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Spangenb
24-12-2018, 19:25
I've been sitting on the sidelines for years waiting for driving sim and VR technology to catch up to my expectations. I'm looking for an immersive driving experience so I can drive all my dream cars virtually and stop spending silly money on road cars that are just a big money pit. I'm not settled on the hardware yet, but Project Cars 2 seems like the game I want and the time seems right now to jump in! I know cars and I know tech, but I'm not a gamer and I don't know gaming hardware, software, or terminology. I have a clean slate here. I am building from scratch. No hardware or software to reuse. I’ve done plenty of Gran Turismo on PlayStation with a “good” Logitech wheel/pedals (I even did a load cell conversion on the brake pedal) and a DIY cockpit, but I'm ready for something next level.

So I have a long list of questions. Basically I am building a shopping list.


PC or console?
If PC, Intel or AMD?
Oculus Rift? HTC? Pimax?
CPU?
GPU?
Wheel/pedal/shifter choices?
DIY cockpit or buy one?
Steam? I am totally unfamiliar with Steam.
Buttkicker?
I'm fine with building a PC, but is it better to buy a proven setup?


I'd say my budget is in the "serious" range. Keep in mind I'm not really interested in the gaming aspect here (though my kids will be). I'm just looking for the most realistic and immersive virtual driving experience short of a commercial sim rig.

Hope everyone is having a great holiday!

John Hargreaves
24-12-2018, 19:37
Welcome mate you are in the right place. Everything you need is in this forum, but it will take some time to figure it all out. You have some big questions there and you won't find instant answers but it will be a lot of fun getting set up.
My system in my signature below runs PC2 Just fine and would give you a starting point for a PC spec. I've also got a PS4 pro, and I'd honestly say it's worth having both eventually. Enjoy the journey

morpwr
24-12-2018, 19:41
I've been sitting on the sidelines for years waiting for driving sim and VR technology to catch up to my expectations. I'm looking for an immersive driving experience so I can drive all my dream cars virtually and stop spending silly money on road cars that are just a big money pit. I'm not settled on the hardware yet, but Project Cars 2 seems like the game I want and the time seems right now to jump in! I know cars and I know tech, but I'm not a gamer and I don't know gaming hardware, software, or terminology. I have a clean slate here. I am building from scratch. No hardware or software to reuse. I’ve done plenty of Gran Turismo on PlayStation with a “good” Logitech wheel/pedals (I even did a load cell conversion on the brake pedal) and a DIY cockpit, but I'm ready for something next level.

So I have a long list of questions. Basically I am building a shopping list.


PC or console?
If PC, Intel or AMD?
Oculus Rift? HTC? Pimax?
CPU?
GPU?
Wheel/pedal/shifter choices?
DIY cockpit or buy one?
Steam? I am totally unfamiliar with Steam.
Buttkicker?
I'm fine with building a PC, but is it better to buy a proven setup?


I'd say my budget is in the "serious" range. Keep in mind I'm not really interested in the gaming aspect here (though my kids will be). I'm just looking for the most realistic and immersive virtual driving experience short of a commercial sim rig.

Hope everyone is having a great holiday!



What is serious range for budget? That could be completely different from one person too another. But if youre talking 5000 dollar range you could get some really nice equipment and do it once instead of upgrading over and over like most of us have.

Spangenb
24-12-2018, 19:59
What is serious range for budget? That could be completely different from one person too another. But if youre talking 5000 dollar range you could get some really nice equipment and do it once instead of upgrading over and over like most of us have.

Yeah I knew that would come up quick lol. I'd say $5K USD is an excellent guess on what I'm willing to spend. Funny how that sounds like a lot of money, but so much less than any of the nice road cars I've had ... that I never actually get to wring out on a daily basis. It's all relative!

bporion
24-12-2018, 20:00
you should check out DOFreality motion rigs very affordable and great reviews .263075

morpwr
24-12-2018, 20:30
Yeah I knew that would come up quick lol. I'd say $5K USD is an excellent guess on what I'm willing to spend. Funny how that sounds like a lot of money, but so much less than any of the nice road cars I've had ... that I never actually get to wring out on a daily basis. It's all relative!

I own a shop and build a lot of cars so I know what you mean. 5 grand doesn't go far. If that's the range youre looking id go for a simlab 80/20 rig,a pc with at least a gtx1080ti gpu and 8700k cpu, definitely DD(direct drive) wheel you have OSW,Accuforce and now Fanatec if they ever come out, pedals you have options too with Fanatec, Heusinkvelds that I have and really like as they feel very realistic, and other high end options, the rift works well but the new Samsung plus is supposed to be really good, if there is a electronics store near you so you can actually try them that would help, that should put you into a really nice setup. Youll probably want to add simvibe and some buttkickers in there also.The DD wheels use real car steering wheels and quick releases so its about as real as youre going to get. If you ever get really crazy the 80/20 rig is strong enough to add motion too.

morpwr
24-12-2018, 20:33
you should check out DOFreality motion rigs very affordable and great reviews .263075

I looked at those but I just don't see how it couldn't have a ton of flex in it with the pedals and wheels we run. I know my gt omega was way beefier then that and still had a lot of flex.

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 00:51
I looked at those but I just don't see how it couldn't have a ton of flex in it with the pedals and wheels we run. I know my gt omega was way beefier then that and still had a lot of flex.

Motion would add to the realism definitely. In all the sim driving I've done to date, the lack of G forces is the biggest drawback. I haven't done any VR driving yet, but I was hoping the immersion of VR would fool the brain into feeling some G forces that aren't really there. Has anyone experienced that? Unless somebody can shed more light, I am assuming a motion rig is out of my budget.

I agree the DOFreality rig looks flimsy. Wrestling a real car with sticky race tires around a track is a workout! I'd expect those kind of forces to make a pretzel out of a flimsy frame. Hell I've been bruised and even drawn blood from being tossed around in a car on track ... and that's in a proper 5-point harness :D

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 00:59
I own a shop and build a lot of cars so I know what you mean. 5 grand doesn't go far. If that's the range youre looking id go for a simlab 80/20 rig,a pc with at least a gtx1080ti gpu and 8700k cpu, definitely DD(direct drive) wheel you have OSW,Accuforce and now Fanatec if they ever come out, pedals you have options too with Fanatec, Heusinkvelds that I have and really like as they feel very realistic, and other high end options, the rift works well but the new Samsung plus is supposed to be really good, if there is a electronics store near you so you can actually try them that would help, that should put you into a really nice setup. Youll probably want to add simvibe and some buttkickers in there also.The DD wheels use real car steering wheels and quick releases so its about as real as youre going to get. If you ever get really crazy the 80/20 rig is strong enough to add motion too.

That's great info and pretty much what I was gathering from my Googling. What about building a PC versus buying something pre-built?

How much VR gear support is game-dependent? Does the game specifically have to support a specific VR brand and model? Or are they all using the same API interface to the game? I did play the Resident Evil VR game on PS4 and my main complaints were the low resolution and narrow field of view of the VR headset. I'd hope to get something better for this rig.

Regarding sound, who uses the earphones built into the headsets? Does the game do a good job of simulating surround sound with just 2 speakers? I have a pair of Bose QC15 noise cancelling headphones and wondered how those would work.

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 01:12
I forgot to mention that I have a buddy who does excellent steel fabrication for custom car builds, so improving a commercial rig or building one from scratch is a possibility. I assume starting with a pretty good commercial rig would dramatically reduce the engineering needed.

Is motion support baked into pCARS2 also? So there would be an upgrade path to add motion later?

bporion
25-12-2018, 01:16
Motion would add to the realism definitely. In all the sim driving I've done to date, the lack of G forces is the biggest drawback. I haven't done any VR driving yet, but I was hoping the immersion of VR would fool the brain into feeling some G forces that aren't really there. Has anyone experienced that? Unless somebody can shed more light, I am assuming a motion rig is out of my budget.

I agree the DOFreality rig looks flimsy. Wrestling a real car with sticky race tires around a track is a workout! I'd expect those kind of forces to make a pretzel out of a flimsy frame. Hell I've been bruised and even drawn blood from being tossed around in a car on track ... and that's in a proper 5-point harness :D


I looked at those but I just don't see how it couldn't have a ton of flex in it with the pedals and wheels we run. I know my gt omega was way beefier then that and still had a lot of flex.

as far as i know the flex is not bad at all i even saw guys put a triple screen mount on it and there are no complaints .

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 01:19
as far as i know the flex is not bad at all i even saw guys put a triple screen mount on it and there are no complaints .

Thanks I'll do some more reading up on their rigs.

hkraft300
25-12-2018, 02:21
PC or console?
If PC, Intel or AMD?
Oculus Rift? HTC? Pimax?
CPU?
GPU?
Wheel/pedal/shifter choices?
DIY cockpit or buy one?
Steam? I am totally unfamiliar with Steam.
Buttkicker?
I'm fine with building a PC, but is it better to buy a proven setup?




PC: consoles aren't capable of sim VR yet. Maybe the next generation of consoles will do it, and they'll probably do it pretty well. If you want the best VR right now, you'll probably want PC with the newest headset and a boss GPU or 2.

Logitech wheels are basic. Fanatec wheels are good bang for buck. You want DD for the best experience. Load cell pedal you already have will do you just fine, or you can step that up with new pedals. Fanatec does good load cell pedals and Heusinkvelds are pretty popular around these parts. There are many more.

Personally if you have the time and inclination, DIY your rig. If you have the money but not the ability, buy a rig. You can customise a DIY rig it to your liking. You won't be afraid to hack at it and improve it. A DIY rig can also be super cheap and the money you save on it can be spent on better equipment elsewhere.

Steam is like the PSN store you should already be familiar with.

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 12:55
PC: consoles aren't capable of sim VR yet. Maybe the next generation of consoles will do it, and they'll probably do it pretty well. If you want the best VR right now, you'll probably want PC with the newest headset and a boss GPU or 2.

Logitech wheels are basic. Fanatec wheels are good bang for buck. You want DD for the best experience. Load cell pedal you already have will do you just fine, or you can step that up with new pedals. Fanatec does good load cell pedals and Heusinkvelds are pretty popular around these parts. There are many more.

Personally if you have the time and inclination, DIY your rig. If you have the money but not the ability, buy a rig. You can customise a DIY rig it to your liking. You won't be afraid to hack at it and improve it. A DIY rig can also be super cheap and the money you save on it can be spent on better equipment elsewhere.

Steam is like the PSN store you should already be familiar with.

Thanks! Is it common to run multiple GPUs? That's a new one for me.

I do like the engineering aspect, so I'll consider a new DIY cockpit. I'll just have to work out all the mounting options for peripherals. Are there "universal" mounting plates for pedals, wheels, and shifters so you have some flexibility?

My current Logitech pedals are definitely too toy-like even with the load cell brake conversion. Everyone seems to like the Heusinkvelds, so I'm researching those.

Is Steam required, or just a personal preference? Does it change anything about the game?

I should post a pic of my current DIY cockpit just for reference. The kids and I built it almost 15 years ago from an old ping pong table, 2x4s, and the factory Recaro seat from my '86 Mustang GT :D. We've been waiting a long time for this technology to mature!

hkraft300
25-12-2018, 13:55
Thanks! Is it common to run multiple GPUs? That's a new one for me.

I do like the engineering aspect, so I'll consider a new DIY cockpit. I'll just have to work out all the mounting options for peripherals. Are there "universal" mounting plates for pedals, wheels, and shifters so you have some flexibility?

My current Logitech pedals are definitely too toy-like even with the load cell brake conversion. Everyone seems to like the Heusinkvelds, so I'm researching those.

Is Steam required, or just a personal preference? Does it change anything about the game?

I should post a pic of my current DIY cockpit just for reference. The kids and I built it almost 15 years ago from an old ping pong table, 2x4s, and the factory Recaro seat from my '86 Mustang GT :D. We've been waiting a long time for this technology to mature!

I can't speak about the GPU I have no experience. But I have built a DIY rig.

My logitech brakes are mounted on a piece of chip board that is then screwed on a steel frame. My wheel has clamps (G29) holding plates coming off the frame. I built it out of steel pipe at my work.

What I do recommend is having a rigid pedal mount. You don't want pedal flex when you're giving the brakes a bootful at the very last moment then trying not to swap ends as you turn in.
If I upgrade my wheel, I'll have to upgrade my wheel mount section of the frame but for a logitech it's fine.

Use whatever seat you find comfortable: personally I highly recommend comfortable oem seats. They're cheap and strong.

DaWorstPlaya
25-12-2018, 15:37
....

So I have a long list of questions. Basically I am building a shopping list.


PC or console? PC for sure
If PC, Intel or AMD? Doesn't matter, go AMD and get more cores. From my experience you need at least 5 cores + for Project Cars 2 and VR
Oculus Rift? HTC? Pimax? HTC Vive Pro for the higher resolution and better driver support. I would stay away from PiMax (unless you are constantly willing to troubleshoot from what I've heard)
CPU? Ryzen 7 2700x and don't look back, CPU is less important in PCars 2
GPU? RTX 2080 Ti, then you can turn ON most of the eye candy in VR and have the best experience.
Wheel/pedal/shifter choices? Fanatec Clubsport V2.5 wheelbase, Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals, Fanatec shifter V1.5, Fanatec handbrake. I know there are off brand direct drive wheels but trust me you don't want to spend time troubleshooting if you are not tech savy.
DIY cockpit or buy one? Easy buy one. On a budget get the GT Omega cockpit and add a butt kicker or if you have the extra money get the Next Level Racing cockpit and Next Level Racing V3 motion platform. Again better software support = less time troubleshooting.
Steam? I am totally unfamiliar with Steam. Yes buy the game on Steam, it's the most popular software delivery platform on the PC. Most other players are on Steam.
Buttkicker? If getting the GT Omega cockpit then yes. Adds a little more immersion. If getting the Next Level Racing motion platform V3 then no need for Butt Kicker.
I'm fine with building a PC, but is it better to buy a proven setup? It's probably cheaper to buy a prebuilt system with the same specs than to try to build it on your own. Just make sure you have the following specs. 5+core CPU, 16GB Ram, RTX2080Ti, 512GB SSD, Windows 10


.....

Hope everyone is having a great holiday!

Answers listed above.

Yea you can build your own or get custom direct drive wheels, hydraulic pedals, off brand motion rigs etc but I would recommend against that. The biggest problem you have with those setups is software and support. When you run into issues nobody will be able to give you any help because they aren't popular. Since you aren't very tech savy I would stay away from custom setups. Trust me it can be VERY frustrating to troubleshoot things when they don't work. So my advice, stick with the known and more popular brands.

ISRtv has great reviews on most of the stuff:
Next Level Racing Motion Rig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P--3QIBfioE

Fanatec Clubsport V2.5 wheelbase
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocC2G7IGtHQ

Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26GvN2fKMCI

I basically listed my dream setup, hope that helps you with your decision.
Happy holidays!

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 16:23
Answers listed above.

Yea you can build your own or get custom direct drive wheels, hydraulic pedals, off brand motion rigs etc but I would recommend against that. The biggest problem you have with those setups is software and support. When you run into issues nobody will be able to give you any help because they aren't popular. Since you aren't very tech savy I would stay away from custom setups. Trust me it can be VERY frustrating to troubleshoot things when they don't work. So my advice, stick with the known and more popular brands.

ISRtv has great reviews on most of the stuff:
Next Level Racing Motion Rig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P--3QIBfioE

Fanatec Clubsport V2.5 wheelbase
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocC2G7IGtHQ

Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26GvN2fKMCI

I basically listed my dream setup, hope that helps you with your decision.
Happy holidays!

Excellent info thanks! I'm very tech savvy, just not game tech savvy :). I'm an IT infrastructure engineer for a living, but I don't get to touch the end user hardware in my job. I can build you a kick ass server farm or enterprise network, but high end GPU hardware and VR are pretty much Greek to me lol. I do totally agree about getting mainstream hardware and software though. The community support is hugely important with this kind of stuff.

To motion or not to motion. I think that's the biggest question at the moment. Still doing that research.

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 16:38
as far as i know the flex is not bad at all i even saw guys put a triple screen mount on it and there are no complaints .


I just finished watching an extensive review of the 3DOF setup and I agree now that it seems quite rigid. It sounds like maybe the only weakness is fore/aft rigidity of the steering wheel mount. I could fix that.

A Reddit discussion delved into the basic physics involved. I agree with some of those posters that having the pivot point below the seat is "wrong". It would be superior to have the center of rotation above your head. I wonder how feasible it would be to buy one of these rigs and re-engineer it for suspending the seat from the motion platform :cool:. I think the biggest issue might be that there would be increased load on the motors because they are further from the center of gravity.

bporion
25-12-2018, 16:59
the thing about the next level motion rig is that its a seat shaker the pedals and wheel do not move whit the seat .

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 17:06
the thing about the next level motion rig is that its a seat shaker the pedals and wheel do not move whit the seat .

Ehh yeah that would be no good I think.

bporion
25-12-2018, 17:15
Ehh yeah that would be no good I think.

some people dont mind but for me its a deal breaker . thats why i will get the DOFreality rig as soon as i can and you cant beat that price !

DaWorstPlaya
25-12-2018, 18:26
Excellent info thanks! I'm very tech savvy, just not game tech savvy :). I'm an IT infrastructure engineer for a living, but I don't get to touch the end user hardware in my job. I can build you a kick ass server farm or enterprise network, but high end GPU hardware and VR are pretty much Greek to me lol. I do totally agree about getting mainstream hardware and software though. The community support is hugely important with this kind of stuff.

To motion or not to motion. I think that's the biggest question at the moment. Still doing that research.

No worries, same here I'm Network Engineer by profession but stepped away from PC gaming for a while. So I've had to do a bunch of research to catch back up, mainly due to racing games and VR. ;)
I have a standard rig with a butt kicker and love it.

Personally, I don't think the motion seat being separate from the wheel pedals will be an issue. Mainly because it's just to feel the initial impulse of dive, squat or roll (less is more). Plus, there is the issue of VR and a motion rig. Remember if your head is moving due to the motion rig it will move your head position in the car which will cause disorientation. The Next Level Racing motion platform comes with software the nullifies the motion due to the rig. VERY IMPORTANT!!!! Again it comes to popularity and software support for these types of features being built and properly implemented. As an infrastructure engineer I'm sure you can appreciate that.

Spangenb
25-12-2018, 19:01
No worries, same here I'm Network Engineer by profession but stepped away from PC gaming for a while. So I've had to do a bunch of research to catch back up, mainly due to racing games and VR. ;)
I have a standard rig with a butt kicker and love it.

Personally, I don't think the motion seat being separate from the wheel pedals will be an issue. Mainly because it's just to feel the initial impulse of dive, squat or roll (less is more). Plus, there is the issue of VR and a motion rig. Remember if your head is moving due to the motion rig it will move your head position in the car which will cause disorientation. The Next Level Racing motion platform comes with software the nullifies the motion due to the rig. VERY IMPORTANT!!!! Again it comes to popularity and software support for these types of features being built and properly implemented. As an infrastructure engineer I'm sure you can appreciate that.

Yep I was reading about the motion rigs causing issues with VR because of the accelerometers built into the headset which can't always be dealt with. That's definitely something I'd need to be sure about before committing to a full motion rig. I'd like to hear how the different headset manufacturers compare when used on a full motion rig.

morpwr
26-12-2018, 14:39
Thanks! Is it common to run multiple GPUs? That's a new one for me.

I do like the engineering aspect, so I'll consider a new DIY cockpit. I'll just have to work out all the mounting options for peripherals. Are there "universal" mounting plates for pedals, wheels, and shifters so you have some flexibility?

My current Logitech pedals are definitely too toy-like even with the load cell brake conversion. Everyone seems to like the Heusinkvelds, so I'm researching those.

Is Steam required, or just a personal preference? Does it change anything about the game?

I should post a pic of my current DIY cockpit just for reference. The kids and I built it almost 15 years ago from an old ping pong table, 2x4s, and the factory Recaro seat from my '86 Mustang GT :D. We've been waiting a long time for this technology to mature!


Id honestly just buy a 80/20 rig or build one yourself. You will never need anything else and its upgradable to do anything you can think of. With the equipment you are looking at youre going to want a solid rig because any flex ill show up especially if you set the brakes up for realistic forces. There is also a diy motion setup now that is relatively inexpensive and works very well. You find find the post on racedepartment or the iracing forum.

I love my Heusinkveld pedals. That was always my biggest complain with pedals. They felt nothing like a real car. The clutch feels very realistic and so does the brake with the Heusinkvelds and they are super heavy duty. Id stay away from the hydraulic pedals if it was me. I looked at those but its completely unnecessary with some of the other options like Huesinkvelds,HPP,etc. Replacement parts are expensive for the hydraulic sets and I don't see the benefit for the cost plus you have to worry about leaks.

No multiple gpus is a waste of money at this point for sim racing. I don't think there is a single game that supports it and if youre planning on vr its definitely zero.

satco1066
26-12-2018, 20:29
some people dont mind but for me its a deal breaker . thats why i will get the DOFreality rig as soon as i can and you cant beat that price !

one of my friends bought the DOFReality H3 in April and is not happy with it. The gears are very cheap and have to much play. It feels very flimsy.
One of the gearwheels broke after 2 months. After very much complaining they offered a relative cheap upgrade to the pro version.
He paid, and had to wait more than 2 months to get the parts. Now its a little bit better, but not as much as expected.

When you get it, there are no useful pre configurations. When i tried his rig the first time, i was not able to recognise what's going on.
Am i braking, do i turn left or right? Just undefined shake, shake, shake.
It took hours to get a bit out of that crap.
IMHO i would not recommend that piece of .........

I also drove a SimXperience system stage 2. As some know, this is one of the references in motion rigs, and its just only a seatmover. If i had the space, i would go with that.

Thats why, dependend to my restricted space, i bought a Next Level Motion V3 and guess what? It feels way better than the DOF Reality thingy.
Its preconfigured for most racing games, all you have to do is adjusting the strength. Plug & play, perfect.

BTW. Motion V3 comes from a european motion specialist, not from a small 2 guys group that make a commercial version of a community project!
Their software is the same as for their really expensive projects.
https://motionsystems.eu/products

Edit: added some info.

bporion
26-12-2018, 21:28
good to know an opinion on the DOFreality from someone who actually tried it . i will kept it in mind .

John Hargreaves
27-12-2018, 07:55
Welcome mate you are in the right place. Everything you need is in this forum, but it will take some time to figure it all out. You have some big questions there and you won't find instant answers but it will be a lot of fun getting set up.
... Enjoy the journey

Lol, told you :cool:

One thing that I would suggest is to make sure you get to know the sim and how to set it up to your liking. I made a post a while back about how I'd tried PC2 in my local computer shop on a sim rig with triple screens and at first it was terrible, people had been messing with the settings and it drove unrecognisably compared to what I have at home. I set everything back to roughly right and it was fine then, but first impressions would have been bad if that was my first time on the game.
The stuff suggested in this thread has been built up through years of trial and error, and like I said before it's a long job to get things just how you want it. Just make sure you get the basics right and build from there, you'll have a great time.

morpwr
27-12-2018, 13:00
And a lot of wasted money. lol How many of us have bought stuff only to buy something else that we should have bought first. Which would have been cheaper in the long run. Now that im saying it out loud its not much different then building a real car. Overbuilding is always cheaper. Maybe not upfront but the end result is always better and cheaper in the end because you don't buy things twice.

John Hargreaves
27-12-2018, 16:04
I think you make a very good point there and I agree, if you can afford it, 'do it once, do it right' is the way to go. Having said that, I've been building stuff up for sim racing for 20 years, starting with a non FFB wheel and a 15" CRT monitor. It's kind of nice to be on the lookout for new gadgets and adding to your kit as you go along though, it makes the hobby an ongoing long term pastime. I think I've had as much satisfaction out of tinkering with the hardware as I have racing over the years.

Spangenb
27-12-2018, 21:28
Lol, told you :cool:

One thing that I would suggest is to make sure you get to know the sim and how to set it up to your liking. I made a post a while back about how I'd tried PC2 in my local computer shop on a sim rig with triple screens and at first it was terrible, people had been messing with the settings and it drove unrecognisably compared to what I have at home. I set everything back to roughly right and it was fine then, but first impressions would have been bad if that was my first time on the game.
The stuff suggested in this thread has been built up through years of trial and error, and like I said before it's a long job to get things just how you want it. Just make sure you get the basics right and build from there, you'll have a great time.


And a lot of wasted money. lol How many of us have bought stuff only to buy something else that we should have bought first. Which would have been cheaper in the long run. Now that im saying it out loud its not much different then building a real car. Overbuilding is always cheaper. Maybe not upfront but the end result is always better and cheaper in the end because you don't buy things twice.


I think you make a very good point there and I agree, if you can afford it, 'do it once, do it right' is the way to go. Having said that, I've been building stuff up for sim racing for 20 years, starting with a non FFB wheel and a 15" CRT monitor. It's kind of nice to be on the lookout for new gadgets and adding to your kit as you go along though, it makes the hobby an ongoing long term pastime. I think I've had as much satisfaction out of tinkering with the hardware as I have racing over the years.

Yep I do understand the years of iterations and adjusting to get things just right. I also understand that today's "Bugatti Veyron" hardware may be a "Yugo" in a few years lol. It's a process and a passion. I am an engineer and tinkerer at heart, so I think I am well suited to this venture. I really appreciate the wealth of experience on this forum to help guys like me avoid some common pitfalls. I plan to overbuild as much as my budget allows so I can enjoy my rig for as long as possible before having to do major upgrades.

Right now it's looking like my initial budget will build a high quality rig ... without motion. The more I look into the available options for buying a motion rig, the more I think I'd rather engineer my own. That will include a learning curve since I don't have any experience with motion actuators, motion controllers, arduinos, SimTools, etc., but I think it will be very rewarding.

I'd still like some more feedback on the available VR headsets and how well each handles a motion rig. I want to buy my VR gear with a motion rig in mind.

morpwr
28-12-2018, 00:38
Yep I do understand the years of iterations and adjusting to get things just right. I also understand that today's "Bugatti Veyron" hardware may be a "Yugo" in a few years lol. It's a process and a passion. I am an engineer and tinkerer at heart, so I think I am well suited to this venture. I really appreciate the wealth of experience on this forum to help guys like me avoid some common pitfalls. I plan to overbuild as much as my budget allows so I can enjoy my rig for as long as possible before having to do major upgrades.

Right now it's looking like my initial budget will build a high quality rig ... without motion. The more I look into the available options for buying a motion rig, the more I think I'd rather engineer my own. That will include a learning curve since I don't have any experience with motion actuators, motion controllers, arduinos, SimTools, etc., but I think it will be very rewarding.

I'd still like some more feedback on the available VR headsets and how well each handles a motion rig. I want to buy my VR gear with a motion rig in mind.


If you like to tinker definitely look at the diy motion setup. Its like 2000 for a 4 post setup and from the reviews of guys that have had other systems works as well or better. It will bolt right up to a 80/20 rig. The only downside is its 220volt because the guy that designed it is in Europe.

It sounds like you are on your way to a lot of fun and a serious addiction. Its as good as a real car without the cost and time involved with up keep.

John Hargreaves
28-12-2018, 13:17
If you are hunting for information, the flight sim guys can be a good source of knowledge. Forums like DCS World and X-Plane have sections on VR, hardware, cockpits button boxes etc. I have often found those to be a useful resource over the years. They are basically doing the same thing as race simmers, just a few thousand feet above ground.

Spangenb
28-12-2018, 13:32
If you like to tinker definitely look at the diy motion setup. Its like 2000 for a 4 post setup and from the reviews of guys that have had other systems works as well or better. It will bolt right up to a 80/20 rig. The only downside is its 220volt because the guy that designed it is in Europe.

It sounds like you are on your way to a lot of fun and a serious addiction. Its as good as a real car without the cost and time involved with up keep.

I've been looking for "the" DIY motion setup and haven't found what you are describing yet. Do you have a hyperlink I can follow?

"As good as a real car without the cost and time" is exactly what I am looking for. I'll settle for almost as good! To be completely honest, some captures from driving a Porsche 917K in pCARS2 are what sent me down this road. I'll never get to experience driving racing legends like that car unless I can do it virtually ... and I want that experience to be as realistic as possible.

Spangenb
28-12-2018, 13:34
If you are hunting for information, the flight sim guys can be a good source of knowledge. Forums like DCS World and X-Plane have sections on VR, hardware, cockpits button boxes etc. I have often found those to be a useful resource over the years. They are basically doing the same thing as race simmers, just a few thousand feet above ground.


Good advice. Thanks!

morpwr
28-12-2018, 15:12
I've been looking for "the" DIY motion setup and haven't found what you are describing yet. Do you have a hyperlink I can follow?

"As good as a real car without the cost and time" is exactly what I am looking for. I'll settle for almost as good! To be completely honest, some captures from driving a Porsche 917K in pCARS2 are what sent me down this road. I'll never get to experience driving racing legends like that car unless I can do it virtually ... and I want that experience to be as realistic as possible.


Go to Racedepartment.com and its in the sim hardware forum. Its the second post. It looks to be the best solution for motion at this time. Its relatively cheap,strong and quiet. The only downside is its 220v. Not a huge deal and some guys were talking about using 110v to 220v inverters but im not sure if anybody has tried it yet.

That's what got me hooked. The sims and hardware have come so far since the early days of GT. I can get my fix while driving pretty much anything I want anytime. If you build a pc definitely get the app so the real weather works in PCARS2. That's one of the best features for me in PCARS2. That way I have to deal with weather just like you would irl.

John Hargreaves
28-12-2018, 15:28
This guy is worth checking out, he has a fairly interesting rig


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksGB6qFKWI

pretty good driver too.

Spangenb
29-12-2018, 01:48
Q
Go to Racedepartment.com and its in the sim hardware forum. Its the second post. It looks to be the best solution for motion at this time. Its relatively cheap,strong and quiet. The only downside is its 220v. Not a huge deal and some guys were talking about using 110v to 220v inverters but im not sure if anybody has tried it yet.

That's what got me hooked. The sims and hardware have come so far since the early days of GT. I can get my fix while driving pretty much anything I want anytime. If you build a pc definitely get the app so the real weather works in PCARS2. That's one of the best features for me in PCARS2. That way I have to deal with weather just like you would irl.

Oh man that DIY motion rig thread is deep! I'm on page 29 of 69. I've always wanted a 3D printer ;). It sounds like a motion rig plus a G seat for sustained G forces is the holy Grail. I think this will turn into two builds. Phase 1 for the 80/20 rig, PC, VR, wheel, pedals, and shifter. Phase 2 for the motion rig and G seat.

morpwr
29-12-2018, 14:39
Q

Oh man that DIY motion rig thread is deep! I'm on page 29 of 69. I've always wanted a 3D printer ;). It sounds like a motion rig plus a G seat for sustained G forces is the holy Grail. I think this will turn into two builds. Phase 1 for the 80/20 rig, PC, VR, wheel, pedals, and shifter. Phase 2 for the motion rig and G seat.

Yes its long but very informative. Im dying to see what the gseats(gs5 from simexperience) cost when they are released. It was supposedly demod at Toronto this year but I haven't seen anything after that. The gseat really seems to be the missing immersion part.

Spangenb
29-12-2018, 15:30
Yes its long but very informative. Im dying to see what the gseats(gs5 from simexperience) cost when they are released. It was supposedly demod at Toronto this year but I haven't seen anything after that. The gseat really seems to be the missing immersion part.

This is a very specific preference, but lateral G forces are the main reason I enjoy autocross over track driving in real cars. Speed doesn't excite me much, but the forces in cornering, braking, and acceleration get my heart pumping! On track (unless you are in a really fast car) you spend most of your time waiting. Crazy to say that driving on a race track is boring, but that has been my experience. Granted the fastest car I have driven on track is an '88 Mustang 5.0. At least it was gutted, caged, and had Hoosier DOT race tires. Check out this really brief and terribly shaky in-car video from one of my track sessions. The title gives it away, but it was really hilarious from inside the car :)

https://youtu.be/6syStXIfaWQ

Back on topic, I keep visualizing a seat mover setup where the whole cockpit (assembly of seat, pedals, wheel, shifter) are suspended like a pendulum with two actuators moving the cockpit for realistic roll and pitch. Like the effect of the DOF Reality H3, but with all the forces in the correct direction. I even think this might be able to do traction loss with only 2 actuators since your butt in the seat is at the bottom of the pendulum and would experience the largest lateral movements. Mount that on top of the SFX100 and it could be epic! The wheels are definitely turning inside my head!

morpwr
29-12-2018, 15:41
This is a very specific preference, but lateral G forces are the main reason I enjoy autocross over track driving in real cars. Speed doesn't excite me much, but the forces in cornering, braking, and acceleration get my heart pumping! On track (unless you are in a really fast car) you spend most of your time waiting. Crazy to say that driving on a race track is boring, but that has been my experience. Granted the fastest car I have driven on track is an '88 Mustang 5.0. At least it was gutted, caged, and had Hoosier DOT race tires. Check out this really brief and terribly shaky in-car video from one of my track sessions. The title gives it away, but it was really hilarious from inside the car :)

https://youtu.be/6syStXIfaWQ

Back on topic, I keep visualizing a seat mover setup where the whole cockpit (assembly of seat, pedals, wheel, shifter) are suspended like a pendulum with two actuators moving the cockpit for realistic roll and pitch. Like the effect of the DOF Reality H3, but with all the forces in the correct direction. I even think this might be able to do traction loss with only 2 actuators since your butt in the seat is at the bottom of the pendulum and would experience the largest lateral movements. Mount that on top of the SFX100 and it could be epic! The wheels are definitely turning inside my head!

Im pretty sure the traction loss has already been added by a couple guys. You just need an extra actuator. But if I remember right it was moving the seat. I agree it should move everything though. Like the Prosimu setup. Theirs has a pivot at the front and a single actuator at the rear with the motion part on top.