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Stocky
19-09-2018, 12:48
This doesn't make sense to me, and leads me to believe there is some sort of hacking.

I held the WR at Daytona up until September 6th, at which point Bestone01 beat my time by a couple of hundreds (his ghost was unavailable).

It took me several hours yesterday September 18th, to finally take that WR back. A thousandth & a hundredth at a time.

Then exactly 2 minutes after I post the WR, he beats me by almost a full tenth.

Was he sitting there in time trials waiting & watching for someone to beat him for the past 2 weeks? He would have had to of seen my new time, start the time trial, load his set up, do an out lap, and then get in 1 timed lap (all within seconds of my uploaded time). There isn't enough time for that, and if there was, how does he get a WR on his first lap since September 6th. And by a tenth none the less on Daytona Tri Oval, lol.

It doesn't add up, and by a full tenth which I think is almost impossible, let alone exactly 2 minutes after he saw my new record.

And once again, he hid his ghost, so there is no way to see his lap or his tune. I personally don't believe the time that's posted, and there's no ghost to prove it.

If you're that good Bestone01, then you shouldn't have to hide your ghost. And if your time is legit, then go time trial again, show your ghost, and prove it. And then I'll apologize.

In my opinion, if you hide your ghost car, then you're probably cheating. And hiding your ghost car isn't an option nor do I know how, so that's a hack to start with.

Take notice of the upload date & time.....

260136

maxx69
19-09-2018, 13:43
Maybe he was trying to beat his own time while you were trying to beat his time ?
Times are pretty darn close

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 13:52
Yeah, that was definitely a coincidence, he was time trialing at the same time as you, it happens. And one tenth is definitely feasible, especially since there was a new patch out recently, which might have affected some stuff, for example higher pressures might be giving a little bit extra advantage than before, or possibly brake ducts making more of a difference, things like that.

About the ghosts missing, it is not necessarily done on purpose, I had this always happening to my laps and had no idea why it was happening

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62941-Hide-setup-on-world-hot-lap&p=1505609&viewfull=1#post1505609
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62712-Unofficial-issue-list-Post-Patch-6-0&p=1540639&viewfull=1#post1540639

at the end I figured it out and it does not happen anymore, but I know it happens to others as well who are definitely not trying to cheat.

Stocky
19-09-2018, 13:57
Maybe he was trying to beat his own time while you were trying to beat his time ?
Times are pretty darn close

I highly doubt it.

It would be quite a coincidence, that 12 days later, he was trying to break the record at the exact same time I was. He had no need to anyway, since he already held the record.

And even if so, going up at Daytona by a tenth is a lot. Daytona is thousandths or hundredths at most.

Even if he would have gotten a hundredth here and there, I would have seen his times slowly go up in TT, while I was in TT trying to beat him.

I was watching the times, for hours, leading up to those upload times. Took me hours to get the 2 hundredths I needed to beat him.

Then 2 minutes later, he pulls off a tenth more than I? And hides his ghost. You don't think that's a little suspect?

MaximusN
19-09-2018, 14:25
Is it me or is the amount of duplicates suspect?
2x 46.279
3x 46.281
2x 46.299
2x 46.319

That's 9 which have a duplicate out of 13. Only 4 unique... So either there's something that rounds the timing to certain numbers or there a more suspicious activities...

maxx69
19-09-2018, 14:30
Terrorists?

Smoked_Cheddar
19-09-2018, 14:30
Is it me or is the amount of duplicates suspect?
2x 46.279
3x 46.281
2x 46.299
2x 46.319

That's 9 which have a duplicate out of 13. Only 4 unique... So either there's something that rounds the timing to certain numbers or there a more suspicious activities...

Not outright, that car at that track should have a restrictor plate in it, causing very close times. Though, gaining a full tenth like that is interesting. I don't normally do that car, either me, or my wheel does not agree with it.

MaximusN
19-09-2018, 14:35
Not outright, that car at that track should have a restrictor plate in it, causing very close times. Though, gaining a full tenth like that is interesting. I don't normally do that car, either me, or my wheel does not agree with it.

Close times is something different than 13 numbers within a spread of 0.215s having 1 value pop up 3 times

AND one 2 times
AND another one 2 times
AND another one 2 times.

So much that less than a third of the 13 is unique.

That's not just close that's highly unlikely to say the least.

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 14:49
Remember that a new patch was very recently out, which means physics have been at least slightly changed, so it is very possible that better lap times are possible now.

About the same identical "groups" of lap times, it indeed seems bizarre, but highly unlikely that dozens of players cheated the same way...looks more like a game glitch regarding timing to me, maybe due to the speeds involved it can't distinguish the exact correct time when a car passed the finish line. (with cars going 100m/s, so 10 cm per milisecond, there's always going to be some precision lost).

GrimeyDog
19-09-2018, 14:56
Is it me or is the amount of duplicates suspect?
2x 46.279
3x 46.281
2x 46.299
2x 46.319

That's 9 which have a duplicate out of 13. Only 4 unique... So either there's something that rounds the timing to certain numbers or there a more suspicious activities...

Duplicates are possible i had a duplicate time VS cpcdem in a touring car... It put My duplicate time ahead of his even though times were identical as far as what i saw on screen... I dunno if there are other hidden #'s that dont show.

maxx69
19-09-2018, 15:09
Sometimes you just get beat and that's pretty frustrating especially when you just set a new WR . It doesn't necessarily mean someone's cheating .
Unlikely things happen as do coincidences and that's spooky .
May well be some fidling somehow but it would probably be easier and more efficient to spend your time on track , beating the time legit .
Has anyone checked Hilary Clinton's emails ?

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 15:13
Duplicates are possible i had a duplicate time VS cpcdem in a touring car... It put My duplicate time ahead of his even though times were identical as far as what i saw on screen... I dunno if there are other hidden #'s that dont show.

Yeah, probably there are more digits, which are not displayed. But look at http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=2054003546&vehicle=851491257 there are way too many groups of a lot of identical laptimes, with large gaps between groups, too much to be a coincidence, probably a small game glitch regarding precision in timings.

Twinz
19-09-2018, 15:28
Close times on an oval is not that surprising. I have a few WR on ovals and my fastest times came from tire pressure adjustments and minimizing steering inputs. -very few variables went into changing my times on ovals so all of my times were frustratingly close.

My Nordschleife records, however, are made up of a multitude of variables. Sure, they generally involve a mixture of mistakes, skill and luck. But every time I make a run, I get a different mix of those things in different spots of the track. I may botch a turn that I absolutely nailed on my last lap. -or get lucky and just barely miss getting a penalty when I roll the dice and stay in the throttle in another spot.

Stocky
19-09-2018, 15:36
Yes, I don't find anything wrong with the ties or close times.

He beat me by about 2 hundredths on Sept 6th, then I beat him by about 2 hundredths on Sept 18th.

I would have expected him maybe to beat me again over the next week or so, by a couple of hundredths again, maybe. There isn't much room left for time, if any at all.

But it was that he beat me, 2 minutes after, and it wasn't by a couple hundredths, it was by a tenth, which is a lot for Daytona and very unusual.

He didn't just beat me, he destroyed me. And possibly, he was the one prevented me from seeing his ghost as well.

That was the part, that didn't make sense, and made me wonder if it's legit.

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 15:43
Yes, I don't find anything wrong with the ties or close times.

He beat me by about 2 hundredths on Sept 6th, then I beat him by about 2 hundredths on Sept 18th.

I would have expected him maybe to beat me again over the next week or so, by a couple of hundredths again, maybe.

But it was that he beat me, 2 minutes after, and it wasn't by a couple hundredths, it was by a tenth, which is a lot for Daytona and very unusual.

He didn't just beat me, he destroyed me. And possibly, he was the one prevented me from seeing his ghost.

That was the part, that didn't make sense.

Following the same thinking, you have also destroyed all the people behind you since your are now in 2nd, while 3rd place is also almost a tenth behind you. I think he just found a way to get that extra bit more, maybe with even higher tire pressures, something like that.

About the missing ghost, you could be right, but then again it is something that happens randomly to a lot of people, so it is also very possibly just a coincidence.

Stocky
19-09-2018, 15:47
I don't disagree entirely.

But, it's a lot of coincidences, including the ghost, the time, and when they were uploaded.

That's 3 coincidences right there, a hat trick.

When do you draw a line at coincidences, and say it's not anymore? After 2, 3, 4?

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 15:50
Close times on an oval is not that surprising. I have a few WR on ovals and my fastest times came from tire pressure adjustments and minimizing steering inputs. -very few variables went into changing my times on ovals so all of my times were frustratingly close.

My Nordschleife records, however, are made up of a multitude of variables. Sure, they generally involve a mixture of mistakes, skill and luck. But every time I make a run, I get a different mix of those things in different spots of the track. I may botch a turn that I absolutely nailed on my last lap. -or get lucky and just barely miss getting a penalty when I roll the dice and stay in the throttle in another spot.

Hey, just checked your times, 1.01.6 in Silverstone National with the GT5??? Wow, good lap, will give it a try to catch you :)

Stewy32
19-09-2018, 15:51
I highly doubt it.

It would be quite a coincidence, that 12 days later, he was trying to break the record at the exact same time I was. He had no need to anyway, since he already held the record.

And even if so, going up at Daytona by a tenth is a lot. Daytona is thousandths or hundredths at most.

Even if he would have gotten a hundredth here and there, I would have seen his times slowly go up in TT, while I was in TT trying to beat him.

I was watching the times, for hours, leading up to those upload times. Took me hours to get the 2 hundredths I needed to beat him.

Then 2 minutes later, he pulls off a tenth more than I? And hides his ghost. You don't think that's a little suspect?

People Amy hide their ghost due to other settings, or because they don't want to be "targeted".Anyway,how do you cheat at Daytona that the ghost would notice.

Also, if he only jut beat your time the first time he would want to improve.

Shinzah
19-09-2018, 15:52
I don't disagree entirely.

But, it's a lot of coincidences, including the ghost, the time, and when they were uploaded.

That's 3 coincidences right there, a hat trick.

When do you draw a line at coincidences, and say it's not anymore. After 2, 3, 4?

If I was going to destroy the time of someone, I wouldn't do it by a small margin that's probably surmountable. I'd do a 44 at least. If my goal was to top the leaderboards.

It doesn't make much sense that this guy is whittling down a tenth at a time if he's cheating. He could just go for the stars.

The main thing here is that it's a surmountable amount of time, it's not clearly a "two minutes later he gapped me by two or three seconds" kind of situation. The simpler explanation is, he was trialing at the same time and went faster than you did.

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 15:54
I don't disagree entirely.

But, it's a lot of coincidences, including the ghost, the time, and when they were uploaded.

That's 3 coincidences right there, a hat trick.

When do you draw a line at coincidences, and say it's not anymore? After 2, 3, 4?

Good point, but I would definitely not call the time he did a coincidence, just because it happened to be much faster :). So it's only two coincidences, which I think it is very plausible that they were just that.

Stocky
19-09-2018, 16:13
Good point, but I would definitely not call the time he did a coincidence, just because it happened to be much faster :). So it's only two coincidences, which I think it is very plausible that they were just that.

Good point as well, the time may not be a coincidence. So maybe only 2 coincidences.

I know how to adjust settings, and have played with them all, obviously. Tire pressures are the most effective, and I have adjusted them extensively, while trying to beat his time.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt, that his time is legit, and the ghost & upload time were just coincidences.

But I have spent countless of hours, this week alone, and I think his new time, is completely unreachable.

But, I will try again later this week, and see if I can find another tenth.

And I will always make sure my ghost is available for viewing and setup. :)

Twinz
19-09-2018, 16:21
Hey, just checked your times, 1.01.6 in Silverstone National with the GT5??? Wow, good lap, will give it a try to catch you :)

Some of my records are just "low hanging fruit" but I think I put some effort into that one IIRC.

Stocky
19-09-2018, 16:23
It would be cool to have a Time Trial thread, for all the combinations, wouldn't it?

Would be a lot of threads tho, lol.

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 16:30
But I have spent countless of hours, this week alone, and I think his new time, is completely unreachable.


Oh well, it's completely countless how many times I have said the exact same thing myself for other people's times :). Until I eventually managed to catch them, or get closer to them, or at least realized what I am not doing as well as they do...



And I will always make sure my ghost is available for viewing and setup. :)

Unfortunately you can't make sure about that, when it happens, it's out of your control. As I said before, this was happening to me at some point always, but found the reason for that. But still, it happens again randomly from time to time and I have no clue why, maybe a sudden connectivity problem or similar. And it is very frustrating this happens also for myself, because I know other people will look at the missing ghost and think there's something fishy...so I am trying to beat my previous time again, so I do get a new ghost uploaded...

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 16:41
It would be cool to have a Time Trial thread, for all the combinations, wouldn't it?

Would be a lot of threads tho, lol.

Yeah, not for all combinations, but I also think it would be great having a thread about several different time trial combos each of us is currently trying, one trying to beat the other etc etc, it's a lot of fun and learning experience. We did start something like that in the offtopic subforum (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?64550-To-tune-or-not-to-tune-that-s-the-question&p=1534838&viewfull=1#post1534838), but I think it really deserves a sticky here in General Discussions, so it is easily accessible to all and it should be a lot of fun!

Stocky
19-09-2018, 17:54
I'd like to apologize to Bestone01 for my thinking he may be a hacker.

He friended me in Steam, we spoke, and he told me he isn't trying to prevent his ghost from showing, and his lap was just one of those lucky laps we all get sometimes.

I believe him, and apologized to him in Steam as well.

Well, there goes the rest of my life, trying to beat him again, lol.

TorTorden
19-09-2018, 18:11
Sounds like you two should race each other ;)

cpcdem
19-09-2018, 20:20
I'd like to apologize to Bestone01 for my thinking he may be a hacker.

He friended me in Steam, we spoke, and he told me he isn't trying to prevent his ghost from showing, and his lap was just one of those lucky laps we all get sometimes.

I believe him, and apologized to him in Steam as well.

Well, there goes the rest of my life, trying to beat him again, lol.

Happy ending! :)

So what was the story after all behind him doing his lap just two minutes after yours? Completely coincidental? Looking for at least some little conspiracy here :)

Stocky
19-09-2018, 21:32
Happy ending! :)

So what was the story after all behind him doing his lap just two minutes after yours? Completely coincidental? Looking for at least some little conspiracy here :)

Either he was keeping an eye on his record, or it was a coincidence.

Going to try again later in week at the record. Can't have someone from France, hold the record for an American car, on the most the popular American track. :)

Have a season race with the Clio tonight at Silverstone National, so working on that TT at the moment.

blinkngone
19-09-2018, 23:43
Either he was keeping an eye on his record, or it was a coincidence.

Going to try again later in week at the record. Can't have someone from France, hold the record for an American car, on the most the popular American track. :)

Have a season race with the Clio tonight at Silverstone National, so working on that TT at the moment.

Hey Stocky, I used your setup, ran 2 laps was around 0.258 behind. Made a change and ran 2 more laps, I am happy with 3rd.;) It shouldn't take that many laps for you to get your record back. Check out the change I made and you could pick up a little as well.
260180
EDIT Oh and for what it is worth the TT Leaderboard on the WMD Portal says I will have to wait 49 minutes to get my time posted.

Stocky
20-09-2018, 11:54
Thanks, I will test out your setup changes today or tomorrow.

Spent the rest of yesterday working on time trial for the Clio @ Silverstone National. For such an easy track, the WR wasn't so easy.

Voodoochild
20-09-2018, 12:45
Duplicates are possible i had a duplicate time VS cpcdem in a touring car... It put My duplicate time ahead of his even though times were identical as far as what i saw on screen... I dunno if there are other hidden #'s that dont show.

Before Season 10 of AOR GT3 league all partecipants had to record a Time Trial in Sakitto. I had the exact same lap time as other 2 drivers, all with different cars (Lambo, Audi and Porsche) and incidentally all 3 of us use to hang around in the same discord every evening.

blinkngone
20-09-2018, 14:47
Thanks, I will test out your setup changes today or tomorrow.

Spent the rest of yesterday working on time trial for the Clio @ Silverstone National. For such an easy track, the WR wasn't so easy.

Hey Stocky, congrats on your WR!:cool: That new guy, piquet has been tearing up Silverstone National recently so taking him out is an achievement.

Stocky
21-09-2018, 14:06
Hey Stocky, congrats on your WR!:cool: That new guy, piquet has been tearing up Silverstone National recently so taking him out is an achievement.

Thanks. I did try your set up at Daytona, and found it about the same as mine, but it was a bit more comfortable.

I did manage to improve my time with my set up tho, by .002, lol.

Hey Bestone01, your record is safe for a while. I give up for now.

Chimildo
21-09-2018, 17:51
There is a nice little TT app called project cars stoopid challenges, they have a weekly TT the app picks up stuff from project cars, it’s a nice little competition. It’s stock setup though to try and make it even, give it a check

Bestone01
22-09-2018, 01:30
Thanks. I did try your set up at Daytona, and found it about the same as mine, but it was a bit more comfortable.

I did manage to improve my time with my set up tho, by .002, lol.

Hey Bestone01, your record is safe for a while. I give up for now.



Hello everyone and sorry for my english, I'm french.....:D
I use google traduction :

In english :
Hello everybody. I am Bestone01, and I did not think that my results on nascar circuit would be the subject of a discussion on a forum ... I am very honored ... I introduce myself: I am not very young ( 1 half century), fan of Nascar for 35 years and fan of video games since the 70's. I play nascar simulations since the mid-80s on cpc 6128, atari 520, PC, PS3, etc.
As for my last record and the controversy here, I'd like to go back to what really happened. I had the record since June. In August, I went on vacation and, on my return, I saw Stocky who had passed me. I had to take back my record. Then I do not understand what happens, I do a first test at 46.280, not enough, I change my settings, and there I am at 314km / h on the starting line in the 2nd lap (usually 311/312) at the first corner I see the ghost of Stocky in my rearview mirror 1 or 2 lengths behind ... I just have to manage my lead and there my bingo .... 46.104 the new record. When I come out of my turn, I see that Stocky again broke his record at 46.201 2 minutes before mine, and I thought he was not going to like it at all ... we were running at the same time. In addition I see that my ghost is disabled, my friends can not download it, it's annoying this problem.
That's all. I think I was very lucky and it will be very difficult for me to do better.
If you want to come have fun with us, come on the test "Les Foldingos" online, you will meet me with my family on Friday evening and Saturday evening from 22:30 Paris time (in France). soon ... Stocky I count on you to join me, but beware, we were used to gt6 (ps3), and it turns out that it's a little "dirty" when we're in the first places ...


In French :
Bonjour tout le monde. Je suis Bestone01, et je ne pensais pas que mes résultats sur un circuit de nascar ferait l'objet d'une discussion sur un forum ... J'en suis très honoré ... Je me présente: Je ne suis pas très jeune (1 demi siècle), fan de Nascar depuis 35 ans et fan de jeux vidéo depuis les années 70. Je joue des simulations nascar depuis le milieu des années 80 sur cpc 6128, atari 520, PC, PS3, etc.
En ce qui concerne mon dernier record et la controverse ici, j'aimerais revenir sur ce qui s'est réellement passé. J'ai eu le record depuis le mois de juin. En août, je suis parti en vacances et, à mon retour, j'ai vu Stocky qui m'avait dépassé. Je devais reprendre mon record. Ensuite je ne comprends pas ce qui se passe, je fais un premier test à 46.280, pas assez, je change mes réglages, et là je suis à 314km/h sur la ligne de départ au 2ème tour (d'habitude 311/312), au premier virage je vois le fantôme de Stocky dans mon rétroviseur à 1 ou 2 longueurs derrière ... Je dois juste gérer mon avance et là bingo .... 46.104 le nouveau record. Quand je sors de mon tour, je vois que Stocky a de nouveau battu son record à 46.201 2 minutes avant le mien, et je me suis dit qu'il n'allait pas aimer du tout ... nous courions en même temps. En plus je vois que mon fantôme est désactivé, mes amis ne peuvent pas le télécharger, c'est ennuyeux ce problème.
C'est tout. Je pense que j'ai eu beaucoup de chance et que ce sera très difficile pour moi de faire mieux.
Si vous voulez venir vous amuser avec nous, venez sur l'épreuve en ligne "Les Foldingos", vous me retrouverez avec ma famille les vendredi soir et les samedi soir à partir de 22h30 heure de Paris (en France) .... à bientôt ... Stocky je compte sur vous pour me rejoindre, mais attention, on était habitué à gt6 (ps3), et il se trouve que c'est un peu "dirty" nous sommes aux premières places ...

cpcdem
22-09-2018, 04:04
Hi and congrats for the WR! And finally, someone who was using the cpc 6128, great to hear!!!
Yes, the problem with the ghosts not uploading is very annoying for all when it happens. Maybe you can complete a lap with the same car and same setup in another track, so Stocky and anybody else who is interested can get the setup from there?
Sorry, I don't speak French, but maybe you can translate this, too.

blinkngone
22-09-2018, 10:25
Hi and congrats for the WR! And finally, someone who was using the cpc 6128, great to hear!!!
Yes, the problem with the ghosts not uploading is very annoying for all when it happens. Maybe you can complete a lap with the same car and same setup in another track, so Stocky and anybody else who is interested can get the setup from there?
Sorry, I don't speak French, but maybe you can translate this, too.

Yeah maybe it would help but probably not so much. Personally I can't use others setups with this car at this track without changing them. If I run Stocky's setup I am over 2 tenths slower, if I use Blackwolf's who is 4th I am 5 tenths off. It's probably the same for Stocky when he tried to use mine, he was probably a couple of tenths slower than his own. It's exasperating trying to improve your time, you can bang out 20 laps at the identical time and no more. I trust Bestone01 is probably correct in that he will probably not be able to improve his WR, at least not by much. Today I can't get any closer to my PB than 0.020, why I don't know, the TT gods are not with me. Kudos to Bestone01, an awesome lap!

Stewy32
22-09-2018, 10:28
Congrats on your WR!

Stocky
22-09-2018, 15:06
Hey Bestone01, I'm glad you posted here. I'd love to join you for some races, but most of my time is dedicated to my league schedule. Maybe at some point.

By the way Bestone01, I am 58 years old. Played Nascar Papyrus Online in the mid 90's, dialing into Boston via a 2400 baud modem, and played multiplayer beta online for hours. Phone bills were out of this world, $600-$800 per month, and that was a lot of money 20 years ago. Almost led to my divorce, earlier than it happened anyway, lol.

Hey Blinkngone, you're exactly right about the setups. I tried yours and was a bit slower. I thought I was done trying at Daytona, but now I want to go load other peoples setups incl blackwolf's, test your theory and try again.

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." Quote from The Godfather