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Thread: Jack Spade - FFB Tweaker Files

  1. #861
    Moderator Roger Prynne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonSyr View Post
    i understand that , but if I knew what each does , would not take me more than 10 minutes to do. Besides that is why I asked this.. not requested detailed description.
    So if i ever know what those make, i post it here with descriptions.

    sorry to bother you for this..

    for my other question

    i want to know what can change to have lighten wheel when the car slides and on brakes more HEAVY wheel .
    is possible that??

    thanks
    Have you read the guide?
    Addressing expectations on realism and simulation - Project CARS PC Leaderboards - Learn how to race properly - Forum Resources for Pcars
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A good explanation of the different tyre types - FFB Guide - Official FFB Guide - A new home for all your setups - How to use the Advance Search
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  2. #862
    Superkart Pilot DragonSyr's Avatar
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    ok, this is it . Someone who can complete the info???

    Code:
     <!-- Default force feedback tweakers. -->
    
    <config>
    	<value TopologyVersion="4" />
    
    	<value SpindleMasterScale="0.35" /> 	<!-- multiplier on all of the front tire forces. -->
    
    	<value SpindleArm="15.0" /> 				<!--SpindleArm is the angle, in degrees, of the attachment of the tie rod to the spindle.-->
    
    	<!--smoothing-->
    	<!--.................................................................................................................-->
    	<value SpindleFxScale="0.6" />				<!--Fx scale???-->
    	<value SpindleFxLoPass="0.2" />			<!--FxLoPass???-->
    
    	<value SpindleFyScale="0.27" />			<!--Fy Scale??-->
    	<value SpindleFyLoPass="0.0" />			<!--FyLoPass??-->
    
    	<value SpindleFzScale="1.4" />				<!--Fz Scale??-->
    	<value SpindleFzLoPass="0.0" />			<!--FzLopass??-->
    
    	<value SpindleMzScale="0.8" />				<!--Mz Scale??-->
    	<value SpindleMzLoPass="0.0" /> 			<!--MzLoPass???-->
    	<!--.................................................................................................................-->
    
    	<value SoPScale="0.35" />					<!--Overall scaling of Seat of Pants-->
    	
    	<value SoPLateral="0.8" /> 					<!--Scaling of the rear side load effect-->
    	<value SoPDifferential="1.4" /> 				<!--Scaling of the rear vertical load effect-->
    	<value SoPLoPass="0.0" /> 					<!--Smoothing of the Seat of Pants signal-->
    
    	<value RelativeGain="0.0" /> 					<!--scaling on the amount of calculated torque-->
    	<value RelativeBleed="0.0" />				<!--time value for bleeding absolute torque back in-->
    	<value RelativeClamp="0.0" />				<!--force to wheel value (so in the 0.0 to 1.0 range) where the non absolute running magnitude is clamped -->
    
    	<value ArmScale="0.0" />						<!--Ratio of incoming signal to pass through the arm simulation-->
    	<value ArmMass="10.0" />					<!--Mass of “arms”-->
    	<value ArmStiffness="1.0e7" />				<!--Springlike stiffness of the “arms"-->
    	<value ArmDamping="1.0" />					<!--multiplier on critical damping of whatever mass and stiffness is set-->
    
    	<value GutScale="0.0" /> 						<!--Magnitude of the gut simulation in FFB-->
    	<value GutLongScale="0.0" /> 				<!--Magnitude of longitudinal effect applied-->
    	<value GutMass="50.0" /> 					<!--mass of the simulated “gut”, which should not be the whole human body-->
    	<value GutStiffness="1.0e6" />
    	<value GutDamping="10.0" />
    
    	<value ScoopKnee="0.0" /> 					<!--The input force reduction below the knee-->
    	<value ScoopReduction="0.0" />
    
    	<value TightenCenterRange="0.0" />
    	<value TightenCenterFalloff="0.1" />
    
    	<value SoftClip="0.0" /> 						<!--The “half signal” for setting the soft clipper-->
       
    	<value BaseDrag="-0.0008" /> 				<!--resistance on the wheel as a function of wheel angular velocity-->
    	<value BaseDragSqr="0.0004" /> 			<!--resistance on the wheel as a function-->
    	<value BaseDragLoPass="0.04" /> 		<!--smoothing of the angular velocity for drag calculations-->
    
    	<value DisableDynamicSpring="true" />
    	<value DisableLockSpring="false" />
    	<value DisableSlowSpring="true" />
    	<value DisableScrub="true" />
    	<value DisableThrottleVibe="true" />
    	<value DisableJolt="true" />
    	<value DisableWheelSpin="true" />
    	<value DisableGearChange="true" />
    	<value DisableRumbleStrip="true" />
    
    </config>

  3. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonSyr View Post
    i understand that , but if I knew what each does , would not take me more than 10 minutes to do. Besides that is why I asked this.. not requested detailed description.
    So if i ever know what those make, i post it here with descriptions.

    sorry to bother you for this..

    for my other question

    i want to know what can change to have lighten wheel when the car slides and on brakes more HEAVY wheel .
    is possible that??

    thanks
    I answered this to a similar question a couple of days ago:

    Under steering = small amount of grip loss front tires, wheel should slightly feel lighter, right? Maximum grip loss, locking tires under heavy braking = maximum lightness on the wheel.
    Take this as reference. There´s only a small window in the range of 45°-90° wheel turning angle where you sometimes feel it slightly lighter, a very subtle effect which immediately gets
    covered up by side load forces. The 66% SopLateral version has much less Fy so the FFB character specially in the range of 45°-120° turning angle is more dynamic giving Mz a bit more space,
    in my opinion this is as close you can get. Note, angles depend on steering ratio, this is a GT car example.
    Also note, increasing or decreasing this or that don´t help anything it´s the ratio that matters.
    System: Win 7 Ultimate 64, i7 2600 @3.4 Ghz, Asus P8P67, 8GB Corsair, GTX 570 (Driver 344.75), Samsung 2443 @ 1920x1200, Fanatec CSW V2 (FW 176, Driver 250), CSP V2, Buttkicker/SimVibe

    V3.1 - FFB Tweaker Files here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...l=1#post891198
    The following user likes this Post: artao


  4. #864
    Superkart Pilot DragonSyr's Avatar
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    thank you very much Jack

  5. #865
    Moderator Roger Prynne's Avatar
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    FFB Guide

    Input Signals

    The four front tire input signals are the component parts of the whole tire induced torque coming
    through the rack. So if these are all scaled to the same thing (by convention 1.0), this is the
    same as straight rack torque.
    The two rear tire signals are to enable the Seats of Pants concept. Neither of these go through
    rack geometry though, as there is no rear rack and steering wheel. These just go straight to the
    seat.
    Finally, the G force signal is to enable the Gut physical simulation concept.

    Tire Force

    This is simply an overall multiplier on all of the input tire forces. Note that G forces, the input to Gut, are not
    scaled with this parameter. Note that the other FFB parameter in the Controller section is the
    same as the scaling in the driver. Reducing that does not help saturation, it simply reduces
    force.

    Spindle

    SpindleMasterScale

    This is a multiplier on all of the front tire forces. This was added to allow the following four scale
    to default to 1, and be more intuitively like “weights”.

    SpindleFxScale
    SpindleFyScale
    SpindleFzScale
    SpindleMzScale

    Individual scales on the components going through the spindle/rack. To get pure rack forces,
    leave these all at the same value. 1.0 is a convenient value for this, and use SpindleMasterScale
    to dial overall spindle force.

    SpindleFxLoPass
    SpindleFyLoPass
    SpindleFzLoPass
    SpindleMzLoPass

    Individual smoothing on the components going through the spindle/rack. Typically Fx requires
    more smoothing than the others. 0.0 is no smoothing. 1.0 is normalized to “really smooth but
    still some useful signal”. Values above 1.0 are valid.

    SpindleArm

    SpindleArm is the angle, in degrees, of the attachment of the tie rod to the spindle. Zero degrees
    means the tie rod is attached directly aft of the axis. That particular distance, how far aft, is not
    critical, because that just amounts to scale, which we adjust based on squeezing into the device
    range anyway. The angle though matters a lot in how the forces feel when the steering wheel is
    not straight.
    90 degrees is then with the tie rod directly inboard of the axis, which physically would result in the
    inability to steer. Realistic values I'd guess are between 0 and 45..

    Seat of Pants

    The basic idea of “Seat of Pants” is to present information from what is happening at the rear of
    the car through force feedback. There are two physical forces that are used. The rear side
    loads and the rear vertical loads.

    SoPScale

    Overall scaling of Seat of Pants

    SoPLateral

    Scaling of the rear side load effect.

    SoPDifferential

    Scaling of the rear vertical load effect, which is actually the difference between right and left
    vertical loads.

    SoPLoPass

    Smoothing of the Seat of Pants signal. 0.0 is no smoothing. 1.0 is normalized to “really smooth
    but still some useful signal”. Values above 1.0 are valid.

    Relative Torque Adjust

    The idea here is to present torque to the wheel based
    on the change in torque through time instead of as absolute torque. This means that with
    reasonable parameters, the wheel will never fully saturate. But unlike soft clipping (which can
    also prevent saturation), the high end torques do not get as heavily squeezed.
    There is one side effect to tune out though, and that is the wheel losing center over time. If all
    torque was completely via “Relative Torque Adjust”, centered torque would move around as the
    wheel goes through previously saturating torques. To prevent this, we use the bleed value to
    “bleed” absolute torque back into the mix.

    RelativeGain

    This is the scaling on the amount of calculated torque change that is applied. 1.0 is the intuitively
    correct value. 0.0 turns this component off.

    RelativeBleed

    This is a time value for bleeding absolute torque back in. 1.0s is a good starting point.

    RelativeClamp

    This is the force to wheel value (so in the 0.0 to 1.0 range) where the non absolute running
    magnitude is clamped. This does not clamp the overall value, and torques can still go above
    this, but it does exert a strong clamping effect. 1.0 is a good starting point for this. Values
    greater than 1.0 can make sense if soft clipping is also used. Values less than 1.0 makes sense
    to give some headroom for spikes to be a little more symmetrical around the clamp.
    Note that with this component on, and with clamp at 1.0 or less, and not too much bleed, there is
    no full saturation. What this means is that what was too much force before now becomes more
    force effects felt near full force. But this too can become too much, as that can start to
    overpower the more subtle unsaturated force range. So you still need to dial overall force (via
    Tire Force and the scales), but that scaling can become an interesting control, not just
    something to avoid saturation with.

    Gut Simulation

    This is a simulation of the G forces on the body of the driver. Basically, G forces move the body
    around via a physical simulation, and the result of that simulation is translated to force feedback.

    GutScale

    Magnitude of the gut simulation in FFB. 1.0 is normalized to “significant but not overpowering”.

    GutLongScale

    Magnitude of longitudinal effect applied. This is a scaling of the baseline lateral effect. At 0.0, the
    gut effect will be all based on lateral G’s. With non zero GutLongScale, under braking G’s, the
    lateral effect will increase, and under acceleration G’s the lateral effect will decrease.

    GutMass

    This is the mass of the simulated “gut”, which should not be the whole human body. It should be
    some lesser portion, roughly being the effective amount of mass not “locked down” rigid by the
    seat and seatbelts. This is a very fuzzy concept, so the number is really just a very rough
    ballpark number. This is fine, because the simulation is not overly sensitive to this number. It
    matters, but it is not extremely critical.
    The default is 50 kg.

    Arm Simulation

    The arm simulation simulates that the wheel is driven by a non rigid linkage, namely the driver’s
    arms, as well as play and mass in the linkages themselves.. However, this is done purely with
    force feedback. The position of the the controller still directly dictates the location of the
    simulation wheel.
    This simulation also serves as the main global smoothing stage.

    ArmScale

    Ratio of incoming signal to pass through the arm simulation. 0.0 if off. 1.0 is application of all
    incoming signal.

    ArmMass

    Mass of “arms”, with respect to simulation. This does not necessarily mean the average mass
    of two human arms. This is the effective mass with respect to the degree of freedom that is the
    wheel/controller.

    ArmStiffness

    Spring*like stiffness of the “arms”. Stiffer settings will pass through higher frequency
    information. Softer settings will smooth more.

    ArmDamping

    This is a multiplier on critical damping of whatever mass and stiffness is set. Therefore, 1.0
    means exactly critically damped.

    Soft Clipping

    This compresses all force within range of the wheel, although the stronger the force, the more it
    is squeezed into the higher force range. In some ways this is like Log Scaling, but Soft Clipping
    guarantees all signal will squeeze into the range, however compressed. On the other hand,
    approaching linear behavior is not implicit with soft clipping, as it can be with log scaling.

    SoftClip

    The “half signal” for setting the soft clipper. The value set here is the input signal that will
    become 0.5 as an output signal. Setting this to 0.0 turns the soft clipping off. Setting this to 0.5
    is maybe the closest approximation to linear while on, but is not linear. Setting this to 1.0 will
    match the derivative/slope of the output at zero input (so if you want the lowest forces to feel
    similar, and compress everything else). Therefore, less than 1.0 will amplify some lower force,
    and reduce larger forces. Greater than 1.0 will reduce all forces.

    SoftClipUnity

    Straight soft clipping will never reach full 1.0 magnitude, which means for lots of soft clipping
    scenarios, the full force of the wheel is never quite used, possibly to a noticeable level.
    SoftClipUnity sets the expected maximum force that will hit the soft clipper, and rescales such
    that that force outputs at 1.0 (full force of wheel). This means saturation may be reintroduced if
    this is set too low, but it is useful to fine tune output, especially when the soft clipper is used
    more for non*linear response than for anti*saturation. Setting this to 0.0 turns the unity re*scaling
    off.

    Scoop

    This is a new component, and is directly in response to some devices going flat in
    response at higher force levels. This is somewhat the opposite non*linear tool as the soft
    clipper, but is shaped differently, to better fit the nature of devices (and be easier to control).
    So what scoop does is reduce lower forces more and high forces less, thereby increasing the
    slope of force where some devices reduce the slope of force. Since devices seem to do this in
    two more or less linear regimes, with a knee in between, this is how this component works (in
    the opposite direction).

    ScoopKnee

    The input force level where the knee is at. If this is 0.0, this component is turned off.
    ScoopReduction
    The input force reduction below the knee. Above the knee, the force slope is increased such that
    at 1.0 input force, the output force is 1.0.

    Tighten Center

    Note that the name of this can be confusing. This has nothing to do with tightening the wheel
    about geometric top center. The “center” for this component means “zero force”, and has
    nothing to do with wheel position.
    The primary purpose of this is to remove wheel deadzones, but it can also be a shaping tool.

    TightenCenterRange

    This is the input force below which the output force is increased to remove a deadzone. Put
    more simply, this is the size of the deadzone you are trying to remove.

    TightenCenterFalloff

    This controls how sharply the output force approaches zero force as the input force goes below
    TightenCenterRange.

    Damping

    One use of damping can be to counter inherent drag in a device by using negative BaseDrag.
    However, often devices do not have linear inherent drag, so setting BaseDrag such that there is
    little to no device resistance at slow wheel speed will result in accelerating forces at higher wheel
    speeds. This can be fixed by also having some positive BaseDragSqr.
    A technique to set damping to cancel most device drag is to turn off ALL forces, Slow
    Speed Force, and TireForce) and adjust BaseDrag and BaseDragSqr such that the wheel stays
    the same speed or slows down ever so slightly (until it hits a stop) when you give it a good push
    at different rates. It seems better to have a tiny bit of drag left than to have the wheel accelerate
    on its own at any speed.

    BaseDrag

    This is resistance on the wheel as a function of wheel angular velocity.

    BaseDragSqr

    This is resistance on the wheel as a function of wheel angular velocity squared.

    BaseDragLoPass

    This is smoothing of the angular velocity for drag calculations. Raw position data on some
    devices can be noisy. Note that increasing smoothing can have a secondary apparent effect of
    increasing the effect of drag.
    Last edited by Roger Prynne; 31-05-2015 at 19:19.
    Addressing expectations on realism and simulation - Project CARS PC Leaderboards - Learn how to race properly - Forum Resources for Pcars
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A good explanation of the different tyre types - FFB Guide - Official FFB Guide - A new home for all your setups - How to use the Advance Search
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-970A-DS3P AMD 970 ATX | CPU: AMD FX-8350 4.0 GHz (4.20 GHz Turbo) 8x Core | CPU Cooler: Cooler Master V8 | Memory: 16GB DDR3 (1600MHz)
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    Storage: SSD 250GB Samsung 850 EVO x2 - 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green Sata III x2 | Sound: X-FI Xtreme Gamer Fatality Pro + 400W Technics 7.1
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  6. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerlvsbeer View Post
    Jack Spade.

    Thankyou so much for these FFB files. i sat down this morning for 6 hours, at one point after doing something with linkage settings my t300rs wheel found a mind of its own, and would start turning and banging around, when i braked fully or started a new game. all on its own.

    i got that issue worked out, and now and then i found some settings that felt ok, but i was getting a bit fed up and felt beaten by it, i knew it was going to take me a good number of days to get use to the settings maybe months.

    so when i heard about your files i jumped at the chance to try them out. and Ooooooo my Lord. WoW. incredible, thankyou so much, i couldnt have never got the force feedback working like this, absolutely insane i am loving it. had one go around monza and spa then had to come and tell you how greatful i am. i am greatful beyond words, i want your force feedback babies, amazing you are. i got your 1.5.1v for PC. i used folder 4 cause i like bumps. and i cant believe it, the game has exploded into realism.


    THANKYOU VERY MUCH JACK SPADE you are the force feedback God. Thankyou.
    Holy moly.... FFB god....that´s a bit over the top, but thanks for your nice reply.
    System: Win 7 Ultimate 64, i7 2600 @3.4 Ghz, Asus P8P67, 8GB Corsair, GTX 570 (Driver 344.75), Samsung 2443 @ 1920x1200, Fanatec CSW V2 (FW 176, Driver 250), CSP V2, Buttkicker/SimVibe

    V3.1 - FFB Tweaker Files here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...l=1#post891198

  7. #867
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    hi there. first of all: thank you Jack for putting so much time and effort into this tweak and share it with us.
    i tried all of your settings today and i have two problems:
    i know you have answered this in some way times before, but this answer doesn't really help me. I have no(!!) feeling of understeer. and this is proven by the ffb-meter in the hud. no change in ffb force when turning in a corner with constant speed and steering way to much. you can hear the tyres and see that the car understeers, but no effect in ffb.
    i remember, i was playing around with ffb twaeker files during wmd development and could even loose all ffb force when loosing grip at the front (understeer). this is of course too much, but this means it should be possible to generate an usable understeer-effect.

    the second thing and far not so importnat thing is the deadzone removeal. even if i set it to 0.01 it washes out so many other effects i really cant use it. yes, it feels better around the center, but it only feels like a fake damping effect. so for now i will stay without deadzone removeal, so i can feel the ffb effects better.

    can you tell me which parameter i have to tweak for better understeer feeling. for now i have really no understeer feeling at all. this is really pitty.

    oh, and before i forget it. with all 4 ffb options from your side i get really low forces. way lower than default. is there any way to change that? i know you tried to avoid clipping at first, but it seems to me that my old g25 needs some clipping, so i can feel at least something.

    thanks for answering!
    Last edited by Fabian Baumgarten; 31-05-2015 at 18:50.
    Fabian Baumgarten formerly known as schumi170388 (steam-ID)

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  8. #868
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    Am I crazy, or is it just my wheel? So I played for a few days with the FFB tweaker files, and something just felt off, like the FFB was totally weak, like I was hovering over the road instead of my wheels being connected to it. I could feel what the car was doing, but it wasn't very satisfying.

    I have a Fanatec GT3 RS v2, and I know it's capable of a lot more force than that. So I applied the (A) settings in the OP, which still wasn't enough. Bumped the tire force up to 200 (!), and it was still pretty weak. So what I've been doing is changing the tweaker files for each car, bumping the master scale and SOP scale up from like 0.3, to 1.0 and above, sometimes up to 2.5/3.0.

    Is this not normal? It sure feels better that way, even though I know there is probably some clipping going on. At least it feels like I'm driving a car now, and not a hovercraft. I can still feel when the back end steps out, even if it's a little later. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing, or is it just me?

    On a side note, I did place an order for the Accu-force, but probably won't ship for a few months. Hopefully it will work well with PCars.

  9. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabian Baumgarten View Post
    hi there. first of all: thank you Jack for putting so much time and effort into this tweak and share it with us.
    i tried all of your settings today and i have two problems:
    i know you have answered this in some way times before, but this answer doesn't really help me. I have no(!!) feeling of understeer. and this is proven by the ffb-meter in the hud. no change in ffb force when turning in a corner with constant speed and steering way to much. you can hear the tyres and see that the car understeers, but no effect in ffb.
    i remember, i was playing around with ffb twaeker files during wmd development and could even loose all ffb force when loosing grip at the front (understeer). this is of course too much, but this means it should be possible to generate an usable understeer-effect.

    the second thing and far not so importnat thing is the deadzone removeal. even if i set it to 0.01 it washes out so many other effects i really cant use it. yes, it feels better around the center, but it only feels like a fake damping effect. so for now i will stay without deadzone removeal, so i can feel the ffb effects better.

    can you tell me which parameter i have to tweak for better understeer feeling. for now i have really no understeer feeling at all. this is really pitty.

    oh, and before i forget it. with all 4 ffb options from your side i get really low forces. way lower than default. is there any way to change that? i know you tried to avoid clipping at first, but it seems to me that my old g25 needs some clipping, so i can feel at least something.

    thanks for answering!
    Answered in post #866.

    Under steering = small amount of grip loss front tires, wheel should slightly feel lighter, right? Maximum grip loss, locking tires under heavy braking = maximum lightness on the wheel.
    Take this as reference. There´s only a small window in the range of 45°-90° wheel turning angle where you sometimes feel it slightly lighter, a very subtle effect which immediately gets
    covered up by side load forces. The 66% SopLateral version has much less Fy so the FFB character specially in the range of 45°-120° turning angle is more dynamic giving Mz a bit more space,
    in my opinion this is as close you can get. Note, angles depend on steering ratio, this is a GT car example.
    Also note, increasing or decreasing this or that don´t help anything it´s the ratio that matters.
    Default FFB normalized all forces at 100, that´s not something I would call a proper setting but if feels stronger than my files. For a wheel like yours you should use one of my FFB compression
    settings see first page.
    System: Win 7 Ultimate 64, i7 2600 @3.4 Ghz, Asus P8P67, 8GB Corsair, GTX 570 (Driver 344.75), Samsung 2443 @ 1920x1200, Fanatec CSW V2 (FW 176, Driver 250), CSP V2, Buttkicker/SimVibe

    V3.1 - FFB Tweaker Files here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...l=1#post891198

  10. #870
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    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by mattcwell View Post
    Am I crazy, or is it just my wheel? So I played for a few days with the FFB tweaker files, and something just felt off, like the FFB was totally weak, like I was hovering over the road instead of my wheels being connected to it. I could feel what the car was doing, but it wasn't very satisfying.

    I have a Fanatec GT3 RS v2, and I know it's capable of a lot more force than that. So I applied the (A) settings in the OP, which still wasn't enough. Bumped the tire force up to 200 (!), and it was still pretty weak. So what I've been doing is changing the tweaker files for each car, bumping the master scale and SOP scale up from like 0.3, to 1.0 and above, sometimes up to 2.5/3.0.

    Is this not normal? It sure feels better that way, even though I know there is probably some clipping going on. At least it feels like I'm driving a car now, and not a hovercraft. I can still feel when the back end steps out, even if it's a little later. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing, or is it just me?

    On a side note, I did place an order for the Accu-force, but probably won't ship for a few months. Hopefully it will work well with PCars.
    Have you downloaded the latest driver?
    System: Win 7 Ultimate 64, i7 2600 @3.4 Ghz, Asus P8P67, 8GB Corsair, GTX 570 (Driver 344.75), Samsung 2443 @ 1920x1200, Fanatec CSW V2 (FW 176, Driver 250), CSP V2, Buttkicker/SimVibe

    V3.1 - FFB Tweaker Files here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...l=1#post891198

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