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Thread: G29 Discussions, Plus Support and Settings

  1. #11
    GT5 Pilot
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    I'll just give a short answer because my head is burnt. Bathroom renovation 1, Poirqc 0.

    IMHO, the most critical setting is the DRR. Thank god it's the easier to dial. Afterwards, you take care of clipping by messing with Tire Force. When those 2 steps are done. The rest could be a matter of taste, to an extent. You could also check if you moved the wheel so that pCars calibrated it at 900.

    With the values you have, it would probably be a good time to start to tune thing in the garage instead.

    If it feels good now to you, id say you're golden!
    The following 2 users likes this Post: F1Aussie


  2. #12
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    Are you sure you're calculating scoop correctly? The way I've been doing it, that's a very aggressive setting that removes a large portion of your range.

    ie. At the knee (0.38). A reduction of 0.38 results in an output force of zero.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by skoader View Post
    Are you sure you're calculating scoop correctly? The way I've been doing it, that's a very aggressive setting that removes a large portion of your range.

    ie. At the knee (0.38). A reduction of 0.38 results in an output force of zero.
    Actually, i'm not 100% sure about how scoops get calculated. As i said elsewhere, when i'll get some time, i'll do a post asking SMS how scoops works, explaining different theories i gathered with the help other forum members.

    Right now it's how i see it:

    Scoops(Knee/reduction) probably works in percent. 0 to 1 = 0% to 100%

    Scoop Knee reduce force only below(before) the knee. Above(after), it's 1:1. So as you can see in the graph, the change in force responce(the knee) is at 38 percent of the wheel working range. So the knee is just that.

    For the Scoop Reduction, You saw i draw 2 perfect linear lines. Well, if the wheel had a perfect linear responce, the output force should be those lines. So at the knee, we need to lower the output X% so the output of the wheel matches that value. If the Reduction was at 1, you would be right, at 0.38, the output would be 0. However, if i pick the blue line in the graph, you can see the wheel ouput 80 when it should output 40. Hence the 0.49 Reduction. After that point, each forces are 1:1 so the remaining top 62% FFB output doesn't get changed.

    What do you think?

    Edit - the best feature we could have would be a built-in Linear Force Test in pCars that would take into account Deadzones Removals and Scoops. You could move those values, do a test and see how it change the wheel FFB response.
    Last edited by poirqc; 23-07-2015 at 01:41.
    The following 2 users likes this Post: Lars Rosenquist, RomKnight


  4. #14
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    If anybody has a sec to explain and has a good grasp of these info I was wondering how is the linearity graph made and what exactly does it represent? I'm guessing with the iracing tool? Is there somewhere this information is discussed?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by junnicutt View Post
    If anybody has a sec to explain and has a good grasp of these info I was wondering how is the linearity graph made and what exactly does it represent? I'm guessing with the iracing tool? Is there somewhere this information is discussed?
    There's a bunch of info in that thread

  6. #16
    rocafella1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by poirqc View Post
    I'll just give a short answer because my head is burnt. Bathroom renovation 1, Poirqc 0.

    IMHO, the most critical setting is the DRR. Thank god it's the easier to dial. Afterwards, you take care of clipping by messing with Tire Force. When those 2 steps are done. The rest could be a matter of taste, to an extent. You could also check if you moved the wheel so that pCars calibrated it at 900.

    With the values you have, it would probably be a good time to start to tune thing in the garage instead.

    If it feels good now to you, id say you're golden!
    understood with DRR, what do I do though when I am reducing Tire Force (now at 49) and clipping is almost gone, but I feel like the FFB or "feeling" is gone now (i run Jack Spade Classic) could I here to compensate for low tire force values use Master and SoP Scale higher? (to make it "feel" better again)?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by poirqc View Post
    Actually, i'm not 100% sure about how scoops get calculated. As i said elsewhere, when i'll get some time, i'll do a post asking SMS how scoops works, explaining different theories i gathered with the help other forum members.

    Right now it's how i see it:

    Scoops(Knee/reduction) probably works in percent. 0 to 1 = 0% to 100%

    Scoop Knee reduce force only below(before) the knee. Above(after), it's 1:1. So as you can see in the graph, the change in force responce(the knee) is at 38 percent of the wheel working range. So the knee is just that.

    For the Scoop Reduction, You saw i draw 2 perfect linear lines. Well, if the wheel had a perfect linear responce, the output force should be those lines. So at the knee, we need to lower the output X% so the output of the wheel matches that value. If the Reduction was at 1, you would be right, at 0.38, the output would be 0. However, if i pick the blue line in the graph, you can see the wheel ouput 80 when it should output 40. Hence the 0.49 Reduction. After that point, each forces are 1:1 so the remaining top 62% FFB output doesn't get changed.

    What do you think?
    That's quite different to how I've been doing it. If I'm understanding correctly you seem to be using the reduction value as a percentage by which to reduce rotation delta. 26% - 49% to bring it down between your linear lines.

    A couple of problems I see with that -
    The scoop function in game has no concept of wheel deltas and is working purely with forces. There isn't a linear 1:1 relationship between the two. ie. Reducing forces by 50% won't reduce the wheel delta by the same 50%. As your graph shows, The force required to hit 80 is 0.38. To hit 40 requires a force of 0.28.

    I think that's the main difference to our approach. I'm using reduction as the literal amount that forces are reduced by directly below the knee. Another thing - I don't think forces are 1:1 past the knee. They do however scale up so that an input force of 1 will output as 1.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Scoop.jpg 
Views:	636 
Size:	53.5 KB 
ID:	213095
    I'm not sure that forces are simply lerped from the knee out to the extents (0-1) as this graph implies though.

    Will do some more testing today.
    The following 3 users likes this Post: RomKnight, Schnizz58


  8. #18
    rocafella1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by skoader View Post
    That's quite different to how I've been doing it. If I'm understanding correctly you seem to be using the reduction value as a percentage by which to reduce rotation delta. 26% - 49% to bring it down between your linear lines.

    A couple of problems I see with that -
    The scoop function in game has no concept of wheel deltas and is working purely with forces. There isn't a linear 1:1 relationship between the two. ie. Reducing forces by 50% won't reduce the wheel delta by the same 50%. As your graph shows, The force required to hit 80 is 0.38. To hit 40 requires a force of 0.28.

    I think that's the main difference to our approach. I'm using reduction as the literal amount that forces are reduced by directly below the knee. Another thing - I don't think forces are 1:1 past the knee. They do however scale up so that an input force of 1 will output as 1.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Scoop.jpg 
Views:	636 
Size:	53.5 KB 
ID:	213095
    I'm not sure that forces are simply lerped from the knee out to the extents (0-1) as this graph implies though.

    Will do some more testing today.
    let me please know if you find out more, or if you have other values to fine tune the G29, or of there are values you recommend using, DEFAULT setting has major clipping on all Jack Spade settings, I don't know how that wheel was tuned...??? one thing I know, still need to find tune this wheel, just tiny bit of clipping still, but just have no clue about FFB, I have read all the threads, guides, tutorials and explanations and am still not understanding it...

  9. #19
    rocafella1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by poirqc View Post
    Actually, i'm not 100% sure about how scoops get calculated. As i said elsewhere, when i'll get some time, i'll do a post asking SMS how scoops works, explaining different theories i gathered with the help other forum members.

    Right now it's how i see it:

    Scoops(Knee/reduction) probably works in percent. 0 to 1 = 0% to 100%

    Scoop Knee reduce force only below(before) the knee. Above(after), it's 1:1. So as you can see in the graph, the change in force responce(the knee) is at 38 percent of the wheel working range. So the knee is just that.

    For the Scoop Reduction, You saw i draw 2 perfect linear lines. Well, if the wheel had a perfect linear responce, the output force should be those lines. So at the knee, we need to lower the output X% so the output of the wheel matches that value. If the Reduction was at 1, you would be right, at 0.38, the output would be 0. However, if i pick the blue line in the graph, you can see the wheel ouput 80 when it should output 40. Hence the 0.49 Reduction. After that point, each forces are 1:1 so the remaining top 62% FFB output doesn't get changed.

    What do you think?

    Edit - the best feature we could have would be a built-in Linear Force Test in pCars that would take into account Deadzones Removals and Scoops. You could move those values, do a test and see how it change the wheel FFB response.
    any recommendation what wheel FFB global configurations to change according to your posts? (still clipping a little bit, tire force @49 and Master & SoP Scale @30 (jack spade classic) but feel like the lower I go the less I feel on the wheel?!?!?

  10. #20
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    If you want a stiffer wheel, you can move Tire Force up. If clipping occurs, you could deal with it with Soft Clippings. There's some suggested values in Jack's thread, in the first post.
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