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leerex
23-05-2018, 05:46
So I'm hot-lapping Le Mans in the Porsche LMP1 and am only reaching 175 mph on the Mulsanne. Top speed is supposed to be around 211. Others are lapping at 3:06 and I am at 3:40. Such a gap cannot be just setup, can it. Tried playing around with Race Engineer but no difference. No idea how to do my own setups. What am I missing?

Audi75
23-05-2018, 06:07
Downfocre and gearing, reduce down force to almost zero, and extend your final drive.

Sessionerror
23-05-2018, 06:09
in the Porsche LMP1

Did I miss something?

Well, I don't know which car you're actually driving, but considering the top speed with hybrid LMP1s, a lot depends on the usage of the battery power, which is being used at a throttle input of more than 80 or 90 percent (I'm not quite sure right now). Saving some of the battery power for the long straights helps a lot, regarding top speeds.

cluck
23-05-2018, 08:36
Did I miss something?

Well, I don't know which car you're actually driving, but considering the top speed with hybrid LMP1s, a lot depends on the usage of the battery power, which is being used at a throttle input of more than 80 or 90 percent (I'm not quite sure right now). Saving some of the battery power for the long straights helps a lot, regarding top speeds.Judging by the times quoted, I'm guessing the OP meant to type Toyota (the #1 Le Mans time in an LMP1 car right now is 3m06 in the Toyota TS040). But yeah, the tips are basically the same for that, as well as the fairly well known 'exploit' real world technique (thanks hkraft :D) of running much lower brake pressure to brake earlier for each corner giving longer charging time on the KERS.

hkraft300
23-05-2018, 08:49
..., as well as the fairly well known 'exploit' of running much lower brake pressure to brake earlier for each corner giving longer charging time on the KERS.

Is it really an "exploit" though, or realistic behaviour?


http://youtu.be/NoxLT-cVQrw

cluck
23-05-2018, 08:55
^^^ ooooh interesting :cool:

I'd always seen it as an 'exploit' because the brake pressure is reduced dramatically from what you run in most cars (and how the default setup is) but clearly this is simply how the car is supposed to be driven. Ta for the link :)

hkraft300
23-05-2018, 10:24
It's not a bug, it's a feature ;)

Sessionerror
23-05-2018, 10:29
Do we actually recover energy from the engine brake in Project CARS 2 as well, or is it better to reduce the engine brake power and only use the brakes (with reduced brake power) to reduce speed and regain energy?

BTW: Really informative video, thank you!

AbeWoz
23-05-2018, 11:30
the 'exploit' that allows the cars to run so much faster in PC2 is the lack of fuel limit per lap like they have IRL. The game limits your KERS usage, but the rel LMP1 cars also have a maximum fuel energy use per lap.

KANETAKER
23-05-2018, 14:20
That may be due (according to my guess) because in the game the cars (regardless of their category) are as they left the factory, without any restrictions or BoP applied later during the respective season in which the car participates, For example: The limit of fuel consumption (in Kg) per lap or per hour, as well as the limit of tire sets per race, and the fact that like most online races are short races that allows the use of tires soft (except if the weather is too hot and the track is very abrasive), when medium or hard compounds are usually used in long-duration races

Probably the absence of a real BoP in the game is one of the reasons why (for example) some models of GT3 and GTE cars are not faster than their rivals as they are in real life, even on those tracks where a car brand has clearly exceeded others but in the game that domain is not reflected and even the opposite has happened, which has caused confusion and in some cases dislikes of some players and fans of real racing at the same time.

The clearest example is that of the LMP1 cars, where I have understood that (during the last 3 seasons) for the 24 hours of LeMans the maximum power of the LMP1-H was restricted from 1000 hp to 900 hp, but as we see in the game does not happen that. If that is added to other factors such as setting a race lobby to have all the optimal conditions (similar to those of Time Trial mode) such as deactivating mechanical failures and tire wear, that helps achieve time by return much faster than in real life.

Unfortunately, the game only has one parameter in the form of BoP: The Restrictor Plate, but that only serves to limit the power (and maximum speed) of the cars. Ideally, you should be able to count on the other parameters that are used in real life. apply BoP, such as:

- Increase of ballast (extra weight).
- Size of the rear spoiler, to increase or reduce the downforce (for example: It is said that the GTD in IMSA are the same GT3 cars but with a spoiler that makes them clearly slower than the GTE, compared to what we see in the game).
- Flow rate of fuel consumption or the amount of fuel a car can load (influencing the number of laps it can run before refueling).
Etc.

But even more difficult would be that the host could control all that to prevent a player breaking the rules, which currently happens with the Restrictor Plate, the only way to control the request a video recording of the player adjusting the restrictor plate and giving click on "Ready" before starting the race.

In addition, the problem of the restrictor plate is that only its effect will be noticeable on tracks with long straights (LeMans, Daytona, Monza, Nordschleife) or that are located in elevated areas (RedBull Ring, Bathrust), while on normal or small tracks it would have no effect, and that is where you need to have more parameters to apply a BoP.

hkraft300
23-05-2018, 14:28
Probably the absence of a real BoP in the game is one of the reasons why (for example) some models of GT3 and GTE cars are not faster than their rivals as they are in real life, even on those tracks where a car brand has clearly exceeded others but in the game that domain is not reflected and even the opposite has happened, which has caused confusion and in some cases dislikes of some players and fans of real racing at the same time.

You don't have lap time data prove this.
Also the cars in game have BoP for a wide range of tracks, not specific to particular tracks. That said, some cars suit some tracks and are weak at others.
Allowing one car in game to be absolutely dominant at a particular track is ridiculous.

Edit: Ford GT one year got ridiculous BoP and won the Championship. It would be ridiculous if that car was allowed to be so dominant in the game. It would destroy the GTE class in the game, much like the 488 GT3 was doing until it got reigned in. Even then the 488 wasn't so far ahead that a good driver in another couldn't beat it.


The clearest example is that of the LMP1 cars, where I have understood that (during the last 3 seasons) for the 24 hours of LeMans the maximum power of the LMP1-H was restricted from 1000 hp to 900 hp, but as we see in the game does not happen that. If that is added to other factors such as setting a race lobby to have all the optimal conditions (similar to those of Time Trial mode) such as deactivating mechanical failures and tire wear, that helps achieve time by return much faster than in real life.


It's 2018. The cars in game are 2014. 2014 was >3 years ago. 1000hp limit applies.

TexasTyme214
23-05-2018, 15:03
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/121123/no-1000hp-limit-for-lmp1-cars-in-wec

2016 Le Mans was the start of the 1000hp cap at LM and free upper limits on all other tracks. 900hp must have only applied to last year only.

hkraft300
23-05-2018, 15:25
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/121123/no-1000hp-limit-for-lmp1-cars-in-wec

2016 Le Mans was the start of the 1000hp cap at LM and free upper limits on all other tracks. 900hp must have only applied to last year only.

I didn't think there was a HP cap actually. Only an energy and fuel flow cap.
So 1000hp for LM and more for other tracks? Holy crap.

leerex
23-05-2018, 16:12
Thanks to all for your kind replies. The video was especially helpful. I hadn't even considered the hybrid aspect so I guess I'll have to change my driving style. I was driving a Toyota, not a Porsche. My mistake! I'm not familiar with some of the abreviations so could someone tell me what OP and BoP mean?

Mahjik
23-05-2018, 16:25
OP = Original Poster (of the thread). You in this case. ;)

BoP = Balance of Performance

gregc
23-05-2018, 16:25
Thanks to all for your kind replies. The video was especially helpful. I hadn't even considered the hybrid aspect so I guess I'll have to change my driving style. I was driving a Toyota, not a Porsche. My mistake! I'm not familiar with some of the abreviations so could someone tell me what OP and BoP mean?

BoP = Balance of Performance. This is the name for measures taken in the GT3 and GTE classes (and others) to ensure that all the different models of car have roughly equal performance, in terms of laptime. Ballast weight and air restrictors (to reduce power) are the usual methods used - both in real life by the governing bodies of the sport, and in game by SMS. IRL it's virtually impossible to get it totally right, so you always end up with unhappy teams when they feel they've received a raw deal (see the Lamborghini teams in this years Blancpain series....), and it's an ongoing process at the moment in pCARS2.

Just to add a bit of extra confusion, there's also EoT (Equivalence of Technology) which is used specifically in the LMP1 class to try and balance different types of power unit - in previous years petrol/diesel, more recently different types of hybrid, and this year hybrid and non-hybrid. This one is creating quite some controversy right now after recent announcements....

edit - ninjas, dammit....

leerex
23-05-2018, 17:50
BoP = Balance of Performance. This is the name for measures taken in the GT3 and GTE classes (and others) to ensure that all the different models of car have roughly equal performance, in terms of laptime. Ballast weight and air restrictors (to reduce power) are the usual methods used - both in real life by the governing bodies of the sport, and in game by SMS. IRL it's virtually impossible to get it totally right, so you always end up with unhappy teams when they feel they've received a raw deal (see the Lamborghini teams in this years Blancpain series....), and it's an ongoing process at the moment in pCARS2.

Just to add a bit of extra confusion, there's also EoT (Equivalence of Technology) which is used specifically in the LMP1 class to try and balance different types of power unit - in previous years petrol/diesel, more recently different types of hybrid, and this year hybrid and non-hybrid. This one is creating quite some controversy right now after recent announcements....

edit - ninjas, dammit....

Thanks for the explanation. Still, as you mentioned, it's a bit confusing.

leerex
23-05-2018, 18:10
OK, I've been trying a few more laps at Le Mans. Slower, more braking time to charge the battery but still not getting past 175 on the Mulsanne. 7th gear, max RPM. So if the top gear is at the limit, why am I not getting better speed?? It is as if the car is limited by a governor. If I knew how to record this I'd send it along.

gregc
23-05-2018, 18:52
You need to tune the car - both of the default setups are general purpose, and therefore not ideal for Le Mans. Close up the brake ducts and radiator a bit, reduce the downforce a lot, and lower the final drive (if you don't do the last one you'll never go faster than you are now, as you will always run out of revs). I just did a very quick'n'dirty tune and hit 319 kph (~198 mph) before the first chicane.

254913

leerex
23-05-2018, 22:43
You need to tune the car - both of the default setups are general purpose, and therefore not ideal for Le Mans. Close up the brake ducts and radiator a bit, reduce the downforce a lot, and lower the final drive (if you don't do the last one you'll never go faster than you are now, as you will always run out of revs). I just did a very quick'n'dirty tune and hit 319 kph (~198 mph) before the first chicane.

254913

THANKS! Just changing the top gear got me to 190 mph! More to do to get me to the max but this is a great start. As I wrote earlier, I'm new to this setup thing so I appreciate the helping hand. It's kind of like the human body, isn't it?...everything depends on everything else. I guess the goal is to have a healthy car.
But while I have your ear, is there any way to edit the setups without having to exit and start over? Very time consuming. It would be nice to be able to change the setups while on track but maybe there's a better way.

All the best...Lee

hkraft300
23-05-2018, 23:58
...7th gear, max RPM. So if the top gear is at the limit, why am I not getting better speed?? It is as if the car is limited by a governor. If I knew how to record this I'd send it along.

You are hitting a governor. It's called the rev limiter.

The engine can only spin so fast. You're at max revs on 7th. Engine can't spin faster = Car won't go faster.

Change your 7th gear or your final drive ratio to a smaller number.

Zaskarspants
24-05-2018, 09:51
THANKS! Just changing the top gear got me to 190 mph! More to do to get me to the max but this is a great start. As I wrote earlier, I'm new to this setup thing so I appreciate the helping hand. It's kind of like the human body, isn't it?...everything depends on everything else. I guess the goal is to have a healthy car.
But while I have your ear, is there any way to edit the setups without having to exit and start over? Very time consuming. It would be nice to be able to change the setups while on track but maybe there's a better way.

All the best...Lee

If you find it wearisome to change set ups you will find the vast majority of car / track combinations will work fine with default tunes ( le mans being one of the few exceptions due to the long straights).

I didn't really touch set ups untill I could best the AI at 80 difficulty as I was a bit intimidated by all the settings, but as you learn the game adjusting set ups is one of the most rewarding aspects of play.