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DeanUK
05-05-2018, 12:41
Ok, let me start by saying how much I like Project Cars 2, it is definitely the best sim on PS4 at the moment.

My only real criticism is how bad the game handles very small/light contact in a race (online). Yesterday was racing in Touring Car class, in my opinion the best class for close racing. I had the slightest tap to the car in front driven by a friend of mine, at that point my car violently span to the left, it really made no sense as we were both going straight at that point. My friend said he didnít even feel the touch. If you could fix that side of the game it would be so much better.

simsimsheree
05-05-2018, 18:32
Hate to say it, but watch real racing...

The slightest touch CAN result in a bad spin. Admittedly, pro drivers are so good, sometimes they don't, but that is often due to some pretty quick hand work and great reflexes. You may not have those! Nor that seat of the pants feeling a real car gives you when starting to get unsettled.

Was the contact between the two cars dead on, or was it offset? I see a lot of accidents as a lead car sometimes moves over a bit to defend as the trailing car contacts them, adding a bit of sideways motion to the trailing car's front end. If an FWD car, this can loosen the driving tires' grip.

Also, where on the track the contact occurs can be a factor, as bumps in the road amplify the consequences of that front yaw after contact. What track (and where) did the incident occur? It really helps if, any time you have something happen you feel is really strange, to save the replay and analyze it in slow motion. Things that seem minor often look a lot more dramatic in replay...

John Hargreaves
05-05-2018, 21:28
I agree, most of my wtf? moments, once you watch the replay turn into 'ah yes, bit of a 50:50 that one'

Minimitch
05-05-2018, 22:20
Yeah I've had plenty of heavy contact and not crashed as a result so it must have been the way you clipped the car in front

itonz
06-05-2018, 15:43
Different to me.

I'm not touch the front car but him out of the track, and he tell me I crash him :nightmare:

At this point, it happened to me many times.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvsR5-uwsbo

Minimitch
06-05-2018, 16:26
That's either a netcode issue which happens in all games, or he's just lost it and blamed you

simsimsheree
06-05-2018, 19:25
Pretty much a ping or netcode thing there. You can see how the leading car jerks a bit just before he loses it. From his perspective, he got hit by you. If you are from Thailand, you may have some international ping times issues (or your opponent may have).

It is important, especially if using mics, to have everybody report any time they see any weird on track motion, and who is doing it. Lag, whether big or small, is always a part of online racing. If international drivers tell you that they see it in you, I'm afraid the only option is to leave the room and stick to racing in areas that are close to you.

itonz
06-05-2018, 20:20
Pretty much a ping or netcode thing there. You can see how the leading car jerks a bit just before he loses it. From his perspective, he got hit by you. If you are from Thailand, you may have some international ping times issues (or your opponent may have).

It is important, especially if using mics, to have everybody report any time they see any weird on track motion, and who is doing it. Lag, whether big or small, is always a part of online racing. If international drivers tell you that they see it in you, I'm afraid the only option is to leave the room and stick to racing in areas that are close to you.


Many Thanks.

DeanUK
08-05-2018, 10:16
Hate to say it, but watch real racing...

The slightest touch CAN result in a bad spin. Admittedly, pro drivers are so good, sometimes they don't, but that is often due to some pretty quick hand work and great reflexes. You may not have those! Nor that seat of the pants feeling a real car gives you when starting to get unsettled.

Was the contact between the two cars dead on, or was it offset? I see a lot of accidents as a lead car sometimes moves over a bit to defend as the trailing car contacts them, adding a bit of sideways motion to the trailing car's front end. If an FWD car, this can loosen the driving tires' grip.

Also, where on the track the contact occurs can be a factor, as bumps in the road amplify the consequences of that front yaw after contact. What track (and where) did the incident occur? It really helps if, any time you have something happen you feel is really strange, to save the replay and analyze it in slow motion. Things that seem minor often look a lot more dramatic in replay...

I watch the BTCC all the time and the gentle knocks and rubbing don’t result in cars flying off violently, especially on straight, dead on contact. I can understand side on contact or knocking a corner can cause spins but this is nothing like that. I can also understand that open wheel racing, f1, or lmp a knock would be more dramatic, but this is hot hatch racing. I’ve raced other sims and they don’t create these style crashes. It almost feels like SMS are trying to combat the “rammers” but not accepting that slight mishaps or in the case of BTCC slight contact is acceptable. I’m personally a fair racer and have a healthy safety rating.

davidt33
08-05-2018, 10:28
I tend to agree with Dean. At least at times it seems this way with slight touches that you wouldn't think should cause such a spin or crash but does.

wyldanimal
09-05-2018, 15:30
I watch the BTCC all the time and the gentle knocks and rubbing donít result in cars flying off violently, especially on straight, dead on contact. I can understand side on contact or knocking a corner can cause spins but this is nothing like that. I can also understand that open wheel racing, f1, or lmp a knock would be more dramatic, but this is hot hatch racing. Iíve raced other sims and they donít create these style crashes. It almost feels like SMS are trying to combat the ďrammersĒ but not accepting that slight mishaps or in the case of BTCC slight contact is acceptable. Iím personally a fair racer and have a healthy safety rating.

Yeah,
I don't think, the amount of "Loss of control" from minor bumps happen in real life quite as much as it does in Game.
I think the in game consequences / results are a bit exaggerated, and perhaps for good reasons... ???
At least the amount of entanglement has been reduced. in PC 1, cars got glued together from minor bumps.

a Whole lot of real life minor bumping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6rEF2bM_5s

simsimsheree
15-05-2018, 10:40
Everyone forgets... those aren't kids in those BTCC cars. Those are some damn fine drivers. The same contact that they can shrug off would spin 90% of us mere mortals! That was Ken Block in the WRX video. Anybody think they are as good as him? LOL

The thing that gets most of us in PC2 is trying to react to the contact. You have to see what the car is doing before you can do anything about it. Most just wildly saw on the wheel or stick, then wonder why it all went south!

DeanUK
15-05-2018, 19:17
I’ve watched banger racing (amateur) many times and even they don’t spin off in an over exaggerated fashion after contact and they are trying to knock each other off, so no I think it is a game issue not a skill level issue. One of the many bugs issues with this game at the mo. The lobby settings are poor, so to select mixed class, same class or identical you have to start a new lobby??? Really? There is no way of host dictating starting fuel load either. The only reason this game is being used is cos GT Sport is even worse lol...

UkHardcore23
15-05-2018, 23:15
BTCC is a great example of rubbing is racing and slight knocks or even proper knocks dont result in huge crashes or spin outs with contact.

wyldanimal
17-05-2018, 20:15
I've been driving and racing cars since 1978
I don't think I've ever experienced minor contact,
or even Major contact that caused me or the Other car or Cars involved to go Wildly spinning out of control.

Cars are a Whole lot easier to Drive than you think.
It's only in these games where they are next to impossible to control.
and we get remarks of the Likes "They are Professional Drivers behind the Wheel" insinuating that It takes a Professional,
to be able to Drive and control the car.

When was the last time you saw a car negotiating a turn, and suddenly just loose control and spin off the road a couple hundred yards and crash?

Many of these in game incidents happen at low speeds too. speeds under 80 mph.

If real driving was this difficult like it is in the games,
almost every car on every major Highway would be Spinning out of control, because,
clearly we are just amateur drivers and not professional enough to keep the car under control.

DeanUK
18-05-2018, 02:49
I've been driving and racing cars since 1978
I don't think I've ever experienced minor contact,
or even Major contact that caused me or the Other car or Cars involved to go Wildly spinning out of control.

Cars are a Whole lot easier to Drive than you think.
It's only in these games where they are next to impossible to control.
and we get remarks of the Likes "They are Professional Drivers behind the Wheel" insinuating that It takes a Professional,
to be able to Drive and control the car.

When was the last time you saw a car negotiating a turn, and suddenly just loose control and spin off the road a couple hundred yards and crash?

Many of these in game incidents happen at low speeds too. speeds under 80 mph.

If real driving was this difficult like it is in the games,
almost every car on every major Highway would be Spinning out of control, because,
clearly we are just amateur drivers and not professional enough to keep the car under control.

It tends to be the grip in general is a bit hit and miss depending which cars you are in and how cold the tyres are. I too can drive a car in the real world, not as a racer, but having said that, I’ve never lost control on a bend even with the tyres squealing, but it happens all too often on this game with cold tyres - even on the lower powered road cars. It does seem like the physics at low speed aren’t as accurate as they are at high speed. As for trying to drift or oversteer, again it’s all too easy to throw you into a spin. I do like the game but it does feel more difficult than driving.

UkHardcore23
18-05-2018, 08:47
It tends to be the grip in general is a bit hit and miss depending which cars you are in and how cold the tyres are. I too can drive a car in the real world, not as a racer, but having said that, I’ve never lost control on a bend even with the tyres squealing, but it happens all too often on this game with cold tyres - even on the lower powered road cars. It does seem like the physics at low speed aren’t as accurate as they are at high speed. As for trying to drift or oversteer, again it’s all too easy to throw you into a spin. I do like the game but it does feel more difficult than driving.
Sadly thats exactly what "Hardcore sim racers" want. PCARS 1 took alot of stick from the "Hardcore Sim Community" because it was not as difficult to drive as iRacing.

Zaskarspants
18-05-2018, 10:07
Sadly thats exactly what "Hardcore sim racers" want. PCARS 1 took alot of stick from the "Hardcore Sim Community" because it was not as difficult to drive as iRacing.

Really? I find that surprising because pcars2 strength is being much more accessible than pcars1. Pcars1 had very rapid escalation of challenges when driving near the edge and I didn't feel the car 'talked' to me as clearly as pcars2.

I found pcars2 much more accessible for a circuit sim newby when I started pcars2 after starting and abandoning ( largely) pcars1.

DeanUK
18-05-2018, 11:36
Really? I find that surprising because pcars2 strength is being much more accessible than pcars1. Pcars1 had very rapid escalation of challenges when driving near the edge and I didn't feel the car 'talked' to me as clearly as pcars2.

I found pcars2 much more accessible for a circuit sim newby when I started pcars2 after starting and abandoning ( largely) pcars1.

Project Cars 1 was more difficult using default settings, but once you edited the FFB on each car using Jack Spade setups it was actually quite easy to drive and the response was good in my opinion. Don't get me wrong Project Cars 2 is fun to drive and reacts well, but only in certain cars. The touring car class is great, nice close racing, cars handle pretty well, as you'd expect. But it's the slight contact that ruins it with dramatic results. Project Cars 2 is also better for people using a pad without too much adjustment, whereas project cars 1 you needed a maths degree to get your setup working. Why not have a setting in the lobby setup that lets you adjust the impact of contact other than just on or off (ghosting which is not at all realistic)? I like a slidey car that you can hang on to and can correct, but it's such a fine line on this game.

I don't understand why a sim needs to be more difficult than reality.

Zaskarspants
18-05-2018, 11:56
A sim will always be more difficult than reality precisely because it is a sim. The trick is in tuning the restricted set of sensory inputs that are much reduced compared to real life so as to trick the brain and achieve a sense of immersion.

I do not have any issues with contact in the game and i find that it is simulated convincingly, the AI rub me and I rub them and I don't sense any crazy physics.

I don't play online yet in pcars2 yet so it may be an online only issue.

UkHardcore23
18-05-2018, 13:17
Really? I find that surprising because pcars2 strength is being much more accessible than pcars1. Pcars1 had very rapid escalation of challenges when driving near the edge and I didn't feel the car 'talked' to me as clearly as pcars2.

I found pcars2 much more accessible for a circuit sim newby when I started pcars2 after starting and abandoning ( largely) pcars1.

Ive certainly not found it as accessible as the first title. I do find the physics much more playful but jumping right in and doing a few laps with a few cars for me it was easier in the first title. Jack of Spades ffb settings also took the ffb to another level which were much better than ive been able to get myself on PCARS 2.

Zaskarspants
18-05-2018, 13:37
Ive certainly not found it as accessible as the first title. I do find the physics much more playful but jumping right in and doing a few laps with a few cars for me it was easier in the first title. Jack of Spades ffb settings also took the ffb to another level which were much better than ive been able to get myself on PCARS 2.

How did you use JS ffb settings? I thought that was down loadable files for the pc only?
Did you type them in long hand? I did change three of the main settings as advised on the pc1 forum, but I recall having to enter it longhand and it was very laborious with the slow clunky menus.

Alfisti
18-05-2018, 13:53
I cannot fathom how anyone can say PC2 is easier than PC1. The cars are so damn twitchy, even low powered ones. i do however, agree that if one can get a handle on them the feel is better than PC1, you can feel the grip and loss of grip better.

UkHardcore23
18-05-2018, 15:11
How did you use JS ffb settings? I thought that was down loadable files for the pc only?
Did you type them in long hand? I did change three of the main settings as advised on the pc1 forum, but I recall having to enter it longhand and it was very laborious with the slow clunky menus.

Last game they were all wrote out and hosted on a site then you changed them all by hand yeah. The difference they made was staggering tbh im amazed SMS didnt hire the guy for PCARS 2.

You dont find these menus clunky? Just changing the number of laps requires waaaaaaaaay to many button presses.

Zaskarspants
19-05-2018, 10:07
Last game they were all wrote out and hosted on a site then you changed them all by hand yeah. The difference they made was staggering tbh im amazed SMS didnt hire the guy for PCARS 2.

You dont find these menus clunky? Just changing the number of laps requires waaaaaaaaay to many button presses.

I think they did hire Jack Spade to support Pcars2 development as I believe he developed some of the flavours. As for the menus, I was referring to the pc1 habit of leaving you stuck as the page moved, often for minutes. Maybe it was ok on ps4?

I find the ui on pcars2 very smooth in comparison to pc1.

DeanUK
22-05-2018, 18:49
A sim will always be more difficult than reality precisely because it is a sim. The trick is in tuning the restricted set of sensory inputs that are much reduced compared to real life so as to trick the brain and achieve a sense of immersion.

I do not have any issues with contact in the game and i find that it is simulated convincingly, the AI rub me and I rub them and I don't sense any crazy physics.

I don't play online yet in pcars2 yet so it may be an online only issue.

So you donít race online but youíve commented on an issue which happens with online racing... think before you comment.

simsimsheree
23-05-2018, 01:55
Part of being able to react in a real world situation compared to a video game is FEELING being hit. You know where and how hard, and can feel the car rotate, or slide or wobble by the seat of your pants. You can also feel the moment you start to get grip back...

In a game without kinesthetics, a lot of the cues that tell you you've been hit get lost.

The thing is, at this level of detail in grip and tire model, is there anything else on the market that manages to pull off collision physics without dumbing down the physics when driving without contact? I don't know of one. Yes, GT6/Sport, you can bump and rub with little consequence (compared to PC2), but at the cost of a pretty dumb arcade handling and tire model.

I know in AC, contact is as difficult to get away with... in fact, I find in AC, once you lose grip, it's far harder to get it back than PC2. Spins seem a lot harder to recover from.

Now, some of our issues in PC2 may come from a pretty poor handling model on the grass, but overall, if I'm just rubbed on tarmac or concrete in PC2, I can often save it. But the grass is rarely survived!

Sankyo
23-05-2018, 07:23
So you don’t race online but you’ve commented on an issue which happens with online racing... think before you comment.
He did state "I don't play online yet in pcars2 yet so it may be an online only issue", so why being aggressive while he already admitted that it could be online-only? It only helps with narrowing down the problem, i.e. it possibly being related to delayed collision detection.

DeanUK
26-05-2018, 11:58
He did state "I don't play online yet in pcars2 yet so it may be an online only issue", so why being aggressive while he already admitted that it could be online-only? It only helps with narrowing down the problem, i.e. it possibly being related to delayed collision detection.

I started the thread... with "Ok, let me start by saying how much I like Project Cars 2, it is definitely the best sim on PS4 at the moment.

My only real criticism is how bad the game handles very small/light contact in a race (online). Yesterday was racing in Touring Car class, in my opinion the best class for close racing. I had the slightest tap to the car in front driven by a friend of mine, at that point my car violently span to the left, it really made no sense as we were both going straight at that point. My friend said he didn’t even feel the touch. If you could fix that side of the game it would be so much better." Which was a valid and constructive point, with the aim of the devs to maybe look into this.

I made no mention about project cars 2 campaign/offline mode... I found it irritating that someone was telling me/preaching that an issue I've bought to the attention of the forum/devs doesn't exist, telling me that the physics is convincing, and then pointing out they've never even tried racing online yet. It completely undermined my genuine issue. Yes my response was a bit blunt, but I'm certainly not a troll and I take objection to being portrayed as one. I merely pointed out that he should take more notice of the core subject before arguing against it and making himself look silly. My response wasn't offensive or abusive.

simsimsheree
26-05-2018, 19:11
IMHO, there's no difference in collision physics between online and offline.

Possibly there are some issues on lower power consoles with very large grids (there are definitely graphics and FFB issues under those circumstances), but on the whole, I haven't noticed a difference.