PDA

View Full Version : So sick of tire issues what am I doing wrong?



sloppysmusic
21-06-2018, 01:50
Seems to be worse after patch 6 but I'm getting demoralized finding any race worth bothering to tune for and compete against AI at high level.
Been zipping thru the Manufacturer events at low AI settings as I cant get a set of tires that grip after 3 laps in soft slicks and 10 with hard.
The slicks are only good for qualifying with and then only ONE lap. Takes 2 laps to get them almost warmed up then they are gone by the end of 3rd. The AI are laughing at me drifting off track whilst leading....
If I use hards the AI are just too quick for me on settings much over 50 and softs of course i need races 3 laps or LESS. I posted a lot of tunes where I took the AI out fairly easily on 100. Now it seems impossible...

Here's an example. Diablo GTR GTO tune at Sugo. Running at only 50 AI first race I held on to 2nd until my front left overheated last lap and I was out of race.

I also tried using a hard slick on the front left only and soft on the rest which helped me out at Algarve but here it's so twisty I lose all balance in the car.

I then raised temps of fronts by 5 PSI to see if that helped.

Tires didn't overheat so much but after 1 lap there was about 1/4 wear! Was leading till near end of lap 3 then I just slid out as could not brake in time for an easy corner.
Here is the full tune. The only thing that COULD make a difference is my using Viscous LCD and semi drifting into corners. But this much wear after 2 1/2 laps?
Advice please is it my tune or are there no tires for some cars that are any use whatsoever?

The first screen shot is after only 2 1/2 laps!!

256490256491
256492256493
256494256495
256496

TekNeil
21-06-2018, 02:07
I'm not actually too familiar with Sugo myself, but one thing I notice straight away is that you have 0 camber. Tends to be an absolute minimum of -1.5 needed. And it may be worth trying the hard tyres with a lower starting pressure.

blinkngone
21-06-2018, 02:28
Hi sloppys, I can't run soft tires. Also as TekNeil suggested I think you need to be trying to get to 26 PSI after you are running so your start pressures are too high. Sorry I haven't run Sugo but with this car I have run -3.0 front camber and -1.7 rear. It seems with low camber and high pressure you will be sliding your front too much which will wreck it eventually.

Also on my Diablo I have no 3rd spring/damper???
256500

sloppysmusic
21-06-2018, 02:31
I'm not actually too familiar with Sugo myself, but one thing I notice straight away is that you have 0 camber. Tends to be an absolute minimum of -1.5 needed. And it may be worth trying the hard tyres with a lower starting pressure.

True, but camber INCREASES tire wear if i am correct? So would ADD heat to the tires? Which is why it is 0. Same as toe in. Thanks for the reply though, must be a way of figuring this out!
Camber is normally tweaked to equalize pressure from outside/center/inside of tires. That front left that is wasted has only about 7f warmer on outside. A smidgen! No way enough to cause this much wear surely? The tires are not even that hot...
Yes, with lower temps the hard tires can make it through 3 laps but as I mentioned, I then have no chance against the AI at even 50!

Here is a race from GT3 at Dubai GP..6 laps of heavy driving, mucho throttle and brake pedal usage and plenty of hard turns.
This is what I would think is perfectly normal? Slight overheat and a little wear from soft slicks. Are the road soft slicks considerably inferior?

256501

sloppysmusic
21-06-2018, 02:33
[QUOTE=blinkngone;1521754]Hi sloppys, I can't run soft tires. Also as TekNeil suggested I think you need to be trying to get to 26 PSI after you are running so your start pressures are too high. Sorry I haven't run Sugo but with this car I have run -3.0 front camber and -1.7 rear. It seems with low camber and high pressure you will be sliding your front too much which will wreck it eventually.

Also on my Diablo I have no 3rd spring/damper???

It's the GTR/GTO version, is that the one you are checking? The default stable setup for car runs 1.5 front and 1.0 rear camber for the car.

Thanks for reply blink! Less than 3 laps though and in the race I drove smooth maybe mild drift in 2 corners when passing.

There's a question re camber. Would removing all camber from a car (1.5 to 0) cause a tire to half wear out after only 3 laps? That seems a LOT of increased physical reaction with the tarmac....surely a TON of heat would be generated plus a TON of grip!?

I'm going to run 3 laps again with default stable setup and tires somewhat deflated. Screen shot will be forthcoming and maybe solve a mystery!

cpcdem
21-06-2018, 02:43
I think it's important to always do several laps in default setup first, so when you start setup changes you see if you have taken the wrong route (and your times get worse).

So do 10-20 quali laps in default setup, what lap times do you achieve? Compare your lap time with the top times in the (PC!) leaderboards, especially with the people that have done default runs, this will tell you if you need to practice more in this car/track, or you are already doing fine so it could just be a matter of unbalanced AI, in which case you SHOULD drop the AI level lower indeed.

Note that the lambo GTO seems that it is way slower by the other cars in its class. Not sure if the race you do has identical cars only, but in any case, this is a thing to keep in mind.

blinkngone
21-06-2018, 02:43
[QUOTE=blinkngone;1521754]Hi sloppys, I can't run soft tires. Also as TekNeil suggested I think you need to be trying to get to 26 PSI after you are running so your start pressures are too high. Sorry I haven't run Sugo but with this car I have run -3.0 front camber and -1.7 rear. It seems with low camber and high pressure you will be sliding your front too much which will wreck it eventually.

Also on my Diablo I have no 3rd spring/damper???

It's the GTR/GTO version, is that the one you are checking? The default stable setup for car runs 1.5 front and 1.0 rear camber for the car.

Thanks for reply blink! Less than 3 laps though and in the race I drove smooth maybe mild drift in 2 corners when passing.

There's a question re camber. Would removing all camber from a car (1.5 to 0) cause a tire to half wear out after only 3 laps? That seems a LOT of increased physical reaction with the tarmac....surely a TON of heat would be generated plus a TON of grip!?

I'm going to run 3 laps again with default stable setup and tires somewhat deflated. Screen shot will be forthcoming and maybe solve a mystery!

Yeah that's the one I am checking, maybe it just looks different on PS4? Can you make adjustments to those settings?

These are the top 2 runs at Sugo TT for camber.
1st
256502
2nd, 0.061 behind 1st
256503

sloppysmusic
21-06-2018, 03:14
Almost zero camber on those runs!

I've had a LOT of practice on this track. No qualifying at this session so can't do that but would NOT work as tires be worn out before they warm up. Hard tires I can't beat AI over 25...

It's NOT me or my tune. Look at this video I just made. Only 3 laps using default tune 26psi road tire temp. No way is that normal wear surely?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2zfZF8vJRE&feature=youtu.be

I've done a TON of tuning in the last couple months, this is normal behavior for this car and tires. Had same issue at Algarve.
AI setting does not matter....a front tire wearing out this fast IS the problem!
:D

You can see me FLY past the AI at setting 50 here. I would normally be trying 100 at this track. First lap you can see why...

It's almost as if ACCELERATED tire wear is on? If so that would be a mistake in career surely?

Here is me with Ginetta 57 during qualifying AI 100/100.
WR time is around 1.10. I'm doing under 1.15 here in qualifying not time trial I have radiator open and ducts open and a few laps of fuel to slow me down PLUS a bunch of cars to avoid!!
Point is...I KNOW this track...and AI is 100 here...plus NO TIRE issues!
(also....the video below is the FIRST time I ever used the G57 in the game...in the qualifying session. I ran one session to tweak the tune and then ran again to get a fast qualifying time - but as you can see from the above this is not about the AI the tires are faulty...worn by end of first lap)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxCobfpbnbM

Hey Blink. I know you can only run Silver Nat these days. Feel like giving this car a go in a custom race (not TT) with softs and conditions as shown just to see if after only a couple laps you can see tire wear like shown in the above video?

cpcdem
21-06-2018, 03:41
The video shows that the soft tires are cooking. So you must use hard tires instead.

sloppysmusic
21-06-2018, 04:46
The video shows that the soft tires are cooking. So you must use hard tires instead.

sigh...yes it does..after 1 lap.
Hard tires the car needs less than 25 AI to keep up IF you are very careful and never get hit.
Just ran TT.. few seconds behind PC WR 3 seconds faster than previous PS4 best.

I NEVER heard of slicks cooking in less than one lap before...LMP1 cars can do 3 hot laps of Spa before that happens.

ONLY this car/tire combo. Makes the event a joke.

Here are 2 shots from the TT showing tire temps before and after finish. Sudden drop after finish line but NOT reset? Is there NO tire wear in TT? NONE shown here but temps DO go up. Does this affect handling? Cos on last bend I nearly slid off.
Serious question. Why should I HAVE to use hard slicks in a THREE lap race? WHY are the slicks even available if they can't handle ONE lap? (sorry that was 2 questions)
Hard tires on this car are VERY slippery. You have to brake half a mile before the turn and the AI will smack you off before you get there. I challenge someone to do a hot lap (any time) in this car at this track on Hards without creeping round the circuit (custom race AI 50 identical AI cars or below 50 if you have to).
I just tried to qualify on hards and quit after 2 laps sliding off into the dust.
When AI or less is required for 'good' racers to win an invitational then said race is broken.
Conclusion:
Devs please remove soft slicks from the Diablo. They are defective and unusable and waste your customer's time completely!

PS. This car on soft slicks is a dream to drive ( for 3/4 lap). It would be great fun in the game. Hard slicks are NO fun for anyone at all. Therefore the car is being wasted. Wonder why it took me so long to find PS4 TT's for it? The Ferrari F40 is a dream on the same tires......

256511256512

cpcdem
21-06-2018, 05:03
Yes, the soft tires overheat so lose grip very quickly, no need to have tire wear in order to lose all their performance. Think about F1, if they used the hypersoft tires in some tracks like Barcelona or Silversone, they cannot complete even one lap without sliding everywhere. Soft tires in PC2 are meant to be used only in cold conditions, or possibly in qualifying, if the conditions are good for them and you can make them last their grip for a lap. In all other cases, you must use hard tires.

I did some testing and I had no problem with AI level much higher, I only used the completely default setup, so hard tires and default pressures. That could be due to the different setup (please keep this in mind as a possibility, you could have just gone a wrong route with tuning of this car, it has happened numerous times to all of us), or even due to different hardware, we cannot discard this possibility. Or maybe I used different conditions than you did. So why don't you do another video, again with the telemetry showing, you doing the same race with hard tires. I'd suggest also using completely default setup, until we figure out what's causing the problems, and then you can go on and improve the setup again, having a more solid base to work on.

hkraft300
21-06-2018, 07:02
Your front starting pressure is way too high.
Your brakes are way too hot (hence you can't slow enough for corners). Try 80% for the ducts.
You need camber for grip in corners.
You're definitely not drifting as indicated by your rear tire wear. You're turning the wheel more than necessary to force the car to turn. This overheats and wears the front tires more than necessary.
Try steering ratio of of 10-12:1. Feel the ffb for front tire scrub and steer accordingly.
Soft tires should be fine at sugo at those track temps if you're smooth, but you're better off running a hard tire.
Diablo is the slowest of the GTO cars so you'll struggle against the field anyway.

Hard tires perform almost as well as soft, just that in moderate track temps you need to force their temp up to grip.

Atak Kat
21-06-2018, 07:32
Never drove that car (Diablo), but I think all the comments given already, make sense.

Camber especially. The tire temps are higher on the outside. It means that your tires are tilting outwards, and it simply gets worse when you are turning. So when turning, it will be like you're running only on the outside edge of the tire, rather than the whole contact patch. It would feel like a lot less grip in corners, and I guess that could chew up a soft tire pretty quickly (with all the force only on the outside edge of the tire).
I try to tune camber to have inside temp about 5-10 deg (C) hotter than outside. On the straights, the tires are running more on the inside edge of the tires, thus the hotter temps inside. But because it's just front/back forces on the straights, it doesn't affect the tire wear very much (there's not really the tire scrubbing you get in the corners). But then in the corners, the tire runs more flat with the forces on the wheels/tires in the turn, giving better contact patch when in the turn.

I thought I ran a pretty tight steering ratio with 9.0 or 9.5. With 7.5 you must have a pretty delicate and precise touch with the steering inputs.
I suspect the camber together with the steering ratio is what is eating the tires so much after few laps. They have low corner grip due to the camber, and with your steering ratio you are likely turning the front wheels more than you think. Together, I suspect that the tires are sliding A LOT in the corners, and accelerating the wear a whole lot.

sloppysmusic
21-06-2018, 07:52
Well thanks for input guys. I may run a few laps hard slick if someone can post a tune here. I was using stable default in the video. My steering ratio is low because I (cos musician maybe?!) DO have very delicate and sensitive hand/wrist ability plus the minus of age giving me arm ache if I turn them too much. Rally-cross was literally a real pain for me to complete.
You have to bear in mind that I have many hours of testing and tuning of other cars in the sim (check the tons of info in my 3 career setup threads) and this is the only car where I have had slicks burn out during the first lap. I really believe that slicks should at LEAST be available to qualify with and do 3 lap races as well. Obviously we push a lot during qualify and this will wear out tires faster. But that is what the slicks are there for? Short term abuse!
CPCDEM..I would love to see a video of how to race this car fast against high AI! The AI being less important to me for learning than regular good lap times.
I don't think the rookie sim driver has a cat in Hell's chance of competing in this race though!

TekNeil
21-06-2018, 07:55
Also in this video, that front left seems to be taking most wear from a lot of locking brakes?




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2zfZF8vJRE&feature=youtu.be

Bealdor
21-06-2018, 08:32
PS. This car on soft slicks is a dream to drive ( for 3/4 lap). It would be great fun in the game. Hard slicks are NO fun for anyone at all. Therefore the car is being wasted. Wonder why it took me so long to find PS4 TT's for it? The Ferrari F40 is a dream on the same tires......

The Diablo is a 1400kg heavy pig compared to the sleek 1050kg the F40 weighs. Because of this it'll chew much faster through soft tires.
TBH I'm quite surprised that your tire temps are comparatively low especially combined with that tire wear.

Nevertheless, we'll nudge the devs if these amounts of wear are as designed or not.

drathuu
21-06-2018, 09:01
OK some observations.

You are locking the brakes in every heavy braking area.. this will contribute Huge Heat and Tyre wear... (i watched 2/3rds of your first lap) and noted the tyres squeel every braking zone. You need to brake smoother and earlier, or use more trail braking.

You also seem to oversteer, you are scrubbing the tyres (ALOT) the right hand parabolic last corner, you overdrive, understeer, lift off.. then full throttle, understeer again.. Massive tyre scrub and hence heat and hence wear.

Possibly you need to get much much smoother with your driving inputs.

This brings me to the assumption given your on a PS4 you are using a controller (So this is going to be very hard to improve).. if you had a wheel it would be much easier.. I suggest getting slower and smoother movements on every control you use..

As for setup.. Camber on tyres will cause un-even wear.. but your cars body rolls across the suspension in corners.. as the car rolls the negative camber actually becomes flat on the road. As such you WILL need to have negative camber of some form.. having Zero will actually mean your tyres arent flat on the road in corners (When you need the most grip).. it will also reduce scrub and hence heat if you get it flat on the road in corners.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKY8HoBK5-M

blinkngone
21-06-2018, 10:35
Hi sloppys, no problem in a 5 lap race with AI at 100 but you will have to be able to run laps in the low 57s high 56s if you increase the aggression. No issue with tire wear at 5 laps. Just to echo what others have noted this isn't a good car in this class so unless you run against identical cars you are in a lot of trouble in GTO. The Ferrari F40, Porsche 961, Audi and the Nissans are way too fast for it.
256516
256517

poirqc
21-06-2018, 12:12
I did a quick 6 laps race, Ai 90/100. With current date, the track temp was 28C. Tire wear seemed to be ok.

Keep in mind that the last long high speed bend will chew tires if you push trought too much. It does in lots of cars.

On a side note, Default Loose spring and dampers are pretty good out of the box, according to Jussi's calculator. If you tune a setup, you could probably only play with differential, tire pressure and toe to taste. In the first screens I you had a really low steering ratio. Maybe the wheel gets "sideway" too much/fast with such a low value?

Sugo is a super nice track, that flows really well! :D It`s a rewarding track to learn! :D

blinkngone
21-06-2018, 12:27
I did a quick 6 laps race, Ai 90/100. With current date, the track temp was 28C. Tire wear seemed to be ok.

Keep in mind that the last long high speed bend will chew tires if you push trought too much. It does in lots of cars.

On a side note, Default Loose spring and dampers are pretty good out of the box, according to Jussi's calculator. If you tune a setup, you could probably only play with differential, tire pressure and toe to taste. In the first screens I you had a really low steering ratio. Maybe the wheel gets "sideway" too much/fast with such a low value?

Sugo is a super nice track, that flows really well! :D It`s a rewarding track to learn! :D

Hey poirqc, do you remember what your best lap was? What was the AI best lap? The reason I am asking is in general I see that with the AI at 100 you have to be able to come close to the TT WR at Silverstone National and I was curious if it is the same at Sugo.
The AI at 100 are a quicker than the WR but they normally putt around until the last laps and then they put in their best laps.

blinkngone
21-06-2018, 12:49
Hi sloppys, as you can see many people are concerned about your low steering ratio. In PCars 1 this what I used to do and hkraft can tell you he used to bring this up to me a lot that it might be causing me problems. I understand why you are attempting this, I was doing it because I lost the use of my left arm and driving with one arm the wheel motion was too much so I was trying to reduce it. This usually caused me problems with my left front tire at a lot of tracks, some car/track combinations worse than others. So with PCars 2 I have been leaving the steering ratio pretty much alone and only reducing it a little for some specific cars. Now I am starting to lose the functionality in my right arm as well, so what I have been doing is reducing the FFB forces to try and save myself some pain and get to where I can run a few more laps. I experimented with the Steering Sensitivity, people don't seem to like that much either because 50 is where you should be for linear response but at 100 I seem to do better. So, maybe you can try adjusting your FFB to save your wrists a little and see if using the higher steering ratios helps you with the tires on some cars.

Oh, a while ago I was having so much trouble with my right hand/wrist that I had almost had to give up playing but some of the great people on the forum came to my aid and suggested gloves. I ended up with the Harbinger glove which has really helped and does offer some wrist support if you pull the strap tight.

cpcdem
21-06-2018, 13:41
You have to bear in mind that I have many hours of testing and tuning of other cars in the sim (check the tons of info in my 3 career setup threads) and this is the only car where I have had slicks burn out during the first lap. I really believe that slicks should at LEAST be available to qualify with and do 3 lap races as well. Obviously we push a lot during qualify and this will wear out tires faster. But that is what the slicks are there for? Short term abuse!
CPCDEM..I would love to see a video of how to race this car fast against high AI! The AI being less important to me for learning than regular good lap times.
I don't think the rookie sim driver has a cat in Hell's chance of competing in this race though!

Hmmm, maybe this is a misunderstanding? Hard tires for GT cars are slicks, too! They are just slicks which are meant to be used in higher temps than the soft slicks, which are meant for cold conditions only.

About a video, I am pretty sure there will be plenty online if you search. Personally I still haven't made the step to the world of creating a youtube account, although sooner or later I think I will need to, mainly for posting race incidents for investigation after races :)

sloppysmusic
21-06-2018, 23:39
Did a bunch more testing to nail exactly the largest cause of tire wear.
Overheating brakes not stopping car in time ruled out for that very reason. Overheating brakes would UNDERperform and give LESS demand on front tires, not MORE. If your wheels are locking your brakes are good!
ALL tire surface scrapes were causing the visible wear. Yes you can see the green bar decrease visually each time you
1) Lock front wheels.
2) Push round any corner (not how you enter corner so much as how you add throttle and hold your line going faster)

Eliminated first problem by making brake balance 50/50 and decreasing pressure to 63. No locking under any amount of braking stopped wear that way.
(I did a couple laps using only engine braking and noticed zero front tire wear after 3 laps but I was of course going WAY too slow AND destroying the gearbox that way!)

Tested steering ratio at 5 and 20. Negligible difference as 90% of wear was taken AFTER corner entry as mentioned above (discounting excessive 'drift' steering moves).
Bizarrely , or maybe logically the LOWER ratio caused LESS tire wear through corners because:

1) Vast majority tire wear was from camber issues THROUGH the corner, not initial turn in. The last long corner yes indeed takes a big toll if you push the car at all.
2) 'Drift' steering, whacking the front end round the corner has the effect of 'lifting front end' if using throttle and placing it almost at apex facing exit. So car has less camber burn from driving thru the corner (make sense?).
(only the case if some throttle applied during the heavy steer, braking and then steering caused front end skid and therefore wear.
Despite this observation smooth steering seems the way to go so I am keeping low ratios (but maybe 10 as opposed to 8) but concentrating on reducing as much 'skid' as possible.

Final testing and my conclusion:

I set AI to 00 so I could race round the track and see what lap times I could get with new setup/technique.

Driving smoothly with ZERO tire squeal round corners gave me 1.35 times...no use at all.
Pushing the car AND driving smoothly I could get times down to 1.28 (only 1 second slower than my crazy driving last night).

The last corner is biggest killer, by using the aforementioned 'drift steer' I could force car round some corners quickly and avoid camber squeal. The last corner as soon as you apply gas you have squealing tires. The car will also drift off the track into the dirt if you don't hold your line in the middle where even keeping your speed level will give tire squeal.

I still really believe the tire is defective. I think with brake squeal eliminated pushing the car on only one bad corner per lap makes each subsequent last corner MORE of an ordeal and therefore multiplies the effect.
I am using a LOT of neg camber now (2.5 to 3.5 in tests). JUST to get through one corner with zero wear!
This is still the only car/tire combo I have ever had any issue with out of well over 50 car tests. I am glad I DID have the problem as I have learned a lot about what causes the worst tire wear.
I just don't think it should be punished THAT much though. Who would put a tire on a car that would be written off by one crappily taken long corner?
I would like to use this tire for qualifying. I think it would be perfect but it needs to survive 2 gentle laps to warm up and then say 3 hard push laps to get a good time.
That's a fair request n'est pa?

blinkngone
22-06-2018, 00:07
Uh, you are still working the Soft tires? I have only tried -3.0 front camber and Hard tires. The quickest Default run at Sugo is a 1:27.493 +0:03.473 using Hard tires and -2.0 Front camber. The tire may be defective as you beleive, in the 5.0 patch the Mustang Cobra's tires were defective on PS4 with severe wear and tire shake on the Ovals. You need to get other PS4 drivers to confirm this, we didn't have any issues on PC with Cobra and none on XBOX, I ran a lot of tests for them before. I ran with no issues and piorqc didn't have any so we can't help you sort the issue.

sloppysmusic
22-06-2018, 00:32
Uh, you are still working the Soft tires? I have only tried -3.0 front camber and Hard tires. The quickest Default run at Sugo is a 1:27.493 +0:03.473 using Hard tires and -2.0 Front camber. The tire may be defective as you beleive, in the 5.0 patch the Mustang Cobra's tires were defective on PS4 with severe wear and tire shake on the Ovals. You need to get other PS4 drivers to confirm this, we didn't have any issues on PC with Cobra and none on XBOX, I ran a lot of tests for them before. I ran with no issues and piorqc didn't have any so we can't help you sort the issue.

Well yeh I HAD to keep with the softs or else I would not have been able to diagnose where the wear (!) was coming from. I don't need any more help now thanks, although the official admittance the tire is 'defective' would really help. As you say it has happened before, bigger problems are getting heat INTO the tires for the moment (I stopped using my Android pcars dash app as it was getting too depressing constantly seeing blue in my peripheral vision during the first lap of a race!)

Not for the first time, much has been learned by asking difficult questions here!

cpcdem
22-06-2018, 01:40
Well yeh I HAD to keep with the softs or else I would not have been able to diagnose where the wear (!) was coming from. I don't need any more help now thanks, although the official admittance the tire is 'defective' would really help. As you say it has happened before, bigger problems are getting heat INTO the tires for the moment (I stopped using my Android pcars dash app as it was getting too depressing constantly seeing blue in my peripheral vision during the first lap of a race!)

Not for the first time, much has been learned by asking difficult questions here!

I feel you are ignoring us a little bit, but as many said before, soft tires are only supposed to be used in cold conditions. If you try to use them in the conditions that they are not meant for, they will very quickly overheat, they will lose grip and they will wear out quickly. So you need to use hard tires instead, which are working fine and you can be competitive with them. Nothing is defective, it's just that the soft tires are not meant to be used under those conditions, same as the hard tires are not meant to be used in cold conditions. Or like wet tires are not meant to be used in the dry, this does not make them defective...

sloppysmusic
22-06-2018, 01:54
I feel you are ignoring us a little bit, but as many said before, soft tires are only supposed to be used in cold conditions. If you try to use them in the conditions that they are not meant for, they will very quickly overheat, they will lose grip and they will wear out quickly. So you need to use hard tires instead, which are working fine and you can be competitive with them. Nothing is defective, it's just that the soft tires are not meant to be used under those conditions, same as the hard tires are not meant to be used in cold conditions. Or like wet tires are not meant to be used in the dry, this does not make them defective...

Ahh now hold on I'm not ignoring you, but 70F is pretty cool compared to some of the temps. What IS cool? There are very few winter races that I can remember, often the track is at 130. What EXACTLY counts as cool for soft and warm for hard? I can follow your instructions when you give them in degrees!

Also,,,I'm not DOING the race here. I'm just testing to find out what I was getting wrong to only have ONE tire wear that much, all the others were fine and not overheating or wearing fast.
I like to spend ages testing just to learn something new. Which I did here!

poirqc
22-06-2018, 03:36
Hey poirqc, do you remember what your best lap was? What was the AI best lap? The reason I am asking is in general I see that with the AI at 100 you have to be able to come close to the TT WR at Silverstone National and I was curious if it is the same at Sugo.
The AI at 100 are a quicker than the WR but they normally putt around until the last laps and then they put in their best laps.


Uh, you are still working the Soft tires? I have only tried -3.0 front camber and Hard tires. The quickest Default run at Sugo is a 1:27.493 +0:03.473 using Hard tires and -2.0 Front camber. The tire may be defective as you beleive, in the 5.0 patch the Mustang Cobra's tires were defective on PS4 with severe wear and tire shake on the Ovals. You need to get other PS4 drivers to confirm this, we didn't have any issues on PC with Cobra and none on XBOX, I ran a lot of tests for them before. I ran with no issues and piorqc didn't have any so we can't help you sort the issue.

I only did a quick race and didn't really setup things. I don't even remember what my time was. Also, i didn't check the AI times. If i'm not mistaken, 90 AI makes them run around real world world record. Above that, i guess anything can be possible.

I'll try to do a longer race and post details. I'm not sure when i'll be able to do it. Soft should be good until 30 C, witch is around 86 F.

cpcdem
22-06-2018, 03:46
Ahh now hold on I'm not ignoring you, but 70F is pretty cool compared to some of the temps. What IS cool? There are very few winter races that I can remember, often the track is at 130. What EXACTLY counts as cool for soft and warm for hard? I can follow your instructions when you give them in degrees!

Also,,,I'm not DOING the race here. I'm just testing to find out what I was getting wrong to only have ONE tire wear that much, all the others were fine and not overheating or wearing fast.
I like to spend ages testing just to learn something new. Which I did here!

There is no golden rule, or at least I don't know any. Just make a few runs with the hard tires, if they do not get up to temperature and do not start having grip then go to the soft tires. Or the opposite, if you want start with the soft tires, if they overheat (like they do A LOT in your case), switch to hard tires. If you want to find the exact temp where you need to switch from on tire to the other, just do some tests in different temps until you find it.

sloppysmusic
22-06-2018, 05:03
I only did a quick race and didn't really setup things. I don't even remember what my time was. Also, i didn't check the AI times. If i'm not mistaken, 90 AI makes them run around real world world record. Above that, i guess anything can be possible.

I'll try to do a longer race and post details. I'm not sure when i'll be able to do it. Soft should be good until 30 C, witch is around 86 F.

Hey thanks. When I tested AI at 100 do 1.20 times with hards. So that's not possible by a human.
cpcdem I ONLY get overheating soft tires with this car here and Algarve (which at 132F i would expect.) I suspect the tires are not as useful as the ones other performance cars have. It has soft slicks....wear too much, hard slicks (tough drive sorry for us amateurs) and wet.
Talking about Algarve, took La Ferrari (500 lbs heavier than the Diablo plus somewhat extra grunt) round there 3 laps with the ROAD soft tires. Much grip, no sign of tire wear or overheating despite my awful overbraking and sliding around. Surely if the Diablo and ALL performance road cars could have these tires it would be great? Those road tires come in in soft/medium and hard ALL of which CAN be used in the wet too, except the mediums are best in the wet.

So yes I thought too that softs should be fine at 70f? For 3 laps!

hkraft300
22-06-2018, 06:37
What EXACTLY counts as cool for soft and warm for hard?

Many variables. What are you driving? How is your car set up? What track are you driving?

45℃ at Monza in a GT3 car the soft tires hold ok. It's a fast track, plenty of straights for the tires to cool between the few high speed high load corners.
45℃ at Imola soft tires are fine in an LMP1/2 car with lots of downforce but you'll cook it in a GT3 car. Lots of slow corners, not a lot of load.
30℃ at Spa is borderline in a GT car. You can baby the soft tires or drive hard tires like you stole it.

Test. And when you do, don't just do 3-5 laps. Try 10 lap stints. How are your pressures/ wear and brakes holding up? Every setup parameter affects the tires.

Zaskarspants
22-06-2018, 11:05
Driving style is hugely important to manage tyres.

I am afraid I cant recall the exact car / track but I was on softs and kept overheating and lost grip, but a small lengthening of braking zones and smoother driving kept the temps down and the laps got quicker.

Unless it is very hot I try softs, if they squirm and overheat I try slowing to speed up, then harder tyres.

Maybe turn up tyre sounds? If they are squealing they are heating.

pferreirag60
22-06-2018, 11:32
I dont know if you are driving with a wheel or a controller, buy without a wheel will be very dificult to be smooth, even if you think you are very smooth. Another think, have you changed the default sensitivity in the controller menu from 50% to any other value?

Note: Just finished watching your video. You brake to much in some corners, the first right corner, you should try to do in 3 gear, the second in the same gear and the next left corner, usually in 4 gear, if the car have 6 or more gears.

Brake first and hard, then shift gears taking some brake pressure with your feet, also as some have said you turn your wheel to much in some corners, because of all that your tires are gone to fast.

As some have said, never change a car setup before driving at least 1 hour testing and learning the car. Every car even in the same class drive some what differently.

Raklodder
22-06-2018, 12:04
Driving style is hugely important to manage tyres.

I am afraid I cant recall the exact car / track but I was on softs and kept overheating and lost grip, but a small lengthening of braking zones and smoother driving kept the temps down and the laps got quicker.

Unless it is very hot I try softs, if they squirm and overheat I try slowing to speed up, then harder tyres.

Maybe turn up tyre sounds? If they are squealing they are heating.
Aye, most of the time, I either forget to change my tyre pressure or tweak my car to the track, hence why I will either get very low grip (mostly cold tyres) or have 'em overheat and burst into flames.

cpcdem
22-06-2018, 15:06
Hey thanks. When I tested AI at 100 do 1.20 times with hards. So that's not possible by a human.

If they are really doing 1.20, then it's probably a balancing problem of the AI itself. So lower down the AI level without any guilts, it's the only sensible thing to do and it's this why we have the slider.




cpcdem I ONLY get overheating soft tires with this car here and Algarve (which at 132F i would expect.) I suspect the tires are not as useful as the ones other performance cars have. It has soft slicks....wear too much, hard slicks (tough drive sorry for us amateurs) and wet.
Talking about Algarve, took La Ferrari (500 lbs heavier than the Diablo plus somewhat extra grunt) round there 3 laps with the ROAD soft tires. Much grip, no sign of tire wear or overheating despite my awful overbraking and sliding around. Surely if the Diablo and ALL performance road cars could have these tires it would be great? Those road tires come in in soft/medium and hard ALL of which CAN be used in the wet too, except the mediums are best in the wet.

So yes I thought too that softs should be fine at 70f? For 3 laps!

You can not compare the road tires with the tires that the GT cars use, AFAIK they are completely different. You are comparing apples and oranges here, especially taking into account that road cars do not have different soft and hard tires, presumably all the road tires are anyway much "harder" than both e the soft and hard GT tire compounds.

sloppysmusic
22-06-2018, 16:26
You can not compare the road tires with the tires that the GT cars use, AFAIK they are completely different. You are comparing apples and oranges here, especially taking into account that road cars do not have different soft and hard tires, presumably all the road tires are anyway much "harder" than both e the soft and hard GT tire compounds.

I didn't think I WAS comparing road tires with GT. I was comparing road tires used by the Diablo and road tires used by LaFerrari (available in the real world I even read customer reviews to choose which compound in the wet!)

Diablo IS a road car right? It has hard and soft slicks (are these track tires for a road car?).
LaFerrari IS also a road car? It has soft/medium/hard ROAD tires.

Am I getting something confused here?
Never mentioned a GT car anywhere.

Some road cars have 'track' tires with grooves but that's a different subject. THEY would be nice to have here too!

We need much more tire choice I believe, every road car should have one real world track tire group and one real world road tire group.

I believe this is the manufacturer the sim uses for some road cars:

https://www.nittotire.com/competition-tires/

cpcdem
22-06-2018, 16:34
We do not have the road version of the Diablo car in the game, we instead have the GTO version which was the racing version, with racing tires etc. The LaFerrari car on the other hand is indeed a road car.
Similar for the Ferrari F40 and F50, we do not have the road versions of those cars, but the racing versions instead (GTO and GT1 classes respectively).

sloppysmusic
22-06-2018, 17:33
We do not have the road version of the Diablo car in the game, we instead have the GTO version which was the racing version, with racing tires etc. The LaFerrari car on the other hand is indeed a road car.
Similar for the Ferrari F40 and F50, we do not have the road versions of those cars, but the racing versions instead (GTO and GT1 classes respectively).

Ahh thanks that makes sense now. So there are approx 3 types of car. Road car, race version of road car and actual race car?

The Diablo being a road car, race converted (?) or race built for this version?

Does GTx therefore equal race version of a car?

Cars that have track tires available, neither slicks or road tires what type are they? (I am learning here - if there was a definitive online publication explaining all this that the game adheres to please link! I can read for days ...)

My confusion would have been caused by the heavy powerful road LF having soft tires available with better grip and durability than the race slicks for the race car. I understand race slicks are not built for any endurance but they must surely be able to suffer a little abuse for say a short qualifying session whatever the car or else they are useless? HIGH road temps not withstanding.

Being 'old' I have knowledge left over from the original Crammond F1 games, which stressed the short term use of 'qualifying tires'. I am confusing soft slicks with these I guess.
It's hard counting soft and hard slicks of being the same type when 1 has 30x the durability of the other. I'd expect there to be soft/medium soft/medium/medium hard and hard as a more useful range for the race driver. If this has no modern day equivalent I apologize for my ignorance!

Schnizz58
22-06-2018, 18:49
I'm not sure what distinction you're making between race versions of road cars and actual race cars. The way I look at it, there are race cars and road cars. Some race cars are derived from production cars (e.g., GTx classes) and some are bespoke (e.g., prototypes).

cpcdem
22-06-2018, 21:00
Yeah, depending on the series/class/racing organization, racing cars that are based on road cars need to have (by regulations) certain things exactly the same as the "normal" road versions, while other things can be completely different, suspension for example. They may also require the road car on which the car has been based to have sold x number of items.

So actually there can be a road car version, race car version based on it for racing organization A, another for race series B etc. For example for the Ferrari 488 road car there's a modified race version for the GT3 category, another for GTE (LeMans) and probably more. There have been several discussions in this forum about such topics, personally I have only a very small knowledge about all that, but if you are interested to read, there's so much info available if you search for it. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSA_GT_Championship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_GT3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_5_(racing)

Atak Kat
22-06-2018, 21:07
I was a bit intrigued by this, so did some testing on my own.

First, I don't have the same manuf event unlocked, so I tried to simulate it as close as possible with custom event. Sorry, my stuff is in metric, but I think it's close to what you had.
I set for 25 cars, winter, Sugo, AI at 75. 10 laps. Ambient was 10C, and track 18C. I think that's a bit cooler than your F temps, but not too far off. I tried also with Autumn, and the temps were higher, but overall result similar to below.

I tried the default loose and immediately the fronts were locking with barely 60% brake application. So first thing I did was adjust the brake balance to be 40%front, 60% rear. I don't think I've driven other cars with that sort of bb, but this is what i needed to keep the fronts from locking too much, and get decent braking similar to what the AI were doing.

I fit the soft tires, to stay with what you are doing.
Lots of restarts, but in the end I found this setup (started with default loose) with some comments:
Pressures 1.4 front, 1.26 rear (bar). Hot they were reaching about 1.75 and seemed stable there
Brake pressure 85%, but I had to put the front ducts 90%, and rears 100% (otherwise brakes really overheating)
Downforce 6 (didn't change)
Front camber -2.8, rear -2.0. Rear could not go more camber, and I found that the rear tires I still had the outside temps a bit higher than the inside. Only a few deg different, but I was surprised that there was no way for me to put enough camber to get the inside temps higher than outside.
Ride Height front 84mm, rear 94mm. Watch the telemetry at speed, the rear gets really low so you need more rear ride height to offset this.
Spring rate front 190, rear 190.
ARB front 75, rear 45.
Toe I didn't change -0.1 front, 0.3 rear.
Dampers I didn't mess with.
Engine braking 10.
Traction control 9%, ABS 80%
For the Diff, I only changed the power to 60, coast 40.

With this, I was able to do 1.26s fairly consistently. The race leader/winner (Ian Bell, btw), had a best lap 1.262. My best lap 1.261. Other cars in the 1.26s as well, so I was at least able to run laps similar to the AI. It was nowhere near 1.20 though (but, I had my ai at 75, not 100)

Driving the car I did find that the tire temps were still a challenge to keep under control. Fronts between 100-105, which were OK and lasted the 10 laps. Rears though were often 105 and peaking 110. This likely a bit too much heavy foot out of the corners, and probably more adjustment on setup (or my foot) could keep this a bit lower. But the car handled OK for all the 10 laps and definitely not the issues you are seeing. I did find that the tire life graphic went down, but it was pretty consistent front to rear, and by the end of the 10 laps I'd estimate there was about 35% of the tire graphic gone. Definitely the left side took the hit more than the right.

I didn't find a big issue or major bug here. The car is a bit of a challenge to drive, but I found it OK after the above setup adjustments.

If you wanted to spend more time, then going for an asymmetrical setup could be a big help. This car on this track has BIG differences in the tire temps between the left and right side mainly due to that huge right hand high speed corner near the end of the lap. That just cooks the rear left and it's hard for it to recover. But I'm sure you could gain more time by doing a bunch of work on the setup right vs. left on this car if you wanted.

Hope that helps.

hkraft300
22-06-2018, 21:11
Some road cars have hard/med/soft tires available. Think of them as regular street tires, high performance tires and street legal semi-slicks. They have grooves to disperse water. Semis give the best performance in the dry and are a soft compound but suck on a wet road. Road cars in the game have them.

Race slicks can be super grippy, short life tires (Pirelli F1 ultra-soft), like the tires on the formula Renault in the game. We also have endurance slicks that LMP and GTE/3 cars use that can be driven hard for 2+ hours. These are in the game too.

"Track" tires in the game we can assume are slicks on race cars. They are on a variety of vintage cars in the game, like the Vintage prototypes and Lotus F1. Not sure how they play out, but not relevant to the Diablo i believe.

sloppysmusic
22-06-2018, 22:23
Pressures 1.4 front, 1.26 rear (bar). Hot they were reaching about 1.75 and seemed stable there
Brake pressure 85%, but I had to put the front ducts 90%, and rears 100% (otherwise brakes really overheating)
Downforce 6 (didn't change)
Front camber -2.8, rear -2.0. Rear could not go more camber, and I found that the rear tires I still had the outside temps a bit higher than the inside. Only a few deg different, but I was surprised that there was no way for me to put enough camber to get the inside temps higher than outside.
Ride Height front 84mm, rear 94mm. Watch the telemetry at speed, the rear gets really low so you need more rear ride height to offset this.
Spring rate front 190, rear 190.
ARB front 75, rear 45.
Toe I didn't change -0.1 front, 0.3 rear.
Dampers I didn't mess with.
Engine braking 10.
Traction control 9%, ABS 80%
For the Diff, I only changed the power to 60, coast 40.
.

Thanks man, you def right about setting up the left different to the right, can't believe that didn't occur to me earlier when I HAVE made such setups. Brain overload in my case!

Would it be kind of cool if there was a garage/showroom option for your car as well as for liveries and you could go through various tires there where the attributes of each tire would show. Like in real life.
Dry performance
Wet performance
Endurance
Recommended temperature range

You could still change them around as usual in the setup screen but dropping into the garage first you could have weighed up the various tire options for the track and made your logical choice there.

Off road tires would need their separate attributes of course.

blinkngone
23-06-2018, 00:54
Just ran my Silverstone National setup at Sugo. The F40 drafted me on the last lap and passed me at start finish, I think they do that on purpose, hang on your bumper until the last lap. I wasn't really able to push but no problem with the Hard tires. OOPS!! Sorry according to the setup I am running Default Loose only.
256622
Made another run a little harder. The AI seemed to give up??
256623
256624

blinkngone
23-06-2018, 01:56
Ok, Default Loose Sugo, ran against AI at 100. Messed up but there was no way I was going to catch the leader with Default setup. I am not sure you could beat the AI with a Custom setup at 100 but you could beat some of them.
256625
256626

sloppysmusic
23-06-2018, 02:07
Just ran my Silverstone National setup at Sugo. The F40 drafted me on the last lap and passed me at start finish, I think they do that on purpose, hang on your bumper until the last lap. I wasn't really able to push but no problem with the Hard tires. OOPS!! Sorry according to the setup I am running Default Loose only.

Made another run a little harder. The AI seemed to give up??

256624

Good job mate! That's 2 different tunes I will try when I change car next (deep in FA for my career right now)

You ran 5 seconds faster the 2nd race. Did you pull away from the drafting F40? I'm pretty sure the event itself is same VEHICLE, so that should be easier?

I noticed even with hards you have a LOT of wear on that front left after only 3 laps! I have never seen hard tires show that kind of wear before thrice that distance before. It means of course that the soft slick is NOT at fault. If anything was 'wrong' it would be the car itself then. Thanks for doing a different track Blink, hope no physical problems after that! I'd be interested if you have any more time if you could try Atak Kat's setup he used with soft tires and got minimal wear. Be excellent to see how the hards handle it.
Dude said he did TEN laps with softs?!?

This would be a cheap way to win a multi-player race...set a 10 lap race up use a good tune and everyone else is race over half way without pitting....even with hards if they use default setups.

Car had same problem at Algarve..same tire too. Be interesting to use your and kat's tune there see if I can get round next time. Haven't actually run any other tracks with it due to the problems with tire wear. It sounds like an interesting car to learn tuning with for a beginner as you can very quickly see when you get it wrong or right.

Do you think the car could survive a fast lap at the Nordschleiffe?
:D

Atak Kat
23-06-2018, 10:08
Now, I am dangerous. I learned how to save, edit, and share clips....:)

Sloppy, have a look here for my updated setup with some differences left vs right. 10 lap custom event with 10 identical cars (same as your original vid). AI 100, aggression 25, I was able to finish 4th (a couple dirty passes, but eh...), but with some shameful mistakes. 1st would be possible, with some practice and a clean drive. With 90 AI I had no issue to win, and was in 1st after about lap 5 or 6. My track and ambient temps might be a bit lower than yours. If it was much higher, I don't think I'd be able to turn the same lap times, but still be able to manage.

Fastest lap 1:24.3 (lap 9, btw)
I have no issue with the fronts. But you have to be gentle on the brakes to minimize the front locking. The brake balance to the rear is critical here.
Rears are the challenge to keep them planted. Need to be gentle out of the corners, because otherwise you overheat the rears quickly. I wish I could add more rear camber.
You can gain time on the AI out of the two right hand corners before the back straight, and also at the entry to the long right hander at the end of the lap (AI are slow on entry, but fast on the exit up the hill).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LGcACjFq2I

blinkngone
23-06-2018, 11:49
Hey, I'm just using Defaults, no changes. I think you need to adjust the brake bias rearward as Atak suggested, especially to make the right hairpin toward the end of sector 2. Yes the high speed right hander in sector 3 puts some pressure on the left front but this corner does too because all the weight is transferring onto that left front in the braking zone and it is a long one into this corner. Atak increased the front spring rate from the default 170 to 190 so this would help the left front at this corner. If the rest of the track can handle it you could go higher. I am using the Default date of 4/27/2017.
256651

sloppysmusic
24-06-2018, 00:31
In the following post I mentioned I had started to use brake bias 50/50 which had solved half the problem, the rest by camber and driving smoother. Is this the amount you mean or you mean MORE in the rear than 50/50?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?63888-So-sick-of-tire-issues-what-am-I-doing-wrong&p=1522142&viewfull=1#post1522142

blinkngone
24-06-2018, 00:42
In the following post I mentioned I had started to use brake bias 50/50 which had solved half the problem, the rest by camber and driving smoother. Is this the amount you mean or you mean MORE in the rear than 50/50?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?63888-So-sick-of-tire-issues-what-am-I-doing-wrong&p=1522142&viewfull=1#post1522142

Hey sloppys, not sure if you are asking me but yes more rearward, I would go at least 48/52 to start. Atak uses more "So first thing I did was adjust the brake balance to be 40%front, 60% rear. I don't think I've driven other cars with that sort of bb, but this is what i needed to keep the fronts from locking too much, and get decent braking similar to what the AI were doing."

poirqc
24-06-2018, 03:20
I was able to pull a 1:23.xxx in TT with Softs. However, TT is the ideal situation because outdoor temp is in the 20 C. Track temp is around 30 C so the Softs works really well there! I could even used 100% brake pressure without too much trouble.

In a race where Hards need to be used, I had trouble running 1.25.xxx and locking was a problem.

I'll try to do a custom race the same date and time as TT to see how Softs fare in a race.

Bonus tip. This car positive Rake a lot. With close to or default spring and dampers, the car needs 115 rear and 87 front to be even height when accelerating. I didn't knew that yet when I did my WR.

sloppysmusic
24-06-2018, 03:43
I was able to pull a 1:23.xxx in TT with Softs. However, TT is the ideal situation because outdoor temp is in the 20 C. Track temp is around 30 C so the Softs works really well there! I could even used 100% brake pressure without too much trouble.

In a race where Hards need to be used, I had trouble running 1.25.xxx and locking was a problem.

I'll try to do a custom race the same date and time as TT to see how Softs fare in a race.

Bonus tip. This car positive Rake a lot. With close to or default spring and dampers, the car needs 115 rear and 87 front to be even height when accelerating. I didn't knew that yet when I did my WR.

More useful info thanks! Yes TT gives you false confidence with this car. You can push however you like and make a fast time but the moment you enter race conditions there's a lot of work to be done! I'm looking forward to seeing what all your great minds are going to come up with to bring out the best in this car.

blinkngone
24-06-2018, 10:27
Hey, I think the AI let me win with the settings I am using. It doesn't seem to matter what lap time I run. I might get a single bump at the end of the start finish straight on the 2nd lap but from there they back off until they charge on the last lap letting me win by a little. So 100 isn't a problem and maybe you need to just bump up the aggression to get them to race you. I've only lost once to the Ferrari.
256690
256691

poirqc
24-06-2018, 11:06
More useful info thanks! Yes TT gives you false confidence with this car. You can push however you like and make a fast time but the moment you enter race conditions there's a lot of work to be done! I'm looking forward to seeing what all your great minds are going to come up with to bring out the best in this car.

I wasn't too hard on the tires. The front left would cool down quickly enough after the long bend. It wasn't too bad durability wise.


Hey, I think the AI let me win with the settings I am using. It doesn't seem to matter what lap time I run. I might get a single bump at the end of the start finish straight on the 2nd lap but from there they back off until they charge on the last lap letting me win by a little. So 100 isn't a problem and maybe you need to just bump up the aggression to get them to race you. I've only lost once to the Ferrari.


I did it the other way around. AI 90/100 again. Starting last(No qualification). In those condition, the AI(Whole class) were doing 1:23/24 so they were just going away! I was able to catch some at first, but they eventually all went away.

Your probably right that they 'Let you win'. Theorycally, they shouldn't be going 1.28 at 100 when they're doing 1.24 at 90. Agression seems to play a good deal here.

Atak Kat
24-06-2018, 11:24
Hey, I think the AI let me win with the settings I am using. It doesn't seem to matter what lap time I run. I might get a single bump at the end of the start finish straight on the 2nd lap but from there they back off until they charge on the last lap letting me win by a little. So 100 isn't a problem and maybe you need to just bump up the aggression to get them to race you. I've only lost once to the Ferrari.

Strange. In my race (the vid I posted,10laps on the softs), I was using 100 skill and 25 Aggression.
AI were running 1.24s and 1.25s pretty consistently (at least I was, and it was tough to catch them). In your pic their best laps were 1.27 and 1.28?? I wonder why with lower aggression, their lap times would be faster (edited)?

blinkngone
24-06-2018, 12:44
Strange. In my race (the vid I posted,10laps on the softs), I was using 100 skill and 25 Aggression.
AI were running 1.24s and 1.25s pretty consistently (at least I was, and it was tough to catch them). In your pic their best laps were 1.27 and 1.28?? I wonder why with lower aggression, their lap times would be slower?

I don't know why but at 57 on PC the AI just want me to win. Maybe it is different based upon your platform, PC, PS4 or XBOX. They are not just slower they seem to adjust their pace based upon what I run. If I run 1:27 they will run 1;26 but still let me win. If I run 1:28 they slow way down so maybe this is to help people in Career to give them a chance to win even if they haven't driven the car before and are using Default setups. In your case you were running 1:24s so they ran 1;24s but with your aggression at only 25 they didn't beat up on you. As poirqc tested they might stomp you at higher aggression. So maybe the compromise way to set them up is to use a skill level of say 80/90 and aggression of 70/80 to get a better race? It seems there are a variety of options to win at Sugo in Custom Race mode. You can just use Default with high skill and medium aggression, just drive like it's Sunday on the way to church. Use softs and some tuning changes and run faster lap times but with lower aggression and still win.

Atak Kat
24-06-2018, 12:51
Maybe it's the Trulli-Train effect...
Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarno_Trulli) for those that may not know

blinkngone
24-06-2018, 13:00
Maybe it's the Trulli-Train effect...
Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarno_Trulli) for those that may not know
Not with my driving.:D I leave them plenty of room.;) I suppose if I could run more cars/laps things might be different but I managed to beat the F40 once.

sloppysmusic
25-06-2018, 02:28
Maybe it's the Trulli-Train effect...
Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarno_Trulli) for those that may not know

It's pretty standard to hold the AI off once you know their methods. Unless they are in open wheel or LMP cars with sudden acceleration. Once they are behind you they try to pick the line you are NOT taking, even if it may mean a collision. If you hang around middle of track for a little longer they may close in but wait till you commit to your corner line before passing. IF you chose that and brake late you can fool them for a while. Usually the only reason to do this is if your tires are shot and you are holding on to a lead towards end of race OR you set them at a higher AI rate than you can drive yourself. Any other time it's better to just try and outrace them.
I hope I live long enough to experience 2o racer races with FULL AI and tire/car behavior fully modeled like a human with adaptive learning. I'd even be happy if there was just ONE super driver you could go head to head against that got better as I got better so was always my equal. Not in a cheating way driving on rails like they do now but actually choosing lines and setups that gained them speed.

hkraft300
25-06-2018, 08:36
http://youtu.be/kh00GAx66sA

Reckon they need some help from sms.

Carso
03-07-2018, 05:25
That youtube video is a nice one