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View Full Version : Is it just me... more grip in the wet?



venquessa
19-08-2018, 18:25
Why does it seem like there is more grip in the wet on wets than in the dry with slicks?

Maybe it's subjective but the cars seem to handle better in the wet. The grip is more constituent and progressive. Surely this should be the other way around? The grip should be consistent and progressive in the dry and patchy and sudden in the wet.

Best race I've had so far in PCars2 was a formula rookie career race in the wet. Was more like dancing than driving.

MrTulip
19-08-2018, 21:03
Generally less the tyre has initial grip to break from, the easier they are to recover from a slide. Feel and progressivity of sliding is one thing, but I doubt that there is actually more grip in wet conditions.

But eventually the lap times tell the thruth, and at least in my experience in PCARS2 clean lap times in wet conditions are always slower than in dry.

satco1066
19-08-2018, 21:15
yep. drive 10% slower and you don't complain about low grip ;)

Keena
19-08-2018, 21:52
Generally less the tyre has initial grip to break from, the easier they are to recover from a slide. Feel and progressivity of sliding is one thing, but I doubt that there is actually more grip in wet conditions.

But eventually the lap times tell the thruth, and at least in my experience in PCARS2 clean lap times in wet conditions are always slower than in dry.

For what its worth and in my humble opinion (and it is just that), the friction drag from the water on the surface is a bit overpowered in project cars 2. Its hard to accelerate in 3rd on flat straights in low powered cars, yet in my mx5 miata in soaking conditions here in the Uk i only know its raining because the footwell fills up. The jag ive got for the motorway is the same. Take that drag away to more realistic levels and those laptimes might be interesting. Perhaps instead of ai pace, they need to look at friction drag..

sas5320
20-08-2018, 02:02
Compare lap times then talk about which has more grip

Shinzah
20-08-2018, 02:43
OP hasn't hit a puddle in the second hour of a career endurance race

SPLASH

SMASH

:|

Countryman
20-08-2018, 04:17
I agree. When I was racing in the rain I felt like I had way more grip than usual. When I raced the same car in dry conditions it handled terribly.

Leper Messiah
20-08-2018, 08:11
I noticed that in the Frookies as well, it's also very apparent in the Radical SR8. I'm not sure if it's more grip per se, but rather, as has been mentioned, overall speed is lower so the tyres can cope. Personally I think it's more a case of the only slick option being awful, especially apparant in the SR8. In some conditions it's ok but in anything other than optimal temps or track temp the slicks are awful. Incredibly hard to bring up to temp in cold conditions, I've often just slapped wets on in the dry as it's easier to cope with the wear of the wets rather than the instant grip loss of the slicks. I just wish we had a softer slick compound.

MrTulip
20-08-2018, 12:22
For what its worth and in my humble opinion (and it is just that), the friction drag from the water on the surface is a bit overpowered in project cars 2. Its hard to accelerate in 3rd on flat straights in low powered cars, yet in my mx5 miata in soaking conditions here in the Uk i only know its raining because the footwell fills up. The jag ive got for the motorway is the same. Take that drag away to more realistic levels and those laptimes might be interesting. Perhaps instead of ai pace, they need to look at friction drag..

Yup, additional drag and rolling resistance may also play into it causing slower speeds.

Regarding using slicks in the rain:
GT4 soft slicks are faster than wets in light rain. I noticed this in qualifying in GT4 career mode when AI was performing a lot better than me to what they usually do. I think it is by design and a nice touch.
Vintage GTA slicks are pretty much as good as the wets in the rain. Slightly different handling but not much difference in speed. Although I didn't measure it; both were quite difficult to drive consistently. I think that the wets are simply bad on that class.

Bultaco85
21-08-2018, 19:23
I'm with you this one...

hkraft300
21-08-2018, 21:04
If you over drive the slicks they punish you, if they're too cold or too hot.

Wet tires are fairly progressive in their grip loss. So it's not that you have more grip, they're just less snappy.
Like the all terrain tires on a vintage prototype a or b car are much more progressive in their grip-slide transition than the track tires. So it appears to have more grip but you're really travelling several seconds per lap slower.

Ronnie Peterson
21-08-2018, 21:33
Wet tyres may grip in the wet but no matter what I do they wear out due to overheating in no time. Meanwhile the AI have no problems whatsoever???????????

hkraft300
22-08-2018, 02:33
AI are on simple tire physics to save processing power.
You probably have to drive more conservatively and save your wet tires.
Or turn down AI to balance the performance better.
What car and track?
I haven't had issues with wet tire wear in prototypes and GTs but I haven't done >1HR in rain.

venquessa
05-09-2018, 10:37
I'm still not convinced. I'm fairly sure the cornering speeds are higher in the wet. Hard to prove though. I am sure that when I take donnington turn 1 in 2nd in the dry and 3rd is too risky most times, it's a lot easier in 3rd in the wet.
If we could negate the water drag effect we could test.

Daz555
05-09-2018, 11:05
Less grip but some cars are far easier to drive in the wet. The Ford Fusion NASCAR for example is one of the worst cars in the game and drives like a barge. In the wet though it feels more like a race car.

hkraft300
05-09-2018, 11:14
I'm still not convinced. I'm fairly sure the cornering speeds are higher in the wet. Hard to prove though. I am sure that when I take donnington turn 1 in 2nd in the dry and 3rd is too risky most times, it's a lot easier in 3rd in the wet.
If we could negate the water drag effect we could test.

No, on a wet track your cornering speeds are slower. It's easy to prove. Take any race car newer than 1985, do some laps in the dry and then wet. Both with the correct compound and pressure for the conditions, and default setup (except pressure and compound changes) to keep things equal.
Note your lap times and screenshot mid corner.
Pick a track: donington if you're comfortable there, or Imola, knockhill, Bathurst, any tarmac race track.

You will find you're 5+ seconds slower in the wet. You can't corner as fast, sometimes it's fairly close. But where are you measuring corner speed? Apex? Average corner speed? Your braking distance is a little longer and your exit speeds are less. Why? Because you have less grip and that's also why your corner speeds are slower.

The water drag effect is part of the reason you're slower in the wet. Why would you try to negate that as a factor? That makes absolutely no sense. That's like saying "well if the track isn't wet, I'd be faster in the rain."

Mad Al
05-09-2018, 11:36
You could just use one of the multitude of telemetry apps, should allow you to check speed at any time and overlay laps... would be a lot easier

MrTulip
05-09-2018, 16:27
Also there is a mini skidpad in the Porsche test track so one can compare maximum G-forces and tyres in different conditions there.