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isamu
17-08-2018, 08:59
....are absolutely AMAZING?!?!

Seriously, after spending more than 110hrs in the game, and having 95% of the campaign completed, I can safely say this game has some the most enjoyable car physics I've experienced in just about any sim to date! I've put hundreds of hours into Forza 7, GT Sport, Iracing and AC, and PCars 2 car physics trump them all in my book(well, OK... depending on the car, maybe not AC) :p

But especially Forza 7....talk about a huge fail. Their cars suffer from massive amounts of understeer and sometimes the brakes feel like they don't work correctly. I had to give up playing Forza 7 because I just couldn't come to grips with how terrible the physics were, even on my DD wheel(and yes, that's even using FlavPlatoLV's emu wheel app). Driving the majority of the cars in PCars 2 however is a delight.

Yes not all of the cars feel the same, and some are a bit of a handful, and yes they may not drive super realistically or up to diehard sim-racer standards, but for the most part, the cars feel extraordinarily good! I'm talking about cars like the 1991 BMW M3 E30 Group A, the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302R1, the Lotus 49, and all the Ginetta GT types. Those cars feel AMAZING to me!!! The control I feel over the cars, coupled with Jack Spade's FFB files helps deliver a driving experience that is nothing short of sublime!

Oh and for the record, I've been driving ONLY default setups the entire time. Can just imagine how much better the cars feel with some proper ones.

Am I the only one that really gets on with the cars in this game and think they handle wonderfully compared to other games, or am I simply mad?

Tank621
17-08-2018, 09:13
or am I slightly mad?

FTFY

Bultaco85
17-08-2018, 10:30
I agree with you.
Some cars need time to understand how to cope with, and the tire model is complex but all very enjoyable.

We just need better AI.

UkHardcore23
17-08-2018, 12:03
I've put around 30 hours into GTS recently (i bought it on release it's about time i put some hours in) and going back to PCARS 2 last night was a real real eye opener. The difference is staggering the physics difference is staggering the racing difference is staggering. The only time GTS has the edge is sound (who ever thought that could happen a few years ago) and possibly graphics at times but defo not always.

Chikane
17-08-2018, 12:09
Fully agree op i tried ac and gts but at the end of the day pcars 2 is my go to :D

John Hargreaves
17-08-2018, 13:44
We just need better AI.


I've put around 30 hours into GTS recently (i bought it on release it's about time i put some hours in) and going back to PCARS 2 last night was a real real eye opener. The difference is staggering the physics difference is staggering the racing difference is staggering. The only time GTS has the edge is sound (who ever thought that could happen a few years ago) and possibly graphics at times but defo not always.

I think when you play GTS, then come back to PC2, the AI here are like driving gods.

TexasTyme214
17-08-2018, 13:48
I wish we had a dedicated physics thread to discuss. Generally, I think PCars 2 deserves more credit than it usually gets in this area. It's not perfect, but it does a lot of cool things I feel. The heating, lose surface, and aero models are the big highlights for me.

I generally think Nicki Thiim's criticism of the tires being too soft in terms of feel is pretty valid. I can see where he's coming from. That doesn't bother me as much as some parts of the camber settings.

Rodders
17-08-2018, 15:31
I agree they are excellent. Confirmed by an aerospace engineer I know who plays and is developing tools for the game and he's extremely impressed with how much is modeled in the game. I went from a real go-kart to PCars2 ones a few days later and TBH, it really really reminded me of the real thing (my wheel prob helped a lot as it has the power to replicate heavy go-kart steering).

I think it often gets a bad wrap by other sim fans that think it's too easy to drive (personally I think most other "serious" sims go much too far the other way) so they just assume it must have poor physics.

Twinz
17-08-2018, 15:48
I still think a lot of people only think physics are "good" if all the cars try to kill you. I am generally happy with PC2 physics. (Occasional glitches aside)

rocho
17-08-2018, 16:11
I think that PC2 may seem to be easy to drive because it transmits a lot of useful information that helps to better predict the reactions of the car.

Redna1L
17-08-2018, 19:35
Totally agree. The physics in PC1 were awful imho but this game is night and day compared with that. I hope it sold well and we get more of this excellence from the team.

isamu
17-08-2018, 21:13
I think it often gets a bad wrap by other sim fans that think it's too easy to drive (personally I think most other "serious" sims go much too far the other way) so they just assume it must have poor physics.

+1 Couldn't agree more.

PostBox981
18-08-2018, 05:55
I still think a lot of people only think physics are "good" if all the cars try to kill you. I am generally happy with PC2 physics. (Occasional glitches aside)
Earlier this year I got the chance to go on a race track (NurbGP) with the car that you see on the left. To my surprise driving it on the edge (or what I believed to be the edge) felt even smoother than what we get from PC2. So I believe PC2 is doing the best job among all current sims as most others more or less - as you said - are trying to kill you. :rolleyes:

belaki
18-08-2018, 06:17
Earlier this year I got the chance to go on a race track (NurbGP) with the car that you see on the left. To my surprise driving it on the edge (or what I believed to be the edge) felt even smoother than what we get from PC2. So I believe PC2 is doing the best job among all current sims as most others more or less - as you said - are trying to kill you. :rolleyes:

As someone that was privileged to drive a sub 4 second almost 1g car as a daily driver for over ten years, I promise you that road cars and GTs are much easier to drive IRL than they are even in PC2. Any so-called simracer that thinks a sim is unsim because the cars are too easy hasn't experienced what the real thing feels like. Honestly, if Ford delivered a car that handles like the in-game GT at the limit Id tell em to wire my money back, no doubt about it.

Its why I only race prototypes and formula in game, as, to be honest, the road cars are just so far off and I can't tune them well enough to fix the issues to the point where the cars are predictable AND competitive.

Perhaps some additional FFB in my seat will help, something I'll be testing in future.


Don't get me wrong. I love this game and would pay 10X for perfect.

Leper Messiah
20-08-2018, 08:24
As someone that was privileged to drive a sub 4 second almost 1g car as a daily driver for over ten years, I promise you that road cars and GTs are much easier to drive IRL than they are even in PC2. Any so-called simracer that thinks a sim is unsim because the cars are too easy hasn't experienced what the real thing feels like. Honestly, if Ford delivered a car that handles like the in-game GT at the limit Id tell em to wire my money back, no doubt about it.

Its why I only race prototypes and formula in game, as, to be honest, the road cars are just so far off and I can't tune them well enough to fix the issues to the point where the cars are predictable AND competitive.

Perhaps some additional FFB in my seat will help, something I'll be testing in future.


Don't get me wrong. I love this game and would pay 10X for perfect.

This is really interesting, but I have a caveat I'd like to explore: I'm certain because the impression of speed is worse in a game than reality that people overdrive in sim games FAR more than they would in reality. Also with no risk of damage to car or driver health that adds to the overdriving. We also don't "feel" any sensations of speed in sim games and I believe that also contributes somewhat. I rode bikes for years (you CANNOT get a more visceral feeling of speed than on a fast bike) and the forces acting on the body do a damn good job of reeling in the right wrist (foot).

Not saying the game is perfect, but other factors may well be an issue. (devils advocate mode off!)

micmansour
20-08-2018, 11:33
I think Project Cars 2 cops too much flack, but it's by far the best out there at the moment. Assetto Corsa is just dull and boring, GTS feels like your driving around Hot Wheels Cars on a tiled kitchen floor, F1 2017 gets repetitive quite fast with plenty of screen tearing to make you queasy, and DiRT 4 was good for the first week, and then I got over it. PC2 is the game I find myself going back to and comparing against the rest, so kudos to the team. (It's also the only time I've actually platinumed a game on PS3 or PS4).
Lately I've been doing a lot of flying for work, so have been getting into Real Racing 3 while on the plane, and was thinking that RR3 is more enjoyable, and more in depth, than most of the games I just mentioned!

belaki
20-08-2018, 12:06
This is really interesting, but I have a caveat I'd like to explore: I'm certain because the impression of speed is worse in a game than reality that people overdrive in sim games FAR more than they would in reality. Also with no risk of damage to car or driver health that adds to the overdriving. We also don't "feel" any sensations of speed in sim games and I believe that also contributes somewhat. I rode bikes for years (you CANNOT get a more visceral feeling of speed than on a fast bike) and the forces acting on the body do a damn good job of reeling in the right wrist (foot).

Not saying the game is perfect, but other factors may well be an issue. (devils advocate mode off!)

I ride bikes too, my brother. As rapidly as possible. If metal isn't grinding, you're not working hard enough. But I'm getting too old for such antics, and thus my love for this game and all the potential this technology presents.

So, I appreciate what you're saying. Overdriving is a serious offense. However, I'm not referring to the oft noted and decried propensity to easily shunt yourself driving in game. I'm saying that being quick in game is way more difficult than actual experience has demonstrated. Case in point, the number of complaints relating to immense difficulties performing trail braking maneuvers.

The likely issue is a an absence of critical sensory inputs that FFB, in all its magic, simply can't provide. Even threshold braking becomes a challenge when you have no true sense of the timing and amplitude of the nose dropping as brake pressure is applied. In a road car, the difficulty is magnified as there simply isn't enough ENVELOPE to play with. Same with trail braking - no sense of roll can be conveyed by FFB, and so by the time you have a visual cue the backend is coming to see you it's a fait accompli.

Despite these challenges, we work the problem until we can race effectively - out of love of the sport. I just look forward to a day when I spend more time racing and less time testing.

lol...

poirqc
20-08-2018, 14:01
I ride bikes too, my brother. As rapidly as possible. If metal isn't grinding, you're not working hard enough. But I'm getting too old for such antics, and thus my love for this game and all the potential this technology presents.

So, I appreciate what you're saying. Overdriving is a serious offense. However, I'm not referring to the oft noted and decried propensity to easily shunt yourself driving in game. I'm saying that being quick in game is way more difficult than actual experience has demonstrated. Case in point, the number of complaints relating to immense difficulties performing trail braking maneuvers.

The likely issue is a an absence of critical sensory inputs that FFB, in all its magic, simply can't provide. Even threshold braking becomes a challenge when you have no true sense of the timing and amplitude of the nose dropping as brake pressure is applied. In a road car, the difficulty is magnified as there simply isn't enough ENVELOPE to play with. Same with trail braking - no sense of roll can be conveyed by FFB, and so by the time you have a visual cue the backend is coming to see you it's a fait accompli.

Despite these challenges, we work the problem until we can race effectively - out of love of the sport. I just look forward to a day when I spend more time racing and less time testing.

lol...

Sim racing is like mariage. It’s tradeoff land! :)

John Hargreaves
20-08-2018, 16:02
Sim racing is like mariage. :)

It can certainly work out expensive :cool:

PostBox981
20-08-2018, 16:36
Sim racing is like mariage. It’s tradeoff land! :)

Very true. Since I started, I trade off appointments with my wife. Maybe not exactly what you meant but still... :rolleyes:

Azure Flare
22-08-2018, 00:04
I still think a lot of people only think physics are "good" if all the cars try to kill you. I am generally happy with PC2 physics. (Occasional glitches aside)

I could understand this for the older cars, especially the Group 5 cars and the Lotus 98T. But a GT3 car shouldn't be trying to kill anyone.

poirqc
22-08-2018, 02:50
Thanks SMS.

It show's there's lots of works and love in this game!

hkraft300
22-08-2018, 03:05
To all who thinks pcars2 physics isn't up to par:
Try running pressures a fraction too high at le Mans and see what happens between Porsche curves and when you get through Dunlop.
Or drive a race with the track going cold->hot or vice versa and not be prepared for it.
Or even taking the rear wing off a click too far in a GT car.
Or spool vs clutch diff.
Wet tire on a drying track.
Observe these cause and effect tests.

People that usually crap on about physics didn't even take high school level physics :rolleyes:

Zeratall
22-08-2018, 07:29
To all who thinks pcars2 physics isn't up to par:
Try running pressures a fraction too high at le Mans and see what happens between Porsche curves and when you get through Dunlop.
Or drive a race with the track going cold->hot or vice versa and not be prepared for it.
Or even taking the rear wing off a click too far in a GT car.
Or spool vs clutch diff.
Wet tire on a drying track.
Observe these cause and effect tests.

People that usually crap on about physics didn't even take high school level physics :rolleyes:

Pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one.

isamu
22-08-2018, 18:35
I've just started doing the Historical Invitational Events and all I can say about some of these historic cars is WOW!!!!! There's an old BMW(forgot which model) that is just insanely delicious to drive!!!

poirqc
22-08-2018, 18:38
Must be the bmw 2002. It is indeed quite fun to drive!

Tank621
22-08-2018, 18:44
I've just started doing the Historical Invitational Events and all I can say about some of these historic cars is WOW!!!!! There's an old BMW(forgot which model) that is just insanely delicious to drive!!!

My favourite cars are the historics, this morning I did some tweaks to my wheel and ffb setup and tested the Lotus 25 at Hockenheim and the Merc 300 SEL AMG at Brands Hatch and that was a blast. You can really feel the weight of the Merc when you're driving as you wrestle the car through the bends

g.stew
22-08-2018, 20:40
My favourite cars are the historics, this morning I did some tweaks to my wheel and ffb setup and tested the Lotus 25 at Hockenheim and the Merc 300 SEL AMG at Brands Hatch and that was a blast. You can really feel the weight of the Merc when you're driving as you wrestle the car through the bends

The one with the mustang at Watkins is like that too. It's raining and starts to dry and you can really feel the weight of the car. It's one of my favorite races to do in VR.

hkraft300
23-08-2018, 00:08
Must be the bmw 2002. It is indeed quite fun to drive!

M1 pro > 2002 :D

Schnizz58
23-08-2018, 00:19
Physics was never the issue in PC1 and it's still not in PC2. There are things to complain about in these games but physics and realism are not among them.

poirqc
23-08-2018, 00:56
M1 pro > 2002 :D

Amazing == Amazing

Leper Messiah
23-08-2018, 08:58
I ride bikes too, my brother. As rapidly as possible. If metal isn't grinding, you're not working hard enough. But I'm getting too old for such antics, and thus my love for this game and all the potential this technology presents.

So, I appreciate what you're saying. Overdriving is a serious offense. However, I'm not referring to the oft noted and decried propensity to easily shunt yourself driving in game. I'm saying that being quick in game is way more difficult than actual experience has demonstrated. Case in point, the number of complaints relating to immense difficulties performing trail braking maneuvers.

The likely issue is a an absence of critical sensory inputs that FFB, in all its magic, simply can't provide. Even threshold braking becomes a challenge when you have no true sense of the timing and amplitude of the nose dropping as brake pressure is applied. In a road car, the difficulty is magnified as there simply isn't enough ENVELOPE to play with. Same with trail braking - no sense of roll can be conveyed by FFB, and so by the time you have a visual cue the backend is coming to see you it's a fait accompli.

Despite these challenges, we work the problem until we can race effectively - out of love of the sport. I just look forward to a day when I spend more time racing and less time testing.

lol...

Yeah I was just playing devils advocate, I totally agree that the main issue is the lack of feeling the gforces on the body. Sadly no amount of ffb will help there....gotta hope that full hydraulic sim rigs drop in price...a LOT!! ;)

Rodders
23-08-2018, 13:24
I've just started doing the Historical Invitational Events and all I can say about some of these historic cars is WOW!!!!! There's an old BMW(forgot which model) that is just insanely delicious to drive!!!

Yeah some of the historic cars are excellent. In fact the historic formula cars largely save the day for formula cars in PCars2 (as I find only the Formula Renault and Indy car any good for modern. FC and FA really are quite bad).

Rodders
23-08-2018, 13:26
Amazing == Amazing

Noooo. I like the M1 Procar but that 2002 BMW 2002 is a hidden gem (only drove it recently largely by accident).

poirqc
23-08-2018, 17:01
Noooo. I like the M1 Procar but that 2002 BMW 2002 is a hidden gem (only drove it recently largely by accident).

Trust me, I know the 2002! :D It's my mostly driven pCars 1 and 2 road car! But the M1 is also super nice. Since both cars are really different, we can't really compare them! :)

Edit - I lied, I drove the yellowbird alot more in pCars 1 but it's gone now :(

deluca_pabloj
22-10-2018, 16:18
I like the lateral forces in PC2, I think itīs the only game that gives you the information about the weight of the car. In PC1 this force was present, but not so good as now.
In other games such as AC, I canīt feel the weight of the car and what are g-forces doing.
In some corners, you must control the weight and noise of the car first, if not, youīll never make the car turn and you feel understeer.
And in terms of VR, the game is made for it, helmet camera is just amazing.

Cladandadum
24-10-2018, 11:28
I've put around 30 hours into GTS recently (i bought it on release it's about time i put some hours in) and going back to PCARS 2 last night was a real real eye opener. The difference is staggering the physics difference is staggering the racing difference is staggering. The only time GTS has the edge is sound (who ever thought that could happen a few years ago) and possibly graphics at times but defo not always.

Would have to agree. GT Sport, for me, gets a bit boring and a grind fest. The ai is also pretty awful.

On the topic of sound, does anyone know if the 991 RSR got another sound change? Having been away from the game for a while, it seems different since patch 7?

Jurld
24-10-2018, 11:30
I have no substantial real-life experience to compare it with. I'd hazard a guess that 95% of simmers don't either. And maybe nobody still alive has driven some of the cars and tracks in this game. It feels real enough to me. I can make changes to the car that translates to some degree to what I'd expect to happen, based on my experience with cars and what the game says these adjustments will do.. I can pay attention to how the car reacts to my inputs and then adjust my driving and my line and improve my lap times. It all seems in line with other "serious" games.

Funny story on myself: When I first bought PC2 I immediately loaded up the Lotus 49 and started tooling around classic Monza. WAY TOO EASY! I thought, coming from AC. Some while later I realized I was not running on vintage rubber by default...