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BigDad
17-07-2018, 12:21
WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Funny or scary ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXeMoBPSDk

Invincible
17-07-2018, 13:07
WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Funny or scary ?


Neither. Just a (slightly) exaggerated satire. The discussion it will be causing is necessary, but will most likely be banned (the discussion, not the OP) on this forum.

BigDad
17-07-2018, 13:12
Neither. Just a (slightly) exaggerated satire. The discussion it will be causing is necessary, but will most likely be banned (the discussion, not the OP) on this forum.

Yeah i wasn't to sure if i could even post it !
I started looking for the rules then decided i'll just wait and find out soon enough anyway ;)

cpcdem
17-07-2018, 16:50
I think the most worrying thing is that if you think about it, it's practically all of the world, more or less all countries are being ruled by such people, willing to do/say anything when they have a reason for it. And IMHO even more worrying that still a lot of people do not realize this.

Christiaan van Beilen
17-07-2018, 18:09
Neither. Just a (slightly) exaggerated satire. The discussion it will be causing is necessary, but will most likely be banned (the discussion, not the OP) on this forum.

It is exaggerated satire, but it's scary to think how many people will be agreement with it rather than seeing it as satire. I can hardly see it as funny but rather disturbing that this discussion needs satire to this extend to try to show some people the error of their ways.

That said, I applaud good ol' Borat/Ali G impressionist Sasha Cohen for having the balls to do this.

davidt33
17-07-2018, 20:46
That makeup is really outstanding. Didn't recognise him.

Schnizz58
17-07-2018, 21:51
Funny or scary?
Well, it's SBC, so that rules out funny. Scary that anybody believes disarming innocent people is an effective strategy to protect innocent people.


It is exaggerated satire, but it's scary to think how many people will be agreement with it rather than seeing it as satire. I can hardly see it as funny but rather disturbing that this discussion needs satire to this extend to try to show some people the error of their ways.
Seems like it would do just the opposite by supporting those who would revoke our constitutional rights.

[Also this reminded me that I need to renew my NRA membership. Thanks!]

Tank621
17-07-2018, 21:58
I'd join in on this chat but seeing as the forum rules say no politics I don't think that is wise, if I start talking about Politics, you won't be able to stop me lmao

UkHardcore23
18-07-2018, 00:07
Just finished watching the programme...oh man that blonde bird i bet is a right wee dirty!

Looks like hes kinda ran out of ideas though as it just felt i was watching Ali G from 20 years ago again.

Christiaan van Beilen
18-07-2018, 08:11
Well, it's SBC, so that rules out funny. Scary that anybody believes disarming innocent people is an effective strategy to protect innocent people.


Seems like it would do just the opposite by supporting those who would revoke our constitutional rights.

[Also this reminded me that I need to renew my NRA membership. Thanks!]

That constitution needs an amendment, as you were allowed those arms to fight against a tyrannical government. Which was fine in the days of muskets, but won't help you much in a time of drones and guided weaponry.
Australia is a prime example where shootings happened, they all handed in their guns and it became peaceful.
Weapons were designed for killing, but when you have them locked into a mandatory weapons safe than it won't help you much in killing another in self defense.

Also look at the rest of the world. Comparatively it is a rather peaceful place in the parts where there aren't any guns. With Japan being a prime example as they also truly understand what respect is on many different levels, and how to live together as a society. Japan, a country that for many centuries only had wars raging within and has only become peaceful after WW2.

Feel free to do what you want in your country but in my opinion adding more killing devices won't solve the issue. For us on the outside, or at least for myself, we will just end up seeing you as still a "wild west". A country I wouldn't feel safe in, I didn't 10 years ago and this will only be worse. Plus 30 years ago my aunt had to step over bodies lying on the street there.

Good luck with the shootings though, however you will stop it from happening. Albeit I am sure we will still get a dozen more at this rate.

Invincible
18-07-2018, 08:15
Scary that anybody believes arming people is an effective strategy to protect innocent people.


Ftfy

morpwr
18-07-2018, 11:07
That constitution needs an amendment, as you were allowed those arms to fight against a tyrannical government. Which was fine in the days of muskets, but won't help you much in a time of drones and guided weaponry.
Australia is a prime example where shootings happened, they all handed in their guns and it became peaceful.
Weapons were designed for killing, but when you have them locked into a mandatory weapons safe than it won't help you much in killing another in self defense.

Also look at the rest of the world. Comparatively it is a rather peaceful place in the parts where there aren't any guns. With Japan being a prime example as they also truly understand what respect is on many different levels, and how to live together as a society. Japan, a country that for many centuries only had wars raging within and has only become peaceful after WW2.

Feel free to do what you want in your country but in my opinion adding more killing devices won't solve the issue. For us on the outside, or at least for myself, we will just end up seeing you as still a "wild west". A country I wouldn't feel safe in, I didn't 10 years ago and this will only be worse. Plus 30 years ago my aunt had to step over bodies lying on the street there.

Good luck with the shootings though, however you will stop it from happening. Albeit I am sure we will still get a dozen more at this rate.


While I don't agree we should take peoples guns away. I do think our media has a major role in glamorizing it after the first one happened years ago and was on the news for weeks. All they did was talk about the shooters for close to a month. In my opinion they should say nothing about them and this wouldn't look like a way to go out in a blaze of glory. Its one of the biggest reason it has escalated here. But I do agree we need stricter gun laws. There is no reason anybody should be allowed to walk into a store and walk out with a gun. If it takes two weeks for a complete background check so what and most of my friends that own guns agree with this. I don't hunt or own guns but I do know how to use them being brought up around them. Its just not something that interested me. The other major problem is the amount of illegal guns and how easy it is to get them. Many are stolen because people don't store them in a gun safe like they should so if someone breaks into a house,business whatever and they find a gun it theirs. That along with the fact somehow people have lost the value of another persons life. Whatever happened to the days of ill meet you outside of school? You fought someone lost and that was the end. You didn't bring a gun....

Christiaan van Beilen
18-07-2018, 11:27
While I don't agree we should take peoples guns away. I do think our media has a major role in glamorizing it after the first one happened years ago and was on the news for weeks. All they did was talk about the shooters for close to a month. In my opinion they should say nothing about them and this wouldn't look like a way to go out in a blaze of glory. Its one of the biggest reason it has escalated here. But I do agree we need stricter gun laws. There is no reason anybody should be allowed to walk into a store and walk out with a gun. If it takes two weeks for a complete background check so what and most of my friends that own guns agree with this. I don't hunt or own guns but I do know how to use them being brought up around them. Its just not something that interested me. The other major problem is the amount of illegal guns and how easy it is to get them. Many are stolen because people don't store them in a gun safe like they should so if someone breaks into a house,business whatever and they find a gun it theirs. That along with the fact somehow people have lost the value of another persons life. Whatever happened to the days of ill meet you outside of school? You fought someone lost and that was the end. You didn't bring a gun....

Agreed, mind if I post this one?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylLIiT2p57E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFb5Qgrn9ns

Invincible
18-07-2018, 11:28
While I don't agree we should take peoples guns away. I do think our media has a major role in glamorizing it after the first one happened years ago and was on the news for weeks. All they did was talk about the shooters for close to a month. In my opinion they should say nothing about them and this wouldn't look like a way to go out in a blaze of glory. Its one of the biggest reason it has escalated here. But I do agree we need stricter gun laws. There is no reason anybody should be allowed to walk into a store and walk out with a gun. If it takes two weeks for a complete background check so what and most of my friends that own guns agree with this. I don't hunt or own guns but I do know how to use them being brought up around them. Its just not something that interested me. The other major problem is the amount of illegal guns and how easy it is to get them. Many are stolen because people don't store them in a gun safe like they should so if someone breaks into a house,business whatever and they find a gun it theirs. That along with the fact somehow people have lost the value of another persons life. Whatever happened to the days of ill meet you outside of school? You fought someone lost and that was the end. You didn't bring a gun....

While I still stand by this statement: "Scary that anybody believes arming people is an effective strategy to protect innocent people", I also believe that banning all guns would solve mostly nothing. Gun laws should be stricter and everyone who wants to get one should have to pass a strict background check and a sanity test and should also need to have some sort of "safety-training".
That whole personal safety argumentation is just bs. If I want to kill you, I can do it faster and quieter with a knife.
Really, I'm by no means against all guns (that would be very hypocritical, being a sports-marksman myself). But owning a machine gun for safety reasons? Against what? Zombies?
An .50 cal rifle for hunting? Yeah sure - Mincemeat fresh from the woods...
And people should lock away their guns properly. We also had a mass shooting some time ago here in Germany. And why? Because some dude didn't lock his guns away properly and his mentally unstable son took them.

morpwr
18-07-2018, 11:45
While I still stand by this statement: "Scary that anybody believes arming people is an effective strategy to protect innocent people", I also believe that banning all guns would solve mostly nothing. Gun laws should be stricter and everyone who wants to get one should have to pass a strict background check and a sanity test and should also need to have some sort of "safety-training".
That whole personal safety argumentation is just bs. If I want to kill you, I can do it faster and quieter with a knife.
Really, I'm by no means against all guns (that would be very hypocritical, being a sports-marksman myself). But owning a machine gun for safety reasons? Against what? Zombies?
An .50 cal rifle for hunting? Yeah sure - Mincemeat fresh from the woods...
And people should lock away their guns properly. We also had a mass shooting some time ago here in Germany. And why? Because some dude didn't lock his guns away properly and his mentally unstable son took them.

Totally agree nobody needs an ak47. Same goes for properly storing them. My brother in law has a lot of guns and when he filled up one case he bought another so they are all locked up all the time and he is the only one that has a key. Common sense goes along ways. But that's a different problem that many have.

BigDad
18-07-2018, 11:54
Gun laws should be stricter and everyone who wants to get one should have to pass a strict background check and a sanity test and should also need to have some sort of "safety-training".

I know a bloke who was a undercover security guard (armed) who has since finish up that roll but has kept his weapon licence and has just been diagnosed with early onset dementia ! He can't even remember my name some days yet he still has 2 hand guns locked away in his house and a licence to hold them :disillusionment:
I think background and sanity checks must be carried out yearly if not more regularly ! Im sure eventually his medical history will catch up with his licence but will it be soon enough ?

Christiaan van Beilen
18-07-2018, 12:17
While I still stand by this statement: "Scary that anybody believes arming people is an effective strategy to protect innocent people", I also believe that banning all guns would solve mostly nothing. Gun laws should be stricter and everyone who wants to get one should have to pass a strict background check and a sanity test and should also need to have some sort of "safety-training".
That whole personal safety argumentation is just bs. If I want to kill you, I can do it faster and quieter with a knife.
Really, I'm by no means against all guns (that would be very hypocritical, being a sports-marksman myself). But owning a machine gun for safety reasons? Against what? Zombies?
An .50 cal rifle for hunting? Yeah sure - Mincemeat fresh from the woods...
And people should lock away their guns properly. We also had a mass shooting some time ago here in Germany. And why? Because some dude didn't lock his guns away properly and his mentally unstable son took them.

How about going for airguns instead of normal ones? It is more than enough for the sport factor I would think. At least those biathlon chaps use air rifles for their sport all the time.

Invincible
18-07-2018, 12:24
At least those biathlon chaps use air rifles for their sport all the time.

No they don't. They use .22 lfB rifles.
Also - I also play paintball and airsoft from time to time. But at least on the shooting range I like to use a real rifle. Which is also stored & locked at said shooting range, by the way.

Christiaan van Beilen
18-07-2018, 12:38
No they don't. They use .22 lfB rifles.

I thought they did. My bad in that case. Still, I want to know if real guns can't be exchanged for air for sports only purposes. Is it that much less of a challenge to hit the mark?

I have fired guns in the USA but I never understood the sport as much. Is it the sport to control hard to control firearms well enough to hit the mark, or where lies the sport and need for heavier firearms.

Invincible
18-07-2018, 12:48
I thought they did. My bad in that case. Still, I want to know if real guns can't be exchanged for air for sports only purposes. Is it that much less of a challenge to hit the mark?

I have fired guns in the USA but I never understood the sport as much. Is it the sport to control hard to control firearms well enough to hit the mark, or where lies the sport and need for heavier firearms.

Good question - to me at least when it comes to sport, comparing an airsoft or coČ gun to a, let's say .308 MR308 is a bit like comparing a Porsche GT3 RS to a Toyota Prius. Reduced to the basic needs (going from A to B) the Prius also gets the job done, but it is boring af. There is just something missing.
Same goes when shooting a proper rifle compared to an airsoft one. There is no boom, there is no recoil and shooting on a 150 m (164.042 yards) range makes no sense because many air guns won't even get that far. And that's part of the challenge to me: Hitting far away targets as precisely as possible.

Konan
18-07-2018, 12:56
let's say .308 MR308 is a bit like comparing a Porsche GT3 RS to a Toyota Prius

I'm already glad you didn't say a 1.2 Opel Corsa :cool:

Tank621
18-07-2018, 14:18
The thing that is especially insteresting is how even with the exaggerated characters they are all deeply rooted not in reality but in perceived reality, and the way both sides see the other

As much as from watching the opening episode I feel like this is not his stongest work it will certainly ve interesting to see where he takes it in the upcomong episodes

Invincible
18-07-2018, 14:21
The thing that is especially insteresting is how even with the exaggerated characters they are all deeply rooted not in reality but in perceived reality, and the way both sides see the other

As much as from watching the opening episode I feel like this is not his stongest work it will certainly ve interesting to see where he takes it in the upcomong episodes

It took me a good while to realize that this is a comment which is actually directed to the series *lol* :D I already lost what this thread was about initially :eek:

Schnizz58
18-07-2018, 14:50
For starters, Americans aren't going to turn in their guns. It's just not going to happen without a big fight. I'm afraid for better or worse, that genie is out of the bottle and isn't going back in. And it's a terrible idea anyway. How is taking guns away from law-abiding citizens going to help anything? If you're going to arm anybody, then it should be the good guys. Are you going to tell this guy (https://www.kens5.com/article/news/crime/husband-shoots-home-invasion-suspect-holding-wife-at-gunpoint/273-575041849) that he's not allowed to defend his wife, his home and himself?

Second, it isn't about need. I hear all the time, "Nobody needs an AR-15. Nobody needs an AK-47." Well nobody needs the stuff that's in my sig either. Fortunately I have the means to buy it and I live in a country that allows me the freedom to do so. I have a lot of things that strictly speaking I don't need. I don't need a car. A lot of people are killed by cars every year. Let's ban cars. One thing I definitely don't need is the government telling me what I don't need.

Would an uprising against a tyrannical government stand a chance if it ever came to that? Maybe not but I'd still rather have that option than not have it.

With regards to school shootings in particular, there is a sign out in front of every school that says something to the effect of "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED ON SCHOOL PROPERTY". Good Lord, that's like having a sign that says, "UNARMED TARGETS INSIDE". I'm not necessarily advocating arming everyone in the country but before we start violating everybody's constitutional rights, maybe we ought to try hardening up those soft targets first.

Speaking of the constitution, the right to bear arms was considered so important to the founders that it was the second thing they added - right behind free speech. So consider that when you talk about repealing the 2nd amendment. Americans have been granted a very precious right in 2A. If we, as a country, willingly give up that right, then we have truly lost our way and abandoned the principles upon which the country was founded. I'd be ashamed to call myself an American if that were ever to happen.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Ben Franklin

cluck
18-07-2018, 14:54
Just finished watching the programme...oh man that blonde bird i bet is a right wee dirty!

Looks like hes kinda ran out of ideas though as it just felt i was watching Ali G from 20 years ago again.To be honest, he hasn't really had any other 'trick' since the beginning. Sure, the outfit and accent will change over the years but his targets are normally the same and with enough of a gap between the varying personas to let memories fade, to allow him to get away with it again. It can be funny (I did laugh quite hard at some of the bits in the 10-minute 'first look' video) but, like a lot of comedy, you tend to only remember the really good parts and forget the dross between.

I'll probably watch a few bits of it but, like a lot of TV, I won't go out of my way to watch it. I'd far rather watch a series by Louis Theroux, someone manages to expose a lot more of the darker side of humanity but without openly making fun of the targets.

Christiaan van Beilen
18-07-2018, 15:45
To be honest, he hasn't really had any other 'trick' since the beginning. Sure, the outfit and accent will change over the years but his targets are normally the same and with enough of a gap between the varying personas to let memories fade, to allow him to get away with it again. It can be funny (I did laugh quite hard at some of the bits in the 10-minute 'first look' video) but, like a lot of comedy, you tend to only remember the really good parts and forget the dross between.

I'll probably watch a few bits of it but, like a lot of TV, I won't go out of my way to watch it. I'd far rather watch a series by Louis Theroux, someone manages to expose a lot more of the darker side of humanity but without openly making fun of the targets.

Well, making fun of others has been a great part of comedy in history. Just to show a couple.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWF8iRCan7I

ermo
18-07-2018, 18:25
For starters, Americans aren't going to turn in their guns. It's just not going to happen without a big fight. I'm afraid for better or worse, that genie is out of the bottle and isn't going back in. And it's a terrible idea anyway. How is taking guns away from law-abiding citizens going to help anything? If you're going to arm anybody, then it should be the good guys. Are you going to tell this guy (https://www.kens5.com/article/news/crime/husband-shoots-home-invasion-suspect-holding-wife-at-gunpoint/273-575041849) that he's not allowed to defend his wife, his home and himself?

Second, it isn't about need. I hear all the time, "Nobody needs an AR-15. Nobody needs an AK-47." Well nobody needs the stuff that's in my sig either. Fortunately I have the means to buy it and I live in a country that allows me the freedom to do so. I have a lot of things that strictly speaking I don't need. I don't need a car. A lot of people are killed by cars every year. Let's ban cars. One thing I definitely don't need is the government telling me what I don't need.

Would an uprising against a tyrannical government stand a chance if it ever came to that? Maybe not but I'd still rather have that option than not have it.

With regards to school shootings in particular, there is a sign out in front of every school that says something to the effect of "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED ON SCHOOL PROPERTY". Good Lord, that's like having a sign that says, "UNARMED TARGETS INSIDE". I'm not necessarily advocating arming everyone in the country but before we start violating everybody's constitutional rights, maybe we ought to try hardening up those soft targets first.

Speaking of the constitution, the right to bear arms was considered so important to the founders that it was the second thing they added - right behind free speech. So consider that when you talk about repealing the 2nd amendment. Americans have been granted a very precious right in 2A. If we, as a country, willingly give up that right, then we have truly lost our way and abandoned the principles upon which the country was founded. I'd be ashamed to call myself an American if that were ever to happen.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Ben Franklin

I know you're a good egg, so please don't take any of the below commentary personally. I was an exchange student in the US of A many moons ago, so even if my experience is now outdated, I do have *some* exposure to how life is like west of the Atlantic. :)

First of all, have you ever stopped to think about why you chose to live in a country where it is commonplace to think of Schools as "Soft Targets"? Can you not see that this line of thought is *completely* bonkers? Why do you insist to exist in a state of perpetual war, where every person you meet is a potential threat/enemy instead of a potential friend?

From my perspective, the biggest issue the US of A has is not guns or whatever else, it's that its citizens don't trust each other (and the public institutions) to be civilized and act in good faith. Distrust leads to fear, fear leads to anger and anger leads to the Dark Side violence.

In more civilized countries (and by civilized I mean "social security and public healthcare works and are considered basic human rights, political institutions are trustworthy, corruption is rare, and the police is the only group allowed to resort to armed violence on behalf of society by the letter of the law"), we have realized that we need to talk out our differences -- rather than threatening to shoot each other -- if we are ever to solve our differences amicably and constructively.

Where I live, people can still own firearms for sporting purposes of course. And I don't discount the fact that the US of A is a large place with dangerous game in many areas, but I think this is covered by the "sporting purposes" clause of firearm ownership. Do you really need more than a powerful hunting rifle to defend yourself against a Grizzly, a Mountain Lion or whatever?

Firearm ownership proliferation on the basis of "but I need to be able to protect myself from the world I live in!" is IMHO the *completely* wrong response in a society already in decay. Invest in society instead of guns. Invest in your institutions instead of guns. Please. For your children's sake.

Konan
18-07-2018, 18:38
In more civilized countries (and by civilized I mean "social security and public healthcare works and are considered basic human rights, political institutions are trustworthy, corruption is rare, and the police is the only group allowed to resort to armed violence on behalf of society by the letter of the law")

...packing my bags....point me in the right direction please...:cool:

Tank621
18-07-2018, 19:01
To be honest, he hasn't really had any other 'trick' since the beginning. Sure, the outfit and accent will change over the years but his targets are normally the same and with enough of a gap between the varying personas to let memories fade, to allow him to get away with it again. It can be funny (I did laugh quite hard at some of the bits in the 10-minute 'first look' video) but, like a lot of comedy, you tend to only remember the really good parts and forget the dross between.

I'll probably watch a few bits of it but, like a lot of TV, I won't go out of my way to watch it. I'd far rather watch a series by Louis Theroux, someone manages to expose a lot more of the darker side of humanity but without openly making fun of the targets.

True that, Louis Theroux's documentaries are the best around (except maybe Attenborough's but that's a whole different genre)

Schnizz58
18-07-2018, 19:20
ermo, I'd agree with most of that if the police were capable of protecting me. They aren't, so therefore I have to do it myself. The article I posted is a perfect example. If you take away that guy's ability to defend himself, his wife is dead, raped or both and he probably is too. Being able to defend yourself is a basic human right. Like Ben, I'd rather live in an "uncivilized" country than in a police state. To me, taking away guns from law-abiding people and leaving them in the hands of criminals, is about as insane as it gets.

Out of curiosity, what weapons would you propose to restrict? You ask if one needs more than a powerful hunting rifle. There are many who would draw the line well short of that. And again, "need" is not the issue here. If we're limited to only guns we need, who gets to decide what is needed? There's a guy here who goes by the name Dragon Man. He claims to be the most armed man in America and he could be right. Among his collection is a fully functional T54 tank (with ammo). Does he need a tank? Of course not. I tell you what, if it was my tank, I'd have these words stenciled on the barrel: SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Bealdor
18-07-2018, 19:24
Sorry guys but that discussion is getting way too political, which is against the forum rules.

Thread closed.