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Bliman
27-12-2018, 00:36
Hi all,
First I want to wish you all a great holiday season , the team included.
I am in a fierce battle with someone I know in time trial (Monza with the Mclaren GT3).
Now I shut down the brake holes for aerodynamic reasons.
But when I look at the brake temperature they are red in braking zones (around 1300-1500 C). Does this effect the braking distance or doesn't it do much?
Another problem I seem to have that I can't lock my front wheels (only if I set brake bias around 70/30 or touch the grass).
Before (it was already a while I played) I should set the strength of the brakes to about 70 but now I can set my brakes to 100 and ABS is totally off. I have tried to play with the brakes settings in the options but that also doesn't do anything?
I just want to set my brakes to the limit of just not locking.
Thanks

blinkngone
27-12-2018, 00:47
Hey, in TT I don't think closing the brake ducts buys you anything but problems(like the overheating you mentioned), close the radiator duct for sure buys you an aerodynamic advantage. Adjust the brake ducts opening to get and maintain the tire pressures at 1.8.

In Options you have Brake Sensitivity, too low and you won't get the brakes to react to your input quickly enough, too high and the brakes will grab eliminating your ability to apply the brakes smoothly for varying corners.

The Brake Pressure is where you adjust the "strength " of the brakes.

You don't want to lock your front wheels because you can't steer with the wheels locked. FYI, I think SMS' tire model simulates flat spotting so constantly locking your fronts not really a good idea.

blinkngone
27-12-2018, 01:15
Here is Alexander's TT WR. Notice he is using Brake Pressure at 95%, also his Ducts are Open a little. Note his Brake Balance. Too much forward and you will not get the car to turn in as quickly on corner entry, it will seem to understeer more. I rarely see anyone in PC TT with ABS below 75%(Default), sometimes in the 80s but not lower than 75(Gamepads sometimes lower, not many gamepads on PC).
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hkraft300
27-12-2018, 02:57
>650c the steel brakes of GT and vintage cars don't work well. They get weak, so you lose braking power and therefore can't lock the brakes.
Open the brake ducts enough that the peak brake temp never exceeds 700c.

cpcdem
27-12-2018, 07:44
I think that closing of brake ducts is a remnant of PCARS1 days, where indeed it made a considerable difference in top speed/acceleration closing them down. In PCARS2 the difference is so small, that I think it does not make any sense closing them, we are talking at top speed differences of 1 km/h when closing them completely...In my tests I have seen about a couple tenths lap time improvement in Ovals in TT where you're going always at top speed through the lap, but in "normal" circuits no noticeable difference. Could work as placebo though :)

hkraft300
27-12-2018, 12:13
What you gain in aero efficiency you will lose in braking efficiency.
Or tire overheating /inflating.

Bliman
27-12-2018, 23:58
First thank you for all the response.
I have been playing around a bit.
About the brake temperature: they are allready about 600 C when I start (forgot to mention that I play with a gamepad). And even if I set the brake ducts to 100% the brake temperature goes above 1000C. Are you sure the brakes loose braking power if over 600C?
Now I played a bit with the brake sensitivity in the controls and the braking feels the same if I set it on 0 50 or 100. That to me doesn't feel right. I can brake a bit later I think but I don't get any initial lock up (again I know that I don't want a lock up but I want it to set it so that I just avoid lock up so I can decrease the braking distance). And I slam the brakes 100% at the Variante 1 and I don't apply it smooth.
I also don't get the ABS, I have set it to 0% and I still don't get a lock up (I get a lock up if I set the brake bias way front, touch the grass or sometimes at the very last part of braking).
One last thing you can't control the KERS in this car do you?

cpcdem
28-12-2018, 00:23
Yes, over 600C the steel discs overheat and you lose a lot of braking power. But it is extremely strange if you're using 100% open brake ducts and you get brake temps over 100C...maybe it's up to the settings or your gamepad and you are actually accidentally always braking a little bit? I think it would help if you can record you while driving, with the speedometer visible and post it so we can have a look.

As for locking up in the last part of braking, this is normal, at high speed there's downforce pressing the car on the ground and also the braking force is not enough to lock the wheels. Only when your speed decreases a lot it is possible to have wheel lock-ups.

Also this car (all GT3 cars) does not have KERS. Maybe you are actually not referring to the GT3 car, but to one of the road McLaren versions? What's the exact name of the car?

Bliman
28-12-2018, 00:34
Thanks,
I will check it out tomorrow. Looks like I mentioned something very wrong.
I think (but I will know certainly tomorrow) that it is the 2016 MCLAREN P1 ™ GTR.
Sorry for this stupid mistake (I will let you know tomorrow).
Oh and thanks for the info.

blinkngone
28-12-2018, 01:04
Ok, there is a Gamepad setup in TT for the P1 GTR.
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Moussa's WR TC and ABS with wheel.
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blinkngone
28-12-2018, 01:22
Thanks,
I will check it out tomorrow. Looks like I mentioned something very wrong.
I think (but I will know certainly tomorrow) that it is the 2016 MCLAREN P1 ™ GTR.
Sorry for this stupid mistake (I will let you know tomorrow).
Oh and thanks for the info.

Ok so the P1 GTR has carbon/ceramic brake discs(hkraft was advising you on iron discs because he thought you were asking about a different car). Also here is an article about the P1 GTR and how to brake. https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/mclaren-p1-gtr-review

"Only the brakes required more time than I had. Because of the downforce, you can hit the left-hand pedal at 305km/h with all the force your thigh can muster and you won’t be able to trigger the ABS."

On PC in TT most of the runs are Default Loose. You can check out the results here. http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=4241994684&vehicle=2955645152

Also, I have only run a few tracks with this car but the one track I ran a couple of times I noticed I was way overbraking the car. I hadn't realized how much stopping power the active Aero added to slowing the car down. I was more used to driving GT3s and the difference was dramatic. I think the understeer you have could be that you have not yet calibrated to the active Aero pushing your car into the track at multiples of the force of gravity so try the hard initial brake to take advantage of the Aero then ease off as suggested. I haven't been able to find much information on the improvements made except for the general comments that the downforce available was improved. So maybe here is where you can try reducing the brake pressure. I wouldn't recommend this though, I would just practice to get used to the braking but then again I am not using a controller and you may be limited.

"The active aerodynamics must be arranged so that they provide downforce when it’s needed, but don’t add to overall inefficient drag when it’s not, and that’s a compromise too." This quote states that there is active aero but I can't verify this from the Chase Camera that anything is going on so maybe not? Here is the Official video and I can't see anything happening so maybe the "aero" is going on with internal ducts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuayeEAak9k

OK, sorry, got it.
DRS off.
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DRS on. Had to reassign DRS button for some reason, working now.
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A description of the rear wings DRS. "Besides making the angry-catfish P1 look even angrier, the aero bits contribute up to a 10-percent improvement in downforce. The GTR’s rear wing’s height is fixed—it towers 3.9 inches higher above the rear deck than the normal P1’s height-adjustable piece when fully extended—but retains its Drag Reduction System functionality, in which actuators vary its pitch from 32 degrees to zero at the push of a button for a boost at higher speeds."

Sorry I haven't found information on the KERS. The only information I have seen is on the Forum where the observation is the KERS on the P1 GTR runs out of energy but is arguably better than the Ferrari's in-game longevity.

Watch this guy's driving with the P1 GTR. His name is odemode and he is an XBOX driver. He is quicker than anyone on PC at this track. You can see on the video he is using the DRS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtjBl5aroF8&feature=youtu.be

Bliman
28-12-2018, 17:35
Thank you very much for the answer and again sorry for my stupid mistake.
So am I right that the brakes can handle 1500 C or is this to much?
What I don't get is the ABS (for Monza I mean) why wouldn't you set it to 0%? You basically have only very hard braking zones there (only 2 corners which are milder in braking)?
I also ask about the Kers because in the corners I am superior to my friend but he has better acceleration (I allready turned down the camber) but he still keeps coming back in the straights even if he overshoots the previous corner. Is there a secret with the Kers or is it totally automatic?
One last thing does anyone know a good book that explains all these setup things clearly (I am not a technical guy) like rebound, different differentials etc... It would be great to have as a reference and learn?
And thanks for helping me out.

blinkngone
28-12-2018, 17:56
Thank you very much for the answer and again sorry for my stupid mistake.
So am I right that the brakes can handle 1500 C or is this to much?
What I don't get is the ABS (for Monza I mean) why wouldn't you set it to 0%? You basically have only very hard braking zones there (only 2 corners which are milder in braking)?
I also ask about the Kers because in the corners I am superior to my friend but he has better acceleration (I allready turned down the camber) but he still keeps coming back in the straights even if he overshoots the previous corner. Is there a secret with the Kers or is it totally automatic?
One last thing does anyone know a good book that explains all these setup things clearly (I am not a technical guy) like rebound, different differentials etc... It would be great to have as a reference and learn?
And thanks for helping me out.

The brakes on the P1 GTR can use more heat(indeed require it) but I don't see closing them as helping. "During braking, a lot of heat will be generated as the friction material rubs against the rotors, slowing the car down. If the heat doesn’t get dissipated in enough time, a normal cast iron rotor can warp providing inconsistent braking feel. Carbon ceramic rotors, on the other hand, can withstand temperatures over 1830F while also weighing a lot less." so your 1500 C is 2732 F so too hot. I couldn't find the temperature rating of the Akebono brakes specifically. I found this on the Brembo brakes used in F1 and LMP1, note the operating range, nothing over 1,000. Yeah since the information I have seen ABS at 0 would work with this car, but since I can't drive you should see the ABS activation in your telemetry if it is even possible. Ok. I made a run at Monza and from the HUD I can see the ABS is Flashing so you can activate the ABS in spite of what the review thread said. When I set the ABS to "0" I get the response as described in the review thread. FWIW no one is using "0". Why not just brake a little earlier and use the nearly 1,000 available horsepower to accelerate?

https://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/24-hours-le-mans-2016-and-f1-brembo-brakes

I found this for carbon Ceramic brake discs. 900 degrees as opposed to F1s Carbon brakes.
https://www.sglgroup.com/cms/international/products/product-groups/cc/carbon-ceramic-brake-disks/index.html?__locale=en

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Hi, the KERs is automatic and could last for a few laps at Monza before it runs out. You can see when it's gone/used up in the telemetry HUD. Ok, I don't understand the usage of the term KERS with this car(and the Ferraris). I thought that KERS was a recovery system used in LMP1 Hybrids, F1 etc. and these hyper/street/track cars appear to have only a limited use battery for a quick few laps and then they are dead according to the Forum concerns I have read.

As for your friend blowing by you on the straights have you verified your DRS is working properly? If your DRS is working then he can still out accelerate you on exit if he is running a lower power ramp angle, has more clutches etc..
I checked all the TT replays on the first page and everyone is using the DRS, that said there is still a range of over 1 second between the 10 runs so DRS isn't the only variable in going fast at Monza. I can run only 3 Ghosts at a time in TT. I use the Chase Cam. What I have observed is some drivers have the lead, barrel into the corner, braking hard then are quickly overtaken and passed by the following driver who braked a little earlier and was able to get on the gas sooner.

The "Stickies" at the top of this page have numerous resources. "[Magic Inside!]Need help with Differentials". http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52783-Magic-inside!-Need-Help-With-Differentials

cpcdem
28-12-2018, 21:41
What I don't get is the ABS (for Monza I mean) why wouldn't you set it to 0%? You basically have only very hard braking zones there (only 2 corners which are milder in braking)?


Why would you want to do that? This would effectively disable ABS, so it will be only up to you to avoid locking. But since the ABS system is more efficient than any human's foot, this would simply make brake distances larger...

Bliman
28-12-2018, 22:41
I have set the ABS to 15% now. But to be honest I don't think it makes a great difference in Monza with this car. The only difference it can make is in the first chicane because I get a little lock up at the end of the braking there, therefore I put the ABS higher for it. Before I smoothly let the brakes off at the end of the braking zone. But indeed I think the ABS is more efficient there. So I put it higher. So I can concentrate only on the racing line.

Bliman
28-12-2018, 22:49
Another thing I would like to say is that I would like to give a big thanks to the people who make this forum great like blinkngone (you have helped me again with your knowledge and kindness) and cpcdem and hkraft300 and others of course.
I have found why he was faster, and it was (drums please:p) the camber angle. I had set it to hard to 0 (to increase my acceleration)and instead I have now set it to -2.8 and it makes a ton of difference in the corners and especially in Ascari and the Lesmo's so that I have now have the grip to have a great exit there.
My time is now 1:36.328 and I feel like I could be 0.5sec to a second faster.
So thanks guys.

blinkngone
28-12-2018, 23:22
Another thing I would like to say is that I would like to give a big thanks to the people who make this forum great like blinkngone (you have helped me again with your knowledge and kindness) and cpcdem and hkraft300 and others of course.
I have found why he was faster, and it was (drums please:p) the camber angle. I had set it to hard to 0 (to increase my acceleration)and instead I have now set it to -2.8 and it makes a ton of difference in the corners and especially in Ascari and the Lesmo's so that I have now have the grip to have a great exit there.
My time is now 1:36.328 and I feel like I could be 0.5sec to a second faster.
So thanks guys.

Congrats that is a really good time!:D And you seem happy even better.:)

cpcdem
28-12-2018, 23:55
I have set the ABS to 15% now. But to be honest I don't think it makes a great difference in Monza with this car. The only difference it can make is in the first chicane because I get a little lock up at the end of the braking there, therefore I put the ABS higher for it. Before I smoothly let the brakes off at the end of the braking zone. But indeed I think the ABS is more efficient there. So I put it higher. So I can concentrate only on the racing line.

I gave this combo a try, and from what I see the wheels can lock up under braking for both the first two chicanes, so I don't see a reason for putting ABS at 15%, IMO it only makes your braking more difficult.
Possible tip: Have you made sure you are properly using DRS? From what I see, in order to keep it open, you need to keep the assigned button for DRS pressed for all the time you need it open, not just a single quick press once. I'm on PC, but I assume it's the same in PS/XBox, too.

Bliman
29-12-2018, 00:10
Yeah thanks for the tip. Yeah I know about the DRS. It felt weird in the beginning because I had to press two buttons on the same time (one for gearing up and one to hold the DRS).
I shall try to put in a little more ABS. I am curious if my friend can beat my time. Otherwise I will go to Nordschleife (not in real life) to try to beat him there ;).

blinkngone
29-12-2018, 00:16
Another thing I would like to say is that I would like to give a big thanks to the people who make this forum great like blinkngone (you have helped me again with your knowledge and kindness) and cpcdem and hkraft300 and others of course.
I have found why he was faster, and it was (drums please:p) the camber angle. I had set it to hard to 0 (to increase my acceleration)and instead I have now set it to -2.8 and it makes a ton of difference in the corners and especially in Ascari and the Lesmo's so that I have now have the grip to have a great exit there.
My time is now 1:36.328 and I feel like I could be 0.5sec to a second faster.
So thanks guys.

Hi, from this thread I have learned more about the P1 GTR than I ever thought I wanted to know.:) I also learned that I had never driven the GTR using the DRS because mine wasn't working(I ran across a DriveClub thread where there were complaints of their DRS not working) and although I fixed it I will never know what it would be like since my driving days are over.:(
I learned about how various companies go about manufacturing their carbon/ceramic rotors and why their carbon fibers/binders are better than their competitors.:) I learned how difficult it was navigate the Google search to get the exact wording Google needed to get me some information on brake temperatures.:(
I learned the Automotive journalists writing some reviews are wusses if they can't get the ABS to activate.:) JK maybe I just have the ABS set too High in my settings for the game. I did notice that there were some nice long video shots of the rear wing not moving so they were not activating the DRS but then again they were driving a $3,000,000 plus car faster than any GT3 by the same margin a GT3 is faster than a GT4 so maybe discretion was warranted.
What an awesome car in an even more awesome game.

blinkngone
29-12-2018, 00:37
I gave this combo a try, and from what I see the wheels can lock up under braking for both the first two chicanes, so I don't see a reason for putting ABS at 15%, IMO it only makes your braking more difficult.
Possible tip: Have you made sure you are properly using DRS? From what I see, in order to keep it open, you need to keep the assigned button for DRS pressed for all the time you need it open, not just a single quick press once. I'm on PC, but I assume it's the same in PS/XBox, too.

Well WT? You had never driven this car and made a Default WR run at 1:35.514.:D Did you happen to notice your brake temps?;)

Bliman
29-12-2018, 01:10
Please cpcdem don't look at other cars it puts a big dent in my ego ;)

cpcdem
29-12-2018, 01:29
I have logged 2000 hours in this game :). And probably PC and XBox do not compare directly regarding lap times...But yeah, I did notice high brake temps, around 1000C. Not 1500C though!

blinkngone
29-12-2018, 01:54
I have logged 2000 hours in this game :). And probably PC and XBox do not compare directly regarding lap times...But yeah, I did notice high brake temps, around 1000C. Not 1500C though!

Yeah, ok, lots of hours but also very good.:) I don't know what to think about the brake temps because you had them at Default duct openings which is 100%. It doesn't seem to bother any of the people running Custom setups since they close them to under 50% typically. Monza isn't a track that is hard on brakes. Maybe I need to do some looking because I thought the GTR came with Akebono carbon/ceramic brakes which would be 900 C.

EDIT, still can't find sh**, Akebono claims that their brakes can operate at temperatures approximately 150 C higher than "conventional" carbon/ceramic brake rotors which is what? 900 C + 150 C = 1050 C or even higher than F1 carbon rotors?

blinkngone
29-12-2018, 01:55
Please cpcdem don't look at other cars it puts a big dent in my ego ;)

Yeah well join the club because I am a charter member since 11/17.:D

cpcdem
29-12-2018, 03:53
OK, I checked again more carefully, the brakes reach almost 1000C only during the very heavy braking for T1, but only very briefly and then cool down very quickly. So Bliman I'd suggest keeping brake ducts fully open, they don't affect top speed considerably anyway.

Btw, thanks for the compliments :). Although there are people who can probably do lap times a couple seconds further down!