thing...

Now, formation laps and rolling starts, OTOH, I get mugged by the AI (who don't seem to be constrained by the 'no passing the lead car' rules!), but if starting at the rear, it's not an issue. But standing starts, for starters you can block a bit if sluggish off the line, but if you miss the dump, yeah, you are going to be creamed by the graduates of the Stevie Wonder School of Racing!

Jezza819
01-05-2018, 02:21
How are you launching? I tend to dump the clutch and wheelspin off the line and that usually gets me halfway through the pack by T1, especially as they'll hold that stupid 'two wide while you race up the middle' thing...

Now, formation laps and rolling starts, OTOH, I get mugged by the AI (who don't seem to be constrained by the 'no passing the lead car' rules!), but if starting at the rear, it's not an issue. But standing starts, for starters you can block a bit if sluggish off the line, but if you miss the dump, yeah, you are going to be creamed by the graduates of the Stevie Wonder School of Racing!

I don't use a clutch so it's just into 1st gear, hold the brake, raise the revs a little then let go of the brake at the green light.

Gav88888
01-05-2018, 09:19
Rolling starts even when fully automated I get wasted, for some reason as the lights go green it seems the brake momentarily comes on as the front dips as I take control, and in that moment the AI are on the gas...

chrisff87
01-05-2018, 12:25
There was an interesting video by Billy Strange where he talked a bit about this 1st lap AI behaviour. For whatever reason, you gain too many positions on the first turn. And AI in general is really slow on 1st lap.
What he did was just to stay in his position throughout the entire first lap, or even fall back a bit. Then, only on the 2nd lap try to progress through and pass the AI.

I tried this myself over the weekend. I thought it worked quite well. Normally I use about 75-80% AI difficulty (aggression 25-30). I did a 12 lap race at Nurburgring GP and it was tough. The first 4 or 5 places were still pretty easy to gain. But getting up to 4th or 5th was quite a challenge for me. I had to reduce the AI difficulty back to about 60%, and then I was able to get onto the podium in the last couple of laps (but still not win). If I would have increased to about 20 laps, maybe I could have won with the AI at 75%, but it would have been tough. And I like to put full damage on, because this changes things and you tend to drive differently - you think twice before diving up the inside.

Give it a try. I know it doesn't answer the question about how to choose the right AI%. Personally, I'm enjoying the AI racing more than the on-line racing recently.

As for choosing the correct AI%, my opinion is that this has much more to do with how well you know the car and track combination. Whether or not you have a dialed-in setup, or not.
If I'm on a track I know really well, with a car I feel confident in, I can have AI 90%+ and be OK.
Put me on a track I'm still learning, in a different car category, and likely I'm down to 50%....
I don't think it's so much that the game/AI is inconsistent. It's us that's inconsistent...

Just out of curiosity, why do you set the Agression to only 25-30? I am currently doing career mode (I'm the Formula Renault 3.5 series) at 80% difficulty and 70% agression, but the problem I'm having is that about 50% of my races get ruined because I get rear ended (a la Ricciardo-Verstappen this past weekend), which causes my car enough damage (I play with full damage) to either have to retire, or to have to pit and lose enough time to lose the race.
Do you think that lowering the Agression would help with the issue I'm having?

Keena
01-05-2018, 12:30
New approach to AI difficulty- I just set 100% difficulty, 60 aggression and leave it there. If I'm really slow or really fast I'm just accepting it. Having restarted career god knows how many times, the time has come for a common denominator, and that is 100%. I started playing this game at 60, so its probably a futile exercise to muck around with it too much anyway. My advice for career players out there- restart your career with 100. If youre 5 seconds off the pace don't sweat it. Just keep nibbling away at that setup and keep re-competing that championship until you progress. It'll make that 3rd place championship finish mean a huge amount when it eventually comes, and you might even be tempted to re-compete that championship to win it. If you feel that benchmark is too high, set a different one by all means, but set it high and leave it there. Bear in mind that above 100 the AI gets that horsepower boost, so track characteristics become significant (that's why I set 100 and no higher). Hope that helps.

Atak Kat
01-05-2018, 12:42
Just out of curiosity, why do you set the Agression to only 25-30? I am currently doing career mode (I'm the Formula Renault 3.5 series) at 80% difficulty and 70% agression, but the problem I'm having is that about 50% of my races get ruined because I get rear ended (a la Ricciardo-Verstappen this past weekend), which causes my car enough damage (I play with full damage) to either have to retire, or to have to pit and lose enough time to lose the race.
Do you think that lowering the Agression would help with the issue I'm having?

Possibly, yes. I don't have much issue with getting hit from behind.
Only time it happens is in career, with the 24 AI (custom race is only 16) and they get a bit crazy. I find that lowering this aggression helps and they tend to brake a bit earlier.
They just seem to behave a bit more, especially when passing them, or when they might be passing you.
When I turn up the aggression there is just more ramming or side swiping.

Try it for a couple laps, can't hurt to try.

Gav88888
01-05-2018, 13:40
New approach to AI difficulty- I just set 100% difficulty, 60 aggression and leave it there. If I'm really slow or really fast I'm just accepting it. Having restarted career god knows how many times, the time has come for a common denominator, and that is 100%. I started playing this game at 60, so its probably a futile exercise to muck around with it too much anyway. My advice for career players out there- restart your career with 100. If youre 5 seconds off the pace don't sweat it. Just keep nibbling away at that setup and keep re-competing that championship until you progress. It'll make that 3rd place championship finish mean a huge amount when it eventually comes, and you might even be tempted to re-compete that championship to win it. If you feel that benchmark is too high, set a different one by all means, but set it high and leave it there. Bear in mind that above 100 the AI gets that horsepower boost, so track characteristics become significant (that's why I set 100 and no higher). Hope that helps.

Good idea, but I didn't really fancy doing the first championship over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to get myself up to AI 100 skill level.

Keena
01-05-2018, 18:01
Good idea, but I didn't really fancy doing the first championship over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to get myself up to AI 100 skill level.

I dunno, seems the dedication is there...
;)

CSL-Drive
02-05-2018, 18:22
This sounds like it ought to work, but my problem is, due to how poorly the AI launch, I'm mid-pack by T1, surrounded by juddering imbeciles bouncing off each other and all too often, me..! Then, if I'm not shunted off, I'll start to work my way up.

But... Ideally, you are looking at the prospect of battling for first on the last lap or so of the race. But how do you find this ideal without running full race distance? Unless you are running sprints, this seems a pretty inefficient way to figure out AI settings. Try an hour length race, factor in two or three attempts to reach that ideal setting, you've just tossed away a whole day's racing! Just to get one good one... if you ever do find the right setting.

There's something to be said for a bit of rubberbanding, as long as (unlike most games) you can adjust the strength. Rather than waste all day setting the AI to match you, have the AI figure it out in the race... It's nice to set no rubberbanding when you don't want it, but for quick, casual racing, it can save you a LOT of wasted time.
Ah I see, usually the best way to go about this is to decide your race length, and sessions. Then simply take note of your outcomes, regardless of wether you think it is fair or not. So I got formula 1 50% difficulty
practice finished 8th position.
Quit
New
60%
P1, 2= finished 20. P2= 20th P3= 1st.
Q1= 1st, Q2= 11, Q3= X
Race dnf 19th position.

Last last first first middle middle last. So im right at below average of 60% here. Which I think is reasonable difficulty for me. Maybe a bit lower to cope with danger of long race session.

Usually pre race sessions 60% is good enough. Im right in the middle of it.
But during race, I just have to keep up my performance, I end up crashing often. Either I turn off damage, or just lower difficulty and drive more safely. Take allot less risks. Especially with overtaking.

So I just did a 40 lap race f1, started p20, 60% difficulty. Ended p1. Without damage. So much can go wrong during the race and so much did go wrong.
I think it is reasonable if I lowered the difficulty to 30% and turn on damage. How safely can you overtake to p1? Maybe try 40 or 50%. Point is, enjoy the process.

Also don't turn on agression too high. I find 40% high enough to mimmick real life racing agression. Accidents happen, but it doesnt happen so often as to kill the sport.
Turn 1 heroics, yes, that is for every champion to learn to avoid, it is huge part of racing. Start of race is always crazy house. To finish 1st you first have to finish xP

Lord of the Racing
03-05-2018, 06:12
Just out of curiosity, why do you set the Agression to only 25-30? I am currently doing career mode (I'm the Formula Renault 3.5 series) at 80% difficulty and 70% agression, but the problem I'm having is that about 50% of my races get ruined because I get rear ended (a la Ricciardo-Verstappen this past weekend), which causes my car enough damage (I play with full damage) to either have to retire, or to have to pit and lose enough time to lose the race.
Do you think that lowering the Agression would help with the issue I'm having?

What I experienced is that when you set the aggression over 60% the AI start to bump you on the behind and become like the rammers in multiplayer. For my taste the best Aggression level is in between 50% up to 60% at max. Within this range the AI seems be closer to real drivers behaviour because they are enough aggressive but not crazy (do not carry me Verstappen as comparison please. He is not normal :-) )