Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 104

Thread: Project Cars Tuning Guide : 3f and case studies now live!

  1. #81
    WMD Member Jussi Viljami Karjalainen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    3,277
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by willfred_TandZproduction View Post
    I would actually go further and say you approach every track from scratch. as this often only leads to unwanted handling characteristics. i understand why people do it but once you get the idea of tuning it won't take long to do it from scratch.
    I only made the calculator so that the numbers in the setup screen actually translate into something meaningful and comparable between cars, and to remove as much unnecessary testing with guesswork setups that are never going to make sense (like racing car setups with 100% higher rear spring suspension frequencies, or locked down supercritical damping, or completely underdamped settings, etc.). If you don't know what the numbers actually mean for the car you can easily end up testing more or less ridiculous combinations for hours on end trying to blindly find something that'll work, especially if you try to employ something you've learned with one car in another, which might well have completely different geometry, that you can't check. It's kind of like looking at how the tyre temperatures are coming out when adjusting for tyre pressure and camber instead of just guessing, giving you actual metrics to work with.

    It's also really useful for finding specific issues with cars. Like at one point the BMW M3 GT4 had significant issues while entering corners with bumps on the entrance, or just in situations where you were being rough with it. It could have been caused by many things, like too rear biased springs, too much rear rebound damping causing oversteer in braking or lift-off situations, too much rear bump damping causing the rear to break loose in the bumps, diff issues, or many other things, but when I fed the setup into my calculator, I instantly saw that the rear damping was just too low (average was significantly under 50% critical at 3 in/s), it couldn't control the rear springs properly and the tail wanted to oscillate a lot longer than the front. So I just found damper values that made sense for the situation and instantly the car was fixed, handling bumps with ease. At one point the BMW M3 E30 Gr.A had issues with very sudden and terminal understeer, even if the actual front end grip level was fairly high. It just wanted to lose the front grip suddenly. On top of that the car was overall bouncy and unstable when hitting disturbances with only one side. Feed it into the calculator, and I instantly saw that the front suspension frequency was 60% higher than the rear and just massively stiff overall, which robbed the front end of any progressiveness, the damping was very low which made the car oscillate too long (bouncy), and the anti-roll bars were overly stiff, which made hitting asymmetric bumps disturb the other side of the car too harshly (suspension wasn't independent anymore). Fix the front bias to something more sensible, up the dampers to more suitable range, and lower the ARBs, and the car became a ton more progressive and dynamic during entries, didn't get bothered by bumps, and maintained stability over kerbs etc. One of the LMP2 cars felt significantly more difficult to drive than the others even when set up similarly, it was less settled over bumps and overall less calm and trust inspiring, the calculator revealed that even though the weight, weight distribution, motion ratios, springs and damper settings were almost identical with another car, the damper digression knee was different, which caused it to need very different damper settings to hit the same actual damping rates as the other car. Adjust them again with that taken into account, and the car was just as great as the other one (and trying to replicate the "bad" setup in the other car also gave similar problems). There were tons of situations like these where I could fix problems in car behavior by just looking at how the suspension metrics came out. Trying to figure those out by adjusting one thing, then driving a few laps, adjusting another, driving a few laps again, etc., would have taken days, instead it took minutes. =)

    It's not a cure all, and mostly it's useful for finding a nice baseline to start from, but it can be immensely helpful at preventing "silly stuff". =)

    Personally, after I've gotten a baseline for a car that I'm comfortable with, I've mostly found that other than aero and gearing (and diff on occasion) adjustments there's really not too much to be gained by fiddling too much with the springs and dampers, a car that corners neutrally and handles bumps well on one track tends to corner neutrally and handle bumps well on other tracks as well. Occasionally stiffening up a bit for a smooth track or softening the setup for a bumpy track can be beneficial, but even then I like to maintain the same front/rear and damping bias in the car, to retain the basics of the handling even though the stiffness changes, making it easier for me to get comfortable with the car on the new track. =)
    CPU: Intel i7 2600K @ 4,6 GHz | GPU: Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB Windforce 3 | MOBO: ASUS P8P67 Pro | RAM: 4 x 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600 | Sound: ASUS Xonar U7 | PSU: NZXT HALE90 650W 80+ Gold | OS: Win8 x64 | Wheel: Thrustmaster T500 RS GT wheel/pedals, Logitech G25 shifter | Monitor: 2x23" IPS-LCD 1920x1080 60Hz & 42" 1920x1080 60Hz | SpeedTest | PingTest | PingTest to UK
    Sim history: IndyCar Racing I & II, F1GP2, Grand Prix Legends, Sports Car GT, Richard Burns Rally, GT Legends, Race/GT-R Evolution/Race On/etc., RaceRoom Racing Experience, SimRaceWay, Live For Speed, netKar Pro, Assetto Corsa, rFactor 1 & 2, among others...

    My road car OEM style setups (updated occasionally when I find new info) over at P.CARS Setups Database

    My Suspension Calculator spreadsheet for Project CARS v1.3.5.2 - Updated on 16.10.2016!

    Suspension Calculator now available on the P.CARS Setups Database website!

    Next Gen = More Biscuit!
    The following 4 users likes this Post: choupolo, OnyxD, Rafaellongbeach, RimanDk


  2. #82
    Superkart Pilot Equation's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    248
    Platform
    PS4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jussi Karjalainen View Post
    Very interesting text.
    Where you find all those equations? I tried to google those, but I didn't find.

  3. #83
    Superkart Pilot danpinho's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Bayern
    Posts
    191
    Platform
    PS4 Pro
    In one of your vids you said that 9 out 10 race cars have a rear end setup made assym.
    Did I understand it correctly?

  4. #84
    WMD Member Jussi Viljami Karjalainen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    3,277
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Equation View Post
    Where you find all those equations? I tried to google those, but I didn't find.
    Googling for "natural frequency" will give you the suspension frequency (you do need the weight, weight distribution and unsprung weights front/rear for the car as well to make proper use of it though, as well as the spring rate and the motion ratio for the spring), "critical damping" will get you something that helps you calculate the damping ratio of the spring+damper+weight system. For the most part you can't really calculate the suspension frequencies or damping rates of a car that you don't know the motion ratio or digression knees of, and it can be massively misleading to try.

    I have actually decided I'll try to clean up my spreadsheet a bit and release it into the wild, the online version is still some time away so it'll give people something to play around with in the meantime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by danpinho View Post
    In one of your vids you said that 9 out 10 race cars have a rear end setup made assym.
    Did I understand it correctly?
    I hope not, if I did it was by accident. Can you point me to a spot in the video?

    What most race cars do have is stiffer rear suspension than front suspension (depending on the weight distribution etc. this might not actually mean the springs are stiffer, just that the overall effect is stiffer). Also cars with a live rear axle have a different motion ratio in roll and heave, so have different effective suspension rates when cornering and in a straight line.
    CPU: Intel i7 2600K @ 4,6 GHz | GPU: Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB Windforce 3 | MOBO: ASUS P8P67 Pro | RAM: 4 x 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600 | Sound: ASUS Xonar U7 | PSU: NZXT HALE90 650W 80+ Gold | OS: Win8 x64 | Wheel: Thrustmaster T500 RS GT wheel/pedals, Logitech G25 shifter | Monitor: 2x23" IPS-LCD 1920x1080 60Hz & 42" 1920x1080 60Hz | SpeedTest | PingTest | PingTest to UK
    Sim history: IndyCar Racing I & II, F1GP2, Grand Prix Legends, Sports Car GT, Richard Burns Rally, GT Legends, Race/GT-R Evolution/Race On/etc., RaceRoom Racing Experience, SimRaceWay, Live For Speed, netKar Pro, Assetto Corsa, rFactor 1 & 2, among others...

    My road car OEM style setups (updated occasionally when I find new info) over at P.CARS Setups Database

    My Suspension Calculator spreadsheet for Project CARS v1.3.5.2 - Updated on 16.10.2016!

    Suspension Calculator now available on the P.CARS Setups Database website!

    Next Gen = More Biscuit!

  5. #85
    WMD Member Jussi Viljami Karjalainen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    3,277
    Platform
    PC
    I have now released my spreadsheet to give people something to play with for the time being, until we can get the online version up and running. Head here to get it and learn a bit more about it.

    http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...=1#post1033985
    CPU: Intel i7 2600K @ 4,6 GHz | GPU: Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB Windforce 3 | MOBO: ASUS P8P67 Pro | RAM: 4 x 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600 | Sound: ASUS Xonar U7 | PSU: NZXT HALE90 650W 80+ Gold | OS: Win8 x64 | Wheel: Thrustmaster T500 RS GT wheel/pedals, Logitech G25 shifter | Monitor: 2x23" IPS-LCD 1920x1080 60Hz & 42" 1920x1080 60Hz | SpeedTest | PingTest | PingTest to UK
    Sim history: IndyCar Racing I & II, F1GP2, Grand Prix Legends, Sports Car GT, Richard Burns Rally, GT Legends, Race/GT-R Evolution/Race On/etc., RaceRoom Racing Experience, SimRaceWay, Live For Speed, netKar Pro, Assetto Corsa, rFactor 1 & 2, among others...

    My road car OEM style setups (updated occasionally when I find new info) over at P.CARS Setups Database

    My Suspension Calculator spreadsheet for Project CARS v1.3.5.2 - Updated on 16.10.2016!

    Suspension Calculator now available on the P.CARS Setups Database website!

    Next Gen = More Biscuit!
    The following 5 users likes this Post: Equation, gruzzlebeard, Hammerpgh, jimmyb_84, RimanDk


  6. #86
    Superkart Pilot MABlosfeld's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Brasil/SC
    Posts
    353
    Platform
    PC
    Just a suggestion: SMS developing 3D fine tuning and launch as DLC, I like and buy.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tuning setup.jpg 
Views:	44 
Size:	205.8 KB 
ID:	216161
    CPU (i5 3330 Mhz) + RAM (2x4GB G.SKill 1.600 Mhz) + GPU (RIP GTX560 TI MSI) GTX970 G4 MSI + POWER (XFX 750w) + SCREEN (TV SAMSUNG 46) + KEYBOARD/MOUSE (GX GAMING) + WHEEL (G27) + VR (FREETRACK/OPENTRACK) + COCKPIT (House made)
    The following 3 users likes this Post: centurian, Fre.Mo, vahagn_hayk


  7. #87
    Kart Driver
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jussi Karjalainen View Post
    I have now released my spreadsheet to give people something to play with for the time being, until we can get the online version up and running. Head here to get it and learn a bit more about it.

    http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...=1#post1033985
    Hey Jussi, Thanks for the effort. This Calculator made my life so much easier. Now i can tune a car so much faster and have more time to spend in the tracks. One thing i would like to know, are you going to release a new version with the lastest cars added to the game ? Thanks. Keep up the good work.
    The following user likes this Post: Jussi Viljami Karjalainen


  8. #88
    WMD Member Jussi Viljami Karjalainen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    3,277
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by mickeyknoxx View Post
    Hey Jussi, Thanks for the effort. This Calculator made my life so much easier. Now i can tune a car so much faster and have more time to spend in the tracks. One thing i would like to know, are you going to release a new version with the lastest cars added to the game ? Thanks. Keep up the good work.
    Yes, it should be out early next week.
    CPU: Intel i7 2600K @ 4,6 GHz | GPU: Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB Windforce 3 | MOBO: ASUS P8P67 Pro | RAM: 4 x 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600 | Sound: ASUS Xonar U7 | PSU: NZXT HALE90 650W 80+ Gold | OS: Win8 x64 | Wheel: Thrustmaster T500 RS GT wheel/pedals, Logitech G25 shifter | Monitor: 2x23" IPS-LCD 1920x1080 60Hz & 42" 1920x1080 60Hz | SpeedTest | PingTest | PingTest to UK
    Sim history: IndyCar Racing I & II, F1GP2, Grand Prix Legends, Sports Car GT, Richard Burns Rally, GT Legends, Race/GT-R Evolution/Race On/etc., RaceRoom Racing Experience, SimRaceWay, Live For Speed, netKar Pro, Assetto Corsa, rFactor 1 & 2, among others...

    My road car OEM style setups (updated occasionally when I find new info) over at P.CARS Setups Database

    My Suspension Calculator spreadsheet for Project CARS v1.3.5.2 - Updated on 16.10.2016!

    Suspension Calculator now available on the P.CARS Setups Database website!

    Next Gen = More Biscuit!
    The following user likes this Post: Hammerpgh


  9. #89
    Kart Driver
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jussi Karjalainen View Post
    Yes, it should be out early next week.
    Nice. Thanks a lot.

  10. #90
    Kart Driver
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    64
    Platform
    PS4
    Is it possible to get a rain setup video, just explaining the Ground ideas to setting up a car in the rain.

Similar Threads

  1. [G25-G27] - Wheel Setup Guide
    By Photonenbert in forum PC - Technical Help & Support
    Replies: 895
    Last Post: 30-08-2019, 00:41
  2. Project Cars - BRAZIL
    By Rafael Gomes Luiz in forum Project CARS on Playstation 4
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 29-12-2017, 10:21
  3. Oculus rift DK2 Setup Guide
    By rafffel in forum Virtual Reality Devices Support
    Replies: 1186
    Last Post: 24-02-2017, 19:43
  4. Welcome to the Project CARS Forums!
    By Rob Prange in forum News & Announcements
    Replies: 147
    Last Post: 21-07-2015, 15:17
  5. CSR with Project Cars in PS4
    By The_KoiKoX in forum PS4 - Technical Help & Support
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-05-2015, 15:04

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •