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jesse buckingham
30-09-2018, 06:34
I am not sure it is in the essence of competition to have Steering Assistance allowed in Time Trials. It is basically like having a robot helping you steer in case you get it wrong.:yes:
It is a sport, kinda, and last time I checked other sports didn't allow robots to assist humans to achieve victory.

Stewy32
30-09-2018, 06:41
None of the quickest times are with steering assists.Anyone quick enough to set WRs has it off.

jesse buckingham
30-09-2018, 07:18
None of the quickest times are with steering assists.Anyone quick enough to set WRs has it off.

The No.1 TT spot in Brands Hatch GP Porsche 911 GT3 R most certainly has Steering Assistance ON.

Stewy32
30-09-2018, 09:03
Not quite. I have been dueling with a someone for a No.1 spot in TT and they most certainly have Steering Assistance ON.
Brands Hatch GP Porsche 911 GT3 R.

How can you prove that.If you get the car out of shape, no amount of steering assists is going to make it a WR lap for a GT3 car on a GT3 track.

jesse buckingham
30-09-2018, 09:29
Yeah but that's exactly what steering assistance does it stops the car getting out of shape. Not exactly a level playing field. Realistic driving aids:yes: Unrealistic driving aids:no:.
There is this icon + on the PC2 leaderboard in the assists column if you hover the mouse over it it shows what assists each driver is using.

cluck
30-09-2018, 09:55
I am not sure it is in the essence of competition to have Steering Assistance allowed in Time Trials. It is basically like having a robot helping you steer in case you get it wrong.:yes:
It is a sport, kinda, and last time I checked other sports didn't allow robots to assist humans to achieve victory.If people want, or need, to use steering assistance to do a lap comfortably, let them :yes:
If people want to run with unrealistic driving assists - and that includes turning off assists the real car has, let them :yes:
If people want to create complete unrealistic car setups, let them :yes:
If people want to drive the entire lap in reverse gear, just for giggles, let them :yes:

Don't forget, time-trial is in itself a wholly unrealistic proposition in the first place. Wind is at such a low speed that it is negligible, the air and track temp is constant, there is no time of day advancement, the weather doesn't change, the track has a specific amount of traction every single time you go into the session, fuel use is turned off and fixed at 5L, you get an unlimited number of attempts with no actual penalty for screwing up and so on.

If somebody has used steering assistance to set the current fastest lap, prove they're not the fastest driver by going out there and setting a faster time without that assistance :)

EDIT : For what it's worth, after 5 laps I managed a 1m23 flat on a default setup. There's at least a couple of tenths to come off that time, not least with some more laps and familiarity with the car under my belt (I can't remember the last time I drove this car, probably back in December or January, when I drove all the cars at Bathurst)

blinkngone
30-09-2018, 10:01
Yeah but that's exactly what steering assistance does it stops the car getting out of shape. Not exactly a level playing field. Realistic driving aids:yes: Unrealistic driving aids:no:.
There is this icon + on the PC2 leaderboard in the assists column if you hover the mouse over it it shows what assists each driver is using.

Relax, you are obsessing about a new guy's run who has only been playing since late July. It is his only WR of the 6 runs he has made.:)

Stewy32
30-09-2018, 10:16
Yeah but that's exactly what steering assistance does it stops the car getting out of shape. Not exactly a level playing field. Realistic driving aids:yes: Unrealistic driving aids:no:.
There is this icon + on the PC2 leaderboard in the assists column if you hover the mouse over it it shows what assists each driver is using.

Yeah but if steering assists is required to stop the car going out of shape you already will be on a slightly slower lap than you could have been.

SPC4S4
30-09-2018, 14:41
DOH! I have set some TT WRs the last few days and forgotten that I had turned steering assist on a few days ago to see what it was about. I forgot to turn it off and now after setting some WR with it, feel I need to go back and requalify my WRs WITHOUT the steering assist! In the overall scheme of things, it doesn't matter but there it exists as a splinter in my mind that I cheated myself...Oh well...

cpcdem
30-09-2018, 15:36
Personally I think this assist (and also brake assist) goes a bit too far and it should not be allowed in time trial, same as it is not allowed to use in time trial for example traction control assist, if the car doesn't have it in real life. Or ABS, or stability control, those are already not allowed in TT, unless the real car has them. In the same sense steering assist shouldn't be allowed either, IMHO.

But anyway, I don't think many people use steering assist anyway. If you check http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1740968730&vehicle=0, hover the mouse over the last item of the "Assists" column, a tooltip will appear with the assists used for that lap. Steering assist state is displayed first. You can see the exact same info also in https://pcars.13ms.de/#/times/1740968730

satco1066
01-10-2018, 00:17
dont forget, that some WR hunters are not able to participate any clean race.
I know a guy who tries hundred times off weird restarts for just this only one best lap.
The other 99 tries he did'nt finish the lap because he crashed ( don't count my numbers Shadow ;) , could have been 129 tries )
He came to our group and boasted with his TT records, but was not able to finish one out of ten races w/o crashing everything.

yep. well. true. I don't like TT ;)

cpcdem
01-10-2018, 01:10
Agreed, but there are also plenty TT WR hunters who can race pretty cleanly, too :)

KANETAKER
02-10-2018, 16:23
Don't forget, time-trial is in itself a wholly unrealistic proposition in the first place. Wind is at such a low speed that it is negligible, the air and track temp is constant, there is no time of day advancement, the weather doesn't change, the track has a specific amount of traction every single time you go into the session, fuel use is turned off and fixed at 5L, you get an unlimited number of attempts with no actual penalty for screwing up and so on.


The latter is not entirely true, or at least in the version of PC (Steam), because both the damage and mechanical failures are present, which in some tracks and with certain cars makes it impossible to have an unlimited number of attempts without being forced to restart the session, especially when using extreme setups that in addition to overheating the brakes also cause the engine blown up in less than 2 laps or even in a single lap (as in the case of Porsche 917/30 at LeMans Classic).

Even so I do not understand how some players despite these setbacks manage to record turns as fast as if they were not affected by the aforementioned factors, or using setups that in theory should make them rather slower in top speed but the opposite happens...

cluck
02-10-2018, 16:30
The latter is not entirely true, or at least in the version of PC (Steam), because both the damage and mechanical failures are present, which in some tracks and with certain cars makes it impossible to have an unlimited number of attempts without being forced to restart the session, especially when using extreme setups that in addition to overheating the brakes also cause the engine blown up in less than 2 laps or even in a single lap (as in the case of Porsche 917/30 at LeMans Classic).

Even so I do not understand how some players despite these setbacks manage to record turns as fast as if they were not affected by the aforementioned factors, or using setups that in theory should make them rather slower in top speed but the opposite happens...I'm comparing the game to real life in this comment, in reply to the OP's assertion that "an invisible steering helper" wouldn't happen in real life. In reality, a mistake can result in life-changing injuries to the driver or very simply immense cost. A game allows you to attack a track in a wholly unrealistic manner, something no real-life driver would ever attempt.

cpcdem
02-10-2018, 16:43
The latter is not entirely true, or at least in the version of PC (Steam), because both the damage and mechanical failures are present, which in some tracks and with certain cars makes it impossible to have an unlimited number of attempts without being forced to restart the session, especially when using extreme setups that in addition to overheating the brakes also cause the engine blown up in less than 2 laps or even in a single lap (as in the case of Porsche 917/30 at LeMans Classic).


Exactly, because you can simply easily restart every time when you have damage, or overheating, or bad tires etc, you do get unlimited number of attempts...



Even so I do not understand how some players despite these setbacks manage to record turns as fast as if they were not affected by the aforementioned factors, or using setups that in theory should make them rather slower in top speed but the opposite happens...

Those "setbacks" are not really setbacks...About the setups, can you post an example?

KANETAKER
04-10-2018, 03:09
Those "setbacks" are not really setbacks...About the setups, can you post an example?
I was going to give as an example what happens to me in the SPA circuit using the Ligier LMP2, where although I tried the same setting of Top # 1 modifying the setup to try to gain some more top speed after Eau Rouge, I still see that the rival ghost distances himself even if it is only a few tenths, as if he had more acceleration and power than me. And it is not problems with the throttle pedal as it continues to register a 100% pressure. In addition to having tried several trajectories at the time of taking the Eau Rouge with fully throttle.

Although later I noticed a detail: The DATE ... The first 3 marked their times in April, while I did it in September, just days after the last Update.

260916

Maybe it would be a good idea to restart the leaderboard, mainly because a good amount of setups are no longer useful or good for can be competitive at online races, especially in certain cars that have been nerfed as the case of Nissan GTP ZX-Turbo and the two Dallara Oval cars (Chevrolet and Honda).

Not all casual players are good or skilled to create our own setups, much less have time available, so in a way it is helpful to copy a good setup and use it as a basis to adapt to the style of driving and controls that each player has.

Stewy32
04-10-2018, 18:16
dont forget, that some WR hunters are not able to participate any clean race.
I know a guy who tries hundred times off weird restarts for just this only one best lap.
The other 99 tries he did'nt finish the lap because he crashed ( don't count my numbers Shadow ;) , could have been 129 tries )
He came to our group and boasted with his TT records, but was not able to finish one out of ten races w/o crashing everything.

yep. well. true. I don't like TT ;)

Yeah.TT specialists can be very arrogant.

KANETAKER
05-10-2018, 17:07
Yeah.TT specialists can be very arrogant.

Only a few players in the top 10 have managed to reflect the same stratospheric performance they have in TT in online races. The rest usually have that problem that you indicate, that they are only quick in a single round, but in long races they are not consistent. Apart there is another group of pilots who are possibly faster than the top 10 in TT but have not wanted to participate in that game mode, largely because of that feature that any other player can copy your setup, although certain TT setups are not useful under certain conditions (weather, temperature, aids, mechanical failures, tire wear, etc.)

cluck
05-10-2018, 17:32
Yeah.TT specialists can be very arrogant.Many people, who specialise in a specific area, can be arrogant but fortunately not everybody is like that :). It's also pretty obvious that somebody specialising in driving a particular mode is going to struggle in another. Some people like the challenge of just besting themselves, going after that one perfect lap, the one they know they can never improve upon. It's a near endless task of course as, just when you think you've nailed it, you do another lap and find some extra time somewhere. Then somebody else comes along and goes faster, forcing you to push harder and be even better.

TT is just as much a craft and skill as racing, it's just a different one :)