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View Full Version : Well i completed career today, my personal summary of the game upto now...



dan2312
11-09-2018, 00:26
Not quiet done the entire game though, still got some manufacturer and invitationals to complete.

I just thought I would share my thoughts and pet loves and hates, I started the career from patch 1.3 because the tyres system was a bit naff before that patch. :)

Bearing in mind I completed around 90% of races at 100% length and mostly at 100% difficulty.

The championships I loved and thought was flawless was the WEC endurance races and Formula Races but the AI was a bit of a pain for hooking off my rear wheel at early starts in some races.

The Karts was also fantastic, I never wanted it to end! Absoloutley surprised me how much fun they was, better than in PC 1. PLEASE SMS KEEP THEM IN PCARS 3!

The indy racing at Indianapolis at 200 laps was bloody testing and fun! it taken me hours to complete the race going round in circles, The amount of concentration needed to turn left over and over is asstounding!

Touring cars was ACE, but my only gripe was lack of car variety.

Rallying was a nice breath of fresh air when I got to it, it taken me a lot of practising and setting up the civic before diving in and to get used to it, The AI was always challenging, but seemed to have to much grip at loheac.

But the championships and cars I really really disliked was:

Group C, I found them difficult to drive and annoying to setup. I wanted that season to end!

The pinnacle of all evil to race with though must have been the Group 5 Rennsport Revival, I used the Ford Capri, In Pcars 1 I used the same car and enjoyed it, But in Pcars 2, it was an ultimate nightmare to control, It was difficult to get the boost percentage right and throttle control was difficult with a big turbo wap. I lost my temper in the end and reduced AI to 20 and shortned the races. I lost my temper on the Algarve track with these things.


I found the Renault Clios boring, even after several patches the AI was unrealistic driving in a line same distance apart like a train.

The Ford Raptor has zero grip at low speeds in the invitational low grip races, I think it needs looking at. Ive had to tame the AI to 50 to stand a chance.

Ive played 10 races in multiplayer, ive had fun, ive been rear ended by muppets at the start of the race trying to ruin my day, but because im confident in my abilities, I repaired the car and managed to break into the the top 5 if race length allowed.
But when the race is full of sensible people its genuine fun and competitive and I concentrate more.



Anyhow, I wanted to say a thank you to SMS for producing another fantastic racing simulation\game and its taken many patches to get it 'almost' running correctly.

isamu
18-09-2018, 13:08
Great summary and yes, the campaign is fantastic.

Urban Chaos 2.0
18-09-2018, 17:48
Great summary and yes, the campaign is fantastic.

In my opinion the campaign is lacking severely in atmosphere. There need to be cutscenes for pole position, podium places, meeting team goals, etc. The crowd needs to cheer when certain things happen on track, and the better you perform, the more fans you should have, etc. It would be really great, if for example, driver relationships, media attention, and driver value were integrated into the campaign experience. Right now though... it's kind of bland and somewhat boring, I feel. There's nothing to immerse you into the campaign world.

I remember F1 2013 having such a decent campaign, I played 4 consecutive seasons. I only stopped because I became occupied by more important things in the real world. Barring that, I'm sure I never would've stopped playing. If Project Cars 2 featured a decent singleplayer campaign, sales would shoot through the f***ing roof, I promise you.

Javaniceday
18-09-2018, 18:14
My problem with the career mode is that it's set up as if it were a game. Which it is. As the OP said, he did practically everything. But I wish they would set it up to... simulate a real career a little better. In real life, people have to choose what career path they'll take. Contracts need to matter. 1 year contract, 2 year contract. A specific team maybe races in several tiers, and part of your contract is that you race with only them - and if you break it, that team will be unavailable for you in the future. Or maybe there's some team rivalries that carry on from tier to tier - maybe to move up a tier, you have to jump to a rival team - or not. Maybe start with a lower rank team in one tier - next season, within the same championship, you get a contract offer from a higher rank team - or if you totally out drive your own car's rating, you get to jump to a higher tier right away. Once you're a factory driver, you would stay with that manufacturer as you go from tier to tier.

For all the other extra championships, those oughta be their own thing, outside of career mode. Oh, and lastlly, no scripted weather. Man, scripted weather is so lame.

Bealdor
18-09-2018, 18:16
In my opinion the campaign is lacking severely in atmosphere. There need to be cutscenes for pole position, podium places, meeting team goals, etc. The crowd needs to cheer when certain things happen on track, and the better you perform, the more fans you should have, etc. It would be really great, if for example, driver relationships, media attention, and driver value were integrated into the campaign experience. Right now though... it's kind of bland and somewhat boring, I feel. There's nothing to immerse you into the campaign world.

Well, different strokes for different folks I guess.
I'd watch cutscenes once and then most likely would click them away afterwards. I'm already annoyed by those 3s prerace cut scenes on standing starts tbh.
Media attention/doing interviews... I'd hate those. lol

There's interviews in some sports games already and they always feel like a chore to me. IMO they could even get rid of this social media and email stuff that's already in PCARS 2 career mode.
Everything that's keeping me away from starting the next on track session feels useless to me.
But that's just my opinion.

Urban Chaos 2.0
18-09-2018, 18:24
Well, different strokes for different folks I guess.
I'd watch cutscenes once and then most likely would click them away afterwards. I'm already annoyed by those 3s prerace cut scenes on standing starts tbh.
Media attention/doing interviews... I'd hate those. lol

There's interviews in some sports games already and they always feel like a chore to me. IMO they could even get rid of this social media and email stuff that's already in PCARS 2 career mode.
Everything that's keeping me away from starting the next on track session feels useless to me.
But that's just my opinion.

This is why, disabling those cutscenes/features, should be an option. I'd hate to have my experience ruined by your preferences, just as you'd hate for me to ruin things for you, lol. Choice, is a great thing to have in life. The fact is, the majority of people would prefer to have those immersing features in the campaign experience. An authentic motorsports atmosphere in Project Cars 2's career mode, is something I would readily pay another $60 for.

Schnizz58
18-09-2018, 20:44
But that's just my opinion.
Mine too. I'm fine with giving people choices but resources are always limited. Any time (which is to say money) spent on adding cut scenes and other fluff is time not spent improving the game play.

John Hargreaves
18-09-2018, 20:51
The F1xx series does career and cutscenes as good as anyone, and last week in F1 2017, I won a race in the McLaren, and it was great to see Alonso top of the podium with Hamilton and Vettel behind. Little gems like this are fun, but I generally agree that you tend to skip these bits after a while, so I can see how it's a lot of development work for limited return.

Keena
18-09-2018, 20:52
The driving experience is second to none. Calling it a career mode however, does not make it a career mode. What is a series of custom races with pre set weather in teams where performance is the same no matter what 'contract' you sign, an email system that has literally no point to it etc etc.. its disappointing in game that is otherwise so brilliant, and leaves me feeling unfulfilled after each victory, because theres just no point. I might as well do a series of custom races and call it my career.. ahh well. Maybe next time. Dirt Rally suffers from the same so its not exactly a unique problem.. f1 2017 tried, but its missed the point i guess otherwise everyone would be going 'hey that f1 2017 was the business in career mode'.. maybe some kind of reward system to tickle the ambition/reward synapses.. i like it that you have to finish in the top 3 to progress, but here dirt rally has the edge- pre defined difficulties where if you finish in the bottom 3 you actually go down a level, so you take care to finish even if its not first, because those points are important, and restarting costs..a lot. So suddenly youre happy with your 5th position because its championship points that matter, because thetes consequences that cant be undone with a restart button without a level of hurt. If you want to drive one of the locked cars in project cars career you can by just doing a custom race, so whats the point of locking them in career (and who cares because within a series the performance between teams is identical)..? So yeah, it feels a bit meh to me :( Which is a real shame because i could honestly become an SMS cash cow but for the lack of an immersive career.

bmanic
18-09-2018, 21:12
Agreed. The career mode had a lot of suggestions for pCars 2 due to the first game and basically none of it came to fruition. Some bad design choices reappeared, even though I've never seen anybody like them at all in the first game (the AI being worse in regional championships and the scripted weather).

The whole campaign thing definitely feels rushed and simplistic. I always got a little chuckle out of the notion that this is supposed to be like a FIFA game or other sports games with campaigns, yet contains none of the tricks those games use to give their campaigns some depth and immersion.

I really do think that the future for immersive campaigns in simulator software is similar to what codemasters are doing. What I mean by that is NOT the cutscenes.. but the mood. Mood can be created with audio and text too. Production values don't have to be sky high to set a mood and immersion. Depth is created by having consequences. Thus in simulator games consequences mean crashes, failures etc.. basically the game needs an economy, a system that remembers past choises. As we are mostly dealing with fictional racing teams, why not give them various stats for reliability, pit crew effectiveness, money (or at least some kind of currency/financials), leadership, teammates etc.

Sure, this would require a larger team to dedicate themselves to a macro-simulation of the campaign but this would definitely create a satisfying single player experience, heck why not a multiplayer too (co-op campaign). It's also something nobody has attempted properly in a very long time (except the codemasters but even theirs is quite shallow and has potential for much more).

I think the simplistic nature of the campaign is one of the reasons many were so frustrated that there wasn't a single player custom championship option. Then at least the player could have created the exact races they wanted and still end up with an equally linear and "pointless" experience but with a personal touch.

So yeah, for pCars 3 I really hope they ditch this type of campaign and instead add a single player (or multiplayer) custom championship option instead. One that can include numerous car classes in series. Or if they want to tackle the scripted campaign again then do it properly, with immersion in mind, as was mostly the case for sports games.

Keena
18-09-2018, 21:14
Nail on the head there Bmanic. Consequences. Thats what makes the fight worth it or not. Couldnt agree more.

Urban Chaos 2.0
18-09-2018, 22:00
Mine too. I'm fine with giving people choices but resources are always limited. Any time (which is to say money) spent on adding cut scenes and other fluff is time not spent improving the game play.

That argument makes no sense, Schnizz. SMS might as well not spend any time/money on graphics, sounds, etc. because that does not improve "gameplay". Of course, those do improve gameplay. Funnily, Not nearly as much as a functional, career mode does though. You need to spend time/money to improve a product. If you don't, you end up with garbage (like AC and iRacing), which is only kept alive by a small group of delusional nutjobs who hate change/improvements, and have attributed their entire identity to something. All this, while trying to justify the product to which they are attached, by wilfully and obstinately skewing their perceptions of reality, and trying desperately to skew everyone else's by propagandising their product. What do you think Project Cars 3 can deliver, besides the inevitable A.I., graphics, and multiplayer improvements? We don't want, the same game + some updates. Evolution. Evolution is is very important.

The work done on Project Cars 2 is truly massive. I can see that. If not for time-constraints, SMS would have certainly delivered a much more meaningful single-player campaign experience. A testament to the importance of a career mode is the continued presence of F1 and Fifa games. People buy F1 games because the driver lineup is updated, and so are the cars. This matches real life, and allows them to play Pretend Race Cars in a manner which matches their present-day realities of drivers and teams. Yearly Fifa games present the same kinds of enjoyment. The emotive mechanisms which keep those games alive is what a decent career mode will fuel. Being a genuine driving simulator with a wide variety of cars and tracks, Project Cars 2 is at a great advantage over the likes of F1, and this will make itself manifest if they greatly enhance the career mode experience.

Schnizz58
18-09-2018, 23:37
That argument makes no sense, Schnizz.
Sure it does. There is limited budget to develop a game. There is limited time. So a game developer needs to focus on things that make the game more fun (i.e., sell more copies) and de-prioritize things that don't. Time and money spent on superfluous stuff takes away from time and money that could be spent on making the game better. I don't see how you can disagree with that.

What we disagree on is what features make the game better. In your opinion more cut scenes and having the fans applaud your bold overtake would make the game better. To me they wouldn't. I'd rather have a sane penalty system, non-scripted weather, custom championships and things like that. So I think we can agree to disagree on this one, and that's fine. Not everybody is looking for the same features in a game. You expressed your opinion. Bealdor and I expressed ours.

Urban Chaos 2.0
19-09-2018, 07:03
Sure it does.

Either you've missed the point completely, or are trying to defend your erroneous professions for nothing but the sake that they are yours. If you want to pretend to know that SMS can't afford to revamp their single-player campaign, and that their resources are so limited, they can't do so while improving other things, then I will leave you to do just that. Nevermind of course, all the evidence which exists to disprove your assertions.

I should take the time to point out to you, something I've seen all over the place. It is a mindset of failure. You are advocating complacency and justifying mediocrity. This is very bad. I've seen it in places like the Piboso forum (a forum for some bike game), where people make excuses for a game's failures, shortcomings, inadequacies, etc. Where is GP-Bikes (that bike game) today, after 15+ years (yes, THAT LONG)? Nowhere. Because the developer has a mindset similar to that which is expressed by your sentiments, and the most prominent members on that forum are the same. Any people on that forum who don't share such a mindset of failure, tend to come into conflict those members who do, and so they leave the forum. Bike Sim Experience (An up-coming bike simulator) however, started about 2 years ago. Look at how far they've come though. They WILL far surpass anything that GP-Bikes has ever achieved because unlike you, and those who think like you (i.e. the folks who surround the game/forum), they aren't full of unreasonable excuses to keep failing, and to underachieve. When there is something which can be done, the one who succeeds, is the one who says "we can do it". The one who will never succeed, is the one who never runs out of reasons as to why he can't/shouldn't. Such a person will even pretend to know that the resources aren't there for someone else to do something (as you have just done), just so they can rest assured that it can't be done.


In your opinion more cut scenes and having the fans applaud your bold overtake would make the game better.

Lol, Please. Don't try and minimise my argument to such a juvenile account. That won't work. It will take much more than that to give credence to the things you are trying to defend. If you knew how much work SMS had to put into Project Cars 2, I know for a fact, that you'd be saying "It's not possible :frown-new:", "waah, waah waah :frown-new:", "I'd rather have 2 features, instead of all these :frown-new:" "There's no money :frown-new:", etc. Hahahaha :D. Well, as I said: You can keep doing that. Maybe it works out perfectly for you ;).

I think we should leave that discussion at that ;).

Schnizz58
19-09-2018, 12:39
Wow....talk about missing the point.

I guess I'll try one more time to make it clear and if you still don't get it, I'll give up. SMS start out with a finite pile of money and a finite amount of sand in the hourglass. When either of them run out they're done. Sometimes you can get a little more sand.

They have to decide what to spend that money and time on. If they spend some of it on your cuts scenes and such, that's time and money they can't spend on other things.

I don't understand why that concept is hard for you to grasp.

Urban Chaos 2.0
19-09-2018, 12:56
You still don't get it. You can pretend you do. You don't. Take your own advice pal. Give up.

I have better things to do with my time.

Schnizz58
19-09-2018, 12:57
Is your assertion that they start with infinite money?

Bealdor
19-09-2018, 13:11
You still don't get it.

Could you explain it then please? Because apparently I don't get it either.

Budget constraints are a real issue in game development. When you're running a company with a staff of 100+ people, you're burning ~1.000.000$ per month(!) which means you'll have to priotize right from the beginning what you're planning to deliver and WHEN you're going to deliver it.
And if your priority is improvements in vehicle physics, dynamic track conditions and amount of cars+tracks then it's just logical that other features like a more immersive career mode are getting the short stick so to say.

Sankyo
19-09-2018, 13:38
Could you explain it then please? Because apparently I don't get it either.

Budget constraints are a real issue in game development. When you're running a company with a staff of 100+ people, you're burning ~1.000.000$ per month(!) which means you'll have to priotize right from the beginning what you're planning to deliver and WHEN you're going to deliver it.
And if your priority is improvements in vehicle physics, dynamic track conditions and amount of cars+tracks then it's just logical that other features like a more immersive career mode are getting the short stick so to say.
On top of that, quite a few of us have been involved in the creation of pCARS and pCARS2 and have witnessed first-hand how intended features had to be dropped, or comprehensive implementation of certain features had to be replaced by rudimentary ones because of resource, time and money constraints. Declaring that to be just a 'mindset of failure' is confessing you don't (want to) understand at all, and a painful reference to the 'success is a choice' nonsense.

Also, all of this is not limited to game creation, but applies to any form of development that involves complex software and deadlines.

bmanic
19-09-2018, 13:48
I think the core of what he is trying to get at is this: SMS should choose wisely what to include and what not to include. The campaign of pCars 2 was heavily advertised during and before the release as aking to something like FIFA (mentioned several times exactly like this). This is all fine and dandy if that would actually be the case. Well, it's not. It's like saying super mario brothers 3 is an RPG because you have a few items you can choose from and gather.

IF they make a campaign and want to advertise it as a proper single player experience, then make it well. Put some actual effort into it. If this is not possible then dump the idea.. make a simple custom championship that the players themselves can choose.

For pCars 2 the latter would have been a much better choise in my opinion.

@bealdor: Yes there is a finite amount of money but that priority argument doesn't hold water. There are of course different people assigned to each part of the game development. This very same defense you are now using, you yourself have been defending against when people say they need better physics and that SMS "should not do X so that Y gets better". So yeah, this kind of argument can't be used in my opinion unless you are ready to accept the same defense from the other side of the coin.

Either you hire a team to do the campaign, or you don't. Sure, it costs extra money but it should then be a "chunk" of money allocated or not. Just like "chunks" of resources are given to the physics team, the graphics team, online programming etc.

bmanic
19-09-2018, 13:50
On top of that, quite a few of us have been involved in the creation of pCARS and pCARS2 and have witnessed first-hand how intended features had to be dropped, or comprehensive implementation of certain features had to be replaced by rudimentary ones because of resource, time and money constraints. Declaring that to be just a 'mindset of failure' is confessing you don't (want to) understand at all, and a painful reference to the 'success is a choice' nonsense.

Also, all of this is not limited to game creation, but applies to any form of development that involves complex software and deadlines.

I really do think the main disconnect yet again, as with some other features of the game, is how it was advertised and how it then actually turned out (almost 1 to 1 identical with pCars 1). It was advertised as being more complex and comprehensive than it was.

EDIT: I do agree with you though. It is even possible there was huge plans for the campaign and that they simply got dumped at a later stage as SMS noticed it wasn't possible to do properly and thus we ended up with the simple campaign we have today. This is of course very common in game development. Still, that's not an excuse to use. It is what it is. One can only look forward to the next game and see what priorities are taken. Perhaps the metrics from the users show that a very small % of people actually play the campaign (or vice versa) and thus there's no point in making one (or actually make a really good one with real depth to it).

Bealdor
19-09-2018, 13:57
@bealdor: Yes there is a finite amount of money but that priority argument doesn't hold water. There are of course different people assigned to each part of the game development. This very same defense you are now using, you yourself have been defending against when people say they need better physics and that SMS "should not do X so that Y gets better". So yeah, this kind of argument can't be used in my opinion unless you are ready to accept the same defense from the other side of the coin.

Either you hire a team to do the campaign, or you don't. Sure, it costs extra money but it should then be a "chunk" of money allocated or not. Just like "chunks" of resources are given to the physics team, the graphics team, online programming etc.

Of course I'm not forgetting that. You have to consider that based on your priorities you're going to hire different people.
If you want to significantly improve vehicle physics you're going to employ devs specialised in this field and less UI designers/coders for example.
Or (if you want to avoid high fluctuations in your staff) you give the physics devs and coders more time "budget" while moving your UI devs on to a different project earlier.

So yeah, you could decide to hire a team for the campaign so to say, but then you'd have to cut the budget on your physics department.
I don't see how that contradicts what I was saying above.

Shinzah
19-09-2018, 13:58
One can only look forward to the next game and see what priorities are taken. Perhaps the metrics from the users show that a very small % of people actually play the campaign (or vice versa) and thus there's no point in making one (or actually make a really good one with real depth to it).

As a singleplayer pleb, no good sp, no buy. Too many games are moving away from the singleplayer experience. But I have no interest in most multiplayer and even if I did, I can't play multiplayer on my connection.

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 14:11
As a singleplayer pleb, no good sp, no buy. Too many games are moving away from the singleplayer experience. But I have no interest in most multiplayer and even if I did, I can't play multiplayer on my connection.

Well, given that mp players are probably less than 10% of the total PC2 players, I highly doubt SMS is putting more effort in mp than in sp...Btw, to me the only racing game with fantastic career was Grid 2, that really made you have targets and gave you a sense of fulfillment. Too bad its physics were too arcade though.

Shinzah
19-09-2018, 14:14
Grid 2 or Toca 3 for me, the progression in both was perfect.

Pcars 2 progression is a little strange...

Sankyo
19-09-2018, 14:36
I really do think the main disconnect yet again, as with some other features of the game, is how it was advertised and how it then actually turned out (almost 1 to 1 identical with pCars 1). It was advertised as being more complex and comprehensive than it was.
IMO This is a valid point. Even if only setting targets and not commitments early-on in development, when those plans are in the open they will quickly turn into expectations. If the game then gets less due to whatever reasons, some (vocal) people will be disappointed. Personally I'm expecting SMS to be more careful/restrictive with that in future projects.
IIRC one of the devs once commented that in pre-WMD days, players wouldn't know what they would get until the game was in the shops, which saved the devs a lot of headaches of explaining seemingly broken 'promises'.


EDIT: I do agree with you though. It is even possible there was huge plans for the campaign and that they simply got dumped at a later stage as SMS noticed it wasn't possible to do properly and thus we ended up with the simple campaign we have today. This is of course very common in game development. Still, that's not an excuse to use. It is what it is. One can only look forward to the next game and see what priorities are taken. Perhaps the metrics from the users show that a very small % of people actually play the campaign (or vice versa) and thus there's no point in making one (or actually make a really good one with real depth to it).
To me this is a bit of chicken-egg: do players not play much offline/campaign because it's not deep/interesting enough, or doesn't the offline campaign need to be developed much because of the limited attention it gets from players (disregarding for the moment the discussion what SMS wanted for the offline campaign and what eventually made it in)? Can't you win players for your game with a more in-depth campaign? Or does the nature of the game mean that not many players will be interested anyhow and focus should be on online play?

seb02
19-09-2018, 14:41
I am a mostly offline player and I must say that PC2's career mode is largely perfectible. First of all, some classes are not represented in the career mode, which is a shame. In addition, career mode is scripted (weather, date, time, number of AI, circuits ....)
I prefer an offline championship editor in which you can choose the circuits, the weather, the duration, the schedule, if you want a mandatory pit stop or not, ..... It was a disappointment to learn that it was not present in PC2.
Hoping it's in the next ....

Schnizz58
19-09-2018, 14:47
EDIT: I do agree with you though. It is even possible there was huge plans for the campaign and that they simply got dumped at a later stage as SMS noticed it wasn't possible to do properly and thus we ended up with the simple campaign we have today. This is of course very common in game development. Still, that's not an excuse to use. It is what it is. One can only look forward to the next game and see what priorities are taken. Perhaps the metrics from the users show that a very small % of people actually play the campaign (or vice versa) and thus there's no point in making one (or actually make a really good one with real depth to it).
I think that's possible. Priorities are not static. You start out with a pile of features and you prioritize them. Some things are gotta have - there is no game without them. In this case, things like the physics system, menuing system, etc. would probably be in that category. Then there are things that are important and lastly there are things that are nice to have. This is an over-simplification but I'm trying to illustrate a point. So then you have all these tasks prioritized and you try to estimate how long each of them will take. If there ever was an inexact science, this estimation process is it but you try to make the best guess you can. But then what happens if you grossly underestimated for example the physics system? It's going to take twice the man-hours you estimated. You have no choice but to scale back the scope of something else. I'm not saying this happened but it does happen.

You can say it's their bad for missing the estimate that badly and you'd be right. But when you're pushing the boundaries it's pretty easy to encounter issues that you didn't see coming.

Pekka Salminen
19-09-2018, 17:45
There was IMO one thing which PCars 1 got better what comes to career: the fact that you had contracts to only certain cars. Now the exitement is gone, when you can use all of the cars in class to partipicate in a certain championship. Of course it would be frustrating to only be offered a ride in a car you don't like that much, but that's like real motorsports for you :D And perhaps some options regarding procession and contracts would be good; to allow some players more "free" experience while others start from the bottom and are offered only certain contracts etc..

Bealdor
20-09-2018, 06:45
There was IMO one thing which PCars 1 got better what comes to career: the fact that you had contracts to only certain cars...

This was removed because too many players complained about it.

Sankyo
20-09-2018, 06:55
... We don't want, the same game + some updates. Evolution. Evolution is is very important.

... People buy F1 games because the driver lineup is updated, and so are the cars. This matches real life, and allows them to play Pretend Race Cars in a manner which matches their present-day realities of drivers and teams. Yearly Fifa games present the same kinds of enjoyment.
Funny you stress the importance of evolution in pCARS3, and then refer to the F1 and Fifa games as examples of great games while they are quite the classic example of "same game + some updates" :)

Keena
20-09-2018, 07:26
Funny you stress the importance of evolution in pCARS3, and then refer to the F1 and Fifa games as examples of great games while they are quite the classic example of "same game + some updates" :)

I would think he's referring to the career aspect, which is not as you describe. With F1 2017 they have introduced something quite different. Whether or not it was successful is a different conversation.

breyzipp
20-09-2018, 07:27
This is why, disabling those cutscenes/features, should be an option. I'd hate to have my experience ruined by your preferences, just as you'd hate for me to ruin things for you, lol. Choice, is a great thing to have in life. The fact is, the majority of people would prefer to have those immersing features in the campaign experience. An authentic motorsports atmosphere in Project Cars 2's career mode, is something I would readily pay another $60 for.

Absolutely agree! I'm also the immersion person and for example in Battlefield 1 when I played those operation campaigns for the first time, I ABSOLUTELY digged those informational voice overs and cut scenes about the war behind the map I was about to play. Having them spoken in native language I don't understand at all (Turkish, Russian, ...) with subtitles was even more immersive. Stuff like that is really awesome for players like me who like to immersive themselves but I know there are a lot of gamers who also think "I don't need to see this crap, just load the friggin' map so I can start killing". In Battlefield 1 those cutscenes are skippable as well (apart from the one you see while the map is loading, but that is a needed waiting time anyway).

The exact same thing goes for racing games. I like the pitstop crew animation in PCARS 2 and GT:Sport and I absolutely dislike the silly black band over the pits in Forza Motorsport hiding everything. They both absolutely serve no purpose but that is the difference between immersion and no immersion for me.

Having that said, I don't fully agree that the PCARS 2 career lacks atmosphere and immersion. The email messages, the race calendar, the formation and cooldown laps, the series introductory videos, and yes the animated pit crew all lead up to immersion. But I do agree a bit more cheering croud and overall "track/audience noise sound" would be welcome.

In the end the game is absolutely pulling out whatever power there is in the OG XBox One out of it and then still the performance on that system is not the greatest. I'm sure the devs are aware they have done everything they can to have the game run on everything from an OG X1 & low end PC to the X1X, PS4 Pro and high end PC setups. The flaw of the current console generation (even X1X and Pro) is raw CPU power and PCARS 2 with all it's livetrack 3.0 calculations needs quite a bit of that.

Let's hope with the next gen consoles the hardware is significantly better so developers can go more "all out" than they currently can. Because let's face it, every multiplatform game you design nowadays has to function with all bells and whistles on the OG X1 and I think that is seriously limiting the freedom of developers.

Konan
20-09-2018, 10:11
I agree that cutscenes can improve immersion....in story based games.
A racing game doesn't need them though IMO.
The career is fine as is for me but i would like to see some goals implemented...
For instance when you sign up for a team they could have the added goal that you need a third place finish at the end of the season or your contract isn't renewed...you then have to look for another team and those choices should become less and less depending on how you reach the goals,until you have to change to a lower tier or even another class...
I also think this should be combined by lower performing teams so that you actually degrade when missing said goals (each team performs equally ATM which isn't so IRL) and upgrade when achieving them,until you can sign for a top team...

bmanic
20-09-2018, 23:58
To me this is a bit of chicken-egg: do players not play much offline/campaign because it's not deep/interesting enough, or doesn't the offline campaign need to be developed much because of the limited attention it gets from players (disregarding for the moment the discussion what SMS wanted for the offline campaign and what eventually made it in)? Can't you win players for your game with a more in-depth campaign? Or does the nature of the game mean that not many players will be interested anyhow and focus should be on online play?

Very good point!

bmanic
21-09-2018, 00:01
I agree that cutscenes can improve immersion....in story based games.
A racing game doesn't need them though IMO.
The career is fine as is for me but i would like to see some goals implemented...
For instance when you sign up for a team they could have the added goal that you need a third place finish at the end of the season or your contract isn't renewed...you then have to look for another team and those choices should become less and less depending on how you reach the goals,until you have to change to a lower tier or even another class...
I also think this should be combined by lower performing teams so that you actually degrade when missing said goals (each team performs equally ATM which isn't so IRL) and upgrade when achieving them,until you can sign for a top team...

Yes, this. This would create "depth" to the career. Depth is exactly what is missing.

If we are being 100% honest, the career right now is extremely simple. It is just a bunch of single player races strung together in a specific order with SCRIPTED weather and the same opponents for a race class/season (opposed to random opponents in custom single player races). That's it. No matter how one would twist this around there is virtually no depth to be found.

Cholton82
21-09-2018, 06:29
I agree that cutscenes can improve immersion....in story based games.
A racing game doesn't need them though IMO.
The career is fine as is for me but i would like to see some goals implemented...
For instance when you sign up for a team they could have the added goal that you need a third place finish at the end of the season or your contract isn't renewed...you then have to look for another team and those choices should become less and less depending on how you reach the goals,until you have to change to a lower tier or even another class...
I also think this should be combined by lower performing teams so that you actually degrade when missing said goals (each team performs equally ATM which isn't so IRL) and upgrade when achieving them,until you can sign for a top team...

This would be perfect .

Keena
21-09-2018, 08:26
I agree that cutscenes can improve immersion....in story based games.
A racing game doesn't need them though IMO.
The career is fine as is for me but i would like to see some goals implemented...
For instance when you sign up for a team they could have the added goal that you need a third place finish at the end of the season or your contract isn't renewed...you then have to look for another team and those choices should become less and less depending on how you reach the goals,until you have to change to a lower tier or even another class...
I also think this should be combined by lower performing teams so that you actually degrade when missing said goals (each team performs equally ATM which isn't so IRL) and upgrade when achieving them,until you can sign for a top team...

Great ideas! There's another game that attempts this (dirt rally) where if you are in the bottom 3 you drop down a championship level. The difficulty with teams of differing ability is in setting the difficulty level to provide a tough challenge.. BUT WAIT- here's a solution ;) I read on the f1 2017 forum that what people do is a custom race in their chosen team and adjust the difficulty so that they are setting equal times to their team mate. Then they start their career mode at that difficulty and they are in the team mate battle while teams of better or worse performance don't impact on their chosen difficulty level.

It should be straightforward enough to automatically complete this process through say a testing day with an entry level team/formula.. complete say 20 laps, your team mate is synced to your best time, OR you complete 20 laps and the best lap generates contract offers from teams based on 100% difficulty..


Just ideas over my morning cup of tea.. ;)

Keena
21-09-2018, 08:32
Also the teams could be better or worse at things aside from just pace- tyre wear could be better or worse at some teams, team mates could be better or worse in terms of aggression, team expectations could be different even though they are similar in performance terms.. and that's the end of my cup of tea.

The thing I love about SMS is the interaction between the studio and the user base- its not always apparent but its why I get excited about seeing ideas threads like this :)