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balderz002
02-11-2018, 08:50
Hey folks,

Looking for some help here. Not taken the Group A cars out for a while, but tried a quick race the other day. Used to have the BMW as my go to car. But after trying the BMW and the Merc, they have become a hella' lot more rear happy and oversteery to what I remember them to be.

I have gone into the race engineer, but he don't give me much help, especially when the rear wing is maxed out already.

So is there anything I can concentrate on to make it a bit more stable, especially when exiting corners, as I can only be competitive at Sugo in Group A (75% difficulty) in the Audi. I even tried the Nissan at Oschersleben and that was tail happy like anyones business too!

blinkngone
02-11-2018, 10:35
Did you check out the Audi setup at Sugo already? The patch 6.0 run? Vk607's Nissan at Oschersleben is also a patch 6.0 run.

EDIT Ok, just checked out the Audi WR setup at Sugo, he is running a spool.

hkraft300
02-11-2018, 13:12
I'm about to jump on. I'll do some laps in the 190 I'm more familiar with it. I didn't find the Merc that loose and the GTR is a beast.

hkraft300
02-11-2018, 14:37
http://i.imgur.com/J948FCm.jpg

Did a few laps of it at imola. You're right it's pretty loose at the back. Hadn't driven these a while. This Merc is super fun.

Edit: got it.

blinkngone
02-11-2018, 14:56
Hey, I only run the Tri-Oval but as far as I can tell most of the cars have improved through the various patches in regard to tires and top speed. The exceptions are the Mercedes which for some reason is slower by 0.100 from the patch 3/4 runs. I was only able to get within 0.018 of the patch 3.0 WR with the RS500 because of Engine damage, which starts on the back straight of the out lap, and the engine blows up just past start/finish on lap 2 but I am pretty sure the WR is reachable. At Monza half the Group A cars have new WRs with the 7.0 patch so nothing suddenly wrong with the cars.

balderz002
02-11-2018, 15:02
At Monza half the Group A cars have new WRs with the 7.0 patch so nothing suddenly wrong with the cars.

I will deffo never be anywhere near the WR's in these cars.

But for some reason they all feel a lot looser than they used to. I was struggling to not spin out with the Merc and BMW in most corners last time I took them out. I've never bothered with the Sierra as its too peaky for me. So I was just after tips on how to set them up to dial out that rear end looseness. I am using the default stable setting as a starting point.

blinkngone
02-11-2018, 15:18
I will deffo never be anywhere near the WR's in these cars.

But for some reason they all feel a lot looser than they used to. I was struggling to not spin out with the Merc and BMW in most corners last time I took them out. I've never bothered with the Sierra as its too peaky for me. So I was just after tips on how to set them up to dial out that rear end looseness. I am using the default stable setting as a starting point.

Well, the Stable setup for the Merc comes with a higher power ramp angle so you can't increase this much. Also reduce the clutches down to 2 and lower the preload. See hkraft is running 60 preload/6 clutches and 65 power ramp. With the Mercedes the Stable Power ramp is at 85 so you are almost maxed out there already and going to 90 shuts this off. You can go to negative values on preload. Also rear camber can be increased from Default Stable, see hkraft increased his to 3.0 and you can go as high as -4.0. Nevermind he was using Loose -3.0 camber so on stable you can try to reduce this from Stable -2.4. Also Loose rear ARB is 40 and Stable rear ARB is at 15 so you can go to 0. The rear toe is at 0.6 and I have seen higher values here.

Ok how about this, rear ARB to 0, rear toe to 0.8, LSD- clutches to 2, preload to -20 and leave the power ramp at 85?

Also I can't see where hkraft has his weight bias set but from Stable you can move more weight to the rear.

balderz002
02-11-2018, 16:07
Ok how about this, rear ARB to 0, rear toe to 0.8, LSD- clutches to 2, preload to -20 and leave the power ramp at 85?



Thank you my good man, I will try this when next on, as the Merc in the red / white wheels AF Delta paint job is one of my fave fictional ingame liveries.

blinkngone
02-11-2018, 16:12
Thank you my good man, I will try this when next on, as the Merc in the red / white wheels AF Delta paint job is one of my fave fictional ingame liveries.

Ok, as you know we are just trying to get the car setup for how you like to drive. I had problems in the past as well because I like to go to full throttle ASAP and unfortunately I ran into the physics refusing to obey my inputs.:o

Oh and could you please confirm your platform and input device? Hkraft is on PS4 and using a G29(or maybe G27 I forget:o) and knowing your platform and input will help those trying to give you direction.

2010 Synergy Camaro
02-11-2018, 16:30
In career mode I used the Merc in the US Championship and found it a battle to compete and keep up. In the Euro Championship I used the Audi and had a much easier time of it. So, I feel the Audi is the best Group A car.

blinkngone
02-11-2018, 16:41
In career mode I used the Merc in the US Championship and found it a battle to compete and keep up. In the Euro Championship I used the Audi and had a much easier time of it. So, I feel the Audi is the best Group A car.

Yeah but he likes the Mercedes and he can possibly adjust the A.I. to be somewhat competitive. Do you remember the A.I. settings you were using with the Mercedes? If we can help him get the Merc setup so he's not always spinning out it might allow him to at least have some fun and who knows he might eventually come to the same conclusion as yours anyway.:)

balderz002
02-11-2018, 16:44
Oh and could you please confirm your platform and input device? Hkraft is on PS4 and using a G29(or maybe G27 I forget:o) and knowing your platform and input will help those trying to give you direction.

PC user running a TX458.

I used the Audi in a quick race at Sugo, just 15 laps. I managed to stay in P1 for the race, but the AI were up my arse the whole time. I just don't want to default to best car in class every time.

blinkngone
02-11-2018, 16:53
PC user running a TX458.

I used the Audi in a quick race at Sugo, just 15 laps. I managed to stay in P1 for the race, but the AI were up my arse the whole time. I just don't want to default to best car in class every time.

Ok so that's settled.:D Merc it is.:D It looks like at Monza the Merc is in there with the exception of the RS500(but I don't think the RS would last in a race at it's highest output settings there without a blown engine) and I don't know how the Nissan would hold up either. What track are going to be running?

I guess you've checked already but the Merc looks ok at Hockenheim as well.

Ok, I tested the settings I gave you at the Silverstone National and Sugo tracks and couldn't get the car to spin out on corner exit but it may just be me. In my opinion the Default brake setup is horrible.

If you try the settings and find you don't have the spinning issue try going to 65 on the power ramp.

2010 Synergy Camaro
02-11-2018, 17:52
Yeah but he likes the Mercedes and he can possibly adjust the A.I. to be somewhat competitive. Do you remember the A.I. settings you were using with the Mercedes? If we can help him get the Merc setup so he's not always spinning out it might allow him to at least have some fun and who knows he might eventually come to the same conclusion as yours anyway.:)


It was right after patch 7 that I did the career Group A races. I think SMS tinkered with Group A with this update because the AI are pretty good. I’m thinking AI skill 45/40 is what I used to be competitive with the AI. That is lower than the 55/50 default but I needed to lower it because I got wiped out by the AI with the Mercedes. I set TC to 14, Front - B 6950, R 10000, FB 4100, FR 4200, TB 530 & TR 695. Rear - B 6500, R 10600, FB 4350, FR 4250, TB 540 & TR 770. Differentials 6 clutches, P 80, C 20 & Pre 60. Ride Height 53/73.

blinkngone
02-11-2018, 19:00
It was right after patch 7 that I did the career Group A races. I think SMS tinkered with Group A with this update because the AI are pretty good. I’m thinking AI skill 45/40 is what I used to be competitive with the AI. That is lower than the 55/50 default but I needed to lower it because I got wiped out by the AI with the Mercedes. I set TC to 14, Front - B 6950, R 10000, FB 4100, FR 4200, TB 530 & TR 695. Rear - B 6500, R 10600, FB 4350, FR 4250, TB 540 & TR 770. Differentials 6 clutches, P 80, C 20 & Pre 60. Ride Height 53/73.

Thanks. Just an FYI as far as I know the Merc doesn't have TC. 1991 Mercedes 190E Evo 2 DTM: ABS, no TC, no SC.

hkraft300
02-11-2018, 21:02
That setup I posted is pretty loose at the back. Around imola you can just dorifto your way around, but it's on demand and not by surprise.
Be smooth with the throttle. I tried different amounts of locking at 6 clutches and I don't think it's the diff: they just power oversteer in low gears if you're snappy with the throttle. Your other option is to run with TC but it's really fun without it. It will also trail brake nicely. I'll try a different tune for the Merc see if I can get it more stable, later tonight.

I also did a few laps of the M3 on stable and loose but that car was solid, stable and nothing like the drift Merc.

blinkngone
02-11-2018, 21:21
That setup I posted is pretty loose at the back. Around imola you can just dorifto your way around, but it's on demand and not by surprise.
Be smooth with the throttle. I tried different amounts of locking at 6 clutches and I don't think it's the diff: they just power oversteer in low gears if you're snappy with the throttle. Your other option is to run with TC but it's really fun without it. It will also trail brake nicely. I'll try a different tune for the Merc see if I can get it more stable, later tonight.

I also did a few laps of the M3 on stable and loose but that car was solid, stable and nothing like the drift Merc.

Ok thanks. Hey, the only list I have shows the Merc without TC, does this mean he can still use it?

hkraft300
02-11-2018, 23:02
Sure you can use all assists on all cars.
If you choose real assist the car won't have it. I don't think the 190 DTM race car had any assists.

hkraft300
02-11-2018, 23:06
.. .

But for some reason they all feel a lot looser than they used to.

Im noticing this on all cars. I used to find a comfortable balance with front end (wheel rate to be precise) ~10% stiffer than rear. Now I'm having to target closer to +20% and the rear tires still are hotter than front.

blinkngone
03-11-2018, 00:38
Im noticing this on all cars. I used to find a comfortable balance with front end (wheel rate to be precise) ~10% stiffer than rear. Now I'm having to target closer to +20% and the rear tires still are hotter than front.

Well I have read some say that some of the cars were understeering. I know you don't run TT but we have a new guy running GT3 and here is what he has been doing to the front Dampers and it looks like what I think you are describing with the slow front bump. He is also way up on the rear slow bump though.
AMG GT3@Monza, Default.
261694
His setup.
261695
Default springs.
261696
His springs.
261697

hkraft300
03-11-2018, 02:02
I was talking about springs (wheel rate) not dampers. I tend to go soft slow bump (~60%) and rear slow bump ~80% on GT cars. The reverse works too as long as the dumping average is high enough to avoid too much oscillation. I think the theory is stiff slow bump tends to work the tires harder or at least gives better response to inputs. It's something I might test soon.
300-180 springs on the amg will might have me sliding a bit more than I'd like, but it can always be compensated for with other tools eg diff and maybe alignment and aero.