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Thread: FFB Tuning (my thoughts..)

  1. #1
    WMD Member Timo Koskela's Avatar
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    FFB Tuning (my thoughts..)

    Hi, here's a copy-paste of the thread I started @WMD. Maybe this helps someone, and if so leave a comment!


    ..need to finish this still as real life got in the way of playing games. Some day!


    So this is just my thoughts, nothing "official" about them.. as you all know by now, there is a million way to adjust FFB in pcars so you need to start somewhere..


    Btw, I drive with an old G25 on a PC - just so you know.


    Have fun!


    p.s. Feel free to post suggestions / comments what you feel is right / wrong here..


    Always post your platform and wheel when you comment!


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    Available parameters, and my interpretation of their meaning (correct me if I'm off, these descriptions are intentionally only based on the feel I've gotten out of them, not anything out of devs mouths):


    CONTROLS/CONFIGURATION:

    • (B1) force feedback - Overall strength level. Set this first, it's a good idea to leave some adjustment room if you want later come back to this. Imo anything between 80-95 is a good starting point and still allows you to go higher after everything else is done.

    CONTROLS/CONTROL SCHEME/CALIBRATE FORCE FEEDBACK:

    • (B2) tire force - how strongly the forces the tire feels are transmitted to the FFB. Set this as the second thing, for a basic FFB tuning anything between 100 - 130 is fine.
    • (B3) per wheel movement - negative value will make rotating the wheel easier against forces. A positive value will add "friction" to the wheel movement, so even if there is not a substantial pure tire force being felt as a "resistance" on the steering wheel, you will feel one. This should imo be a parameter you could tweak individually per car.
    • (A) pre wheel movement squared -
    • (A) wheel position smoothing -
    • (A) deadzone removal range -
    • (A) deadzone removel falloff -
    • (A) linkage scale -
    • (A) linkage stiffness -
    • (A) linkage damping -
    • (A) relative adjust gain -
    • (A) relative adjust bleed -
    • (A) relative adjust clamp -
    • (A) scoop knee -
    • (A) scoop reduction -
    • (A) soft clipping (half input) -
    • (A) soft clipping (full output) -

    SESSION/TUNING SETUP/FORCE FEEDBACK (car & track specific):


    SPINDLE:

    • (B4) master scale - A value that will multiply the individual scales. Useful tip: Using a low master scale and correspondingly making the individual scales higher will make the FFB feel less "rattly", but at the same time you will lose a bit of sharpness, so there is a golden middle point somewhere. Using a high Master scale and low individual scales is another option, but you will get a lot of rattling/spikes on the FFB. On some cars/tires this can be a useful trick though.
    • (B6) Fx scale (longitudinal forces) - Unless you use really much of this, you will mainly notice this as an added "noise" on the FFB when you hit kerbs etc. Higher amounts of Fx will make the steering wheel counter steer automatically against the slide, but will also make the steering movement on normal cornering feel heavier.
    • (B7) Fy scale (lateral forces) - You feel this mainly as a force that acts against your steering movement. Very easy to use too much and over saturate the feel making the FFB feel dull.
    • (B8) Fz scale (vertical forces) - Easiest to notice as a force that turns the wheel in the direction of the turning. Kind of acts as a "counter force" against Fy, so sometimes when you have too much Fy, adding a bit more of Fz can make the wheel feel lighter again while turning (a risk of saturating the FFB signal though if you just keep adding these on top of each others to compensate).
    • (B5) Mz scale (twisting forces) - Allows you to feel "grip level". Loosing grip will untwist the tires rubber, so adjusting this as high as is possible without creating the "center step" will help you feel better what the car is doing.
    • As a general note for all of the above (Mz, Fx, Fy, Fz), when you start to feel a distinctive FFB step/notch near the center of the wheel, you have too much of something there (or too much of all of them ). Or then you might have just a "dull feel" -> then start to go lower starting with Fy.
    • (B9) Fx smoothing - Smooths Fx induced FFB spikes.
    • (B9) Fy smoothing - Smooths Fy induced FFB spikes.
    • (B9) Fz smoothing - Smooths Fz induced FFB spikes.
    • (B9) Mz smoothing - Smooths Mz induced FFB spikes.
    • ^imo using smoothing feels a bit "artificial", but on some tires (like Lotus 49 old ones for example) these can be really useful. The need for using these will also greatly depend how you have configured the FFB otherwise. Think of these as a kind of "last reserve" for curing the excessive FFB spikes. Imo better use first a lower master scale and higher individual scales and see if that helps enough for the rattliness.

    BODY & SOP:

    • (A) body scale -
    • (A) body longitudinal scale -
    • (A) body stiffness -
    • (A) body damping -
    • (A) SOP scale -
    • (A) SOP lateral scale -
    • (A) SOP differential scale -
    • (A) SOP damping -

    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    (B)FFB tuning - basics:

    • leave all the advanced (A) parameters to default
    • (B1) FFB to preferred level, 90 is a good value to start with
    • (B2) check the tire force is at a reasonable level. 115 is a good start value.
    • (B3) get familiar with "per wheel movement" value, try with minimum value and then with maximum value before actually adjusting it. I assume personal preferences differ on this a lot. Also, the car & tire combo has big meaning on what value here feels good. 0.00 is a safe bet, even though personally I like to keep this a tiny bit on the positive side. As an example, using a high negative value on street cars can make the feel a bit lost. Again, imo this should be a parameter we could adjust & save on per car basis.
    • (B4) adjust to preferred value. See the descriptive text. For a base tuning you can put this to 50.
    • (B5) Put all other individual scales to zero. Then start adding Mz, doesn't really matter where you start, just go by feel.. for example, drive for a while with a maximum value (200) to see the effect. Then lower until you find that sweet spot where you have no "center step/notch", only smooth transition from center to a bigger steering angle. Mz will give you that good "grip changing feel" on the corners / crests etc. I would suggest trying to get this as high as you feel comfortable with and don't get the "issues" of a too high value.
    • (B6) Add Fx. For a starting value I'd suggest anything between 0.8-1.2 x Mz. On a small scale, Fx only creates a nice noise and feel to the FFB, putting in relatively big values can cause some issues like really heavy steering while "grip cornering".. but play around, this is a safe value to fiddle around with. Relatively difficult to ruin the FFB with Fx.
    • (B7) With Fy, try with max value at first to see how all the feel has been drowned and the FFB is totally over saturated. So after that find a value you still can feel the Mz twisting, but also have your preferred feel while turning in to corners.
    • (B8) Add Fz, this is harder to notice but you can play around with it at first trying very high and low values. This will be felt clearly when braking so take notice. I prefer usually something like ~2 x Fy. A nice test is to only run with 200 Fz and at least then you'll notice the effect. See the descriptive text above.
    • ^finding the preferred combo of the scales takes some trial & error, but when you start with Mz you hardly can go wrong in the end. Just play around with all of them, and imo testing each individually at max value while having others at zero is a good idea, just to get the true meanings into your mind. And be aware of not over saturating the FFB feed and also creating that step near center. To desaturate the feel, lower the Fy first, then Fz, Fx, Mz. If you get 'lost', just start again and go with smaller steps
    • (B9) If you have a good value for a certain scale, but it causes rattling/clipping spikes on the FFB screen, you can add the corresponding smoother for the force. Use as little as possible to maintain maximum detail & feel.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    (A)FFB tuning - advanced:

    • ..
    • ..

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Issues and possible ways to fix:
    < FFB oversaturated > Turn all spindle/individual scalers to zero. Add these back individually until satisfied. One good order to do this in: Mz -> Fx -> Fy -> Fz. The most important thing is to start with Mz so you have pure feel for what it does.




    Exemplary FFB adjustments:

    • ..
    • ..
    • ..

    Experimental ways of tuning FFB in Project CARS:

    • ..
    • ..

    CAR specific FFB settings:

    • ..
    • ..

    DEFAULTS:
    a.k.a. Timppaq - GT Academy 2013 Silverstone Race Camp finalist.

    Fractal Design Define R4 case (650W) |MSI Military Class 3 Z77 MotherB (USB 3.0, Sata 6Gb/s) |MSI nVidia GeForce GTX680 (2GB GDDR5) |Intel Core i7 3770k (3.5GHz) |Antec Kühler 620 water cooling for CPU | Kingston HyperX 4x4GB DDR3 (1600Mhz) | 120Gb Kingston HyperX 3K SSD | 1TB SATA 7200rpm | Windows 7 Home premium (64b) | Samsung SyncMaster 226BW (1650x1050) | G25 | DX11 | Xbox360 pad






  2. #2
    Moderator Aldo Zampatti's Avatar
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    I'll add them to my sticky list
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    Core i7 4700HQ - nVidia 970M - 16GB RAM - (Laptop)
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    The following 2 users likes this Post: Sir_Stig, Timo Koskela


  3. #3
    WMD Member Timo Koskela's Avatar
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    here's one example vid, what kind of ffb graph you should be aiming for imo

    a.k.a. Timppaq - GT Academy 2013 Silverstone Race Camp finalist.

    Fractal Design Define R4 case (650W) |MSI Military Class 3 Z77 MotherB (USB 3.0, Sata 6Gb/s) |MSI nVidia GeForce GTX680 (2GB GDDR5) |Intel Core i7 3770k (3.5GHz) |Antec Kühler 620 water cooling for CPU | Kingston HyperX 4x4GB DDR3 (1600Mhz) | 120Gb Kingston HyperX 3K SSD | 1TB SATA 7200rpm | Windows 7 Home premium (64b) | Samsung SyncMaster 226BW (1650x1050) | G25 | DX11 | Xbox360 pad





    The following user likes this Post: Sir_Stig


  4. #4
    Kart Driver
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    Very nice information Tks from Brasil
    i will try on my g27

  5. #5
    Superkart Pilot Fre.Mo's Avatar
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    Great post, thank you.
    I will particularly test the differents options: high master scale/low individual forces vs. low master scale/high individual forces. I thought these two settings were equivalent when the product of the two parameters was equal.

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