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fresquito
12-05-2018, 17:17
So I have not raced this car in real life, but I've raced it in PC1 and PC2 before the patch and it always was this very grippy car, with a slightly happy tail. Now, even on stable setup, it's very dificult to drive. Braking takes a lot and acceleration on turn exit is superbly tricky. Moreso than some other cars in the rain. Could it be the car is using the wrong tyres or that the tyres it's using are not good for this car after the latest patch?

I hope the blue guys can check it out.

hkraft300
13-05-2018, 04:41
What tire compound were you using?
What was your tire pressure?
What was the track and tire temperatures?

Leper Messiah
13-05-2018, 09:06
Had a little blap round Long beach (wet and dry) stable setup and felt no real issues. Had to move the brake balance to the rear to stop the fronts locking. Corner exit was no issue at all, are you sure the right tyres were on the car for the conditions?

fresquito
13-05-2018, 09:47
I was using slicks. Different track temps, different tracks, always dry. All of them, to a major or minor degree, had the same issues. It was not only me. 8 people playing, different levels, but overall on the high end of skill were having issues.

And by issues I don't mean spinning like crazy, just having to be extremely careful with the driving. Going by videos I've seen, and earlier experiences with the car, my gut feeling is the car should not be so hard to push with. I could be wrong, though.

hkraft300
13-05-2018, 10:14
On slicks.
On a wet track.
You reckon that should be easy?

fresquito
13-05-2018, 10:21
What?

Seelenkrank
13-05-2018, 12:06
On slicks.
On a wet track.
You reckon that should be easy?

he did not say that he testdrives in wet track.

hkraft300
13-05-2018, 12:25
he did not say that he testdrives in wet track.

My mistake. I read it wrong, in a hurry.
But without answers to the following questions:


What tire compound were you using?
What was your tire pressure?
What was the track and tire temperatures?

There's little to be offered or analysed.

I think there's only the 1 one dry compound for the radical race cars. Pressures however are important.
They're not easy to drive anyway, and I think the v8 radical is much harder to drive (much more power) than the smaller SR3.

Zaskarspants
13-05-2018, 14:27
I drove this car briefly months ago a spun and crashed and spun and moved on. I revisited it today with improved skill and some knowledge of car handling and tuning.

Yes, it is a beast, there is nothing wrong with the tyres, I could keep pace with the AI at 90, just, on default set loose.

This car as a very highly tuned NA engine, a V8 made from two Suzuki motorcycle engines so the torque is poor low down and it likes to rev high. This is mated to a very clunky sequential with no auto blip with, crucially, wide road car like ratios. This car is finely balanced and quick to react so down changes crashing through wide ratios unsettle the car.

The default set up also has a very fast steering ratio of about 10, this makes a twitchy car feel even twitchier and difficult to handle when the down changes unbalance it.

I also found the brakes very sensitive adding to the overall drama.

With all this sorted, much much closer ratios, MAX overrun (important), lower steering ratio ( I used 14) and reduced brake sensitivity the car is much less scary but you do always have to be very careful on the throttle. These changes only gained me a second per lap but I was much less likely to crash. Increased df on short tracks really helps.

Mahjik
13-05-2018, 18:09
Moreso than some other cars in the rain.


he did not say that he testdrives in wet track.

He did have a remark towards rain. To be honest, I originally assumed he was talking about wet/rain driving as well based on that remark. I believe he was suggesting the dry behavior was like driving in the rain (after reading several posts afterwards).

falm
14-05-2018, 07:24
I have the same problem (no grip in the dry) with this car in the "Sports Car Lites" Career Events. But only in the race, not so much in practice and qualifying.

demand34
14-05-2018, 08:34
@_OP: After the terrible mess 5.0 has left on the slicks behaviour, yesterday out of desperation while trying to control oneof the cars I was once able to fly with, the Aston Vulkan on those Pirelly slicks (not GT slicks), I have "found out" (not sure yet you know) that reducing this slicks to its minimum value (1.00 BAR) makes the car drivable again, and even safe and predictable.

However, after that I had a GTE race at spa with tarmac very hot, and before starting the race I knew that with these new hards the car would be a joke in what it comes to behaviour when reducing them pressure the usual couple of clicks to the left. Well.., I started the race with a cold pressure of 1'80 (yeah LeLz for slicks) in order to reach the old suggested by Michellin 2'2 BAR (32 psi), and man..., the car magically could be driven with ease once again, like in old patches. (no assists here)

So many laughs with 5.0 I know.

First try the first advice I give to you in the first paragraph because I think that car is a track day one, right?, so it also uses the Pirelli Slicks track dat compund like the Vulkan. Reduce the cold pressure to 1.00 (you will reach a hot pressure of about 1'38), and please come back and tell me what you experienced. I want to know

hkraft300
14-05-2018, 08:42
The radical slicks need much lower pressure than GT tires. See here. (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps)

GTE tires weren't adjusted the same as GT3 tires for patch 5. They're not the same. Casey Ringley also recommends ~1.8 bar hot for GTE (see above link). Still applicable in patch 5. "Lelz" for sure.

Leper Messiah
14-05-2018, 09:00
I was using slicks. Different track temps, different tracks, always dry. All of them, to a major or minor degree, had the same issues. It was not only me. 8 people playing, different levels, but overall on the high end of skill were having issues.

And by issues I don't mean spinning like crazy, just having to be extremely careful with the driving. Going by videos I've seen, and earlier experiences with the car, my gut feeling is the car should not be so hard to push with. I could be wrong, though.

my bolds.....so correct me if I'm wrong but you're saying that when pushing the car to the higher end of it's limits you have to be careful.... and you think that's wrong? I'm not uber fast but I'm not too shabby and like I posted I had no issues with the car at all it's very stable and controllable.

fresquito
14-05-2018, 15:10
my bolds.....so correct me if I'm wrong but you're saying that when pushing the car to the higher end of it's limits you have to be careful.... and you think that's wrong? I'm not uber fast but I'm not too shabby and like I posted I had no issues with the car at all it's very stable and controllable.
No, what I'm saying is people I know that tend to cope first places in league racing have problems controlling this car because it's super delicate which I don't think it should be. Again, I could be wrong.

I posted this in case a blue guy is willing to test the car so maybe he can agree or disagree the car might be in not a good spot at the moment. Hey, maybe pressures are way too high on default setups and need being toned down for better driveability! Maybe there's a bigger problem. maybe the problem is my perception.

demand34
14-05-2018, 15:14
Maybe there's a bigger problem. maybe the problem is my perception.heheh you were so missed in the GT slicks behaviour thread : - D

Jokes aside, please first try lowering the pirelli slicks cold pressure to the bare minimum of 1'00 bar (to reach a 1'40 hot pressure or so)and report back. If the radical uses the same slicks as the Vulkan (if it is a track day car then it should use those slicks too), then I made the Vulkan driveable again by doing that, although I agree that default pressures mean so many laughs then, and should be adjusted with devs, or at least a little better and from there make us to investigate and try to find the proper cold pressure by ourselves.

After this, then restart the session but now with an increased cold pressure of 1'20 (to reach 1'60bar or so), and see if the car behaves even better than before.

Report back after you do these two things. I want to know whether you experience a very big improvement or not at this.

UkHardcore23
14-05-2018, 17:25
I think there is a bug with the Radical SR-X8, For the most part it's difficult to drive but then all of a sudden it's near impossible to drive out of the blue. I had one race with it (made a thread on here) that i could not take a single corner without spinning out.

demand34
14-05-2018, 18:28
I think there is a bug with the Radical SR-X8, For the most part it's difficult to drive but then all of a sudden it's near impossible to drive out of the blue. I had one race with it (made a thread on here) that i could not take a single corner without spinning out.Please try the two suggested tips I gave above before coming to the conclussion that the car is bugged. I thought the same about the same tires when driving the Vulkan and the Zonda Revolution (cars that use the same track day pirelli slicks if I'm not mistaken), and solved the problem by doing what I suggest in the previous post.

Try and report back, but do it on unstable setups please. Results on stable setups are completely irrelevant.

hkraft300
14-05-2018, 23:57
...
. Results on stable setups are completely irrelevant.

:glee:

sloppysmusic
15-05-2018, 00:51
I think there is a bug with the Radical SR-X8, For the most part it's difficult to drive but then all of a sudden it's near impossible to drive out of the blue. I had one race with it (made a thread on here) that i could not take a single corner without spinning out.

Can you remember the exact series and races this happened? If you go back and do then again is it always the same track in same series? If you go back and problem is the same try putting on wet tires. In 2 formula rookie races this solved it for me and was in fact the only way I could complete the races without lowering the ai to a very low figure

Bealdor
15-05-2018, 06:26
Try and report back, but do it on unstable setups please. Results on stable setups are completely irrelevant.

Can you stop this nonsense please? There is no hidden magical assist in the stable default setup that suddenly makes cars drivable.
So stop spreading false information.

demand34
15-05-2018, 06:58
Look into my eye

blinkngone
15-05-2018, 10:02
Look into my eye

Oh man that could certainly explain why you are having problems that almost no one else is experiencing. Driving this game with 2 eyes is difficult but having only one eye is even more challenging. It is more difficult again if your one eye also has bad vision as well. A couple of things I have tried is rotating the screen a little to try and get more of the screen in focus left to right if you are using a monitor or if it is screen fixed to a wall or something you need to rotate your head. I am stuck rotating my head a little because the glasses I have are ground on center but you could see your eye Dr. and could have a prescription ground off center for you. Another thing is don't use cockpit view, with one eye it is just too difficult, use one of the external cameras. It might not be that you are just a bad driver who can't drive a Loose setup but your hand eye coordination might be off just enough that you are having issues and maybe with a few adjustments to your working environment you will be able to become a better driver. I have also learned how to setup and drive a Loose setup with my one arm as well and some people with 2 arms can also drive my setups. Don't give up, Loose is faster.

UkHardcore23
15-05-2018, 10:18
Can you remember the exact series and races this happened? If you go back and do then again is it always the same track in same series? If you go back and problem is the same try putting on wet tires. In 2 formula rookie races this solved it for me and was in fact the only way I could complete the races without lowering the ai to a very low figure

I was stuck for weeks on it just spinning out constantly at every corner, Fired it up one day and i was glued to the road and came first thats why i think the car must be bugged. Funnily enough i did notice the wets gave more grip n the Formula Rookie races myself as that was the first series i entered and i did try the wets on the Radical but same outcome.

demand34
15-05-2018, 10:54
Oh man that could certainly explain why you are having problems that almost no one else is experiencing. Driving this game with 2 eyes is difficult but having only one eye is even more challenging. It is more difficult again if your one eye also has bad vision as well. A couple of things I have tried is rotating the screen a little to try and get more of the screen in focus left to right if you are using a monitor or if it is screen fixed to a wall or something you need to rotate your head. I am stuck rotating my head a little because the glasses I have are ground on center but you could see your eye Dr. and could have a prescription ground off center for you. Another thing is don't use cockpit view, with one eye it is just too difficult, use one of the external cameras. It might not be that you are just a bad driver who can't drive a Loose setup but your hand eye coordination might be off just enough that you are having issues and maybe with a few adjustments to your working environment you will be able to become a better driver. I have also learned how to setup and drive a Loose setup with my one arm as well and some people with 2 arms can also drive my setups. Don't give up, Loose is faster.Sorry I don't understand. Are you able to make more sense in just a couple of lines better than in a wall?, it makes my eyes bleed. Do you mean you are cross-eyed, and that you solved this by turning your monitor a little to one side to compensate your lack of spatial awareness?

blinkngone
15-05-2018, 11:36
Ok so you have 2 eyes. People with one eye and one arm can drive Loose. People with no legs can drive Loose. Most people regardless of platform, controller or other considerations can drive Loose. You need to make up stories about Stable magic because you can't drive Loose. Deal with it. If I can make your eyes bleed than there is hope you might eventually lose enough of it just to disappear. Bleed on.

Sankyo
15-05-2018, 12:01
Please return to topic, the guy has gone.

cpcdem
15-05-2018, 15:22
For what it's worth, I also can't drive this car. I had not tried it before, but did now and it's very hard for me to keep it on the track. I went to TT, picked the first ghost who's on default setup, 5 seconds slower that the top time, I see he has made several errors, but I can hardly keep up with him, he is destroying me in the corners, which I need to take very slowly, in order to avoid spinning out.

Maybe after more practice I will be able to improve, but after 10 laps or so, I am seeing exactly what fresquito is describing in his post. Could be a local/hardware issue, although I have double checked and made sure I am still running with -pthreads 4. Unfortunately I had not run the car before patch 5, to be able to compare.

UkHardcore23
15-05-2018, 17:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSx3GZzJ6MY

Actually looks harder in real life than in game well for a couple of minutes then he has it down. Looks far easier top control in real life....But Sim heads prefer in game to be much harder than real life right?

SlowBloke
15-05-2018, 19:04
tbh - i also scratch my head when driving the 8.... its so very very very nervous on the backlegs..... and its only recently. The SR3 is bags of fun and I get the SR8 has a bucket load more weight and power going against it but it just seems to turn its ass to the front so easily more than anything else out there...

Anyhow feel free to say its accurate etc.. but going back to the days from GTR mod / GTR1 to GTR2 - a big section of the community swore unless it was spinning on every corner it wasnt a sim - it just kinda feels the same here... the usual defenses...

Sure Im not good at set ups - but do we have to be able to be rocket scientists to keep the car on the road ? it should be as real life - you dont know setups - use default and stay within a second or 2 off the faster setups tops... it should not be unless you get set ups right you are sliding on every other corner.

Alternatively someone please tell me what I need to change from default setups lets say on Donnington 14 May 2018 real weather to make it remotely driveable ? And lastly if it really is setup changes... then imo the default setups should be able to get us around a track safely driving within 85% like real life...

blinkngone
15-05-2018, 21:15
For what it's worth, I also can't drive this car. I had not tried it before, but did now and it's very hard for me to keep it on the track. I went to TT, picked the first ghost who's on default setup, 5 seconds slower that the top time, I see he has made several errors, but I can hardly keep up with him, he is destroying me in the corners, which I need to take very slowly, in order to avoid spinning out.

Maybe after more practice I will be able to improve, but after 10 laps or so, I am seeing exactly what fresquito is describing in his post. Could be a local/hardware issue, although I have double checked and made sure I am still running with -pthreads 4. Unfortunately I had not run the car before patch 5, to be able to compare.


Hi cpcdem, if you have time could you run Silverstone National for me? I am 3rd .485 out of 1st but I am almost certain the WR is too slow. The track is different but in PC1 I have the WR at 0:48.785 so I used to know this car.

Yeah something is definitely different in PC2 with this car, Monza PC1 1:35.820 and Monza PC2 1:43.058 and the spread is like this for a lot of tracks but the fast guys from PC1 with this car are not running PC2.

cpcdem
15-05-2018, 21:39
Hi cpcdem, if you have time could you run Silverstone National for me? I am 3rd .485 out of 1st but I am almost certain the WR is too slow. The track is different but in PC1 I have the WR at 0:48.785 so I used to know this car.

Yeah something is definitely different in PC2 with this car, Monza PC1 1:35.820 and Monza PC2 1:43.058 and the spread is like this for a lot of tracks but the fast guys from PC1 with this car are not running PC2.

Hi Blink, yes Silverstone National was the first track I tried at (as always :)), but I had a hard time even managing to make that last corner even before starting the lap, so abandoned it, went to Brno, same thing. I will give it another try, though.

Edit: sorry, can't get close to you, I need to take the slow corners in 3rd or 4th gear and I am losing a lot of time there...

blinkngone
16-05-2018, 00:32
Yeah, ok, sorry you are having issues. I had not driven the car in PC2 before this thread and initially I was having a lot of problems with grip so I guess SMS had to change some things for this car to slow it down for PC2. In PC1 the main issue with this car to me and a few others was it was difficult to keep the rear tires under the car because of severe overheating. Now it is different, maybe they altered the weight balance because it seems to me it wants to spin/oversteer too easily. Or possibly the PC2 physics/ tire model was enough to adversely impact the performance. I am working on the rear suspension, I've softened it up quite a bit but then I had to increase the bump stops because the rear end was moving up and down too much destabilizing it. I also had to move the brake bias to the rear just to get it to turn in a little. Improved a little to a 0:52.115 +0:00.242, sorry everything takes me so long now.

Did you already drive my car? Is that why you had to take the corners so slow?

cpcdem
16-05-2018, 00:47
Did you already drive my car? Is that why you had to take the corners so slow?

No, I only tried it on default. Sorry, I am very stubborn about setups, I like using tuning for bringing a car closer to my style, but I hate using it for completely changing how a car handles, because it is not driveable (by me, in my PC) on default setup. I prefer to either learn to drive it the way it is supposed to be driven, or, just in case something is indeed wrong with it, that the devs fix it before I attempt to drive it again.

But ok, I will give your setup a try, I am sure it will be driving a lot better this way :)

blinkngone
16-05-2018, 01:17
No, I only tried it on default. Sorry, I am very stubborn about setups, I like using tuning for bringing a car closer to my style, but I hate using it for completely changing how a car handles, because it is not driveable (by me, in my PC) on default setup. I prefer to either learn to drive it the way it is supposed to be driven, or, just in case something is indeed wrong with it, that the devs fix it before I attempt to drive it again.

But ok, I will give your setup a try, I am sure it will be driving a lot better this way :)

Yeah I understand Fresquito's OP and your Default comments but since I rarely can drive Default anyway it doesn't matter if it isn't right. Just trying to be objective the car does seem to easily spin on Default and needs some tuning to make it driveable.

Rinpoku does have a few Default WRs from a while back, I don't know the history of the car in regard to the patches so I don't know if it has new tires with 5.0.

cpcdem
16-05-2018, 01:45
I don't know either, but, as expected, with your setup it was much better. Not sure what you changed, but I could push easier than with default. Still couldn't catch you though, you're destroying me in the last corner, I can't manage to go as fast as you go through there. For the rest of the lap, we're on par.

blinkngone
16-05-2018, 02:09
I don't know either, but, as expected, with your setup it was much better. Not sure what you changed, but I could push easier than with default. Still couldn't catch you though, you're destroying me in the last corner, I can't manage to go as fast as you go through there. For the rest of the lap, we're on par.

Sorry, still messing with the setup, kind of wore me out. All of us on the same patch are close and believe it or not 3 of us have only run this car at this track. Doesn't help Fresquito much except we can all sympathize. This was such a popular car in PC1 with 189 runs at Monza, now with PC2 there have been only 18 runs total at Monza. Could be that that the downgrade just turned most people off.

blinkngone
16-05-2018, 11:14
This is the only video I could find of the Radical at Silverstone, Mansell sets the new record in 2017 and it looks to be in the 1:58s. https://driver61.com/resources/example-fast-laps/radical/silverston-gp-radical-sr8/
So the PC1 Radical record was 1:48.182 for this car, looks way too fast so SMS changed it to be more realistic? The PC2 WR is 1:56.477 but most of the rest of the runs were in the 1:58s so pretty close to reality, really. THe real car in the video doesn't seem to be as nervous as the game's and does a fine job with the curbs in reality while my game car is a b***h. It takes some effort to get the car to work and for some people it is possible but for most it apparently isn't worth the effort. In the game TKDA class it will be mostly up against the Vulcan and Mitsubishi while the G57 wipes the field followed by the GTR and Revolucion.

Sankyo
16-05-2018, 11:26
What set-up changes have you guys tried to cure the rear-end instability of this car? The car being unstable over kerbs sounds like a diff setting being off?

cpcdem
16-05-2018, 12:26
What set-up changes have you guys tried to cure the rear-end instability of this car? The car being unstable over kerbs sounds like a diff setting being off?

I just used blink's setup, didn't check what he has changed from default. Unfortunately in PC2 it's a pain doing that, you need to take screenshots of all setup pages, default and the modified ones and compare visually. In PC1 I think we had a clear visual indication on which setup params were still in default value and which had been modified. But blink you will tell you what he changed.

It's not about kerbs, though, it's the general twichiness, just a slight press of the throttle while turning, most of the time sends the car spinning. There are corners that are supposed to be taken in 2nd gear, but I am finding this almost impossible, spinning out 4 out of 5 times, unless I use no throttle at all till the car is straight, so I needed to use 3rd/4th gear, but of course this is slow.

Could be again a hardware related issue, mine and blink's PCs are not the fastest in the world, might be worth asking other people to test it as well, on more powerful PCs...

Sankyo
16-05-2018, 13:40
I'll test it when I have time (it used to be one of my favourite cars), but that will only happen tomorrow evening the earliest.

blinkngone
16-05-2018, 13:54
I just used blink's setup, didn't check what he has changed from default. Unfortunately in PC2 it's a pain doing that, you need to take screenshots of all setup pages, default and the modified ones and compare visually. In PC1 I think we had a clear visual indication on which setup params were still in default value and which had been modified. But blink you will tell you what he changed.

It's not about kerbs, though, it's the general twichiness, just a slight press of the throttle while turning, most of the time sends the car spinning. There are corners that are supposed to be taken in 2nd gear, but I am finding this almost impossible, spinning out 4 out of 5 times, unless I use no throttle at all till the car is straight, so I needed to use 3rd/4th gear, but of course this is slow.

Could be again a hardware related issue, mine and blink's PCs are not the fastest in the world, might be worth asking other people to test it as well, on more powerful PCs...

Yeah at least on my PC with the slightest nudge of the steering wheel I can light up the rear tires sending me spinning as well. I am working at reducing the ratio to the 9s to try and reduce the input. The grip/slip issue reminds me of the 5.0 patch GT3s tires but we don't know if the TKDAs got new tires as a group or just the radical or even possibly no change. There have been few successful TT runs since the patch with far more runs being considerably slower but with such an unpopular car it's hard to tell. 80Daze has good run at Zolder from October but since he hasn't run recently we don't know if he would note a change.

Sankyo has a much more powerful PC than either of us so maybe he won't have an issue.

blinkngone
16-05-2018, 14:00
I'll test it when I have time (it used to be one of my favourite cars), but that will only happen tomorrow evening the earliest.

Ok thanks, Sankyo. When you do get a chance to run it just try adding some quick wheel input at turning and see if the rear tires light up. Please try Silverstone National since we have 4 patch 5.0 runs stacked up behind a WR patch 4.0 run. Oh I have tried altering the LSD for better curb response but it is dicey and the video shows Mansell being able to punish the curbs, but then again he is a pro and I am not.

blinkngone
16-05-2018, 14:48
I'll test it when I have time (it used to be one of my favourite cars), but that will only happen tomorrow evening the earliest.

Hey Sankyo, just an FYI about what I found at RBR. Note that the tire pressure targets for this car are 24 PSI.
Here is the Tire pressure used in the WR run.
254568
On track.
254569
Default tire pressures.
254570

blinkngone
16-05-2018, 20:15
Hey cpcdem, I think I fixed the setup issue that was causing you problems. 2nd place now.
254583

cpcdem
16-05-2018, 22:25
Hey cpcdem, I think I fixed the setup issue that was causing you problems. 2nd place now.


Thanks blink, it was a lot better, I was close to you, but did not fit my style completely. So I started from scratch, from Default Loose, decreased pressures (1.09/1.07 bar) and put rear downforce to max (10) as you had done, put brake bias to the rear (50/50) for better turn in at the first corner, disabled the geared differential and set Preload at 100, Power at 90 and Coast at 20 in the clutch diff for maximum stability under braking, acceleration and transition between the two and the car became nice to drive for me, got the first spot for now. (also closed the radiator of course)

Unfortunately my ghosts do not save anymore in TT, so you cannot use a ghost to go faster than it, but just to let you know, I gained 1 tenth in turns 1/2 and another 1-2 tenths in the last left corner, before the long slow right one. You can't get my setup either, but it's exactly as I described it above.

blinkngone
17-05-2018, 00:11
Thanks blink, it was a lot better, I was close to you, but did not fit my style completely. So I started from scratch, from Default Loose, decreased pressures (1.09/1.07 bar) and put rear downforce to max (10) as you had done, put brake bias to the rear (50/50) for better turn in at the first corner, disabled the geared differential and set Preload at 100, Power at 90 and Coast at 20 in the clutch diff for maximum stability under braking, acceleration and transition between the two and the car became nice to drive for me, got the first spot for now. (also closed the radiator of course)

Unfortunately my ghosts do not save anymore in TT, so you cannot use a ghost to go faster than it, but just to let you know, I gained 1 tenth in turns 1/2 and another 1-2 tenths in the last left corner, before the long slow right one. You can't get my setup either, but it's exactly as I described it above.

Cool cpcdem! Thanks for keeping after it. I couldn't run my tire pressures as low as TchAk did at RBR on my rear tires, as far as I can tell dimitri82 started the lower pressures based on the time his run was uploaded and the people soon followed so the top 5 runs at RBR all use that 15.81(1.09 Bar) Front and 13.20(0.91 Bar) Rear. Today Distinguished Lee made a run at Zolder but I can't check his setup for tire pressures because his Ghost didn't upload(seems to be going around lately:D). I checked some of 80Daze' previous runs and he was just using Default pressures prior to 5.0 so something is amiss. At least we can confirm Fresquito's and his group's initial unpleasant surprise when they tried to run with the Default pressures. The pressure reduction seems to work similar to GT3. When Sankyo has time to make his run maybe he will confirm this as well. If Sankyo can confirm this it should possibly go into AsTurbo's thread so Casey can correct his tire pressure guide. I think your run is closer to what I expected a good run to be for this track, mine is still pretty good though because I am from a slower Region.;)
80Daze' tire pressures prior to 5.0
254592
Doh, my current tire pressures.
254593

Sankyo
17-05-2018, 19:57
OK so I drove some laps in the SR8 at Silverstone GP, getting used to the car as I've hardly driven it in pC2. My thoughts:
- high-speed power oversteer if you turn the steering wheel beyond a certain angle
- serrated kerbs unsettle the car very much when on the throttle
- back end loses traction easily when cornering over crests (again when turning the steering wheel beyond a certain angle)

I didn't fiddle with the set-up much, basically stable with engine braking at 8 and I think coast diff bias ratio 4.0:1 isn't default. Personally I don't think that the car's rear-end stability has anything to do with the tyres, or at least not only them but more the car's set-up. Furthermore, the car only weighs 680kg, so isn't it somewhat logical for it to be sensitive to kerbs?
Now my memory may be betraying me, but I think back in pC1 we had cars behaving in a very similar way. Cannot remember whether the SR8 was one of them, though, but it may be that tweaking the tyres was part of the solution. Depends a bit on whether the SR8's slicks are shared by other cars in the game, and if yes whether they show the same behaviour.

cpcdem
17-05-2018, 20:57
OK so I drove some laps in the SR8 at Silverstone GP, getting used to the car as I've hardly driven it in pC2. My thoughts:
- high-speed power oversteer if you turn the steering wheel beyond a certain angle
- serrated kerbs unsettle the car very much when on the throttle
- back end loses traction easily when cornering over crests (again when turning the steering wheel beyond a certain angle)

I didn't fiddle with the set-up much, basically stable with engine braking at 8 and I think coast diff bias ratio 4.0:1 isn't default. Personally I don't think that the car's rear-end stability has anything to do with the tyres, or at least not only them but more the car's set-up. Furthermore, the car only weighs 680kg, so isn't it somewhat logical for it to be sensitive to kerbs?
Now my memory may be betraying me, but I think back in pC1 we had cars behaving in a very similar way. Cannot remember whether the SR8 was one of them, though, but it may be that tweaking the tyres was part of the solution. Depends a bit on whether the SR8's slicks are shared by other cars in the game, and if yes whether they show the same behaviour.

Thanks for testing it! So, no matter if it is the tires or something else, how do you feel about it, does it seem OK to you, or do you think it needs to be changed somehow? In my opinion (without having ever driven anything similar of course!) is that this very big twitchyness is not normal, I don't see how someone can enjoy driving this car when it is handling like that. For myself, in order to be able to drive it competitively, I had to put the diff power angle to 90 (which if I understand the terminology right, means no locking effect at all), which I don't think is realistic, but was the only workaround I could find.

blinkngone
17-05-2018, 23:00
OK so I drove some laps in the SR8 at Silverstone GP, getting used to the car as I've hardly driven it in pC2. My thoughts:
- high-speed power oversteer if you turn the steering wheel beyond a certain angle
- serrated kerbs unsettle the car very much when on the throttle
- back end loses traction easily when cornering over crests (again when turning the steering wheel beyond a certain angle)

I didn't fiddle with the set-up much, basically stable with engine braking at 8 and I think coast diff bias ratio 4.0:1 isn't default. Personally I don't think that the car's rear-end stability has anything to do with the tyres, or at least not only them but more the car's set-up. Furthermore, the car only weighs 680kg, so isn't it somewhat logical for it to be sensitive to kerbs?
Now my memory may be betraying me, but I think back in pC1 we had cars behaving in a very similar way. Cannot remember whether the SR8 was one of them, though, but it may be that tweaking the tyres was part of the solution. Depends a bit on whether the SR8's slicks are shared by other cars in the game, and if yes whether they show the same behaviour.

Ok, thanks for making the run Sankyo. I drove the car quite a bit in PC1 and apart from it being a lot faster it was also a lot more stable for me. So the steering input oversteer was there for you as well even though your computer is much better than mine or cpcdem's, it is either the changes to the car or tires or a combination of both. I guess you didn't have a chance to try a Default Loose run but your observations are similar to Fresquito's although with Default Loose they would be more exaggerated. Too bad you didn't get a chance to run at National, cpcdem's 0:51.659 is probably within a few tenths of the potential with this car, we also have 5 cars within 0:52.004 +0:00.345 there. I have made changes to the car that have improved the kerbing reaction but I think it is off anyway. I spent most of my time tuning trying to get the car to work at the suggested pressures but with the lower pressures it seems much better. It is pretty much an abandoned car anyway, I doubt Fresquito and his group will give it another chance.

cpcdem
17-05-2018, 23:41
cpcdem's 0:51.659 is probably within a few tenths of the potential with this car

Hey Blink, better don't speak big words, because sooner or later an alien will make an attempt with it, too, and he will do a lap time a second down from us, and we will be looking right and left wondering what just happened :)

blinkngone
17-05-2018, 23:57
Hey Blink, better don't speak big words, because sooner or later an alien will make an attempt with it, too, and he will do a lap time a second down from us, and we will be looking right and left wondering what just happened :)

Yeah that would be cool!:D I used my Slower Region factor of 99.1% and came up with a 0:51.472 as the potential so if I am that far off it would be nice to know.;) But seriously I just took some of the other TKDAs(G57, Vulcan) for a spin and none of them are as "twitchy" as the Radical, sure you can work it to be better but why bother when there are better(more enjoyable) cars to choose from.

Sankyo
18-05-2018, 07:22
A suggestion to test (will do myself as well tomorrow):
Try the SR8 with a clutch diff, setting something like 80 Nm preload, 65 degrees power ramp, 25 degrees coast ramp, and 4 clutches. See if that improves the rear-end stability of the car.

Also, the Caterham SP/300 uses the same slicks, so that may also be used for testing to see if it's the tyres or not.

hkraft300
18-05-2018, 08:23
I honestly think it's a bloody powerful car for its weight and grip. You can overdo it with the throttle, so be aware of it.
At cota turn 16-17-18 grand plaza complex I couldn't take it full throttle. The arse end will let go. With max downforce.
The only cure for power oversteer is your right foot (and TC), because whether you open or lock the diff it'll still skid.

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 08:46
A suggestion to test (will do myself as well tomorrow):
Try the SR8 with a clutch diff, setting something like 80 Nm preload, 65 degrees power ramp, 25 degrees coast ramp, and 4 clutches. See if that improves the rear-end stability of the car.

Also, the Caterham SP/300 uses the same slicks, so that may also be used for testing to see if it's the tyres or not.

Ok, will check the SP/300.R

cluck
18-05-2018, 09:01
A suggestion to test (will do myself as well tomorrow):
Try the SR8 with a clutch diff, setting something like 80 Nm preload, 65 degrees power ramp, 25 degrees coast ramp, and 4 clutches. See if that improves the rear-end stability of the car.

Also, the Caterham SP/300 uses the same slicks, so that may also be used for testing to see if it's the tyres or not.The Caterham is wonderfully planted. The Radical, I can't get on with right now, there's a lot of turn-in lift-off oversteer going on with the default 'loose' setup and with the diff suggestions you've mentioned. Now, part of this might simply be the way the car is designed to handle and I need to get used to it but it's certainly tricky hopping into it and just being fast. However, on cold tyres it is a different animal, a car that feels a lot more planted, allowing you to drive it with more confidence. It's slower, granted, whilst the tyres are cold and below optimal pressure, but it's far safer to drive.

You can be quick in the SR8, but it's like riding a knife-edge all the time. The SR3, to an extent, is very similar albeit doing things at lower speeds, so there is more time to react.

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 09:13
The Caterham is wonderfully planted. The Radical, I can't get on with right now, there's a lot of turn-in lift-off oversteer going on with the default 'loose' setup and with the diff suggestions you've mentioned. Now, part of this might simply be the way the car is designed to handle and I need to get used to it but it's certainly tricky hopping into it and just being fast. However, on cold tyres it is a different animal, a car that feels a lot more planted, allowing you to drive it with more confidence. It's slower, granted, whilst the tyres are cold and below optimal pressure, but it's far safer to drive.

You can be quick in the SR8, but it's like riding a knife-edge all the time. The SR3, to an extent, is very similar albeit doing things at lower speeds, so there is more time to react.

Ok, thanks Cluck. Your observations are similar, that is why some of us have gone to reducing the pressure from the 24 PSI target because as the pressure is increased the problems are exacerbated. No reason fro the car to light up the rear tires like a Funny car in the burnout box by applying a little throttle or simply using a little more wheel angle mid corner.:D

Sankyo
18-05-2018, 09:18
I honestly think it's a bloody powerful car for its weight and grip. You can overdo it with the throttle, so be aware of it.
At cota turn 16-17-18 grand plaza complex I couldn't take it full throttle. The arse end will let go. With max downforce.
The only cure for power oversteer is your right foot (and TC), because whether you open or lock the diff it'll still skid.


The Caterham is wonderfully planted. The Radical, I can't get on with right now, there's a lot of turn-in lift-off oversteer going on with the default 'loose' setup and with the diff suggestions you've mentioned. Now, part of this might simply be the way the car is designed to handle and I need to get used to it but it's certainly tricky hopping into it and just being fast. However, on cold tyres it is a different animal, a car that feels a lot more planted, allowing you to drive it with more confidence. It's slower, granted, whilst the tyres are cold and below optimal pressure, but it's far safer to drive.

You can be quick in the SR8, but it's like riding a knife-edge all the time. The SR3, to an extent, is very similar albeit doing things at lower speeds, so there is more time to react.
The two things I mentioned (high-speed power oversteer beyond a certain steering angle and hairy kerb behaviour when on the throttle) to me do not sound like something related to just the power of the car. Stomping on the throttle with little steering input does nothing w.r.t. the rear getting wild, and if I'm already on the throttle driving fast and then steering beyond a certain angle does make the rear step out feels to me not like a power thing, but a differential thing.

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 09:43
Ok, I took the SP/300.R for a spin, literally.;) I don't know, the first right hander after Copse is still pretty much as cpcdem described earlier in this thread, I can easily light up the rear tires here. I also had the same problem he described earlier about losing time trying to baby it through the last series of corners. I can't make it work with the 24 psi pressures and as Cluck described with the SR8-RX the more laps I run the worse it is for me because the pressures increase. Now personally I have always felt from the PC1 days that 80Daze was a very good driver, lets take a look at what he has done to the tire pressures to set the new WR at RBR with the SP/300.R since the 5.0 patch.
WR tire pressures.
254641
Default. Get the picture?
254642

Oh, this was my stunning lap time of 0:53.827 +0:01.087, fastest of the 5.0 runs.:D I lit up my leg lamp and placed it in the window.

Sugo tire pressures for WR.
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LSD Sugo.
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I did look at tingler's Monza WR and he was using Default tire pressures so for some they can still get the higher pressures to work.

hkraft300
18-05-2018, 10:31
... Stomping on the throttle with little steering input does nothing w.r.t. the rear getting wild, and if I'm already on the throttle driving fast and then steering beyond a certain angle does make the rear step out feels to me not like a power thing, but a differential thing.

Once the front tires are warm maybe it has the grip to stick and throw the rear out? I did try max rear downforce but it still slid so next step may be diff. What about reducing front downforce?
It's also a very rear-heavy car, like a 911. How far do you compromise the diff will depend on where you're driving it.

Sankyo
18-05-2018, 10:42
Once the front tires are warm maybe it has the grip to stick and throw the rear out? I did try max rear downforce but it still slid so next step may be diff. What about reducing front downforce?
It's also a very rear-heavy car, like a 911. How far do you compromise the diff will depend on where you're driving it.
Front downforce was at 0, so no reducing that. Didn't try rear DF, but I think one of the other guys tried that above.

It could be that the car is like this, but at least it's perceived different from pC1 (which had a completely different driveline model) and real life (but we don't know anything about the real car's set-up).

Did anyone try the car with different tyres, to see if the rear-end behaviour changes with that?

gregc
18-05-2018, 10:49
Might be worth pinging @scottkmansell on Twitter, he should know how the real car behaves as well as anyone.

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 11:21
Front downforce was at 0, so no reducing that. Didn't try rear DF, but I think one of the other guys tried that above.

It could be that the car is like this, but at least it's perceived different from pC1 (which had a completely different driveline model) and real life (but we don't know anything about the real car's set-up).

Did anyone try the car with different tyres, to see if the rear-end behaviour changes with that?

Ok with the wet tires I accidently cooked the left front tire at the second right corner even though I was behind my slick tire ghost. The all terrain tires would light up anywhere, good for drifting. I didn't try the only other tire available the Ice tire because the track Marshall wouldn't let me put them on concerned I would damage the track with the studs.
This is the best I could do with the wets, 2nd lap over 2 seconds slower, even being careful I am hurting my left front.
254645

Sankyo
18-05-2018, 11:35
But how was the car behaviour/balance? The same? Did you still get the oversteer beyond a certain steering wheel angle?

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 11:49
But how was the car behaviour/balance? The same? Did you still get the oversteer beyond a certain steering wheel angle?

I thought it was obvious from my post that is was worse, sorry. With the wets I had to tip toe just to keep the tires from melting down using the same pressures as the slicks. If I tried to push at all I couldn't make a complete lap without spinning out and destroying the tires. I had to back off just to complete laps.

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 12:16
Look, I can lap within around a second of the WR at Silverstone National and around 8 tenths of my PB using Default tire pressures by being cautious with the wheel angle and throttle. If all you want to do is run laps then the Default tire pressures are going to be usable for some people but it is still going to be difficult for a lot of others. If you want to push closer to the WR pace then everybody at this track has been using the lower tire pressures especially at the rear.
254648

Sankyo
18-05-2018, 12:32
Just as a note, to me lap times are not a useful metric to qualify the car's behaviour with, especially not a comparison with the TT #1 time. Alien drivers can apply all kinds of weird set-up tricks to get that one super lap out of the car that no sane real-life driver would even consider doing on his/her real car. I would like to discuss a possible car behaviour issue based on (simulated) physical behaviour and whether that's as expected, and what set-up tweaks are required to get the bad behaviour out. :)

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 13:11
Just as a note, to me lap times are not a useful metric to qualify the car's behaviour with, especially not a comparison with the TT #1 time. Alien drivers can apply all kinds of weird set-up tricks to get that one super lap out of the car that no sane real-life driver would even consider doing on his/her real car. I would like to discuss a possible car behaviour issue based on (simulated) physical behaviour and whether that's as expected, and what set-up tweaks are required to get the bad behaviour out. :)

What? None of us are ALIENS at this track. Maybe if Cluck would run Silverstone National you could have a good alien benchmark. Most of us have not run this car before as I tried to explain earlier. No we did not expect to be spinning out on slow speed corners and losing the rear in speed ones, this was unexpected. We have tried to mitigate the physical behavior by adjusting the tire pressures, none of us would claim to be set up experts/ Alien drivers/ TT mavens. Two of us ran the exact same set up(within 0.064), the rest varied a little but the reduced tire pressure helped us all.

I don't close my radiator. I use 10% because I have blown engines in TT. On some cars I can 20 laps at 10%.
254649
No Aliens here, cpcdem is good but I don't think he would consider himself an Alien.
254650

Mad Al
18-05-2018, 14:50
52.166 in TT at Silverstone National using a gamepad and default (stable) setup...

anyone tried pumping the tyres up, instead of letting the pressure out.. I found the higher pressure although a little slower (1/2 second) made the car much better behaved and also the reaction to running kerbs was much better... I tried it at 23.5 psi (1.62 bar).. and yes, I'm weird :)

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 15:03
52.166 in TT at Silverstone National using a gamepad and default (stable) setup...

anyone tried pumping the tyres up, instead of letting the pressure out.. I found the higher pressure although a little slower (1/2 second) made the car much better behaved and also the reaction to running kerbs was much better... I tried it at 23.5 psi (1.62 bar).. and yes, I'm weird :)

Not that I know of. Cluck has made a Default run for us at 0:51.600 so we have a benchmark from an Alien using Default pressures. So I am at 0:51.940 +0:00.340 now using lower pressures. Aliens basically just need some sort of roundish rubber devices with a little air in them and they are good.:D The non aliens at this track can't do Default, simple as that.:) Oops Al I missed your Default run, that was good too, better than any of us could manage.:cool: Cool that it helped you with the kerbs by using more pressure. So I am almost at the point where the answer is 42.:)

Mad Al
18-05-2018, 15:27
42, that bar or psi ;)

hasslemoff
18-05-2018, 18:56
Gave this car a go in tt on Silverstone national and I'm off total opposite thought to most of you. I understand why people think the car is very tail happy but when it got loose with me I turned in to fast and not smooth, also applying to much brake when not keeping the wheel straight, on exit I found the car had to much understeer could do with a bit more slip on the rear tyres for me.

Turning the wheel to fast and far will induce oversteer which is very hard to catch, smooth is your friend, also smooth with the brakes.

I had a quick go with the stock loose set up, slick tyres and it

cpcdem
18-05-2018, 19:19
I improved a bit my time, using again the completely closed (or is it completely open? - never managed to learn the terminology :)) differential. Also got my ghost to show up, with Sloskimo's help I think we figured out what was causing the problem with uploading them.

Then I tried again with default setup, out of more than ten attempts, I did not manage to complete a lap even once, was always out usually by turn 3 at most. Kudos to cluck for having no issue and being so fast with it, as I have said before, I guess that's the difference between Aliens and those of us who dream of becoming aliens someday :).

But I really find it completely undriveable in default, undriveable, not just very difficult. Maybe it's more practice needed, maybe it's also some hardware issue playing some role again...

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 20:13
Gave this car a go in tt on Silverstone national and I'm off total opposite thought to most of you. I understand why people think the car is very tail happy but when it got loose with me I turned in to fast and not smooth, also applying to much brake when not keeping the wheel straight, on exit I found the car had to much understeer could do with a bit more slip on the rear tyres for me.

Turning the wheel to fast and far will induce oversteer which is very hard to catch, smooth is your friend, also smooth with the brakes.

I had a quick go with the stock loose set up, slick tyres and it

Ok, so are you a.k.a. Allen? OOps, just saw you improved your time, congrats!

Allright Allen, I followed your suggestions about trying to be really smooth and easy with the inputs and you are correct, I was able to complete a lap better than I had before, thanks. But, for some reason on my second lap at copse although I tried to be smooth as before I was instantly loose. I can't be fast or consistent using Default Loose.
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blinkngone
18-05-2018, 20:19
I improved a bit my time, using again the completely closed (or is it completely open? - never managed to learn the terminology :)) differential. Also got my ghost to show up, with Sloskimo's help I think we figured out what was causing the problem with uploading them.

Then I tried again with default setup, out of more than ten attempts, I did not manage to complete a lap even once, was always out usually by turn 3 at most. Kudos to cluck for having no issue and being so fast with it, as I have said before, I guess that's the difference between Aliens and those of us who dream of becoming aliens someday :).

But I really find it completely undriveable in default, undriveable, not just very difficult. Maybe it's more practice needed, maybe it's also some hardware issue playing some role again...

Ok, cpcdem,, great job! The tuning is what we have to get us closer to the Aliens since we don't know how they so easily drive the setups we find impossible.:D

hasslemoff
18-05-2018, 20:28
Ok, so are you a.k.a. Allen? OOps, just saw you improved your time, congrats!

Lol, think it just took its time to upload and nope to Allen, I'll try and get another go and upload a video to see if it helps with your line an brake points around the track and with the car.

I did a run in private practice with full fuel and altered the steering rack up to 14, turned the front down force to 0 and reduced rear springs to the softest and it made it a lot steadier in turn in, not quick but a lot easier to handle.
Also tried the diff settings someone posted and it didn't make much difference for me.

cluck
18-05-2018, 20:46
Kudos to cluck for having no issue...I never said that ;)

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 21:26
Lol, think it just took its time to upload and nope to alien, I'll try and get another go and upload a video to see if it helps with your line an brake points around the track and with the car.

I did a run in private practice with full fuel and altered the steering rack up to 14, turned the front down force to 0 and reduced rear springs to the softest and it made it a lot steadier in turn in, not quick but a lot easier to handle.
Also tried the diff settings someone posted and it didn't make much difference for me.

Ok thanks.
I only counted around 50 runs total since the 5.0 patch for this car, 21 are from RBR and this little test we are doing here. A lot of the runs are 2 or 3 seconds or more off the WRs for the tracks run. TX3 Rinpoku, Cluck, yourself and Mad Al seem to be in the small club that drive Default Loose. The OP, his community group and the rest of us don't, at least not well.

Mad Al
18-05-2018, 21:28
The Mad Al's are both me... and as a quick check I ran both loose and stable with a wheel and was faster with stable by a few tenths (that's the current posted time). And the stable was way easier to manage.. (I'm getting old.. so my spring chicken reflex days are long gone ;))

The loose just feels like it's got way too much front end, to the point I never seem to be able to get the front to push on the loose setup

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 21:29
I never said that ;)

Yeah, thanks for the demo run! It goes without saying that it was easy peasy for you.;)

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 21:36
The Mad Al's are both me... and as a quick check I ran both loose and stable with a wheel and was faster with stable by a few tenths (that's the current posted time). And the stable was way easier to manage.. (I'm getting old.. so my spring chicken reflex days are long gone ;))

The loose just feels like it's got way too much front end, to the point I never seem to be able to get the front to push on the loose setup

What? I thought you couldn't have 2 identities.:D Ok, it's cool to have 2 identities a fast one and a faster one.:D

hasslemoff
18-05-2018, 21:52
Here's a video with a 51.2 with the loose setup, see if your lines are the same, brake points etc, a sub 51 will be possible.


https://youtu.be/seuzVWKy8-A

Mad Al
18-05-2018, 21:53
What? I thought you couldn't have 2 identities.:D Ok, it's cool to have 2 identities a fast one and a faster one.:D

It's a throw back to PC1... generally if you see Mad Al2 a.k.a. Allen, I'm using a gamepad.. I just happened to do it the other way around this time (I've had one of those days!)

I certainly wouldn't recommend having multiple Steam accounts.. it get's bloody confusing at times (and worse if you have more than one copy of steam on top of that for beta testing...)

cluck
18-05-2018, 21:55
Yeah, thanks for the demo run! It goes without saying that it was easy peasy for you.;)I never said it was easy peasy either ;). I'm currently investigating something, hence my previous post replying to cpcdem and this rather cryptic reply to yourself.

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 23:03
I never said it was easy peasy either ;). I'm currently investigating something, hence my previous post replying to cpcdem and this rather cryptic reply to yourself.

No problem, I always appreciate your help. Easy-peasy lemon squeesy was possibly before your time. I just used it because my wife likes it.:D There are few things easy in PCars 2 which is possibly why we have fewer people in TT, multiplayer and in the forums.
There are times when I think jesus I wish this was just a little easier but you know PC2 being more difficult has made me a better tuner and even possibly a better driver although still bad. Threads like this are helpful for some of us. If you hadn't posted such a good time I doubt cpcdem would have just come back on his own and chopped a couple of tenths off his PB, just to get ahead of you though.:D Without Al I never would have given Default another shot although I will never do a 51.2. And the group at RBR who were able to cope with the handling by dramatically lowering the tire pressures which has really helped with those of us who have problems with Default. This is kind of like the GT3 tire thread where we needed your help to show the tires were not that bad and the LSD wasn't broken. So we are in almost the same place with this thread, Default works for some and for others reducing the tire pressures can be beneficial.

blinkngone
18-05-2018, 23:08
Here's a video with a 51.2 with the loose setup, see if your lines are the same, brake points etc, a sub 51 will be possible.


https://youtu.be/seuzVWKy8-A

What, that is really cool you can do that with this car. Not me though, but I will try and do better.:o

blinkngone
19-05-2018, 00:02
Well, not sure why but Cluck just improved his time, WR again. No improvement for me though, still suck at Default Loose.

cluck
19-05-2018, 00:06
Well, not sure why but Cluck just improved his time, WR again. No improvement for me though, still suck at Default Loose.Because I've still been testing (even whilst slightly drunk) :) . Though I'm calling it a night now.

blinkngone
19-05-2018, 02:02
Because I've still been testing (even whilst slightly drunk) :) . Though I'm calling it a night now.

Well that could be part of my problem, I can't drink. I'll add that to my excuse bag although it is getting kinda heavy now.:D

Mad Al
19-05-2018, 11:44
Here's a video with a 51.2 with the loose setup, see if your lines are the same, brake points etc, a sub 51 will be possible.


https://youtu.be/seuzVWKy8-A

Are you on PC, or are you on PS4...?

cluck
19-05-2018, 11:49
Are you on PC, or are you on PS4...?Must be PS4 or XBOX as that time isn't the WR on PC.

hasslemoff
19-05-2018, 13:13
Are you on PC, or are you on PS4...?

PS4.

cluck
19-05-2018, 13:41
Despite having just set a 51.03 lap on default (with a high 50s lap a definite possibility), it wasn't much fun. You have to drive 'around' the way the car currently behaves in default setup. It is, to a certain extent, a little like the Ford Falcon FG, a car that requires you to scrub off a lot of speed, carefully feather the car through a corner, before mashing the loud pedal and launching yourself off towards the next corner. The thing is, I'm not convinced that a small, lightweight, track prototype-style car should behave like that. I would expect it to have a heck of a lot more grip (but note the use of 'expect', I genuinely have no idea how these cars are supposed to behave).

hasslemoff
19-05-2018, 15:52
Despite having just set a 51.03 lap on default (with a high 50s lap a definite possibility), it wasn't much fun. You have to drive 'around' the way the car currently behaves in default setup. It is, to a certain extent, a little like the Ford Falcon FG, a car that requires you to scrub off a lot of speed, carefully feather the car through a corner, before mashing the loud pedal and launching yourself off towards the next corner. The thing is, I'm not convinced that a small, lightweight, track prototype-style car should behave like that. I would expect it to have a heck of a lot more grip (but note the use of 'expect', I genuinely have no idea how these cars are supposed to behave).

I'm off opposite thought in the car handles as I would expect, a lightweight powerful MR car needs to be treat carefully and will punish you for little mistakes which you can get away with in other cars. Like you have I not drove one, i've drove a areil atom which is a similar car in layout and it does not feel much different in the way the radical reacts with to much input.
By no way am I saying im right, just my opinion.
I do believe though that it should be easier to catch the rear in slower speeds but I feel that with a lot of cars in pc2.

No wonder the makers of car games get so much grief with such difference of opinions with the handling of cars ;).

Video of someone trying the radical for the first time.

https://youtu.be/lSx3GZzJ6MY

blinkngone
19-05-2018, 16:48
I'm off opposite thought in the car handles as I would expect, a lightweight powerful MR car needs to be treat carefully and will punish you for little mistakes which you can get away with in other cars. Like you have I not drove one, i've drove a areil atom which is a similar car in layout and it does not feel much different in the way the radical reacts with to much input.
By no way am I saying im right, just my opinion.
I do believe though that it should be easier to catch the rear in slower speeds but I feel that with a lot of cars in pc2.

No wonder the makers of car games get so much grief with such difference of opinions with the handling of cars ;).

Video of someone trying the radical for the first time.

https://youtu.be/lSx3GZzJ6MY

Well. I can't count how many times I've spun into the grass at Sil Nat when starting on Default Loose.;) Restart/spin, restart/spin crap, stand on brake. Doesn't happen with low tire pressure on the rears though.

blinkngone
19-05-2018, 16:53
Despite having just set a 51.03 lap on default (with a high 50s lap a definite possibility), it wasn't much fun. You have to drive 'around' the way the car currently behaves in default setup. It is, to a certain extent, a little like the Ford Falcon FG, a car that requires you to scrub off a lot of speed, carefully feather the car through a corner, before mashing the loud pedal and launching yourself off towards the next corner. The thing is, I'm not convinced that a small, lightweight, track prototype-style car should behave like that. I would expect it to have a heck of a lot more grip (but note the use of 'expect', I genuinely have no idea how these cars are supposed to behave).

I have tried driving Default Loose, I can, not as fast as you of course. I just don't like it at all. I feel like I'm trying to drive with a hand grenade with the pin pulled under the accelerator pedal just waiting for the slightest slip to dislodge itself and blow me to bits.

cpcdem
20-05-2018, 11:06
Despite having just set a 51.03 lap on default (with a high 50s lap a definite possibility), it wasn't much fun. You have to drive 'around' the way the car currently behaves in default setup. It is, to a certain extent, a little like the Ford Falcon FG, a car that requires you to scrub off a lot of speed, carefully feather the car through a corner, before mashing the loud pedal and launching yourself off towards looked at the next corner. The thing is, I'm not convinced that a small, lightweight, track prototype-style car should behave like that. I would expect it to have a heck of a lot more grip (but note the use of 'expect', I genuinely have no idea how these cars are supposed to behave).

OK, thanks for your info. So, do we agree that there's a very high probability that the car does not handle the way it is supposed/intended to, so it at least needs to be looked closely at by the devs?

Actually for me I have that feeling for more cars and for some of them especially after patch 5. And reading your analysis, I am still not confident I am getting the same car handling that you guys have, I mean in the GT3s this was too obvious, how the cars' handling changed when I used -pthreads 4, but I do not know if I am still running the physics at full rate now or not, would be nice if we had a way to check that. In case I'm still indeed running at lower physics rate, I'd be happy to lower my gfx etc settings, as I very much prefer to run the sim as intended, than having better gfx, if that's what's happening indeed.

Anyway, I think I also agree with the person who posted that the road Paganis are extremely twitchy, too. I tried them also in AC and PC1 and they were very understeery there, which I don't think is right either, but in PC2 it's the other extreme, unless I use TC values around 0.02-0.03. I do like them and I can manage driving them well, I just feel they possibly are not handling as intended. Somebody else recently posted about the AM GT4, now I admit after patch 5 I have not used GT3/GT4/GTE almost at all, so I am very rusty with them, but also this car felt very tail happy in a short test I gave it, is it how GT4s are supposed to be?

Not pretending I have any real experience about what real race cars should feel like, but I think SMS need to review some of them and make sure that they are working as they intend them to. Especially after patch 5 and also especially in low/medium power machines.

Cholton82
20-05-2018, 12:20
If I get chance later I will have a bash at it and see how it feels , I do have experience in a radical as I’ve driven one before at Donington . It was an SR3 though I believe 1500cc and it was on slicks , from memory this car was on rails once the tyres had some heat in them but you still had to watch the throttle especially at coppice.

macattack0922
20-05-2018, 13:18
I have tried driving Default Loose, I can, not as fast as you of course. I just don't like it at all. I feel like I'm trying to drive with a hand grenade with the pin pulled under the accelerator pedal just waiting for the slightest slip to dislodge itself and blow me to bits.

Blinkn; I got an error saying you have too many private messages for me to respond. I'll give the radical a go tonight and see what it's like on console.

Cholton82
20-05-2018, 14:16
Ok , Just sat in my rig now as I type . Firstly the SR3 RS which is close to the SR3 I have driven I’ve just been lapping at Donington which is where I drove the Radical for real .
Conditions about the same and just taking it steady as if I was actually there , 4 laps just bringing the temps up and then put in some quick laps.

It feels remarkably similar but more planted at the rear if anything as I could get on the throttle very early out of coppice , into old hairpin and very similar speeds to real life around 90 -95mph and I’m pretty sure lapping very similar times which is around 1:09 / 1:10 , not the quickest but comfortable. I’d say it felt like a very good representation.

The SR8 wow I’d love to have a go in real life , much the same experience with coppice being the only place I had to watch the throttle but other than that I think it felt good.

Both on loose setup , Brake pressure 90 and slicks. Weather 01/06/18 , 13:00 hrs , Summer , Medium cloud around 25 degrees c.
Authentic assists .

Just to add that if I can find my go pro footage I will see if I can do an overlay of my real experience vs sim experience , I think the lines the braking points and speeds will be quite similar.

cpcdem
20-05-2018, 14:25
OK, thanks for your feedback! In my case it is still that if I put more than 10% throttle during a turn, I get an almost instant spin (I mean without using setup tricks to change that behavior). Probably just driver quality I guess. Btw, "authentic assists" means "no assists" for this car, right?

Cholton82
20-05-2018, 14:44
If you get chance try Donington in private testing which is what I chose and use the session settings I did for a direct comparison , I did change tyres from automatic by weather to slicks , Brake pressure at 90 everything else default loose.

I don’t think it’s driver quality as I could literally mash the throttle at most points around the track trying to provoke it and it stuck well.
I think this could be some other issue maybe deeper rooted . I guess authentic means none on this car , I always leave authentic on

blinkngone
20-05-2018, 14:49
Blinkn; I got an error saying you have too many private messages for me to respond. I'll give the radical a go tonight and see what it's like on console.

Sorry mac, deleted everything from 3 weeks ago to last week so hopefully I am good now.

blinkngone
20-05-2018, 15:09
Well jes0369 joined in on Default and ran a 0:51.901 +0:00.868. He is fairly new and mostly has been running since March 26 and has the 2nd quickest Default time to Cluck. I am starting to lean toward what cpcdem is thinking on PC, that we all have different hardware and maybe some of us aren't getting the same experiences because of this. I know I don't meet minimum specs due to my 6 GB of ram, I have dumbed everything down so it now looks like crap just so I can play but I still crash/lockup a lot, cpcdem has been using the p threads just to get the handling a little better. I was wondering if the console players were having an issue but Al ran the spectacular lap on PS4 so I asked mac to try on XBOX and he is usually a faster than us in GT3s so I am still not sure. I'll try Donington as Cholton suggests but I am typically bad there even with a decent(in my opinion) car.

Edit, here I am at you probably know where, just a thought, I do appear to have more grip at the start, as Cholton suggested, over Sil Nat. It's mostly me here, my spongy brake pedal is causing the most issues.
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FYI the current best Default run is a 1:28.920 +0:06.761.

cpcdem
20-05-2018, 15:28
If you get chance try Donington in private testing which is what I chose and use the session settings I did for a direct comparison , I did change tyres from automatic by weather to slicks , Brake pressure at 90 everything else default loose.

I don’t think it’s driver quality as I could literally mash the throttle at most points around the track trying to provoke it and it stuck well.
I think this could be some other issue maybe deeper rooted . I guess authentic means none on this car , I always leave authentic on

I will try, thanks, but that's sounds completely different to what I could do so far with the throttle! :)
Just to make sure we're saying the same thing, because you mentioned also the SR3 earlier (with which I can also use the throttle! :)), it's also the SR8 that you can mash the throttle with, right?

Cholton82
20-05-2018, 15:29
Well jes0369 joined in on Default and ran a 0:51.901 +0:00.868. He is fairly new and mostly has been running since March 26 and has the 2nd quickest Default time to Cluck. I am starting to lean toward what cpcdem is thinking on PC, that we all have different hardware and maybe some of us aren't getting the same experiences because of this. I know I don't meet minimum specs due to my 6 GB of ram, I have dumbed everything down so it now looks like crap just so I can play but I still crash/lockup a lot, cpcdem has been using the p threads just to get the handling a little better. I was wondering if the console players were having an issue but Al ran the spectacular lap on PS4 so I asked mac to try on XBOX and he is usually a faster than us in GT3s so I am still not sure. I'll try Donington as Cholton suggests but I am typically bad there even with a decent(in my opinion) car.

I reckon the hardware thing is right , I just drove it like I was on a track day and it felt really good , well balanced with a planted rear and a pointy nose just like it should be .

Cholton82
20-05-2018, 17:40
I will try, thanks, but that's sounds completely different to what I could do so far with the throttle! :)
Just to make sure we're saying the same thing, because you mentioned also the SR3 earlier (with which I can also use the throttle! :)), it's also the SR8 that you can mash the throttle with, right?

Sorry I missed that question , Yes the SR8 was no problem at all , only place was coppice where I had to be initially careful but then could floor it coming out of the corner . I would of expected it to be a little livelier with all that power .

cpcdem
20-05-2018, 20:47
If you get chance try Donington in private testing which is what I chose and use the session settings I did for a direct comparison , I did change tyres from automatic by weather to slicks , Brake pressure at 90 everything else default loose.

I don’t think it’s driver quality as I could literally mash the throttle at most points around the track trying to provoke it and it stuck well.
I think this could be some other issue maybe deeper rooted . I guess authentic means none on this car , I always leave authentic on

Holy ***, *** and ***!!! In practice mode, just coming out of the pits, with completely cold tires, the car feels amazing! As you say, I can mash the throttle, I can get it a little sideways and countersteer to keep it under control, an absolute pleasure to drive, it's one of the best cars in the game!!!

That's a quick knee jerk response after just 30 seconds...now what on earth makes such a big difference it time trial? The temps that are higher, the pressures? Will try to find out and report back...Thanks for your valuable input!

cpcdem
20-05-2018, 21:24
The SR8 wow I’d love to have a go in real life , much the same experience with coppice being the only place I had to watch the throttle but other than that I think it felt good.


Yeah, exactly what I am seeing as well, the car is a handful to drive in Donington, only corner that needs to be very careful at is Coppice. And then I go back to Silverstone National, again practice, same settings as in Donigton and now all corners become Coppice's :). Could you please give it a try in Silverstone National as well, when you have some time, to see if you also notice the difference? Maybe it's the track surface that makes the difference...

Edit: OK, under time trial conditions, with warm tyres and different conditions, also Donington is not feeling as nice as it feels in practice mode. But it is still possible to drive (for me) with default setup, it's not like the Silverstone National situation.

Cholton82
21-05-2018, 07:17
Yeah, exactly what I am seeing as well, the car is a handful to drive in Donington, only corner that needs to be very careful at is Coppice. And then I go back to Silverstone National, again practice, same settings as in Donigton and now all corners become Coppice's :). Could you please give it a try in Silverstone National as well, when you have some time, to see if you also notice the difference? Maybe it's the track surface that makes the difference...

Edit: OK, under time trial conditions, with warm tyres and different conditions, also Donington is not feeling as nice as it feels in practice mode. But it is still possible to drive (for me) with default setup, it's not like the Silverstone National situation.

If I get chance later this evening I will have a go on Silvestone National , I will try both private testing and time trial and see how it differs.
What hot tyre pressures does it start you with in time trial mode maybe they are too high at default .
It’s funny because it would be easy to read a thread like this , try it out like I did and then just dismiss it as a problem with your driving style or skill level when in actual fact it’s something else entirely that probably needs the devs attention .
I’m glad you managed to get a good feeling with it around Donny so you know it’s not you .

cpcdem
21-05-2018, 07:32
If I get chance later this evening I will have a go on Silvestone National , I will try both private testing and time trial and see how it differs.
What hot tyre pressures does it start you with in time trial mode maybe they are too high at default .
It’s funny because it would be easy to read a thread like this , try it out like I did and then just dismiss it as a problem with your driving style or skill level when in actual fact it’s something else entirely that probably needs the devs attention .
I’m glad you managed to get a good feeling with it around Donny so you know it’s not you .

Pressures in TT are 1.45-1.50/1.40-1.45 psi front/rear with around 90C tire temps.
Btw, in practice, at first I accidentally drove the track in Silverstone National backwards and it felt relatively ok! But then when I drove normally, it was too hard again.
Anyway, I agree, I also think it needs the devs attention, they have the tools to properly debug it, while we are going by trial and error. But it was nice to see that this car potentially can be a pleasure to drive, thanks for stepping in!

Cholton82
21-05-2018, 07:43
Pressures in TT are 1.45-1.50/1.40-1.45 psi front/rear with around 90C tire temps.
Btw, in practice, at first I accidentally drove the track in Silverstone National backwards and it felt relatively ok! But then when I drove normally, it was too hard again.
Anyway, I agree, I also think it needs the devs attention, they have the tools to properly debug it, while we are going by trial and error. But it was nice to see that this car potentially can be a pleasure to drive, thanks for stepping in!

I have had two bad experiences in career with transitioning weather going from dry to wet , This was Silverstone and Daytona both in career mode in the WSCC and GEC where it felt like ice and nothing like wet weather driving does in other races , Could this be a live track issue ? Hopefully they are looking into it.

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 09:01
Ok, mac has made multiple runs on XBOX1 X for us. His best time is 51.1 (Cluck's 0:20.840 sector 3 time is good, mac has a problem with this sector. This sector is where cpcdem has problems as well, .3 of the .424 difference to Cluck is here) and mac doesn't think the car is bugged, just difficult on Default Loose. On Stable he is in the high 50.8's and he feels this is a much better choice for this car at this track.

Ok, I tried Stable and it was easier for me but I refused to try and push it because of my previous experience with the higher tire pressures. I believe that the car is mostly ok, just me and my hardware limits are the issues here. My broken brake pedal is a lot of the problem with this car, where with some other cars I could manage to get by with this one I can't sense locking up at all. I'll push on the brake just a slight bit more and bump(it's what I feel) locked up. And just like in the last F1 race I am back there Grojeaning +1.7 off the pace of Cluck(Hamilton).:D
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cluck
21-05-2018, 10:55
Can you do me a favour, cpcdem and blinkngone, can you try the car with significantly higher tyre pressures, like over 2-bar (set the cold pressures to 1.7-bar) . I just gave it a whirl and although I was slower (mostly because I didn't put my Rift on), the car was significantly more stable. I only tried those because I had a look at Radical's engineer handbook and that recommends 2.2-bar hot pressure for the OEM Dunlop tyre.

hkraft300
21-05-2018, 10:57
... I had a look at Radical's engineer handbook and that recommends 2.2-bar hot pressure for the OEM Dunlop tyre.

Casey made a general recommendation for low pressures on these ultra lights but a more Radical-specific approach might be the way to go.
Good thinking, 99.

cluck
21-05-2018, 11:10
Casey made a general recommendation for low pressures on these ultra lights but a more Radical-specific approach might be the way to go.
Good thinking, 99.Of course, we may well not be running the same compound as the OEM Dunlop tyre and the manual appears to be from 2012 but the car was far less twitchy (especially over kerbs) and had less pronounced lazy slide in the very brief (and I do mean VERY!) test I just did. I didn't monitor tyre temps, I didn't check tyre wear, I wasn't interested in that, I just wanted to see how the tyre behaved at far higher pressures than we would maybe expect to use.

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 12:04
Can you do me a favour, cpcdem and blinkngone, can you try the car with significantly higher tyre pressures, like over 2-bar (set the cold pressures to 1.7-bar) . I just gave it a whirl and although I was slower (mostly because I didn't put my Rift on), the car was significantly more stable. I only tried those because I had a look at Radical's engineer handbook and that recommends 2.2-bar hot pressure for the OEM Dunlop tyre.

Ok Cluck, I ran the pressures up to 24 front and rear, with Default Stable( I was previously about 1 tenth quicker on Loose but Loose is uncomfortable for me) I had my best results(although still poor but my bad) so far at using the rest of the Default with no changes. You were right, car is much more stable over kerbs(I believe one of Al's personalities had suggested this earlier). Believe it or not I could slide it(your drift mode) which for me was a big change.

I am ahead of my PB after copse going into the 2nd right.
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Going into Sector 3 I am almost even with my ghost but then I blow it.
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Pressures I used.
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Default.
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cluck
21-05-2018, 12:21
Try higher still. As I said, Radical's handbook recommends 2.2-bar, which is ~32psi for hot pressure, with cold pressures of 25psi front and 23psi rear - and try it on loose, changing nothing else in the setup. I'm just curious to see if loose is then comfortable for you to drive. I'm not saying these numbers are correct or are applicable to the tyres we have in-game but they are from Radical's handbook and seem, at first glance, to make the car more manageable, with nothing else changed :)

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 12:29
Ok, so I increased the tire pressures again. Better as you expected. I am at 1.93 Bar after a couple of laps. I've overworked my right hand/arm so I will continue testing this evening. Thanks for your suggestions as always.
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cpcdem
21-05-2018, 12:40
Can you do me a favour, cpcdem and blinkngone, can you try the car with significantly higher tyre pressures, like over 2-bar (set the cold pressures to 1.7-bar) . I just gave it a whirl and although I was slower (mostly because I didn't put my Rift on), the car was significantly more stable. I only tried those because I had a look at Radical's engineer handbook and that recommends 2.2-bar hot pressure for the OEM Dunlop tyre.

Yeah, I used 1.7 cold as you suggested, which ended up as around 2.1 warm and the car is indeed significantly more stable. I was not fast, but it was much easier to keep the car under control in the slow corners, while also applying throttle. I was slower than in my custom setup run, but I think that's because the 90 degrees ramp angle I had used in my custom setup was allowing me to go even faster on throttle and apply more of it.

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 12:48
Yeah, I used 1.7 cold as you suggested, which ended up as around 2.1 warm and the car is indeed significantly more stable. I was not fast, but it was much easier to keep the car under control in the slow corners, while also applying throttle. I was slower than in my custom setup run, but I think that's because the 90 degrees ramp angle I had used in my custom setup was allowing me to go even faster on throttle and apply more of it.

Cool cpcdem. I briefly tried the high pressures and I was stable but slow so I backed off and started working my way up in increments. I think closer to 2.0 Bar is going to be my limit between better stable handling and speed.

Mad Al
21-05-2018, 14:20
52.166 in TT at Silverstone National using a gamepad and default (stable) setup...

anyone tried pumping the tyres up, instead of letting the pressure out.. I found the higher pressure although a little slower (1/2 second) made the car much better behaved and also the reaction to running kerbs was much better... I tried it at 23.5 psi (1.62 bar).. and yes, I'm weird :)


Can you do me a favour, cpcdem and blinkngone, can you try the car with significantly higher tyre pressures, like over 2-bar (set the cold pressures to 1.7-bar) . I just gave it a whirl and although I was slower (mostly because I didn't put my Rift on), the car was significantly more stable. I only tried those because I had a look at Radical's engineer handbook and that recommends 2.2-bar hot pressure for the OEM Dunlop tyre.

I'm getting a feeling of deja vue… ;)

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 14:40
I'm getting a feeling of deja vue… ;)

52.166 in TT at Silverstone National using a gamepad and default (stable) setup...

anyone tried pumping the tyres up, instead of letting the pressure out.. I found the higher pressure although a little slower (1/2 second) made the car much better behaved and also the reaction to running kerbs was much better... I tried it at 23.5 psi (1.62 bar).. and yes, I'm weird

;)

cluck
21-05-2018, 14:56
I'm getting a feeling of deja vue… ;)I know you'd suggested higher pressures but I read yours as 'hot' rather than cold :o . Whoops, sorry Al.

Mad Al
21-05-2018, 15:24
I know you'd suggested higher pressures but I read yours as 'hot' rather than cold :o . Whoops, sorry Al.

No problem, I probably should have mentioned that was cold pressure in my original post, or mentioned it was getting around 30psi hot..


I should probably also mention the times I set in TT, all I did was go to 0 on front aero on the loose setup.

macattack0922
21-05-2018, 17:39
I found the most comfortable setting was default stable with a 54 brake bias. Lowering the rear tire pressures on the loose setting helped stabilize the car as well. I think the setup is just really loose.

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 18:05
Ok, I am kind of just tired of Sil Nat. I took the same setup I ran at this god forsaken track and went over to Silverstone International. It was like a different car. I could actually drive around on the track. I only made the out lap but it was easier, sorry I can't tell how slow I was because nobody runs there so I am probably way off pace but still it was so much easier than any slow lap I have at National.
Pressures I ran. Stable.
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cpcdem
21-05-2018, 18:17
Ok, I am kind of just tired of Sil Nat. I took the same setup I ran at this god forsaken track and went over to Silverstone International. It was like a different car. I could actually drive around on the track. I only made the out lap but it was easier, sorry I can't tell how slow I was because nobody runs there so I am probably way off pace but still it was so much easier than any slow lap I have at National.
Pressures I ran. Stable.


Yeah, I also thing something strange is going on. I once went accidentally backwards in National and it was feeling fine with default. Forwards it was bad...

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 18:19
So, then I took the same setup over to Nurburgring Mullenbach, again it's like a different car to Sil Nat. Anyway no one runs here either.
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blinkngone
21-05-2018, 18:22
Yeah, I also thing something strange is going on. I once went accidentally backwards in National and it was feeling fine with default. Forwards it was bad...

What? I thought if you tried reverse they disqualified you almost instantly. Any way go ahead and run International and see what you think.

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 18:28
I found the most comfortable setting was default stable with a 54 brake bias. Lowering the rear tire pressures on the loose setting helped stabilize the car as well. I think the setup is just really loose.

Yeah mac you are already really fast though. Reducing the rear tire pressures is what the slowsky's were trying a few days ago.:D The higher pressures give better stability on the kerbs for me.

blinkngone
21-05-2018, 18:40
Increased the tire pressures at the Tri-Oval.
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Sankyo
22-05-2018, 11:13
Did anyone give this suggestion I posted earlier a try?

Try the SR8 with a clutch diff, setting something like 80 Nm preload, 65 degrees power ramp, 25 degrees coast ramp, and 4 clutches. See if that improves the rear-end stability of the car.

cpcdem
22-05-2018, 13:40
Did anyone give this suggestion I posted earlier a try?

Try the SR8 with a clutch diff, setting something like 80 Nm preload, 65 degrees power ramp, 25 degrees coast ramp, and 4 clutches. See if that improves the rear-end stability of the car.

Not sure if you had seen it in my post, but this is exactly what I had done to improve it for me. Actually increased the power ramp even more, to 90 degrees.

But then realized it seems to also be track specific, in Donnington I could drive the car also without those diff modifications!

Sankyo
22-05-2018, 13:43
Not sure if you had seen it in my post, but this is exactly what I had done to improve it for me. Actually increased the power ramp even more, to 90 degrees.

But then realized it seems to also be track specific, in Donnington I could drive the car also without those diff modifications!

I must have read over it, only remembering the excitement about the increased tyre pressures improving kerb behaviour :)

cpcdem
22-05-2018, 14:45
I must have read over it, only remembering the excitement about the increased tyre pressures improving kerb behaviour :)

Nah, that excitement was from blinkngone! For me it's the same behavior also without kerbs :)

Mine "fix" was this one:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?63161-Radical-SR8-RX-tyres&p=1509961&viewfull=1#post1509961

blinkngone
22-05-2018, 15:47
Nah, that excitement was from blinkngone! For me it's the same behavior also without kerbs :)

Mine "fix" was this one:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?63161-Radical-SR8-RX-tyres&p=1509961&viewfull=1#post1509961

Yeah, my "excitement" was only in being able to drive the setup at Default with the exception of the tire pressures. If anyone thinks I am excited about being slower they don't know me.:D That said it kind of tells you just what a turn off this car has been for most people including the OP. The fact that I can slowly drive around a few tracks setting the WRs shows the lack of interest.

Sankyo
23-05-2018, 08:03
If you guys could test more tracks, it would be interesting to see whether it's only Silverstone bringing out the worst of the SR8. Also the reverse driving observation on Silverstone is interesting and could use more testing, because it makes no sense at all :)

EDIT Although from a layout point of view the latter makes sense, as driving a corner in reverse reverses the braking and acceleration zones, completely changing the corner.

morpwr
23-05-2018, 10:59
Yeah, my "excitement" was only in being able to drive the setup at Default with the exception of the tire pressures. If anyone thinks I am excited about being slower they don't know me.:D That said it kind of tells you just what a turn off this car has been for most people including the OP. The fact that I can slowly drive around a few tracks setting the WRs shows the lack of interest.

Ive been sort of following these tire posts so I decided to try the sr8 at Daytona to see how it was. How the hell did you run that fast on a default setup? I was 2 seconds off no matter what I did and had to use every trick I could think of to get the time I did. No toe,closed ducts,closed radiator,changed gear,less fuel. I even tried running high to keep the speed up on the out lap so the speed was higher on the first lap and that time was the best I could do.

blinkngone
23-05-2018, 11:22
Ive been sort of following these tire posts so I decided to try the sr8 at Daytona to see how it was. How the hell did you run that fast on a default setup? I was 2 seconds off no matter what I did and had to use every trick I could think of to get the time I did. No toe,closed ducts,closed radiator,changed gear,less fuel. I even tried running high to keep the speed up on the out lap so the speed was higher on the first lap and that time was the best I could do.

Sorry morpower, I don't run Default at the Tri-Oval. I was only testing the Higher pressure tires Cluck and Al suggested and they were an improvement on the Oval as well. Your time of 0:49.041 +0:00.021 is good. I don't think I have the setup worked out yet.
What set up did you end up running?

EDIT: Ok, changed things around a little, 0:48.879.
If you get a chance try Silverstone International.

morpwr
23-05-2018, 11:39
Sorry morpower, I don't run Default at the Tri-Oval. I was only testing the Higher pressure tires Cluck and Al suggested and they were an improvement on the Oval as well. Your time of 0:49.041 +0:00.021 is good. I don't think I have the setup worked out yet.
What set up did you end up running?

Basically just changed the gears one for more top speed other then that just what I said before. I played around with the rear height and ride a height a little but it didn't seem to make much difference. I sort of like this car. I tried it at Monaco last night and although my first lap was horrendous once I settled into the car it wasn't bad. A little touchy on the brakes and id definitely prefer it a little more planted but its not bad. I did turn off the other diff though. I haven't found one car that had 2 diffs turned on that felt right yet.

morpwr
23-05-2018, 11:49
Sorry morpower, I don't run Default at the Tri-Oval. I was only testing the Higher pressure tires Cluck and Al suggested and they were an improvement on the Oval as well. Your time of 0:49.041 +0:00.021 is good. I don't think I have the setup worked out yet.
What set up did you end up running?

EDIT: Ok, changed things around a little, 0:48.879.
If you get a chance try Silverstone International.

I knew there was a 48 in there.:) Nice job. Not sure how you found that much more though.lol

blinkngone
23-05-2018, 12:02
I knew there was a 48 in there.:) Nice job. Not sure how you found that much more though.lol

Hey, 0:48.621. Give my setup a try, you could probably adjust it for more.

morpwr
23-05-2018, 12:08
Hey, 0:48.621. Give my setup a try, you could probably adjust it for more.

How do I try your setup?

blinkngone
23-05-2018, 12:29
How do I try your setup?

In TT just +add/load my Ghost, click on the light blue/gear wrench to the right, save my setup.
254884
254885

morpwr
23-05-2018, 12:38
Ill try that tonight when i get home.

cpcdem
23-05-2018, 15:39
If you guys could test more tracks, it would be interesting to see whether it's only Silverstone bringing out the worst of the SR8. Also the reverse driving observation on Silverstone is interesting and could use more testing, because it makes no sense at all :)

EDIT Although from a layout point of view the latter makes sense, as driving a corner in reverse reverses the braking and acceleration zones, completely changing the corner.

I think it's a mentality thing. At least both I and blink do know this track (Silverstone National) extremely well, and can usually go fast on it even with a car that we never drove before, like the radical in this case. It's basically only 3-4 corners and in order to do a good lap time, you have to push to the limit in all of them, that's what we do and then it becomes very apparent how unstable the car is on the limit, on our machines at least.

In other tracks, I think we do not push as much. In Donington, I did say that I felt the car much more controllable, but then again, looking at my lap times, mine (albeit in Default) were a whole 2 seconds down than the best times for this combo...I assume that if I practiced more and gained more confidence to push more, I would again see the same issues also there, when trying to go faster.

blinkngone
23-05-2018, 18:16
Yeah, with the high pressure car is less oversteery on/off throttle but I am slower. I have a difficult time staying within 2 Clucks( A Cluck is the WR, 1 Cluck is 1% slower and 2 Clucks is 2% and so on) of the WRs. Cluck ran Brands Indy on Default loose and I made a high pressure run at 0:43.756 +0:01.081 so over 2 Clucks off pace, but I also don't run this track well with any car.;)
On Silverstone International I have the WR because normal people won't run this track with this car so I take my WR of 1:04.339, Cluck it and I believe that the WR time should be around 1:02.252 or better.

The best 5.0 patch Default run at Bathurst is a 2:05.600 +0:03.845, so that's about 2 Cs off. Mad Al's personalities are slightly under and over 1 C at Silverstone National.

Cluck I'm just trying to have fun.:D Because running this car isn't any for me and I don't want to gnaw off my arm.:D

GrimeyDog
23-05-2018, 21:43
I just tested the radical SR8-RX on My fav track Watkins Short to see what all the fuss is about...Its a crazy Car to drive not as much Grip as i thought it would have.
i got a easy WR 1:04.877 with it using default Loose --> Hard tires and all ...Its Not many times on that track with that car... I'm Pretty sure that i can get it to a 1:03.xxx with more time /practice in the car... but Hey a WR is a WR:o

I'm sure there is more time to be gained because I'm Not familiar with the car at all and the steering wheel is IMO on the Wrong Side:p LOL.

I like to test on Watkins Short because its a fast paced track with Good Road Feel and a good Mix of Turns that are simple but yet hard to take at High speed like the 1st section with the right into the up Hill off camber Left it can be a thorn in your side no matter what the car if you don't get it right. .. also the Bus Stop the chicane that Leads into the Sweeper Right can be a Lap killer too!!!

Last Time i posted about a time in the Ford MkIV 1967 Cluck beat it within 24hrs and i Had to put in some effort to get it back...Hmmm... Lets see what happens this time:p

blinkngone
23-05-2018, 22:51
I just tested the radical SR8-RX on My fav track Watkins Short to see what all the fuss is about...Its a crazy Car to drive not as much Grip as i thought it would have.
i got a easy WR 1:04.877 with it using default Loose --> Hard tires and all ...Its Not many times on that track with that car... I'm Pretty sure that i can get it to a 1:03.xxx with more time /practice in the car... but Hey a WR is a WR:o

I'm sure there is more time to be gained because I'm Not familiar with the car at all and the steering wheel is IMO on the Wrong Side:p LOL.

I like to test on Watkins Short because its a fast paced track with Good Road Feel and a good Mix of Turns that are simple but yet hard to take High speeds like the 1st section with the right into the up Hill off camber Left can be a thorn in your side no matter what the car if you don't get it right. .. The Bus Stop the chicane that Leads into the Sweeper Right can be a Lap killer too!!!

Last Time i posted about a Time in the Ford MkIV 1967 Cluck beat it within 24hrs and i Had to put in a some effort to get it back...Hmmm... Lets see what happens this time:p

Cool! Go ahead and run Silverstone National with the rest of us.:D

GrimeyDog
23-05-2018, 23:02
Cool! Go ahead and run Silverstone National with the rest of us.:D

I haven't Run that track but a handfull of times but i will give it a GO tomorrow when i get in from work... Im at My Sons High School concert and probably wont make it home in time tonight to put in any laps before bed time ---> 4am wake up for Me for work.

blinkngone
24-05-2018, 00:23
I haven't Run that track but a handfull of times but i will give it a GO tomorrow when i get in from work... Im at My Sons High School concert and probably wont make it home in time tonight to put in any laps before bed time ---> 4am wake up for Me for work.

No problem, not a rush, just curious what you feel about it.

morpwr
24-05-2018, 02:07
Cool! Go ahead and run Silverstone National with the rest of us.:D

Well I ran it tonight. I just cant beat you. lol Cluck is just insane if he can do that with a default setup. Im pretty sure with a little more tweaking and practice I could knock off another .5 but his time is crazy fast especially default setup. I don't know what it feels like for you guys but the default pressures are nice and grippy. Car actually felt pretty good. Obviously I could play with them and improve it but by no means was it bad. I didn't change much to get the time I did. Really the biggest issue I had was getting the diff better. That was were you where beating me every corner. You were just a little faster off every one until I adjusted the diff but other then that our lines are pretty much identical.There is definitely more left if I spend more time with it.

blinkngone
24-05-2018, 02:34
Well I ran it tonight. I just cant beat you. lol Cluck is just insane if he can do that with a default setup. Im pretty sure with a little more tweaking and practice I could knock off another .5 but his time is crazy fast especially default setup. I don't know what it feels like for you guys but the default pressures are nice and grippy. Car actually felt pretty good. Obviously I could play with them and improve it but by no means was it bad. I didn't change much to get the time I did. Really the biggest issue I had was getting the diff better. That was were you where beating me every corner. You were just a little faster off every one until I adjusted the diff but other then that our lines are pretty much identical.There is definitely more left if I spend more time with it.

Hey, thanks morpwr. It looks as though you have a nice computer setup. The problem cpcdem and I have is that on Default Loose the car spins out too easily. We had to lower the tire pressures just to complete a lap. My computer doesn't meet the minimum specs for the game and cpcdem has made all the adjustments he can think of to his so we were kind of leaning toward that the combination of the hardware specs and this particular track were causing the issues with Default Loose we had. I ran my time with that combination LSD you don't care for.;)

morpwr
24-05-2018, 10:54
Hey, thanks morpwr. It looks as though you have a nice computer setup. The problem cpcdem and I have is that on Default Loose the car spins out too easily. We had to lower the tire pressures just to complete a lap. My computer doesn't meet the minimum specs for the game and cpcdem has made all the adjustments he can think of to his so we were kind of leaning toward that the combination of the hardware specs and this particular track were causing the issues with Default Loose we had. I ran my time with that combination LSD you don't care for.;)

That was one of the reasons I started following these tire forums. It was like some of you guys where playing a different game by what you where describing. Im using ffb600 along with the one 4 the physics threads(cant remember that one now) for start commands if that makes a difference. I definitely didn't have that issue on this track. The car does take a little getting used to but the first wr time I set was like my 5th lap with it and pretty much default . Obviously it took a little more practice and a little tweaking to get closer to the top times but spinning out wasn't really an issue. I did leave the diff alone (ran both on)except for changing the gear diff settings a little on my last run but I didn't change a lot of other stuff to get that. I think id have to agree that its something on your end because the car starts out nice and grippy from the start and I really didn't notice anything odd. Its actually sort of fun to drive.

cpcdem
24-05-2018, 11:16
Yeah, at the moment it's only people who have different machines to test with (low, medium and high end) that can test back to back and tell us for sure if this is a real issue, or it's just placebo effect we are having. In a few months, when GPU prices will become rational again, I also plan to buy a much faster machine that the one I currently have, then I will be able to compare myself, too.