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MrGwafa
15-05-2018, 19:53
Hello All,

I'd like to share how much I fell in love with driving road cars on Bannochbrae. I've had some fun on the track in the career mode - as far as I remember it the event was in the Aston Martin DBR1, and the weather changes from clear to fog during the race. Cool stuff. But what really made me love the road car + Bannochbrae combination was a 20-person BMW 1 M StanceWorks public lobby, when I was late for qualifying, but still got 3rd in the race. After the race I went to Time Trial to beat the world record. It was relatively easy, as there are not that many people hotlapping this track. And this led me to an idea - maybe I'll try to beat the Bannochbrae WR with all the road cars? Mind you, holding all the records at the same time was not the goal, only beating each record. And here I am 2 weeks later, actually holding all 50 Bannochbrae road car World Records on PC. There were only 4 records I lost during those 2 weeks - so why not make the challenge just that little bit harder? :)

I learned a lot during this challenge - for most of the cars, it was my first experience driving them. There's actually a great diversity here, not only between the classes, but even in the classes themselves. I'll go over all the classes, listing the lap times, and discussing the cars I found notable. I didn't take notes during the challenge, so I'll be doing this from memory. Keep in mind I'm no alien, nor am I a setup wizard. I'm just a guy that wanted a reasonably difficult, yet attainable challenge - so the times might not be all that great. Some of those I literally set on the first lap, and called it a day. But some records took some real effort to beat. Without any further ado, let's talk cars:

Road G
Ford Mustang 2+2 Fastback 02:48.322
BMW 2002 Turbo 02:49.804
Toyota 86 02:51.056
Toyota GT-86 02:51.792
Ford F-150 RTR Ultimate Funhaver 02:52.410
Ford Escort RS1600 02:52.480

I really liked this class. The cars are slow of course, but they offer quite the variety. The Escort RS1600 is the easiest road car to drive, and I feel like it should be recommended more to the beginners. It can take all 4 fast left-handers (Turn 1; the turn before the first bridge; the turn before you enter the town, after you pass under the bridge; and the turn after you leave town) flat out. The F-150 was surprisingly controllable. Sure, it's the slowest road car in the corners, but it wants to turn, and does not want to kill you. The only cars I didn't care much for were the 86s - once you start the slide, you are commited to it longer than I would like. I felt like they are better for drifting, than racing. And I just don't find drifting all that fun (you can read this as: I suck at drifring :P). The fact that I had to spend some time beating the WR in the Toyotas didn't help. Nor did switching from a car with the steering wheel on the left to a car with the steering wheel on the right on a track where you have to get close to the barriers.

Road F
Honda Civic Type-R 02:34.911
Renault Megane RS 275 02:36.579
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI TME 02:40.495
Audi A1 Quattro 02:42.201

The class with the fewest cars, yet I spent a lot of time here. The reason was the Evo VI - I think it took me 2 days to beat the WR. Good thing was, I absolutely loved the Evo. I must say I liked most of the 4-wheel drive cars. All of them like to slide, but I found the slides easily controllable, unlike the more drift-focused cars. The Civic on the other hand was my least favourite car here, even though it was fast. I found it hard to control. The Megane was the opposite - very tame, yet still fast.

Road E
Mercedes-AMG C 63 Coupe S 02:28.394
Porsche 959 S 02:28.995
Ferrari 288 GTO 02:29.060
Ford Mustang GT 02:31.683
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X 02:32.061
Mercedes-AMG A 45 4MATIC 02:32.799
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX 02:32.940
BMW 1 M Coupe 02:35.222

Another great set of cars. The biggest surprise was the C-class. I expected it to be heavy and sluggish. It had the strongest FFB of all the road cars (my hands actually felt tired after only a few laps on my CSW 2.5), but it was so good to throw into the corners, and I always felt in control. The Porsche felt quite similar. The Ferrari was the purest form of performance car of the lot - no electronics, a lot of power, yet still easy to control. The Evos where as good as the VI. The only car that I didn't like was the BMW, which felt pretty similar to the 86s - another car way too eager to let the rear loose, and keep it that way. But all in all, this might be a great class to race online. The cars are reasonably fast, offer quite a variety, yet they are not hard enough to kill the less experienced drivers.

Road D
KTM X-Bow R 02:21.521
Caterham Seven 620 R 02:23.020
Jaguar F-Type SVR Coupe 02:27.159
BMW 1 M Coupe StanceWorks 02:28.294
Aston Martin DB11 02:29.300
Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 02:30.260

What a strange set of cars. On this track, the Jaguar, BMW, Aston and Chevrolet offer similar performance to the Road E cars. They are a bit harder to handle, due to the increased power. The notable car of the set is the BMW, which is nothing like the Road E equivalent - the rear wing solves all my problems with that car and makes it very nice to drive. And then there are the 2 road-legal track toys, that feel nothing like road cars :). The Caterham was the second car I spend the most time with. It took me a long while to get anywhere near competetive times with this car. I actually started with Road D cars, but after getting to the Caterham, I switched to Road G, returning here only after doing Road G, Road F and Road E. The defaults setups were very unstable, so I took the setup from the previous holder, as I couldn't fix the crazy oversteer with my changes. After 2 days of hotlapping, I finally nailed it - and in this long process I came to like the car. I wouldn't like to drive it IRL, as it had a nasty tendency to turn a slide into a spectacular roll-over crash, without touching the barriers or the kerbs. As for the KTM - do not let the game designation of Cornering Speed 1 fool you. It is the fastest cornering road car, able to go full throttle on the same corners the Escort could. I assume it would get murdered on faster tracks like Monza, but here it was spectacular, punching way above it's weight category.

Road C
Porsche Carrera GT 02:22.199
Audi R8 V10 Plus 02:22.398
Lamborghini Huracan 02:23.000
Acura NSX 02:23.720
McLaren 570S 02:23.459
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 02:23.519
McLaren F1 02:24.060
Mercedes-AMG GT R 02:25.601
Aston Martin Vantage GT12 02:26.447
Toyota GT-86 Rocket Bunny Street 02:27.078
Nissan GT-R Nismo 02:27.154

See what I meant? All those cars were slower than the KTM! There are 11 cars here (the most of any road car class), and for the longest time I couldn't find anything I liked. The cars either felt overassisted, leading to unexpected understeer (McLaren 570S, Nismo), or actively trying to kill you, especially on the bumps and crests (Carrera GT, Toyota GT-86 Rocket Bunny). The cars felt like they just couldn't handle the power. Luckily, the 4-wheel driven cars other than the Nismo felt great. The Aston was a fun car - it felt very fast, as it would get the rear loose and allow you to catch the slide pretty easily, yet the lap times weren't good at all.

Road B
Jaguar XJ220 S 02:17.000
Enzo Ferrari 02:17.200
BAC Mono 02:17.579
Pagani Zonda Cinque 02:18.325
Porsche 911 GT3 RS 02:20.039
Ford GT 02:20.878
Lamborghini Aventador 02:20.940
Lamborghini Veneno 02:22.078

The Enzo. Oh, the Enzo. If this car is accurate, it is probably the best driving road car - and I don't mean in PC2, I mean EVER. This thing handles like an LMP1 prototype, it's absolutely glued to the road, and corners only slightly slower than the KTM. This class in general has some great driving cars. The Mono corners about as fast as the Caterham, maybe a bit faster. It took me some time before the car clicked with me, but when it did, it was a blast. You have to throw it into corners pretty hard, and than catch the slide. The only car that I didn't like was the Veneno, and even though it's based on the Aventador and has more power, I couldn't match the Aventador's lap times.

Road A
Porsche 918 Spyder 02:12.360
LaFerrari 02:13.018
McLaren P1 02:14.303
Radical RXC Turbo 02:14.597
McLaren 720S 02:17.001
Pagani Huayra BC 02:17.777

The hypercars. Of the hybrid trinity, I liked the LaFerrari the most, but still it is my least favourite Ferrari. I don't feel like this track suits these cars - it's a bit similar to most of the Road C cars. The cars don't like the crests, and you will have to be very careful with the throttle, or you will die. The only exception here is the track toy - still, I expected more from the Radical. I thought it would be the fastest road car in the corners, but I couldn't match the speeds attained by the KTM. If you want to race these cars, take them to a GP track.

So there you go. I'd like you to take one thing from this post - give the road cars a chance, especially in online play. Road E would be my favourite for Bannochbrae public lobbys, just don't take the BMW.

Shoutouts: there were some names that I can remember from the leaderboards. Xero-G, cpcdem, Ralf Wolferz (Ger), 80Daze, ShinChanGaming - you guys made this not a walk in the park, kudos. I might have taken something from you, you are welcome to take it back :).

Stewy32
15-05-2018, 20:01
I think your next challenge should be to hold them all at once!But congratulations man,great job by you.

MrGwafa
15-05-2018, 20:07
I think your next challenge should be to hold them all at once!But congratulations man,great job by you.

Actually, I do hold them all right now :). https://pcars.13ms.de/#/users/76561198053253657 - the site is updated once a day, so it still shows the Porsche 918 as held by another person, but I improved on that time today.

cpcdem
15-05-2018, 20:24
Hey, just for this post, the forum should have a functionality like "Like x 10", or something like that!

Congrats, amazing work! And your analysis for the cars is fantastic! I have driven a lot all the Road D,E,F,G cars and I absolutely agree with everything you said, those were my exact same thoughts about those cars as well! Except for the Caterham, I love this car, maybe it's because it's the first road car I tried :)

So now I also know who is that "tchoob" guy I was seeing in the leaderboards :). Very well done again, an yeah, I think a couple of those records were mine, I will probably fight back a bit one day :)

Cholton82
16-05-2018, 14:42
Great post , Going to have to show some love to this track and road cars . Next time I get chance I’ll see how I fair against some of these times although in Pcars 2 I’ve probably only driven that track twice .

MrGwafa
16-05-2018, 16:01
Hey, just for this post, the forum should have a functionality like "Like x 10", or something like that!

Congrats, amazing work! And your analysis for the cars is fantastic! I have driven a lot all the Road D,E,F,G cars and I absolutely agree with everything you said, those were my exact same thoughts about those cars as well! Except for the Caterham, I love this car, maybe it's because it's the first road car I tried :)

So now I also know who is that "tchoob" guy I was seeing in the leaderboards :). Very well done again, an yeah, I think a couple of those records were mine, I will probably fight back a bit one day :)
Regarding the Caterham - I think what changed the car for me was a lowered ride height. This mostly prevents the roll-over crashes from getting the rear too loose. I liked it in the end.

There's one thing I forgot to add - this challenge has made me appreciate the way that FFB is done in Project Cars 2. I'm using Raw settings, and the cars feel so vastly different. I like that the driving feel is a characteristic of the car, not the game.

Leper Messiah
16-05-2018, 17:03
awesome read! My fave track from PC and still love it now.

Malcstar
16-05-2018, 23:44
Nice post, good read!

The laferrari is a crazy car and yes, it wants to kill you. I'm still dissatisfied with how it handles as a road car. Trying to just cruise California highway with the OEM setup at even considerably slow speed is difficult to keep your car on the road. If the game is anything to go by I wouldn't want to drive on IRL.

Swass
17-05-2018, 13:20
Is Bannochbrae a DLC track? I don't think I've seen/raced on that one before.

Bealdor
17-05-2018, 13:26
Is Bannochbrae a DLC track? I don't think I've seen/raced on that one before.

It was in PCARS 1 but it's part of the base game now.

Alfisti
17-05-2018, 16:22
bravo on the post

BrainsBush
17-05-2018, 16:44
When PCars2 was launched I did a lot of laps and time trial challenges at lovely track Bannochbrae. After a couple of months and reading your inspirational story it is time to discover this track again. So challenge accepted ;)

simsimsheree
17-05-2018, 19:53
This is a great post (the OP), but does it expose something here?

Yes, these are some fun cars when it comes to driving them, but where is the fun racing them?

Road Group G, a range of over 4s/lap. Only two within 1s/lap.
Road Group F, a 7sec spread. Nothing within 1s/lap.
Road Group E, another 7sec spread. More parity (more cars) but still a max of 3 even close.
Road Group D, 9s spread, few close.

Etc., etc..

They are fun to drive, but close to impossible to race without it turning into an almost one make. Is it time that SMS add a BoP function, to allow the fairly small selection per group the opportunity to do what the game was designed to do..?

Race!

MrGwafa
18-05-2018, 05:41
This is a great post (the OP), but does it expose something here?

Yes, these are some fun cars when it comes to driving them, but where is the fun racing them?

Road Group G, a range of over 4s/lap. Only two within 1s/lap.
Road Group F, a 7sec spread. Nothing within 1s/lap.
Road Group E, another 7sec spread. More parity (more cars) but still a max of 3 even close.
Road Group D, 9s spread, few close.

Etc., etc..

They are fun to drive, but close to impossible to race without it turning into an almost one make. Is it time that SMS add a BoP function, to allow the fairly small selection per group the opportunity to do what the game was designed to do..?

Race!

Please don't take my times as the true state of balance between cars. I didn't spend the same amount of time on them, and the amount of setup work was also different.
With that out of the way, if wouldn't use road cars for high level, league racing with hour long races. But that's not the majority of online racing in Project Cars 2. For short, 6-8 lap races in public lobbies, these cars are deffinitely fun to race. Sure, they are not perfectly balanced, but with so much variety, I wouldn't even like to see any attempt at BoP. Take the road cars for what they are, and have some casual racing fun in them.

Shogun613
18-05-2018, 07:41
Bannochbrae is great with road cars, especially with the 911 GT3 RS... TONS of fun

cpcdem
18-05-2018, 11:03
Please don't take my times as the true state of balance between cars. I didn't spend the same amount of time on them, and the amount of setup work was also different.
With that out of the way, if wouldn't use road cars for high level, league racing with hour long races. But that's not the majority of online racing in Project Cars 2. For short, 6-8 lap races in public lobbies, these cars are deffinitely fun to race. Sure, they are not perfectly balanced, but with so much variety, I wouldn't even like to see any attempt at BoP. Take the road cars for what they are, and have some casual racing fun in them.

I'd love to do hour long races with the road cars! :) We often do have some nice short races at nights, but would be very nice to me if leagues were using them for longer ones.

Only problem is that you have very little choice if you want to be competitive, either the F-150 or the Mustang for Road G, only the Honda for Road F, the Caterham (or in some cases the KTM) for D, only the Bac Mono for B... I agree with others that it would be perfect (and it is very much needed) to have some way to enforce a BoP, with values either provided by SMS, or by ourselves.

Stewy32
18-05-2018, 18:30
I'd love to do hour long races with the road cars! :) We often do have some nice short races at nights, but would be very nice to me if leagues were using them for longer ones.

Only problem is that you have very little choice if you want to be competitive, either the F-150 or the Mustang for Road G, only the Honda for Road F, the Caterham (or in some cases the KTM) for D, only the Bac Mono for B... I agree with others that it would be perfect (and it is very much needed) to have some way to enforce a BoP, with values either provided by SMS, or by ourselves.

I am considering using the Radical for something.

MrGwafa
18-05-2018, 18:32
While longer races could be fun, I really don't like the idea of BoP for road cars. How would you approach BoP for cars like KTM X-Bow and Aston Martin DB11? Which tracks should the BoP be based on? The only way I see it, is give the players the ability to do BoP themselves on a per-track basis. Otherwise you'll have balance for just a small subset of tracks, or kill what makes the cars unique.