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Konan
04-06-2018, 05:45
Please use this thread to discuss Patch 6.0 on XB1.

[Release notes] (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55370-Project-CARS-2-Xbox-One-Updates-Changelog&p=1514639&viewfull=1#post1514639)

For those new to Project CARS, the patch threads are NOT for discussing what is NOT in the patch. The patch threads are for discussing what IS contained in the patch. Other posts will be removed.

JasonSandwich
04-06-2018, 05:53
Searching time trial leaderboards goes past page four! It still fails eventually but loads quicker and seems like it tries a bit longer before timing out.

Konan
04-06-2018, 06:02
From skcusIHC :
Gear indicator in pits is now correct

From g.stew :
I did some laps with the hard slicks on the rsr. It was awesome. First time I've ever got goosebumps playing this game.

Main thing I notice is that when I'm driving on tyres that aren't warmed up yet, I'm not sliding out and losing control. I'll still get these slides here and there when I push too far, but they are controllable. And the grip just keeps on getting better and better as I get the temps higher and the pressures closer to around 1.7 bar.

I just felt this confidence in the car that builds will the grip. I just did a couple laps and beat my old best time on watkins by over 1 second after 5 laps.

Excited to see what others experience.

Bealdor
04-06-2018, 06:03
Schtickied!!

Stone Cold Stig
04-06-2018, 06:10
WHAT!!??? THE PATCH IS OUT??
IS IT TIME TO PARTY??:applouse:

OddTimer
04-06-2018, 06:22
Downloading it in the UK!

Fert
04-06-2018, 06:37
Where can I find the notes for this patch please

Konan
04-06-2018, 06:39
Where can I find the notes for this patch please

If there are any they will be posted in the OP as soon as they are available...

OddTimer
04-06-2018, 06:47
If there are any they will be posted in the OP as soon as they are available...

I think SMS is still waking up at this point lol. What SMS has said about keeping notes to a minimum seems to make sense when you look at update release times (5 and 6). good stuff. Positively surprised it came out for Xbox first.

Cladandadum
04-06-2018, 06:50
I think SMS is still waking up at this point lol. What SMS has said about keeping notes to a minimum seems to make sense when you look at update release times (5 and 6). good stuff. Positively surprised it came out for Xbox first.

Kind of funny that the consoles are downloading the patch first...

Lakiboom
04-06-2018, 06:54
I have tried new patch on gamepad and i liked it. At wet conditions car feels better and more stable with wet tyres. Hard and soft feels excelent too. Brakes temperature works now in telemetry (overheat colors). Will check more with steering wheel after work day :)

Stone Cold Stig
04-06-2018, 07:11
How large is this patch?

I cant start my download just yet.

OTLmattx88
04-06-2018, 07:13
How large is this patch?

I cant start my download just yet.

The download is 3.86GB.

bluesky0870
04-06-2018, 07:20
I see, the account deletion works as well as the fixing of the discrepancy of steering and handling between private testing/hotlapping in single player mode and time trials. In both cases simply has happened nothing.
Time trials are still BROKEN and UNPLAYABLE for me.
While the cars in single player private testing handle well, they are in exactly the same way undrivable as after patch 5.0 in time trials. Still totally overreacting under exactly the same conditions.

skcusIHC
04-06-2018, 07:39
I think the FFB on Fanatec CSW 2.5 is stronger than it was. My arms are absolutely dead after a 250 mile race. Turned gain down in game from 80 to 70 right away after running a couple practice laps. Mid race, probably dialed it down another 20 or so on the wheel because my arms were feeling it.

Got wrecked by the AI on the final lap. Ran out of gas while missing a tire and trying to limp it home coming to the checkers. Came to a halt maybe a couple hundred feet shy of the finish line. :mad:

It seemed like I could run hard through the dirt on track (damn AI) and not really worry about losing it.

Ofnir4
04-06-2018, 08:33
Schtickied!!

Are you Jamsche Bond ? Played by famousch Shcottish actor Schean Connery ?

Bealdor
04-06-2018, 08:47
Are you Jamsche Bond ? Played by famousch Shcottish actor Schean Connery ?

Nah, it's just my Saxonian accent coming through. :biggrin-new:

dan2312
04-06-2018, 09:08
The download is 3.86GB.

Thats funny, because my patch on steam is 1.0GB

Bealdor
04-06-2018, 09:10
Thats funny, because my patch on steam is 1.0GB

You're on PC. This is the XB1 discussion thread.

dan2312
04-06-2018, 09:19
You're on PC. This is the XB1 discussion thread.

Ah, that explains it, i just followed a link here. lol

Konan
04-06-2018, 09:21
Ah, that explains it, i just followed a link here. lol

This is where you need to go mate...

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?63504-PC-Patch-6-0-Discussion-thread

:cool:

Hammerpgh
04-06-2018, 12:39
I'm away at the moment so can't check for myself but can anyone confirm whether the fuel mix issues have been corrected in this patch.

Ofnir4
04-06-2018, 12:44
I'm away at the moment so can't check for myself but can anyone confirm whether the fuel mix issues have been corrected in this patch.

It seems to work, I'm not 100% sure on the scale and the effect (did not test long enough), I tried a P2 around indy, saved 0.1L every lap and lost around 6 to 8 tenth every lap. "Standard" cars look good but at least the LMP1 are unaffected, fuel mixes only change the hybrid deployment "curve" so to speak. Internal combustion engine still runs at the same pace no matter what engine mode you choose.

Jezza819
04-06-2018, 13:23
The download is 3.86GB.

Hmm.. I'm still having console issues and yesterday afternoon Xbox support had me do another delete saved games type of reboot but I immediately didn't go back and try to play. But I did last night around 11pm CDT here in America and the first thing it did was download a 3.9gb update but I didn't think to check to see if the version had changed. If the update was installed then I think the Road America AI issue still isn't fixed. Now i'm going to be curious about it all day until I can get home to check it out.

Mark Race
04-06-2018, 13:24
Great to see this patch arrive on Xbox on the same day as PC showing this can be achieved, well done SMS, I look forward to trying out the changes later. We are still having a lot of fun with the much improved game since launch both in career and multiplayer, what I've read so far sounds like PCARS2 just got even better.

Schnizz58
04-06-2018, 14:24
patch 6 not made one bit of difference game still broken on all modes tyres still not right physics not right.the tyres dont give same levels of grip from free practice to qualify to race.physics are a joke cars doing 360 spins at 6 miles per hour.

Well that throws a bit of a wet blanket on the party doesn't it? I was hoping for a fix or at least a way to control the number of AI in career races.

Sankyo
04-06-2018, 14:30
patch 6 not made one bit of difference game still broken on all modes tyres still not right physics not right.the tyres dont give same levels of grip from free practice to qualify to race.physics are a joke cars doing 360 spins at 6 miles per hour.
What car(s), what track(s), what condition(s), what controller?

This XB1X user does not exactly give the same feedback, so we need more details on your case.


I did some laps with the hard slicks on the rsr. It was awesome. First time I've ever got goosebumps playing this game.

Main thing I notice is that when I'm driving on tyres that aren't warmed up yet, I'm not sliding out and losing control. I'll still get these slides here and there when I push too far, but they are controllable. And the grip just keeps on getting better and better as I get the temps higher and the pressures closer to around 1.7 bar.

I just felt this confidence in the car that builds will the grip. I just did a couple laps and beat my old best time on watkins by over 1 second after 5 laps.

Excited to see what others experience.

Cholton82
04-06-2018, 14:32
Literally playing for 4 hours yesterday and it feels awesome , what are the grip issues you are having ? Wet track or dry track ? And what cars are you having problems with ? Hopefully I can help in some way although we are using different wheels as I’m on the T300

Mark Race
04-06-2018, 14:34
patch 6 not made one bit of difference game still broken on all modes tyres still not right physics not right.the tyres dont give same levels of grip from free practice to qualify to race.physics are a joke cars doing 360 spins at 6 miles per hour.

How strange, PCARS2 seems to be working perfectly well on Xbox and PC for me and my group of friends. Is it possible you might be exaggerating these issues just a little? ;)

If this is a specific scenario issue post up a video and I'm sure you'll get some help.

Just to be sure though you didn't accidentally put the disk for the Italian :lemo: in your console did you? That can spoil a good day.

Juiced46
04-06-2018, 14:38
How strange, PCARS2 seems to be working perfectly well on Xbox and PC for me and my group of friends. Is it possible you might be exaggerating these issues just a little? ;)

If this is a specific scenario issue post up a video and I'm sure you'll get some help.

Just to be sure though you didn't accidentally put the disk for the Italian :lemo: in your console did you? That can spoil a good day.

There are a few people that claim this then give zero detail. I have had no issues on Patch 5 with grip. Hopefully this guy can come on here and explain his problem. If not. It will be the typical bash the game and give no input

Juiced46
04-06-2018, 14:39
driving on proving grounds in career where its exactly like it was pre patch tyres that don't give any consistent grip at all and physics that spin you out at very low speeds

What proving grounds? What cars? How many AI? What tires? Track?

Juiced46
04-06-2018, 14:42
Ohh nevermind. I remember you now, I read your old thread. We had this convo before and you called me a liar and I tested your situation with different results.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62754-Setup-suggestions/page3

Zaskarspants
04-06-2018, 15:00
driving on proving grounds in career where its exactly like it was pre patch tyres that don't give any consistent grip at all and physics that spin you out at very low speeds.using thrustmaster tx wheel pro pedals and shifter.wheel has latest firmware,and no i am not just bashing the game so wanted this patch to sort these things out.so juiced46 should not jump to conclusions.

Since it was not like this pre patch I do wonder if something you are doing and was doing pre patch is causing your distress. Are you warming up your tyres in p and q?

Juiced46
04-06-2018, 15:02
Since it was not like this pre patch I do wonder if something you are doing and was doing pre patch is causing your distress. Are you warming up your tyres in p and q?

Just read his previous thread in this link. He had the issue pre patch.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62754-Setup-suggestions/page3

trading standards
04-06-2018, 15:03
not able to warm tyres up in p or q on proving grounds race only

skcusIHC
04-06-2018, 15:05
Juiced46,

I know you're running the Fanatec CSW also. Are you also finding the FFB stronger on 6.0? I had to dial mine down a good fair amount.

Juiced46
04-06-2018, 15:06
didn't call you a liar asked you to post a video to back up your claims but you didn't.read it back slowly to see where i called you a liar.but not getting into that.

To be honest. If you didnt call me a liar in the other thread and try to say my screenshot was a false claim and that I may have just doctored a picture. Id take the time to post a video. But I am not going to waste my time, I have helped many on this forum. If my other posts dont show that and you cannot believe me. I have no reason to help you.

Schnizz58
04-06-2018, 15:06
Sounds like I'll have to try it myself when I get home tonight. An easy test is the following. Setup a custom race on a track you're familiar with, with 9 AI cars plus you. Make the conditions easy, warm weather, no rain, etc. Drive several laps and observe overall grip levels. Then exit and setup a new race. Change only the number of cars -- increase them to 19. Re-run the race. Observe if the grip is the same.

ETA: Use a car that has a decent amount of power like a GT3, Lambo ST or similar. You won't see much difference with something like a Ginetta G40 Junior.

Juiced46
04-06-2018, 15:06
Juiced46,

I know you're running the Fanatec CSW also. Are you also finding the FFB stronger on 6.0? I had to dial mine down a good fair amount.

I have not tested 6.0. I will try tonight if I have time when I get out of work

Juiced46
04-06-2018, 15:17
why the hostility ???? solves nothing.millions of people having problems are they lying also ??????

No hostility. I just said Im done trying to help you for the way you acted towards me in your other thread. We have been down this road before and it went nowhere. Im done replying to you as I dont want to continue to derail this thread. Goodluck fixing your issue.

skcusIHC
04-06-2018, 15:32
I have not tested 6.0. I will try tonight if I have time when I get out of work

Them dang work priorities.

I think you'll enjoy it. Maybe felt a little more detailed even.

trading standards
04-06-2018, 16:13
cool just say that then,live long and prosper

for those of you that would like to know i cleared system cache and the game now works 100% better more feel through ffb and the tyres actually do work as far as i can tell so far.thanks for the help you know who you are !!! without mentioning any names lol.long week ahead of racing sweet just what the doctor (46) ordered

STaLLiOnO
04-06-2018, 17:04
Consoles are still having issues holding a full room. Will this issue get a serious look?

grrrillapmp
04-06-2018, 17:25
Not home yet, is the wheel shake gone, is the handling the same from practice to race?

Asking for the og Xbox not the one x.

Zaskarspants
04-06-2018, 17:33
Not home yet, is the wheel shake gone, is the handling the same from practice to race?

I have no issues with wheel shake and if you still do I will be happy to suggest how to fix things if you post some details. I have also found no difference between PQR and PP as regards car handling or my times befor so I presume it is still fine.

I have the update but I have not played yet.

Bealdor
04-06-2018, 17:36
Not home yet, is the wheel shake gone, is the handling the same from practice to race?

Asking for the og Xbox not the one x.


I have no issues with wheel shake and if you still do I will be happy to suggest how to fix things if you post some details. I have also found no difference between PQR and PP as regards car handling or my times befor so I presume it is still fine.

I have the update but I have not played yet.

To add to that, someone mentioned that clearing the cache of the XB1 after patch installation seems to improve FFB+handling significantly.

panzerboy555
04-06-2018, 17:42
So is it safe now to add a bigger grid as I have been running a low grid count because of the handling issues?
Not had chance to install patch and test yet.

DangerDave49
04-06-2018, 18:05
No braking line available on Nordschleife Combined GT3 Lambo in Private Testing.
Tried the BMW and got the same.
Switched to Formula Renault at Red Bull Ring and braking line is ok.

This is on Xbox X using Thrustmaster wheel.

panzerboy555
04-06-2018, 21:18
Done a few tests first 22 grid works perfect then 26 grid still perfect.Thanks no more 15 car races.

Maskmagog
04-06-2018, 21:28
Great to hear about various improvements, thank you Team Blue! Only problem is that my 4yo refused to fall asleep tonight. So, which one of you told her about the patch?? :)

ShneebnaMRR108
04-06-2018, 21:53
If you want a better experience on XBoxOne, then clear the RAM before each pC2 game play session.

Smackin Fupas
04-06-2018, 22:39
I still have wheel shake in the Ginetta juniors in career mode. It also happened when I actually decided to get in a random lobby. Career mode is unplayable due to it. No, it's not the settings because I don't have a problem in other cars and in other races.

Juiced46
04-06-2018, 22:50
I still have wheel shake in the Ginetta juniors in career mode. It also happened when I actually decided to get in a random lobby. Career mode is unplayable due to it. No, it's not the settings because I don't have a problem in other cars and in other races.

Care to share more details? What Wheel, track, how many AI, when does the shake happen? Does it do it in any other mode?

Smackin Fupas
05-06-2018, 00:02
Care to share more details? What Wheel, track, how many AI, when does the shake happen? Does it do it in any other mode?

Thrustmaster TMX. AI is probably at 12. The shake happens when I'm just driving. I managed to deal with the shake at Silverstone in the rain and then Brands Hatch with just fog it's undrivable. Test session is fine.

Juiced46
05-06-2018, 02:29
Them dang work priorities.

I think you'll enjoy it. Maybe felt a little more detailed even.

FFB felt really good. I cannot tell if there was an improvement or not, but everything I drove tonight felt great. I did not have to dial down FF at all on my wheel. I played tonight with no setting changes from what I was running on Patch 5.


Thrustmaster TMX. AI is probably at 12. The shake happens when I'm just driving. I managed to deal with the shake at Silverstone in the rain and then Brands Hatch with just fog it's undrivable. Test session is fine.

I run a Fanatec but I tested anyway. In P, Q, R in career mode, zero shaking what so ever. I tried Ginetta GT5, Ginetta Junior and Cayman. GT5 was in the rain on Brands Hatch with zero shake.

I know you said its not a setting problem, so I will not suggest anything there. Did you try to clear system cache? Are you using the Xbox in Power Save or Instant on? What else have you tried?

Also looks like this Patch fixed a wheel shake bug depending on what tires were being chosen on Road cars.

riddlerap
05-06-2018, 03:26
but did they add AI to online championships?

Sankyo
05-06-2018, 07:42
but did they add AI to online championships?

That's not a bug fix but a new feature AFAIK. Adding new features in the game at this stage is very risky, so in general that won't happen.

Smackin Fupas
05-06-2018, 08:02
FFB felt really good. I cannot tell if there was an improvement or not, but everything I drove tonight felt great. I did not have to dial down FF at all on my wheel. I played tonight with no setting changes from what I was running on Patch 5.



I run a Fanatec but I tested anyway. In P, Q, R in career mode, zero shaking what so ever. I tried Ginetta GT5, Ginetta Junior and Cayman. GT5 was in the rain on Brands Hatch with zero shake.

I know you said its not a setting problem, so I will not suggest anything there. Did you try to clear system cache? Are you using the Xbox in Power Save or Instant on? What else have you tried?

Also looks like this Patch fixed a wheel shake bug depending on what tires were being chosen on Road cars.

It might just be the Ginetta juniors in the rain or a damp surface. I had the same problem after patch 5, but haven't had the game long enough to know if it was happening before. Yes I've cleared the cache. I've cleared the Mac address and restarted. I can try turning the Xbox into full shutdown, but I doubt that's going to help.

Maskmagog
05-06-2018, 08:48
I had bad shaking issues with Ginetta JR before, with Thrustmaster TX. After patch 5, it was more or less gone. Knockhill in rain meant some shaking, but still driveable. I've done rain sessions in Ginetta JR career at Donington and Silverstone with no issues whatsoever. Haven't tried patch 6 yet.

DangerDave49
05-06-2018, 12:06
No braking line available on Nordschleife Combined GT3 Lambo in Private Testing.
Tried the BMW and got the same.
Switched to Formula Renault at Red Bull Ring and braking line is ok.

This is on Xbox X using Thrustmaster wheel.

Time trial mode at Nordschleife Combined in BMW M6 GT3 also no driving or braking line available.
Please can anyone else confirm this issue on their system?

Just to confirm, I have Driving Line set to Cornering in options.

Schnizz58
05-06-2018, 15:14
Sounds like I'll have to try it myself when I get home tonight. An easy test is the following. Setup a custom race on a track you're familiar with, with 9 AI cars plus you. Make the conditions easy, warm weather, no rain, etc. Drive several laps and observe overall grip levels. Then exit and setup a new race. Change only the number of cars -- increase them to 19. Re-run the race. Observe if the grip is the same.

ETA: Use a car that has a decent amount of power like a GT3, Lambo ST or similar. You won't see much difference with something like a Ginetta G40 Junior.

It didn't feel like anything was different when I tried it last night so it's my belief that the grid size issue has not yet been addressed. Coming out of the pits I had a good amount of wheel vibration that was identical to how it was before; grip with smaller grids was substantially better than with larger grids.

pferreirag60
05-06-2018, 15:32
Im sure the new consoles will have Zen+ or Zen2 processors and all that will go away :p

So...dont worry :D

taatguna
05-06-2018, 15:40
After this patch, the sensation of speed continues very bad in chase cam compared to PC1.....play PC1 and then PC2 and you know what iam talking about...

Stone Cold Stig
05-06-2018, 16:19
After this patch, the sensation of speed continues very bad in chase cam compared to PC1.....play PC1 and then PC2 and you know what iam talking about...

I know its annoying,but u have to use a keyboard to fine tune your ''view''.
I have no problem with sense of speed whatsoever.

The amount of options we can use use for the various camera views are staggering.
The only issue with using your keyboard however is that none of your settings are saved which means every race u have to repeat the process.

DangerDave49
05-06-2018, 16:46
Time trial mode at Nordschleife Combined in BMW M6 GT3 also no driving or braking line available.
Please can anyone else confirm this issue on their system?

Just to confirm, I have Driving Line set to Cornering in options.

I've just had confirmation that this is happening on my friends system too.

Konan
05-06-2018, 18:49
The only issue with using your keyboard however is that none of your settings are saved which means every race u have to repeat the process.

I thought that was only on pc?
On PS4 i set the view like i wanted and every time i flip to chasecam it stayed ...it's been like that for months now...

grrrillapmp
05-06-2018, 21:45
Was super excited to finally get home and start my career.

Extra disappointed when my wheel started shaking as soon as I was given control out the pit.

Hoping that the next patch sorts it out. Is there a next patch?

Tank621
05-06-2018, 22:13
Was super excited to finally get home and start my career.

Extra disappointed when my wheel started shaking as soon as I was given control out the pit.

Hoping that the next patch sorts it out. Is there a next patch?

Yes we know for definite there will be at least one before the next DLC (probably more) and mpst likely more after that

0netime73
05-06-2018, 22:58
ok so with this patch...driving-wise, nothing feels any different to me( XB1X, G920, AI 100/90). Couple visual improvements (brake/tyre temps), maybe less stuttering in rain, where AI are definitely slower and massive puddles seem rarer. Did hard reset after Patch installation. Lot of chat around tyres feeling better, but I'm not convinced.

Juiced46
05-06-2018, 23:33
Was super excited to finally get home and start my career.

Extra disappointed when my wheel started shaking as soon as I was given control out the pit.

Hoping that the next patch sorts it out. Is there a next patch?


......maybe it is not the patch.......:confused:

grrrillapmp
06-06-2018, 00:34
Yes we know for definite there will be at least one before the next DLC (probably more) and mpst likely more after that

Good to hear, I'll hold out hope.

grrrillapmp
06-06-2018, 00:35
......maybe it is not the patch.......:confused:

I don't think it was the patch, I've always had this issue. Just gotta wait for the next patch I guess.

Juiced46
06-06-2018, 00:46
I don't think it was the patch, I've always had this issue. Just gotta wait for the next patch I guess.

This patch or the next is not going to fix your ongoing problem that you have had in Patch 4, 5 and now 6. Its the fact you will not take advice......

Schnizz58
06-06-2018, 01:40
This patch or the next is not going to fix your ongoing problem that you have had in Patch 4, 5 and now 6. Its the fact you will not take advice......

I don't feel any difference either. Are you saying I should?

Juiced46
06-06-2018, 02:01
I don't feel any difference either. Are you saying I should?

No you shouldn't. Its most likely a wheel or game setting.....I ran the TX on an OG Xbox and had no issues at all once setup correctly, also ran it on an X before upgrading to Fanatec stuff.

In grrillapmps case. He has made multiple threads about his same issue for a few months now. In all of those threads he will not answer questions we ask to try to help him. Then he makes more posts saying he is just waiting for the next patch and says he gave up. But will not take any advice......I have offered to help the guy countless times but he thinks a patch is going to fix his problem when I bet a few setting changes will cure it.

nissan4ever
06-06-2018, 05:09
......maybe it is not the patch.......:confused:

Yup. His wheel settings got to be wrong to the point that it's doing that.

Bealdor
06-06-2018, 06:11
I don't think it was the patch, I've always had this issue. Just gotta wait for the next patch I guess.

Try clearing your XB1 cache, reset your controller settings ingame and try again please.

Ofnir4
06-06-2018, 08:52
Just to report in case though that specific issue was fixed or reduced : There is still a handling/Downforce level difference between private practices and online lobbies, depending on the track length.

Personally at LM I run 1-2 (2014 LMP1) in downforce but have to run 1-1 in lobbies to prevent massive understeer. (and somehow, the lack of rear downforce doesn't create oversteer or spins, so some values are getting mixed up in lobbies)

Sankyo
06-06-2018, 09:32
Just to report in case though that specific issue was fixed or reduced : There is still a handling/Downforce level difference between private practices and online lobbies, depending on the track length.

Personally at LM I run 1-2 (2014 LMP1) in downforce but have to run 1-1 in lobbies to prevent massive understeer. (and somehow, the lack of rear downforce doesn't create oversteer or spins, so some values are getting mixed up in lobbies)
You mention "depending on the track length". Could you elaborate on that?

johnnieshere
06-06-2018, 09:48
Sorry if there is another thread for bug reporting but I found this morning that in custom race no matter what track when using the ginetta g40 junior with 5 laps and 11 opponents there is no sound at all apart from the menu sounds.

Hope someone finds this useful, cheers

Edit: sorry this can be closed, turns out my One X was playing up and just needed turned on and off again...

Ofnir4
06-06-2018, 10:05
The longer (or the heavier I suspect) the track, the more I feel my setup getting understeery compared to private practice or TT. For le Mans, Spa or the nords I usually have to make another setup exclusive to online lobbies to compensate for the increased understeer.

If in private practice my 1-2 (TS040) setup does a 3:23 (le Mans) on a smooth, balanced ride, I know in the lobby I'll get a 2:26 or slower and have to fight the understeer all lap long for that slow lap, if I go to 1-1 in the lobby, it feels exactly like my 1-2 in practice, back to 3:23 or faster.
Then back to practice, the 1-1 feels really identical to the 1-2.

Since the patch, I've run Spa in the 2016 cars, no difference between the 3-4 or 6-8 setup between practice and lobby but at LM, 1-1 (default LM setup) feels good, in the lobby 1-1 is atrociously understeery, and 1-0 is snap oversteer into a spin every time.

The thing is, if the car is balanced at 1-2 but then is also balanced at 1-1 what is the issue ? Wing setting overlap (or a value bug) or simply the lobbies create understeer by themselves to have stability, like the high AI counts ?

At long beach (short but heavy), I could do 1:18 in the AMG, lost a full second in the lobbies for a track that short. I ran 1-4 at first, then realized the rear tyres were scrubbing too much, got to 1-5, felt fine again. In the lobbies I had to go back to 1-4 to get the feel of my 1-5 setup.

On shorter tracks, I know if my private practice setup is balanced it will too in the lobbies if capacity doesn't exceed 14 people (but that is another issue).

I haven't got to changing suspension settings from solo practice to the lobbies yet (too time consuming to create another setup in qualifying) but I probably will because it's like I'm driving different cars.

Shoemaker
06-06-2018, 10:17
Still inconsistency with car handling across different game modes. What a surprise !

GTX BaCoNSauCZ
06-06-2018, 10:24
Great patch and dlc. The online lobby problem with locking the car choice when main host leaves is still there. 2 times I have noticed it now only locks the car if host leaves during a session. If host leaves in the main lobby it seemed to let the new host continue the lobby without locking everyone in 1 car, or am I just seeing things? lol
I also agree with Ofnir4 that values from setups are not carried over from session to session. For me, reloading the setup works most of the time. Other than that, keep the patches and content coming! :-)

TheSimGirl
06-06-2018, 11:29
The longer (or the heavier I suspect) the track, the more I feel my setup getting understeery compared to private practice or TT. For le Mans, Spa or the nords I usually have to make another setup exclusive to online lobbies to compensate for the increased understeer.

If in private practice my 1-2 (TS040) setup does a 3:23 (le Mans) on a smooth, balanced ride, I know in the lobby I'll get a 2:26 or slower and have to fight the understeer all lap long for that slow lap, if I go to 1-1 in the lobby, it feels exactly like my 1-2 in practice, back to 3:23 or faster.
Then back to practice, the 1-1 feels really identical to the 1-2.

Since the patch, I've run Spa in the 2016 cars, no difference between the 3-4 or 6-8 setup between practice and lobby but at LM, 1-1 (default LM setup) feels good, in the lobby 1-1 is atrociously understeery, and 1-0 is snap oversteer into a spin every time.

The thing is, if the car is balanced at 1-2 but then is also balanced at 1-1 what is the issue ? Wing setting overlap (or a value bug) or simply the lobbies create understeer by themselves to have stability, like the high AI counts ?

At long beach (short but heavy), I could do 1:18 in the AMG, lost a full second in the lobbies for a track that short. I ran 1-4 at first, then realized the rear tyres were scrubbing too much, got to 1-5, felt fine again. In the lobbies I had to go back to 1-4 to get the feel of my 1-5 setup.

On shorter tracks, I know if my private practice setup is balanced it will too in the lobbies if capacity doesn't exceed 14 people (but that is another issue).

I haven't got to changing suspension settings from solo practice to the lobbies yet (too time consuming to create another setup in qualifying) but I probably will because it's like I'm driving different cars.

I could be a bit delusional or my thoughts may be deluded, but I assume you realize fuel changes the handling characteristics. Especially for longer races.

A heavier car could lead one to believe they have understeer considering it takes longer to slow a heavier car. If you enter a turn at the same speed as you do with less fuel, you will have understeer considering you are now braking too late.

You've mention "longer" tracks like Lemans. Even a 10 lap race here will require a fuel load that will lead to a different car feel than that of a qualifying fuel load.

Ofnir4
06-06-2018, 12:30
I could be a bit delusional or my thoughts may be deluded, but I assume you realize fuel changes the handling characteristics. Especially for longer races.

A heavier car could lead one to believe they have understeer considering it takes longer to slow a heavier car. If you enter a turn at the same speed as you do with less fuel, you will have understeer considering you are now braking too late.

You've mention "longer" tracks like Lemans. Even a 10 lap race here will require a fuel load that will lead to a different car feel than that of a qualifying fuel load.

Read again please, you must have missed something or assumed something that isn't stated.

Let's go through it so we are clear on the subject :

I compare handling characteristics on identical fuel loads, either a full tank or a 5 laps stint worth of fuel. For the short stint I do an out lap, two flying lap and see how the car behaves.
For a full tank I do a full stint, around 10 laps in the TS040 and see where things stand.
I don't compare apples to oranges, it's on equal fuel load and equal setup in the exact same conditions. The only thing that changes in that test in the game mode.

I only run 2 setups for each car per track, one low fuel and one high fuel, in each session (qualifying or practice) I run both to see what the conditions make of that setup, always.

I mention longer tracks because the bigger the track (or side objects for Monaco and Long beach), the harder it is on the system, fuel depletes on every track, it's not like Sonoma sprint is surrounded by a magical energy field that gives you fuel but not the weight that goes with it and LM has not, morphing my setup into an horrible understeer monster as fuel is burnt.

I have 20K kilometers at LM and 12K in the TS040 alone, I know how my setups behave and when my setups is not yielding the handling it should, no matter the fuel load.

If fuel does lead to understeer as you suggest, it should do so everywhere and on the same level in every game mode the game offers, because it's a sim, we don't expect private practices to be on low gravity on reduced air resistance. This issue for me is exclusive to the online lobbies (because I've not done a solo races in ages, got bored with 15 AI races), which means discrepancies between game modes, not a simple matter of fuel level.

The other aspect is that, if some car have enough "clicks" (level of adjustment for the rear wing) to counter the issue, or hide it somewhat, some don't. The TS050 doesn't seem to have it, if you have crazy understeer in the same conditions and setup that gave you a good lap, it's not even worth staying in the lobby, nothing will fix it in the time you have to qualify.

I'm also glad you can read a signature.

grrrillapmp
06-06-2018, 15:23
Try clearing your XB1 cache, reset your controller settings ingame and try again please.

I did all that before I tried the first time. But I did it again and here is the result...


http://youtu.be/DiPOnZ9jjLM

rmb24
06-06-2018, 15:30
Just heard about this patch yesterday so after i got home i started the download. Havent been on PC2 in the last week or so since i've gotten the TMX thrustmaster wheel. Been playing going back and forth between raceroom and PC2 ( only because its been a long long time since i have been able to get back into PC gaming due to funds ) But i must say i feel more connected to the road than i have before. where as before this patch i would always feel the car was very loose and managed to slide off the track constantly ( mostly high HP cars but thats to be expected when i dont drive them a ton cause they are typically harder for me to handle.. but i like the challenge and i am determined to drive them fast and staying on track.

FFB feels a little less strong so i had to adjust the gain back to 100, and bump the volume from 35 to 50. kept tone and FX at 60. I was only able to run a lap or two at Le Manns with the Ford GT IMSA. Grip felt much better and was able to catch slides that i wasn't able to do before. Since i only got to drive for a lap or 2 because it was pretty late and need to get to bed for work in the AM. I will be looking forward to trying other cars and circuits :D

rmb24
06-06-2018, 15:35
I did all that before I tried the first time. But I did it again and here is the result...


http://youtu.be/DiPOnZ9jjLM


Have you reset all setting back to default and try ? I have the Thrustmaster TMX and i dont have shake like that.

Have you reset all setting back to default and try ? I have the Thrustmaster TMX and i dont have shake like that.

Zaskarspants
06-06-2018, 15:36
[QUOTE=grrrillapmp;1516229]I did all that before I tried the first time. But I did it again and here is the result...

That video is of little use in helping you unless you post your ffb settings.

I watched the video and I am guessing you are perhaps running immersive, if so try informative then raw for a lighter less dramatic presentation. Run fx at 0, anything more is boosting the things you are complaining about.

Your wheel mount also appears to be a bit wobbly.

Also I am sure you are aware that bigger grids an provoke issues on the xb1 so test with lower AI numbers to eliminate that as a cause.

rmb24
06-06-2018, 15:39
[QUOTE=grrrillapmp;1516229]I did all that before I tried the first time. But I did it again and here is the result...

That video is of little use in helping you unless you post your ffb settings.

I watched the video and I am guessing you are perhaps running immersive, if so try informative then raw for a lighter less dramatic presentation. Run fx at 0, anything more is boosting the things you are complaining about.

Your wheel mount also appears to be a bit wobbly.

Also I am sure you are aware that bigger grids an provoke issues on the xb1 so test with lower AI numbers to eliminate that as a cause.


I was gonna say the same thing.. immersive really gives more wheel movement like that. I bounce between informative and immersive.

Juiced46
06-06-2018, 15:55
I did all that before I tried the first time. But I did it again and here is the result...


http://youtu.be/DiPOnZ9jjLM

Set flavor to RAW. Turn gain to 50 and Turn FX down and let us know....

Maskmagog
06-06-2018, 16:19
Drivers, update your Thrustmaster drivers!

My TX was oscillating wildly down Mulsanne (Vintage LM) in every car I tried, with 20 AI. 10 AI was ok.
Then I saw that there are newer drivers available fr TX. I was on firmware 51, the new is firmware 53. So I updated and tried again. Much better!
20 AI was ok, got some shaking when in the middle of the pack down Mulsanne. Even 31 AI was ok, though I got some big shaking at certain parts of Mulsanne. Other parts of the track seemed much better.
This with RAW, 90-40-60-28.

skcusIHC
06-06-2018, 16:25
FFB felt really good. I cannot tell if there was an improvement or not, but everything I drove tonight felt great. I did not have to dial down FF at all on my wheel. I played tonight with no setting changes from what I was running on Patch 5.

Upon further review, it looks like my experience with having to dial Fanatec FFB down was strictly IndyCar. As soon as I got in other cars, it was right back to what I had been running.

Maskmagog
06-06-2018, 19:14
Does the AI seem much less twitchy? I think so, even if Doug said they haven't changed AI behaviour. Seems much better to me anyway :)

One very small thing: I had the 'A' button mapped to 'Look right', which meant that everytime I resumed the game after a pause, by pressing 'A' to start again, the 'Look right' is avtivated, jerking the camera to the right. Don't know what happens if I map 'A' to 'Pit limiter' or something like that.
When I program Arduinos etc, I need to debounce button presses, to stop multiple triggers. Maybe something similar is needed here?
At the moment I'm mostly driving the new LMP1H so I had to map 'A' to KERS, so problem solved right now anyway. :)

Overall seems like a very good patch, well done and thank you!

SRC Brian
06-06-2018, 20:05
Still inconsistency with car handling across different game modes. What a surprise !

Agree. I just ran our next league car fr35 formula Renault round red bull. In time trial I have a 1.17.8 posted, however, in free practice the same set up struggle to get below 1.20. The grip difference is very noticeable. Not the end of the world but all car tunes need to be done on line for now.

Minx
06-06-2018, 21:20
I keep disconnecting from an online race, around when i come out of the pits. Anyone else got this?

Major Epidemic
06-06-2018, 21:46
I did all that before I tried the first time. But I did it again and here is the result...


http://youtu.be/DiPOnZ9jjLM

I have the g920 and do not experience that at all. I am on Xbox x though. I hope you get it sorted mate because its a gem of a game when you do.

DangerDave49
06-06-2018, 22:09
No braking line available on Nordschleife Combined GT3 Lambo in Private Testing.
Tried the BMW and got the same.
Switched to Formula Renault at Red Bull Ring and braking line is ok.

This is on Xbox X using Thrustmaster wheel.

Have I posted this in the wrong thread?
I'm not demanding a fix and I don't think I've been rude.
I would just like to have this issue acknowledged.

Maskmagog
06-06-2018, 22:11
I did all that before I tried the first time. But I did it again and here is the result...

BTW, you can do Druids corner in 3rd gear. I struggled a lot with that corner in my first Ginetta career... :) Quick brake, downshift to 3rd, point the car and power through. Loads of fun!

Schnizz58
06-06-2018, 23:09
BTW, you can do Druids corner in 3rd gear. I struggled a lot with that corner in my first Ginetta career... :) Quick brake, downshift to 3rd, point the car and power through. Loads of fun!

I struggled with that corner at first too. Now it's one of my favorites! But it's a bit tricky.

Sankyo
07-06-2018, 07:26
Have I posted this in the wrong thread?
I'm not demanding a fix and I don't think I've been rude.
I would just like to have this issue acknowledged.

This has been reported to the devs.

transfix
07-06-2018, 11:08
Just chiming in to say how great this game feels with every update. FFB has more detail, Handling improved, Tires, Wet weather, lobbies and so on. Great job guys!!! Love this game more each day ;)

p.s The audio balance is still left weighted but I can live with that.

grrrillapmp
07-06-2018, 11:52
BTW, you can do Druids corner in 3rd gear. I struggled a lot with that corner in my first Ginetta career... :) Quick brake, downshift to 3rd, point the car and power through. Loads of fun!

I don't doubt it. But I gotta wait for the game to work before I can start having fun too. As long as patches are still scheduled I'll maintain hope...

Zaskarspants
07-06-2018, 12:05
I don't doubt it. But I gotta wait for the game to work before I can start having fun too. As long as patches are still scheduled I'll maintain hope...

Your issue with the shaking is an issue that many people on various threads have tried to help you with. I think you will find happiness if you engage fully with those advising you.

I suggest you start one thread, and only post about the issue there and I am sure it will be sorted.

You will not see progress if all you can do is blame the game, look to yourself and others for the solution.

Sarcross
07-06-2018, 12:27
I seem to be having rendering issues post patch. The trees (I assume it's the 3D ones) appear as black pixels but seems to look fine in the rear view mirror. You can imagine how interesting this looks on the Nordschliffe. The pit crews are no longer visible along with the visual cue of where to stop for your pit stop. I had to hope and pray I was stopping at the right box when I ran a career GT3 race at the Bugatti Circuit. The helmet doesn't render in helmet cam anymore and my drivers arms are no longer rendering. I checked the graphics settings and they're the same as they were before the patch. Also I don't think rooster tails in the rain are rendering anymore, I can't recall. Actually, rainfall might not be rendering at all for me. I noticed the drops on my windscreen (specifically the sunshade portion) and had to assume it was getting ready to rain. The track wetness and puddles rendered just fine though.

Maybe not much of a bug but something that may be worth looking into. Lapped traffic is a bit silly when trying to get out of the way. They tend to stay on the racing line on a straight, in the corners it looks like they try to get off the line but then they'll veer back into the middle of the line right in front of you. Going into the Dunlop bridge at the Bugatti Circuit the other day I was in the GT3 NSX lapping an AMG GT3. It went to the right, off line and off circuit, then right as I was entering the apex it came directly into my line kind of like you'd expect with childish racers online.

And one last thing, the AI during formation laps. They seem to like crashing into you in S3 when its just about time to form 2 columns. I wound up with 15 seconds worth of time penalties due to contact from the 2nd place driver.

Tom Curtis
07-06-2018, 16:19
I seem to be having rendering issues post patch. The trees (I assume it's the 3D ones) appear as black pixels but seems to look fine in the rear view mirror. You can imagine how interesting this looks on the Nordschliffe. The pit crews are no longer visible along with the visual cue of where to stop for your pit stop. I had to hope and pray I was stopping at the right box when I ran a career GT3 race at the Bugatti Circuit. The helmet doesn't render in helmet cam anymore and my drivers arms are no longer rendering. I checked the graphics settings and they're the same as they were before the patch. Also I don't think rooster tails in the rain are rendering anymore, I can't recall. Actually, rainfall might not be rendering at all for me. I noticed the drops on my windscreen (specifically the sunshade portion) and had to assume it was getting ready to rain. The track wetness and puddles rendered just fine though.

Maybe not much of a bug but something that may be worth looking into. Lapped traffic is a bit silly when trying to get out of the way. They tend to stay on the racing line on a straight, in the corners it looks like they try to get off the line but then they'll veer back into the middle of the line right in front of you. Going into the Dunlop bridge at the Bugatti Circuit the other day I was in the GT3 NSX lapping an AMG GT3. It went to the right, off line and off circuit, then right as I was entering the apex it came directly into my line kind of like you'd expect with childish racers online.

And one last thing, the AI during formation laps. They seem to like crashing into you in S3 when its just about time to form 2 columns. I wound up with 15 seconds worth of time penalties due to contact from the 2nd place driver.
I'm seeing none of this here on my XB1. Can you chuck a screenie please? Were you in qualifying or practice in that race where the pit crew were not there?

Are you sure your settings haven't changed in the options?

GamePlay - On Screen Guides & Display.
Check Cockpit Wheel/Driver = On
Check Pit Stop Visual Cue = On

Camera - Movement
Check Show Helmet = Yes

Juiced46
07-06-2018, 22:33
Your issue with the shaking is an issue that many people on various threads have tried to help you with. I think you will find happiness if you engage fully with those advising you.

I suggest you start one thread, and only post about the issue there and I am sure it will be sorted.

You will not see progress if all you can do is blame the game, look to yourself and others for the solution.

We are beating a dead horse with this guy. He just REFUSES to take the advice we have gave him and just "waits" for a patch which is not going to fix his issue. His issue can be fixed answering a few of our questions and trying a few of our suggestions. Probably will take all of 15 mins to figure out.

Sarcross
09-06-2018, 03:32
I'm seeing none of this here on my XB1. Can you chuck a screenie please? Were you in qualifying or practice in that race where the pit crew were not there?

Are you sure your settings haven't changed in the options?

GamePlay - On Screen Guides & Display.
Check Cockpit Wheel/Driver = On
Check Pit Stop Visual Cue = On

Camera - Movement
Check Show Helmet = Yes
Practice, Qualifying, and Race. No change to any of my HUD settings since a month or two after the game came out. I can live without the helmet and driver rendering, and the tree pixelation I can more or less ignore but the pit crew thing has me staying away from my GT3 career for now. I snapped a few pics from The Ring but the tree issue has held true for other tracks as well - it looks tied to the 3D trees.

255829255830255831255832
V6.0.0.0.1056

Maskmagog
09-06-2018, 06:51
Wow, never seen trees like that on my OG Xbox. Reminds me of good old Pole Position on Atari.

APR193
09-06-2018, 12:42
Has anyone else noticed when the ai is leading that they slow down? Every track/car class combo I've tried if an ai car is in the lead that car will go 1 - 4 seconds a lap slower, but speed up when no longer in the lead. Has anyone else, on xbox or otherwise has the same since patch 6??

Oh and message to the moderators, I won't be posting this in every thread, just wanted to post it here as well as the general ai thread as I try to determine if this is an issue for everyone, just xbox users or just me.

Sarcross
09-06-2018, 15:12
Wow, never seen trees like that on my OG Xbox. Reminds me of good old Pole Position on Atari.
Not the worst place to draw inspiration from.

Konan
09-06-2018, 15:14
Oh and message to the moderators, I won't be posting this in every thread, just wanted to post it here as well as the general ai thread as I try to determine if this is an issue for everyone, just xbox users or just me.

No problem...

chastewand
09-06-2018, 15:35
Has anyone else noticed when the ai is leading that they slow down? Every track/car class combo I've tried if an ai car is in the lead that car will go 1 - 4 seconds a lap slower, but speed up when no longer in the lead. Has anyone else, on xbox or otherwise has the same since patch 6??

Oh and message to the moderators, I won't be posting this in every thread, just wanted to post it here as well as the general ai thread as I try to determine if this is an issue for everyone, just xbox users or just me.

Yes, that's my experience too. Gives the impression of rubber-banding but the devs have said there is no rubber-banding. If the player takes the lead the AI will drive considerably faster, if not it's often the mid pack that set the fastest lap of the race. Gaps between AI cars get closed quickly if they make mistakes and the "train" forms up again, it is very rare that gaps between cars at the end of a race are greater than 1 second. Not very true to real life in my opinion.

This has always been the case in my experience on the xbox one x. Have only had the game since just before patch 5.

APR193
09-06-2018, 16:26
Yes, that's my experience too. Gives the impression of rubber-banding but the devs have said there is no rubber-banding. If the player takes the lead the AI will drive considerably faster, if not it's often the mid pack that set the fastest lap of the race. Gaps between AI cars get closed quickly if they make mistakes and the "train" forms up again, it is very rare that gaps between cars at the end of a race are greater than 1 second. Not very true to real life in my opinion.

This has always been the case in my experience on the xbox one x. Have only had the game since just before patch 5.

I've been playing since I got my X in November so maybe patch 2 maybe even 1, and have never experienced this until now. I did a VPB race at Brands Hatch GP the day before patch 6 was available and didn't run into this

Zaskarspants
09-06-2018, 17:38
Yes, that's my experience too. Gives the impression of rubber-banding but the devs have said there is no rubber-banding. If the player takes the lead the AI will drive considerably faster, if not it's often the mid pack that set the fastest lap of the race. Gaps between AI cars get closed quickly if they make mistakes and the "train" forms up again, it is very rare that gaps between cars at the end of a race are greater than 1 second. Not very true to real life in my opinion.

This has always been the case in my experience on the xbox one x. Have only had the game since just before patch 5.

I don't have anything like this. I race the AI exclusively and I have reflected but I just don't see this. If anything I have often felt the opposite, that the car you finally overtake after a battle drops back slightly. I have not noticed any change in the behavior of the AI since the patch.

edit - There have not been any AI changes so I think you may be over thinking this a bit maybe?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?63504-PC-Patch-6-0-Discussion-thread&p=1516086&viewfull=1#post1516086

APR193
09-06-2018, 17:57
I don't have anything like this. I race the AI exclusively and I have reflected but I just don't see this. If anything I have often felt the opposite, that the car you finally overtake after a battle drops back slightly. I have not noticed any change in the behavior of the AI since the patch.

edit - There have not been any AI changes so I think you may be over thinking this a bit maybe?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?63504-PC-Patch-6-0-Discussion-thread&p=1516086&viewfull=1#post1516086

I saw that there were no ai changes which is what is confusing me. I haven't experienced this before patch 6. I don't believe there is some form of intentional rubber banding, but the ai pace is consistently affected by them being in the lead of the race, and for me this is spoiling the whole experience. As I said I had none of this the day before patch 6.

Konan
09-06-2018, 19:08
No changes to the AI's behaviour doesn't necessarily mean nothing has changed in total...

APR193
09-06-2018, 19:59
No changes to the AI's behaviour doesn't necessarily mean nothing has changed in total...

This is the kind of statement that makes people looking in from the other side think you're all crazy ;)

Whatever is the cause hopefully it can be pinpointed soon. Happy to test stuff out if needed

Schnizz58
09-06-2018, 20:25
No changes to the AI's behaviour doesn't necessarily mean nothing has changed in total...

It was my understanding that Doug is more or less continuously fine-tuning AI behavior in various classes and at various tracks.

Konan
09-06-2018, 20:38
It was my understanding that Doug is more or less continuously fine-tuning AI behavior in various classes and at various tracks.

He is..there are other things that can be tweaked on AI than behaviour alone...not saying there has been,just saying there could have been...

Konan
09-06-2018, 20:40
This is the kind of statement that makes people looking in from the other side think you're all crazy ;)

Whatever is the cause hopefully it can be pinpointed soon. Happy to test stuff out if needed

FYI...i AM crazy...:p

APR193
09-06-2018, 21:02
I appreciate it is a weekend and therefore am not expecting word on this from anyone for at least a few days, but has the issue I have raised been passed on to the devs Konan?

At the moment I'm refusing to believe it is a wide spread issue as I can't believe others wouldn't be mentioning it from other platforms (no one has from what I've seen), but it also seems like it would be a weird problem to be affecting one player? Nornally that would be some form of corrupt file leading to game freezes, stuff like that??

I'm happy to test different scenarios (I've detailed what I've tried in the 'On the topic of AI' thread), delete my save data, unistall / reinstall etc etc. Anything that helps.

Konan
09-06-2018, 21:39
I appreciate it is a weekend and therefore am not expecting word on this from anyone for at least a few days, but has the issue I have raised been passed on to the devs Konan?

At the moment I'm refusing to believe it is a wide spread issue as I can't believe others wouldn't be mentioning it from other platforms (no one has from what I've seen), but it also seems like it would be a weird problem to be affecting one player? Nornally that would be some form of corrupt file leading to game freezes, stuff like that??

I'm happy to test different scenarios (I've detailed what I've tried in the 'On the topic of AI' thread), delete my save data, unistall / reinstall etc etc. Anything that helps.

As with all patch releases,the devs monitor several threads...since (for now) you are the only one who has reported this it might well be something on your end.
So if any Xbox users could give some advice that would be highly appreciated :yes:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1517560&viewfull=1#post1517560

APR193
09-06-2018, 22:02
As with all patch releases,the devs monitor several threads...since (for now) you are the only one who has reported this it might well be something on your end.
So if any Xbox users could give some advice that would be highly appreciated :yes:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1517560&viewfull=1#post1517560

As I'm the only one who's reported it I'll try deleting my save data in the morning to try and make sure its not just me. I only play custom events so have no progression or anything to lose.

Schnizz58
09-06-2018, 22:23
He is..there are other things that can be tweaked on AI than behaviour alone...not saying there has been,just saying there could have been...

I'm not talking about those other things. It was said that there have not been any changes to the AI and I don't think that's true.

Konan
09-06-2018, 22:32
I'm not talking about those other things. It was said that there have not been any changes to the AI and I don't think that's true.

It was said there were no changes to the AI "behaviour"
That's completely different to "not any AI changes"
Like i said that still doesn't mean changes were made but if you look at it like that there is a possibility there were...

But i could also be seeimg way too much into that statement though...:cool:

Schnizz58
10-06-2018, 00:03
Well thanks for clearing that up.

https://media.giphy.com/media/UvwI1X7XkbXq0/200.gif

APR193
10-06-2018, 10:16
As I'm the only one who's reported it I'll try deleting my save data in the morning to try and make sure its not just me. I only play custom events so have no progression or anything to lose.

I've deleted my save file and reinstalled the game but am still experiencing the same problems.

Zaskarspants
10-06-2018, 12:20
I've deleted my save file and reinstalled the game but am still experiencing the same problems.

You perhaps should consider that our subjective experience of the game when interacting with the AI will vary widely as the major variable in that exchange is not the AI but us, you and me, the fallible variable humans.

This may explain why it is something only few see.

APR193
10-06-2018, 13:15
You perhaps should consider that our subjective experience of the game when interacting with the AI will vary widely as the major variable in that exchange is not the AI but us, you and me, the fallible variable humans.

This may explain why it is something only few see.

But its not something I have experienced before, and its something that I can't not experience since patch 6, it happens every race. If an ai car is leading the race, that ai car will then lap slower than it could/should/would be otherwise. How much slower varies per track and seemingly class. VPA at Brands Hatch seems to be about 2.5 seconds. VPA at Monza seems to be about a second. GTO at Brands Hatch seems to be closer to 4 seconds. GT3 at Imola is about 2.5 seconds.

If I overtake the leading ai car and increase the pace, the ai car that was leading then increases its pace (to what it 'should' be, not necessarily to what I am doing, so not suggesting rubber banding). If I then pull over and let them back through they slow down again. If I slow down / block the car in second to create clean air behind the leader then let him past, he'll going considerably faster (depending on track) than the leader until he catches him. If I force the leader wide so the guy in second takes over at the front, the car now leading slows down and the car no longer leading speeds up (where clear air allows them to do so anyway).

In a race with a mandatory pitstop, if an ai driver pits early their pace increases ( due to no longer being stuck in the pack behind the slow leader). That is until everyone else pits and they take the lead, instantly lapping slower when they do so.

I've tried to test as much as I can to try and convince myself I was imagining it but everything I try points to an ai car leading the race going slower than they could / should / would be otherwise.

I'll see if I can get some testing in later today and post some evidence of what I am experiencing, if nothing else just to prove I'm not a rambling madman :p

I should also add that if I retire at the start and watch on the monitor in the pits this still happens, so nothing to do with me being on track / near the leader. This also only affects an ai car if it is leading the race. 2nd back to 32nd, as well as leaders in other classes aren't affected (except for being stuck behind the leader). Number of cars on track also isn't a factor, happens with 32 cars and 2 cars.

I'm not sure what people who don't own a certain game get from going to forums decidated to those games and spreading false accusations of bugs and errors etc etc, and I realise it looks odd me being the only one affected / noticing this, but I'm absolutely genuine. Not trying to waste anyone's time or anything like that, just hoping to be able to enjoy my favourite game as much as I could just over a week ago.

OddTimer
10-06-2018, 13:47
But its not something I have experienced before, and its something that I can't not experience since patch 6, it happens every race. If an ai car is leading the race, that ai car will then lap slower than it could/should/would be otherwise. How much slower varies per track and seemingly class. VPA at Brands Hatch seems to be about 2.5 seconds. VPA at Monza seems to be about a second. GTO at Brands Hatch seems to be closer to 4 seconds. GT3 at Imola is about 2.5 seconds.

If I overtake the leading ai car and increase the pace, the ai car that was leading then increases its pace (to what it 'should' be, not necessarily to what I am doing, so not suggesting rubber banding). If I then pull over and let them back through they slow down again. If I slow down / block the car in second to create clean air behind the leader then let him past, he'll going considerably faster (depending on track) than the leader until he catches him. If I force the leader wide so the guy in second takes over at the front, the car now leading slows down and the car no longer leading speeds up (where clear air allows them to do so anyway).

In a race with a mandatory pitstop, if an ai driver pits early their pace increases ( due to no longer being stuck in the pack behind the slow leader). That is until everyone else pits and they take the lead, instantly lapping slower when they do so.

I've tried to test as much as I can to try and convince myself I was imagining it but everything I try points to an ai car leading the race going slower than they could / should / would be otherwise.

I'll see if I can get some testing in later today and post some evidence of what I am experiencing, if nothing else just to prove I'm not a rambling madman :p

I should also add that if I retire at the start and watch on the monitor in the pits this still happens, so nothing to do with me being on track / near the leader. This also only affects an ai car if it is leading the race. 2nd back to 32nd, as well as leaders in other classes aren't affected (except for being stuck behind the leader). Number of cars on track also isn't a factor, happens with 32 cars and 2 cars.

I'm not sure what people who don't own a certain game get from going to forums decidated to those games and spreading false accusations of bugs and errors etc etc, and I realise it looks odd me being the only one affected / noticing this, but I'm absolutely genuine. Not trying to waste anyone's time or anything like that, just hoping to be able to enjoy my favourite game as much as I could just over a week ago.

I did 10 laps at Zolder in the McLaren gt3 yesterday. I lead the entire race. Doing my best laps I would pull away from second. Ok laptimes saw me match 2nd places's pace.

sidy
10-06-2018, 13:53
Sometimes I play with a gamepad. There are no vibrations in the tarmac ride, only on the curbs or on the sand or when braking. PC1 makes me feel much better with the gamepad. And, why no triggers vibrations?

APR193
10-06-2018, 13:53
I did 10 laps at Zolder in the McLaren gt3 yesterday. I lead the entire race. Doing my best laps I would pull away from second. Ok laptimes saw me match 2nd places's pace.

That's not the issue I am facing though. It is when an ai car is leading, not when I am leading. If I am leading everything is as it 'should be' as you've described

chastewand
10-06-2018, 20:39
I don't have anything like this. I race the AI exclusively and I have reflected but I just don't see this. If anything I have often felt the opposite, that the car you finally overtake after a battle drops back slightly. I have not noticed any change in the behavior of the AI since the patch.

edit - There have not been any AI changes so I think you may be over thinking this a bit maybe?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?63504-PC-Patch-6-0-Discussion-thread&p=1516086&viewfull=1#post1516086

This has been happening for me ever since I had the game (just before patch 5 was released. I too race against the AI only. It's not always the case but I have only been racing in career and to date have not progressed any further than than GT4, but have raced pretty much all the lower formulas except carts.

Maskmagog
10-06-2018, 21:24
Much faster in Quick Race with full grid

I was doing some testing to see if full grids were possible on the OG Xbox (cheers for continuing to improve this). But I did not expect to be a lot faster with a full grid.
I did 4 quick races. Formula C, loose setup (did change tires to Sport, as the Slicks were not good at all), Brno. Now it's been a while since I drove this, and I never was any good, but anyway:

All races AI 75/70. In all races I let the AI drive off into the sunset (well a few corners) before I started driving.

1st race: 10 AI. Did 3 laps. Lap 2-3 I did low 2.14. Car felt ok.
2nd race: Max AI (25). Lap 2 & 3 I did 2.09.5. Car felt better, more grip, could carry more speed, easier to turn into corners. I wasn't trying harder, and they were not great laps. I just effortlessly was much faster.
3rd race: 8 AI. 4 laps, between 2.12-2.13. Could not go faster. Less grip than 2nd race, less speed.
4th race: Max AI (25). 2 laps, and I easily did 2.10. As in 2nd race, more grip, more speed, more of everything :)

I do have vrHive telemetry for the above, if there's something I should look for there. But there was a distinct change with a full grid. Everything felt better, and faster, and easier.

My theory is that it's related to tweaking the stepdown to 400Hz tick for the OG Xbox. Before, it made car handling worse. Now they've changed it, but there's still errors, only now it makes the car/grip/speed better?

Can anybody else try this?


Edit: A quick look at the telemetry showed differences in tyre wear.
In race 1 & 3, the slow races with low AI numbers show FL wear at 4. The rest were FR 3, RL 2, RR 1. This at end of lap 2.
Race 2 & 4, the fast races with max grid showed tyre wear zero for all tyres at end of lap 2.

Tom Curtis
11-06-2018, 11:38
Practice, Qualifying, and Race. No change to any of my HUD settings since a month or two after the game came out. I can live without the helmet and driver rendering, and the tree pixelation I can more or less ignore but the pit crew thing has me staying away from my GT3 career for now. I snapped a few pics from The Ring but the tree issue has held true for other tracks as well - it looks tied to the 3D trees.

255829255830255831255832
V6.0.0.0.1056

Wow, that is sub optimal. Never seen anything like this. The only thing I can suggest here is to uninstall and then reinstall, to me it looks like a messed up install on the HDD which is causing this.

One other question, are you on an external or internal drive?

LukeC1991
11-06-2018, 16:13
Not sure if this is a patch 6.0 problem or a Spirit of Le Mans problem, but after completing qualifying and going to start the race all of the grid positions were reset. I was doing a multi class race at vintage Le Mans with Group 5, Group 6 and Group 4 cars. I was driving in Group 5 and I qualified in 1st place over all, not just 1st in my class, 1st over all. When starting the race it had me in 12th and the grid was just all the Group 6 cars in a random order, then Group 5 and then Group 6. I've never known this to happen before, I always thought you could out qualify other classes of cars and start in front of them.

Tom Curtis
11-06-2018, 16:35
Not sure if this is a patch 6.0 problem or a Spirit of Le Mans problem, but after completing qualifying and going to start the race all of the grid positions were reset. I was doing a multi class race at vintage Le Mans with Group 5, Group 6 and Group 4 cars. I was driving in Group 5 and I qualified in 1st place over all, not just 1st in my class, 1st over all. When starting the race it had me in 12th and the grid was just all the Group 6 cars in a random order, then Group 5 and then Group 6. I've never known this to happen before, I always thought you could out qualify other classes of cars and start in front of them.

Nope this is the way it's always worked, it groups the classes with the fastest class at the front.

Sarcross
11-06-2018, 23:45
That's not the issue I am facing though. It is when an ai car is leading, not when I am leading. If I am leading everything is as it 'should be' as you've described
It almost sounds like the AI is following lapped traffic behavior where they take corners way below speed to allow faster traffic to pass. I'm not sure what would cause that though.

Wow, that is sub optimal. Never seen anything like this. The only thing I can suggest here is to uninstall and then reinstall, to me it looks like a messed up install on the HDD which is causing this.

One other question, are you on an external or internal drive?
I was afraid someone was going to suggest that lol. Internal hard drive. The only thing I can think of that may have caused it is that I started up the game before the update finished downloading (Xbox's "Ready to Start" lie). I did that around 88% complete. I suppose I can give a reinstall a go at some point this week and see if that fixes things.

APR193
12-06-2018, 06:43
It almost sounds like the AI is following lapped traffic behavior where they take corners way below speed to allow faster traffic to pass. I'm not sure what would cause that though.

Yeah its strange. As I've said they continue to go flat out on the straights, its the corners where they are losing time. Its almost like an out lap during practice/qualy, just not as exaggerated. I should be able to get on tonight to post some photos of evidence of what I am experiencing, but other than that I don't know what else I can do at this point.

APR193
12-06-2018, 12:15
Out of curiosity before I can get on tonight and test, is anyone else running 100% aggression for the ai? Its the only thing I can think of I haven't tried changing to overcome my issue of the ai leading the race slowing down. I ran 100 aggression before patch 6 and had no issues, but I'll still try changing that before I post some photos of what is occurring.

Zaskarspants
12-06-2018, 12:27
I think you need to record a whole race to gain any traction with your problem.

Just Another Frog
12-06-2018, 13:12
Sometimes I play with a gamepad. There are no vibrations in the tarmac ride, only on the curbs or on the sand or when braking. PC1 makes me feel much better with the gamepad.

Agreed. It's quite difficult to measure levels of grip when entering or exiting corners because the controller vibration isn't really giving any clues. Also, during spins (accidents or loss of control) vibration seems to completely shut down.

Smackin Fupas
15-06-2018, 01:05
Well, I've tried everything from clearing the cache, full shutdown on the xbox after I play each time, tried endless amounts of settings, and I still have the wheel shake. I have a Thrustmaster TMX. I know everybodys been trying to help, but nothing has worked. I've turned fx all the way to 0 and turned the gain down to 20 also and it still shakes. I've also tried raw, immersive, and informative. About 10 of us ran a 2.5 hour race at Nurburgring and it was dry conditions and the wheel shake was so bad, I couldn't even finish the race. Others had the same problem with different wheels in that race too.

Sarcross
15-06-2018, 02:43
Wow, that is sub optimal. Never seen anything like this. The only thing I can suggest here is to uninstall and then reinstall, to me it looks like a messed up install on the HDD which is causing this.

One other question, are you on an external or internal drive?
Reinstall fixed all rendering issues.

V1cks
19-06-2018, 13:38
Well, I've tried everything from clearing the cache, full shutdown on the xbox after I play each time, tried endless amounts of settings, and I still have the wheel shake. I have a Thrustmaster TMX. I know everybodys been trying to help, but nothing has worked. I've turned fx all the way to 0 and turned the gain down to 20 also and it still shakes. I've also tried raw, immersive, and informative. About 10 of us ran a 2.5 hour race at Nurburgring and it was dry conditions and the wheel shake was so bad, I couldn't even finish the race. Others had the same problem with different wheels in that race too.

I have the OG Xbox and also a Thrustmaster TMX and find that lots of wheel shaking was eliminated with the last patch.
Can we share our FFB settings for that particular wheel model and test them on same track,car, conditions?

I'm curious to test different things to see if I can improve the experience on Pcars!
:)

Smackin Fupas
24-06-2018, 17:09
I have the OG Xbox and also a Thrustmaster TMX and find that lots of wheel shaking was eliminated with the last patch.
Can we share our FFB settings for that particular wheel model and test them on same track,car, conditions?

I'm curious to test different things to see if I can improve the experience on Pcars!
:)

I run informative 90/50/50. It happens in the Ginetta junior on any track that has rain. Knockhill is the worst

Juiced46
24-06-2018, 23:17
I have the OG Xbox and also a Thrustmaster TMX and find that lots of wheel shaking was eliminated with the last patch.
Can we share our FFB settings for that particular wheel model and test them on same track,car, conditions?

I'm curious to test different things to see if I can improve the experience on Pcars!
:)

There are TONS of threads about your exact issue. Alot of really good suggestions. Just search. Its all there.

Smackin Fupas
25-06-2018, 01:07
There are TONS of threads about your exact issue. Alot of really good suggestions. Just search. Its all there.

I've been through all the threads and none of it has worked. I've tried everything that anybody has said to do and I still have wheel shake problems. I don't really even let it bother me that there's still issues with the game. I have my group of people that I race with and I go online from time to time and that's it. If I get wheel shake, I just go and play something else. F it.

Maskmagog
25-06-2018, 08:59
Update drivers to v53 if you have a Thrustmaster. Always do a full powerdown of xbox by pressing xbox button on console for 10 sec. An uninstall/reinstall of the game helped me (I kept the cloud save). Only real shaking issue post patch 6 was Ginetta JR, Knockhill in rain. OTOH, Ginetta JR in rain at Donington and Silverstone was perfect. So it has improved a lot for me.

Smackin Fupas
25-06-2018, 16:39
Update drivers to v53 if you have a Thrustmaster. Always do a full powerdown of xbox by pressing xbox button on console for 10 sec. An uninstall/reinstall of the game helped me (I kept the cloud save). Only real shaking issue post patch 6 was Ginetta JR, Knockhill in rain. OTOH, Ginetta JR in rain at Donington and Silverstone was perfect. So it has improved a lot for me.

The TMX is V7. The TX is V53.

APR193
01-07-2018, 16:27
Apologies for not posting this sooner after bringing up the issues I was having with the leading ai lapping slower than when not leading (haven't had the time lately), and also apologies that these images are taken with a mobile phone :p

I did a 10 lap race at Brands Hatch GP in VPA. Cut the ai to 2 ai cars so it was easier for me to hold up each car when I wanted (to illustrate the issues I am having) without causing accidents with other ai cars. Ai settings were 118/100.

Firstly I let the two ai cars have a crack at qualifying. I know single lap doesn't = race pace but it was just to show what lap times they were capable of, which ai was the faster, the gap between the two etc.

Results of qualifying : 257021

I then let the ai have a few laps at the start of the race to get settled in, see what lap times they were capable of etc. As you can see below around 2.5 seconds slower than qualifying. Race pace before patch 6 was never as fast as qualy pace (as it should be) but I never had that big a difference.

257022

As you can also see the two ai cars swapped positions at turn 1, so the 'slower' ai driver was now in the lead. This could explain the slower pace, so I got between the two ai cars and as good as stopped in front of the guy in second, creating about a 4 second gap between the two. I then let the 2nd place car through to see what times he could do in clear air, which you can see below. As you can see the 2nd place car now goes 2 seconds a lap faster when in clear air. Worth noting that the leaders pace has already dropped by about half a second, so potentially at the start of the race this could have been 2.5 seconds faster.

257023

You could however argue that the leading car is simply the slower car (as shown in qualy), therefore the pace difference between leader / non leader is simply the difference in ai ability. So I blocked the leading ai, ran him way wide and let the 2nd place car through, again creating about a 4 seconds gap between the ai cars, which are now the other way around.

257024

As you can see above, the car now leading suddenly starts lapping 2 seconds slower, and the car no longer leading suddenly goes around 1.6 seconds faster per lap.

This is consistent with what I am experiencing across all tracks / classes, although seemingly tracks with less corners aren't affected as much. The ai still nail it on the straights, its the corners and it seems heavy braking zones where they are slow. The braking zone into Druids at Brands Hatch they can lose over half a second when in the lead.

Few things to note. This only affects the overall leading car. In multiclass races the leading car in class 2/3/4 drive at their full potential, its only the overall leading car that slows down. I've tried reinstalling, clearing my save data, changing ai settings etc etc and I always get the same results. I haven't experienced this at all before patch 6, and as I say it is now affecting all classes and tracks.

Its leading to terrible races, to the point I wasn't able to enjoy one race in the few days I was able to play a fair amount after patch 6 dropped. Races were just a long train of cars stuck behind the leader going between 1 and 3 seconds (varies per car / track) off the pace. If I had the ai setting just right for qualy, I'd be much faster than the ai in the race, until I took the lead and they'd speed up. If they got back past me they'd basically stop in front of me and I'd be back past within a corner or two. On the flipside to get the ai pace right for the race I need to be 1 - 3 seconds off in qualy, but that is only the right setting for the race if I'm not in the lead.

APR193
04-07-2018, 12:21
Apologies for not posting this sooner after bringing up the issues I was having with the leading ai lapping slower than when not leading (haven't had the time lately), and also apologies that these images are taken with a mobile phone :p

I did a 10 lap race at Brands Hatch GP in VPA. Cut the ai to 2 ai cars so it was easier for me to hold up each car when I wanted (to illustrate the issues I am having) without causing accidents with other ai cars. Ai settings were 118/100.

Firstly I let the two ai cars have a crack at qualifying. I know single lap doesn't = race pace but it was just to show what lap times they were capable of, which ai was the faster, the gap between the two etc.

Results of qualifying : 257021

I then let the ai have a few laps at the start of the race to get settled in, see what lap times they were capable of etc. As you can see below around 2.5 seconds slower than qualifying. Race pace before patch 6 was never as fast as qualy pace (as it should be) but I never had that big a difference.

257022

As you can also see the two ai cars swapped positions at turn 1, so the 'slower' ai driver was now in the lead. This could explain the slower pace, so I got between the two ai cars and as good as stopped in front of the guy in second, creating about a 4 second gap between the two. I then let the 2nd place car through to see what times he could do in clear air, which you can see below. As you can see the 2nd place car now goes 2 seconds a lap faster when in clear air. Worth noting that the leaders pace has already dropped by about half a second, so potentially at the start of the race this could have been 2.5 seconds faster.

257023

You could however argue that the leading car is simply the slower car (as shown in qualy), therefore the pace difference between leader / non leader is simply the difference in ai ability. So I blocked the leading ai, ran him way wide and let the 2nd place car through, again creating about a 4 seconds gap between the ai cars, which are now the other way around.

257024

As you can see above, the car now leading suddenly starts lapping 2 seconds slower, and the car no longer leading suddenly goes around 1.6 seconds faster per lap.

This is consistent with what I am experiencing across all tracks / classes, although seemingly tracks with less corners aren't affected as much. The ai still nail it on the straights, its the corners and it seems heavy braking zones where they are slow. The braking zone into Druids at Brands Hatch they can lose over half a second when in the lead.

Few things to note. This only affects the overall leading car. In multiclass races the leading car in class 2/3/4 drive at their full potential, its only the overall leading car that slows down. I've tried reinstalling, clearing my save data, changing ai settings etc etc and I always get the same results. I haven't experienced this at all before patch 6, and as I say it is now affecting all classes and tracks.

Its leading to terrible races, to the point I wasn't able to enjoy one race in the few days I was able to play a fair amount after patch 6 dropped. Races were just a long train of cars stuck behind the leader going between 1 and 3 seconds (varies per car / track) off the pace. If I had the ai setting just right for qualy, I'd be much faster than the ai in the race, until I took the lead and they'd speed up. If they got back past me they'd basically stop in front of me and I'd be back past within a corner or two. On the flipside to get the ai pace right for the race I need to be 1 - 3 seconds off in qualy, but that is only the right setting for the race if I'm not in the lead.

Anyone experiencing something similar? This is really stopping me from enjoying the game at all. I haven't spent much time on the forums lately, has anyone reported something similar elsewhere? Surely I can't be the only one?

chastewand
05-07-2018, 13:57
I have posted about this before but no-one seems to think it's an issue. I am with you on this, it's what happens in 99% of the races I do. Spoils the game in my opinion, it's almost like rubber-banding. The AI always close gaps to the car in front and the race always ends up like a train. The only way for the AI to set competitive lap times in a race (sometimes exceeding quali lap times) is for the player to be in the lead, or as you observed, race in a lower class multi-class event. I wish this would be sorted out...

APR193
06-07-2018, 17:59
I think I'll check back on the game when the next patch comes out but for now it is entirely unenjoyable. The one thing I haven't tried is career mode, so I'll give that a go to see if it is a custom event issue for me.

jonathan276
22-07-2018, 19:23
Violent wheel shake with G920 on Xbox one when playing in career or quick race mode. No FFB problems in solo private testing

Mahjik
22-07-2018, 20:41
It's likely due to the number of cars on track. There is a known issue with the standard XBox One (non X version) behaving oddly when there is a large number of AI on the grid.