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shadybrady
18-06-2018, 23:28
I don't really tune cars, and don't know how. I can drive the crap out of them, but I wasn't born in the 70's or 80's. I don't know what any of that stuff is. I would have thought the engineer would have remedied this, but unfortunately that's not the case. I can pick just about any track in this game, and sort the leader boards out by car. I can hop in that car, and lap until I get as close to perfect as I can. I have noticed that on every single leader board there are two clusters of times. And the gap between the clusters seems consistent every time. There will be a group or 4 or 5 guys who might get a (4:02, 4.03, 4.06), and then a following group of guys in the same car getting (4:34, 4:35, 4:37). This is clearly tuning. This is what I hate about racing games. There's always these secrets in the tuning that some guys know, and some guys don't, and they get separated on the leader boards, regardless of how well they can drive the cars. It's extremely frustrating because it's not fair. The engineer doesn't help me almost most of the time. Sometimes it will ask me if I'm having trouble hitting my cars top speed, I will say yes, and it will tell me my car doesn't have the functionality required to change this setting? So how are people getting that car to hit the top speed??? All of this has made me poopoo the leader boards because I don't actually view the boards as the best drivers anymore. It's more like a group of guys who know how to tune the car to drive faster.

sirio994
18-06-2018, 23:36
I don't really tune cars, and don't know how. I can drive the crap out of them, but I wasn't born in the 70's or 80's. I don't know what any of that stuff is. I would have thought the engineer would have remedied this, but unfortunately that's not the case. I can pick just about any track in this game, and sort the leader boards out by car. I can hop in that car, and lap until I get as close to perfect as I can. I have noticed that on every single leader board there are two clusters of times. And the gap between the clusters seems consistent every time. There will be a group or 4 or 5 guys who might get a (4:02, 4.03, 4.06), and then a following group of guys in the same car getting (4:34, 4:35, 4:37). This is clearly tuning. This is what I hate about racing games. There's always these secrets in the tuning that some guys know, and some guys don't, and they get separated on the leader boards, regardless of how well they can drive the cars. It's extremely frustrating because it's not fair. The engineer doesn't help me almost most of the time. Sometimes it will ask me if I'm having trouble hitting my cars top speed, I will say yes, and it will tell me my car doesn't have the functionality required to change this setting? So how are people getting that car to hit the top speed??? All of this has made me poopoo the leader boards because I don't actually view the boards as the best drivers anymore. It's more like a group of guys who know how to tune the car to drive faster.

I can understand you. It's the exact reason why i asked for the option to have the AI changing or not changing the setup based on the difficulty level. A lot of people against the under 80% AI want the tuning challenge and a lot of others (like me) want to play over 80% without having the AI changing setup. I just want a faster better AI...

cpcdem
18-06-2018, 23:41
What cars/tracks are you referring to? For most cars, tuning will give you very little, from a couple tenths up to around one second, or maybe 2 seconds at most in some of the normal tracks. Maybe some special tracks like LeMans require special setups, but still that's not gonna give anybody 30 seconds of lap time...

sirio994
18-06-2018, 23:49
What cars/tracks are you referring to? For most cars, tuning will give you very little, from a couple tenths up to around one second, or maybe 2 seconds at most in some of the normal tracks. Maybe some special tracks like LeMans require special setups, but still that's not gonna give anybody 30 seconds of lap time...

This is true. It also has a lot to do with hardware, wheel and ffb options. When i moved from the G29 to the CSL Elite with load cell brake pedal i instantly gained 2 secs in every racing game i play (just for the more accurate feeback and braking)

3800racingfool
19-06-2018, 00:10
I don't really tune cars, and don't know how. I can drive the crap out of them, but I wasn't born in the 70's or 80's. I don't know what any of that stuff is. I would have thought the engineer would have remedied this, but unfortunately that's not the case. I can pick just about any track in this game, and sort the leader boards out by car. I can hop in that car, and lap until I get as close to perfect as I can. I have noticed that on every single leader board there are two clusters of times. And the gap between the clusters seems consistent every time. There will be a group or 4 or 5 guys who might get a (4:02, 4.03, 4.06), and then a following group of guys in the same car getting (4:34, 4:35, 4:37). This is clearly tuning. This is what I hate about racing games. There's always these secrets in the tuning that some guys know, and some guys don't, and they get separated on the leader boards, regardless of how well they can drive the cars. It's extremely frustrating because it's not fair. The engineer doesn't help me almost most of the time. Sometimes it will ask me if I'm having trouble hitting my cars top speed, I will say yes, and it will tell me my car doesn't have the functionality required to change this setting? So how are people getting that car to hit the top speed??? All of this has made me poopoo the leader boards because I don't actually view the boards as the best drivers anymore. It's more like a group of guys who know how to tune the car to drive faster.

Something to remember about the leaderboards is that some of those times were set back when a certain car may have been faster than it is now. Some cars have been "balanced" in patches so the times present on the LB may not be indicative of what that car is currently capable of.

Handy thing to check is http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/ which will not only show you when the time was set but also whether a custom tune was in fact used. After that, try and get close to or beat the best time using the default setup and call it a day.

Source: I'm exactly the same as you. Put me in a car with the same tune as somebody else and I'll probably beat that person's best time. But when it comes to tuning? Faghetaboutit.

Mad Al
19-06-2018, 00:12
seeing as how you can use the setups off TT by downloading the ghost, I don't see how this is even an issue...

likewise.. if you use the default setup, just compare with others using the default..

shadybrady
19-06-2018, 00:17
This is true. It also has a lot to do with hardware, wheel and ffb options. When i moved from the G29 to the CSL Elite with load cell brake pedal i instantly gained 2 secs in every racing game i play (just for the more accurate feeback and braking)

It could be hardware then. I'm just using a T150 lol. I've used the G29, but for some reason I don't know why everybody likes it. In the center of the wheel there's this mushy spot that you can't fix. It's just the way the wheel is. I actually preferred the T150. If you are seeing drastic results with hardware, I'm even more frustrated. Specifically because it's a game. We're not actually talking about real cars on real tracks. I don't have 2 years to learn how to tune a specific car, to a specific wheel on a specific track. And nobody's going to be able to help you in that regard. They can give you advice, but hardly anybody uses the same hardware. The guys in the top clusters are probably using better hardware too then I would think. It's just annoying because at this point, we're so far away from "who's a better driver". Maybe we can have a leader boards for best tune, and a leader board for the guy who spent the most money on hardware. :rolleyes:

shadybrady
19-06-2018, 00:32
[QUOTE=3800racingfool;1520920]Something to remember about the leaderboards is that some of those times were set back when a certain car may have been faster than it is now. Some cars have been "balanced" in patches so the times present on the LB may not be indicative of what that car is currently capable of.

^^^ Really??? And they didn't reset the leader boards? What's the rationale behind that? Why nerf the car and not the boards? Early bird gets the worm. I find this in other games also :( Like in Forza they made it real easy to get credits in the beginning, and by the time I bought it, they made it harder so everybody had like 10x as many credits as me if they started earlier.

cpcdem
19-06-2018, 00:37
It could be hardware then. I'm just using a T150 lol. I've used the G29, but for some reason I don't know why everybody likes it. In the center of the wheel there's this mushy spot that you can't fix. It's just the way the wheel is. I actually preferred the T150. If you are seeing drastic results with hardware, I'm even more frustrated. Specifically because it's a game. We're not actually talking about real cars on real tracks. I don't have 2 years to learn how to tune a specific car, to a specific wheel on a specific track. And nobody's going to be able to help you in that regard. They can give you advice, but hardly anybody uses the same hardware. The guys in the top clusters are probably using better hardware too then I would think. It's just annoying because at this point, we're so far away from "who's a better driver". Maybe we can have a leader boards for best tune, and a leader board for the guy who spent the most money on hardware. :rolleyes:

I am also using a G29, and a small 23'' monitor and although I cannot beat the very top players, I can get close to them, at about one second behind or so. But it wasn't always like that, when the game was released I was much more behind, but after more than 1000 hours in the game, so A LOT of practice, I got faster. I also do not tune, or if I do, I do very small changes, that helps a little bit, but it's practice the thing that really makes a lot of difference.

blinkngone
19-06-2018, 00:47
It could be hardware then. I'm just using a T150 lol. I've used the G29, but for some reason I don't know why everybody likes it. In the center of the wheel there's this mushy spot that you can't fix. It's just the way the wheel is. I actually preferred the T150. If you are seeing drastic results with hardware, I'm even more frustrated. Specifically because it's a game. We're not actually talking about real cars on real tracks. I don't have 2 years to learn how to tune a specific car, to a specific wheel on a specific track. And nobody's going to be able to help you in that regard. They can give you advice, but hardly anybody uses the same hardware. The guys in the top clusters are probably using better hardware too then I would think. It's just annoying because at this point, we're so far away from "who's a better driver". Maybe we can have a leader boards for best tune, and a leader board for the guy who spent the most money on hardware. :rolleyes:

What are you talking on and on about? TX3 Rinpoku has WRs and is near the top of of many tracks in TT while using a gamepad. Suomy has many top times using Default. The game has only been out since September 2017 so hardly 2 years to learn how to tune. One of the people who has already responded to you in this thread has 1,000 WRs using mostly Default setups, a barely minimum spec PC and an old beat down wheel.

shadybrady
19-06-2018, 00:58
I am also using a G29, and a small 23'' monitor and although I cannot beat the very top players, I can get close to them, at about one second behind or so. But it wasn't always like that, when the game was released I was much more behind, but after more than 1000 hours in the game, so A LOT of practice, I got faster. I also do not tune, or if I do, I do very small changes, that helps a little bit, but it's practice the thing that really makes a lot of difference.

I like that you capitalized "A LOT" of practice, because I really hope this is the case. In my mind I can't actually drive the car any faster around the track. Some of the tracks I don't even use the brake, like at all... and so I don't know how I'm going to find 2 seconds out of 1 or 2 degree's better angle on turns. It's probably a culmination of things, and it's just a coincidence that the clusters of times seemed consistent enough to point to a tune specification, rather than something else. The one or two seconds might be in a slightly better line, with slightly better hardware, with a more refined tune. In other words, it might not just be one thing. I'm a very orderly, somewhat obsessive compulsive with things like this. I want to be the best, and I don't like it when there are variables that are out of my hands. I'm sure the developers have that in mind, it's just hard. Even with all of that said, this game is without a doubt the best modern racing game I've played. Forza 7 doesn't even come close. It's not even in the same realm. Forza 7 feels really spongy , and mundane. The force feedback is really bland, and it's not my wheel cause it feels great in PC2. I really think SMS is going to consume the sim racing market going forward, because they've clearly figured something out. The guys who make Forza don't know what they want that game to be. I thought the Horizon series was supposed to be the arcade game, and the Motorsports series was the sim game, but everybody's telling me it's a "simcade". I don't buy it. I think the developers are aiming for simulator, and fall short, and are now running with the whole "simcade" thing coined by consumers. You get punished if you treat that game like a sim, and punished if you treat it like an arcade. Project Cars 2 is way more professional. With this game it leaves me wanting more because it's very utilitarian unlike the competitor that is more pretty graphics than mechanics. I hope SMS keeps the foundation they have, cause they're on to something.

sirio994
19-06-2018, 00:58
Hardware does make a difference on average not on leaderboards. WRs are about practice. But on average it does. I went from the g29 on desk with a carpet for the pedals to a full rig and the gap was huge on tracks and cars that i didn't practice much

cpcdem
19-06-2018, 01:18
I like that you capitalized "A LOT" of practice, because I really hope this is the case. In my mind I can't actually drive the car any faster around the track. Some of the tracks I don't even use the brake, like at all... and so I don't know how I'm going to find 2 seconds out of 1 or 2 degree's better angle on turns. It's probably a culmination of things, and it's just a coincidence that the clusters of times seemed consistent enough to point to a tune specification, rather than something else. The one or two seconds might be in a slightly better line, with slightly better hardware, with a more refined tune. In other words, it might not just be one thing. I'm a very orderly, somewhat obsessive compulsive with things like this. I want to be the best, and I don't like it when there are variables that are out of my hands. I'm sure the developers have that in mind, it's just hard. Even with all of that said, this game is without a doubt the best modern racing game I've played. Forza 7 doesn't even come close. It's not even in the same realm. Forza 7 feels really spongy , and mundane. The force feedback is really bland, and it's not my wheel cause it feels great in PC2. I really think SMS is going to consume the sim racing market going forward, because they've clearly figured something out. The guys who make Forza don't know what they want that game to be. I thought the Horizon series was supposed to be the arcade game, and the Motorsports series was the sim game, but everybody's telling me it's a "simcade". I don't buy it. I think the developers are aiming for simulator, and fall short, and are now running with the whole "simcade" thing coined by consumers. You get punished if you treat that game like a sim, and punished if you treat it like an arcade. Project Cars 2 is way more professional. With this game it leaves me wanting more because it's very utilitarian unlike the competitor that is more pretty graphics than mechanics. I hope SMS keeps the foundation they have, cause they're on to something.

I think we've all been through that, at some point most of us have thought that "wow, this lap time is impossible, I am 5 seconds behind, so he is using some kind of trick". But the more you think this way, the more difficult is to improve. Personally I wanted to do sim racing since many years in the past, but for various reasons I couldn't and finally started 3 years ago with a simcade title, Grid Autosport (had also done a little bit of F1 2010). In the beginning I was like 5-10 seconds behind the fastest and it was exactly this that I was thinking, that something is wrong, that people were probably cheating, they were using special tunes etc. After 2 years I was very close to those people or could beat some of them, but it took A LOT (again :)) of effort and time to practice and get better. Similar in Project Cars and other sims, there was a leap going from simcade to sim, but after much time and dedication you get faster over time.

Having said all that, there does exist a hardware thing in PC2 that can give you some lap time, that's an H shifter, using it with certain cars makes gear shifts a little faster compared to using paddles which can end up giving you around a second per lap. But on the other hand, it is more difficult to use an H shifter, than the paddles! Also the Grid games did have a thing, they were giving a little more extra tire grip to pad users in order to help them out, but PCARS and the other real sims do not have such things. A better wheel I don't think will give you extra lap time, maybe better pedals will do, but not huge chunks. I will soon get better pedals than the unacceptable ones of G29 and will tell you.

About the laps that you do and they feel that they are already on the limit, which are they, which cars and tracks did you use? We can have a look, by following your ghost car and tell you where it is that you might be losing time and how to gain it. Edit: I tried to figure it out myself, are you running in Monza Historic mainly?

And I completely agree with you about Project CARS 2, the foundation of this sim is extraordinary!

sirio994
19-06-2018, 01:42
As i said pedals can change a lot on average but hotlapping and leaderboard is a whole different world where even the number of attempts can make a difference. Hardware impacts more the actual racing and the real life counterpart of it (for those like me who use simracing to prepar for track days).

Hardware and tuning can give you a better starting position but then there are other things that make the difference.

I moved from the G29 to the CSL and the biggest difference was the pedals and the possibility to change travel and load of the brake (and it was night and day to me but it doesn't mean that it works for anybody).

The same is for a seat or an H-shifter. It depens on so many things. I wanted a stronger feedback for example and the G29 was not enough.

Many WRs are done with little to none feedback.

You can be faster with a wheel and slower with another and it can be track specific.

You can have a driving style that fits sosomeyme class better...

cpcdem
19-06-2018, 01:59
As i said pedals can change a lot on average but hotlapping and leaderboard is a whole different world where even the number of attempts can make a difference. Hardware impacts more the actual racing and the real life counterpart of it (for those like me who use simracing to prepar for track days).

Hardware and tuning can give you a better starting position but then there are other things that make the difference.

I moved from the G29 to the CSL and the biggest difference was the pedals and the possibility to change travel and load of the brake (and it was night and day to me but it doesn't mean that it works for anybody).

The same is for a seat or an H-shifter. It depens on so many things. I wanted a stronger feedback for example and the G29 was not enough.

Many WRs are done with little to none feedback.

You can be faster with a wheel and slower with another and it can be track specific.

You can have a driving style that fits sosomeyme class better...

In general I agree, but I think such things can only make a small difference. The pedals of the G29 are very bad, but I think I got used to them and can use the best out of them, so even though I guess I will be a little faster with load cells, I don't expect the difference to be big. I had even got used to the DFGT pedals until a few months ago...Now in case you have FFB settings that make it difficult to even turn the wheel, or you use bad sensitivity things (default are fine to me) then yeah, you can be at great disadvantage.

Unfortunately I do not have real life racing experience to compare, but I do understand it makes most sense to you guys to use settings that translate as close as possible to real life, so you can practice real life with the simulator. The rest of us, we have no clue, we just use what we are more comfortable with. And faster!

sirio994
19-06-2018, 02:32
In general I agree, but I think such things can only make a small difference. The pedals of the G29 are very bad, but I think I got used to them and can use the best out of them, so even though I guess I will be a little faster with load cells, I don't expect the difference to be big. I had even got used to the DFGT pedals until a few months ago...Now in case you have FFB settings that make it difficult to even turn the wheel, or you use bad sensitivity things (default are fine to me) then yeah, you can be at great disadvantage.

Unfortunately I do not have real life racing experience to compare, but I do understand it makes most sense to you guys to use settings that translate as close as possible to real life, so you can practice real life with the simulator. The rest of us, we have no clue, we just use what we are more comfortable with. And faster!

This. I totally agree. It's all about pushing the hardware to the limit. Sadly i never raced too, only free practice on tracks. Honestly i don't even know if better hardware translates better or it's all mental. The only real difference is the "drive it like in real life" mood that stays with you forever which is good and bad.

VR is probably the thing that translates more. It forces you to a cockpit realistic view and takes away a lot of bad habits forcing you to use your head, your in-car dashboard (not the HUD) and use your sight when drifting. But even VR doesn't translate because your body gets ready to take a G-Force that never comes and it can cause other bad habits...

cpcdem
19-06-2018, 03:34
I like that you capitalized "A LOT" of practice, because I really hope this is the case. In my mind I can't actually drive the car any faster around the track. Some of the tracks I don't even use the brake, like at all... and so I don't know how I'm going to find 2 seconds out of 1 or 2 degree's better angle on turns. It's probably a culmination of things, and it's just a coincidence that the clusters of times seemed consistent enough to point to a tune specification, rather than something else. The one or two seconds might be in a slightly better line, with slightly better hardware, with a more refined tune. In other words, it might not just be one thing.

OK, I am pretty sure you are referring to the Monza Historic laps, I could find this through the https://pcars.13ms.de/#/users/0 portal and its search by user functionality.

This track is a very special one, because very small mistakes or slightly better lines can end up gaining or losing more than one second at the end of each straight, adding up to several seconds for all the straights... It's also all about carrying as much speed as possible through the few turns and also going back on throttle very quickly after braking to maximize the exit speed. And because it is such a special high speed track, in this case tuning does make a big difference. No need to do anything fancy, just closing the radiator will give a couple seconds in this track I believe. Closing the brake ducts will give a few more tenths, also decreasing the downforce will further help, although it could also make you end up taking the corners more slowly, which will hurt because of the smaller exit speed. (Edit: just tested it, with a couple cars closed radiator gives one second per lap and reduced downforce gives another second of lap time).

Driving wise, the extremely fast 1st and 2nd to last turns can be taken with more speed than it seems, no braking at all needed with many cars and especially the 2nd one can be taken with many cars at full throttle. For the rest of the turns, it's all about maximizing exit speed. In my opinion not the best track for somebody to practice his skills, as it's so unique to all other tracks.

Malcstar
19-06-2018, 07:15
On the topic of hardware, VR could have a big impact on improvements. Even when on a gamepad you could almost react a bit faster. I know for sure VR improved my exit speeds.

Also, there's always going to be racing Jedi's out there. I would say just as long as you come within a second to their time, the competition is going to be there. I always look forward to racing with the fast guys in open lobbies. Nothing wrong with seeing what lines they take during qualifying or just trying to keep up with them out of the pits.

Zaskarspants
19-06-2018, 10:54
As cpcdem says earlier in the thread the default tunes are very good 90% of the time right up to the 120.
I never touch suspension or diff and usually change tyre pressures as required, lower brake pressure, appropriate gearing, DF adjustments and rarely brake balance to tune the turn in.

Voodoochild
19-06-2018, 11:13
a good setup can help to shed few tenths of a second or to be consistent in a race.

posting fast laps is 90% about driving skills and experience, and 10% car setup + gaming rig

cpcdem
19-06-2018, 14:10
Also, there's always going to be racing Jedi's out there. I would say just as long as you come within a second to their time, the competition is going to be there. I always look forward to racing with the fast guys in open lobbies. Nothing wrong with seeing what lines they take during qualifying or just trying to keep up with them out of the pits.

This is why I think TT is excellent for improving one's skill. You can load the ghost of the fastest guys and follow their lines and see where they gain time for as long as you want and without risking any accidents :)

Schnizz58
19-06-2018, 14:46
It's extremely frustrating because it's not fair. The engineer doesn't help me almost most of the time. Sometimes it will ask me if I'm having trouble hitting my cars top speed, I will say yes, and it will tell me my car doesn't have the functionality required to change this setting? So how are people getting that car to hit the top speed??? All of this has made me poopoo the leader boards because I don't actually view the boards as the best drivers anymore. It's more like a group of guys who know how to tune the car to drive faster.

I'm having a hard time understanding what's not fair about this. You've had the same opportunity as everybody else to learn about tire pressures, springs, dampers, differentials, etc. Nobody was born knowing that stuff -- except maybe Jussi. There's tons of good information right on this forum to help you out. If you think it makes that much difference, then learn how cars work and learn to tune them.

shadybrady
20-06-2018, 11:42
I'm having a hard time understanding what's not fair about this. You've had the same opportunity as everybody else to learn about tire pressures, springs, dampers, differentials, etc. Nobody was born knowing that stuff. There's tons of good information right on this forum to help you out. If you think it makes that much difference, then learn how cars work and learn to tune them.

"unfair" was probably a bad choice of words. What I was trying to say is, if tunes are going to play a role in leader boards, it would be more fair if there was a more straight forward guide inside of the game. Now I know they've tried, but If I'm having to minimize the game to go and learn about what these features do in the real world, either because the race engineer isn't helping me, or the info is confusing, at that point the game would require you to have a knowledge about cars outside of the game itself. That's why I used the word unfair. After talking to people on the forums, they're telling me this is two fold. Firstly, they say tuning wouldn't affect lap times in such a significant way. Second, some of the lap times on the leader boards were acquired when some of the cars were faster, before having speed reductions with game updates. <~ If true, This explains a lot. The reason I was less inclined to believe it was a matter of experience, was specifically because there were often times "clusters" of times. A group of 5 or 6 guys within a few 10ths of a second from each other, and a second cluster of guys within a few 10ths of a second from each other, but would be 2 seconds slower than the first cluster. Why nobody in between? It just looked odd is all. I've seen it on a few different tracks. When I wrote the post I was fairly certain the clusters were guys with better tunes. At this point I'm fairly certain it's just a culmination of things.

cpcdem
20-06-2018, 13:45
"unfair" was probably a bad choice of words. What I was trying to say is, if tunes are going to play a role in leader boards, it would be more fair if there was a more straight forward guide inside of the game. Now I know they've tried, but If I'm having to minimize the game to go and learn about what these features do in the real world, either because the race engineer isn't helping me, or the info is confusing, at that point the game would require you to have a knowledge about cars outside of the game itself. That's why I used the word unfair. After talking to people on the forums, they're telling me this is two fold. Firstly, they say tuning wouldn't affect lap times in such a significant way. Second, some of the lap times on the leader boards were acquired when some of the cars were faster, before having speed reductions with game updates. <~ If true, This explains a lot. The reason I was less inclined to believe it was a matter of experience, was specifically because there were often times "clusters" of times. A group of 5 or 6 guys within a few 10ths of a second from each other, and a second cluster of guys within a few 10ths of a second from each other, but would be 2 seconds slower than the first cluster. Why nobody in between? It just looked odd is all. I've seen it on a few different tracks. When I wrote the post I was fairly certain the clusters were guys with better tunes. At this point I'm fairly certain it's just a culmination of things.

We have asked you so many times to give us an example, in which car track combo have you seen such variation? In many cases it is because people have been practicing on some combos for league races. So you get a lot of times done casually in some combos and they are relatively close one to another, but you also get 4-5 times that are very far ahead, it's because certain people were practicing there and fighting for days with each other to get better lap times.

The problem with cars that are now slower than earlier, so cannot achieve times done 8 months ago is a real one, but applies only to very very few cars, something like 1% or 2% of the total cars we have in the game. You can check in the leaderboard portals when each TT lap was done, the top times are almost always recent ones.

And yes, for most cars, tuning makes a very small difference, except for for special tracks like Monza Historic, where it's all about top speed so tuning for top speed does help there.

sirio994
20-06-2018, 14:13
On summers i usually play challenges with a friend of mine who is a professional mechanical engineer who studies in the UK and many of his friends work with Mercedes or Force India. Essentially a possibile future racing engineer. When i was at zero (not able even to adjust tyre pressure) the gap was huge. Now it's small even if he touches almost every in game parameter. Tuning is a huge disadvantage when you have zero kwnowledge. But once you study the basis the gap becomes small. I think that almost any top driver in a leaderboard has enough knowledge to close the gap.

I hope to have the chance some day to test a race or free practice with his help to tune the car. I always use default setups with basic changes if any. But i'm not quite sure a full real life knowledge would translate to the game...

Schnizz58
20-06-2018, 14:16
"unfair" was probably a bad choice of words. What I was trying to say is, if tunes are going to play a role in leader boards, it would be more fair if there was a more straight forward guide inside of the game.
I think the help text inside the game is actually pretty good at explaining what each setting does.

sirio994
20-06-2018, 14:30
I think the help text inside the game is actually pretty good at explaining what each setting does.

I agree. Even though the overall balance can be hard to find. It's easy to go extreme if you don't know how things will work together

Schnizz58
20-06-2018, 14:36
I should also add that a really good way of finding out what a setting does is to set it to the min value and drive a few laps, then set it to max value and drive a few more laps. This will let you feel what that parameter does in a way that no words can capture.

hkraft300
20-06-2018, 15:44
You want to be the best? Use any and every tool at your disposal to gain an advantage.
That includes: following ghosts, loading their setups, learning to tune, practicing, getting your car 100%, getting your driving technique, hardware 100%.

Lucky for you, you’re just in TT.

Endurance leagues will leave you at the back of the grid within a few laps. No TT setups to copy. Weather and ToD changes. Pit stops, tire and fuel strategy... absolutely every factor has to be meticulously managed and planned, tested and improved to have a chance at the podium.

Pit stop tire pressures wrong? You’re losing seconds per lap. Made a mistake and didn’t take on enough fuel to end the race? +30 seconds. Badly timed your pit window for the rain? +30 seconds. Damage? +30 seconds...

BrunoB
20-06-2018, 16:39
Normally when people moan or refuse to learn a bit about setting a sim car up I tell them (as some others here) that a custom setup doesnt cut several seconds of your laptimes.
Because thats the case for sims like Raceroom and iRacing. :-)

The reason for this in Raceroom is because of the general setup simplicity (only 2-4 setup params does anything).
The reason for this in iRacing is because the orig base sim (NR2003) had even fewer params than Raceroom and iRacings devs have since struggled to include extra params which has more than placebo effect.

If you dont believe me then ask any iRacer if as example the Nissan GTPīs damper settings does anything.
Hehe after a lot of discussions iRacings Nissan experts let the damper setting stay on what it want itself :-)

But after 5+ years in iRacing I personally realised that to the contrary in pCars2 most of the (many) params actually does anything.
Hehe I even has a suspicion that some of them does have a higher impact(effect) than in RL. :-)
Take as example the extremely competent diff settings.
If I compare the pCars2 Nissan with iRacings then its quite obvious that the settings in pCars Nis controls the car behaviour under accel/deac much more than in iRacing - so ...

simsimsheree
20-06-2018, 21:23
Mind you, a bunch of WR's up on Steam leaderboards show default setup used (some even with a controller!).