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balderz002
03-09-2018, 19:12
I didn't think this worthy of derailing any of the dlc type threads like the dlc discussion thread, but does anyone have any idea why there are no wholly red Vintage F1 cars?

Was it a decision by Classic Team Lotus? a stipulation of Ferrari? Are we getting some Vintage F1 cars from Ferrari at a later date, so we don't want to get them confused with a red Lotus?
We have Classic Lotus' in what I would call Matra blue, McLaren Orange, Tyrell blue, even a 98T which I think echo's a Benetton type scheme.....

Do I need my tinfoil hat?


Where's the keys to my bunker again?

Tank621
03-09-2018, 19:18
There are several that look similar to old Brabhams and Williams as well, I would guess that there is some Ferrari intervention going on to be honest. I think if Ferrari F1 cars were to come that somebody somewhere would have noticed something to suggest it by now. Just think how much of the Season Pass was spotted in files etc long before those DLCs were announced

Hugo Catarino
03-09-2018, 20:05
i too noticed that and i'm very very sad to see that the "ferrari" liveries are gone...my fav f1 ever is the Ferrar 312 b2, and PC1 had an almost exact livery, which kinda felt like the real car once you puted in and drive it. Now, the livery still exists but in green colour...The same happened with the Lotus 78: gone are the days you could pretend you were Gilles Villeneuve...there is still a red livery but it has too much yellow in it...I believe the 98t still has a red livery?i dont drive much that car so i can't tell. The 49 never had a "ferrari" colours but still has a red/white/black that's kinda nice.I am 100% sure it has something to do with Ferrari coming to the game: The liveries/team names are still there, just in different colour...if they were bad they would be left out,right?
Oh,and the lotus 25 sure needs a red livery aswell

John Hargreaves
03-09-2018, 20:22
Found this in the download section
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?58911-1970-Lotus-Type-49C-Cosworth-(No-chat!)
might be useful for you.

balderz002
04-09-2018, 05:32
I think if Ferrari F1 cars were to come that somebody somewhere would have noticed something to suggest it by now.

Well if we would get any dlc past this season pass, there are no files to show that currently. Also, no one foresaw the Ferrari challenge car we got as a freebie either......

Vic Flange
04-09-2018, 08:11
This is a genuine question and not a dig at the developers.
Why have we not had any classic F1 DLC ?
Is it not possible to include cars from defunct teams like Cooper, BRM or Honda ?
I would have thought that late 60’s F1 Cars would have been pretty straightforward to model as they were very simplistic compared to modern cars.
The lack of competition for the vintage Lotus cars has been the biggest disappointment of PC2 for me.

balderz002
04-09-2018, 08:30
Found this in the download section
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?58911-1970-Lotus-Type-49C-Cosworth-(No-chat!)
might be useful for you.

That is a great scheme, and one i will be downloading when I next get the chance.....

satco1066
04-09-2018, 08:33
don't really know, why they didn't add any old F1 car.
But defunct teams, does not imply defunct license holders.
Often such old licenses are in the hands of many different companies and holders are hard to find.
Maybe FIA has their hands on it forever, with 500 years licenses ;)

On the other hand, i'm with you. So many great cars from the last century :eagerness:

balderz002
04-09-2018, 09:09
I was reading a pull out special booklet from motorsport magazine about the new Brabham BT62. Reading about David re-obtaining all the rights to the Brabham F1 name took him about 10 years and a lot of concerted effort.

Tank621
04-09-2018, 09:22
Well if we would get any dlc past this season pass, there are no files to show that currently. Also, no one foresaw the Ferrari challenge car we got as a freebie either......

I'm pretty sure we knew about the car but it was definitely unexpected as a free car

I remember that the 70's Ferrari Prototypes and the 250 GT were the last to be discovered which made it look like the 488 was part of the pack as we still had gaps

hkraft300
04-09-2018, 10:05
I would have thought that late 60s F1 Cars would have been pretty straightforward to model as they were very simplistic compared to modern cars.


From reading Ringley's physics of posts it seems the opposite. Manufacturers can provide CAD data for modern cars that get ported into the game. Older cars, if Ringley's team are lucky, have schematic drawings that need to be modelled. If they're unlucky, the plans are lost in history and/or there were many un/poorly documented modifications to the original plans.
If they can get their hands on an existing example of a vintage car I guess they can laser scan it... but then how easily do you source a vintage and get enough access to it? Make friends with Jay Leno? Sneak about at goodwood?

Tank621
04-09-2018, 10:20
From reading Ringley's physics of posts it seems the opposite. Manufacturers can provide CAD data for modern cars that get ported into the game. Older cars, if Ringley's team are lucky, have schematic drawings that need to be modelled. If they're unlucky, the plans are lost in history and/or there were many un/poorly documented modifications to the original plans.
If they can get their hands on an existing example of a vintage car I guess they can laser scan it... but then how easily do you source a vintage and get enough access to it? Make friends with Jay Leno? Sneak about at goodwood?

I think museums are their their usual choice, I know they got a lot of the Porsche's from the Porsche Museum

Stewy32
04-09-2018, 10:38
This is a genuine question and not a dig at the developers.
Why have we not had any classic F1 DLC ?
Is it not possible to include cars from defunct teams like Cooper, BRM or Honda ?
I would have thought that late 60s F1 Cars would have been pretty straightforward to model as they were very simplistic compared to modern cars.
The lack of competition for the vintage Lotus cars has been the biggest disappointment of PC2 for me.

It is harder to get licenses for no longer existing teams,because of the ownership of the license.

Tank621
04-09-2018, 10:58
It is harder to get licenses for no longer existing teams,because of the ownership of the license.

However a lot of historic brands have been represented in other games or had their vehicles licensed as toys so there are some that we know can be found: Brabham is back so that isn't too diffcult to get hold of. Eagle has already been mentioned as a potential as Forza has it, Lola is of course another that can be gotten hold of. I'm pretty sure there is a Shadow Hotwheels car and the Matra and Talbot licenses are probably still held by Peugeot. March is represented in RFactor 2 so that can still be found as well

Outside of that many of the classic cars are part of brands that still exist or were merged into a current brand

Vic Flange
04-09-2018, 11:21
From reading Ringley's physics of posts it seems the opposite. Manufacturers can provide CAD data for modern cars that get ported into the game. Older cars, if Ringley's team are lucky, have schematic drawings that need to be modelled. If they're unlucky, the plans are lost in history and/or there were many un/poorly documented modifications to the original plans.
If they can get their hands on an existing example of a vintage car I guess they can laser scan it... but then how easily do you source a vintage and get enough access to it? Make friends with Jay Leno? Sneak about at goodwood?

Here would be a great place to start.

https://www.donington-collections.co.uk
Well worth a visit.

Stewy32
04-09-2018, 12:20
Here would be a great place to start.

https://www.donington-collections.co.uk
Well worth a visit.

Their is a nice place to visit

xbx012
04-09-2018, 13:31
It is harder to get licenses for no longer existing teams,because of the ownership of the license.

The latest Forza 7 has every car from the 1967 formula 1 grid, has laudas Ferrari and hunts mclaren from the 70's and even has senna's mclaren and prosts Ferrari from the 90's and also has the 2017 Renault F1 car to name a few. With PCars2 having Renault, mclarens, Ferrari brands in the game it would not be a push to try and get all that

A short video of the 67 grid racing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVPzBqP6Ni8

satco1066
04-09-2018, 13:49
Forza has Microsoft in the background.
All that many licenses are not a thing of " just do it", its a thing of big daddy, who pays the bill ;)

Tank621
04-09-2018, 14:25
The latest Forza 7 has every car from the 1967 formula 1 gridhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVPzBqP6Ni8

Nowhere near it mate, most manufacturers fielded multiple different car models back then and even then not all manufacturers are represented:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Formula_One_season

Stewy32
04-09-2018, 15:00
The latest Forza 7 has every car from the 1967 formula 1 grid, has laudas Ferrari and hunts mclaren from the 70's and even has senna's mclaren and prosts Ferrari from the 90's and also has the 2017 Renault F1 car to name a few. With PCars2 having Renault, mclarens, Ferrari brands in the game it would not be a push to try and get all that

A short video of the 67 grid racing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVPzBqP6Ni8

1) It doesn't have every car from 1967.
2) Often car Manafacturers license their F1 cars and their other cars seperately.
3) Turn 10 are a lot richer and can pay for the Historic F1 car license, as they have 20x SMS budget.

cpcdem
04-09-2018, 15:19
The latest Forza 7 has every car from the 1967 formula 1 grid, has laudas Ferrari and hunts mclaren from the 70's and even has senna's mclaren and prosts Ferrari from the 90's and also has the 2017 Renault F1 car to name a few. With PCars2 having Renault, mclarens, Ferrari brands in the game it would not be a push to try and get all that

A short video of the 67 grid racing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVPzBqP6Ni8

Also do those cars handle in Forza somewhat even remotely close to how they really did in real life? Not saying in PCARS they are perfect by any means, but at least judging from the video above, it's very hard to believe that those cars were behaving anything like that. I don't think that creating 20 car models is too difficult, but making them behave more or less realistically I suspect it's a lot harder...

Shinzah
04-09-2018, 15:37
Also do those cars handle in Forza somewhat even remotely close to how they really did in real life? Not saying in PCARS they are perfect by any means, but at least judging from the video above, it's very hard to believe that those cars were behaving anything like that. I don't think that creating 20 car models is too difficult, but making them behave more or less realistically I suspect it's a lot harder...

Given in the first 20 seconds of the race he's made contact something like a billion times and hasn't broken anything, I doubt it.

But he also did have assists and such turned on...

Anyway, everyone knows GPL is the gold standard for classic F1.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ejf-USDSE

xbx012
04-09-2018, 15:40
If you turn the assist off etc it handles 'kinda' like the lotus 49 in pcars, and at times slides like it did in gpl. I meant the main teams from 67, and you can also mod the paint jobs.
But I never said Forza would come anywhere near the handling of Pcars, was just pointing out another game managed to put all those cars in with no such licensing issues etc, so surly a 'sim' like cars could have tried, even if it meant sacrificing some lesser cars, instead we seem to be getting a lot of road cars which actually feels more like a Forza thing to do lol

As for the money thing, yeah prob is to do with that, although that reason gets used a lot for this game, meanwhile the pcars developer is ploughing money into a fast and furious game.... I think a lot of pcars fans would rather see that time and money used in pcars but just my opinion.

RacingAtHome
04-09-2018, 16:54
Here would be a great place to start.

https://www.donington-collections.co.uk
Well worth a visit.

And the Bealieu Motor Museum as well.
https://nationalmotormuseum.org.uk/collections/vehicles/

And Williams Heritage for Williams F1 cars. It makes me wonder if they have the Renault Laguna that was unable to be sourced.

Plato99
07-09-2018, 15:35
This is a genuine question and not a dig at the developers.
Why have we not had any classic F1 DLC ?
Is it not possible to include cars from defunct teams like Cooper, BRM or Honda ?
I would have thought that late 60s F1 Cars would have been pretty straightforward to model as they were very simplistic compared to modern cars.
The lack of competition for the vintage Lotus cars has been the biggest disappointment of PC2 for me.

I'm with you there pal.
Rouen les Essarts in a full grid of '68 F1 cars?
Yes please!

Vic Flange
08-09-2018, 09:33
I'm with you there pal.
Rouen les Essarts in a full grid of '68 F1 cars?
Yes please!
I had a fantastic race against the AI at Classic Silverstone in the Lotus 49 the other night. Full grid, in VR, heel toe and never more than a couple of seconds between the top three over 25 laps (I won with a pass into the final chicane on the last lap). Now imagine that but with Brabhams, Ferrari’s, Matras, Hondas, Coopers, BRMs and Eagles. That would be sim perfection for me.
I think the star of the show of all the DLC for PC2 has been the Vintage Le Mans content. Beautiful track and fantastic cars. More of this please SMS and less copycat road cars.
I have the season pass but would pay handsomely for a 1967 F1 DLC with cars and tracks. I’d pay the full price of the game again for that.

Hugo Catarino
08-09-2018, 14:41
I had a fantastic race against the AI at Classic Silverstone in the Lotus 49 the other night. Full grid, in VR, heel toe and never more than a couple of seconds between the top three over 25 laps (I won with a pass into the final chicane on the last lap). Now imagine that but with Brabhams, Ferrari’s, Matras, Hondas, Coopers, BRMs and Eagles. That would be sim perfection for me.
I think the star of the show of all the DLC for PC2 has been the Vintage Le Mans content. Beautiful track and fantastic cars. More of this please SMS and less copycat road cars.
I have the season pass but would pay handsomely for a 1967 F1 DLC with cars and tracks. I’d pay the full price of the game again for that.

I too aswell,just add a classical version of nordschleife and monaco,more F1 cars from the 60s and 70s (as sportcars obviously!) and i would pay very well for it.
But,to be fair,your race was that competive because the cars are all alike.Brabhams,Lotus,Ferrari,McLaren,Honda...diferent cars,different performances,very hard to see close racing after 25 laps

balderz002
08-09-2018, 20:22
I've been having great races at Silverstone GP classic also, in the 49 and 49c. Normally I have AI at around the 70-75 mark. With a few great sessions in both cars I am upto 95 and still a couple of seconds ahead on fastest laps against the AI. Also the same for Classic Monza.

Classic content is Deffo my fave part of the game.

Vic Flange
08-09-2018, 23:01
I've been having great races at Silverstone GP classic also, in the 49 and 49c. Normally I have AI at around the 70-75 mark. With a few great sessions in both cars I am upto 95 and still a couple of seconds ahead on fastest laps against the AI. Also the same for Classic Monza.

Classic content is Deffo my fave part of the game.

I love the classic content. I’ve honed my skills so that I now race in the 49 at 120 skill and 100 aggression.

I’ve just been playing around with the Lotus Formula Ford. That is a TON of fun. Loads of full corner power slides at Classic Silverstone. Needs the diff tweaking though to tame the back end.

Vic Flange
08-09-2018, 23:03
I too aswell,just add a classical version of nordschleife and monaco,more F1 cars from the 60s and 70s (as sportcars obviously!) and i would pay very well for it.
But,to be fair,your race was that competive because the cars are all alike.Brabhams,Lotus,Ferrari,McLaren,Honda...diferent cars,different performances,very hard to see close racing after 25 laps
It would be nice to have different cars with different strengths and weaknesses.

Stewy32
09-09-2018, 09:28
Even the Watson Roadster is fun pretty much everywhere.

balderz002
09-09-2018, 20:36
It would be nice to have different cars with different strengths and weaknesses.

Sometimes its nice to kick arse with the under dog!