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warhammer2
20-01-2019, 04:20
On the ZIC track with this car, I am finding it very difficult to drive.

I have the tires around 1.78bar hot and brakes at 400 oC (prior to next corner). Mostly on stable setup and set brake pressure at 80%, 56/42 distribution.

I have a 10 lap race at ZIC track temp 33oC and first 4 laps are good, but towards lap 6 I can 't stop the car, keeps on locking or simply overshooting into the gravel. When downshifting under heavy braking the rear also have tendency to spin out.

Checking the telemetry everything seems fine and in green colour.

Any suggestion to fix the car ? thanks for the help

blinkngone
20-01-2019, 07:36
Hi, cpcdem came up with lowering the rear ride height for stability. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?65716-BMW-M3-GT4-car-feels-broken-can-setup-fix-it&p=1553270&viewfull=1#post1553270

Are you still on PS4 or did you upgrade to Pro? Just curious, here is a TT setup. I would suggest trying cpcdem's damper page ride height adjustment as well. Don't worry if you can't get close to the laptime, heathen is the BMW GT4 master, nearly every World Record is his. If his setup doesn't suit you just ask for a different one. You can see heathen has changed the toe in front and in the rear the added toe will keep the rear from coming around too quickly but will generate more heat and wear on your tires so you need to watch this. Check out his Engine Braking at 10, if yours is lower at Default of 7 then this can contribute to your braking issues you described, his higher value should help you. I can't say this is what is happening but from your description you may be braking too hard too late. Try braking a little earlier and less aggressively this will reduce instability and as you run more laps adjust your brake points a little earlier. You might have wrecked your tires by aggressive braking in your early laps. Of course you can just ignore me which is cool.:cool:
Check out this video at VIR, notice the brake temps appear slightly higher than yours, almost never Blue(400) except the long straight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfZNdzi3J10
Just an FYI, in order to help you better consider mentioning if you are on a controller or wheel. The setup I gave you is for a wheel, for a controller you need to change the steering ratio typically.
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It's easy to overcook 4/5, messes up your whole lap.:p I never had problems with 7, AI chicken out here, outside inside clipping the apex. I tried to find a driving line map but not any really good ones.
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warhammer2
20-01-2019, 09:24
Thanks for the detailed tips and appreciate your time to explain the points. well noted !
will try and report later.
One interesting thing I noted from your screen caps are the brake ducts are set at 10% only..... would it not majorly overheat the brakes ?

I an still on PS 4 (not pro). I am on t300 with th8A and t3pa pro pedals.
Thanks for the video of the s2000, looks like temps should be slightly higher ?
Last night when I was struggling towards 5th or 6th lap of the race I brought up the full HUD (showing details of the 4 corners ) while driving to check but
seems like brake temps and tire pressure were in ideal range...... what would be an ideal tire temp for hard slicks? I think it was showing somewhere in the 88 range when hot

blinkngone
20-01-2019, 09:56
Thanks for the detailed tips and appreciate your time to explain the points. well noted !
will try and report later.
One interesting thing I noted from your screen caps are the brake ducts are set at 10% only..... would it not majorly overheat the brakes ?

I an still on PS 4 (not pro). I am on t300 with th8A and t3pa pro pedals.
Thanks for the video of the s2000, looks like temps should be slightly higher ?
Last night when I was struggling towards 5th or 6th lap of the race I brought up the full HUD (showing details of the 4 corners ) while driving to check but
seems like brake temps and tire pressure were in ideal range...... what would be an ideal tire temp for hard slicks? I think it was showing somewhere in the 88 range when hot

Hi, these are setups I can get from PC Time Trial, we can share these on PC but the consoles can't so I can get setups for console users. Correct, the brake ducts need to be adjusted for a race. EDIT:Oh and yes I think you have room to adjust the ducts for higher temps. You also need to adjust the radiator opening. It's not always the case because some drivers run TT with their race setup so you need to check. Also tire pressures need adjustment. Your brake setup is close to heathens.

I think ideal would be around 202(94 C) so 88 seems low. EDIT, sorry, this is the minimum temp to be clear, some people run at almost 100 if they can depending on track conditions. You might want to try the Softs with your current setup. In the setup I gave you heathen has increased camber(Stable Default is at 2.5) so this might help you get/keep temps up with Hard tires unless you have already increased camber yourself. The tire model SMS uses is very complicated and has driven many users to hair pulling fits regarding tire temps.
Mr. Scribbles driving line map.:) I think his lift pointers are good, note he has only a couple of hard braking zones as well.
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With only a couple of widely separated hard braking zones you may have trouble keeping your brake temperatures up. Same with tire temperatures. Also you know that the GT4 is almost the weight of a GT3 with 100 less horsepower so conserving momentum is key, if you are breaking late and hard you don't have enough hp to make up for the loss in speed with acceleration. Smoothness, carrying as much speed as you can, lifting instead of braking all can help you improve your lap times.
Mr. Scribbles White Line.
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Mr. Scribbles first Lift point.
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Mr. Scribbles early turn in for 4, which I prefer.
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blinkngone
20-01-2019, 14:04
Tire temperatures. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53062-Optimum-Tyre-Pressures-amp-Optimal-Tyre-Temperarures&p=1369893&viewfull=1#post1369893
Your 88 is low but may be just car/track/setup.
Bitcoin miners find our Advanced Search a challenge.:)

I just check the tire temperatures when I get Manual Control over the car in TT using the Telemetry HUD, on the off-hand chance the Engineers might know what they are doing.:) Use that as a target, so for your car 94 C.

For cast iron brake temperatures from AP Racing "However a pyrometer reading is not a good indicator of disc operating temperature which decays rapidly with time when the brakes are not being applied. Under racing conditions disc bulk temperatures should normally be maintained in the range 400C to 600C for best performance." So your 400C is lowest end and because you have such large distances between heavy braking I would close the ducts until you more toward 500 if you can even get there. The problem is that long run up to turn 1, what are your brake temps when you approach turn 1? If they are 400 and Blue you need to ease on the brakes earlier and get them heated before you increase pressure.

I haven't run Zhuhai in PCars 2 but I ran it about a dozen times in PCars 1, mostly in the faster cars, 1:26s lap times, so with the GT4 Mr. Scribbles White line reference may be a point where you ease on the brakes to get some heat into them whereas with the faster cars you needed to be full on braking there. I did a couple of quick tests with cold brakes and you can go past this line and still make it with the BMW.

blinkngone
21-01-2019, 15:50
Radiator and Brake Duct opening effects on speed. Testing at Daytona Tri-Oval. Why? Because I am bored.:)
First I needed to come up with a decent low drag setup.
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Radiator at 10%.
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Radiator at 20%.
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Radiator at 40%.
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Radiator at 40%, Front Brake Ducts at 58%/ Rear at 40%.
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blinkngone
21-01-2019, 16:53
There have been more than a few discussions about the BMW GT4. Many people have problems with this car in Career, the more common recommendation is to just dump the BMW in favor of the Ginetta or Cayman as can be seen in this more recent thread.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?65716-BMW-M3-GT4-car-feels-broken-can-setup-fix-it

In this thread Bealdor had explained about the need to balance this particular car with the ride height instead of the usual ARB/Shock/etc. adjustments. Also in this thread a driver who had never driven this car previously reduced the rear ride height and significantly improved the driveability(balance) of this car.

I wanted to test to see if there were any negative affects of the ride height adjustments. Most of us are used to running the rake where the front is lower than the rear and for most cars this is the best aero/balance model. It turns out for the BMW not only does running the front higher than the rear improve the balance of the car but also it's aero.

The posted setup by heathen, ride height.
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Front at 105, rear at 100.
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Front at 110, rear at 100.
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The ride height in heathen's setup, 40% Radiator opening and Ducts at 58/40.
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blinkngone
22-01-2019, 11:27
Since I was checking out the BMW I thought I would also check out the GT3s. I used Brake ducts at 60 front and 40 rear with a Radiator opening of 40%.
The Mercedes AMG was only 0.100 slower at these openings. Clearly this car has an advantage on the other GT3s in any straight section. The next least affected cars are the Ginetta and Huracan slower by 0.200 followed by the AM, Porsche, Renault slower by 0.250 to 0.300.
The cars most disadvantaged by these openings are the NSX, R8 and 650 S with these cars slowed between 0.5 and 0.6.
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blinkngone
22-01-2019, 11:59
Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport MR. Brake ducts 58/40, Radiator 40%.
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warhammer2
23-01-2019, 10:53
Hi, cpcdem came up with lowering the rear ride height for stability. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?65716-BMW-M3-GT4-car-feels-broken-can-setup-fix-it&p=1553270&viewfull=1#post1553270

Are you still on PS4 or did you upgrade to Pro? Just curious, here is a TT setup. I would suggest trying cpcdem's damper page ride height adjustment as well. Don't worry if you can't get close to the laptime, heathen is the BMW GT4 master, nearly every World Record is his. If his setup doesn't suit you just ask for a different one. You can see heathen has changed the toe in front and in the rear the added toe will keep the rear from coming around too quickly but will generate more heat and wear on your tires so you need to watch this. Check out his Engine Braking at 10, if yours is lower at Default of 7 then this can contribute to your braking issues you described, his higher value should help you. I can't say this is what is happening but from your description you may be braking too hard too late. Try braking a little earlier and less aggressively this will reduce instability and as you run more laps adjust your brake points a little earlier. You might have wrecked your tires by aggressive braking in your early laps. Of course you can just ignore me which is cool.:cool:
Check out this video at VIR, notice the brake temps appear slightly higher than yours, almost never Blue(400) except the long straight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfZNdzi3J10
Just an FYI, in order to help you better consider mentioning if you are on a controller or wheel. The setup I gave you is for a wheel, for a controller you need to change the steering ratio typically.
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It's easy to overcook 4/5, messes up your whole lap.:p I never had problems with 7, AI chicken out here, outside inside clipping the apex. I tried to find a driving line map but not any really good ones.
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I have tried this setup and found it much better than my previous one. However tire temps still around 87-92 when hot.
Brakes i keep around 500 front 460 rear range when i start braking。。
Gear final i keep at default value as I find 4.1 is too low.
how should I tune radiator opening? There is an engine symbol and always green. I suppose if I close it abit i should get faster.

blinkngone
23-01-2019, 11:07
I have tried this setup and found it much better than my previous one. However tire temps still around 87-92 when hot.
Brakes i keep around 500 front 460 rear range when i start braking。。
Gear final i keep at default value as I find 4.1 is too low.
how should I tune radiator opening? There is an engine symbol and always green. I suppose if I close it abit i should get faster.

Hi, glad you are making progress, I was worried because with all the camber heathen's is more of a Loose setup and you had been driving Stable so good for you, Loose is faster. Sorry, I think you are stuck with the tire temps because of the track.

I would guess you could be closing the radiator to 20%, where are you now? Changing the ride height would give you more speed down the straight than reducing the radiator opening under 20%.

On the Engine symbol the middle number will show damage from overheating, over 20% after a couple(EDIT: sorry about 5 laps) laps will mean the opening is too small.

Radiator change from 20% to 10% improvement is 0.100.
Ride Height change from heathen's to 105/100 rear improvement is 0.200.

blinkngone
24-01-2019, 01:52
Because I am bored again I decided to check on the effects of toe on top speed and tire wear. I used the AMG GT3 at the Tri-Oval. I checked the toe used on the WR run by Kramarsky at Monza GP, -0.3 front and +0.4 rear, used those. He uses more toe than others, especially on the rear, typically and is pretty fast as well.
Top speed not much of a negative impact.
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Tire wear not much of negative impact after 10 laps. After 10 laps my lap time was the same as my first lap.
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Top speed Huracan.
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Tire wear after 10 laps. The Huracan doesn't appear to tolerate toe as far as tire wear as well as the AMG.
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Well apparently the 650 S doesn't tolerate higher toe as well as the AMG or Huracan.
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cpcdem
24-01-2019, 03:21
Interesting testing blink, I thought I'd do some tests in a regular circuit as well. I just did 5 laps in Watkins with the AMG GT3, first with completely default setup (toe at -0.2 / +0.2 front/rear) and then only increased negative/positive toe to -1.0 / +1.0. With similar pace (was doing high 1.43s) after all tires were on temperature, I saw those results:

- At the start/finish line, after completing the 5th lap, tire pressures were identical in both tests (1.80 , 1.75 / 1.77 , 1.75 front/rear)
- At the same place, surface tire temps were also almost identical for both tests (108C , 104 / 108 , 104 in default - 108 , 103 / 109 , 101 with +/-1 toe)
- Tire wear for rear tires was practically identical (3.3% , 3.4% in default - 3.5% , 3.5% with +/-1 toe)
- Tire wear for front left tire was almost identical, but interestingly it was a little (10%) higher for the front right in the second test (5.1% , 5.1% - 4.9% , 5.6%)

blinkngone
24-01-2019, 09:37
Hi, I also made a couple of ride height runs with the AMG. Starting with minimum F/R and increasing by 5 mm there was only a minor impact unlike the BMW GT4. I believe there was a feeling that toe changes contributed to excessive tire wear which is why I wanted to check. So it's true for some cars but not others, you would need to test.

As usual the BMW GT4 doesn't like toe changes either.
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blinkngone
24-01-2019, 12:38
With toe changes, Ducts and Radiator opened up the AMG is still pretty good. The 650 S is however very sensitive to these changes.
AMG.
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650 S.
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Huracan.
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BMW.
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Renault R.S.01 GT3
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911 GT3 R.
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Ginetta G55 GT3.
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blinkngone
25-01-2019, 09:39
Interesting testing blink, I thought I'd do some tests in a regular circuit as well. I just did 5 laps in Watkins with the AMG GT3, first with completely default setup (toe at -0.2 / +0.2 front/rear) and then only increased negative/positive toe to -1.0 / +1.0. With similar pace (was doing high 1.43s) after all tires were on temperature, I saw those results:

- At the start/finish line, after completing the 5th lap, tire pressures were identical in both tests (1.80 , 1.75 / 1.77 , 1.75 front/rear)
- At the same place, surface tire temps were also almost identical for both tests (108C , 104 / 108 , 104 in default - 108 , 103 / 109 , 101 with +/-1 toe)
- Tire wear for rear tires was practically identical (3.3% , 3.4% in default - 3.5% , 3.5% with +/-1 toe)
- Tire wear for front left tire was almost identical, but interestingly it was a little (10%) higher for the front right in the second test (5.1% , 5.1% - 4.9% , 5.6%)

Hey, are the tire temps unusually high in your runs?

cpcdem
25-01-2019, 11:15
Hey, are the tire temps unusually high in your runs?

No it was the same, no matter the toe value I used. But I only tried with this car (AMG)..

blinkngone
25-01-2019, 13:03
Ok, didn't know if those are normal temps. Been thinking about changing my name from blinkngone to Loctite 242.:D

cpcdem
25-01-2019, 14:07
Ok, didn't know if those are normal temps. Been thinking about changing my name from blinkngone to Loctite 242.:D

They are a bit hot, but hard tires manage that. During the lap they get even higher at 115C in the corners, but never lose too much grip. With soft tires (at least the GT3 onrs) it would had been a pain going at such temps though...

blinkngone
25-01-2019, 15:32
They are a bit hot, but hard tires manage that. During the lap they get even higher at 115C in the corners, but never lose too much grip. With soft tires (at least the GT3 onrs) it would had been a pain going at such temps though...

Ok, do you know anything about Zhuhai? He is in the high 80s, could he possibly use Soft tires?

cpcdem
25-01-2019, 17:37
Ok, do you know anything about Zhuhai? He is in the high 80s, could he possibly use Soft tires?

I am not sure, do GT4 cars have soft tires? I will check later tonight, but high 80s (in C) I think are still fine for hard tires. At least for GT3 cars that I used some time ago, only below 80C hard tires were losing their grip. And soft tires at > 95C.

If I understood correctly the biggest problem of the OP is the overheating brakes, >500C before the braking point, with Zunhai's heavy braking zones probably means 800C or more max while braking, which make brakes to fail. Just completely open the brake ducts, there's no point closing them down, only in ovals you can see a small speed difference with them closed.

blinkngone
25-01-2019, 17:47
I am not sure, do GT4 cars have soft tires? I will check later tonight, but high 80s (in C) I think are still fine for hard tires. At least for GT3 cars that I used some time ago, only below 80C hard tires were losing their grip. And soft tires at > 95C.

If I understood correctly the biggest problem of the OP is the overheating brakes, >500C before the braking point, with Zunhai's heavy braking zones probably means 800C or more max while braking, which make brakes to fail. Just completely open the brake ducts, there's no point closing them down, only in ovals you can see a small speed difference with them closed.

GT4 Softs
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Turn 1 isn't really a hard braking zone, just early brake to scrub off some speed, maybe medium hard. Turn 7 through 12 2 Hard braking zones(7/11) and 1 medium Hard, turn 9. 500C is about half way to the mid point for cast iron brake temperature. Brief spikes over 850 C(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfZNdzi3J10) aren't really a problem as long as there is enough distance to cool back down before the next zone. Even with the ducts closed to 10% I didn't see much above 800 C. I think the OP makes long runs(10 laps), not TT so his brake temps average of 500 C over a long run seems ok.

Hey, you know I can't drive any more but, I switched to Soft tires and improved a bit.:) Well, ok, the 1st lap I made I just was doing brake checks with Hard tires(1:50.020 +0:09.922). The 2nd lap I ran with Hard tires was to get familiar with the track, picked up 2+ seconds. Then I rested up and switched to Soft tires and ran a lap, maybe I am more familiar with the car/track now because with each run I improve but I think Softs are worth a try anyway. I am a tester now and not a racer.:)
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I can get ahead of 4th through turn 9 entry/exit but by then my arm and legs are about done in. Turn 10 with this car needs some braking. I would say turn 4 is better with late hard braking using the BMW as well.
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warhammer2
27-01-2019, 00:41
Last night I did another few stints of ZIC with the M3 GT4. Soft tires. First 5 laps felt.faster than hard slicks, can carry more speed into corners. Temp is around 33oC ambient.
From lap 6 onwards i start to feel the brakes and tire problems, so less grip and have to brake earlier to make the apex. Tire temps max 103 but some corners (fronts ?) around 93 oC.
So i was doing consistent 1min 43s prior to the fade off and then started to get caught up by AI from behind. I did a few stints where I was leading or in top 3 then I would.make mistakes as the braking point and tires fade.
Brake.ducts set at 74 / 55 and brake temps are fine.
I think the tires are giving the problems.

blinkngone
27-01-2019, 01:44
Last night I did another few stints of ZIC with the M3 GT4. Soft tires. First 5 laps felt.faster than hard slicks, can carry more speed into corners. Temp is around 33oC ambient.
From lap 6 onwards i start to feel the brakes and tire problems, so less grip and have to brake earlier to make the apex. Tire temps max 103 but some corners (fronts ?) around 93 oC.
So i was doing consistent 1min 43s prior to the fade off and then started to get caught up by AI from behind. I did a few stints where I was leading or in top 3 then I would.make mistakes as the braking point and tires fade.
Brake.ducts set at 74 / 55 and brake temps are fine.
I think the tires are giving the problems.

Ok, sorry about that.:o I guess Hard tires it is then. 1:43s is pretty quick compared to PC TT runs, would put you in 4th. I could possibly manage a 1:44s on the outlap, I am at 1: 45s now. So are you going to adjust the AI? If they are overtaking it would seem their Skill needs to be lowered. Are the BMWs overtaking or the Cayman and Ginettas? These cars are 2 seconds a lap quicker on average than the BMWs in TT on PC. The only driver we have a direct comparison with is godcza running Default, Cayman he is at 1:41.636 +0:01.017 and with the BMW he is at 1:44.367 +0:04.269, Ginetta he is at 1:43.239 +0:02.594 and Aston Martin 1:42.416 +0:01.456.

In Time Trial on PC our Ambient is only 22.78 C.:p
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Ok, I set up a Hot track in Custom race Using Hard tires. Too many laps for me to run though, no arm and legs left especially since I spun on my second lap and had to run the 3rd. About the same time as I ran with Softs on cold track. Forgot to open radiator.
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Ok, I hate doing this but I ran my best time. So yeah 1:43s with Hards seems reasonable.
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This time I lost it at turn 9 so again can't get a clean lap to start my run at a good time, used standing Start. At least I opened my radiator. Used your Brake Ducts, used heathen's setup and tire pressures. I am easing on the brakes at Mr. Scribbles White line instead of hard braking later. Changed my mind about 4, braking earlier instead of late hard so I have more control and get a better racing line. Haven't figured out the last corner except too inside apex is very bad, outside to the rumble strips better.
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warhammer2
27-01-2019, 08:39
Ok, sorry about that.:o I guess Hard tires it is then. 1:43s is pretty quick compared to PC TT runs, would put you in 4th. I could possibly manage a 1:44s on the outlap, I am at 1: 45s now. So are you going to adjust the AI? If they are overtaking it would seem their Skill needs to be lowered. Are the BMWs overtaking or the Cayman and Ginettas? These cars are 2 seconds a lap quicker on average than the BMWs in TT on PC. The only driver we have a direct comparison with is godcza running Default, Cayman he is at 1:41.636 +0:01.017 and with the BMW he is at 1:44.367 +0:04.269, Ginetta he is at 1:43.239 +0:02.594 and Aston Martin 1:42.416 +0:01.456.

In Time Trial on PC our Ambient is only 22.78 C.:p
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Ok, I set up a Hot track in Custom race Using Hard tires. Too many laps for me to run though, no arm and legs left especially since I spun on my second lap and had to run the 3rd. About the same time as I ran with Softs on cold track. Forgot to open radiator.
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Ok, I hate doing this but I ran my best time. So yeah 1:43s with Hards seems reasonable.
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This time I lost it at turn 9 so again can't get a clean lap to start my run at a good time, used standing Start. At least I opened my radiator. Used your Brake Ducts, used heathen's setup and tire pressures. I am easing on the brakes at Mr. Scribbles White line instead of hard braking later. Changed my mind about 4, braking earlier instead of late hard so I have more control and get a better racing line. Haven't figured out the last corner except too inside apex is very bad, outside to the rumble strips better.
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Thanks for trying out the setup. On softs my time is ~1:43.3 but i am no where near good. AI at 80 only. on hard slicks i think i run 1:44-45 consistently. I can catchup easily when the tires and brakes are in good shape and operating normally (usually first 5laps ). And often i lost it when fighting for P1, trying to overtake on the inside but we touch or i simply overshoot or spin off when the tires lose grip.

Last night i did a race from the back of the grid p16, soft slicks and finished 5th, would have been 3rd if not.for spinning out at lap 7. Brakes are around ~470oc on all corners with 75/55 ducts. Radiator 40%.

blinkngone
27-01-2019, 10:25
Hi, AI at 80 what? What is the Skill and what is the Aggression setting? What cars are you up against for the lead? Are you using "Same Class" or "Identical"?

The settings heathen used are for the cold track we have in TT. Can you tell if the front end grip is wearing out too quickly? Or just overall f/rear? Maybe you can ease off on the camber a bit. Well c**p! I just noticed heathen used -3.6 on left front and -3.3 right, he really is a "heathen". Same for rear camber, offset. What camber settings did you use?

If you used heathen's camber settings try moving the left side camber lower to match the right side front and rear. See if the tires last longer.

Here is heathen's Suspension page from Dubai, a track hotter than you are running. His Zhuhai suspension was different because he was trying to cope with the cold track temperatures we have in TT at Zhuhai. So using the lower right side camber adjustment could help. If you think you are better off on Soft tires instead of Hards you could also try his Dubai camber settings.
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warhammer2
27-01-2019, 14:02
Hi, AI at 80 what? What is the Skill and what is the Aggression setting? What cars are you up against for the lead? Are you using "Same Class" or "Identical"?

The settings heathen used are for the cold track we have in TT. Can you tell if the front end grip is wearing out too quickly? Or just overall f/rear? Maybe you can ease off on the camber a bit. Well c**p! I just noticed heathen used -3.6 on left front and -3.3 right, he really is a "heathen". Same for rear camber, offset. What camber settings did you use?

If you used heathen's camber settings try moving the left side camber lower to match the right side front and rear. See if the tires last longer.

Here is heathen's Suspension page from Dubai, a track hotter than you are running. His Zhuhai suspension was different because he was trying to cope with the cold track temperatures we have in TT at Zhuhai. So using the lower right side camber adjustment could help. If you think you are better off on Soft tires instead of Hards you could also try his Dubai camber settings.
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AL skill 80, aggression 65. Same class 16 cars starting from the back.
I think i.might be overheating the softs. Yorkie's youtube tuitorial suggest 70-95 oC but i was around 103 on the rears last night. Fronts are around 93oc.
May switch back to hard slicks and adjust brake bias more to the front to reduce rear tire temps.

blinkngone
28-01-2019, 11:33
Hey, I have run against the BMW in a couple of Custom Races and for some reason it is the quickest car of the GT4s. Only car that challenges me. Is that what you are finding? Surprised me, I was in the Cayman. It's always that same Gray or Blue/Black one.

warhammer2
28-01-2019, 12:50
Hey, I have run against the BMW in a couple of Custom Races and for some reason it is the quickest car of the GT4s. Only car that challenges me. Is that what you are finding? Surprised me, I was in the Cayman. It's always that same Gray or Blue/Black one.

i usually find the xbow, bmw at the front.. ginetta and cayman in the middle and 86, mustangs at the back. The xbow are fast in corners but slow on the straights, cayman i find are more balanced (for AI).
Mustangs are slowest in corners

blinkngone
29-01-2019, 11:38
Hey, sorry I can't run many laps. Just to get an idea I ran the hards, I tried to put in a decent lap on lap 4. Increased toe to -0.4 front and 0.7 rear. Did not adjust tire pressure. Forgot radiator again, damaged turn 1 melee. I have tire wear at Authentic, doesn't look bad to me. Didn't push much so I think you could be faster.:D
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Your brake ducts look good.

blinkngone
29-01-2019, 21:29
Hey, I have been trying to find a short driving line video. All I have is this Formula one. Most of the lines are the ones I am using myself even though he is using a much faster car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ntRekHM70Y

blinkngone
30-01-2019, 20:24
Hey, ran 3 laps, lowered Skill to 85.
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Lowered rear tire pressure. Possibly too much. How much do tire pressures rise on you after 7 laps?
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blinkngone
30-01-2019, 20:55
I changed the ride height, easily gapped them on the first lap.
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blinkngone
31-01-2019, 01:32
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blinkngone
31-01-2019, 02:02
Turn 14.
Entry.
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Exit.
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No need to lift, just pound the curbing at 10. If you miss your line you have to lift a little.
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blinkngone
31-01-2019, 02:25
I can't load more cars than 10 on my PC, probably all I could pass on the out lap anyway.
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blinkngone
31-01-2019, 02:41
I can repeat passing 10 cars and hold the lead even though I blew turn 11 on lap 2.
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blinkngone
31-01-2019, 02:54
Hey, my computer may be so weak it might be slowing down the A.I. Maybe the AI are quicker on your console.

blinkngone
31-01-2019, 10:40
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blinkngone
31-01-2019, 12:42
Ok, finally managed to load 16 cars without crashing. Only front end damage of 1. I think it was just left front so radiator possibly ok.
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For some reason it's a Green/White Ginetta behind. When I passed the last 2 GT4s at turn 7 they were a BMW and an X-Bow.
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blinkngone
31-01-2019, 17:15
Tried the Cayman a couple times.
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Aamzingly bad driving. Both the BMW and Ginetta short cut 7 and the Ginetta jumped the curbing at 7. The BMW cut between me and the Ginetta, speared me using me as a pick or he wouldn't make the corner, and to make sure he drove me into the grass brake checked me.:) Of course he blithely continued on toward the lead.:D I guess this is to simulate online behavior so you are prepared when you go into the lobbies.:)
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I think that is pretty close to 4 wheels off in the Ginetta. Any way it takes a couple of re-starts to make it through the field to 1st on the outlap.
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I suppose this would be a Contact penalty for me.
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I had to wait in the grass for the entire field to pass by befre I could get restarted. Anyway thought I would do a few laps to see how quick I could go and check tires and brakes. There was too much damage to the Engine to go much further. Fast lap a 1:43.
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Tire pressure and temps still ok.
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I'm thinking the rear brake ducts need to be opened up more. Or reduce left rear camber, maybe both. I used heathens asymmetrical camber from the BMW. The rear left seems highest wear, this might give problems later so going back to the same camber as right rear might help. Or just reduce it by a couple of clicks.
For some reason, it's this guy in the RB that gives me fits in the Cayman, so far.
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blinkngone
31-01-2019, 21:02
Ok, back to the BMW.
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2 clicks down on left rear camber, opened up brake ducts. Looks like I went too far. FYI the car is fast but not as stable as the high rear camber. You have to lift at 10, at least I do. You have to constantly steering adjust and the car isn't as fast through 4,5,6 and 7 but overall it is quick, just more of a challenge to drive. Could be that my rear tire pressures were way low. I am confused but fast.:)
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I can see where you could really develop some bad feelings for the Mustangs. At least through the first corner they are obstacles and cause many collisions. After a couple of restarts you can figure out where the worst of them are going and then you only have to deal with that one dufus through 3. I guess they can swap drivers so dufus may appear in another livery.

Well wouldn't you know the Gods have decided to put me in with 6 Mustangs now, in the lead group is an even more nightmarish vision, the 302 in White with a Red racing stripe. There are enough Mustangs to block the entire asphalt down to turn one and I have to try sneak behind the 302 on the inside. Of course he can't get out of his own way so it's a melee and I have to dodge numerous cars trying to get around him and now there are 7 cars backed up at turn 4 instead of the usual 4. I can't get past him until turn 7 and now I am 5th typically. Once in a while I can catch 2nd by 9. After the first lap the Mustangs will be fighting for 12th thru 17th unless they have managed to wreck or damage another car.
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Yeah, I know you think I am probably exaggerating but look at this tail end parade at turn 12 of lap 1. Well at least the lead 302 has a better livery this time.:D
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blinkngone
01-02-2019, 01:41
OK, made some more changes. It's only a little off my Cayman run. 1:43s are possible with Hard tires, similar to your Soft tire runs. I make plenty of errors, I just focus on staying ahead of 2nd. The AI adapt to your pace, if you go faster once you are in the lead they will also. Just keep in front so you don't have to overuse your tires and brakes.
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blinkngone
01-02-2019, 13:27
Whether you use Standing start or Rolling start the strategy is the same. Get out front on the 1st lap and control the pace, usually a KTM in 2nd.
My first Rolling start, 1st lap.
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2nd lap.
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KTM parade following. The best way to handicap the KTMs is by lowering the Aggressiveness. Make them more cautious where they shine, cornering.
You know what? I may be completely wrong. The more I race the KTMs they seem to keep up fine on the straights because the BMW is slow. I actually undercut them in the corners even with aggression at 75. So maybe slow them down by lowering Skill instead? I am using Skill at 85 so they have a Tuned setup but not more power, I don't know why they have better top speed. Some races I will be followed by 3 AMs and 1 Ginetta. Rarely will I get another BMW up there anymore since I am driving better lap times.
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I didn't gain anything on the fast straight. Yes I do try and break the draft as well.
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blinkngone
01-02-2019, 21:30
If you pick the right car, the 1st lap strategy will work in GT3 as well.
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Contact penalty?
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Ok, so I paid him back. I was ahead but he wanted to T-bone me again and missed hardly touched me. Put himself in the grass. Guy is an a first class.
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Put himself in the grass, ended up losing 2 positions. I know it's just AI but I think it's pretty good.:D Leon Garcia, #1 qualifier with an attitude, owns the road but can't race worth a flip.
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blinkngone
02-02-2019, 00:44
If you chose the Group 44 Jaguar it will work in Vintage A. Mustang no.:)
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blinkngone
02-02-2019, 01:33
GTE is more difficult because the cars brake too hard for the corners at these AI settings and I have to slow down more than necessary.
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Inside lane is blocked, have to swerve my way through the mid pack.
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Turn 7 is a massive clog.
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Sheez, 36 mph.
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Slowed way too much at 9, the leader planned to corner cut.
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Cut 10 as well.
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The leader had the correct line a 11 but slowed so much both of us were able to undercut him, cost him 2 spots.
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warhammer2
02-02-2019, 06:23
Did a few races last night. Before the start track temps were 55oC !
First race on soft slicks, ended the race 3rd. Tires were around 89oc to 92oc all race. Tires felt ok all race but AI seems to pick up the pace towards the end.
Second race on hard slicks, actually struggled more and got passed heading into lap 6 or 7..... the tires just didn 't grip. Tire temps were similar to using softs so not enough heat? Finished 6th.
Fastest laps low 1.44 on softs and 1.45.3 on hards.
Brakes are around 400oC as i opened them up sometimes dropping to 360oc.
i usually lost time at the 3rd corner and the double left, seems like AI can carry more speed.
When i exit a corner and taking some curbs the backend just want to step out, or the TCS kicks in and limits power, whereas AI can still accelerate.
Tire pressure around 1.6 front 1.5rear at the start, stabilize to 1.76 in race trim

warhammer2
02-02-2019, 06:32
Turn 14.
Entry.
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Exit.
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No need to lift, just pound the curbing at 10. If you miss your line you have to lift a little.
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I have to slightly brake and coast into this corner, if i hit the apex on the double curbs then i can accelerate better, tried to just lift without braking i always understeer into the gravel

blinkngone
02-02-2019, 09:23
Did a few races last night. Before the start track temps were 55oC !
First race on soft slicks, ended the race 3rd. Tires were around 89oc to 92oc all race. Tires felt ok all race but AI seems to pick up the pace towards the end.
Second race on hard slicks, actually struggled more and got passed heading into lap 6 or 7..... the tires just didn 't grip. Tire temps were similar to using softs so not enough heat? Finished 6th.
Fastest laps low 1.44 on softs and 1.45.3 on hards.
Brakes are around 400oC as i opened them up sometimes dropping to 360oc.
i usually lost time at the 3rd corner and the double left, seems like AI can carry more speed.
When i exit a corner and taking some curbs the backend just want to step out, or the TCS kicks in and limits power, whereas AI can still accelerate.
Tire pressure around 1.6 front 1.5rear at the start, stabilize to 1.76 in race trim

The AI don't use the same tire model or physics. Their tires could last longer.
I am faster on Soft tires but I can't run many laps like you do. I can still get the Hard tires into the 1:43s.
To me the brake ducts make a big difference on the way the car handles, the car becomes very twitchy on Hard tires with the ducts opened.
The 3rd corner and 4/5 is where I get most of my passing done.
The problem with the backend you have, are you using 0.7 toe on the rear like I have?

blinkngone
02-02-2019, 09:46
I have to slightly brake and coast into this corner, if i hit the apex on the double curbs then i can accelerate better, tried to just lift without braking i always understeer into the gravel

Yeah, I used to have more problems through 10 but that is why I adjusted the ride height and made the changes to toe.
The BMW to me seems like it's center of mass is too high and it wants to tip/wobble during directional changes. Like an old 90s SUV.

Never mind, I guess you are having problems at 6, no gravel at 10.
This is 10.
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No gravel, just grass on curbing right after 10 exit.
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blinkngone
02-02-2019, 10:18
Turn 6, I don't lift or brake at 6. Still accelerating while on the curb. The AI even go through here with the right side tires in the grass, no one is braking or lifting at 6 at the front of the pack.
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warhammer2
03-02-2019, 01:02
sorry, i am.having problems at corners 4,9,10,14
at 4, seems like if i carry too much speed i would understeer into the run -off.
at 9 i find 2nd gear too slow while 3rd gear i usually understeer.
turn 14 is the one i slightly brake and coast, but AI.are faster thru there

blinkngone
03-02-2019, 01:39
Hi, at 4 I was having difficulty as well, another reason I increased negative toe, to make the car less understeery. You still need to use the inside of the corner on the curb to make it so you are accelerating all the way through 6.

At 9 you start from the outside under braking and go for the curbing on the inside of 9. Some of the AI actually are in the grass here. I can't shift, use automatic myself. I am trailing the brake while turning for the apex. Really hard braking here.

At 10 you can see in the pictures I am on that inside curb solid, if you are barely touching it you will have to lift or touch brake.

14 messes me up more than any other corner, I am usually far enough ahead to recover. When I hit the curb at the apex with the wheel pointed straight at the outside curbing I make my best time. Then I can just turn the wheel slightly right and drive the curb down the straight for a bit. Otherwise I am wobbling trying to catch it from spinning.

We are pretty close in lap times. we are having difficulties in different areas but are overall making about the same time. I think my worst corners on average are 11 and 14. Are you using Standing Start or Rolling? Personally I don't care for Rolling, it gives the bad cars more of an advantage and I have to work harder to get around them.

We are using similar AI settings. If the AI are too much for you toward the end of your 10 lap run remember they don't have the same tire model. You can back them off a bit to even things out. I am not sure but I would lean toward lowering the Skill, I am using 75 Aggression and I think that is ok. The BMW is just an overall slower car in GT4 compared to the AM, Cayman, Ginetta and X-Bow. Like I mentioned previously now that I am faster I don't see AI BMWs any more. A few laps in the Cayman and I ran a 1:43 flat with little tuning.

FWIW the X-Bow is just an AI car in my opinion. As an AI it is fast but if you actually drive it is underpowered. It gets eaten by the other cars on the straights bad. When the game came out a bunch of us ran the GT4s for a BOP. The KTM was a dog.
You can check out the WMD Portal for almost any track and see. http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1836888499&vehicle=1574251638

I gave the KTM a run. After a couple of attempts to adjust to the car here are my impressions. I used standing start. I could not keep up into corner 1, usually with the BMW I have managed to pass a few cars here. By turn 9 I was 3rd but the 2 lead cars were starting to gap me, usually in the BMW I am already the leader here. By turn 1 of lap 2 the 2 lead cars are between 2 and 3 and as I clear 2 I am blown off by a BMW pulling a train of other cars so I would have to start fighting with them again through 4,5,6,7,8,9 while the leaders continue to add distance.

Before this BMW experiment I didn't do many Custom races. Mostly just rain races in futile attempts to help Kev and others with Career rain event issues. I have no way to judge how fast is good except by comparing TT times with individuals I am somewhat familiar with. Usually davidcharlesmorris is pretty quick, he is at 1:41.338 +0:01.240 thanks to heathen's run. The guy just behind him, piquet, is also very quick. A 1:43 pace on Hard tires we are doing would be good enough for 4th on PC TT so it's off compared to the best drivers but not bad.

blinkngone
03-02-2019, 11:15
I ran an AI test for the BMW using 120/100 to see how fast they could go. I actually managed to beat them on the outlap but I was blocking them all the way down the finish straight.
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There is an AI programed to do this stunt, same corner multiple cars/classes. Turn 7.
It happens when I am leading on the first lap.
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blinkngone
03-02-2019, 15:01
The AI can run identical lap times at 90% to 100% Skill. There will be fewer of them doing it. The faster AI get to close the gap at ludicrous speeds though.
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Full acceleration through 3.
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Overshot 4, had to tap brakes to get back in line for 5.
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Brakes on 9 until I hit curb. The AI gain time here because they run their lefts in the grass but I don't think that is fair so I don't do it.
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No brakes at 10 but I missed a little and had to ease a tiny bit, it's all about precision.
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Blew 14 again, missed the curb.:p That's a lot of body roll I can feel in my wheel.
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blinkngone
03-02-2019, 15:59
I had not run Soft tires since early on when you said you had problems getting them to last. I have done all my tuning on Hard tires. I put on Soft tires with no other adjustments. I am slightly quicker but the car is more difficult for me to drive now.
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warhammer2
08-02-2019, 16:15
Finally have time to get.some runs in.
Changed settings of the suspension per your screens and feels like better. Best time on hards 1:42.9.
Usually on the first lap i can get up to 4th, then battle from there to 2nd or 1st. Few times i made mistakes after 5 or 6 laps, tires slipping more and more. Checked tire temps and seems abit low at around 79 - 90 depending on front or rears.
Can do consistent 1:44s and catchup to leaders but seems like every time i push the car, the tires would let me down.
Brakes are good at around 400oc hot.

blinkngone
08-02-2019, 16:28
Finally have time to get.some runs in.
Changed settings of the suspension per your screens and feels like better. Best time on hards 1:42.9.
Usually on the first lap i can get up to 4th, then battle from there to 2nd or 1st. Few times i made mistakes after 5 or 6 laps, tires slipping more and more. Checked tire temps and seems abit low at around 79 - 90 depending on front or rears.
Can do consistent 1:44s and catchup to leaders but seems like every time i push the car, the tires would let me down.
Brakes are good at around 400oc hot.

Cool warhammer, you only have time on weekends.

That is a really good time on Hards! Yeah tire wear seems critical. Tire temps you are stuck with, track conditions. What are your wear settings? I run Authentic. You may need to run OFF.

Change the AI settings until you can get to 1st on the out lap(first lap) and see if you are better off toward the end of the race as well. You can always increase it if it makes it too easy later in the race. My AI at 85/75 are only running low 1:44s- early on--, what are yours running at your settings? What are your AI running after 8/9/10 laps? Mine will suddenly pick up a lot of pace toward the end of a race.:)

After Zhuhai what track is next?

warhammer2
09-02-2019, 12:26
Cool warhammer, you only have time on weekends.

That is a really good time on Hards! Yeah tire wear seems critical. Tire temps you are stuck with, track conditions. What are your wear settings? I run Authentic. You may need to run OFF.

Change the AI settings until you can get to 1st on the out lap(first lap) and see if you are better off toward the end of the race as well. You can always increase it if it makes it too easy later in the race. My AI at 85/75 are only running low 1:44s- early on--, what are yours running at your settings? What are your AI running after 8/9/10 laps? Mine will suddenly pick up a lot of pace toward the end of a race.:)

After Zhuhai what track is next?

I run authentic as well, i am trying to overcome the difficulties with constant adjustment to my driving on -the -go.
The tires still have alot of life in them throughout the whole race (the indicator of the tires are green and almost full).
AI's best times around low 1:43s, skill 80, aggression 65. they pick up the pace towards the middle of the race once they settle into their rythum.

After ZIC, I probably want to try something which i am not familiar with. Maybe hungaroring or redbull ring.

blinkngone
09-02-2019, 12:49
I run authentic as well, i am trying to overcome the difficulties with constant adjustment to my driving on -the -go.
The tires still have alot of life in them throughout the whole race (the indicator of the tires are green and almost full).
AI's best times around low 1:43s, skill 80, aggression 65. they pick up the pace towards the middle of the race once they settle into their rythum.

After ZIC, I probably want to try something which i am not familiar with. Maybe hungaroring or redbull ring.

Ok. Maybe you could try Skill at 75 instead.

Are you keeping the BMW? At RBR the best 7.0 patch run is a 1:38.769 +0:02.137. Overall the BMW is really competitive there. Didn't think PCars 2 has the Hungaroring.

warhammer2
09-02-2019, 12:58
Ok. Maybe you could try Skill at 75 instead.

Are you keeping the BMW? At RBR the best 7.0 patch run is a 1:38.769 +0:02.137. Overall the BMW is really competitive there. Didn't think PCars 2 has the Hungaroring.

I will try to win consistently at skill 80 then i will.switch to another track. I must.have.mixed it up with hockenheim, another f1 track.
I run the BMW as I want to use the manual gearbox on my rig. The RB 86 and Mustangs are also fun but when I found the M3 really hard i wanted to master it rather than skip it.

blinkngone
09-02-2019, 13:31
I will try to win consistently at skill 80 then i will.switch to another track. I must.have.mixed it up with hockenheim, another f1 track.
I run the BMW as I want to use the manual gearbox on my rig. The RB 86 and Mustangs are also fun but when I found the M3 really hard i wanted to master it rather than skip it.

Ok, the BMW isn't as good at Hockenheim. Heathen has a recent run there if you like his setups. Well no one has the Mustang better than a 1:48.189 at Hockenheim. The same driver has the BMW at 1:48.137 +0:00.240 so the Mustang isn't bad here.

blinkngone
09-02-2019, 14:22
RBR, AI at your settings and Default date.
Mustang RTR
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BMW
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At Hockenheim, BMW, -Default date, same setup as Zhuhai, only switched to Soft tires. Looks ok here. I lost time banging with AI but definitely need some setup changes.
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Cayman, same setup as Zhuhai with the change to Softs. AI with your settings the Cayman won't be a challenge.
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warhammer2
11-02-2019, 09:31
finally won the race at ZIC, tried a few times and was 2nd on the other time.
Really difficult towards the end the car just wouldn't slow or turn in, not sure why it drops off so dramatically.
Fastest lap 1:42.7 on hards.
Always a ginetta g55 gt4 as leader.... very fast as AI.

I think i have had enough of ZIC..
.. RBR next

blinkngone
11-02-2019, 09:40
finally won the race at ZIC, tried a few times and was 2nd on the other time.
Really difficult towards the end the car just wouldn't slow or turn in, not sure why it drops off so dramatically.
Fastest lap 1:42.7 on hards.
Always a ginetta g55 gt4 as leader.... very fast as AI.

I think i have had enough of ZIC..
.. RBR next
Well congratulations warhammer!:D I am happy you are moving on but since I have more laps at Zhuhai than any other it is now my test track.:D Let me know when you want to try a PC Time Trial setup for RBR.

blinkngone
11-02-2019, 10:29
Meh, I don't know. The only race I can find with the BMW has the Caymans really fast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkpZSg6eZXQ
In the video the BMW has almost the exact best lap that I have in my run with the latest setup. He wasn't able to catch the slightly slower Caymans in 10 laps. This is what I have found in my runs, you need to take the lead early or the lead cars will gap you too much.
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cpcdem
11-02-2019, 15:55
finally won the race at ZIC, tried a few times and was 2nd on the other time.
Really difficult towards the end the car just wouldn't slow or turn in, not sure why it drops off so dramatically.
Fastest lap 1:42.7 on hards.
Always a ginetta g55 gt4 as leader.... very fast as AI.

I think i have had enough of ZIC..
.. RBR next

Great, RBR is my favorite track! Will do some laps later tonight...

blinkngone
11-02-2019, 17:11
Great, RBR is my favorite track! Will do some laps later tonight...
Cool, can you do Custom race instead of TT with 16 AI? He runs 80 Skill and 60 Aggression. Typically 10 laps.
I ran the Cayman because I expected it to be the best AI based on the video.:confused:The first time I let that stupid KTM break away.
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The 2nd time I took the lead after 3 but had to block a Rocket Bunny to lead the first lap and no way was I going to be able to hold it off after a couple of laps, too much top end on the RB. KTM 3rd, Ginetta 4th.
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Timi in the Cayman got squeezed in a 3 wide heading for 2, may be my fault but I think the Cayman in the middle forced him to the grass when he lost control.
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For me the BMW needs some work. Only one other BMW of the 16 AI.
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Kind of tippy, top heavy.:D
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This time there were 4 total BMWs. I didn't like running it at all. The slightest tap from an AI would send me fighting for control. Didn't help that my fellow BMW driver kept tapping me.
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cpcdem
11-02-2019, 23:05
Cool, can you do Custom race instead of TT with 16 AI? He runs 80 Skill and 60 Aggression. Typically 10 laps.


I did both, similar feel in both TT and race, in both cases the car handles so weirdly! I agree with warhammer2, in places where you struggle for grip (mainly in the inner section), the AI flies away. But they are relatively slower in the other parts of the track, especially turn one they are very slow, practice it and prepare a good exit after this corner and can pass the AI in the straight afterwards. I think tire behavior is consistent, at least in the default date that I used, they did not overheat or lost a lot of performance. It's just that the handling of this car is so very odd...

blinkngone
11-02-2019, 23:58
I did both, similar feel in both TT and race, in both cases the car handles so weirdly! I agree with warhammer2, in places where you struggle for grip (mainly in the inner section), the AI flies away. But they are relatively slower in the other parts of the track, especially turn one they are very slow, practice it and prepare a good exit after this corner and can pass the AI in the straight afterwards. I think tire behavior is consistent, at least in the default date that I used, they did not overheat or lost a lot of performance. It's just that the handling of this car is so very odd...

Yes, I had to feather the throttle through 6, almost continuous countersteering like the Formula C. Turn 7 also touchy, turn 1,2, 3,4 were easy. Turn 5 a touch from AI can take me out. 9, 10 pretty good.

Warhammer hasn't driven RBR yet.
This is my best 1st lap.
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But here was turn 6???
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Another.
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Ok, I didn't like it much but got 1st. I wasn't able to take the lead until turn 9 of lap 2 but then easily gapped 2nd place to start finish. The back markers fight more aggressively than the lead 2 cars.
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The 1st lap the tires are not good through 6,7 so be careful.
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I changed the setup a little. The car is reasonably quick compared to the AI. The problem is trying to get through the field of AI because the BMW is so easily upset from the lightest tap.
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You need to stay close to the curbs to control the car or you risk spinning out.
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blinkngone
12-02-2019, 11:49
Hey, Hockenheim, accidently put it(setup) in the Console thread.:o http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?64820-Setup-Requests-for-Consoles(pictures)-Post-Patch-7-0&p=1559416&viewfull=1#post1559416
Tried a 10 lap race to check tires(Softs), led every lap but arm quit on me. The AM is in 2nd and he will bomb ram for no reason at 6(both sides rear), BMW 3rd and Ginetta in 4th(the Ginetta is quick and could all of a sudden catch up by lap 9 so you may have a battle again if you draw the same mix of cars. If the Ginetta clears the other cars early on you could have a battle like you did at Zhuhai.
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Tire wear.
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The AI are toughest at 6. You should have the advantage at 8(Mercedes). Turn 2 was also good for the BMW. I was able to use the curbing pretty well 12 through 15.

cpcdem
12-02-2019, 16:27
Tried a 10 lap race to check tires(Softs), led every lap but arm quit on me. The AM is in 2nd and he will bomb ram for no reason at 8(both sides rear)

Yeah, unfortunately not much you can do about the AI, since they use different physics than the player their speed is very inconsistent, at some parts of the track they are much faster than humans, in others they are much slower, so in some places they expect braking points much later than you can do and other times much earlier, which leads to a lot of dive bombing and impact. You can't do much about this, except learn how they tackle each corner and be prepared about their moves, so you either get out of their way, or block them to avoid their divebomb. Unfortunately we will need a lot faster computers than what we currently have in this age, in order to have a good enough AI behavior.

blinkngone
12-02-2019, 16:42
Well the AI may be smarter than we think already.:D The AM/AI bent the lower rear outer facia outwards on both sides causing a lot of drag on the straights.:D This would cause me more problems than if he had just knocked them off, crafty little bugger.:)

blinkngone
12-02-2019, 16:50
Yeah, unfortunately not much you can do about the AI, since they use different physics than the player their speed is very inconsistent, at some parts of the track they are much faster than humans, in others they are much slower, so in some places they expect braking points much later than you can do and other times much earlier, which leads to a lot of dive bombing and impact. You can't do much about this, except learn how they tackle each corner and be prepared about their moves, so you either get out of their way, or block them to avoid their divebomb. Unfortunately we will need a lot faster computers than what we currently have in this age, in order to have a good enough AI behavior.

Yeah that's why I do this, to let warhammer know where to be prepared. I am the tester since I can't race.:D

Hey I watched your Clio race, you won of course.:D Who are the guys doing the commentary?

cpcdem
12-02-2019, 17:06
Yeah that's why I do this, to let warhammer know where to be prepared. I am the tester since I can't race.:D

Hey I watched your Clio race, you won of course.:D Who are the guys doing the commentary?

Did I? My latest races have been a disaster actually! :)
Which race are you referring to, where did you watch it?

blinkngone
12-02-2019, 17:21
Did I? My latest races have been a disaster actually! :)
Which race are you referring to, where did you watch it?

It's here, the one at Dubai. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52639-Project-CARS-2-Videos&p=1558045&viewfull=1#post1558045

It's from the end of January. What class cars are you running this month?

cpcdem
12-02-2019, 17:44
It's here, the one at Dubai. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52639-Project-CARS-2-Videos&p=1558045&viewfull=1#post1558045

It's from the end of January. What class cars are you running this month?

Same (Renault V6 and Renault Clios), but races have not been going as well since then :)
There's no commentary on the video though, this is why I was not sure what race you were referring to. Do you mean the guy giving spotter and other instructions? This is CrewChief (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51574-Crewchief). Or do you mean some strange people talking through the race? This is ourselves, talking through discord while racing :). It is very easy to tell who am I, it's the voice with the very distinctive non-UK English accent :)

blinkngone
12-02-2019, 17:55
Same (Renault V6 and Renault Clios), but races have not been going as well since then :)
There's no commentary on the video though, this is why I was not sure what race you were referring to. Do you mean the guy giving spotter and other instructions? This is CrewChief (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51574-Crewchief). Or do you mean some strange people talking through the race? This is ourselves, talking through discord while racing :). It is very easy to tell who am I, it's the voice with the very distinctive non-UK English accent :)

Did you say "Well done guys congrats."?

cpcdem
12-02-2019, 18:20
Did you say "Well done guys congrats."?

Haha, no, well, yeah there's another guy with a very distinctive non-English accent :). Not this one, I can be heard at 5:25, saying "Let's see if I will finish the race", or at least that's what I intended to say :). (had a sudden disconnection due to Steam just a few minutes earlier in our previous race, while I was in the first positions). But this is getting way off topic :)

blinkngone
12-02-2019, 18:52
Haha, no, well, yeah there's another guy with a very distinctive non-English accent :). Not this one, I can be heard at 5:25, saying "Let's see if I will finish the race", or at least that's what I intended to say :). (had a sudden disconnection due to Steam just a few minutes earlier in our previous race, while I was in the first positions). But this is getting way off topic :)

Hey, I never would have guessed.:) .

Hey, warhammer can only run Fridays and weekends so we can jam on his thread a little.:)

blinkngone
13-02-2019, 19:17
Sorry, I just had to post this up. Notice who is last in this test run.
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Turn 6 brake point
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Off the brakes. You need to be off the accelerator as well.
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Stay close to the curbing. Depending on your speed you can start feathering the accelerator here.
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Exiting the curbing head for the curbing ahead to your right. On the accelerator.
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Turn 9 Brake point.
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Off the brake and accelerator.
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If you miss your turn 9 exit point you end up out here.
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Turn 10.
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Ian Bell is in the Red/Black KTM.

blinkngone
13-02-2019, 22:22
Latest setup which I ran the 1:40.371 with. In my settings I also changed TC and ABS to High, sorry I just found everything too touchy on low. This RBR track turned out to be a lot tougher than Hockenheim which is opposite of my initial AI testing. I think cpcdem is right it is just weird. You can see that in the video where the poor BMW starts 3rd and finishes 3rd and all his weird spins in the middle laps of the race. I found it best to stay close to the curbs if not on them to avoid some of the weirdness. Also turn 9 turns out to be a lot trickier than I thought, as though there is something in the track on turn in that can send you out of control so practice your safest entry on turn 9. Many times I locked the rears as the car seemed to get really light here. At turn10 you can see that the BMW driver on a few laps tried to force his car inside causing him to countersteer to save it. Just apex and let the car ease over to the left curbing.
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Tire pressures. I haven't adjusted these much. At race start pressures are in the 24s. At the end of 4 laps they are in the high 26s. It will kind of depend on the race date and cloud cover you select but you will need to adjust the pressures.
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The BMWs appear slower. I just ran quick enough to keep a decent gap.
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Just to get an idea I ran a few laps in the Cayman. Needs some work. Brake lock ups, for some reason balance was at 47/53. The car wasn't very stable in the high speed turns, 6 and 7.
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Moved balance forward. The car is pretty quick, mostly trying to cope with my disabilities. Anyway my best lap ever but a Ginetta right behind.
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Ok, I can repeat 1:39s but AI can also repeat their fast laps.
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Ran a 4 lap. The BMW in 2nd banged doors with me up to turn 3 on lap 3.
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cpcdem's TT run for you to test.
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Scar3tactics
21-02-2019, 18:16
Piggybacking on this thread to ask about GT4 tires and track temps. I’m running a GT4 race at Donington National in spring with track temps of 95f (35c) Based on this post:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?61399-Soft-or-hard-that-is-the-question&p=1482399&viewfull=1#post1482399

I would assume that track temps are high enough to run Hards, but watching my temps over a few laps it looks like my left rear will hit the mid/low 80s. Rarely get to 80 on my left front, and the other two are low 70s. Sofas seem to do a lot better, but I wanted to see others experience? Do GT4s just need higher track temps to run hards?

blinkngone
21-02-2019, 18:56
Piggybacking on this thread to ask about GT4 tires and track temps. I’m running a GT4 race at Donington National in spring with track temps of 95f (35c) Based on this post:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?61399-Soft-or-hard-that-is-the-question&p=1482399&viewfull=1#post1482399

I would assume that track temps are high enough to run Hards, but watching my temps over a few laps it looks like my left rear will hit the mid/low 80s. Rarely get to 80 on my left front, and the other two are low 70s. Sofas seem to do a lot better, but I wanted to see others experience? Do GT4s just need higher track temps to run hards?

If you are following warhammer's progress you can see he was almost able to get use out of the Soft tires at Zhuhai at track temps of 145 where the tires seemed to start to really go off after 6 laps. So based on that your 95 track temps at Donington would seem ok for soft tires. I had to run Hards at Red Bull Ring with track temperatures at 103. It's mostly tire wear, if you run tire wear off you may be good on softs at Donington.

Maybe others will be able to add to this.

Are you on PC? What GT4 are you using?

Hey, made a run at Donington. Tried Hard tires, would need a lot of setup changes to get them working. Softs are good.
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Even with going off at last left before start/finish.
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Negligible tire wear using Authentic.
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Focus on pressures instead of worrying about temps on this track.

Scar3tactics
21-02-2019, 20:08
Was using the Aston by had similar results on other cars too. I don’t have a good sense of tire wear on those indicators. Over how long of a race did you get that wear? I’ve been running 30 min timed races.

I’m on PC with authentic tire wear

blinkngone
21-02-2019, 20:17
Was using the Aston by had similar results on other cars too. I don’t have a good sense of tire wear on those indicators. Over how long of a race did you get that wear? I’ve been running 30 min timed races.

I’m on PC with authentic tire wear

Sorry, just 2 laps, warhammer only runs 10 lap races, so less than 18 minutes. Sorry, I doubt the Softs will last well after 30 minutes so you are possibly stuck with Hards. There could only be about 70% left on Softs if wear rates don't increase more dramatically. I enlarged the tire wear indicator and came up with approximately 1/16(0.0625) of wear and the total height was 2.750. So, around 8/16ths or half inch of wear over 30 minutes. I wasn't driving real hard and wear tends to increase with hard driving.

Just run 5 laps on Softs and see how you do for wear.
Ok, ran 9 laps but I was only running 1:39s.
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I found the left front going yellow if I pushed it after about 6 laps and the temps are going higher. McLeans and Coppice seem to be particularly hard on the left front.
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The left front will cool back down by the time you reach the Fogarty Esses but then you will put more pressure on it at the Melbourne hairpin. To me the Softs just aren't worth it at this track.
My suspension.
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warhammer2
23-02-2019, 01:13
Hey guys sorry I haven't had the chance to try the RBR yet, work is pretty hectic and other family commitments means i haven't driven since 2 weeks ago. Very off topic but i have been looking load cell brake upgrades for the tp3a pro. Never tried a LC before and its difficult to source here in Hong Kong.

blinkngone
23-02-2019, 08:52
Hey guys sorry I haven't had the chance to try the RBR yet, work is pretty hectic and other family commitments means i haven't driven since 2 weeks ago. Very off topic but i have been looking load cell brake upgrades for the tp3a pro. Never tried a LC before and its difficult to source here in Hong Kong.

Hi warhammer, no apologies due. Hope work/family calms down eventually. I have a load cell on my V3, I think it was better once I got used to it.

The Sim Racing solutions seems to be a good choice.
https://www.simracingsolutions.co.uk/

oops, just says out of stock. Stock due March 1st but it doesn't say what year.

warhammer2
26-02-2019, 00:15
Hi warhammer, no apologies due. Hope work/family calms down eventually. I have a load cell on my V3, I think it was better once I got used to it.

The Sim Racing solutions seems to be a good choice.
https://www.simracingsolutions.co.uk/

oops, just says out of stock. Stock due March 1st but it doesn't say what year.
Thanks, checked out your suggestions and sent them an email to confirm. Should have stock come 1st March. Going to give it a go when it is available, as i don't feel good with the brakes right now.

blinkngone
26-02-2019, 00:21
Thanks, checked out your suggestions and sent them an email to confirm. Should have stock come 1st March. Going to give it a go when it is available, as i don't feel good with the brakes right now.

Ok, I had read some reviews on the potentiometers(brake in particular) used in the T3PA Pro and there were concerns about the quality early on. The Logitech ones needed cleaning or they would stick, again mostly the brake.