PDA

View Full Version : Hard tyres



Lakiboom
20-08-2018, 09:39
Is it normal that hard tyres have bigger brake distance? Had test race on IMOLA, road temperature more than 45 C. Info block says soft has more grip but when it's hot better to use hard. My brakes setup works fine with soft and it doesn't with hard. Car slides and I have to re-setup brake pressure and balance. Also i'm slower with hard (6 seconds) only because I have to brake much earlier.

Is this the same in real life? I don't have such experience but in game I don't see the advantages of hard tyres. I use soft in 99% online races even if race more than 2 hours.

TexasTyme214
20-08-2018, 10:33
Sometimes you can't use a setup that's optimized for softs on the hard tire. Also which cars are you using? In some classes, hard tires fare better than others.

Bealdor
20-08-2018, 10:36
What are your tire temperatures?
Btw. Imola doesn't have many high speed corners which means that soft tires will probably be the better choice even at 45C track temperature.

Lakiboom
20-08-2018, 10:55
What are your tire temperatures?

Warmed, 80-90 C. The question was not about speed in corners but about brake on hard tyres :) Cause for me it's very big difference. With the same setup I can brake later with soft without locking but with hard "OMG please stop" :rolleyes:

David Wright
20-08-2018, 10:59
I think you need to say which car you are talking about. Hard on GT3 is very different to hard on a road car.

Lakiboom
20-08-2018, 11:03
Sometimes you can't use a setup that's optimized for softs on the hard tire. Also which cars are you using? In some classes, hard tires fare better than others.

I used hard only two times as I remember with Porsche GT3 at Long Beach and Laguna Seca, but only because soft were gone faster :)

Lakiboom
20-08-2018, 11:05
I think you need to say which car you are talking about. Hard on GT3 is very different to hard on a road car.

Ok. Yesterday at Imola it was Ferrari F40 (GTO). Soft lap 1:46.064 Hard lap 1:52.xxx

Before first speed corner I started to brake from 180-200 meters but couldn't do the same with hard :)

Shinzah
20-08-2018, 13:43
Working mostly as intended, I think. Though your deltas are pretty far apart. I'm not sure about the GTO differences in tires. AFAIK The F40 on softs is a bear, hards would probably be an exercise in rage induction for me without hours of setup work. But you're going to have to adjust your braking and driving style to match the lessened overall grip of the hard tires anyway.

This part is normal. The tires simply don't grip as well as soft tires so need more time to react. This is true for all hard tires. They are going to be slower and braking distances will vary. Hard tires will also be more prone to locking, which seems weird but the compensation in braking pressure and distance creates a larger window in order to lock the tires under braking, they also have less surface grip which is less pull on the tire to keep it rotating.

Hard tires have the advantage in wear and durability, they can wear less and get hotter than soft tires without falling to bits. However, in modern racing a lot of the times drivers will simply prefer a soft or medium-soft compound for the entire race unless they are double or triple stinting tires in endurance racing, in which case you need harder compounds.

David Wright
20-08-2018, 13:50
Ok. Yesterday at Imola it was Ferrari F40 (GTO). Soft lap 1:46.064 Hard lap 1:52.xxx

Before first speed corner I started to brake from 180-200 meters but couldn't do the same with hard :)

Having had a quick drive with the F40 you are right, the softs have considerably more grip. All I can assume is as the F40 is an old car, these are "old school" tyres where softs have more grip under almost any condition than hards, rather than "new school" tyres like the GT3s where track temperature is a key factor on whether you opt for softs or hards. The grip difference between hard and soft for the F40 does seem excessive IMO.

Lakiboom
20-08-2018, 14:03
Working mostly as intended, I think. Though your deltas are pretty far apart. I'm not sure about the GTO differences in tires. AFAIK The F40 on softs is a bear, hards would probably be an exercise in rage induction for me without hours of setup work. But you're going to have to adjust your braking and driving style to match the lessened overall grip of the hard tires anyway.

This part is normal. The tires simply don't grip as well as soft tires so need more time to react. This is true for all hard tires. They are going to be slower and braking distances will vary. Hard tires will also be more prone to locking, which seems weird but the compensation in braking pressure and distance creates a larger window in order to lock the tires under braking, they also have less surface grip which is less pull on the tire to keep it rotating.

Hard tires have the advantage in wear and durability, they can wear less and get hotter than soft tires without falling to bits. However, in modern racing a lot of the times drivers will simply prefer a soft or medium-soft compound for the entire race unless they are double or triple stinting tires in endurance racing, in which case you need harder compounds.

Thanks for the answer:)

Lakiboom
20-08-2018, 14:08
Having had a quick drive with the F40 you are right, the softs have considerably more grip. All I can assume is as the F40 is an old car, these are "old school" tyres where softs have more grip under almost any condition than hards, rather than "new school" tyres like the GT3s where track temperature is a key factor on whether you opt for softs or hards. The grip difference between hard and soft for the F40 does seem excessive IMO.

I thought Soft & Hard tyres are the same for each cars aren't they? Some has sport or vintage, but i'm not sure there is difference between soft model on GT3 or GT1, GTO and etc.

Mad Al
20-08-2018, 14:49
I thought Soft & Hard tyres are the same for each cars aren't they? Some has sport or vintage, but i'm not sure there is difference between soft model on GT3 or GT1, GTO and etc.

no they are not the same.. similarly named tyres in different classes may be different hardnesses relative to other classes and they may be a different construction.

TexasTyme214
20-08-2018, 16:22
I thought Soft & Hard tyres are the same for each cars aren't they? Some has sport or vintage, but i'm not sure there is difference between soft model on GT3 or GT1, GTO and etc.

No. Each class has different tires. Trends with soft tires and hard tires, such as wear rates or lap time deltas, will differ from one class to the next. LMP1-H lap time delta is around a second. Lotus 98T delta between tires is 5+ seconds. I think you can expect a wider gap in old tires versus newer tires, but more than 2 seconds is excessive to me.

Lakiboom
20-08-2018, 20:37
no they are not the same.. similarly named tyres in different classes may be different hardnesses relative to other classes and they may be a different construction.

Thank you, it was not obvious to me.