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View Full Version : Valve coughed up some game numbers...



Scott Coffey
07-07-2018, 12:52
It seems someone was able to hack Valve's API to get extremely accurate player numbers (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/07/steam-data-leak-reveals-precise-player-count-for-thousands-of-games/). The breach has since been fixed, but a .csv file is available for download, and according to the figures listed:

Project Cars.......974,136
Project Cars 2... 264,945

Man, that's a massive drop. I blame it on reduced participation in the second game along with no stakeholders. The community promoted the heck out of the first game with a long run-up to release. The second game was rushed out on an early release that surprised everyone, and the resultant steaming pile of bugs probably put off a lot of folks.

Maybe the console side of things looks better, but the PC side is pretty dismal compared to the previous title.

Azure Flare
07-07-2018, 13:04
The second game was rushed out on an early release that surprised everyone

Your name is in green, so you should know how it was during development.

drathuu
07-07-2018, 13:05
Agreed Azure on your "Green comment" - Not sure how much Mr Coffey contributed... it may also be because the arcade players.. cant come to grips with the better driving model in pc2.. and that also their hardware is likely lower, so the game doesnt run well. Not everyone has upgraded equipment

UkHardcore23
07-07-2018, 13:13
It seems someone was able to hack Valve's API to get extremely accurate player numbers (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/07/steam-data-leak-reveals-precise-player-count-for-thousands-of-games/). The breach has since been fixed, but a .csv file is available for download, and according to the figures listed:

Project Cars.......974,136
Project Cars 2... 264,945

Man, that's a massive drop. I blame it on reduced participation in the second game along with no stakeholders. The community promoted the heck out of the first game with a long run-up to release. The second game was rushed out on an early release that surprised everyone, and the resultant steaming pile of bugs probably put off a lot of folks.

Maybe the console side of things looks better, but the PC side is pretty dismal compared to the previous title.
I doubt the console sales are anywhere near as big as PCARS as it dropped out of the pal and american charts rapid.

I think its due to the first game having so many issues.

Not sure where SMS go from here to stop the decline...PCARS 3 or a new ip. They have to get a game and nail it from release not 6-12 months down the line. Gamers are fickle these days and are not so easy at pleasing than they were in the 90s and 00's. I just hope PCARS2 was profitable.

Whatever happened to the arcade racer they were making? Was sure we would of seen it at E3

balderz002
07-07-2018, 13:23
I fail to see the point of this really. Those figures mean nothing to me as when i get to play, I enjoy it.

I think i can guess the OP's viewpoint on the game with his statements.

David Wright
07-07-2018, 13:32
It seems someone was able to hack Valve's API to get extremely accurate player numbers (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/07/steam-data-leak-reveals-precise-player-count-for-thousands-of-games/). The breach has since been fixed, but a .csv file is available for download, and according to the figures listed:

Project Cars.......974,136
Project Cars 2... 264,945

Man, that's a massive drop. I blame it on reduced participation in the second game along with no stakeholders. The community promoted the heck out of the first game with a long run-up to release. The second game was rushed out on an early release that surprised everyone, and the resultant steaming pile of bugs probably put off a lot of folks.

Maybe the console side of things looks better, but the PC side is pretty dismal compared to the previous title.

You are comparing a game which has been on sale for almost 10 months with a game on sale for 38 months. It may be surprising but sales are very price sensitive and strong when they hit the bargain bucket. According to Steamspy PCARS1 had sold around 240,000 copies in its first 6 months while PC2 was around 200,000.

In terms of average player numbers from launch, PC2 is very similar to PC1 (source Steamcharts)

Project Cars 2 Project Cars 1

June 2018 1,175.1 February 2016 1,014.3
May 2018 914.2 January 2016 1,123.0
April 2018 904.5 December 2015 1,056.8
March 2018 1,036.5 November 2015 926.7
February 2018 978.6 October 2015 1,003.6
January 2018 1,014.4 September 2015 1,139.5
December 2017 1,172.3 August 2015 1,026.9
November 2017 1,020.0 July 2015 1,176.5
October 2017 1,515.3 June 2015 1,737.6
September 2017 2,974.8 May 2015 2,674.6

cluck
07-07-2018, 14:00
You also have to factor in that those aren't 'sales' figures, they are the number of people who have owned the game at some point. Steam's 'free weekends' will skew a game's figures on Steam quite dramatically and IIRC, pCARS1 has had more than one of those (including one only very recently).

As for the point about reduced participation second-time around, I sincerely doubt that has much to do with it in all honesty. Project CARS was an unknown entity first time around, by the time the second game was released the name was already known, it didn't need that huge amount of hype from day 1 of development :).

cpcdem
07-07-2018, 14:00
It's very strange that no Need for Speed games are included in the list. Those games all do have achievements, so they should had been data available for them, right?

blinkngone
07-07-2018, 14:46
Well to me PCars 1 was a revolution! So much so that I deleted all my Codemasters games and AC as well. PCars 2 was an earthquake with all the advanced features but faced more competition , with the original game, AC release to consoles and GT Sport with it's build in mega launch sales. Couple that with the new game requiring much more involvement by the driver to get the most from it and it shouldn't be unexpected.

UkHardcore23
07-07-2018, 15:50
We knew when PCARS hit 1 million and 2 million sales

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/project-cars-sales-pass-1-million-worldwide-1504702

https://www.slightlymadstudios.com/project-cars-powers-to-2-million-units-sold


Once PCARS 2 hits 1 million wel hear about it.

David Wright
07-07-2018, 17:02
We knew when PCARS hit 1 million and 2 million sales

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/project-cars-sales-pass-1-million-worldwide-1504702

https://www.slightlymadstudios.com/project-cars-powers-to-2-million-units-sold


Once PCARS 2 hits 1 million wel hear about it.

I don't think we will. When PC1 hit 1 million sales on all platforms, Steamspy indicated 160,000 sales on PC. I find it hard to believe that when PC2 has hit 265,000 sales on PC that sales on all platforms have not already exceeded 1 million.

bubbleguuum
07-07-2018, 18:06
Looks like the days of the huge complicated sim with zillions cars, zillions tracks, zillions features and adequate production values (read: expensive) in a single gigantic package supposed to cater from casuals to hardcore is over.
Unless you are Forza or GT (simcade appealing to masses with insane budgets and production values), I do not see how it can be economically viable. Proper sims (including PC2) will always remain niche compare to these.
My bet is that we'll see newer sims focusing in specific series (this is already initiated by ACC) and paid tracks/circuits (that's what rFactor is doing among others).

OddTimer
07-07-2018, 19:00
Looks like the days of the huge complicated sim with zillions cars, zillions tracks, zillions features and adequate production values (read: expensive) in a single gigantic package supposed to cater from casuals to hardcore is over.
Unless you are Forza or GT (simcade appealing to masses with insane budgets and production values), I do not see how it can be economically viable. Proper sims (including PC2) will always remain niche compare to these.
My bet is that we'll see newer sims focusing in specific series (this is already initiated by ACC) and paid tracks/circuits (that's what rFactor is doing among others).

And even Forza and GT are struggling. Games like Forza Horizon seem to be the new thing. SIMs will continue to be niche, not sure what the business model will be like or what SMS will do in the future though. Look at AC and Kunos. They are going single class using most assets they already have.

David Wright
07-07-2018, 19:41
While you may well be right about the demise of the 1000 car racing game, Kunos are a much smaller development team than SMS let alone Turn 10 or Polyphony. They are getting to know a new game engine and have limited experience of day/night, dynamic tracks and wet weather. Concentrating on GT3 for ACC makes sense. AC has an impressive car rosta and an OK track rosta but they were built up over several years.

Although Kunos have previously downplayed the importance of on-line racing, with the success of iRacing and Gran Turismo also moving to scheduled races with ranking, it seems they are changing their mind with ACC. Concentrating all your on-line players on one class of car should make ranked scheduled on-line races feasible.

davidt33
07-07-2018, 20:22
I much prefer Pcars 2 than Pcars1 actually. To me it just keeps getting better and better.
I like Pcars 2 so much I don't even play GTsports although I have it from inception. It's just on the side there.

UkHardcore23
07-07-2018, 20:37
I don't think we will. When PC1 hit 1 million sales on all platforms, Steamspy indicated 160,000 sales on PC. I find it hard to believe that when PC2 has hit 265,000 sales on PC that sales on all platforms have not already exceeded 1 million.

Its not 265k sales though.

Plus the PS4 version sold incredibly well way more than PC and Xbox...this time it was up against GT

MrTulip
07-07-2018, 21:08
Console is the thing that brings food on the table. Not Steam sales. It was so with PCARS1 and I don't see why it would differ with PCARS2. We are talking about sale numbers five to ten times more for consoles against PC for PCARS1, and I don't think that the situation has changed.

It may be that PCARS2 hasn't sold as much on consoles initially compared to first one, having been released at the same time with Forza and GT Sport. However, those games have been measured already and hype is out of their sails; both gamers and sim racers simply crave more than what they have to offer. PCARS2 does exactly that, so I expect long tail in sales on the consoles. Think about it; PCARS2 can sell all the way until next big car game Forza and GT on both consoles.
Admittedly ACC may disrupt this logic a bit, but just a bit, as its roster is too small for everyone to feel content with.

Regarding 1000 cars games and Polyphony changing its tune with GT Sport; Have they really? We've seen this before; GT Academy and GT Prologue did not differ that much from GT Sport. I'd assume that Polyphony will release a fully fledged Gran Turismo game when it is ready, and Sony has infinite pockets to make that happen as long as they see it as a way to sell a big bunch of consoles along with it.
It just takes incredibly long time to make, just like it last time did, so it is just natural to expand Academy / Prologue line multiplayer a notch, and use the next GT game assets there to promote the series.

UkHardcore23
07-07-2018, 22:54
ACC is PC only. Crazy decison as if it were PS4 only it would sell much more.

Mad LL
07-07-2018, 23:00
Thanks for the article Scott.

pCARS1 SteamSpy estimates for the same period (mid Feb '16) were around 350K (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32926-How-are-sales-figures-holding-up&p=1257354#post1257354).

Despite the sequel being a better game IMO, I would first attribute the drop to the curiosity factor being gone the second time around. I also think consoles sales were hit further because of the much less favorable launch window (hard to share the cake with GT Sport and Forza 7).

FS7
08-07-2018, 00:08
Number of cars & tracks is relative, if SMS were to count each livery as a different car like GT does PCars would have 1000+ cars, if SMS were to count night/wet versions of each track as different tracks like Forza does PCars would have hundreds of track layouts. Personally I'm more interested in having different car classes that are interesting to drive than having hundreds of boring cars I'll never use.

As for sales numbers we have to take into account PCars2 has been out for less than 1 year and PCars1 GOTY has been on sale for really cheap several times iirc. Once all of PCars2' DLC is released and the price goes down I'm sure sales will increase.

cpcdem
08-07-2018, 01:44
Also another point is that for PC1 some percentage of sales money was given back to people who funded the development, while PC2 is home-financed. I have no idea how much this percentage was, but if it was high enough, then it means that PC2 could end up being even more profitable than PC1 for SMS, even with less sales. Which is of course a very good thing as it could finance further development, fixes etc.

David Wright
08-07-2018, 07:04
Thanks for the article Scott.

pCARS1 SteamSpy estimates for the same period (mid Feb '16) were around 350K (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32926-How-are-sales-figures-holding-up&p=1257354#post1257354).

Despite the sequel being a better game IMO, I would first attribute the drop to the curiosity factor being gone the second time around. I also think consoles sales were hit further because of the much less favorable launch window (hard to share the cake with GT Sport and Forza 7).

Thanks for posting the steamspy chart. Another possible factor to add to the list could be price. Your chart reminded me that PC1 was $50 while PC2 is $60. When you consider the extra content the price seems fair but a 20% increase surely can't have boosted sales, especially with AC being a fraction of the price.

UkHardcore23
08-07-2018, 10:08
Also another point is that for PC1 some percentage of sales money was given back to people who funded the development, while PC2 is home-financed. I have no idea how much this percentage was, but if it was high enough, then it means that PC2 could end up being even more profitable than PC1 for SMS, even with less sales. Which is of course a very good thing as it could finance further development, fixes etc.

Great news, As long as PCARS 2 is profitable and SMS can do more games im happy.

Raklodder
08-07-2018, 12:24
I do get the impression the game was rushed by the publisher (not blaming the developers) and key people were lost during the transition, but I can only speculate since I'm not part of WMD or the dev-team.

Azure Flare
08-07-2018, 15:25
I do get the impression the game was rushed by the publisher (not blaming the developers) and key people were lost during the transition, but I can only speculate since I'm not part of WMD or the dev-team.

I don't recall anyone leaving SMS during development, but I do remember a release date of September 22nd was leaked, and they decided to aim for that day.

B1rdy
09-07-2018, 10:49
Gamers are fickle these days and are not so easy at pleasing than they were in the 90s and 00's.You don't even need to be "frickle" to experience glaring, obvious and fundamental bugs of PCars 1 and 2. Part one has been an applicable warning sign to its successor - unfortunately.

Mahjik
09-07-2018, 13:15
I had posted this before, as this topic has come up more than once....



I'm not surprised to see fewer sales. PC1 was a Mindcraft.. i.e. no one expected it to sell the way it did. However, a lot of sales were because people expected something that it wasn't:


It wasn't a "grinding" game where you grinded to get money to upgrade cars.
It wasn't a car collecting game with 600 cars (with 200 of the same but slightly different versions of the same car)
It wasn't Burnout where you could just go balls out all the time


People now know what it isn't and they likely won't get those buyers back. However, it is converting a lot of people who never gave PC1 a chance. Those won't make up for the ones that want grinding and collecting though so I'm not surprised at all with the lower initial sales.

Red Leader
09-07-2018, 16:15
Execution and word-of-mouth are permanent factors when it comes to sales figures and player counts.

I truly enjoy the game, but it's hard to ignore how rough the initial release.

Mahjik
09-07-2018, 16:19
I truly enjoy the game, but it's hard to ignore how rough the initial release.

As someone who was moderating the forums during PC1, I can state (and backup what Ian's has said many times) the PC2 release was a lot smoother than the PC1 release.

Red Leader
09-07-2018, 16:46
As someone who was moderating the forums during PC1, I can state (and backup what Ian's has said many times) the PC2 release was a lot smoother than the PC1 release.

Yikes, and I don't doubt it since that's usually the case for 1st iteration software. I actually never played PC1 and can only comment on PC2's release from the consumer perspective.

Mahjik
09-07-2018, 17:03
The market is different now than when PC1 came out. There was no Forza on PC, rF2 and AC were WIP... You mainly had the dated graphic engines of the "old sims" in which PC1 showed a new light on graphics for racing sims. Now the market has release versions of AC and rF2. Automobilista and Race Room. Forza is now on PC. These are all taking market share away as not everyone purchases "all" racing titles. Consoles also battled new releases of their flagship racing titles.

shiftee
09-07-2018, 17:05
All I hope is that it sold enough copies to guarantee Pcars 3. By that time it should be on the next generation of consoles, which should not hold it back so much on PC like Pcars2 did. The next consoles are expected to have a drastic bump in CPU, so hopefully the AI can be expanded and the crazy pop in and other distance graphical issues can be eliminated.

I LOVE Live track, but look forward to a sequel where the AI acknowledges it also. Puddles affecting them, they change their driving line to avoid the ones they can, wet/snow/transitions/drying lines all affect the AI accurately out of the box. A man can dream! and if that fails, just give me a big graphical leap and a ton of beautiful tarmac tracks and I will be happy :D on the other hand, I will be crushed if I have to go to another racing series and this one dies out..hope they announce Pcars3 at some point like they did Pcars2..

sirio994
09-07-2018, 17:38
The market is different now than when PC1 came out. There was no Forza on PC, rF2 and AC were WIP... You mainly had the dated graphic engines of the "old sims" in which PC1 showed a new light on graphics for racing sims. Now the market has release versions of AC and rF2. Automobilista and Race Room. Forza is now on PC. These are all taking market share away as not everyone purchases "all" racing titles. Consoles also battled new releases of their flagship racing titles.

I agree. For example i bought them all. I own every racing games on console of the past 2-3 years so essentially i count zero in a comparison. That's the reason why i don't like comparisons based on sold copies: there are high chances that the average PC2 user has a copy of GT Sport or Forza and low chances that the average GT/Forza user has a PC2/AC copy. They cover different markets and the intersections are almost all in favour of GT and Forza...

Scott Coffey
09-07-2018, 18:04
As someone who was moderating the forums during PC1, I can state (and backup what Ian's has said many times) the PC2 release was a lot smoother than the PC1 release.

Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

You didn't have to be moderating the forums to judge the difference in game quality at rollout. PC1 was miles ahead of PC2 in terms of completeness, playablity and lack of major bugs. Within a couple of months of release of PC1 we had patch 3.0 which pretty much fixed most of the outstanding issues... at least the ones that were ever going to get fixed. Contrast that to where we are on PC2. It ain't pretty.

Not sure why Ian said what he did about number of bugs. SMS has the metrics, they know exactly what the numbers are.

TorTorden
09-07-2018, 18:12
All I hope is that it sold enough copies to guarantee Pcars 3. By that time it should be on the next generation of consoles, which should not hold it back so much on PC like Pcars2 did. The next consoles are expected to have a drastic bump in CPU, so hopefully the AI can be expanded and the crazy pop in and other distance graphical issues can be eliminated.

I LOVE Live track, but look forward to a sequel where the AI acknowledges it also. Puddles affecting them, they change their driving line to avoid the ones they can, wet/snow/transitions/drying lines all affect the AI accurately out of the box. A man can dream! and if that fails, just give me a big graphical leap and a ton of beautiful tarmac tracks and I will be happy :D on the other hand, I will be crushed if I have to go to another racing series and this one dies out..hope they announce Pcars3 at some point like they did Pcars2..

I just wish the AI would acknowledge me to many times I end up in the wall because some AI rams into me.
And often the offending AI right next to me.

Aggression is one thing. This is borderline moronic behaviour.

Mahjik
09-07-2018, 18:57
You didn't have to be moderating the forums to judge the difference in game quality at rollout.

Actually, the moderating aspect provided a greater visibility. From a user standpoint, most people only focus on what affects them. For example, as a PC user, how much were you aware of the issues on the consoles?



PC1 was miles ahead of PC2 in terms of completeness, playablity and lack of major bugs. Within a couple of months of release of PC1 we had patch 3.0 which pretty much fixed most of the outstanding issues... at least the ones that were ever going to get fixed. Contrast that to where we are on PC2. It ain't pretty.

I can't say I agree with you. I understand that you are frustrated with certain issues that you experience that you wish were addressed. However, that doesn't taint the numberacial aspect of "issues". I believe the difference for you is that you are directly affected with more issues in PC2 than you were with PC1. There is no question that PC1 came out of the gate with a lot more issues than PC2. PC2 is also a lot more stable. The mods here spent a lot of time working with PC1 crashes as compared to PC2.



Not sure why Ian said what he did about number of bugs. SMS has the metrics, they know exactly what the numbers are.

Which is exactly why he said what he said.

Tank621
09-07-2018, 19:09
As someone who was moderating the forums during PC1, I can state (and backup what Ian's has said many times) the PC2 release was a lot smoother than the PC1 release.
I will vouch for this also, as someone who played both titles at launch PC2 was much much smoother

I remember one common and very irritattiong bug on PC1 where if you chamged your steering input too quickly it would get stuck on full lock and there was nothing that could be done to change it for 5, 10 seconds afterwards

B1rdy
10-07-2018, 10:59
Yikes, and I don't doubt it since that's usually the case for 1st iteration software.It is not, SMS did several racing games before. Like Need For Speed Shift 1 and 2. It is not like they were starting at 0 with PCars 1.

Tank621
10-07-2018, 11:10
Though they did have EA resources and backing for Shift and Shift 2 and now they are pretty much on their own

Konan
10-07-2018, 13:01
It is not, SMS did several racing games before. Like Need For Speed Shift 1 and 2. It is not like they were starting at 0 with PCars 1.

Well actually they were...considering all the first off features the game had they really took a stab in the dark...

beetes_juice
10-07-2018, 20:26
Well actually they were...considering all the first off features the game had they really took a stab in the dark...

Those "first off" features were in GTR2. Weather, LT (in its infancy), competent AI, large car roster, day/night transitions, etc. BRING BACK DRIVING SCHOOL.

On Topic, word of mouth is massive on the interwebs. PC1 release did not do SMS any favors. Most of my interactions when mentioning PC2 during the lead up to release was met with skepticism, flames, jokes, or just a general lack of interest. Will be interesting to see how other sims handle releases moving forward. Rf2 slowly releasing expansion packs, Rf2/AMS teaming up with content, GTS going faux iRacing, ACC with a narrow focus for details, FM has something up their sleeve (maybe service), and iRacing just chugging along releasing content under their scheduled race/service/subscription model. Whatever the hell it is.

Sims need constant attention - tweaks in BoP, new cars/tracks, track limit changes, tire model advances, car physics, etc to keep the sim alive and fresh, not just fixing bugs. And on the other side sim devs need a constant revenue stream to give the sim attention. While I appreciate all the work done by devs after the release I don't think I got the full attention it deserved. Whos to say it is over though. There is a good reason GTS, FM (possibly), and ACC are more or less building their own version of iRacing. They are setting themselves up for success and the future of sim racing - the esport aspect. Esports and the racing as a service go hand in hand in my eyes. Unless I've been living in a cave (guess man cave counts) I've never seen so much racing esport stuffed in my face the past 2-3 years. Been on the rise since PC1 came out but I think its going to come to a head in the next 1-2 years. Is PC2 setup for this, in a favorable format? I don't know.

I was all for the one and done type sim for a while but after giving some others a go the past few months I've changed tune. In the future, I don't see how a sim can succeed long term for both drivers and devs without a "service" type model.

MrTulip
10-07-2018, 21:29
Cutting off content works both ways. It can also mean that the "as a service" game can be killed off faster if it does not fly. ACC is not properly out yet so we'll see how it goes, although I don't particularly expect it to fail should it just do well all GT3 aspects with enough tracks to go with. They'll certainly take interest from sim crowd who for some reason don't consider GT as a sim.

iRacing is the true pioneer of this type and I give it credit for it. Actually I gave quite a lot of that to them during the years. However, it wasn't developed in a way I hoped, so I eventually cancelled my sub after supporting it for couple of extra years (even after I had already stopped playing it). It still isn't the sim I hoped it to be.

Just pointing out how SIM as a Service may and can fail from the customer point of view. I also don't think that iRacing was/is huge commercial success story; to me it looked like the development dwindled exactly because it didn't bring in enough money, and they simply kept themselves a float by releasing new tracks and cars at high price, without changing much else. All progress has been slow at best. Sometimes I think I should check it out again, but couple of videos are enough to convince me that yes, they still haven't budgeted for visuals at least.

Sampo
10-07-2018, 23:59
On Topic, word of mouth is massive on the interwebs. PC1 release did not do SMS any favors. Most of my interactions when mentioning PC2 during the lead up to release was met with skepticism, flames, jokes, or just a general lack of interest.

I think this was because of the WMD, which was too much for a number of people to understand. They were let go and then proceeded to badmouth everything about the game and the developers. People tend to believe anything that's posted on the web that sounds plausible given their earlier experiences (lack of patches to Shift series and so on). WMD was great for me, but I think that after the lies that some people spread around about SMS and the game, SMS has now decided to be like other developers and not comment on the forums any more. I miss the openness. Another example of a small number of people ruining it for others. Grrrr!

Urban Chaos 2.0
02-01-2019, 22:05
I think this was because of the WMD, which was too much for a number of people to understand. They were let go and then proceeded to badmouth everything about the game and the developers.

Tell me more.

Konan
03-01-2019, 03:46
Tell me more.

I'll explain it like they think:

Join WMD - > do something against the rules - > get kicked off WMD - > bad mouth SMS

Edit: mind you, there are exceptions to this rule...

REXPITVIPER1
06-01-2019, 05:24
Looks like the days of the huge complicated sim with zillions cars, zillions tracks, zillions features and adequate production values (read: expensive) in a single gigantic package supposed to cater from casuals to hardcore is over.
Unless you are Forza or GT (simcade appealing to masses with insane budgets and production values), I do not see how it can be economically viable. Proper sims (including PC2) will always remain niche compare to these.
My bet is that we'll see newer sims focusing in specific series (this is already initiated by ACC) and paid tracks/circuits (that's what rFactor is doing among others).

you do understand that the racing genre has took a slight dip in plays after the early 00's and then massivly dropped once FPS and MMO's became the medias attention.

REXPITVIPER1
06-01-2019, 05:34
I think this was because of the WMD, which was too much for a number of people to understand. They were let go and then proceeded to badmouth everything about the game and the developers. People tend to believe anything that's posted on the web that sounds plausible given their earlier experiences (lack of patches to Shift series and so on). WMD was great for me, but I think that after the lies that some people spread around about SMS and the game, SMS has now decided to be like other developers and not comment on the forums anymore. I miss the openness. Another example of a small number of people ruining it for others. Grrrr!

*Flashbacks to the whole DICE/EA BF5 Debacle*