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Thread: Statement on the Frontpage of ProjectCars is a Slap in the Face of every clean racer!

  1. #1
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    Statement on the Frontpage of ProjectCars is a Slap in the Face of every clean racer!

    "Hey all, so there were two main items that had to be addressed before the Championship Standings could be updated this time around and we thought there should be full visibility of them...

    Firstly an internal technical issue prevented us from retrieving the leaderboards on PlayStation 4. This meant we could not verify the logs for over a week but this has since been rectified. Whilst we could have done it 'by hand', we want to assure all participants that we never rely solely on this and always prefer to work from the cold, hard stats and then verify that they match what players are seeing within the interface of the actual game itself.

    Secondly though - and most importantly - we were unable to verify the times posted by members of SDL Motorsport on Xbox One due to a lack of ghost data being available. As has been stated multiple times, any suspicious or fraudulent times posted will be investigated. In this particular case, the times posted by SDL Motorsport were significantly faster than those posted on other platforms by other teams and individuals which warranted action being taken.

    Without ghost data being available, we worked with SDL Motorsport to provide video evidence of their laps with the hope that we could see whether excessive track cutting was used, especially on chicanes and on the large run-off area approaching the grandstand at the Le Mans circuit.

    With community discussions already occurring on improvements to the track cutting system coming soon in Feature Update 2.0 and with the understanding from SDL Motorsport that their intentions are not to cheat the system the decision is that their times will be included for this round, however we have now introduced a new requirement that all participants must submit ghost data in order to allow us to verify times in future.

    Pro gamers are the aspirational players we all look up to and therefore as public figures they should be both proud and eager to showcase their skills for all to see. By providing their ghost data for others to view it also encourages healthy competition as 'tricks of the trade' can be learned more players to reach faster times and higher Championship Standings positions.

    We hope that this rule change, together with significant updates to the track cutting system, and continual monitoring of times posted will ensure a healthy, reliable, competitive environment going forward. And we'll continue to work with both the community at large and the eSport teams to achieve this."


    So why is this statement a Slap to the Face of all honest Racers?

    Before I start explaining this and why I am doing this thread. I want first to make clear this one should not turn into a flamewar. You can discuss everything here but I will try to keep this my statement as serious as possible and please everyone else should try to do so. There are a lot of threads about this Topic which are obviously heated and you can get your flamewars there.

    So first of all the current situation with a few facts:

    • The championship is abused by cutters cheaters wallriders and exploiters (pitstop exploits) since round 1
    • Nevertheless they were given Points from round 1 till now.
    • This leads to every clean racer abandoning the championship meaning they have no competetion.
    • A few rounds were re-Run but not all.
    • Some ghosts got deleted but not all
    • There are no visible track limits but it was stated that cutting is not allowed
    • After that Statement there were still given points to the cheating/cutting guys



    So now to my questions to the Dev's

    You know the issue. Why not stopping the championship at its current state where only cutting and cheating gives you a top spot?
    Don't you think it is bad for the development of the game as an Esport title?
    Why did you re-Run only 2 rounds?
    Why did you re-Run them at all when you knew there would be cuts again.
    Why are you glorifying all these obvious cutters and cheating guys on your start page of your game?


    Then now to the Statement after I read it I could not believe it. You know how easy it is to corrupt your ghost and that it needs to be done on purpose and everyone else who was slower was already cutting like hell. So you can be sure they cut and still you are counting their times and you stated multiple times that cutting will not be tolerated. But you are still doing this. It is a slap in the Face for all clean and fair racers out there and it lets me loose all my hope of this title beeing an esport title anytime soon. Which I think it could be. I think there is a huge market for a good looking Simracing Esport title and project cars could make this happen. It needs a bit polish like a better replay system etc but it could be really good. Also in your statement about PC2 there were some very cool features for an Esport Title but if you continue like that there will be no community for that to happen.

    Also as you could see in the latest TT the guys who you led get away with all that cutting and cheating are not even the fastest guys. I can promise you there are a lot faster guys than me out there and I still managed to beat all the cutters and cheaters (so called Pro Players in your statement) in my first try in a TT in this game. So why am I complaining that much? I am hoping this game makes a step into Esports but with the current championship I do not see that happening.

    What is my solution?

    I know that fixing the Tracklimits can be really hard and also hosting every Esportevent even if it is a TT is super hard as there are always people trying to exploit your game. I have a Bachelor degree in computer science so I know that the Track cutting fixes are very hard to implement without destroying onlineraces and AI. Also I was active in the Dota and WOW arena PRoscene and know that some players will do everything to exploit and cheat but this needs to be handled in a way which tells the normal player that this is not tolerated. So instead of handling the so called "Pros" with kid gloves and letting them get away with everything there should be another solution. What you are doing now just makes the game just completly uninteresting for Esport as a whole.

    Again what is my solution:

    Stop the championship and Reset all points until there is a somewhat clear and fair tracklimit in the game.
    When you restart the championship make clear that every cheating and cutting or exploiting will not be tolerated.
    If it happens instantly delete the time and ban the driver or organisation from the championship. (You are having Esport on your main page as a Tab so please start acting like you would care)
    Do not give away any prices anymore to guys who cheated in this championship as it would really give this game a bad taste when it starts like that. I would go that far cancel the Championship and start again for round 2.


    You also need to setup clear Rules that you need to accept when entering an Event in which is stated that cutting and cheating will not be tolerated so you can actually do something about it. It is very important if you want a title to be an esport title that the Pro Players have a connection to the casuals. But right now the so called "Pros" are the cheating guys and no one is interessted in their skills and there wont be a competetive scene because of that and SMS is the company who lets everyone away with abusing cheating etc


    Edit: I also want to add that corrupting you ghost to let noone see how much you cut has nothing to do with cutting or tracklimits or this discussion it is just cheating. There should not be a second chance for that and if you count in your statment that cutting should not be tolerated you are giving them a third chance as they already ignored that statement. Is this the kind of people you want to represent the game on a professional level?
    Last edited by arveena; 26-06-2015 at 23:35.
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  2. #2
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    Ghost data available requirement, I thought that was automated so if you do a really fast time and it doesn't upload, you are basically done for? So far times deleted seem to be a game glitch, not exploiting and don't get to run the event again as time is only deleted after even if requested to be deleted during the event (Not very fair at all). Now it seems people who are unlucky enough for ghost data not to be uploaded will be punished and if it is a good lap will be hard to beat with a new lap that may / may not upload. People who intently go out to not drive on track get rewarded with prizes and points even if they are told they won't be.

    Anyway I could have said it a lot fewer words that new statement. "Cheaters prosper."

    Says on same page:

    UPDATE 27TH MAY - Times achieved through tactics that would have incurred a penalty in real life will henceforth be ignored. Additionally, further improvements to the Track Cutting system are currently in progress with the aim of nullifying the ability to shortcut chicanes and 'wall-ride' around armco.
    What happened is they went out of their way to ensure them times stood. What is point of talking about rule change when each time the people who follow it are the ones who get punished and the ones who don't get rewarded. Would be easier to say, any form of cheating goes in this eSports competition as long as the game allows it apart from unfortunate game glitches, then it is tough luck.

  3. #3
    Superkart Pilot danpinho's Avatar
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    The OP is right. I'm too old for this and I have suspended all and any online events or even TT.
    I'm loosing interest in MP races either. This is not even close to what I call a fair gameplay. Let's see what 2.0 brings. I love this game but it need some improvements and track boudaries is one of them.
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  4. #4
    GT4 Pilot Pink_650S's Avatar
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    Agreed.
    You cant have a competition with prizes on the line, when cheating is involved.
    1996: Super Nintendo l 1998: Nintendo 64 l 1999: PlayStation l 2001: PlayStation 2 l 2007: PlayStation 3 l 2011: Nintendo 3DS l 2014: PlayStation 4
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  5. #5
    Umer Ahmad
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    Note from the 2.0Patch log

    * Track cutting tolerances reduced on all tracks where it was too forgiving.

    Maybe some help is on the way here?
    The following 3 users likes this Post: danpinho, FA RACING 01, Wizards ZA


  6. #6
    Superkart Pilot danpinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umer Ahmad View Post
    Note from the 2.0Patch log
    * Track cutting tolerances reduced on all tracks where it was too forgiving.
    Maybe some help is on the way here?
    It clearly seems to me that PCars studio is moving towards the improvement of this game.
    I thank you for that.
    The following 5 users likes this Post: Andy Tudor, Pink_650S, V12 GForce1, Wizards ZA


  7. #7
    GT4 Pilot Pink_650S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umer Ahmad View Post
    Note from the 2.0Patch log

    * Track cutting tolerances reduced on all tracks where it was too forgiving.

    Maybe some help is on the way here?
    Maybe is the right word tbh.
    As much as l appreciate the team's work and effort, l only believe the improvements when l see them.
    Because 1.4 promised a lot too, but couldnt keep some of them.
    1996: Super Nintendo l 1998: Nintendo 64 l 1999: PlayStation l 2001: PlayStation 2 l 2007: PlayStation 3 l 2011: Nintendo 3DS l 2014: PlayStation 4
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  8. #8
    Umer Ahmad
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    Quote Originally Posted by danpinho View Post
    It clearly seems to me that PCars studio is moving towards the improvement of this game.
    I thank you for that.

    Let me tell you all something: They see everything written here. If it's important to the community they will do their best to support it.
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  9. #9
    GT4 Pilot Pink_650S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umer Ahmad View Post
    Let me tell you all something: They see everything written here. If it's important to the community they will do their best to support it.
    I dont think any serious member of the Project Cars community questions this.
    1996: Super Nintendo l 1998: Nintendo 64 l 1999: PlayStation l 2001: PlayStation 2 l 2007: PlayStation 3 l 2011: Nintendo 3DS l 2014: PlayStation 4
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  10. #10
    Kart Driver
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umer Ahmad View Post
    Note from the 2.0Patch log

    * Track cutting tolerances reduced on all tracks where it was too forgiving.

    Maybe some help is on the way here?
    I hope that but the main part of the post is not about the cutting there are millions of post about it and of course I read the Patchnotes. It is about how the situation gets handled and how actual cheating and misleading etc is tolerated. Because that is what happend not cutting it was deliberately fooling the community and the Dev's and they still got away with it. (The Ghost corruption is just a step over the line that is not exploiting that is cheating)
    Also this championship is no longer maintainable with all the cutting and cheating involved in the first rounds .R eally bad press in my opinion for this game as an esport.
    I am not calling for any sort of punishment here. I am just saying this championship is not maintainable and if the so called "Pro" players can prove themselves under fair conditions I am fine with that but not with the current state. Even though I would have handled the situation different it is now the situation we are in and I am just searching for options to keep this "Esport" somewhat alive. As you can see at the moment the fast and clean drivers are not interested at all in this championship.

    Also this post has nothing to do with the game and the development of the game as a whole. The game is great the patches are great. The work of the team is great. Communicaton is normaly very well done. It is just the Esportpart were it seems they are lacking something maybe experience I don't know but there were some questionable decisions which upset a lot of people and I was just giving "advice" as I already did some sort of Esport and I am also somewhat involved at it at work.
    Every Game has its cheater exploiter etc in the first days or weeks of its lifetime. It is how you handle that what makes a difference in the longterm succes of an "Esport" title. The top guys should be under harder restrictions than the casual not the other way around. Trackmania for example has its own subculture for cutting and exploiting but if a "Pro" does somes sort of cut or exploit in an actual tournament they are done. They can do that in their freetime when no one watches but not in a "championship"
    Last edited by arveena; 26-06-2015 at 23:13.
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